Time  Nick         Message
00:11 Foz          anyone know how to alias items in inventories but leave items on the map alone?
00:40 Sliss        So yesterday I was looking for a mod that sucks all items around a player ot its inventory... [got disconnected then, and no not the pipeworks mod ;-)] Someone knows about this? I saw this behaviour on the 'Legends of Survival' server ...
00:47 Foz          maybe you want item_drop
00:48 Foz          I'm using that on Fozland if you want to try it
00:49 Sliss        ok having a look now
00:51 Sliss        yes, as confirmed ingame, that is what I am looking for
00:53 Foz          https://github.com/HybridDog/item_drop
00:57 Sliss        thx Foz
02:22 botch        Hello all :)
02:23 srifqi       Hello, botch !
02:56 Lone-Star    i read the name wrong and thought it said something else....with an "i". lol
03:05 botch        I'm off, Happy New Years if I don't come back before 2018 :)
03:13 FourFire     !up 5.157.7.186 53109
03:13 MinetestBot  5.157.7.186:53109 is up (56ms)
03:13 FourFire     Yee
12:03 deltasquared !mod irc
12:03 MinetestBot  deltasquared: Internet Relay Chat [irc] by kaeza - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3905
12:03 deltasquared I wonder if I could break out the SASL part... hmm
15:05 Megaf        LazyJ: Heya
15:07 LazyJ        Howdy Megaf ;)
15:59 mawaway      any 0.5 servers with users on? or does everyone use stable releases?
16:01 LazyJ        mawaway: Check the Minetest Servers List webpage:
16:01 LazyJ        http://servers.minetest.net/
16:01 LazyJ        There is a column that lists what engine version each server listed is using.
16:01 mawaway      yes. but all of the 0.5 servers are empty. that was why I was asking
16:02 LazyJ        If the users depended on pre-compiled clients, then most will be 0.4.16.
16:03 mawaway      ok. what version is the stable branch on git
16:03 LazyJ        0.4.16
16:03 mawaway      cool
16:03 mawaway      thanks
16:03 LazyJ        0.4.17 is a backport of 0.5.0 bug fixes to 0.4.16
16:04 LazyJ        yw ;)
16:04 mawaway      is 0.4.17 compatible with 0.4.16?
16:04 LazyJ        Yes.
16:04 mawaway      alright
16:04 LazyJ        The compatibility breaks with 0.5.0 (0.4.16-dev)
16:05 LazyJ        The version number method is in flux atm.
16:29 Megaf        mawaway: At times I have a .5 server running, why?
16:29 Megaf        and .5 is not released yet, that's why is empty I guess
16:29 Megaf        also, there's a lot of resistance from servers admin in pushinb .5
16:29 Megaf        Tho modders are pushing .5...
16:30 mawaway      Yeah I was just wondering.
16:30 mawaway      What's your server MEgaf?
16:30 Megaf        my .5 server is not online at this time, will come online after new year :P
16:30 mawaway      oko
16:31 Megaf        mawaway: my main server is .4 server
16:31 Megaf        LazyJ: did you push LinuxGaming to ..17 yet?
16:32 LazyJ        Nope.
16:33 LazyJ        No pushing, more like pulling it through slippering mud chained to a bicycle with bald tires. :p
16:33 Megaf        I think is worth going to .17
16:33 Megaf        just have a full backup just in case
16:33 Megaf        I managed to bring almost everything from my old 0.14 to .17, there's still come glithes to fix
16:34 LazyJ        My stuff is so intertwined that a little change in one mod can have rippling affects through other mods so updating is a very painful process.
16:35 LazyJ        That and I just don't have a head for coding.
16:35 LazyJ        So I have to re-learn everything and guess at most.
16:36 Megaf        I have missing plasticbox mod nodes, that were cut in the circular saw
16:36 Megaf        and some missing darkage mods too
16:36 Megaf        I mean, nodes
16:36 Megaf        Oh boy, 90+ seconds of lag here
16:36 mawaway      Hey do you guys know how the password auth works for servers?
16:36 mawaway      I read an issue that it uses sha-1 (which is very insecure)
16:37 LazyJ        No clue.
16:37 mawaway      I am sniffing with wireshark to see if I can reverse my password. That would be pretty bad
16:37 mawaway      crack not reverse
16:38 LazyJ        MT is not secure.
16:38 LazyJ        This past year has proven that a few times over.
16:38 mawaway      what happened? I'm new to minetest
16:38 LazyJ        Guess that means MT is getting popular enough to be worth exploiting. :/
16:40 LazyJ        There was a hole in a popular mod that allowed access to the host files.
16:40 LazyJ        The devs used it to hack servers and shut them down with a very vague message.
16:41 mawaway      oh
16:41 LazyJ        That was during the middle of the Wannacry hacks going on around the world.
16:41 mawaway      yeah
16:41 LazyJ        Bad choice made during a bad time.
16:42 Megaf        Bacj
16:42 LazyJ        As a server-op, I lost a lot of trust in the devs as a result.
16:42 Megaf        didnt even notice I had left
16:42 LazyJ        Megaf: Heh. There was a noticeable silence from the riff-raff corner so I started kvetching in your place. :0)
16:43 Megaf        :)
16:43 mawaway      Megaf: are you familiar with the source code of Minetest?
16:44 Megaf        Part of it, unfertunetaly, why?
16:44 mawaway      I was wondering if you knew how the password verification worked
16:44 LazyJ        mawaway has some concerns about the auth file's security (or lack there of).
16:44 mawaway      yeah
16:44 mawaway      I saw a github issue and am trying to see how it works
16:45 Megaf        ah, I never took MTs auth seriously
16:45 LazyJ        There's some mutterings about converting the auth file to sqlite.
16:45 Megaf        It's happening, and it's somewhat welcome
16:46 Megaf        though I like the easiness of our current system
16:46 LazyJ        One more arcane set of code gibberish I'll have to figure out.
16:46 Megaf        I can filter players and manipulate the list with a simple grep command.
16:46 LazyJ        Aye.
16:46 Megaf        Worry not, they will not just push and force us to migrate.
16:46 Megaf        Actually, if you deploy a new server maybe sqlite is already the default
16:46 LazyJ        There are times when dealing with player issues or MT gaffs that text files are quicker and easier to resolve.
16:47 Megaf        Just don't use the migrate tool, it's currently broken AFAIK
16:47 Megaf        rubenwardy: Do you know if the tool to migrate auth to sqlite has been fixed or not?
16:47 mawaway      This is the only game I know of that uses UDP instead of TCP, but I'm into security not games.
16:47 LazyJ        As usual, I'll wait for other servers to hit those headaches first.
16:49 Megaf        mawaway: UDP is awesome. Tho I don't really think MT takes a good use of UDP
16:50 Megaf        we have some many latency problem in other areas...
16:50 Megaf        UDP is not speeding up anything at all
16:50 mawaway      Yeah UDP is also insecure. No ssl or connection verification. It's probably more useful on smaller apps not games.
16:52 LazyJ        mawaway: Megaf and I are battle-weary vets of MT so our perspectives are more salted. Ask the devs for more rosy and techy responses to the current state of MT development.
16:52 LazyJ        Though Megaf is far more tech-savvy than I'll ever be.
16:53 * LazyJ      shuffles off for a fresh cup of coffee and munchies.
16:53 * Megaf      joins LazyJ and sips his latte
16:54 Megaf        like a sir
16:55 Megaf        mawaway: if you have very techy questions related to code -Dev is the place indeed
16:55 Megaf        lol
16:56 sfan5        LazyJ: who are "the devs" you spoke of earlier?
16:56 * Megaf      hides
16:59 Shara        From what i know, the attacks on servers made to "help them" were not made by the "devs" or with their general agreement.
17:00 sfan5        hence why I'm asking who he's referring to
17:16 LazyJ        sfan5, Shara: What I gather from reading the #minetest-dev archives of that period, krock/smalljoker had created an exploit script and, with what appears to be tacit consent from the other devs, used it on servers that had that particular mod installed.
17:16 sfan5        yea that sounds correct
17:17 LazyJ        My server was unaffected as I had the good sense to remove those parts of the mod when they were added, years ago.
17:18 LazyJ        I understand the urgency of the moment made the decision and actions seem justified but it was still a bad choice.
17:18 Shara        It was bad, but it was not "the devs". Just individuals being foolish.
17:18 LazyJ        A slower but more tactful alternative would have been to attempt to contact the server-ops first.
17:19 Shara        The other person involved wasn't even a dev, and was the one who did most of it from what I know (note: I don't want to drop names)
17:20 LazyJ        Another option would have been to give a much better and detailed explanation for the server hack shutdown. Not ideal but better than [paraphrased] "update X-mod now".
17:26 Krock        LazyJ, sorry but by that time I rushed too fast and didn't think about the self-patching script - which I completed later
17:26 Krock        unlike in other mods this could cause real damage on servers
17:27 shivajiva    I'm not  sure having data in a db is any harder to access than a text file on a system without an editor, install a client, say sql studio and you have far better access to the data in ways you can manipulate via sql, want to dump the players who didn't login for 6 months...simple statements
17:28 Krock        shivajiva, one could argue that sed could so similar - but of course, a database it way more suited for large data amounts than text files
17:29 whitephoenix Krock, finally finished that pr
17:29 Krock        whitephoenix, oh that's great. thank you :)
17:29 whitephoenix no problem, sorry it took so long
17:30 shivajiva    from the server owner perspective the data is useful just not when it's all in memory at once, that lends itself to a db
17:32 shivajiva    for example I have 200k of players but I want the server to use only the memory for the current players, not the whole set, that's just silly.
17:35 shivajiva    there is a cache branch for sban that stores current bans in memory for speed and draws on a db, makes more sense than holding every scrap of data, no wonder it corrupts now and again
17:37 shivajiva    we have a ban mechanism that can't even ban an offline player, this is why everyone uses a custom ban solution like xban or sban
17:39 shivajiva    sban can ban a player it's never even seen if you have the correct priv
18:47 Hijiri       ]/buffer 47
21:47 riff-IRC     Hello Taose
21:47 Taose        Hi :)
21:49 riff-IRC     How are you?
21:49 Taose        Very well thanks, yourself?
21:49 riff-IRC     Good
21:49 riff-IRC     Ripping some CDs
21:49 riff-IRC     and I know, this isn't 1998
21:49 riff-IRC     or 1999
21:50 riff-IRC     hey swift110
21:50 riff-IRC     and I also have Live PD on in the background
21:50 Taose        Tis okay, I was just playing FF7 myself
21:52 riff-IRC     on a PS1?
21:53 Taose        yup
21:53 riff-IRC     on a Sony TV?
21:53 Taose        No, never had one of those >.<;
21:54 riff-IRC     oh, so no Trinitron :|
21:54 Taose        Nope XD
21:58 riff-IRC     I have a Philips TV
23:55 Fixer        nothing bad about ripping cds
23:55 Fixer        i'm writing to dvds in 2017, because it is cheap and more robust than flash drives that can die without notice
23:57 Fixer        you can also use stuff like par to enhance data recoverability, when flash fails - it kinda suuuuuck, there is hacky ways to get data out
23:58 Fixer        if you have 1000 jpegs on your DVD, and it has few sector errors, missing just those 2 files is not a problem, on flash it will die as a whole
23:58 Fixer        if you store ISO on DVDs, har-har, you can skip damaged sectors, find original *nt, supply recovered part, and it will DL missing parts
23:59 Fixer        there is another way to do backup locally - buy a hard-drive, maybe even USB one
23:59 Fixer        dump data to it and store in safe space