Time Nick Message 00:05 Sokomine twoelk: yes, but there's still limited space available. and that - by now - is the limit. just can't have a big enough, usable screen and extremly tiny at the same time 00:11 * twoelk is just battling with his first smartphone and realizes how much bigger his fingers are than the points he has to hit - the go back-undo function is vital 01:21 twoelk hm 01:26 twoelk forgot I had a test server running - guess I should add some accustic alerts :-P 02:23 jomat Hmmm.... i just dug a ~800 blocks long tunnel at -290 in dreambuilder and didn't find any uranium at all… am i at the wron elevation? 02:30 rom1504 how high are minetest chunks ? 02:49 Sokomine jomat: might be. i don't remember where uranium was and don't know where it currently is. best take a look at the code :-) or dig down until you hit a layer 02:51 Sokomine rom1504: mapblock height is the same as x and z size - 16 nodes in each direction. mapchunks are usually 5x5x5 mapblocks created at the same time by mapgen. that value can be changed 02:51 jomat Sokomine: Well… I dug stairs below -1024 and even didn't have problems to find mithril 02:52 jomat And even the code says -80 … -300: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/blob/master/technic_worldgen/mg.lua 02:52 jomat But I'm not sure what fork_chance = 0 means 03:15 olcountrytek Hello! Is there a minetest channel for total newbies? 03:33 Sokomine jomat: mithril can be found below -512 iirc 03:36 jomat i think you're right 05:23 sofar ugh ugh why doesn't this work 05:23 sofar local n = minetest.get_node(p) 05:23 sofar print(n.name) 05:23 sofar always returns "ignore" 05:24 * sofar goes crazy 05:29 sofar I have the right p. there is stuff in that pos 05:40 * sofar & beginner's mistakes :( 06:12 sofar hmm 06:12 sofar how do I prevent a torch from being hung on the side of a nodebox node? 06:36 tbillion anyonehome? 06:40 sofar does IRC count? 06:41 tbillion does it count as being home? 06:45 tbillion general question, do nodes have unique identification numbers? 06:46 sofar no 06:46 sofar they have names 06:46 sofar "default:stone" 06:49 tbillion right but the name of a node could be any node of that name right? 06:50 tbillion ok so then how would i get the position of a node at an unknown position? 06:50 tbillion given i know what node it is. and not like default dirt 06:51 sofar if you know what node you're looking for, you just need to search for it 06:51 tbillion say there is only a few hundred of this node in the entire map. 06:51 tbillion search for it how? 06:51 sofar obviously that's expensive if you have a large area 06:51 sofar iterate, there's no such function as "tell me the nearest X node" 06:52 sofar if you want to write something efficient, you'll have to maintain a list of places where that special node is 06:52 tbillion lol ... that would be a great function. 06:52 sofar there are some functions that can help 06:52 sofar * `minetest.find_nodes_with_meta(pos1, pos2)` 06:52 sofar * Get a table of positions of nodes that have metadata within a region {pos1, pos2} 06:52 sofar * `minetest.find_node_near(pos, radius, nodenames)`: returns pos or `nil` 06:52 sofar * `radius`: using a maximum metric 06:52 sofar * `nodenames`: e.g. `{"ignore", "group:tree"}` or `"default:dirt"` 06:53 sofar all documented in lua_api.txt 06:53 sofar minetest.find_nodes_in_area 06:53 sofar minetest.find_nodes_in_area_under_air 06:53 tbillion i have a function that executes work on the blocks around it, im trying to get ithe funtion to execute with minetest.register_globalstep but global step doesnt pass the position information 06:53 sofar make a node timer instead? 06:54 sofar probably a lot better that way 06:54 sofar NodeTimerRef in lua_api.txt 06:54 tbillion will it passs the pos of the node containing the timer? 06:55 sofar have you opened lua_api.txt yet? 06:55 tbillion yeah im reading it as well as a few other refernce materials. 06:55 sofar on_timer function in your nodedef gets called 06:55 sofar on_timer = function(pos,elapsed) 06:55 sofar so you get... pos 06:56 tbillion lol thank you ! 06:56 tbillion i been staring at this code for about a week now, things arent sticking out so much if they are obvious any more. 06:58 sofar been there. I just stared 20 minutes at 2 lines of code only to find out I had written 06:58 sofar pos = { pos.x + x, .... } 06:58 sofar while obviously it needs to be 06:58 sofar pos = { x = pos.x + x, .... } 06:59 tbillion that had to be a fun little bug :) 06:59 tbillion im trying to take the code i have off of an ABM and not use minetest.after becasue i want it to execute faster than every second. 07:00 sofar node timer sounds like what you need 07:00 sofar mesecons uses it for a few things 07:00 sofar look at the pressure plate 07:00 sofar it has a timer to detect anyone standing on the plate 07:00 tbillion Don had suggested using minetest.register_globalstep, but i realized fairly fast for one its global (duh) and it doesnt care about the node that references it. i am going to get to work on the node timer thing see where that leads. 07:01 tbillion cool thank you . thats what i love about minetest community the peole are helpful not hateful 07:02 VanessaE also consider using an ABM 07:02 VanessaE if the thing you need to be doing work can be left idle when the player isn't near 07:02 sofar he said he needs higher speed 07:03 VanessaE I missed that part. 07:03 sofar sub-second he said 07:06 tbillion yeah it started out on an ABM, there are alot of issues when it runs on an abm and another reason i want it on a timer of some sort is i want to be able to walk away from it and let it go instead of needing a bunch of world anchors. 07:07 sofar node timers will also get unloaded 07:07 tbillion also it has a tendancy to move away from the player faster than the player can move which causes it to bug out. 07:07 sofar if the area is not loaded, timers for the nodes inside of it do not fire 07:08 tbillion ... so back to refining my code that emerges the area? 07:08 VanessaE yep. 07:08 sofar either that or force the server to never unload 07:09 sofar which will make your world size extremely limited :) 07:09 tbillion the block itself force loads itself, then moves and force unloads its old self and loads its new self. 07:09 CWz hey VanessaE 07:10 VanessaE hi 07:14 tbillion ok let me see if i understand this correctly, how to ask this. the blocks you see are basically a skin over a bunch of empty area correct? say you have a mapblock, only the face blocks actually exist right, and if you mine one of the face blocks the block behind it is created? 07:15 VanessaE no 07:15 VanessaE the whole mapblock exists. 07:15 VanessaE as do its surrounding mapblocks, if the area has been emerged already 07:16 sofar it's not drawn, but it's loaded 07:16 VanessaE right. 07:16 * sofar hacks up metal trapdoors 07:17 tbillion so calling minetest.emerge_area(0,0,0 , 16,16,16) on a map that had no blocks at all would make a mapblock in those coordinates 07:18 VanessaE it would build a 5x5x5 mapblock area around that space. 07:18 VanessaE (if the area has to be generated) 07:19 tbillion lol i suppose that explains how i have been making it seg fault :) 07:19 tbillion i was calling it on each block the abm worked on, very wasteful but it worked. until it crashed :) 07:19 VanessaE besides, emerge_area() probably needs mapblock coords. 07:19 VanessaE (not node coords) 07:22 tbillion whats the difference? other than a map block is bigger 07:23 tbillion and is there a method to return the mapblock you are currently working in? 07:23 VanessaE mapblock coords are 1/16 of node coords 07:23 VanessaE that's about all really 07:24 VanessaE so if you pass e.g. 0,0,0 and 1,1,1 where mapblock coords are required, then you're operating on 0,0,0 to 16,16,16 in node coords 07:24 tbillion wholly cow.. that really explains the seg fault :) 07:26 tbillion they should probably note that here > http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.emerge_area 07:26 VanessaE wholly cow? you sure there wasn't some lamb or chicken in there? ;) 07:26 tbillion pretty sure . no mobs on this server. no actual cows were harmed. 07:26 VanessaE haha 07:27 VanessaE and yeah I agree; I think one of us brought that up when the function was added 07:27 tbillion although thats a great idea VanessaE when i get the mod done i should have it detect when it runs over a cow and have it add ground beef to the inventory.. lmao 07:27 VanessaE I guess the consensus was that if it obviously operates on blocks, it should assume block coords 07:27 VanessaE hahaha 07:29 tbillion lemme go figure out this math now that i know its wrong :) 07:30 sofar yay, metal trapdoors implemented 07:31 VanessaE all that said, 16x16x16 mapblocks is only 4096, and they're not too big in memory either (what was it, 100k?), so I'm a little surprised that it segfaults 07:31 sofar memory running out will not give you a segfault, ever 07:32 tbillion well the only i changed this time that made it seg fault was the emerge call 07:32 VanessaE well true 07:33 VanessaE unless the act of running out of memory trashes pointers somewhere 07:33 tbillion and i was calling the emerge blocks 60x60x3 times 07:33 VanessaE you know how badly linux handles an out-of-memory-and-no-swap condition 07:33 VanessaE tbillion: that's...a tad excessive :) 07:33 tbillion lol i really wanted it to work lmao 07:34 sofar you'll get an OOM event, still no segfault 07:34 VanessaE sofar: I mean trashes pointers elsewhere in your program, 07:34 sofar darn, now I have to teach mesecons about metal trap doors 07:34 VanessaE i.e. if you did something stupid about assuming that a mem allocation will always succeed 07:34 tbillion and i dont have to worry about swap, or memory i got 64gb of real ram and 4gb of swap that never gets used due to so much real memory 07:35 VanessaE lua has limits 07:35 VanessaE particularly luajit 07:36 VanessaE I think 2GB and 1GB respectively? 07:36 sofar even in 64gb? 07:36 VanessaE yep. 07:36 sofar I mean, x64_64? 07:36 tbillion and i am sure lua is probably what i killed :) i like to use it til it breaks 07:36 tbillion actually pae 07:36 VanessaE minetest's environment is pretty much all one big glob and you can't allocate more than some small amount 07:36 tbillion pae is what makes the memory limits go up as i remeber 07:36 VanessaE for luajit it's like 1 or 2 GB 07:37 VanessaE looks like plain lua is 4GB ? 07:37 sofar if it uses 32bit addressing 07:37 sofar that'd be 4gb 07:37 VanessaE yeah 07:37 sofar but that's... strange 07:37 VanessaE of course I'm told that, in practice, you never want to push lua that high anyway 07:37 VanessaE the garbage collector will kill your performance 07:38 tbillion another strangity is when you run an abm facing north or east and it executes the code as fast as it comes in but other wise it executes ata bout one second intervals. 07:39 VanessaE tbillion: well, abms aren't supposed to even be able to run more than once a second, so that's weird. 07:39 tbillion ill make a screen capture and post it to youtube .. lol its pretty funny .. hang on a sec 07:44 sofar VanessaE: any idea how I can get rid of metal doors that have lost ownership metadata easily? 07:44 VanessaE worldedit 07:45 VanessaE only way I know of 07:45 sofar that'd do it 07:45 sofar anyway, I should do a pull request to minetest_game/doors and mesecons_doors now 07:46 * sofar wonders what to work on next 07:52 CWz Minetest does need more admin tools i think... 08:07 tbillion https://youtu.be/lI-jt8bIbN4 08:08 tbillion went west first then north :) 08:09 * sofar decides to fix the stupid wheat farming model 08:11 Krock tbillion, did you add enough tags? Adele on the right side is kinda irrelevant with minetest 08:11 tbillion actually i put no tage lol 08:11 Krock however, nice tunnel boring machine :) 08:11 tbillion tags... 08:12 Krock :< 08:12 tbillion i am working on it to give it more features. but thanks 08:13 tbillion im working on sub onesecond execution and being able to run it when your not near it and it bing able to deal with blocks that dont exist :) 08:14 tbillion at the core any way then when i figure out the whole inventory thing it will be able to refuel itself use different materials, as well as lay different things like bridges roads and tunnels. 08:21 tbillion on that emerge blocks is it a net like the set po1 and pos2 in world edit? 08:29 Krock https://bacrown.com/ 08:34 leon er 09:13 tbillion interesting fact: minetest.env:add_node(bpos, { name = "air" }) and minetest.dig_node(bpos) do the exact same thing funtionally... however adding air instead of diggin the node results in way less console output :) also adding air is faster and more accurate. 10:42 Blekpug how does one place a ladder? 10:44 Blekpug Neither 'use' nor 'drop' seem to do what is wanted. 10:44 tbillion place a ladder 10:44 tbillion like to climb? 10:45 tbillion point at wall right click isnt it? 10:47 Ingar like any other node ? 10:48 Ingar Blekpug: they like to act a bity weird though 10:48 tbillion weird like what? 10:49 Ingar at least, compared to that java game 10:49 tbillion lol that java game... 10:50 Blekpug It moves like i'm harvesting with the ladder 10:50 Ingar you know of whom I speak! 10:50 tbillion actually while i know what your talking about when you reference that java game i have actually never played it. when i came to the block game scene minetest is my first and last choice. 10:51 Ingar I'm a veteran, played the java game since beta, even tried early minetest versions 10:51 tbillion i could have sware all there was to ladders was you place them on the wall walk up to it and then press shift to go up... 10:51 tbillion space to go down 10:52 Ingar I made a long shaft down recently, can't rmemeber any real issues 10:52 Ingar which reminds me, I have to finish it so it gos all the way to the surface :) 10:53 tbillion you should look at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11564 way better than ladders 10:54 Blekpug click on alternative mouse button did it. 10:54 tbillion how many mouse buttons do you have lol 10:54 Calinou Ingar, played it in Alpha 1.2.2 :p 10:55 Ingar Calinou: I resisted okaying the alpha 10:55 Ingar I gave in when beta was released 10:55 Ingar *playing the alpha 10:56 Calinou the inventory was client-side and easily hackable 10:57 Ingar bugs? in mc? you're kidding are you? 10:58 tbillion whats the difference functionally between VoxelManip():read_from_map({x=pos.x, y=pos.y, z=pos.z}, {x=pos.x+Xmax, y=pos.y+Ymax, z=pos.z+Zmax}) and minetest.emerge_area({x=pos.x-5, y=pos.y-5-5, z=pos.z}, {x=pos.x+Xmax, y=pos.y+Ymax, z=pos.z+Zmax})? 10:59 tbillion other than the area size is different.. 10:59 tbillion i tested them both out and i cant tell a difference 11:24 Blekpug What tool is used to better harvest plants and leaves? 11:25 Obani sword I guess 11:40 Blekpug Wooden sword is being worn out, so yes. 11:53 Viper168 reminds me, in the real world the machete is one of the coolest gardening tools around 11:54 Viper168 whoever decided that when they had unwanted plants, that they would just go hack them up with a sword was several points of awesome above average 11:57 Krock hack the machete 12:01 kaeza o/ 12:02 Krock o/ 12:22 kaeza MinetestBot! 12:22 MinetestBot kaeza! 12:24 Blekpug For http://wiki.minetest.net/Ores , is the 'Common at' depth the depth at which it first becomes common or depth at which it is most common? Do some ores become less common at deeper depths? 12:35 kaeza Blekpug, at which it starts becoming more common 12:35 Calinou Blekpug, no, eg. coal is as common at -150 as it is at -30000 12:35 Calinou it doesn't get rarer when you get deeper 12:36 Calinou (though it is technically possible to make it so) 12:37 kaeza Blekpug, for example, technically speaking, the default game has one (low) probability for MESE at heights -64 to -255, and another (high) probability for depths -256 and below 12:39 Krock just dig down to -1024m (or a bit more) - you'll have the maximal ores there 12:57 Blekpug I placed a bunch of leaves on the ground with alt-mouse. --not as stackable items-- and they are still there. I thought they would decay. 12:58 Calinou Minetest does not recognize my G700s mouse buttons :( 12:58 Calinou (the additional ones) 12:58 Calinou at least in key configuration GUI 12:59 Krock Blekpug, sadly they don't when they're placed with the mouse 12:59 Krock use /pulverize instead 13:00 Blekpug I want them to have a chance to become saplings. /pulverize sounds like it just makes them vanish 13:00 Krock That's true. But placing leaves to farm saplings is kinda cheaty 13:01 Krock alright, I don't agree with that "feature" too but it has already been added :/ 13:03 kaeza they also look rather ugly, and basically useless otherwise 13:05 Blekpug saplings useless? If I want to farm trees in a certain place, they are useful 13:05 kaeza no, leaves :P 13:06 Blekpug In crafting, Is there a way to convert all? middle mouse does the most i've found so far 13:20 Krock you can use them to make plastic 13:20 Krock nvm. Yes, middle mouse is the biggest "step" you can do in crafting 13:44 Blekpug Sea water does not want to flow down my shaft and i don't know why. 13:48 Krock almost every node can block water 13:49 Krock maybe the waterflow stopped - place a torch and remove it again next to (or in) the water 14:04 Blekpug Do ladders stop water? 14:06 Krock Blekpug, yes, like torches, chairs, apples and stone 14:07 Blekpug That explains it. Thanks. 14:07 Krock !next 14:07 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 14:09 Krock Lol. There's a mod that actually sucks 14:12 Fixer hi 14:12 Fixer breaking, ati video drivers suck! 14:13 Fixer or whatever :} 14:13 Fixer they wrote a supernanoinnovative driver control software in QT... and it is crashing, GJ 14:23 Krock lol 14:28 Fixer also, they fixed very dangerous bug with fan control... and it is keeps crashing anyway, guy 14:29 Fixer guh* 14:37 LazyJ When it comes to texture packs, does Minetest load into memory every file in the texture pack, including work files from the graphics program (ie. GIMP's .xcf and Inkscape's .svg) or does it only load the .png and .jpg files? 14:38 LazyJ In the texture pack I use, I have a lot of "work files" that are handy to have in the directory as I tweak and create textures. 15:02 Calinou LazyJ, only the actual images are being loaded 15:02 Calinou I suggest you place your source files in a separate folder, it's cleaner 15:02 Calinou (also good for Git organization) 15:03 LazyJ Ok, thanks ;) 15:04 Blekpug Is there a way to specifically plant apple trees or only randomly from regular saplings? 15:05 Blekpug I suppose I can repeatedly kill non-apple trees 15:06 Calinou they are random, they're the same saplings 15:07 Blekpug And do not come from dropped apples I suppose. 15:08 Blekpug It appears that in 4.13 , dropped leaves no longer decompose 15:08 Blekpug Regardless of how they are dropped 15:19 Calinou all items disappear after 10 minutes when dropped 15:19 Calinou be it dropped by "nature", by player (drop key) or by player death 15:26 Krock it's always the same drop function.. 15:34 Blekpug Then I should have called one 'place' or similar. 15:34 Blekpug I wrote confusingly 15:34 Blekpug If there is an 'identify block' feature, please tell. 15:36 Calinou Blekpug, press F5 15:36 Calinou and point a block 15:36 Calinou see top of screen for information 15:38 Blekpug Does not work when pointing at lava. I want to see whether it is a lava source or lava. 15:38 est31 take a bucket 15:45 Blekpug est31: How do I determine which it is with a bucket? 15:45 est31 you can now point at it I think 16:30 CWz um what does this mean A steralization error occured: ServerEnvironment::loadMeta():EnvArgsEnd not found! The server is probably running a different version of minetest 16:32 est CWz, read https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11746 16:34 CWz thought so. est. someone was havign a problem and asked me about 16:35 Fixer Calinou, they are? No need for clearobjects if no mobs? 16:39 Calinou Fixer, yes, it was added to default game ~1 year ago 16:45 Fixer LazyJ, do you run /clearobjects, your server has no mobs, any effect? 16:49 Blekpug Lava can not be picked up with a bucket. only lava source. I was not expecting that 16:53 Calinou obviously, else you could duplicate it 16:53 est minetest's way of handling fluids is weird 16:53 est no fluid conservation 16:53 est no pressure 16:53 est etc 16:54 Calinou this is not a PhD game 16:54 est but I guess freeminer ain't better either 16:54 est just more bugs 16:54 est slightly more features but mostly more bugs 16:56 est man, why can't they release a faster apt package manager 16:57 LazyJ Fixer, I run /clearobjects when upgrading the engine but the process now takes over 9hrs to complete. 16:57 Blekpug Is there any way to hook up a furnace to lava source for an infinite supply of heat? 16:57 est Blekpug, no 16:57 Fixer apt is fast o.O 16:57 est apt is damn slow 16:57 Fixer i mean it is 16:57 Fixer what could be faster? 16:57 Blekpug pacman is fast 16:57 est why does it have to download the whole damn list 16:58 est exactly, pacman is fast. 16:58 Blekpug pacman used by Arch, Manjaro 16:58 LazyJ Even with an entity_ttl of 1 minute, players can make a mess of dropped items by throwing stuff out of their inventory or dropping it into lava and then teleport out of the active area, leaving all the entities still intact. 16:58 est git is fast, hg and bzr are slow like svn 16:59 est LazyJ, /clearobjects is something that can be speeded up greatly, I just never had the time to sit down and polish the code. 17:02 LazyJ est, I've tried increasing the max_clearobjects_extra_loaded_blocks but it would crash the server (4gb) if set any higher than 1024. 17:03 est what the hell, even own settings for it? 17:03 LazyJ and it would be great if /clearobjects could be a *lot* faster. 17:03 est damn, its just such a simple task, can be done much much faster 17:04 est I even have code, the only big issue of it is that you have to restart the server for it 17:04 est e.g. not doable while server runs 17:04 est like microsoft update :) 17:04 LazyJ I have to "close" the server for updgrades and clearobjects as is. 17:05 LazyJ So closing the server for 1hr to run a faster clearobjects is better than being closed for 9+ hrs. 17:06 est yeah, my code will take ~10 mins for small maps to ~40 mins for larger maps 17:06 est larger map as in VE-C 17:07 LazyJ LinuxGaming's map is almost 14gb. 17:07 LazyJ I also vacuum the map.squlite after each run of clearobjects. 17:08 est vacuum? 17:08 LazyJ Defrag. 17:08 est ok 17:08 tbillion does defragging it make a significant performance difference? 17:09 LazyJ tbillion, not that I can tell but it does reduce the size of the database a tiny bit. 17:10 LazyJ I figure after clearobjects deletes stuff, the defrag tightens up whatever little pockets those deleted entities left behind. 17:10 tbillion was curious becasue my sandbox map (development) is constantly gaining loose or lost things , especially with sparradic code executing inside, i notticed that after i destroy a map for a few days i get a major perfomance pickup if i delete the sndbox and start fresh 17:11 Fixer side note: people who designed PC keyboard with FN instead of Ctrl and without Pg/Dn Up, Del, Ins, whatever should die from ****** 17:11 tbillion alot of us could do without that freaking windows flag though :P 17:12 est Fixer, my netbook has a setting in bios to switch between fn and f 17:12 tbillion i keep an old kbd the one i have now is from the early ninties i like to hear it when i type..lol 17:12 Fixer est, it is PC keyboard not even a notebook, i have no idea why they produce that shit, i have no words i just want to destroy it with a hammer 17:13 est What the... 17:13 Fixer and it is not my keyboard btw 17:13 tbillion fireworks are cooler than a hammer. 17:14 MinetestBot 02[git] 04est31 -> 03minetest/minetest: Make travis work again 135643b9b http://git.io/vRuLl (152015-12-05T18:01:01+01:00) 17:15 tbillion what is travis? 17:16 est online service that builds your software, so that you can check whether your commit breaked a build 17:16 est broke 17:16 est damn, that was bad english 17:16 Fixer also, too bad ISIL terrorises innocent people while not touching scum like printer manufacturers 17:17 tbillion ahh, not applicable to me i suppose then... its funny cuz my name is travis..lol 17:18 Fixer minetest-dev lives 17:18 Fixer kinda 17:22 Fixer btw 17:22 Fixer wth is wrong with ambience mod of minetest? 17:22 Fixer it feels so... basic, sound is turned on/off depending on where you stand, no 3d, no whatever 17:30 LazyJ Ambience is better than nothing until someone invests the time and effort to code something better for Minetest. 17:31 LazyJ Same as it is for any mod or engine stuff about Minetest - someone has to be willing and able to invest a lot of their personal time and effort to make something better, for free, for the rest of us to enjoy. 17:32 * LazyJ says this as he stares at a mountainous to-do list for his server. 17:33 CWz LazyJ, keeps on pile task upon task on himself 17:34 CWz This is one of the top 40*35 causes of overstress related death 18:46 Fixer funny how hexchat tries to open links, first click - nope, second - ok... then it opens with only one click without problem 18:47 Krock same situation with nTalk here 18:47 est31 Fixer, sound is 3d 18:48 Krock A yay for Stereo! 18:48 Fixer can't locate direct location of the source :} 18:48 Fixer ...aaand it is 21 day since last farmap commit 18:49 Fixer this is gonna be fun times 18:56 Blekpug How do you use a boat? I walk onto it, point down onto it, press use. Then when I move, i am not bound to the boat. 18:56 Krock right click 18:57 Krock steer with the movement keys 18:57 Fixer ya 18:57 Fixer figured that out only in 2015 18:57 Krock a whole year? 18:57 Fixer well, since 2011 18:57 Fixer whole 4 years 18:57 Fixer or whatever 18:57 Krock o.o 18:57 Fixer used boat as safe place 18:58 Fixer swim a lot @ dispatch boat @ ??? @ safety! 18:58 Krock get a fish mod that adds sharks 18:58 Fixer i was not thinking MT was so advanced :} 18:58 Krock lol 18:59 Fixer it has some advanced bugs too 18:59 Fixer liquid over ignore bug made glorious megagrief on J-T server, fixable only by worldedit 19:00 Krock :D 19:00 Fixer well, not actually it, but it made things worse 19:00 Fixer because with it columns spread a lot and it looked much worse 19:00 Fixer and hard to fix 19:00 Fixer by hand 19:00 Fixer because bugged liquids 19:00 Fixer they go down... and then stop 19:03 Sokomine yes, kind of funny to walk below the ocean in a "cave" sourrounded by water. sometimes happened on servers which had too much load 19:05 Obani rubenwardy, You added the mod to disable the sneak glitch 19:05 Obani on your server ? 19:05 rubenwardy yeah 19:05 rubenwardy I feel that is dis 19:05 rubenwardy bleh 19:05 Obani - 100 19:06 Obani Yes this feature is horrible 19:06 * Sokomine stares disapprovingly at rubenwardy 19:06 rubenwardy I feel that it disadvantages against tablet servers, and doesn't make sense 19:06 Obani It has became impossible to build 19:06 rubenwardy *clients 19:06 rubenwardy I will remove the no sneaking part of it 19:06 Sokomine sneak glitch is necessary. it might be diffrent if carts where working better 19:06 Blekpug How do you interpret radar? 19:06 rubenwardy not necessary in a map of 160x160x160 19:07 Obani Sokomine, here it's even different 19:07 Obani This mod disables ALL 19:07 Sokomine hm, tablet clients have their own in-built disadvantages. it's ok for sightseeing, but i never figured out how to really built with it. the controls don't work well for me 19:07 Obani It just keep the "slowing" feature of the sneak 19:07 Obani keeps* 19:08 Sokomine rubenwardy: ah, ok. diffrent type of server then. most likely really not necessary to have it then 19:08 rubenwardy I like the sneak glitch for building servers 19:08 rubenwardy I loved it in redcrab 19:08 kattsmisk OldCoder: why can I not reach your servers? 19:08 Sokomine does anyone have an idea why the cables/adapters you might need are never there, no matter how many cables you've amassed? 19:09 Sokomine rubenwardy: ah, fine :-) then i agree with you :-) would love to see more buildings from you :) 19:09 Obani rubenwardy, I hope you won't keep this feature on the server :x 19:09 rubenwardy !title https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/commit/e8bb6d9ed1a77eb3183e21bd6ec29bb894fad6da 19:09 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Allow sneaking · rubenwardy/capturetheflag@e8bb6d9 · GitHub 19:10 rubenwardy I've been away for 26 hours 19:27 rubenwardy wat 19:28 Obani ? 19:50 Calinou time to test my new mouse on Capture The Flag 19:52 Sokomine has anyone got any experience with an usb switch for switching keyboard and mouse? 19:53 * Sokomine takes calinous mouse and takes a look at it 19:53 Calinou rubenwardy, add a sprinting mod perhaps? 19:53 Calinou Sokomine, I bought two G700s, one for desktop, one for laptop. They were on a deal on Amazon, €45 each 19:53 Calinou (normally costs €75 to €80) 19:54 Calinou this replaces my LS1 (laptop) and M500 (desktop) 19:54 rubenwardy I'm going to 19:54 rubenwardy I'll do that now 19:54 * twoelk hides his 5euro mouse 19:54 sofar hah 19:55 Calinou rubenwardy, please use the "Use" button rather than double-tap, I hate double-tap 19:55 Sokomine Calinou: i wouldn't spend so much money on a mouse. i have an optical cherry one that works fine. it does already last longer than the mechanical mice i had before 19:55 Calinou also set the bonus to something reasonable 19:55 rubenwardy [off] fuck sake. I just typed a long post, then accidentally closed the tap 19:56 Calinou like +40% for speed and +10% for jump 19:56 Calinou rubenwardy, Ctrl+Shift+T 19:56 Calinou reopens last closed tab 19:56 rubenwardy I did that, using history -> recently closed tabs 19:56 rubenwardy but the textarea was reset 19:56 Sokomine twoelk: don't remember how much mine did cost. but the optical mouse is definitely better than the ones with the ball inside. the old ones kept falling apart and where more difficult to operate 19:57 twoelk can confirm :-) 19:57 Calinou Sokomine, this is laser (up to 8200dpi), wireless (rechargeable using cable), has 4 additional buttons on side, 3 on top left, 1 on middle, mouse wheel is multidirectional, and the mouse wheel is "unlockable" (smooth scrolling) 19:58 Sokomine rubenwardy: that's bad :-( i've had that on forums more than once as well (mostly due to other reasons than closing the tab). that's why i prefer to cut&paste the whole text before pressing any further buttons 19:58 Calinou also wireless isn't that bad, I can play Warsow using it decently :p 19:58 Calinou the downside is the battery life, only ~2 days 19:58 Calinou but really, I bought it because of the deal, I wouldn't have bought it outside of a deal 19:59 twoelk I have had cheap but good and expensive but bad mice - and mice without a tail aka wireless just don't work for me 19:59 Sokomine Calinou: i believe this one has a tiny laser diode as well. no idea about the resolution. wireless - don't want that with input devices. seems your mouse serves diffrent purposes than mine :-) 19:59 Calinou some €20 mice are pretty nice, I agree 20:00 Calinou Sokomine, I don't want to bother with cables on a laptop… :p 20:00 VanessaE Calinou: pretty shitty battery life; my mouse runs for at least a couple months on a single rechargeable "AA" 20:00 Calinou VanessaE, yes that's true 20:00 Sokomine Calinou: but in a way i've got two mice hooked up to the same machine. in addition to the ooptical mouse, i do have a pointing stick in the keyboard. that one's far more convenient in most situations and saves my hands from starting to hurt (as they do when operating a mouse for a long time) 20:00 Calinou thankfully you can leave it plugged all the time if you want 20:00 VanessaE I guess that helps, but it defeats the purpose of "wireless" :) 20:01 * twoelk eyes his cherry keyboard and calculates with round abvout 15y it might be his oldest piece of hardware still in use 20:02 Sokomine i'm annoyed about the amount of cables necessary, but...the one cable from the mouse to...somewhere...just doesn't make a difference. it's a tiny cable. nothing in comparison to the kvm switch i'm considering using :-/ 20:02 Calinou the oldest hardware I still use is my processor and graphics card, in my desktop :P 20:02 Calinou Feb 2012 20:02 VanessaE I think my BK Precision 1477 oscilloscope qualifies as "oldest" here 20:03 VanessaE (thing is, I'm not sure when it was made) 20:03 Calinou Sokomine, not having a cable for mouse allows more freedom of movement 20:03 VanessaE Sokomine: all those "tiny" cables add up. 20:04 Calinou rubenwardy, what about mod to pick up dropped items when walking over them? 20:04 Calinou in short… make minetest_game usable :P 20:04 Sokomine twoelk: i bought my keyboard not too long ago due to problems with having to use a mouse. i'm very glad about that additional pointing stick 20:04 VanessaE hm. service manual for the 1477 was published in 1985 20:05 * Sokomine runs away in fear from all those cables! 20:05 Calinou the mouse additional buttons can be used to copy/paste, alt-tab, go back/forward in Web browsing… 20:06 Sokomine VanessaE: but a wireless mouse won't really save much on that accord. it'd still have to have a receiver plugged in somewhere. then you've got the mouse *and* receiver. that's even worse than one cable! 20:06 twoelk I have a"mousepad" that has an usb hub built-in - that saves cables 20:06 twoelk and it glows in the dark 20:06 VanessaE Sokomine: wireless mouse receivers are the size of your thumbnail. 20:07 VanessaE (the whole thing barley sticks out of the USB port) 20:07 Sokomine Calinou: item_pickup or so does exist and is sometimes used on servers. works quite well. i do get annoyed if people use item_drop. i hate that part. it's such a waste of everyone's ressources 20:07 twoelk I had wireless at the office and always had to change batteries 20:08 Sokomine VanessaE: still. they need to be plugged in. and the mouse needs to be recharged sometimes 20:08 Calinou lol, the "Paste" button enables/disables free move in Minetest 20:08 Calinou it just sends a Ctrl+C or Ctrl+V 20:08 Calinou so Minetest gets the V 20:08 VanessaE Sokomine: not if you use the kind that uses separate rechargable batts 20:08 Calinou (I bound free move to V) 20:08 VanessaE then you just stick them in any old recharger while you run from a fresh set 20:09 Calinou VanessaE, yeah, this mouse has a mini-receiver 20:09 Calinou there's "1000 Hz" written on it 8D 20:09 Calinou but I'm not using high polling rate anyway 20:09 Sokomine VanessaE: but then i'd have the recharger lying around? and that needs to be connected to a power source via a cable as well (unless it's one that fills the whole...er...steckdose) 20:10 twoelk besides I once worked at a companie that "advised" us not to use wireless mice so that no one would steal their secrets ;-P 20:10 VanessaE Sokomine: sure, "lying around" as in stuffed under your monitor among the other desk junk :) 20:10 Sokomine :-) 20:10 * Sokomine does not dare to take another look at that desk jung :-) 20:11 twoelk I have a torch attached under my table - in case I need it 20:11 twoelk deep mining adventures 20:12 twoelk sometimes I visit the old pc's I archive under there 20:14 Sokomine there might be dungeon masters hiding down there! 20:14 Sokomine and, as far as old pcs go...i still have a 386er in a big tower here. it's not used anymore but performs well as a stand for a flower pot 20:16 twoelk well I do have an 368sx under the table - somewhere 20:16 tbillion ive ran the minetest server on a 486DX, didnt work well but it worked. :) whats the easiest way to compute block posistions in an arch? 20:16 Sokomine somewhere? :-) 20:17 twoelk my table is - er - big? 20:17 Sokomine tbillion: amazing :-) wouldn't have expected a 486er to be able to run mt 20:17 tbillion i didnt say modern mt :) 20:17 Sokomine twoelk: if it's a big tower, you could use it as a table stand. the cases used to be very big and solid 20:18 tbillion but i think it was v2 or early 3, stripped down debian 392 megs of ram and server only default game 20:18 Sokomine tbillion: perhaps worldedit can do arches. i'm not sure right now. else...sin/cos and the like? 20:18 twoelk no it's a desktop or what they where called 20:18 * twoelk starts counting 20:18 tbillion has to be from lua. and i was hoping for radius, but i suppose sine\cos would work. 20:19 twoelk hm 5 pc-towers, 2 lego computercases, a shredder, lots of music-boxes - just can't see what's in the back 20:20 Sokomine tbillion: i don't know offhand which functions lua supports in that regard. but i'm sure you can find re  20:20 twoelk oh and a box of socks 20:21 Sokomine socks are important as well 20:21 tbillion mmk :( off to dig in lua references ... google here i go :) 20:21 Sokomine have you found a hidden cache of lost (non-paired) socks? :-) 20:22 Sokomine tbillion: that's the right attitude :-) it really ought to be easy enough to find. there are lots of nice references 20:22 * Sokomine hands a pick to twoelk 20:22 twoelk tbillion: couldn't you use some l-tree formula? 20:23 tbillion A point at angle theta on the circle whose centre is (x0,y0) and whose radius is r is (x0 + r cos theta, y0 + r sin theta). Now choose theta values evenly spaced between 0 and 2pi. 20:23 tbillion i dont know an ltree formula i only got the associates degree (or two_ 20:23 twoelk I guess paramat might know something 20:25 tbillion think i found it ::: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23157655/how-draw-a-circle-in-lua 20:26 Krock the larger a circle gets, the more fragments you'll have inside 20:26 tbillion is luajit (is that what the engin is called) limited any form standard lua? 20:27 tbillion @Krock , yes im actually afraid of that. 20:27 Krock there's a memory bug somewhere but you can ignore that 20:27 Krock I'm not @ yet 20:27 tbillion lmao. im good at finding memory bugs 20:27 twoelk tbillion: actually something like this adapted to road building (forget roll) might be fun https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4766 20:29 twoelk tbillion: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2988 20:29 tbillion manual control? that would make it an entity right? 20:31 Calinou today I learned: in CTF, you can steal stuff from enemy chest 20:32 tbillion i could probably mash up my TBM with microcars (cuz i like them they are cute) actually right now the radius is for the bridges :::http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u416/Travis_Gillespie/screenshot_20151205_140207_zpshdllih4j.png 20:32 tbillion im trying to replicate the golden gate bridge in a scaleable model :) [a man without ambition is nothing] 20:35 Sokomine Calinou: not very nice. better put stuff *in* the "enemy" chest than take it out. unless it's an npc. then you can steal as much as you like :-) 20:37 * twoelk is pretty sure he has seen some goldengate like bridge on some server 20:38 tbillion most the stuff i have seen is doen with schematics or mapgen... but hey i always welcome code to autopsy :) 20:39 twoelk uhm, the "golden-gate" that bridge spans is some 2k wide - iirc 20:39 Krock tbillion, http://pastebin.com/nbVhR6Rm 20:39 Krock my way for doing that 20:39 tbillion i have walked it on my 18th birthday with this really cute girl and ... well thats off topic 20:40 twoelk hehe, have some of these help your machine https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2576 20:40 Krock mhm actually it would be "local len = math.sqrt((x ^ 2) + (y ^ 2))" 20:41 tbillion yeah i seen the workers mod... lol would be funny to deply them as construction crew.. lmao 20:41 tbillion ok Krock imma go run this see what i get, thank you for the help bbl8r 20:42 twoelk Krock: and now calculate lamp posts at given intervals 20:42 Krock tbillion, see my correction message. I coded a bit too fast :/ 20:42 Krock twoelk, err.. what do you mean? 20:42 twoelk roadbuilding 20:43 Fixer i have super cheap mouse and it is pretty good 20:43 tbillion yeah i got the correction... thank you :) 20:43 Sokomine twoelk: the voidpixel server has a very nice bridge of that type. libertyland also makes use of slopes to a huge degree 20:44 twoelk go steal the design 20:44 twoelk put it in your place-schematics box 20:46 Sokomine i'm not in need for such a bridge :-) i just did sightseeing and enjoyed having a look at the well-built bridge. it was also fun to run along the cables :-) 20:46 twoelk maybe tbillion's should drag some place-schematics-chests around 20:47 twoelk would be cool if yoe could drop some blueprints into the machine 20:49 * Sokomine nods to twoelk 20:50 twoelk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Sound_Bridge the bridge I battled the wind on quite often 20:50 Sokomine when still building with the old mc classic, some server commands similar to worldedit where helpful. it's often convenient to build elements and then rotate, mirror and otherwise place them in order to construct a more complex construction. the build chest can help there 20:51 Sokomine i probably ought to add a command to remove the box after placement. for now, you need to use worledit to get rid of the box if you've spanwed something and don't want the box anymore 20:51 tbillion whats a place shecmatic chest? 20:52 tbillion and that freakin circle is huge. 20:53 tbillion maybe the shematics should be inventory items and when you put them in the machine it builds that bridge or thing...scalable of course. i like to build to my needs not the needs of a design. 20:54 twoelk tbillion: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13116 <- ask Sokomine for details :-D 20:56 tbillion thats cool. 20:56 Sokomine meldrian did a nice tutorial on youtube, explaining my handle_schematics mod 20:59 tbillion krocks circle in additon to being big is square :) http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u416/Travis_Gillespie/screenshot_20151205_145502_zpsl8hqpgdj.png 20:59 tbillion took a minute to find it ... lol can node positions be float? probably not :( 21:01 Sokomine no, they can't. but do take a look at that bridge on the voidpixel server (provided the server's up). it makes use of slopes instead of full blocks only 21:02 Krock tbillion, are you sure you applied my after-post message? 21:02 Krock and no, floaty numbers are floor'ed 21:03 tbillion yeah... it looks like the bigger it is the rounder it is... radius nine you can see rounded corners, radius 1 you have aperfect 9 block square. hang on ill get eh screen shot. 21:03 tbillion would floring the float yield better results? 21:04 twoelk may depend on scale? 21:05 tbillion http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u416/Travis_Gillespie/screenshot_20151205_150010_zpsmejnffvi.png 21:05 tbillion http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u416/Travis_Gillespie/screenshot_20151205_145916_zpspjgsdos8.png 21:06 Krock lovely. But why are they so scattered? 21:07 tbillion idk i ran the code as is.. i actually think it was over thought... hold on ill be back :) i think it works 21:12 tbillion nope , i was wrong but i managed a diamond from a square :) 21:17 Fixer damn... XP is superfast 21:17 Fixer and my win7 is so horribly slow at boot 21:18 Krock http://esfriki.com/f/a6LXLbR_700b.jpg confirmed. 21:18 Krock but then I wonder why Win7 takes long to boot.. 21:18 Fixer my win7 needs 1:30 min to boot to usable state 21:18 Fixer week point is 1Tb 5400rpm hdd 21:19 Fixer don't ask why, my error 21:19 Fixer wanted 7200rpm, need to buy a new one for new space anyway 21:19 Krock about 40s here - without entering the password 21:19 tbillion http://raptorserver.co/public_html/?q=minetest <-- code that makes this :) -> http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u416/Travis_Gillespie/screenshot_20151205_151446_zpsbkngdjos.png 21:19 Krock (and also without BIOS :3) 21:20 Fixer hovewer, i've benchmarked it and it is quite fast, 2x fast as my old hdd, only seek times a lower 21:20 Fixer i mean worse 21:20 Krock pls.. finally replace all minetest.env: with minetest. 21:20 rubenwardy Capture the flag's chat is now on #minetest-ctf, irc.inchra.net! 21:21 rubenwardy Calinou, added chat and enabled sneak 21:21 Krock also, tbillion, 'cpos' is a global variable 21:21 Fixer i suspect that Avast causes most slowdown at boot 21:37 tbillion dont know what happened there guess i lost connection 21:37 Fixer guh 21:37 Fixer installed nvidia drivers and now having kernel_mode_trap bsod 21:37 Fixer g-d damned 21:47 Fixer lol 21:47 Fixer i'm sado 21:48 Fixer slap me 21:48 Krock "sado"? 21:48 Fixer i've reinstalled that driver just to assure it will BSOD 21:48 Fixer sadistic 21:48 Fixer it keeps BSODing 21:48 * Krock slaps Fixer a bit with a large trout 21:48 Fixer nforce-nvidia-integrated my ass 21:49 Krock I can reproduce a BSoD too.. simply by decreasing the Vcore too much 21:49 Fixer no overclock 21:50 Krock Currentoverclock at 804 MHz @ 0.85V :3 21:50 twoelk your ass is integrated??? I wonder how that sounds - er no - might not want to know :-D 21:51 Krock he has an ass-integrated nvidia card 21:51 twoelk uhm wrong slot 21:51 Krock the ass is mounted next to the heat sink 21:52 Krock you mean it should be inserted in another slot? 21:53 twoelk well - not the brwn lined one 21:53 twoelk might start stinking there 21:54 Krock no, I think they fixed that bug somewhen 21:55 twoelk with toilet paper? 21:55 Krock bingo. 21:55 Fixer nvidia nforce 630a 21:56 Krock nvidia ntoiletpaper 600+ 21:58 Fixer wth is Mac Lan 21:59 PenguinDad Fixer: Macaroni LAN? 21:59 twoelk eek put the apples away from the brown slot 21:59 Fixer nah 21:59 Fixer that's integrated LAN 21:59 Fixer BIOS description was crappy 22:00 Fixer i will be sadistic once more and install that driver 3rd time 22:00 Krock \o/ PenguinDad! 22:00 twoelk fixer goes sm 22:00 PenguinDad o/ Krock 22:00 * Fixer overwrites files 22:00 * Fixer extracting 22:00 * Fixer Next-Next 22:01 * Fixer installs 22:01 * Fixer BSOD 22:02 twoelk safe mode? 22:02 Fixer yes 22:03 Fixer will try older driver 22:03 Fixer 2 years old :} 22:03 Fixer i mean 8 years old, actually 22:04 rubenwardy Is the IRC mod known to make servers lag? 22:04 twoelk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfHzzy6T9to 22:06 Obani rubenwardy, I don't think so 22:07 twoelk iirc chat can lag all by itself 22:09 Fixer Sorry. The administrator has banned your IP address. To contact the administrator click here 22:09 Fixer guh 22:09 Fixer i see that message for like 10 years already 22:10 Fixer why on earth Anandtech forum banned my ISP from Ukraine 22:10 Fixer wth 22:12 rubenwardy strange strange server spam: http://pasteboard.co/2EFOTdOT.png 22:13 Fixer rubenwardy, it is not strange, it is damn kiddies 22:13 Fixer rubenwardy, install antispam 22:13 rubenwardy seems to be an ISIS referense 22:13 Fixer o.O 22:13 rubenwardy No mod called antispam? 22:14 LazyJ Things like that make me rethink my wish that Minetest had better copy/paste abilities. :/ 22:15 rubenwardy this is the best bit: 22:15 rubenwardy CTFBot, cmd xban 7u7hania7u7 22:15 rubenwardy Usage: /xban 22:15 Fixer people already copy-past a lot 22:17 LazyJ Most of the times that I wish for better copy/paste abilities in MT is when a non-english speaker is on the server or I'm on a non-english speaking server. 22:18 LazyJ It would be nice to be able to copy the in-game chat and paste it into Google Translate and vice versa. 22:18 Fixer older driver is working 22:19 LazyJ Not all MT servers have an IRC server or one that is piped into MT. 22:19 Blekpug Can I make bones go away? They are in my way. 22:19 Krock LazyJ, It it would be, at least in the F10 console selectable, it would be a huge help 22:19 Blekpug The come back after I mine them. 22:19 est31 Blekpug, thats because your inventory is full 22:19 est31 empty your inventory then the bones wont get back 22:19 est31 or open the bones like a chest 22:19 Krock thats because they are still new 22:20 est31 and remove the stuff you dont want 22:20 Blekpug Good call. full inventory 22:20 est31 or what Krock said 22:20 est31 fresh bones of other ppl cant be accessed 22:31 MinetestBot 02[git] 04susnux -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve LuaJIT detection 1370ece71 http://git.io/vRz8p (152015-12-05T23:31:09+01:00) 22:37 twoelk rubenwardy: http://i.imgur.com/v9by4Gb.png blinded by spam on just-test 22:38 Obani twoelk, nice one 22:38 Obani gtg 22:39 twoelk actually some even managed some ascii-art 23:00 Fixer twoelk, that's bad 23:31 Fixer damn, can't install ethernet driver 23:31 Fixer pure shit 23:31 * Fixer headdesks 23:34 Fixer looks like i need to reinstall XP again 23:34 Guest50531 why? it's depricated 23:35 Fixer 1gb ram PC 23:35 Guest50531 So...use Linux 23:36 Fixer it is for work, it needs some acc software, not for linux 23:36 Guest50531 it can't run through Wine? 23:37 hawksquawks hello 23:37 Guest50531 hwllo 23:37 Guest50531 hello 23:37 hawksquawks Any one with server experience here ? 23:38 asl97 hawksquawks: there are plenty of people with server experience here 23:38 asl97 if you have a question, just ask 23:38 rubenwardy yeah, just ask 23:39 hawksquawks Ideal I am currently setting up a server on ubuntu 15.10 Via command as it's a vps. I can't seem to find the latest stable build 0.4.13 for a PPA 23:40 rubenwardy I personally build it myself 23:41 rubenwardy As I use custom features 23:41 hawksquawks I see 23:42 Guest50531 https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable 23:42 rubenwardy I can only seem to find minetest 0.4.13 in PPAs, not minetestserver 23:42 Guest50531 ah 23:42 rubenwardy the "minetest" package may contain minetestserver though 23:43 rubenwardy you could just use minetest --server 23:43 rubenwardy but that'd be a bit overweight as an exe 23:46 hawksquawks Thanks I am going to try debian instead i here the latest is there if not i will try what you have suggested