Time  Nick           Message
00:29 Anonyma        Hijiri, Thanks, I'll definitely look into it. I'm heading off to bed now
01:19 STHGOM         I wonder if I put "NO RULES!!!" in my server title, ill get more players...
03:01 nolsen         my supply converter is reporting "No network" but obviously, it does, any ideas why?
03:02 nolsen         0 HV -> 0 HV, now it's not working.
03:06 nolsen         Channel died apparently.
03:09 nolsen         Hello?
03:18 nolsen         Why does this channel become dead at the strangest times ._.
04:15 segfault22     Hello everyone
04:16 segfault22     I need an archived copy of the 0gb_us Land Claim mod, the version independent of 0gb.us_game - the integrated landclaim_0gb_us in 0gb.us_game depends on the points_0gb_us mod, which may interfere with my resources-mod or cause it to be difficult to use (it overrides defined ores)
04:16 segfault22     does anyone have it?
04:24 segfault22     the ling to 0gb.us website is dead, so we can't download the mod from there
04:26 segfault22     0gb.us domain is for sale
04:26 segfault22     where did 0gb.us go?
04:26 segfault22     welcome back
04:29 segfault22     does anyone have the latest version of the 0gb_us land claim mod independent of 0gb.us_game?
04:31 swift110-phone nope
04:31 segfault22     I really need it
04:34 segfault22     I can't use the version in 0gb.us_game also because it replaces the claim block with a chat command
04:34 swift110-phone oh
04:35 segfault22     It is not better than the old version, because it depends on points_0gb_us which messes up my resources-mod and it isn't reasonable to modify the landclaim_0gb_us integrated mod to work without it
04:36 segfault22     Surely there is someone who downloaded the independent version of 0gb_us Land Claim and could upload it to 4shared or something
04:39 segfault22     too bad 0gb.us is gone...
04:40 segfault22     I'm glad there are so many new servers
04:40 segfault22     but it's too bad 0gb.us is gone, because I could have went there and asked for the old mod...
04:41 segfault22     chances are dude probably deleted all of those old files with the server itself, and completely abandoned minetest forever. Oh well.
04:41 segfault22     I guess I'll just have to postpone making my server until I can find the mod
04:42 segfault22     maybe I should make a topic on the forum asking if anyone has it
04:44 swift110-phone oh how long you been playing the game?
04:47 segfault22     a few years
04:48 segfault22     What are the chances that someone would have a copy of the original 0gb_us Land Claim mod?
04:49 segfault22     !server 0gb.us
04:49 MinetestBot    segfault22: No results
04:52 segfault22     Maybe I should go visit random servers and ask the people if anyone has a copy of 0gb_us Land Claim
04:54 DI3HARD139     found it
04:54 DI3HARD139     https://github.com/0gb-us/0gb.us_game/tree/temp_bans/0gb.us_game/mods/landclaim_0gb_us
04:55 DI3HARD139     @segfault22^
04:55 segfault22     sorry, depends.txt:points_0gb_us - this is the one I would have to modify in order to use it... but it is very close
04:55 * DI3HARD139   continues digging for old archives of the game
04:55 segfault22     thank you
04:58 segfault22     All of the versions on github depend on points_0gb_us even from the initial commit
05:00 DI3HARD139     Is it the points_0gb_us thats missing or is an updated version thats required?
05:03 segfault22     I can not use points_0gb_us because it interferes with my resources-mod (it overrides all registered ores), and I would have to heavily modify it in order for it to work as I need it to. It would be easier to just use a copy of the original 0gb_us mod, which was on the site 0gb.us which no longer exists...
05:03 segfault22     er, I wouldn't modify points_0gb_us at all, I would modify landclaim_0gb_us to be independent and use a land claim block instead of a chat command, or make it work with a currency mod instead of the points mod
05:04 segfault22     either way it would have to be modified, and that would be more difficult and time consuming than downloading an archived copy of the original mod, if any exists at all...
05:05 segfault22     0gb.us should have realized the work on that mod was important, because no other mod implements a claim system perfectly aligned with the world chunk system on all 6 sides (perfect 16^3 cubes)
05:12 swift110-phone thats cool
05:15 segfault22     I'm running out of options for finding if anyone has a copy of the mod,.. so I'm going to go ask on the servers with people online, and see if anyone has a copy. Since this is not likely to be effective at all, I have refrained from doing this until now.
05:16 segfault22     If someone on this IRC is searching for the mod, thank you, and please don't stop yet because I probably won't get anything from the people on servers
05:20 segfault22     I just tried to visit the server @test@ and it crashed
05:20 segfault22     !server 87.101.8.185
05:20 MinetestBot    segfault22: No results
05:20 segfault22     !87.101.8.185
05:21 segfault22     !server just test
05:21 MinetestBot    segfault22: No results
05:21 segfault22     it's crashing my client...
05:21 segfault22     the server is still up
05:23 DI3HARD139     Question. How long has the main website been down. Anyone know?
05:24 DI3HARD139     Or was it more a reservation for the domain use only?
05:28 segfault22     probably a reservation
05:32 DI3HARD139     def not in his/her gitorious repo
05:35 DI3HARD139     that or they didn't mirror all the files
05:40 segfault22     I'm sorry, you don't have to search if you don't want to... maybe it's better to just modify landclaim_0gb_us to what I need...
05:41 segfault22     I'm probably the only person with this abnormal request anyways, who else would need a true chunk protection mod
05:42 DI3HARD139     I have spotted a few posts involving "just test". Are they related in any way?
05:45 segfault22     I'm not sure
06:05 segfault22     I am finding some copies of the 0gb.us pages on archive sites, but none of them have copies of any separate files at the website
06:05 segfault22     they only store the pages
06:05 DI3HARD139     yep. Im waiting for Windows to finish searching for any files tied to 0g.us
06:06 DI3HARD139     Maybe I have a hidden file somewhere
06:06 segfault22     Thank you
06:08 segfault22     none of the server-kiddies (in the game) respond when I ask anything, much less if it's about some mod that isn't on the internet any more
06:09 segfault22     they say "once you put it up on the internet it's there forever" but that is not true.
06:09 segfault22     they, as in the people who say don't put your personal files on the internet.
06:09 swift110-phone lol
06:10 DI3HARD139     Would you happen to have the ip address to the server?
06:10 segfault22     no, I don't...
06:11 segfault22     I regret downloading it when it was available in the past, but I didn't know about it
06:11 segfault22     regret not
06:11 DI3HARD139     damn. That would've made things easy. assuming the webserver portion is still active
06:16 segfault22     Too bad the IP address sites on the internet don't record the actual IP address of websites, and just get the IP address of the domain name host
06:16 DI3HARD139     ikr
06:20 DI3HARD139     tbh I like the original MT layout better
06:21 DI3HARD139     for the forums anyways
06:24 DI3HARD139     The only thing I see being viable is porting over the dependencies to the other mods u were gonna use.
06:28 segfault22     I will probably just have to modify the landclaim_0gb_us mod anyways, which would be better in the end because I can customize it more and it is more updated (there may be less problems in the "nitty-gritty" part of the code) and I can make it work with a currency mod or whatever other method of costing the player some resource in order to claim areas...
06:42 DI3HARD139     heading off for the night. cya
07:39 swift110-phone ok
08:00 namach         morning all :)
08:00 namach         is minetest as a software product limited to how much system resources it can use?
08:05 sfan5          namach: obviously yes
08:06 namach         sfan5: so if i have a minetest server hosted on a machine with 16 Gb RAM, the game will not utilize them all?
08:07 sfan5          oh i took your question the other way
08:07 sfan5          minetest will use as much as it needs
08:07 sfan5          but it doesn't need 16 GB of ram
08:11 namach         sfan5: it was just an example. So if i use the most powerfull machine ever build the minetest server will support 9999999 quarries running at the same time and bunch of other complex game functions with no lag and issues
08:11 namach         and wit 999999 players online? :)
08:12 sfan5          theoretically yes
08:13 Hijiri         minetest is webscale
08:15 shamoanjac     does it support running on a cluster tho
08:15 shamoanjac     distributed minetest
08:15 namach         what does it mean "webscale" (sorry for the noob Q) :)
08:16 shamoanjac     it scales upppppppppppppp!
08:16 namach         i can interpret this in million ways
08:17 namach         my issue was that a guy (a moderator in a server) just told me "minetest software architecture has a limit on the system resource it can use", therefor it is impossible to create a server with bunch of mods and users without lag
08:18 sfan5          namach: what he probably meant is that minetest does not utilize multi-threading well
08:21 namach         i guess this means performing multiple tasks at the same time?
08:22 namach         (sorry, i am not into programming, but i am mega curious)
08:22 shamoanjac     multiple threads, yes
08:23 namach         what he told me makes a lot of sense now :) thank you both :)
08:49 JamesTait      Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Pluto Demoted Day! 😃 ♇
09:44 swift110-phone lol
10:18 Megaf          This is cool https://github.com/drac/Material-Design-Color-Palette-for-Inkscape
10:18 Megaf          Calinou: ^
10:21 Megaf          oh, cool, I can just drag and drop a color from the pallete to the object I wat to color on Inkscape
10:21 Megaf          that's cool
10:35 Calinou        this is great
11:32 Jordach        Megaf, neat
11:38 Megaf          :)
11:38 Megaf          Just made my custom Debian wallpaper with the palette
11:40 Jordach        Megaf, meanwhile i've just dealt with life
11:41 Jordach        and VE is going to drive me mad with curves in a cube game
11:48 Megaf          Jordach: My life sycks at the moment, in real life I am streesed, disolated and terrified. I rather isolate myself in some art, internet and minetest
11:48 Megaf          life sucks
11:48 Jordach        Megaf, at least your not as angry as i am when it comes to blender's cycles
11:49 Megaf          lol
11:49 Megaf          At the moment I'm angry at license stuff
11:49 Megaf          I want to publish some photographic work. Not sure if I use this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/ or this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
11:50 Jordach        nc, you might thank me later when someone nicks it
11:50 Jordach        i've seen it way too many times now
11:51 Jordach        Megaf, this is the noise issue specifically related to Polaris; http://i.imgur.com/sB2voR5.png
11:51 Megaf          Gonna use this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/
11:51 * Megaf        now opens Jordachs link
11:52 Megaf          Jordach: that GPU is supposed to work great on Linux
11:52 Jordach        Megaf, ikr, it's a launch day card
11:52 Jordach        i literally got the last one
11:54 Jordach        it also killed my old mobo
11:54 Jordach        pci-e socket was already fried from a 770
11:56 Jordach        Megaf, http://i.imgur.com/eYTwxRr.jpg :D
11:56 Megaf          I wonder if I can change the background color of a layer on inkscape
11:56 Megaf          beautiful card man
11:57 Jordach        it's the 8GB model
11:57 Jordach        rendering won't run out of memory ever :D
11:57 Megaf          heh, it might
11:57 Megaf          just add too many threads
11:57 Jordach        in like 6 years
11:57 Jordach        most apps still don't need more than 4g
11:58 Calinou        <Megaf> I want to publish some photographic work. Not sure if I use this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/ or this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
11:58 Calinou        use neither
11:58 Calinou        use CC0, CC BY, CC BY-SA
11:59 Calinou        CC-NC/ND don't deserve any users
11:59 Calinou        (even Creative Commons is starting to think so)
11:59 Jordach        Megaf, i need 32^2 samples just to remove said noise; http://i.imgur.com/UMh8zDZ.png
12:00 Megaf          Calinou: I will use this https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/
12:00 Calinou        I saw, but well
12:00 Calinou        it's a stupid choice IMO
12:00 Megaf          why?
12:00 Calinou        we don't need more proprietary culture, we need more free culture :)
12:00 Megaf          can you give me the link to a good choice?
12:01 Megaf          ok, hold on
12:01 Jordach        Calinou, seen way too many companies stealing art without proper credit and or licensing
12:01 Calinou        https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
12:01 Calinou        something like that
12:01 Jordach        even with CC-BY
12:01 Calinou        Jordach: CC BY-SA prevents exactly that
12:01 Calinou        if they don't give attribution, you can take legal action
12:01 Megaf          Calinou: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/
12:01 Megaf          this?
12:01 Calinou        no, it has the same problem as the BY-NC license
12:27 Markow         I see you! 👀
12:36 Jordach        emojis in IRC
12:36 Jordach        get out
12:37 rubenwardy     😂
12:39 Jordach        no
12:39 Jordach        just, no
12:40 * Megaf        can't see emojis, thankfully
12:40 rubenwardy     the font is really ugly
12:40 Markow         ;)
12:40 Jordach        http://i.imgur.com/aqtiGIp.gif
12:41 Markow         I think they're pretty cool for IRC
12:41 Jordach        NO
12:42 rubenwardy     my IRC has quite a small line height, which makes it nice and compact
12:42 rubenwardy     unicode emojis don't look good :(
12:47 Calinou        😂_😂
12:47 Calinou        happy glasses
12:47 Jordach        >has windows 10 pro
12:47 Jordach        >can see emoji anywhere
12:47 Calinou        >doesn't have Windows 10 Enterprise
12:47 Jordach        >TFW not AU due to blacklisting at the asus router
12:48 Jordach        plus some crazy level brain removal
12:49 Jordach        cortana has 0 function at ths point; http://i.imgur.com/nAYV6lk.png
12:53 Megaf          Windows problems..
12:53 Megaf          And Ubuntu too
12:53 Megaf          both are the same thing
12:54 Jordach        i've even gone as far as to almost nuke all default apps
12:55 Megaf          It would be great if Linus was just as intuitive to use as Windows, wouldnt t?
12:55 Megaf          With a control panel like the windows has
12:55 Jordach        the issue i've seen so far is, that choice stalls user adoption
12:55 Jordach        "which DE", "which distro"
12:57 Jordach        if i had the choice of any unix-like system, i'd end up with a mac on one rule; it has software support from primary developers
12:58 Calinou        Megaf: that's called KDE I think :P
12:58 Megaf          nope
12:59 Calinou        Jordach: MacBook Pros are obscenely priced here, they start at €2,250
12:59 Megaf          you can't partition your disks, add uses, change deep system settings on KDE
12:59 Calinou        for a system that has no dedicated graphics :p
12:59 Dolus          The different desktops don't really make much difference though. They can all run the same applications.
13:00 Jordach        Calinou, i was potentially referring to either VM based or hackintosh
13:00 Megaf          Calinou: wrong. http://www.apple.com/fr/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro
13:00 Megaf          1449
13:00 Megaf          same price for Ireland
13:01 Calinou        talking about 15" obviously
13:01 Calinou        forgot to mention it
13:01 Calinou        the 13" is much more decently priced, still high
13:01 Megaf          and for dedicated graphics is 2 799,00 €
13:01 Jordach        even an air would suffice for me
13:01 Megaf          same macbook pro is €2,849.00   in IReland
13:01 Megaf          be happy Calinou
13:02 Megaf          you are less fucked than the Irish
13:02 Calinou        anyway my next laptop might be a ThinkPad or something
13:02 Calinou        some kind of enterprise-grade laptop
13:02 Calinou        so, no dedicated graphics anyway
13:03 rubenwardy     Windows? Intuitive? No
13:03 rubenwardy     I hate the windows control panel, especially on windows 10
13:04 rubenwardy     What Linux needs is a clippy
13:04 rubenwardy     to act as tech support
13:04 Megaf          Why the heck would anyone buy an Apple when we have this for almost half the price!? http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/
13:04 Megaf          Calinou: Jordach ^
13:05 Megaf          Calinou: Jordach: that's what we need
13:05 Jordach        Megaf, the thing is, apple only uses chips that literally are identical, no binned ones or similar
13:05 Megaf          Memory
13:05 Megaf          4 SODIMM Slots, 64 GB Max., 2133 MHz
13:05 Jordach        i wouldn't say repair is easy, but if it was serviceable
13:05 Jordach        it might be alright
13:05 Calinou        the T460s is not available in France
13:05 Calinou        it's the best business notebook according to Notebookcheck
13:05 Jordach        Megaf, superfish
13:05 Jordach        end of :)
13:06 Jordach        rubenwardy, i don't think so
13:06 Jordach        http://i.imgur.com/UXVwI9n.png
13:06 Calinou        "€5,749.99" lol
13:06 rubenwardy     I used W10 for a few months, was awful, so many problems
13:07 Jordach        rubenwardy, this is why i'm not using AU i like my OS with my GPO
13:08 rubenwardy     AU? GPO?
13:08 rubenwardy     !g gpo
13:08 MinetestBot    rubenwardy: Problem getting data from Google.
13:08 rubenwardy     !b gpo
13:08 Jordach        Anniversary Update removes Group Policy Editor from chrome
13:08 Jordach        s/chrome/W10 Pro
13:08 Jordach        blegh
13:08 sfan5          rubenwardy: please fix the google module for me :>
13:08 rubenwardy     sounds like pain
13:09 Jordach        the GPO turns off all of the telemetry data
13:09 Calinou        http://shop.lenovo.com/fr/fr/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/
13:09 Calinou        there's this, but only 8 GB of RAM
13:09 Calinou        which will surely be limiting in the long term
13:09 sfan5          can't you upgrade ram?
13:10 Calinou        apparently no, but not sure
13:10 Calinou        if it's DDR3 and only 1 slot, no
13:10 Calinou        (or only in a very expensive manner)
13:10 Calinou        DDR3 16 GB sticks don't exist really
13:19 alkotob_       Anyone interested in brainstorming?
13:20 alkotob_       I'm trying to plan a mod feature
13:20 alkotob_       specifically,
13:20 alkotob_       I want to make nature aggressive
13:20 alkotob_       so occasionally you have to fix your broken walls
13:21 alkotob_       after storms
13:21 alkotob_       and if a plot isn't maintained for a while,
13:21 alkotob_       it could be leveled to the ground
13:23 alkotob_       But how can I detect which blocks are natural?
13:23 sfan5          someone needs to manually work that out
13:23 alkotob_       I'm thinking check the biome or something
13:24 sfan5          what would that help with?
13:24 alkotob_       yeah you're right
13:24 alkotob_       Anyway I think this can help immensely on servers,
13:24 alkotob_       since there won't be any ghost towns
13:25 alkotob_       Nature just reclaims land when players leave
13:25 alkotob_       and the civilized world shrinks
13:25 alkotob_       So it feels cozy again
13:26 alkotob_       What do you think?
13:26 segfault22     I still couldn't find a copy of the original 0gb_us Land Claim mod,.. is it just gone forever? :'C` ` `
13:27 alkotob_       Isn't Areas + Markers enough?
13:27 segfault22     they say "derp once you put it on the internet its there forever derp" but that's apparently a lie.
13:28 alkotob_       Wait I've seen the Land Claim one recently
13:28 segfault22     any areas mod is not enough. For my purposes, I need all areas to be exact 16^3 cbes aligned with the world chunk system
13:28 alkotob_       You get a wan right?
13:28 alkotob_       wand*
13:28 segfault22     that's a different one - the original 0gb_us mod uses claim-blocks
13:28 alkotob_       Ah sorry then
13:28 segfault22     it's okay
13:29 alkotob_       Anyway what do you think of an aggressive nature mod?
13:29 alkotob_       Reclaiming plots back to nature
13:29 alkotob_       Slowly
13:30 alkotob_       Or there could be a small monthly rent, and the house collapses if someone abandons it
13:30 alkotob_       The problem is how to make it collapse :P
13:31 segfault22     It would be nice as long as there is some way for the player to maintain their plot ownership without having to specifically visit each one; like a power-level system where the plot is "charged up" to a non-zero level, which is degraded over time, and you increase the level by converting matter to energy in some sinful ritual-machine
13:31 alkotob_       Sure sure
13:31 alkotob_       I was thinking a mere monetary fee using a money mod
13:32 segfault22     That would be effective
13:32 alkotob_       Claimed nodes are grouped into Plots so each would have separate rent
13:32 alkotob_       I think that could be done with areas
13:33 alkotob_       Actually I believe it has rent now
13:33 alkotob_       If I can convert ownership into a "Contract" item then it'll be tradeable
13:33 alkotob_       So it can be used with the Exchange Box mod
13:33 segfault22     it can, most areas mods have an API allowing other mods to claim/remove/modify areas without players executing a command or placing a block or whacking the ground with a magic stick
13:34 alkotob_       So yeah all I need at this point is a tradeable Contrac
13:34 alkotob_       and
13:34 alkotob_       a mod to flatten plots when abandoned
13:34 alkotob_       I think it'll just replace everything with air
13:34 alkotob_       maybe fill big holes with biome-friendly nodes
13:35 alkotob_       i.e. dirt or sand
13:35 alkotob_       or whatever
13:35 Jordach        alternatively replace the air with "decay air"
13:35 alkotob_       ?
13:35 Jordach        any nodes that are manufactured beside it slowly decay through an abm
13:35 alkotob_       abm?
13:35 Jordach        active block modifier
13:36 Jordach        once you've claimed an area, the "decay air" allows you to fine tune block decay over time
13:36 alkotob_       *All* air?
13:37 alkotob_       Or just air inside claimed areas
13:37 Jordach        all the air inside claimed areas
13:37 Jordach        that way, nobody notices the change
13:37 segfault22     Maybe there could be a chat-command the owner uses, when in their plot, that gives them a "deed" item, and they can give it to another player, who can then use it in the plot to transfer ownership. The item would need a metadata field for "expiration date", so if the player never claims the plot with the deed, the old one becomes invalid and the original owner can make another one
13:37 Jordach        however, i think people would just abuse the fact that not using a claim to save time
13:37 alkotob_       What if someone claims the land after building the house?
13:37 Jordach        and their build
13:37 alkotob_       Ah nvm I see
13:38 alkotob_       Very nice
13:38 alkotob_       It'll be a slow collapse
13:38 alkotob_       but still the end result would be an empty cube
13:39 alkotob_       I think after all the plot becomes decayed air
13:39 alkotob_       The decayed air will turn to the blocks nearest to it
13:39 alkotob_       So the top becomes normal air again
13:39 alkotob_       And the ones near the ground will become stone/sand/dirt
13:39 alkotob_       It'll fill up beautifully to look like wilderness
13:41 alkotob_       When there's no more decayed air, the plot ownership is revoked, maybe.
13:42 alkotob_       Perhaps any placed block would turn air around it to decay
13:42 alkotob_       Regardless of ownership
13:43 alkotob_       Ownership just sets the boundary quicker
13:44 rubenwardy     !title https://github.com/stujones11/minetest-npcf/pull/3
13:44 MinetestBot    rubenwardy: [WIP] Add state machine support by rubenwardy · Pull Request #3 · stujones11/minetest-npcf · GitHub
13:44 segfault22     maybe you could use some method to determine what nodes should be in the plot area at the moment it was created by worldgen, and slowly convert it back to that. For a more cool decay effect, blocks could turn into a "decaying" variant, growing moss and degrading into weaker blocks, until the last node in the decay-chain (sand or dirt, depending on if the node is stone-like or organic/wood) turns into air
13:45 segfault22     only problem is, the worldgen-trees would have to be excluded or replaced with saplings, because otherwise they would be regenerated randomly and it would look weird (floating leaves/trunk-blocks slowly filling up the shape of a tree at random)
13:46 alkotob_       Yeah that could be done through checking the biomes
13:46 segfault22     Also, ores would have to be excluded so that it doesn't become a source of infinite ores
13:46 alkotob_       Sure
13:46 alkotob_       It doesn't have to become perfect again
13:46 segfault22     right
13:46 alkotob_       I just dont want a big gaping hole
13:46 segfault22     of course
13:46 alkotob_       So all dirt/sand/whatever should be fine
13:47 alkotob_       I think I'll start with replacing air with Decay Air around all placed blocks
13:47 alkotob_       inb4 performance drops
13:47 segfault22     so would the area decay while it is owned by a player, or would it decay after ownership expires?
13:48 alkotob_       Well if he's paying rent I don't think it'll decay
13:48 alkotob_       It'll be annoying for really big creation
13:49 alkotob_       This just for abandoned houses
13:49 alkotob_       maybe for factions, too.
13:49 alkotob_       i.e. If they claim land it'll still decay if they don't pay rent.
13:50 alkotob_       Even if enemies can't steal it from them.
13:50 alkotob_       The point of this mod is basically:
13:50 alkotob_       I don't want servers to have ghost towns.
13:50 alkotob_       If you can avoid ghost towns,
13:51 alkotob_       servers can survive any amount of player loss.
13:51 segfault22     That's an interesting concept
13:51 nosrick        Hello all!
13:52 alkotob_       Aloha
13:52 segfault22     welcome :D
13:52 segfault22     I have built towns on many servers, and regrettably got bored with the game and left to go work on a "revolutionary new mod" or some other project which usually doesn't get finished...
13:53 segfault22     I know most of the players either also don't come to the server, or they don't appreciate what I have done and they left my town; either way, I would not feel right trying to go back there now, as I let-down everyone..
13:54 alkotob_       Well games are about change
13:54 alkotob_       They're not graveyards
13:54 alkotob_       It should always be about who wants to play NOW
13:54 alkotob_       Especially since I believe servers should have a small central NPC town around spawn
13:55 alkotob_       So the plots around it would Claimed land
13:55 alkotob_       and if players leave it'll shrink to a small town again
13:58 lumidify       Hi, is there any way to update the infotext of an entity? If I change the infotext of an entity later on, it doesn't get updated, but I can't find any function to call to update it.
13:58 alkotob_       I think the entities are registered at worldgen
13:58 alkotob_       I could be mistaken
13:58 alkotob_       Have you tried creating a new world?
13:59 lumidify       Let me see...
14:03 lumidify       I tried it in many worlds, and my custom infotext won't update. The hp in the F5 debug info also won't update, so I have absolutely no idea what's wrong. I'm playing the Lord of the Test subgame.
14:06 lumidify       Hmm, the problem seems to only be in LOTT, but I don't see what could be causing it.
14:07 alkotob_       Maybe LOTT overrides this entity?
14:08 lumidify       It's with all entities, including the LOTT ones, I even asked Amaz (a developer of LOTT), and s/he doesn't seem to know either :(
14:08 segfault22     Would it be reasonable to reserve certain keys to be given a function, where if the key is pressed and a weapon used, it is sed in adifferent attack mode? like one key when using a sword causes it to be swung from up to down (dealing more impact "type" damage), another causes it to be used in stabbing mode to deal piercing damage
14:08 segfault22     used
14:08 segfault22     my U key is failing'
14:09 alkotob_       Yes segfault is should be possible
14:09 alkotob_       it*
14:10 alkotob_       I'll look at the API and see if there's a "on_press" function
14:11 alkotob_       At that point it's a simple toggle code: if(pressed): mode = bla bla; if(releeased): mode = bla bla;
14:14 segfault22     cool
14:17 lumidify       Actually, I just realized that it doesn't work wherever mobs redo is used, so there must be something in there that's preventing updating the infotext.
14:17 segfault22     I figure the Z and X keys could be used, as long as they aren't already bound to some other function; they are near the WASD keys, which makes it easier to press them quickly than if they are halfway across the keyboard from the WASD keys. However, since some people use the arrow keys, this would be more difficult and possibly requiring the keys to be remapped to other ones that are near the arrow keys, or get a special mini-keyboard with just the o
14:17 segfault22     nes you need placed in an ergonomic orientation around the arrow keys
14:17 * lumidify     goes to read api.lua from mobs redo
14:19 agaran         good afternoon
14:36 rubenwardy     Fuck you lua
14:36 rubenwardy     !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
14:37 rubenwardy     why do you have to be so hipster
14:37 rubenwardy     After coming from ES6, I'm finding Lua painful
14:40 segfault22     what did it do
14:41 nolsen         Heh, nobody even responded to my messages last night.
14:47 Jordach        rubenwardy, roasted :D
14:49 segfault22     Windows pulls itself up by its own bootstraps. MacOS pulls itself up by sniffing glue and getting high. Linux pulls itself up with reactionless antigravity ether-drive
14:49 segfault22     so linux is faster on anything
14:50 segfault22     (the term "booting" comes from a phrase "to pull oneself up by one's own bootstraps")
14:51 Jordach        segfault22, W10 hasn't been bad for me yet
14:51 segfault22     Yeah but it's got a builtin NSA backdoor, who really wants that
14:52 Jordach        and? so does every website, web service etc
14:52 Jordach        i enjoy having privacy yes, but when eyes are covered from surface the surface
14:53 Jordach        you can't avoid it
14:53 Jordach        and remember, signal to noise
14:53 Jordach        4 billion machines create too much to sort through, increasing in size
14:53 IhrFussel      Can someone tell me how to read the new profiler results? Should I look at average times and the highest there is likely a problem?
14:54 agaran         rubenwardy: ES6?
14:55 rubenwardy     It's a version of javascript
14:55 segfault22     You can use quantum computing to sort through much more information than that, effectively and quickly. We only get to know about new technology being "in development" once the government already had been using it for a while, that way it isn't a threat to them.
14:55 rubenwardy     adds nicer syntaxes like classes and inheritence
14:56 agaran         rubenwardy: heh.. knowing -our- webdevs... I'd better like if they stay on html3.0..
14:56 agaran         but thats unfortunatelly not possible..
14:56 rubenwardy     Javascript isn't just a web thing
14:56 agaran         well I know harm it does for web stuff..
14:56 rubenwardy     that's mostly due to namespacing
14:56 agaran         cant design it properly, toss more .js crufts to fix it..
14:57 agaran         rinse&repeat
14:57 segfault22     it's not that people are kept from developing new technology and releasing it to the public as soon as it is ready; they just don't know about the idea before it is already being implemented in secret
14:57 rubenwardy     people will do things badly no matter what language or technology you use
14:57 agaran         rubenwardy: yep.. but JS is quite well visible with that.. but I agree lua could be better
15:01 rubenwardy     my point is that it's not the language that causes problems
15:01 rubenwardy     but how it's implemented and how it's used
15:01 IhrFussel      How high must an average value be in profiler results to be considered "too long" ? I have one function that takes 247,044
15:02 rubenwardy     implemented: no namespaces by default in browsers
15:02 rubenwardy     used: badly, including megabytes of a library to animate a logo
15:03 segfault22     Is there any way t get around the ~31,000 node limit? I read that some C++ number values are limited to a fixed-width space, but surely there's a way to get around that by like using two or more spaces and glue-ing them together at the ends to make a higher number?
15:03 agaran         rubenwardy: believe me -I-know-it-badly... I work as QA..
15:04 agaran         segfault22: well, knowing that you have 3 dimensional space 2^15^3 is quite PLENTY of brick space
15:05 agaran         but computers have very little problems with numbers, just you will run out of ram..
15:06 IhrFussel      agaran, seems like the highest value is a on_joinplayer() function
15:06 agaran         hmm so all initialization..
15:07 shamoanjac     segfault22, past 500,000 blocks, inaccuracy in floats start to have noticeable effects in Minecraft, so I guess it'd be the same in Minetest
15:08 IhrFussel      agaran, 2nd highest is /add_owner o.o
15:09 segfault22     I thought node coordinate numbers were stored as integers
15:09 rubenwardy     what mod are you using? Protection mods are slow if they don't use area stores
15:10 IhrFussel      rubenwardy, me? I use areas mod
15:10 rubenwardy     as you'd have to iterate through a massive list of area bounds to find one that collides
15:10 rubenwardy     !mod areas
15:10 MinetestBot    rubenwardy: Advanced area protection [areas] by ShadowNinja - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7239
15:10 segfault22     !mod 0gb_us
15:10 MinetestBot    segfault22: More Chests [chests_0gb_us] by 0gb.us - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4366
15:10 rubenwardy     looks like it does use area store, IhrFussel, providing you have the latest version
15:11 segfault22     no no no I was talking about Land Claim 0gb_us
15:11 rubenwardy     if you are running a server, then you should compile it was a faster area store, such as libspatial
15:11 segfault22     !mod landclaim_0gb_us
15:11 MinetestBot    segfault22: Could not find anything.
15:11 segfault22     (wrong because it's part of 0gb.usgame, but close)
15:11 rubenwardy     http://krock-works.16mb.com/MTstuff/modSearch.php?st=0&at=0&q=0gb_us
15:12 rubenwardy     segfault22 ^
15:12 rubenwardy     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3679
15:12 IhrFussel      is µs micro seconds? so 247,000 is 247 ms?
15:12 segfault22     The files are gone, though
15:12 segfault22     it's just a useless list entry if we can't download the mod
15:13 Jordach        https://github.com/0gb-us/0gb.us_game/tree/master/0gb.us_game/mods/landclaim_0gb_us
15:13 Jordach        still there
15:13 shamoanjac     just use factions :^)
15:13 shamoanjac     no custom areas though
15:13 shamoanjac     only parcels
15:13 segfault22     That one is not Land Claim [0.7.1] [0gb_us] because 1. it is a different name and 2. it depends on points_0gb_us
15:14 segfault22     "still there" like http://0gb.us/minetest/download.php?plugin=0gb_us-0.7.1
15:14 IhrFussel      Umm...wow so my on_joinplayer() function takes 247 ms to finish..WHAT THE....
15:15 segfault22     "Buy This Domain", "Related Links", "Search Ads", no 0gb_us 0.7.1
15:15 Jordach        GOOD NEWS
15:15 Jordach        http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://0gb.us/minetest/*
15:15 Jordach        well, it should work
15:17 segfault22     I clicked the link and it says "Hrm. Wayback Machine doesn't have that page archived."
15:18 Jordach        died sometime between 2013-14
15:18 segfault22     Even if it did, the people who develop wayback-machine neglected to design it such that it would download files that are not webpages (except images and other stuff that can be embedded int a webpage; you can't really embed a .zip file)
15:18 segfault22     thank you for trying to help, though; most people just ignore my rants and requests
15:20 segfault22     I hope someone downloaded the mod before, and has a copy that can be uploaded to 4shared or something
15:21 segfault22     that would be nice
15:21 sfan5          >4shared
15:21 sfan5          i-is it still 2009?
15:22 segfault22     okay 2shared then
15:22 sfan5          that applies to both
15:22 segfault22     or mediafire, or googledrive, or <insert preferred file sharing service here>
15:22 segfault22     "file-sharing websites are 2009" right
15:23 rubenwardy     I'm so glad that 4shared and mediafire are no longer used very often, at least in the MT community
15:23 rubenwardy     I've blocked mods using both from my moddb: http://app-mtmm.rubenwardy.com/blacklist/
15:24 segfault22     why have you blocked github addresses?
15:24 segfault22     and is there a file-sharing service which you prefer?
15:24 rubenwardy     github.com/downloads/ no longer works, and the others are incorrect
15:24 rubenwardy     github, bitbucket or gitlab :P
15:25 rubenwardy     anyway, gtg. May read logs
15:28 shamoanjac     how do I set path_user?
15:28 shamoanjac     I got a fresh minetest and yet I still get a wrong one
15:29 shamoanjac     pointing to /usr/local/bin/..
15:29 segfault22     Does anyone have a backup copy of 0gb_us mod "Land Claim" the original that does not depend on points-0gb_us and is not part of a 0gb.us_game subgame?
15:31 segfault22     I am not getting any replies on the forum about the mod in a post I made asking if anyone has an archived copy they can upload somewhere
15:32 segfault22     Either people are just ignoring me, and clicking on the post just to make the "views" number look like it's going up without actually having anything to contribute, or nobody who still uses minetest has a copy of it...
15:32 segfault22     probably both
15:34 shamoanjac     hello darkness my old friend
15:34 shamoanjac     I've come to talk with you again
15:34 Jordach        this is why i compile locally
15:34 Jordach        eg, runs from it's own folder
15:34 sfan5          shamoanjac: have you made sure to compile with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 ?
15:36 segfault22     it's a lie that anything you put on the internet is "up there forever"; it's only kept if it's pr0n or hacked credit-card number list "dumps"
15:39 segfault22     I really need that mod...
15:49 shamoanjac     ah uhm thanks sfan5
16:13 lumidify       Hmm, is the on_step function of entities only called when there's a player near the entity?
16:28 kaen           lumidify, yep
16:28 kaen           there's an active block radius in the conf, 2 I think by default
16:29 kaen           if you need persistent simulation you'll have to move it to a domain object of some sort
16:29 kaen           also good fucking luck getting an entity to reliably activate if you spawn it where there are no players.
16:30 kaen           I switched to a different engine for my game because of the inflexibility of entities
16:56 lumidify       Sorry, I was afk for a while, what different engine did you switch to?
17:05 rubenwardy     kaen, I admit entities suck
17:05 rubenwardy     although, would you be able to list what in particular?
17:07 lumidify       See, I was just working on making some NPCs (with mobs redo) have hunger, so once in a while they need food, but it only works while a player is near them.
17:08 STHGOM         lemme guess, the hunger timer resets when they are unloaded
17:09 lumidify       I'm not sure about the timer, but their "food level" just stays the same.
17:11 kaen           ^ this is the main thing
17:11 kaen           you can't attach alway-on logic to an entity
17:11 kaen           then, if you move alway-on logic to a domain class and update it in the global step
17:11 kaen           you want to attach the entity to a position when it materializes
17:11 kaen           but
17:11 lumidify       The timer doesn't reset, it just doesn't update.
17:12 lumidify       I'm assuming that adding it to global step would introduce massive lag if there were many NPC guards
17:12 kaen           if you spawned that entity in a block where there's no player, it gets immediately static'd and then does not reactivate
17:12 kaen           that's a faulty assumption, no more lag than if on_update worked the way you (and I) thought it did
17:13 kaen           I worked around this btw
17:13 kaen           somewhat reliably
17:13 kaen           by making my own bitfield for tracking which blocks are (probably) active
17:13 kaen           and only spawning the entity once a player is nearby
17:14 lumidify       All I'm trying to do is add hunger to the guards in Lord of the Test, and these guards are always spawned by a player, so there'd always be a player there anyways.
17:15 kaen           lucky you
17:15 kaen           then just do what I said, add the hunger tracking to a lua object you write and update yourself
17:15 lumidify       Okay, thanks, I'll see what I can do :)
17:19 kaen           lumidify, also I jumped to terasology. The modules are incredibly difficult to write compared to minetest, which has a very noob-friendly api. But if you're competent and ambitious then the mods are much more powerful, so it's better suited to "total conversion" type of things like I'm doing
17:19 kaen           imo, at least
17:20 kaen           whereas minetest is good for nyan cats
17:20 lumidify       I've tried terasology, but lags like crazy for me, even when I turn off all the graphics settings. Maybe I should try it again.
17:21 kaen           yeah it's also super resource intensive
17:21 lumidify       And I hate Java, but that's just me :D
17:21 kaen           hah so do I tbh
17:22 kaen           but I spent the last day or so digging around the tera api, it's about as good as java code can get. I'm not having any trouble with it despite not writing java in almost a decade
17:22 lumidify       Good to know :)
17:24 newbee         Hi everyone
17:24 newbee         I'm looking for a way to make a plan  (topdownview) from my map and update it automatically?
17:25 newbee         Does anyone know a mod or a trick?
17:25 agaran         there is tool that does map.. in png
17:25 agaran         but does not make map (afaik) of underground slices..
17:26 newbee         a topdownview is enough
17:26 lumidify       kaen: do you think it would make sense to store the guard hunger in a completely different table that just stores the names of each player's guards?
17:27 newbee         do you know the name off the tool or how i can get it>?
17:27 kaen           sure, that makes sense for a first pass
17:28 lumidify       Every guard should have a unique (for the player) name anyways, so then it would be independent of the actual objects.
17:28 kaen           yep, that's exactly the way to do it
17:28 lumidify       Okay :)
17:29 kaen           keep in mind that data stored like that won't automatically get saved with the map
17:29 kaen           so you'll have to save/load it somehow yourself
17:29 lumidify       Yeah, I'll just serialize/deserialize it
17:29 kaen           perfect
17:30 newbee         agaran, could tell something more about that trick of mods?
17:30 agaran         it is not mod, it is minetest-mapper tool
17:31 agaran         on debian it came along minetest in package..
17:31 newbee         ok, it is buildin in minetest?
17:31 newbee         i use ubuntu 14.04
17:31 agaran         I'd say it acompanies it, so try if you have minetest-mapper
17:32 newbee         acompanies?
17:32 agaran         is included in package, I think it is part of minetest indeed
17:32 newbee         sounds good
17:33 agaran         I used it few times.. nice thing..
17:33 newbee         i could not found a mapper by the search engine in ubuntu
17:33 newbee         how can i use it?
17:33 agaran         it is python script actually..
17:34 agaran         it is located /usr/games/minetest-mapper in my case
17:36 newbee         how do you use it?
17:36 agaran         /usr/games/minetest-mapper -i ~/.minetest/worlds/test3/
17:36 newbee         as in how can i start the script for the map/game of my choise?
17:36 agaran         Result image (w=1712 h=992) will be written to map.png
17:37 agaran         yes, you point it to world, you get worldmap in return
17:37 newbee         the image will not be a square?
17:37 agaran         in my case not, because 'known' part of world it is not..
17:37 agaran         it maps parts that got generated..
17:38 newbee         pointing to the world do i with the part after -i?
17:38 newbee         aah ok
17:38 agaran         yes path to world directory
17:38 newbee         thanks
17:38 newbee         i gonna give it a try
17:45 newbee         that works, thank you very much
17:45 agaran         yw
17:51 lumidify       kaen: sadly I realized the guard hunger won't work properly that way, because I have no way to take health from the NPC when there's no food left, since I don't have a reference to the object. The only way I can think of changing this is to add all the guards to a table in the on_activate callbacks. Do you think that would work?
18:03 Nosrick_       lumidify, why not make a guardManager class, that activates on a server on_step, stores the guards, and deals with them when it's activated?
18:06 Nemin          Hello, is this the right place to ask for modding help?
18:06 lumidify       Well, my idea was to have the guards add themselves to a table through the on_activate function, so that a function that runs every server step (through minetest.register_globalstep) can loop through them and update the hunger. That way, I could add only the actual guards to that table.
18:07 Nemin          How could i get an entity's position? 'getpos()' seems to be undefined...
18:08 lumidify       Are you doing getpos on the luaentity or the objectref?
18:08 Nemin          luaentity
18:08 lumidify       I think you need to do it on the objectref
18:09 Nemin          like this on_step = function(self, dtime)  (newline) local position = self.getpos()
18:09 kaen           is it self.object:getpos() from there?
18:10 kaen           honestly can't remember
18:10 lumidify       I think so
18:10 kaen           either way you want :getpos()
18:10 Nemin          let me check
18:10 lumidify       Yeah, I think that's it
18:12 kaen           yeah really not sure about storing a reference to the object ref, I have no idea if that's valid when it reactivates
18:12 Nemin          Yes it's self.object, thank you very much
18:12 lumidify       kaen: According to http://dev.minetest.net/LuaEntitySAO: on_activate(self, staticdata) — Callback method called by the engine when a new entity is instantiated (spawned) using minetest.add_entity(...) or re-instantiated after the object is deactivated.
18:13 kaen           right
18:13 lumidify       Wait, does deactivated also mean when there isn't any player near it anymore?
18:13 kaen           yes
18:14 lumidify       Because then I'd need a way to remove the deactivated objects from the table
18:14 kaen           I believe so as well
18:14 kaen           and you don't get that exactly, although get_staticdata does happen to be called when that happens
18:14 kaen           but it's also called immediately after you add_entity
18:15 kaen           to initialize and save the static data
18:15 kaen           this is the song and dance I was trying to do before I jumped ship
18:16 lumidify       Hmm, probably my table would need to be indexed by the guard names and the actual timer, etc. would need to be stored independently of the object, as I wanted to do before, and then the object needs to be updated when it is activated.
18:16 kaen           at any rate, in your case the solution is simply
18:16 kaen           store the hunger in your own table
18:16 kaen           decrement it in your own update
18:16 kaen           in the entity's on update
18:16 kaen           you read from hunger, decrement health according to that
18:16 kaen           then this magic trick
18:17 kaen           you store a timestamp of the last time you decremented health in on_activate
18:17 kaen           then, in your on_activate call you decrement health based on the time since that timestamp
18:17 kaen           then update timestamp again
18:18 kaen           essentially this accounts for the time the entities were not updating (and also stabilizes your code against tick time variation on laggy servers)
18:18 kaen           hopefully that was clear
18:18 lumidify       Wow, thanks for all your help! I'll try to implement that now :)
18:18 kaen           sure thing, hope it does help
18:27 segfault22     I wish someone had a copy of that mod 0gb_us Land Claim (the original version, not the subgame version)
18:27 segfault22     it's looking a lot more like I'm going to have to modify the subgame version to do what the original version did, and do away with the dependency on points_0gb_us because I don't want to use it.
18:29 segfault22     oh well...
18:48 lumidify       Does anyone know if it is possible to track when an entity is deactivated?
19:03 Jordach        not really, you properly get on_death and on_creation
19:03 Jordach        (iirc those aren't the names)
19:09 Nemin          Can i have another question please? How do implement a "wait"? My problem is i have a function which i want to call three times with a second wait between them.
19:10 Void7          minetest.after()
19:11 Nemin          oh
19:11 Nemin          thanks
19:13 Void7          np :)
19:44 Megaf          !server Megaf
19:44 MinetestBot    Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/24, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms
19:44 APNG           so like let's talk about terms,
19:45 APNG           is a "block" a type, and a "node" a position and associated data (including type)?
20:32 nm0i           Hi
20:45 shamoanjac     his palms are sweaty
22:20 sabino         hi guys! how can I use rollback server command for a user actions?
22:20 nm0i           /rollback <player name> [<seconds>] | :<actor> [<seconds>]: revert actions of a player; default for <seconds> is 60
22:22 shamoanjac     any way to use downloaded maps for minetestmapper?
22:22 shamoanjac     it looks for "world.mt" in the world's folder but this folder only contains an sqlite db for downloaded maps
22:27 sabino         what is actor?
22:31 sabino         Minetes says rollback are disabled. How can I able this?
22:31 Jordach        enable_rollback = 1
22:31 Jordach        in the conf
22:32 Jordach        usually
22:32 Jordach        enable_rollback_recording = true; is needed
22:32 Jordach        enable_rollback_recording = true
22:32 Jordach        just on it's own, that's it
22:33 Jordach        sabino, ^
22:37 sabino         thanks /Jordach
22:37 Jordach        anytime
22:39 sabino         I can't reverse the actions before this configuration. A user pick Lava and destroyed any constructions
22:41 sabino         Is there any way to delete lava and fire blocks?
22:41 sabino         by server commands
22:43 Jordach        worldedit?
22:45 sabino         yes, I have worldedit. But the fire reached the some constructions
22:45 Jordach        you can also delete the bucket mod
22:45 Jordach        which means liquids cannot be hand moved
22:46 Jordach        (all mods are run server side, the clients don't need identical mods!)
22:46 Jordach        (in fact they dont even need a game installed)
22:48 sabino         good, how can I do this?
22:48 Jordach        go to the server's games directory, then into mods, then delete bucket
22:48 Jordach        before the mods folder it's usually minetest_game or similar
22:50 sabino         oh, sorry now understood. this suggestions for future actions, but I ask for how can I fixed the lava and fire spreaded in my constructions
22:52 Jordach        fire's spread can be disabled
22:52 Jordach        apparently not
22:53 Jordach        liquid spread can be disabled
22:53 sabino         by commands?
22:54 Jordach        >#    Liquid update interval in seconds.
22:54 Jordach        ># liquid_update = 1.0
22:54 Jordach        set that to like 60 seconds or higher
22:54 Jordach        liquids will still flow
22:54 Jordach        just extremely slowly
23:27 hisforever     Hi I know how to make the yellow glow blocks , now how do I get pure white glow blocks?
23:28 hisforever     I'm on a server that has no mods for blocks
23:45 nolsen         "Supply converter has no network" THERE IS A NETWORK
23:47 nolsen         Looks like a bug in technic.
23:47 Jordach        there's always a bug in technic