Time  Nick          Message
00:41 SegFault22    Does anyone understand the purpose of builtin.lua in itest mod? It's kinda confusing
00:41 WindHero      itest mod?
00:42 SegFault22    IndustrialTest mod from ages ago. Nore was working on it, but now works on Technic
00:42 SegFault22    It's been abandoned and I'm going to use it to make a different tech mod
00:42 SegFault22    kinda
00:43 WindHero      If I were to guess...
00:44 WindHero      it looks like builtin.lua makes small changes to the regular placing, digging, etc. mechanisms
00:44 SegFault22    mkay
00:44 SegFault22    thx
00:45 WindHero      yeah, definitely to allow special functions to run when a itest node is dug
00:46 SegFault22    I think I'll just use the whole file in my experimentation for now, maybe change it up later
00:46 WindHero      don't see why it would hurt
11:43 jojoa1997     Hi
12:12 kaeza         mornings
12:12 sfan5         morning (it's 13:12 but who cares)
13:11 catninja_     morning! but it's 2pm here and soo dark
14:46 ziggy909      is there an adventuretest server?
14:47 ziggy909      it's a game, not a mod, does that mean you need the game files?
14:47 marktraceur   ziggy909: Clients automatically download files from the server on load.
14:48 ziggy909      for games too?
14:48 ziggy909      subgames*
14:50 rickmcfarley  it does for Lord of the Test, I think it should for others
14:52 Wayward_One   ziggy909, the game files are included in the download, if that's what you mean
15:17 MinetestBot   02[git] 04Sapier at GMX dot net -> 03minetest/minetest: Fixes for android 13083d19b http://git.io/U9lnWA (152015-01-06T16:13:39+01:00)
16:28 Peon501_      hi u have to fix stuff loading, when you look around, it lags when it loads, but if u high in sky u see more and it dont lag
16:37 marktraceur   Well formulated bug report.
16:38 exio4         marktraceur, it works but it doesn't but it also does
16:39 marktraceur   New issue: I don't have enough diamonds
16:39 marktraceur   Give me more diamonds please
16:39 marktraceur   But I don't really need diamonds
16:39 marktraceur   But still.
16:42 hoodedice     !seen Jordach
16:42 MinetestBot   hoodedice: jordach was last seen at 2014-12-23 19:16:47 UTC on #minetest
17:21 Sherghan      Hi
17:21 Sherghan      I'm fairly new to minetest. I've created a few worlds, but sometimes a world appears without trees. Is there a command I call (like say in chat or some kind of console) that would add a sampling to my inventory ?
17:22 Calinou       Sherghan, /giveme sapling
17:22 Calinou       /giveme sapling 10
17:22 Calinou       for 10 saplings
17:22 Sherghan      great
17:22 Sherghan      thx
17:23 acerspyro     Calinou: No saplings for you.
17:23 Sherghan      it works !
17:24 Sherghan      I've also heard there is a new type  of  tree - pine.
17:25 Sherghan      how to call a pine sapling?
17:25 acerspyro     Sherghan: give it a cell phone.
17:25 acerspyro     I'm feeling for bad puns today.
17:26 acerspyro     pine_sapling?
17:26 acerspyro     sapling_pine?
17:26 marktraceur   Isn't it in moretrees?
17:26 marktraceur   moretrees:pine_sapling maybe
17:27 Calinou       marktraceur, no, in default
17:27 Sherghan      ok, I got it
17:27 VanessaE      that reminds me, guess I'll need to make a minor change to moretrees.
17:28 Sherghan      giveme default:pine_sapling 10
17:28 Sherghan      it works
17:28 Sherghan      thx
17:30 acerspyro     Any important changes in Minetest lately?
17:32 acerspyro     also, minetest crashes if you start it while your wireless network is up, but there's no internet connection going thru it.
17:32 VanessaE      chedck the chagelog :P
17:32 VanessaE      -d
17:33 acerspyro     I am doing that
17:33 acerspyro     I see nothing interesting
17:34 PilzAdam      the changelog is only updated on new releases
17:35 acerspyro     PilzAdam: I am checking the Git changelog
17:35 acerspyro     Well, commit log
17:35 acerspyro     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master
17:35 acerspyro     This shit
17:35 VanessaE      I meant the real changelog
17:35 VanessaE      http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
17:35 acerspyro     oh
17:36 marktraceur   Ah.
17:36 acerspyro     slow to load...
17:36 VanessaE      it's a big page (that really should be split up)
17:37 VanessaE      maybe just move all the pre-0.4.10 stuff to another page or so.
17:37 acerspyro     Last time I played on the servers, what version was it?
17:37 acerspyro     About maybe a week ago
17:38 VanessaE      probably 0.4.10
17:38 VanessaE      oh, then 0.4.11
17:38 acerspyro     I was using git
17:38 acerspyro     so not much has changed.
17:38 acerspyro     I saw a big performance boost, but it is still very far away from what you would expect from a program that renders cubes.
17:38 PilzAdam      everything changed
17:38 PilzAdam      cubes are round now
17:39 acerspyro     lol
17:39 VanessaE      PilzAdam: well, apples are in dreambuilder ;)
17:39 acerspyro     "Cubes are subdivided in 16x16 for our pleasure."
17:45 rubenwardy    Hi all!
17:45 VanessaE      hi
17:46 acerspyro     I refuse!
17:48 Calinou       acerspyro, Minetest renders a lot of cubes and hacks around Irrlicht a lot
17:48 PilzAdam      Calinou, hacks?
17:48 acerspyro     Why use irrlicht if you gotta hack with it?
17:49 PilzAdam      Calinou, what hacks?
17:49 Calinou       because it'd work the same way with all other rendering engines
17:49 Calinou       no graphics engines are really made for that kind of stuff
17:49 Calinou       PilzAdam, ask in #minetest-dev
17:49 PilzAdam      Calinou, I ask you
17:49 Calinou       there are tons of CPU bottlenecks in general
17:50 Calinou       some of them probably can't be fixed
17:50 rubenwardy    PilzAdam, lighting
17:50 Calinou       the lighting doesn't take much to render
17:50 rubenwardy    Minetest doesn't render cubes, it renders a mesh which represents lots of cubes. Just to clarify
17:50 Calinou       what takes a lot is computing it
17:50 PilzAdam      rubenwardy, lighting is not done in a hacky way
17:51 rubenwardy    Lighting is usually done by shaders or hardware, rather than brighting or darkening textures.
17:51 PilzAdam      it's done by shaders in MT too
17:51 acerspyro     Also, it would be nice if MineTest would not render cubes it can't see.
17:51 rubenwardy    Wow.Since when?
17:51 PilzAdam      since shaders were added instead of using the fixed rendering pipeline?
17:51 rubenwardy    acerspyro, it doesn't. Frustum culling
17:51 rubenwardy    Except for underground caves
17:51 Calinou       in most games, lighting is brightening or darkening textures ;)
17:51 Calinou       acerspyro, it already uses occlusion culling since 0.3.1 (2011-11)
17:52 acerspyro     Calinou: Then why can you briefly see caves while mining?
17:52 Calinou       occlusion culling is disabled if your head is inside solid geometry, so it's transparent for the user
17:52 Calinou       because it isn't perfect?
17:52 Calinou       no OC system is
17:52 Calinou       perhaps it could be made more agressive, but then expect visible geometry to disappear
17:52 rubenwardy    I made a 3D rendering engine in Javascript and HTML5
17:52 rubenwardy    Today./
17:52 acerspyro     rubenwardy: Easy shit
17:52 rubenwardy    Admittedly, it's only wireframes
17:53 acerspyro     When you know where you're going*
17:53 est31         also when you go on a server to spawn and then to your home and enable full viewing range, you see spawn far away even if its 100% sure there is something in between
17:53 acerspyro     rubenwardy: Just scale and morph pics to fit vertices.
17:53 acerspyro     I did a 3D cube in CSS
17:53 rubenwardy    The hardest part was interpreting the wikipedia article on 3d projection
17:53 acerspyro     Animated and everything
17:53 rubenwardy    No, Canvas
17:54 rubenwardy    !g 3d projection wikipedia
17:54 MinetestBot   rubenwardy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_projection
17:54 Calinou       3D in CSS is possible, but an hack
17:54 acerspyro     a*
17:54 Calinou       Canvas + JavaScript is better
17:54 Calinou       but the ideal is WebGL
17:54 acerspyro     Calinou: It ran pretty smoothly in Chromium
17:54 Calinou       so that you use hardware acceleration
17:54 acerspyro     But it ran like shit in Firefox
17:54 Calinou       not all hacks are slow
17:54 PilzAdam      rubenwardy, what you probably meant was that we "hardcode" lighting into the mesh
17:54 PilzAdam      but that isn't hacky at all
17:55 Calinou       we don't use deferred rendering
17:55 rubenwardy    No, what I meant is I projected 3d points onto the 2d screen. I didn't use opengl, or any framework.
17:56 PilzAdam      rubenwardy, here, the lighting is applied in shaders: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/client/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_fragment.glsl#L109
18:01 rubenwardy    http://rubenwardy.github.io/html5_3d_projection/
18:01 rubenwardy    Calinou ^
18:02 rubenwardy    WASD, arrow keys
18:02 rubenwardy    https://github.com/rubenwardy/html5_3d_projection
18:03 rubenwardy    space, shift
18:08 PilzAdam      rubenwardy, now do proper rasterization!
18:10 rubenwardy    XD
18:23 tb01110100    is it possible to create a minetest mod that implements something like SEUS shaders in minecraft?
18:23 rubenwardy    Not a lua mod
18:23 rubenwardy    You can make in C++ Mod in the same sense as a Minecraft mod
18:23 rubenwardy    But you might as well contribute it to the source
18:24 rubenwardy    Minecraft mods are just patches the the main code. Minetest mods are plugins.
18:24 Krock         meow
18:24 rubenwardy    Hi Krock.
18:24 Krock         hi, did the world end without letting me know?
18:25 rubenwardy    Why would you think that?
18:25 Krock         I thought it would end today.. maybe I'm wrong
18:29 CWz           is buildbot broken?
18:31 Krock         depends if sqlite3 has been removed from src already or not
18:31 CWz           "../buildwin32.sh: line 79: cd: minetest: Too many levels of symbolic links"
18:36 sfan5         rubenwardy: weird things happen if you look up from inside the pyramid
18:36 rubenwardy    Yes
18:36 rubenwardy    Those are /0 errors, probably.
18:37 sfan5         CWz: i can reproduce your issue
18:37 est31         you dont have to look up for weird things to happen. being inside is enough
18:49 MinetestBot   02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix buildbot (was broken by 04a1a446cf845a0db80d39fd0e42771aa07e4492) 13efdb9da http://git.io/BYXcTw (152015-01-06T19:43:21+01:00)
18:49 sfan5         ^ CWz: fixed it
18:55 CWz           thanks :)
19:35 Calinou       cleaned up my mods
19:35 Calinou       fixed mg More Ores bug
20:52 russia_nekto  hi every1
20:52 russia_nekto  is anybody alive?
20:52 russia_nekto  i want to know how to make skins for menus in minetest?
20:56 marktraceur   Hi
20:56 marktraceur   russia_nekto: IRC is a very idle-heavy medium, you may need to wait :)
20:56 pitriss       russia_nekto: read topic.. "Responses may take a while, so be patient." and stop spam in dev channel. :)
20:57 russia_nekto  spam?
20:57 russia_nekto  too easy to call this spam
20:58 marktraceur   Not much we can do about that
20:58 marktraceur   Apart from put more letters in the word "spam"
20:58 marktraceur   spacaonsethnthqtnqhjurcuheolamoeum
20:58 marktraceur   Stop spacaonsethnthqtnqhjurcuheolamoeumming the dev channel.
20:58 russia_nekto  what core gives to players?
20:58 marktraceur   russia_nekto: What?
20:59 russia_nekto  beauty renders and gameplay . and thats all.
20:59 russia_nekto  core - what trying to do on dev channel.
21:00 russia_nekto  so i ask the core team to realize that
21:00 marktraceur   Coherently?
21:00 russia_nekto  and get "we dont care, move away".
21:00 marktraceur   Because I still have no idea what you're saying.
21:00 russia_nekto  hm
21:00 russia_nekto  ok another POV
21:01 russia_nekto  i want to tell to devs that minetest must have easy to use skin engine.
21:01 marktraceur   Fair enough
21:01 marktraceur   Did you open a GitHub issue?
21:01 russia_nekto  to let artist make beauty to minetest
21:01 marktraceur   Because that's how we say that things should be done.
21:01 marktraceur   You don't need to be flowery about it
21:02 marktraceur   "Hey it would be cool if we could customize the menus" should suffice
21:02 russia_nekto  ) no no you think pull request is all what we need?
21:02 marktraceur   I didn't say "pull request", I said "issue"
21:02 marktraceur   File a bug.
21:02 pitriss       russia_nekto: it is not so easy.. :) you need to take in mind that MT can run on multiple devices from PC to cell phones.. so.. I don't think that modable main menu is good idea
21:02 russia_nekto  no u a want make things simple)
21:03 LazyJ         russia_nekto, study VanessaE's "Dreambuilder's" interface for Unified Inventory and her HDX-64 texture pack.
21:03 russia_nekto  pitriss: i talk about skins not mods.
21:03 LazyJ         Both of those change menu appearances in Minetest.
21:03 LazyJ         Study them to see how it is done, then make your own changes.
21:03 russia_nekto  but different degree
21:04 pitriss       russia_nekto: yes. but still you can'ŧ change font size just because it must fit also on cellphone screen.. you can'ŧ use too wide images there and so on.
21:04 LazyJ         Bundle those changes into a small, limited, very specific texture pack, then share on the forums and GitHub.
21:04 pitriss       it is not so easy..:)
21:04 russia_nekto  the path of universal it not a path for MT.
21:04 marktraceur   russia_nekto: Back to not making any sense I see.
21:05 russia_nekto  dont get u
21:05 LazyJ         It's not easy communicating in a language that is not your own.
21:05 russia_nekto  yeah
21:05 marktraceur   True.
21:06 russia_nekto  just wait ) doesnt practice too much
21:07 russia_nekto  LazyJ: i dont want to dig to code. artist want to know where to place texture atlas and make test how it looks
21:07 russia_nekto  to see how it looks
21:07 LazyJ         russia_nekto, at Minetest's current stage of development, it is not ready for artist's ease.
21:08 russia_nekto  what drives a game forward?
21:08 LazyJ         The "art" is what players create inside a Minetest world.
21:08 russia_nekto  LazyJ: yes. i got this. and i walk to core team to tell them about this.
21:09 russia_nekto  LazyJ: player cant create gray art:)
21:09 russia_nekto  the player wants brushes to create art
21:09 LazyJ         Higher priority, at the moment, is to make Minetest run better.
21:09 russia_nekto  but there are too hard to make brushes(texture and skins)
21:10 russia_nekto  LazyJ: better than what?
21:10 marktraceur   I'm sure sculptors would disagree with your statement about gray art.
21:10 russia_nekto  marktraceur: we talk about plane screens.
21:10 russia_nekto  and players with mouse and keyboard.
21:10 * marktraceur is walking away now
21:10 russia_nekto  so sculptors are wrong in that context
21:11 LazyJ         Minetest is not ready for "themes" or "skins" like a web browser or a desktop background.
21:11 pitriss       russia_nekto: better than it is running now.. MT is atm painfully slow and can't handle too much players even on high end servers..
21:12 marktraceur   Yay singleplayer.
21:12 russia_nekto  LazyJ: yes i got it. but nobody wants css and html in MT UI.
21:13 russia_nekto  pitriss: what is "atm"?
21:13 LazyJ         russia_nekto, before artists can make Minetest beautiful, someone has to do the code work.
21:13 russia_nekto  LazyJ: yes! and that why i walk to core team , but here.
21:13 LazyJ         Only an artist would understand what the code needs to do, so Minetest needs an artist to make the code.
21:14 LazyJ         Minetest's developers are gifted programers, not visual artists.
21:14 russia_nekto  LazyJ: remember quake 1 ?
21:14 LazyJ         Their "art" is in the skill of writing code.
21:14 russia_nekto  LazyJ: yeah!
21:14 russia_nekto  and that why i start to talk for them about beauty!!!!
21:15 brothersome   Minetest needs threading and priority in its kernel
21:15 LazyJ         So, if you want beautiful Minetest, *you* have to write the code that allows that and help Minetest become what you seek.
21:15 LazyJ         Minetest is opensource.
21:15 LazyJ         It needs the help of many people of many different talents.
21:16 LazyJ         Those with code talent have gotten it this far.
21:16 russia_nekto  LazyJ: how about change priority of the core devs or interest them in that?
21:16 brothersome   I got it from github, I will search for those things that introduces the lags
21:16 LazyJ         Now those with art and code talent are needed to write the code to make Minetest beautiful.
21:16 russia_nekto  i have on simple idea. the more u have inspiration the more u create.
21:16 LazyJ         *But*... those artistic coders have not come forward.
21:17 LazyJ         russia_nekto, this is your opportunity to learn code to help Minetest become the "beauty" you seek.
21:17 russia_nekto  LazyJ: and they dont. they must route core team to do this.
21:17 LazyJ         What often seems to be a simple idea is not so.
21:18 russia_nekto  LazyJ: yea my. and i have a choice to get it through code writing or talking with people, uh?
21:19 LazyJ         The developers are hit with many wants and ideas and everyone expects the developers to do it all.
21:19 russia_nekto  nothings inspirite developer like a well known and populatiry of the product he creates.
21:19 russia_nekto  LazyJ: beauty is not a wants or some idea .
21:20 LazyJ         Instead of telling the developers what work they should do for you, help the developers by doing the work yourself.
21:20 russia_nekto  players eyes only see beauty and gameplay.
21:20 LazyJ         That is how opensource is supposed to work.
21:20 russia_nekto  no no. your opensourse thesis doesnt work well here.
21:20 LazyJ         Many demands, too few developers.
21:21 russia_nekto  its not about opensourse. its all about talking with people.
21:23 russia_nekto  more beauty player sees more players you have
21:23 russia_nekto  more players creates wants to have tuned server code.
21:24 russia_nekto  but 100 players never wants to have a super puper tuned server code
21:25 russia_nekto  they even doesnt know about each other :)
21:25 pitriss       russia_nekto: players want a lot of mods on server without lag.. so yes, they want super tuned server:)
21:25 russia_nekto  nobody want even to know the word MOD from players.
21:26 russia_nekto  its more easy. only beuaty and gameplay
21:26 russia_nekto  or as u sees the things:
21:27 russia_nekto  mods with no lags VS beauty with gameplay ?
21:27 russia_nekto  what will win?
21:27 VanessaE      russia_nekto: go try a Dreambuilder server sometime
21:27 pitriss       russia_nekto: mods without lags.. thats what affect gameplay
21:27 VanessaE      or download the game and play it locally
21:27 pitriss       when you will be not able to even dig smoothly graphisc part will be useless there
21:28 russia_nekto  pitriss: but why do u think that gameplay is there?
21:28 Ritchie       bugs in minetest has higher priority than some art in menu
21:28 russia_nekto  pitriss: u ever seen how kids play in minecraft?
21:29 pitriss       Ritchie: exactly..:)
21:30 russia_nekto  why diablo 3 was borned dead?
21:30 LazyJ         Ritchie, bingo!
21:31 pitriss       russia_nekto: you need to be able play to use graphics.. now, it is laggy, slow and really not comfortable to play.. it needs to be faster.. Do you even tried to play on some more populated server? Did you experienced blocks that you dig placed back due high lag?
21:32 LazyJ         ^^ and try to do all that with a high-res texture pack.
21:32 russia_nekto  stop stop
21:32 russia_nekto  not so fast
21:33 russia_nekto  i simply download minetest and try to play. nothing inspire me to go to play servers.
21:33 russia_nekto  because then u try minecraft and sees minetest beauty u dont want even play singleplayer
21:33 LazyJ         Then don't play Minetest yet. Wait for it to mature.
21:33 pitriss       lol.. minecraft? beauty?
21:34 russia_nekto  yes.
21:34 pitriss       where? in which galaxy?
21:34 russia_nekto  pitriss: in minecraft galaxy
21:34 LazyJ         Minecraft has Microsoft's billions of dollars. Minetest doesn't even have a budget for decent coffee.
21:35 pitriss       LazyJ: +1
21:35 russia_nekto  money changes nothing here
21:35 LazyJ         Heh. Try telling that to your landlord.
21:35 russia_nekto  money cant inspirite
21:37 russia_nekto  lets start from begining
21:37 russia_nekto  why core team does something?
21:37 russia_nekto  anybody knows a true?
21:38 pitriss       russia_nekto: lol.. ok again: code that skinnable menu or go to play beautiful minecraft.. there are no other options for you at the moment.
21:39 russia_nekto  the "move away" like a "opensource" so doesnt apply this words. they are nothing .
21:39 russia_nekto  pitriss: do u know the true?
21:39 pitriss       As many people here stated before.. Minetest have more serious issues than some "ugly menu" (which is not so simple as I like its simplicity)
21:39 LazyJ         We all would like to skin Minetest to our tastes, but right now, at Minetest's current phase of development, much work still needs to be done to make it function better.
21:40 LazyJ         It's like a building a new type of car.
21:40 russia_nekto  why do u think so ?
21:41 LazyJ         The beautiful interior and sleek styling are no good if the engine, frame, and suspension has yet to be created.
21:41 russia_nekto  u think that inspiration in core team enough to make @it function better@ even u dont know what inspiration is for them?
21:41 LazyJ         All you would have is a pretty, but empty, shell.
21:41 pitriss       russia_nekto: graphics part is not priority.. Imagine brand new chasis of ferrari with engine from lawn mover.. that is what you are trying to create
21:41 LazyJ         The core team creates the tools for others to build with.
21:42 LazyJ         Mods were not possible.
21:42 russia_nekto  pitriss: u mix things. u musnt.
21:42 LazyJ         The developers had to create the tools to make mods possible.
21:42 russia_nekto  LazyJ: and ? what it gives?
21:43 russia_nekto  what it gives to MT?
21:43 russia_nekto  popularity
21:43 russia_nekto  ?
21:43 russia_nekto  or what?
21:43 LazyJ         Skinnable interface is not a tool the devs have created yet because they are focused on bigger problems in Minetest's functions.
21:43 russia_nekto  problems?
21:44 russia_nekto  r u sure that devs have enought inspiration to resolve this problmes?
21:44 MinetestBot   02[git] 04Sapier at GMX dot net -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement X11 dpi autodetection 130f1d339 http://git.io/ObbOWw (152015-01-06T22:41:07+01:00)
21:44 LazyJ         Problems: memory leaks, language support, improved networking code, etc.
21:44 LazyJ         Sapier just added a small improvement.
21:45 LazyJ         Many little, but important, steps still have to be done.
21:45 LazyJ         The 'beauty' of Minetest will have to wait till Minetest can handle it.
21:45 russia_nekto  ok ok
21:45 russia_nekto  u cant get  the simple thing
21:45 russia_nekto  i try to explain
21:46 LazyJ         At the moment, lots of players get disconnected or their clients crash because the code isn't quite right for their operating system.
21:46 russia_nekto  what is the first egg or chicken?
21:46 russia_nekto  what was created first
21:47 LazyJ         russia_nekto, you might have more success if you spoke to the Russian developers or posted in the Russian threads of Minetest's forums.
21:47 pitriss       russia_nekto: no you still don'ŧ understand.. Without work of core devs.. your skin for main menu will stay in your ms paint for eternity
21:47 LazyJ         Several, non-Russian speaking people here have tried to explain to you as you have tried to explain to us.
21:48 LazyJ         But language is proving to be a large obstacle.
21:48 russia_nekto  pitriss: without inspiration core devs wont work.
21:48 LazyJ         I suspect pitriss has a point.
21:49 russia_nekto  and the main thing u dont know what inspirite them.
21:49 LazyJ         Then you have to inspire them, russia_nekto. You have to step up, do the work, and submit the code to make it possible.
21:50 russia_nekto  u hope that they can resolve problems. its just hope. nobody can guruantee that devs can to that.
21:50 pitriss       I'm giving up.. Discussing with someone who didn'ŧ even tested 20% of MT possibilities is pointless...
21:50 russia_nekto  LazyJ: you really think that only code changes thigns?:)
21:50 Ritchie       i have no problem with minetest main menu, it is simple, functional and fits into minetest style
21:50 russia_nekto  Ritchie: its not about problems:)
21:50 Ritchie       russia_nekto: you are the first person who came here with skinnable menu
21:51 Ritchie       why many players and developers didn't mention skinnable menu earlier?
21:51 russia_nekto  Ritchie: skinnable menu just a part of
21:51 russia_nekto  Ritchie: nice question
21:51 LazyJ         russia_nekto, create a painting *without* a canvas, without paint, without a paintbrush.
21:51 Ritchie       are you sure that every game has skinnable menu?
21:51 russia_nekto  Ritchie: and the main thing u dont know what inspirite them - this question like yours. but nobody knows.
21:52 LazyJ         Not possible. You need the tools to create the painting. For Minetest, those tools are the code.
21:52 Ritchie       is this important part for a project?
21:52 LazyJ         Without the code, no "paintings" are possible.
21:52 russia_nekto  LazyJ: what creates code?
21:53 Ritchie       answer to my question is that nobody needed skinnable menus
21:53 LazyJ         That is what you have to do, russia_nekto, create the code.
21:53 russia_nekto  Ritchie: its not about skinnable menu.
21:53 russia_nekto  LazyJ: why?
21:53 Ritchie       so what is this discussion about?
21:54 LazyJ         russia_nekto, from what you've described, what you want is not possible because Minetest lacks the code to make it happen.
21:54 russia_nekto  LazyJ: make something that force me to create code, please
21:54 russia_nekto  LazyJ: ok it lacks.
21:54 LazyJ         You've already made it yourself.
21:54 russia_nekto  LazyJ: i agree it lacks.
21:55 LazyJ         You want this "beauty"? *That* is the inspiration to make it possible.
21:55 LazyJ         You have to inspire yourself.
21:55 russia_nekto  LazyJ: there are more routes to achieve it
21:56 russia_nekto  LazyJ: i understand that your only route @making code@ :)))
21:56 LazyJ         Just another poet wanting someone else to write the poetry for them. (sigh)
21:56 russia_nekto  no no
21:56 russia_nekto  if i do , i will ask about some API for mods
21:56 pitriss       LazyJ: of course and for free..:D
21:56 LazyJ         My time has run out.
21:57 russia_nekto  you cant answer what makes devs to create the code
21:58 Ritchie       LazyJ: about MC's $$$ from MS, +1 too
21:58 russia_nekto  complaints makes them upgrade server code.
21:58 russia_nekto  but what makes them to raise populatiry of Mt?
21:58 pitriss       quality of code
21:59 pitriss       quality of code is what is best advert for Minetest:)
21:59 russia_nekto  i mean populatiry among players:)
21:59 russia_nekto  pitriss: lol))
22:00 pitriss       yes me to
22:00 pitriss       *too
22:00 russia_nekto  pitriss: print this advers on MT site and count players :)))
22:00 pitriss       because it means also modding possibilities, thus more diversity on servers..
22:00 Ritchie       how long someone want to look at a menu if he want to play on his favourite server(s)?
22:01 pitriss       because it also means that people can create their own games in quite easy way..
22:01 pitriss       thats all is about quality of code..
22:02 russia_nekto  Ritchie: its not about menu. i talk about beauty in MT visual style.
22:03 pitriss       lol, textrew packs are possible already..
22:03 pitriss       *texture
22:04 russia_nekto  pitriss: possiblities not means inspirations.
22:04 Ritchie       beauty is attitudinal term
22:04 acerspyro     I think I said it earlier today, but I'll repeat
22:05 russia_nekto  pitriss: the possibility to be a president is here. but u have no inspiration to be a president.
22:05 acerspyro     If you start minetest while being connected to a hotspot that has no internet access via wireless, Minetest crashes on startup
22:05 pitriss       lol: but core devs DON'T MAKE GAMES.. They provide tools for people to create their own games..
22:05 acerspyro     Core devs develop cores.
22:06 pitriss       russia_nekto: so your "inspiration something" is pointless.. Make your own game, inspired by what you want, do textures themed as you want..
22:06 acerspyro     Apple cores, orange cores, CPU cores, fission cores...
22:06 russia_nekto  pitriss: its a mistake to divide ppls like u do.
22:06 russia_nekto  pitriss: MT is not a commercial products .
22:06 Ritchie       NO
22:07 pitriss       russia_nekto: yes it isnt..
22:07 russia_nekto  pitriss: "move away  " not a route. disscussion is a route :)
22:08 pitriss       russia_nekto: and learn something about developement of programs.. then think, and maybe come back to discuss here.. Because core devs make tools for creating games.. nothing more..:)
22:08 russia_nekto  pitriss: so u cant force core devs to do only core code. anytime they can change mind and stop working .
22:08 Ritchie       core developers provide minetest engine and tools, modders creates mods, someone creates textures and texture packs
22:08 pitriss       MT is alive just because people make games and share them..
22:08 russia_nekto  really u see things like this?
22:09 russia_nekto  you divide , diviide and hopes it gives results?
22:09 acerspyro     Division by zero
22:09 pitriss       Devs only provide possibilities.. community provide games..
22:09 pitriss       thats how MT works.. You can't change that..
22:10 russia_nekto  u cant prove this :) what why u cant predict what will be with MT.
22:10 acerspyro     Fun fact: MT are my initials :D
22:11 pitriss       lol.. sorry pal, but you must be 10 years old kid..
22:11 pitriss       ..over and out..
22:11 russia_nekto  creating is all about insipiration. so i repeat my Q: anybody knows what inspirate developers of MT?
22:12 Ritchie       how it anybody can know?
22:13 russia_nekto  ask devs:) they knows
22:13 Ritchie       acerspyro: about crashes.. did you look into debug.txt?
22:13 acerspyro     Ritchie: It just tells me it can't resolve a hostname
22:13 russia_nekto  acerspyro: so type IP address:)
22:14 acerspyro     russia_nekto: No, it crashes before it even starts
22:14 Ritchie       acerspyro: it is weird
22:14 acerspyro     Try opening a wireless network on a connectionless laptop, and connect to that network with another laptop, and start Minetest
22:14 Ritchie       acerspyro: it should wait for timeout and then it should inform you with error
22:15 Ritchie       acerspyro: what version of MT are you using and what operating system do you have?
22:16 acerspyro     I was on Ubuntu, I had the Git version, about a week ago
22:17 russia_nekto  everyone who talks with me today send me to write code. they thinks that code changes things. but at the same time that ppls doesnt know what force developers work. is it strange ?
22:17 acerspyro     Reformulate plz
22:18 whatsupdoc    hey everybody how's the android port coming along? any recent breakthroughs?
22:20 Ritchie       whatsupdoc: hi, i don't have android so i cannot tell you anything but maybe someohe here uses android port
22:20 Ritchie       but i think android port is unofficial port (correct me please if i am wrong)
22:22 Ritchie       acerspyro: i know what do you mean with wifi network without connection to the internet
22:23 Ritchie       but i didn't met this problem yet
22:23 Ritchie       i can try it
22:23 acerspyro     That's because you never encounter local networks.
22:24 acerspyro     Here, we have two routers: A gateway, upstairs, and my router. I need a second router to plug all my computers in, and so that my parents can control my online hours just by unplugging the wire on their router, which leaves my router in local-only mode.
22:24 Ritchie       nope
22:24 Ritchie       i encountered many local networks
22:25 acerspyro     Ritchie: With no access to the net whatsoever?
22:25 Ritchie       but i knew them if that network are usable before i ran MT
22:25 russia_nekto  where is Vanessa that must told to your guys move to another channel :)
22:26 acerspyro     russia_nekto: ?
22:26 russia_nekto  :) dont get it?))
22:26 whatsupdoc    that ought to be reconsidered. android is one of the two most popular operating systems in the world. developers of this software in particular need to realize that and begin taking steps to make the …
22:26 whatsupdoc    …android port a 'first class citizen.' otherwise, we will be eternally plagued by ad-laden ripoffs in the play store.
22:26 acerspyro     Sorry, it's a real challenge for me to read bad english syntax :/
22:26 Ritchie       acerspyro: russia_nekto's blables are meaningless, nothing to find here
22:27 russia_nekto  acerspyro: so ? go and read:)
22:27 acerspyro     I tried :P
22:27 russia_nekto  i can understand everything u write, but u cant ?
22:27 acerspyro     "Where is Vanessa, who should have told you guys to move to another channel?"
22:27 acerspyro     russia_nekto: That's because my syntax is correct :P
22:28 whatsupdoc    it wasn't the first time
22:28 russia_nekto  acerspyro: u got sense) thats why u can write with correct syntax.
22:29 * acerspyro   feels bad about telling people about the quality of their English.
22:30 russia_nekto  acerspyro: be simplier:)
22:30 acerspyro     Meh, don't wanna.
22:31 Ritchie       acerspyro: i will try latest git client now
22:31 VanessaE      russia_nekto: the reason people tell you to "code it" is because you can't have art in a computer program without code to back it up.
22:31 VanessaE      you don't put graphics on the screen without having a rendering engine to paint them
22:32 acerspyro     VanessaE: What new channel was russia_nekto talking about?
22:32 VanessaE      acerspyro: he came into -dev asking all these general questions, I sent him here.
22:32 acerspyro     lol
22:32 Ritchie       VanessaE: please what do you think about acerspyro's problem? is this some problem in engine?
22:33 acerspyro     No, just something that the game aborts if it can't contact the DNS server when a network is up
22:33 russia_nekto  Ritchie: acerspyro must check tracert and after that talk about MT problems.
22:33 VanessaE      what'd I miss?
22:33 VanessaE      oh that, I have no idea :)
22:33 acerspyro     lol
22:34 acerspyro     I can't afford disconnecting myself just to test right now, but I will try to get you guys a backtrace.
22:34 Ritchie       i will try latest git client how it behaves with misconfigured wifi
22:34 russia_nekto  acerspyro: maybe u must call to microsoft ?:)
22:34 acerspyro     russia_nekto: I run OpenSUSE
22:34 VanessaE      Xubuntu here.
22:34 russia_nekto  acerspyro: so to call OpenSUSE
22:35 acerspyro     If I would call Microsoft, I would have to start off by asking them what's the record size of client fucking they achieved.
22:36 VanessaE      acerspyro: it's down by a few percent this past quarter ;)
22:36 acerspyro     lol
22:39 acerspyro     I stopped using Ubuntu, and my battery life extended, and performance magically increased.
22:39 acerspyro     How magic.
22:40 russia_nekto  VanessaE: you don't put graphics on the screen without having a rendering engine to paint them
22:40 russia_nekto  i know this
22:40 russia_nekto  or that
22:43 russia_nekto  VanessaE: answer what thing inspire u to do something for MT?
22:44 VanessaE      the fact that I just like to create things that other people can use
22:44 acerspyro     voxelophilia
22:44 VanessaE      and minetest is a good outlet for that.
22:44 acerspyro     I want to learn Lua someday
22:45 russia_nekto  VanessaE: and where u see how much ppl use the things u create?
22:45 VanessaE      I don't.
22:45 acerspyro     She doesn't
22:45 VanessaE      nor do I necessarily care.
22:45 VanessaE      however,
22:45 VanessaE      I do have a stats page for my servers:
22:45 VanessaE      http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html
22:46 acerspyro     VanessaE: If you want blocky apples someday...
22:46 VanessaE      it's how I track general health of the machine and the minetest server instances running thereon
22:46 acerspyro     I'll gladly make them for you.
22:46 russia_nekto  stats?
22:47 VanessaE      that ^^^ and the Minetest forum tracks views on topics (like any forum software does), but that's about as far as I go with finding out how interested people are in what I do.
22:47 VanessaE      acerspyro: no thanks :)
22:47 acerspyro     D:
22:47 acerspyro     I heard people saying that your servers lagged?
22:48 VanessaE      acerspyro: they do.  partly because the game itself gets slow at times, partly the machine is more heavily-loaded than it should be (as far as Minetest is concerned), and mainly the network is slow
22:49 russia_nekto  VanessaE: you inspirates from that your server do cycles in another words?
22:49 kaeza         greetings
22:49 VanessaE      russia_nekto: that statement does not make sense.
22:49 VanessaE      greetz, kaeza
22:50 acerspyro     russia_nekto: told you.
22:51 Ritchie       acerspyro: i tried it just now
22:52 acerspyro     And?
22:52 Ritchie       acerspyro: i did fresh git clone, compile, i wrote some minetest server addres (domain name)
22:53 acerspyro     Crash or no crash?
22:53 Ritchie       acerspyro: i configured network to have misconfigured dns server on my laptop on wifi connection
22:54 acerspyro     Yeah, same as me, the connection is pointed to 8.8.8.8, which is no longer accessible.
22:55 Ritchie       acerspyro: mt client properly run, tried to resolve domain name, timeout ran out and then mt client said error than couldn't resolve address: unknown name or service
22:55 VanessaE      O_o
22:55 Ritchie       8.8.8.8 should work, i will try it now
22:55 acerspyro     Try checking the public list checkbox
22:58 Ritchie       with checked public list checkbox it doesn't show any server and doesn't crash
22:58 acerspyro     weird
22:58 acerspyro     Thanks, I'll see myself and get a backtrace if it crashes.
22:58 russia_nekto  so/
22:58 Ritchie       try to run minetest from a terminal
22:58 russia_nekto  any resolution?
22:58 acerspyro     Installing freetype takes really long
22:59 Ritchie       it should write here reason why it crashes
22:59 Ritchie       in debug.txt should be something too
23:00 Ritchie       i only changed one thing in my network setup to simulate connectionless wifi - set dns server address to non existant in laptop config
23:02 Ritchie       i am using debian wheezy but i think linux distribution doesn't matter in that basic things, maybe if something has bad config..
23:03 Ritchie       acerspyro: " I need a second router to plug all my computers in, and so that my parents can control my online hours just by unplugging the wire on their router, which leaves my router in local-only mode."
23:04 Ritchie       acerspyro: router shouldn't be needed, maybe you mean switch
23:05 acerspyro     Ritchie: I need to have my own wireless network
23:05 Ritchie       wifi ap should be enough
23:05 Ritchie       or wifi bridge
23:06 Ritchie       but it should be set by someone experienced in networks to avoid problems
23:06 acerspyro     Me :P
23:07 acerspyro     There's no problem, my parents only have to unplug one single ethernet wire to disconnect both my laptop and tower.
23:09 Ritchie       acerspyro: i tried 8.8.8.8 as dns server just now and it works
23:09 marktraceur   acerspyro: Or just use the existing network, and they can block your devices' MAC addresses at certain times.
23:09 acerspyro     Ritchie: we'll get better results if we use the real environment.
23:09 acerspyro     marktraceur: ?
23:10 acerspyro     It's my network, it didn't block my laptop
23:10 n4x           oh, look, it's a bunch of cool people
23:10 n4x           how is it going minetesters
23:10 marktraceur   Where?
23:10 n4x           look at the mirror!
23:10 acerspyro     Mirror's cool.
23:12 MinetestBot   02[git] 04Sapier at GMX dot net -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix andorid build error 1342f3515 http://git.io/gK5yyA (152015-01-07T00:10:21+01:00)
23:15 Ritchie       cool is air outside of my house, everything is frozen there
23:15 acerspyro     here too
23:15 acerspyro     Slippery and dangerous
23:17 crazyR        MEET_BLOCK_NODE_METADATA_CHANGED  <-- what does that mean?
23:17 acerspyro     It wants you to meet a guy called BLOCK_NODE_METADATA_CHANGED?
23:17 acerspyro     Shitty guess
23:18 russia_nekto  it measn some ENUM
23:18 russia_nekto  peace of information :)
23:18 air           map edit event type = meet
23:19 air           https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/map.h#L59
23:19 crazyR        what i meanis if the server is continually dumping that to the log every 1-2 seconds, should i be worried lol
23:20 air           same block?
23:24 VanessaE      there is no "mostly".
23:25 acerspyro     It's a brainless sandbox game engine.
23:25 russia_nekto  for whom?
23:25 marktraceur   I dunno about brainless.
23:25 acerspyro     You need Lua programmers to give it a brain and a point.
23:25 russia_nekto  lol))
23:25 marktraceur   Oh, sure.
23:25 VanessaE      it's an equal mix of people who want to build stuff, people who want to fight, people who want to code, and people who want to...I shit you not ... find lovers :-/
23:25 * marktraceur is brainless.
23:25 marktraceur   VanessaE: I could have gone MY WHOLE LIFE without knowing that
23:25 marktraceur   BUT NO.
23:25 acerspyro     VanessaE: this is what Minecraft is about aswell lol
23:25 VanessaE      marktraceur: too late.
23:25 * marktraceur storms off
23:25 VanessaE      lol
23:26 VanessaE      I could have said it a LOT less delicately. :P
23:26 acerspyro     Because people have time to waste in sandbox games
23:26 marktraceur   #minesext
23:26 acerspyro     Since it's a lot of walking.
23:27 acerspyro     marktraceur: You can't be offended without a brain.
23:27 russia_nekto  and talking
23:27 VanessaE      why did I start?  I wanted to play around with redstone but without spending money on Minecraft.  so I found this + mesecons.  Now I write mods, maintain a game, a bunch of texture packs, and like 7 servers.
23:27 acerspyro     dead people talk
23:27 russia_nekto  money for minecraft?
23:27 acerspyro     I think I found MT in my repos
23:28 russia_nekto  where do you live?
23:28 VanessaE      sure.  Minecraft costs money, though I forget how much.
23:28 acerspyro     $30
23:28 russia_nekto  really?
23:28 acerspyro     yup
23:28 VanessaE      jeez, that much now? O_o
23:28 acerspyro     I have a MC account
23:28 russia_nekto  shit:) implaying for free
23:28 acerspyro     I bought it for $27
23:28 russia_nekto  up my server and play with my childrens
23:28 acerspyro     I wanted to be able to play online
23:29 VanessaE      russia_nekto: see, that's the thing - I don't pirate software.  I use only free software wherever possible.
23:29 marktraceur   Wasn't it $15 once upon a time?
23:29 russia_nekto  VanessaE: oh!!! we are using only pirate software:)
23:29 marktraceur   I think that's what I paid.
23:29 acerspyro     it was
23:29 acerspyro     russia_nekto: That's because you're russian!
23:29 acerspyro     Har har har...
23:29 marktraceur   Oh indev. You buggy piece of shit.
23:29 russia_nekto  yeah))
23:30 russia_nekto  but i can pay 30 buk
23:30 VanessaE      marktraceur: old version.  or freeminer?
23:30 russia_nekto  but i dont want play online)
23:30 russia_nekto  i want play homeonline :)
23:30 russia_nekto  i want like a Vanessa see stats on my server:)
23:30 VanessaE      no thanks.
23:30 VanessaE      not interested in Minecraft/.
23:31 russia_nekto  really?
23:31 VanessaE      really.
23:31 russia_nekto  minecraft doest give u felling of creating?
23:31 VanessaE      commercial software does not interest me at all.
23:31 VanessaE      Minetest can do everything substantial that Minecraft can do
23:31 VanessaE      and I can make it do more, myself, without having to hack the code or do something illegal.
23:31 russia_nekto  there is a Forge mod that makes a hole to other ppl who wants create in minecraft
23:32 Tiktalik      lieeeeees
23:32 Tiktalik      minetest can't do infinite worlds
23:32 VanessaE      Tiktalik: neither can minecraft.
23:32 russia_nekto  minecraft can:)
23:32 VanessaE      no, it can't.
23:32 russia_nekto  can
23:32 VanessaE      it just has a much larger world size limit
23:32 russia_nekto  i test it
23:32 Tiktalik      minecraft worlds are practically infinite
23:32 VanessaE      coords are 64-bit signed integers or some such
23:33 russia_nekto  it doesnt matter
23:33 Tiktalik      yeah, you know how big that lets you make your worlds?
23:33 russia_nekto  infinite in computer galaxy
23:33 Tiktalik      bigger than your hard drive can fit
23:33 VanessaE      minetest could do the same if the devs here cared to make it do so, but they don't see a reason to.
23:33 VanessaE      Tiktalik: same with Minetest.
23:33 Tiktalik      VanessaE: wait, seriously?
23:33 VanessaE      I calculated it once, it would take some 200 TB to fit a full minetest world if you managed to use every last block.
23:33 Tiktalik      i thought it was something like
23:33 Tiktalik      30000 in each direction
23:33 Ritchie       it's $19.95 and the same amount in €
23:33 Ritchie       so 19.95 €
23:33 acerspyro     We get Russian temperatures, with social benefits. We like to call it Canada.
23:34 VanessaE      Tiktalik: 62km cubed.
23:34 Tiktalik      that's pretty good
23:34 VanessaE      yeah
23:34 Tiktalik      and i guess it's unlikely that anyone's gonna go mining everything in a world
23:34 russia_nekto  minecraft creates a felling of infinitive world, minetest cant :) that correct
23:34 Tiktalik      esp. with how deep it is... so going further out for more resources isn't a concern
23:35 Tiktalik      eh
23:35 Tiktalik      okay
23:35 * Tiktalik    would still be happier with 124km cubed.
23:35 VanessaE      russia_nekto: minecraft worlds are not infinite. and you can't get any more "infinite feeling" than "too big to fit your hard drive"
23:35 VanessaE      both programs can theoretically make maps that big
23:35 russia_nekto  VanessaE: feeling infinitive
23:35 Tiktalik      VanessaE: but how big is the actual part of the world you want to explore (the upper crust)
23:35 ShadowNinja   russia_nekto: No.  You're not going to practically use all of a Minetest workd.  It would take like 100TB.
23:35 marktraceur   VanessaE: Indev was Minecraft in...2010? 2011? I'm not even sure.
23:35 marktraceur   It was tiny.
23:35 russia_nekto  all games about feeling something:)
23:36 acerspyro     Minetest has no vertical limit, does it?
23:36 VanessaE      Tiktalik: I'm not sure I understand the question?
23:36 marktraceur   acerspyro: The cube is the same all the way around
23:36 ShadowNinja   russia_nekto: On the contrary, MC has a very restrictive height limit.
23:36 russia_nekto  acerspyro: no. doesnt.
23:36 acerspyro     ok
23:36 marktraceur   x,y,z axes all have the same limits.
23:36 VanessaE      acerspyro: from ~ -31k to +32k, with the land centered at +0
23:36 acerspyro     None of that MC bullshit
23:36 VanessaE      er +31K
23:36 * y           ,x,z
23:36 y             :D
23:36 russia_nekto  VanessaE: new map format has bottomless option
23:36 VanessaE      russia_nekto: so?
23:36 marktraceur   I would /nick x but I know it's taken.
23:37 acerspyro     I want it topless too
23:37 acerspyro     I want MC bar strippers.
23:37 russia_nekto  VanessaE: it makes me feels infinitive :))))
23:37 marktraceur   What the hell.
23:37 russia_nekto  lol)))
23:37 y             marktraceur: no, it isn't taken
23:37 kaeza         y, U NO HUG??
23:37 marktraceur   It's not?
23:37 * y           hugs kaeza :3
23:37 marktraceur   Oh, it's registered but not guarded maybe
23:37 VanessaE      what does it matter?  the map can fill a hard drive.  all that is needed is better handing of the vertical parts of the map now.
23:37 marktraceur   Wait what
23:37 VanessaE      (since it's already been decided that it won't be made wider)
23:37 pitriss       http://pastebin.com/6F4GbGSK this is how sfan calculated MT world
23:37 y             no, x isn't marktraceur
23:38 Tiktalik      VanessaE: I mean, how big is the horizontal part
23:38 y             you can't /nick to it
23:38 pitriss       i had it stored
23:38 marktraceur   Lame
23:38 Tiktalik      though I suppose
23:38 Tiktalik      can you uh
23:38 Tiktalik      have a single character across multiple world files in minetest?
23:38 VanessaE      pitriss: wow, even bigger than I remember the calculation.
23:38 VanessaE      Tiktalik: not yet.
23:38 Tiktalik      hm, ok
23:39 marktraceur   But over half of that map is air blocks
23:39 VanessaE      Tiktalik: but there's nothing that fundamentally prevents it.  someone just has to decide it's worth the effort to code it.
23:39 Tiktalik      fair enough
23:39 marktraceur   Maybe you could compress the storage somehow
23:39 VanessaE      marktraceur: over half is un-generated, rather.  also don't forget floatlands and similar mods
23:39 marktraceur   Ah, yes.
23:39 VanessaE      marktraceur: leveldb implements some basic compression
23:40 VanessaE      does around...ohh... 1.5:1 or so
23:40 crazyR        hi guys is it possible to remove already registered buttons on the unified_inventory mod from outside of the mod
23:40 VanessaE      crazyR: I don't think so
23:44 crazyR        hmm shame i need to modify the home buttons due to a change in my game
23:44 crazyR        but i dont want to modify the inv mod itself
23:44 VanessaE      shouldn't you modify your game to work properly with the home buttons then?
23:45 VanessaE      they use the same file format as the standard sethome mod as I recall
23:45 acerspyro     There's no opensuse package for irrlicht...
23:47 russia_nekto  whyminetest doesnt allow D3D render?
23:47 VanessaE      it uses directyx
23:47 VanessaE      directx*
23:47 russia_nekto  where?
23:47 VanessaE      in the Settings menu
23:47 russia_nekto  on winfows set opengl
23:47 acerspyro     Does it?
23:47 air           acerspyro: dont use opensuse :)
23:47 VanessaE      on windows, yeah
23:47 VanessaE      on linux, opengl
23:47 acerspyro     air: not a solution
23:47 crazyR        the new home function within my game contains new features VanessaE
23:48 acerspyro     I'd have sex with opensuse
23:48 russia_nekto  on windows i cant select D3D from combobox
23:48 VanessaE      ...
23:48 russia_nekto  there is OpenGL , SOftware , burningvideo
23:49 russia_nekto  no D3D
23:49 acerspyro     wtf is burningsvideo anyways
23:49 VanessaE      russia_nekto: it would be DirectX, not D3D.  and if it is missing, well maybe your video driver is busted.
23:49 air           acerspyro: do you have a compiler?
23:49 acerspyro     air: are you seriously asking this
23:49 russia_nekto  my video driver runs every game on my HDD:)
23:49 russia_nekto  and all of them D3D
23:50 VanessaE      russia_nekto: turn shaders off then, maybe that's blocking access to DirectX.
23:50 air           acerspyro: you could manually compile a package
23:50 acerspyro     I could
23:50 acerspyro     but I'd rather look online for it first
23:50 russia_nekto  VanessaE: where ?
23:50 VanessaE      russia_nekto: Settings menu
23:50 air           does opensuse have the option to install other package managers, likt apt?
23:51 russia_nekto  VanessaE: no result
23:51 VanessaE      russia_nekto: try setting it in your config then
23:51 russia_nekto  only that 3 options
23:51 VanessaE      video_driver = directx
23:51 VanessaE      in your minetest.conf
23:52 VanessaE      if that doesn't work, then minetest can't use directx on your box
23:52 VanessaE      or maybe it's directx8, directx9
23:52 acerspyro     air: Nope, but there's a big collection of RPM packages out there
23:52 kaeza         direct3d8 *
23:52 VanessaE      AH
23:52 kaeza         (and direct3d9)
23:52 VanessaE      that's right
23:52 acerspyro     found it
23:52 VanessaE      derp
23:53 VanessaE      video_driver = direct3d8 or -9
23:53 russia_nekto  works) direct3d9
23:53 russia_nekto  but combobox doesnt know about direct3d9
23:53 russia_nekto  it shows empty item
23:53 Ritchie       air: opensuse has zypper, this is something like apt
23:53 air           acerspyro: what is this? http://software.opensuse.org/package/libIrrlicht1_8
23:54 acerspyro     This is it
23:54 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: Minetest compresses the big parts of the mapblock with ZLib, which brings air blocks down to something in the area or 20 bytes.  LevelDB aditionally does Snappy compression.
23:54 VanessaE      ShadowNinja: ok
23:54 VanessaE      russia_nekto: well there you go, but remember, no shaders in that mode
23:54 acerspyro     VanessaE: Why would one use D3D over OpenGL?
23:54 russia_nekto  VanessaE: looks the same
23:55 VanessaE      acerspyro: because they're masochistic? :P
23:55 acerspyro     Not surprising from a Windows user
23:55 VanessaE      russia_nekto: probably just not being used then
23:56 kaeza         D3D had better performance than OpenGL here (crap Intel GMA)
23:56 acerspyro     russia_nekto: why would you use D3D over OpenGL?
23:56 russia_nekto  checkbox = true on Shared in OpenGL, but it looks the same as in D3D
23:57 russia_nekto  acerspyro: kaeza right:) drivers for D3d works much better
23:57 russia_nekto  because D3d are king on windows:) because it has super puper dev tools :) and debug too
23:57 ShadowNinja   VanessaE: sfan's calculations assume about 78 bytes.  Less compressible Mapblocks can be over 16000 bytes though.
23:57 VanessaE      russia_nekto: then you're not really in direct3d mode, it probably defaulted back to opengl
23:57 russia_nekto  VanessaE: irrlight says it in D3d:)
23:58 air           printf is the only debug tool anyone should need
23:58 ShadowNinja   So those assumptions are pretty much for an empty map.
23:58 VanessaE      russia_nekto: your build of Minetest may not even HAVE direct3d support
23:58 kaeza         VanessaE, there's no "default back to opengl". it either works, or aborts
23:58 VanessaE      kaeza: hrm, ok
23:58 VanessaE      but his shadersa re impossible
23:58 VanessaE      are*
23:58 VanessaE      opengl shaders do not work in directx mode, period
23:58 kaeza         true that
23:59 russia_nekto  irrlight support d3d or opengl not MT
23:59 VanessaE      last I knew both had to.