Time Nick Message 14:33 Billre Does minetest have relative coordinates? 14:33 Brackston You mean to find players that are related to you? lol 14:34 Billre For example, if I code a command block for @10 10 10, it picks a node 10 blocks in all directions from itself 14:34 Billre lol Bro 14:34 deltasquared Billre: command blocks run the command as their placer 14:34 deltasquared and no, I don't think it features interpretation of relative co-ords 14:35 deltasquared a lua block of sorts (with restricted functionality, similar to mesecons luacontrollers) would be better for that sort of thing IMO 14:36 Billre I didn't know there was a lua block 14:36 Billre How do carts move? 14:37 deltasquared Billre: the lua block was a hypothetical. 14:37 deltasquared as to how carts move.. have you looked at the code? I haven't :P 14:37 deltasquared also I detect an !xyproblem but I'll wait 14:37 Billre look at code rather than ask an unprepared question? That wouldn't be very newbie of me. :D 14:38 deltasquared lel fair enough, have a cookie 14:38 Billre lol 14:39 deltasquared in all fairness though I *think* I saw something about adding velocity in the cart's on_punch method 14:39 Billre that would make sense as the more I punch it, the faster it goes 14:41 deltasquared Billre: from the looks of minetest/games/minetest/mods/carts/cart_entity.lua it simply sets it's own velocity and the engine does the rest 14:42 deltasquared might I ask *why* you're interested first in relative co-ords and then how carts move 14:55 Billre I want to move small builds in game 14:55 deltasquared Billre: so you want to move block structures around? hmm 14:56 Billre I can do that with lua controllers and command blocks but it's rather limited 14:56 Billre Essentially, I'd like to make a flying machine 14:56 deltasquared Billre: the actual code for moving a large structure around would best be done in a proper mod, say using voxelmanip 14:57 deltasquared aha, I thought it was something to do with flying machines 14:57 Billre That would take some learning ... hmmm 14:57 deltasquared many of us would like proper "voxel area entities" but it's non-trivial to do at the engine level 14:57 deltasquared essentially, an entity which represents a world chunk which isn't aligned with the rest of the world 14:57 * deltasquared looks up issue 15:02 deltasquared ... nope, can't find it 15:05 twoelk Billre, have you considered mods like Meshnodes, Airship, Flyingships or Digtron? Links may be found at the bottom of this wiki page: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Vehicles 15:07 ThomasMonroe I don't think airship works properly 15:07 ThomasMonroe but I'm not sure though 15:08 twoelk the information loss on reload problem? 15:12 Billre thanks twoelk. I'm looking at meshnode now. I have used digtron before - it doesn't h ave the issue of information loss. 15:13 deltasquared meshnodes looks cool, that basically looks like the airships mod I've used in minecraft before 15:14 Billre I sometimes fell out of the airship in MC if I was going to fast. 15:15 ThomasMonroe XD 15:15 Billre I took to flying over water so I wouldn't die and to carry a lot of soil so I could get back up to the airship 15:15 deltasquared Billre: it's like minecarts but worse when it flies off without you 15:15 deltasquared GET BACK HEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE 15:17 Billre lol 15:17 blaise nice 15:21 deltasquared it looks like it would be the kind of thing that'd benefit from APIs to make certain kinds of blocks behave sanely, say while underwater. 15:59 orbea an airship mod, I could use one of those :) 16:00 orbea the one mod I'm really missing from minecraft is the obsidion based gate mod for travelling 16:39 twoelk-in-office hmm, a wiki page that lists mods that create underground structures, biomes or other fun might be usefull 16:50 orbea lmao! 16:50 orbea oops, wrong channel... 17:26 salahzar does anyone know how I can install/use this "mod" https://github.com/arpruss/moon-mapgen-minetest being a mapgen I would expect to be able to put somewhere under a mapgen folder, but didn't find any information on the minetest site or in the readme of this. 17:28 sfan5 there's no dedicated folder for mapgen mods 17:28 sfan5 just put it into the usual folder 17:31 Brackston sfan5 when you say usual folder are you referring to game root or mod folder? 17:31 sfan5 mods/ 17:31 Brackston tthanks 17:35 salahzar ok but how it will operate, since it is a mapgen mod how can I create a world with it since mods (as far as I know) are defined at world level? 17:35 salahzar I tried to create a standard world with minetest subgame and then associate this mod 17:36 salahzar As I am trying to teach teachers how to use minetest for using it in classroom, mods like that one are quite interesting since creator did recreate moon surface :) 18:12 ZenonSeth oh salahzar left 18:12 sfan5 guess they don't want answers then 18:13 ZenonSeth or hopefully, they figured it out 18:13 ZenonSeth btw sfan5, that was your mapgen mod i was referring to, good example as i don't think there are many out there 18:20 ZenonSeth I'm sure i'm not the only one to have brought this up 18:20 ZenonSeth has anyone considered a central identification system for minetest? 18:20 ZenonSeth maybe just a public-key/username repo? 18:21 deltasquared ZenonSeth: you mean some way to point to a choosable auth server. people get upset if you suggest a "one true authentication server" 18:21 deltasquared but otherwise yes, though it'd need some way to connect to network services from mods, which itself is a security nightmare 18:21 ZenonSeth no 18:21 ZenonSeth i dont meant auth server per-se 18:22 deltasquared ... well? 18:22 ZenonSeth but a central database of public keys (aka from asymetric crypto algorithm) - which servers are free to reference to if they want 18:22 deltasquared ZenonSeth: so, PGP for minetest? :P 18:23 deltasquared if not the whole web of trust thing perhaps 18:23 ZenonSeth kinda i guess 18:23 ZenonSeth sorry what do you mean "not the whole web" ? 18:23 deltasquared ZenonSeth: "web of trust" is a GPG thing, I wouldn't worry about it 18:24 ZenonSeth you mean like the ssl certificate system where there must be a root trusted cert? 18:24 deltasquared so in a sense it's kinda taking the authentication data out of the local server and referencing it from somewhere else, with the extra addition that the remote repository only stores pubkeys and the client holds private keys (so you don't go storing passwords open on the internet) 18:25 deltasquared ZenonSeth: ... I said forget about it, it really doesn't matter. the whole GPG system is a bit overblown for this use case 18:25 ZenonSeth yes, thats how identification works in the world 18:25 deltasquared "in the world" [citation needed] but eh *shrug* 18:25 ZenonSeth uh 18:25 deltasquared ZenonSeth: the remote-ness of the pubkey repository is certainly not typical 18:25 ZenonSeth ok, it works that way in a lot of systems, ssh, gitlab, most things that require digital signing 18:26 deltasquared ZenonSeth: true, but it's usually stored locally on the server in question 18:26 deltasquared you make it sound like you could configure a server to use *another* repository of public keys 18:26 deltasquared at least that's what I got from "central" 18:26 ZenonSeth ok, but my point is if minetest devs agreed that they can have an optional system that servers could use that *could* reference to the ":official" public-key repo 18:27 ZenonSeth you could make it harder for others to pretend to be you, at least on servers that choose to use that optinal system 18:27 deltasquared ZenonSeth: meh, I'd just have it generic and have an "official" repository address. also you might have a hard time convincing them to run such a service, it's gotta be up almost all the time 18:27 deltasquared "them" being the MT devs 18:28 ZenonSeth yes and if oyou let me have food first ,i can describe to you the method of a server using another public repo 18:28 ZenonSeth the method i have in mind anyawy 18:28 deltasquared seems simple enough to me, give it a HTTP address and it downloads pubkeys that way 18:28 ZenonSeth well or git repo, but yes 18:29 ZenonSeth dont even need a service 18:29 deltasquared ZenonSeth: only possible thing with git is propogation delays, how often does it check for updates etc. 18:29 ZenonSeth why did you sound srurposed that "configure a server to use another repository of public keys" - you seem to get the idea 18:29 ZenonSeth no i mean 18:29 ZenonSeth people host webpages on git 18:29 ZenonSeth you could host a list of public keys 18:30 deltasquared ZenonSeth: I apologise if I seemed a tad confrontational, it's just that anything auth related needs poking to ensure it's well fleshed out 18:30 ZenonSeth its fine 18:31 deltasquared ZenonSeth: could be worse, it's not like you were suggesting hand-rolling crypto code or something like that, I would have gone to town then ;) 18:31 ZenonSeth im not a security expert, but i am a dev, and i've dealt with some ssh stuff at work, so that's what im basing my suggestions on 18:31 ZenonSeth the only issue would be transferring the private key if you want to log in from multiple devices 18:31 deltasquared yeah, the basic pubkey idea is sound, just a case of being able to specify how the server would obtain/look up pubkeys (as opposed to only being local files say) 18:31 ZenonSeth so here's what i'm thinking: 18:33 deltasquared ZenonSeth: eh, transferring privkeys is a categorically hard problem anyway, that's the user's problem to arrange 18:33 deltasquared though, allowing minetest clients to access them in a secure manner poses an interesting problem 18:34 ZenonSeth minetest generates private/public key pair (good, free public libs exist). You have some way to upload your public key and username combination, possibly with forum-related info since forums are official - so the "official" git repo gets an addition of your username/public key 18:34 deltasquared ZenonSeth: those are details of getting the pubkeys onto the server, the devs won't care about that 18:35 deltasquared they'll only care how to retrieve them once they're present 18:35 ZenonSeth the server has a reference and optional flag to reference that repo, and check against it - if its on, when someone logs in, the server does the usual "sign this unique data for me", client encrypts unique data with private key, server trries to decrypt with well known public key for your username - if it fails, its not you 18:36 deltasquared details of a registration mechanism can be worked out later, and indeed the authentication "backend" in minetest as it were can be tested without any "official" registration mechanism, it can be worked out later. 18:36 ZenonSeth the unique data is usually some known string + timestamp, to ensure no one can re-use that encrypted package 18:36 ZenonSeth well, true 18:37 ZenonSeth registration mechanism still needs to be ok though, but yea 18:37 ZenonSeth its more of a problem that if you make registration entirely public, its open to spamming 18:38 ZenonSeth anyway, the rest of it is fairly straight forward 18:38 deltasquared ZenonSeth: that bit about encrypting/decrypting data IIRC is not actually how you prove you have the key, so I wouldn't think too much about that either without at least consulting existing libraries out there 18:38 deltasquared I get the general approach you're trying to come up with though 18:38 deltasquared it would just need handling very carefully 18:39 ZenonSeth why is not how you prove? 18:39 ZenonSeth that is how digital signing works 18:39 deltasquared ZenonSeth: well I might not know the details about it but I would suspect you might not be 100% on the theory either, so again just don't worry about the details of it 18:40 ZenonSeth deltasquared: so you can't tell me why, you just think its wrong, and even if its wrong i shouldn't worry about it? 18:40 deltasquared with crypto, if in doubt, you're probably wrong. you might be right, I just haven't looked into this area myself 18:40 ZenonSeth ok 18:40 deltasquared I just trust ssh keys to work for instance, it's magic to me :P 18:40 ZenonSeth i don't think this conversation is going productive 18:41 ZenonSeth it's not magic 18:41 deltasquared ZenonSeth: it needs someone with knowledge on the issues for instance 18:41 deltasquared ZenonSeth: magic was half joking 18:41 deltasquared I am partly aware of the maths and concepts involved, but I couldn't prove it's soundness for instance. 18:53 salahzar regarding https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13370 Can the author or any other assist me in understanding how to make it work this mod (?) with 0.4.16? I unsuccessfully tried but had big problems in having it working :( Can you please teach me how should I install it and the steps to be able to run the mapgen correctly and to experience it? I need to make a demo to some teachers as a very interesting way to teach moo 18:53 sfan5 try not leaving before having your answer 18:54 sfan5 you will need to install it as a new mod, create a new world (DON'T JOIN), enable the mod and only then join the world 19:01 sofar you can always enable it and remove your generated map (map.sqlite) after to force re-generation 19:01 ZenonSeth he left again right before you answered sofar 19:02 sofar it's fine 19:02 ZenonSeth he's on web, probably just closing the window.. 19:05 ZenonSeth is there an approach you guys would recommend for someone to get familiar with the c++ code? 19:05 Dargod How do I make it so that the function minetest.register_on_chat_message(function(name, message) can handle Unicode? 19:06 sfan5 it can do that by default 19:07 Krock Lua doesn't know about encoding, so nothing to do there. 19:08 Krock ZenonSeth, timing out does not mean they're on the web. It indicates that the connection was lost and not terminated correctly 19:08 ZenonSeth uh i was going by their login being "gateway/web/freenode" 19:10 Dargod hmm, instead 19:30 Dargod I duno why, but Unicode symbols not supporting