Time Nick Message 00:47 Jordach http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRZTQPP13D3F108854 notbad.png 00:53 SylvieLorxu "Sorry, this app only supports MP3s" 00:53 SylvieLorxu To the trash with it! 00:54 SylvieLorxu I don't even have a single MP3... 00:54 Jordach you know where libLAME is 00:54 SylvieLorxu I don't have MP3 support 00:55 Jordach ooh 00:55 Jordach today is the release of 0.4.11 01:21 kaeza greetings 01:26 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Increase indentation throughout file for clarity. Correct mistakes. Shorten lines. Make more consistent 1303beb59 http://git.io/YMzsrg (152014-12-24T11:23:48+10:00) 01:26 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: State biome API heat and humidity noise parameters in positional format 134287480 http://git.io/biHViQ (152014-12-24T11:23:48+10:00) 01:49 Zeno` kaeza, is that checkbox bug still there? 01:49 * Jordach meows at kaeza 01:59 kaeza Zeno`, one sec 01:59 * kaeza purrs at Jordach 01:59 Jordach kaeza, seen the kitten mobs? 02:00 kaeza nope. link? 02:01 JS|Laptop Jordach, Please unmute me on #minetest from where you see Onez server it's me johnsen on laptop. i dont want any trouble 02:02 Jordach there 02:02 JS|Laptop Thankyou. 02:07 Jordach kaeza, http://youtu.be/BjtY-0ai9ZE 02:07 JS|Laptop Uh 02:07 JS|Laptop Im trying to join #minetest but it seems to not work 02:08 JS|Laptop Jordach i left #minetest and trying to join again but it is not working 02:09 gregorycu But you're here? 02:09 JS|Laptop Yes u left the other minetest 02:09 JS|Laptop Oh wair 02:09 JS|Laptop wait 02:11 JS|Laptop There much better 02:11 JS|Laptop here ill be afk 02:12 gregorycu The other minetest ey? 02:15 Zeno` yep "the other minetest" :) 02:18 kaeza Zeno`, lockup still happens 02:18 Zeno` this is not good :) 02:18 gregorycu How ya going Zeno, sorry about disappearing mid-chat about a week ago, internet fucked up, and then I went camping lol 02:19 gregorycu Is this still the windows bug? 02:20 Zeno` that's ok gregorycu 02:20 Zeno` kaeza, I got a Windows toolchain working... but wrong compiler! (ugh) 02:20 gregorycu Me too :( 02:21 gregorycu Um... we think this is a race condition, right? 02:21 kaeza Zeno`, "wrong compiler"? 02:21 Zeno` there is speculation that it is... but *shrug* dunno 02:21 gregorycu I'm guessing he, like me, is using visual studio 02:21 gregorycu Not mingw 02:21 Zeno` kaeza, yeah, I somehow ended up with "TDM" 02:22 kaeza the what 02:22 Zeno` tdm-gcc 02:22 gregorycu uh... wtf is that? 02:22 kaeza Zeno`, where did you get mingw? 02:22 Zeno` anyway I couldn't replicate with tdm. The other thing I did differently was compiled all the libs myself 02:23 Zeno` kaeza, I gave up installing MinGW and got Code::Blocks because it said MinGW was included (but it turned out to be TDM-GCC) 02:23 kaeza Zeno`, http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get/ 02:23 gregorycu TDM looks to be a package with mingw 02:24 Zeno` kaeza, are you going to be around for a bit? 02:24 kaeza yep 02:24 gregorycu Me too 02:24 Zeno` ok well I'll reboot into Windows 02:24 Zeno` may need directions :) 02:25 Zeno` ok 02:25 Zeno` link again please? 02:26 kaeza http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get/ 02:26 Zeno` This will be my 6th and final copy of MinGW hopefully 02:27 kaeza specifically, this one: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/latest/download 02:27 kaeza err... http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/mingw/Installer/mingw-get-setup.exe 02:27 Zeno` yep 02:27 Zeno` installing... 02:31 gregorycu kaeza, do you know what procmon is? 02:33 Zeno` I bet it's process monitor 02:33 Zeno` :D 02:33 gregorycu ;) 02:34 kaeza gregorycu, that looks useful 02:35 gregorycu What I'm hoping is that it will show an error that will hint at what's going on 02:35 gregorycu If it's a race condition 02:36 Zeno` Pretty sure it's a bit higher level than that, but worth a shot I guess 02:36 gregorycu Yeah 02:36 Zeno` Anything is worth a shot at this point. Even beer 02:36 gregorycu You think some XXXX is in order? 02:36 Zeno` well, not XXXX.. How about something tasteful :D 02:38 gregorycu Are you sure you're from queensland? 02:38 Zeno` Positive 02:39 Zeno` Apparently it's "Queensland's Beer" but I know of nobody who actually drinks it 02:39 Zeno` ok! cmake time 02:40 gregorycu Just like Fosters, being Australias beer 02:42 kaeza WTH 02:42 kaeza it does not lock up now under gdb 02:42 gregorycu Race condition 02:43 kaeza also, it's flooding the console with "warning: Invalid parameter passed to C runtime function." 02:43 gregorycu Heizenbug 02:43 gregorycu That could be... usual 02:46 gregorycu Wait 02:46 gregorycu Does it hang when it crashes? 02:47 gregorycu If it does, attach the debugger AFTER it crashes 02:47 kaeza it does not crash at all 02:47 Zeno` well, that may explain why I was not reproducing it using gcc-tdm 02:48 gregorycu I mean, when you're not attaching GDB to start off with 02:48 Zeno` I wonder if it's DEBUG builds in general or LuaJIT 02:49 gregorycu I better clarify, under any conditions can you get it to crash? 02:51 kaeza no, it is rock solid (that's new for MT) 02:51 kaeza don't understand what you mean 02:53 Zeno` grrr 02:53 Zeno` unit tests 02:53 Zeno` built! 02:53 Zeno` I told you it was gonna be 6th time lucky 02:53 kaeza lol 02:53 kaeza inb4 SIGSEGV 02:54 Zeno` have to rebuild. Forgot CURL support 02:54 gregorycu hmm... 02:56 gregorycu I may have found something 02:57 gregorycu I'm taking a look at serverlist.cpp 02:58 gregorycu There is no locking in that file 02:58 gregorycu However, two different threads use those functions 03:02 Zeno` sheesh, you'd better not fix it before I even get a working build considering I rebooted into Windows and everything! 03:02 Zeno` j/k :P 03:06 gregorycu Even if I found a problem, I can't be sure it's THE problem 03:16 Zeno` Does it have to be THE problem? 03:16 Zeno` Can't we just fix something random? 03:20 Zeno` umm kaeza 03:20 Zeno` I am not getting the lockup 03:20 kaeza huh 03:20 Zeno` the only difference I can think of now is the libs: I built them and didn't use sfan5 03:20 Zeno` s 03:21 Zeno` there was one I didn't build myself but that's all... it's in the issue 03:21 kaeza then it means one of sfan5's libs is busted 03:21 Zeno` I dunno, but my build works 03:22 kaeza but that's other problem 03:24 gregorycu Yeah, I can't trigger the problem 03:24 gregorycu With sleeps etc. 03:26 kaeza Zeno`, while you're on Windows, can you test sfan's build to see if you can reproduce? 03:26 kaeza (linked in the issue) 03:26 gregorycu Where is the build? 03:27 gregorycu I couldn't reproduce with that build, 32 nor 64 bit 03:27 gregorycu Good luck Zeno 03:27 kaeza so WTH is going on here 03:38 gregorycu kaeza: So, you can reproduce? 03:39 gregorycu If so, are you able to attach gdb after it's segved 03:39 gregorycu And then print the stack? 03:43 Zeno` I don't think it segfaults 03:43 Zeno` from the issue description it just gets stuck in an infinite loop 03:44 Zeno` but I can't get it to do anything unexpected. Probably the first time in a long time I wish it'd segfault lol 03:44 gregorycu We need kaeza to "breakin" and do a stackdump 03:45 gregorycu When it's happening 03:45 Zeno` yep 03:45 gregorycu Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be here, I don't know if he can repro or not 03:46 Zeno` At least I can build on Windows with all three compilers now 03:46 Zeno` :D 03:47 hmmmm what's the build this happens with? 03:47 hmmmm I'll try to reproduce it 03:47 hmmmm hopefully minetest will run in a vm 03:48 Zeno` hmmmm, umm... kaeza's build (is it on the forum?) 03:48 kaeza Zeno`, hmmmm, there's a build linked in the first post of the issue 03:49 gregorycu kaeza: Are you able to do a breakin and stackdump? 03:49 Zeno` Maybe I should try and make a build using sfan5's pre-built libs 03:49 kaeza this one https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30267315/Minetest/minetest-0.4.11-rc1-win32.7z 03:50 kaeza gregorycu, I have no idea how to use gdb besides basic stuff 03:50 gregorycu kaeza: Neither do I 03:50 gregorycu But it shouldn't be difficult at all 03:51 hmmmm 32 bit or 64 bit?? 03:51 gregorycu https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Attach.html 03:51 kaeza hmmmm, the issue on GH does not specify which; I have 32 bits here 03:52 gregorycu And then https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Backtrace.html#Backtrace 03:52 hmmmm you were able to repro with that? 03:52 kaeza yeah 03:52 hmmmm what is the chance of success in reproducing do you observe? 03:53 hmmmm is it like 1 in 20? 03:53 kaeza 100% 03:53 kaeza (it is fixed as specified in the issue by entering a SP world and leaving) 03:54 hmmmm so if it works for me the first time, I shouldn't have a problem reproducing it after that 03:55 hmmmm woot 03:55 gregorycu ! 03:55 hmmmm OpenGL Warning: VBoxCrHgsmiCreate failed 03:56 gregorycu Well, is it fucked? 03:57 Zeno` the old VBoxCrHgsmiCreate failed bug, huh 03:57 hmmmm i just check the public serverlist checkbox, right? 03:57 gregorycu Start game, click that checkbox, try and start SP game 03:57 hmmmm well regardless I found another unrelated bug 03:57 kaeza hmmmm, yeah, but it locks up before showing the mainmenu if you have public_serverlist = true in .conf 03:57 kaeza (it also*) 03:57 hmmmm remind me: fix tab_server.lua:119 attempt to index local 'world' (a nil value) 03:59 hmmmm lol 03:59 hmmmm well it runs like shit but it actually runs in-game 04:00 kaeza random: could it be related to number of CPUs? 04:00 hmmmm yeah I'm not able to reproduce it at all 04:00 gregorycu How many CPU's you ahve kaeza? 04:00 hmmmm i'm assuming the GetDirListing() issue in that build was fixed?? 04:00 kaeza I have a dual core here. AFAIK both you and Zeno` have something like octocores or something 04:01 gregorycu hmmmm: It's getting discussed in #minetest-dev 04:01 kaeza err quadcore 04:01 gregorycu 4 cores for me 04:01 hmmmm ugh 04:02 hmmmm cranking it up to 4 cpus.. 04:03 hmmmm odd, windows isn't seeing the multiple cores 04:03 gregorycu A single backtrace would be amazing 04:04 kaeza gregorycu, I'm not sure how could I get a BT given that it doesn't segfault, and I'm not sure where to break either 04:05 gregorycu What does it do? 04:05 gregorycu Just get stuck? 04:05 kaeza yes 04:05 gregorycu When it gets stuck, backtrace is then 04:05 gregorycu it 04:05 gregorycu So, start the thing 04:05 gregorycu Repro the bug 04:05 gregorycu Then start gdb 04:05 gregorycu Attach to the process, and then break 04:05 gregorycu And then bt 04:06 hmmmm you ctrl+c in the debugger 04:06 hmmmm it'll break and then you do a bt full 04:07 gregorycu The reason I really want you to do this is you're the only one that can repro, if you tell us what the stack looks like, we can narrow it down greatly 04:13 kaeza I'm not able to get a useful backtrace from attaching 04:13 kaeza #0 0x77583541 in ntdll!DbgBreakPoint () from C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll 04:13 kaeza #1 0x775ed279 in ntdll!DbgUiRemoteBreakin () from C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll 04:13 kaeza :/ 04:13 hmmmm kaeza, try thread apply all bt full 04:14 hmmmm you're attaching after it already froze?? 04:15 hmmmm start it from within the debugger and then break when it freezes 04:16 gregorycu He can't repro with gdb attached 04:16 hmmmm o 04:16 gregorycu Why can't he attach and break? 04:16 hmmmm he can, but he's getting useless backtraces 04:17 gregorycu I don't know enough about gdb, but he shouldn't be... 04:17 kaeza if MT is run directly from gdb it does not freeze 04:17 kaeza hmmmm, https://gist.github.com/kaeza/a631fd73040bf77a02ab 04:18 hmmmm lol it doesn't give you any backtrace information above system library calls 04:19 gregorycu ... 04:20 gregorycu It's like it's deliberately being an arsehole 04:22 hmmmm maybe we can make educated guesses and add print statements around where we suspect might be the problem 04:22 hmmmm watch this make it not freeze^ 04:23 gregorycu So do we know why gdb is not being that helpful? 04:23 hmmmm well it doesn't have anything to do with having symbols or not having symbols 04:24 hmmmm above the system libraries the RA is 0 or 0x0000321 or something like that 04:24 hmmmm it's having issues with unwinding the stack for whatever reason... i'm inclined to believe it's merely gdb retardation 04:25 hmmmm can he try windbg or visual studio's debugger instead? 04:25 hmmmm or ollydbg perhaps :-) 04:26 gregorycu I would have suspected gdb would have been the best bet considering it was built with the mingw toolchain 04:32 gregorycu kaeza: Can you paste your minetest config somewhere 04:39 kaeza https://gist.github.com/kaeza/d438aa47aeabdfbdd62b 04:42 gregorycu Thanks 05:05 hmmmm can confirm the missing stack frames are GDB retardation. 05:05 hmmmm ollydbg does not have this issue 05:06 hmmmm kaeza: if you're still there, try using ollydbg to get a backtrace 05:06 gregorycu I gotta admit, I'm a little excited to find out what it is 05:07 hmmmm sapier has made lots of bugs like this before :) it's probably a race condition on accessing globals 05:08 gregorycu Why isn't he the one debugging this :P 05:08 hmmmm he takes breaks from minetest for a while and then dips back in with rather high intensity 05:08 hmmmm makes a flurry of super productive commits and then disappears 05:08 gregorycu hmmmmm 05:08 gregorycu Urgh, not you 05:08 gregorycu Just thinking 05:08 hmmmm i'm the same way though 05:09 hmmmm my life hasn't been extremely busy though 05:09 gregorycu Yeah, but it sucks when you create bugs 05:09 hmmmm so minetest it is 05:09 gregorycu What parts of minetest do you work on 05:10 hmmmm mapgen 05:10 gregorycu I want to get into the modapi 05:10 gregorycu While making a mod 05:10 hmmmm well that's not very interesting 05:11 hmmmm everybody is into the modding api in the sense that whenever they add a feature to whatever their domain is, they have to add an api for it 05:11 gregorycu Indeed 05:11 gregorycu Ironically that's my job at my real job 05:11 gregorycu I'm an architecture dude 05:12 gregorycu Gotta provide features that people want 05:12 gregorycu Without them getting too specific 05:13 gregorycu What's the difference between a tool and a craft item? 05:14 gregorycu Apart from the fact that a craftitem can't have wear 05:14 hmmmm i have no idea 05:14 gregorycu Not your domain :P 05:15 hmmmm i never even made a mod :/ 05:18 gregorycu Tools don't stack by the way 05:19 hmmmm that's it? 05:19 hmmmm that should not be the distinction between tools and items 05:19 hmmmm that should be a parameter, "max stack" 05:20 hmmmm that's how minecraft does it anyway... so you have some really "advanced" items that are allowed one item per stack, and then some "better than average item" that only allows 16 per stack, etc. 05:20 gregorycu I'm beginning to think the distinction is useless 05:20 gregorycu Or rather, arbitrary 05:21 hmmmm haha lots of things are like this 05:22 hmmmm there are constructs technically very close yet distinct because of historical reasons and then whatever distinguishing features were removed or shifted somewhere else 05:22 hmmmm and then nobody merged them 05:22 kaeza hmmmm, I'm getting a more useful BT, but all the symbols are in hex like `minetest.CAFEBABE` 05:22 hmmmm kaeza: that's because you don't have the symbols loaded 05:23 hmmmm which you won't have if that's a release build you're running 05:23 kaeza it's a debug build 05:23 hmmmm oh sweet 05:24 kaeza running MT directly from ollydbg eliminates the freeze like in gdb, and attaching to the process just gives that 05:24 hmmmm maybe you could go to those raw memory addresses in the disassembler window and check for some telltale strings and match the function that way 05:25 kaeza I've tried running `nm` grepping for the addresses 05:25 hmmmm hrmm, not sure why it's not reading the debug symbols since they're included in the executable 05:25 gregorycu We are slowly making kaeza a developer 05:25 kaeza this will take a while... 05:26 kaeza hmmmm, does ollydbg support whatever debug info format gcc output? 05:26 kaeza +s 05:26 gregorycu Where did you get the build from? 05:26 kaeza self-built 05:26 hmmmm it should.. 05:27 hmmmm yup basically you're right 05:27 hmmmm ollydbg will only read symbols generated with msvc 05:28 gregorycu lol 05:28 gregorycu That's alright 05:28 gregorycu Can we get a .map file 05:28 gregorycu Is .map gcc or msvc 05:28 hmmmm I think msvc 05:29 gregorycu Looks like gcc too 05:29 hmmmm oh cool 05:29 gregorycu Anyway, a .map file contains a mapping between symbols and addresses 05:29 gregorycu If we generate the map file, we can cross reference manually the addresses to the symbols 05:30 hmmmm gotta rebuild it with -Map=output.map 05:30 hmmmm rather -Xlinker -Map=output.map 05:30 gregorycu We are getting closer 05:58 Zeno` gregorycu, just to distract you... are you able to create a new world? 05:58 gregorycu Yes 05:58 gregorycu v6 minetest ? 05:59 * Zeno` sighs a big sigh of relief 05:59 Zeno` anything 05:59 Zeno` v6 is fine :) 05:59 gregorycu Yep 05:59 Zeno` thank @*$(@*$( 05:59 gregorycu Just did it then 05:59 Zeno` I am doing something wrong :) 05:59 Zeno` Which is good (obviously) 06:00 Zeno` It's been so long since I've used Window maybe I don't even have write permissions where I think I should 06:00 gregorycu Wait 06:02 gregorycu ERROR[main]: ServerMap::loadMapMeta(): could not open C:\Users\Greg\Documents\Visual Studio 2013\Projects\minetest\Release\..\worlds\Fun1\map_meta.txt 06:02 gregorycu That error displays itself, but everything seems to play fine 06:02 Zeno` yeah, but it should continue? 06:02 Zeno` Yep, that is known 06:02 Zeno` cool. Thanks 06:02 gregorycu ok 06:02 gregorycu Good 06:03 gregorycu And when I delete it, GetDirListing: FindFirstFile error. Error is 267. 06:03 gregorycu A stack of them in the console 06:03 gregorycu it = world 06:04 Zeno` Yeah, SN has a patch for that 06:05 gregorycu Ok 06:05 Zeno` If you test he can merge 06:05 Zeno` http://sprunge.us/CJYZ?diff 06:05 Zeno` I'd test but I can't even create a new world :/ 06:08 gregorycu Yep, no more errors 06:09 gregorycu Want me to thumbs up it somewhere? 06:18 Zeno` yep 06:19 someguy_irc yo Zeno` 06:20 Zeno` hiya ;) 06:23 someguy_irc grrrr 06:25 gregorycu He'll be back soon 06:32 someguy_irc okay. 06:33 someguy_irc !tell Zeno` you know I / MTZ-Basic misses Mesecons ;~; 06:33 MinetestBot someguy_irc: I'll pass that on when Zeno` is around 06:33 ThatGraemeGuy mesecons are too advanced for basic :p 06:34 someguy_irc sorta but a new spark of opportunity. 06:34 gregorycu What is Mesecons? 06:34 kaeza hmmmm, the stack on ollydbg is the same as on GDB, except for some calls to JSemaphore::WaitEv 06:34 someguy_irc Redstony in Minetest i.e Mesecony 06:35 ThatGraemeGuy on VE-Survival cheapie has just laid a cable to the ziggurat Bluebird is building 06:35 someguy_irc O.O 06:35 kaeza I can provide copypaste of the various threads' stacks and map file if desired 06:35 ThatGraemeGuy because ancient mesopotamia totally had nuclear power :) 06:35 gregorycu kaeza: Yes, please do that 06:35 gregorycu Maybe there should be a mintest_advanced 06:35 gregorycu minetest 06:36 ThatGraemeGuy there is 06:36 ThatGraemeGuy it called "use minetest_game and add the mods you want" 06:37 ThatGraemeGuy or use dreambuilder and go completely nuts with options 06:37 gregorycu Yeah... 06:39 kaeza gregorycu, hmmmm, call stacks: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/8620775e7d028fb3b793 | map file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a6asfmo9qsyzg64/debug.map.gz?dl=0 (~450KB) 06:39 gregorycu Thank you 06:46 gregorycu So, a lot of threads are waiting, that's to be expected 06:46 gregorycu You have intel graphics 06:46 kaeza yep 06:47 gregorycu This looks opengl related, are you able to test with direct3d 06:49 kaeza nope 06:49 gregorycu No? 06:50 kaeza both sfan's build and mine are built without D3D support 06:50 kaeza (actually, Irrlicht) 06:50 gregorycu What about software? 06:51 kaeza huh 06:51 gregorycu Software rendering 06:51 kaeza indeed it does not lock up with SW driver... 06:51 gregorycu This looks to be something to do with intel's opengl driver 06:51 gregorycu I don't know what, but it's a start 06:52 gregorycu Are you able to paste details of your driver? 07:00 kaeza not sure if this is enough: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/930247fcfd6ca9781e2e 07:00 gregorycu No that's good 07:01 gregorycu So, in summary, we have a setting related to public server lists causing glBegin to hang 07:01 gregorycu Fuck me 07:02 gregorycu I need someone who understands how the graphics works here 07:04 hmmmm huhh? 07:04 hmmmm glBegin isn't the problem 07:05 gregorycu Why not? 07:05 hmmmm how is it even possible 07:05 hmmmm seems like a red herring 07:05 gregorycu Look at the callstacks 07:05 gregorycu Who can repro, and who cannot 07:05 gregorycu And what are the graphics cards of these people? 07:05 gregorycu I have an ATI, can't repro 07:06 gregorycu (bb in 20 min) 07:06 hmmmm the threads we're looking at are 0001280, 00000bb4, 0000838, and 00001e4 07:07 hmmmm glBegin was calle from Irrlicht.69F8A1BF whatever that is 07:07 hmmmm that's the main thread... is it the main thread freezing that's the issue? 07:11 hmmmm if i had the assembly output of those offsets i would probably figure out the call stack faster than i would trying to figure out how to manually apply a .map file to offsets 07:14 hmmmm oh yay this was easier thani thought 07:19 gregorycu Those 4 threads are waiting for work 07:19 gregorycu The main thread (assuming it's not spinning) looks stuck 07:19 hmmmm well I think that's the cause of the freeze 07:19 hmmmm they're all waiting for work 07:20 gregorycu There is nothing wrong with that 07:20 hmmmm but who's the producer 07:20 hmmmm i feel like this is missing a huge chunk of the call frame 07:20 hmmmm all of them are just calls to JSemaphore::Wait() 07:20 gregorycu I don't know, but presumably the main thread sets it up after it's initialised the graphics 07:21 gregorycu Shit 07:21 gregorycu glBegin is a drawing function 07:21 gregorycu Not an initialisation function 07:21 hmmmm in any case I can't find 0x00409B64 in the map file 07:22 hmmmm it would really be a lot quicker if we just looked at the disassembly at that address 07:22 hmmmm kaeza, could you send me that exact binary you were using? 07:22 kaeza hmmmm, one sec 07:23 hmmmm oh durr 07:23 hmmmm those JSemaphore::Waits are all called from AsyncEngine::getJob() 07:23 gregorycu Job is just a task right? 07:23 hmmmm it's some sapier thing 07:23 gregorycu lol 07:23 hmmmm oh duh 07:24 gregorycu "some sapier thing" 07:24 hmmmm no wonder why I couldn't find that address in the linker map 07:24 hmmmm it's some function + an offset 07:24 kaeza hmmmm, just the binary or the entire thing? 07:24 hmmmm just the minetest.exe 07:27 kaeza it will take a while with this crappy connection; the zip is 22M (82M unzipped) 07:27 hmmmm incredible 07:28 gregorycu huh? 07:28 hmmmm ehm 07:28 hmmmm nevermind that 07:28 hmmmm it's only called from one place 07:29 hmmmm so we have these 4 AsyncWorkerThreads that are doing nothing and the only other thread that can produce things is busy rendering 07:30 gregorycu hmmm... 07:30 gregorycu We should be expecting more threads 07:30 hmmmm indeed 07:30 hmmmm MAINMENU_NUM_ASYNC_THREADS == 4 07:31 gregorycu No 07:31 gregorycu I mean, we should be expecting those dudes to Die 07:31 gregorycu And get joined against the main thread 07:31 hmmmm don't see why 07:31 gregorycu And new threads to get spawned for the game 07:31 hmmmm they just keep going on until stop is requested 07:31 gregorycu ServerThread, ConnectionSend, ConnectionRecieve threads etc. 07:31 hmmmm which is in the AsyncEngine dtor 07:32 gregorycu Should be 7 threads 07:32 gregorycu And a few ntdll ones 07:32 hmmmm those don't exist until the IGameDefs are created 07:33 gregorycu So, this is happening before those async threads are getting joinde 07:33 hmmmm they get joined when the game starts 07:34 gregorycu So this is happening before the game starts :P 07:34 hmmmm obviously 07:34 hmmmm this is probably completely obvious to the person who wrote it :p 07:34 gregorycu Hey, I like to be explicit 07:37 gregorycu ... 07:38 gregorycu AsyncEngine::~AsyncEngine() smells 07:43 gregorycu I have an especially bad feeling about line 109 and 110 of jthread.h 07:44 hmmmm what of it 07:44 hmmmm in any case, that's definitely not related to the issue we're observing 07:46 gregorycu I'm not so quick to discount it 07:48 gregorycu Actually we probably can 07:48 gregorycu I really wish people wouldn't optimise stupid shit that has no impact on performance 07:49 gregorycu I'm not sure destroying threads has to be lockfree 07:56 kaeza hmmmm, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/minetest.zip 07:57 Zeno` I am guessing kaeza does not want to sleep 07:57 kaeza hope that helps; pushing that through a 256kbps pipe is not exactly...uhh, fast 07:58 gregorycu How quickly do you get the server list from the server? 07:58 kaeza gregorycu, most of the time it just times out 07:58 gregorycu hmm... 07:59 gregorycu That is worth simulating 07:59 kaeza ...should've said that before, right? 07:59 gregorycu It's something I meant to check 07:59 kaeza Zeno`, was waiting for that upload to complete. I'll soon be off 07:59 Zeno` :) 08:00 Zeno` kaeza, but... you don't really need sleep 08:00 Zeno` not for at least 2 weeks anyway 08:00 Zeno` after that you kind of go crazy 08:00 kaeza I have to "get up" in 2 hours :/ 08:00 gregorycu curl 08:00 Zeno` for work? 08:01 kaeza yep 08:01 * Zeno` is glad he is not in kaeza's shoes :/ 08:01 gregorycu Work sucks 08:01 gregorycu I can't work with anything less than 6 hours 08:01 gregorycu I call in sick 08:02 kaeza I should complain to my boss. he's a real bastard 08:02 kaeza in an unrelated topic, I'm self-employed 08:03 gregorycu You bastard! 08:03 * Zeno` goes and looks at the first bad commit again 08:11 kaeza okay, I'm off for today. good night all 08:11 gregorycu Goodnight and thank you for the help 08:11 kaeza sure :) 09:28 carbust does anyone sleep at nights? 09:33 Krock yes. 09:34 Calinou it is not night here right now :) 09:34 Krock ^ 09:35 Krock although, I didn't sleep much this night :( 09:38 gregorycu I don't sleep 09:38 gregorycu I can sleep when I'm dead 09:38 Krock ok 09:38 redstonecraftPL hi, any idea why minetest freezes on joining to server? 09:39 redstonecraftPL I try to join VanessaE survival 09:39 Krock redstonecraftPL, try to join VE realtest and you'll wait for 10 minutes and get an avvess violation after that 09:39 Krock *access violation 09:40 Krock or with some luck, you can join the server and lag out only 30s after joining 09:40 * Krock 's perspective 09:41 redstonecraftPL so JUST TRY JOINING? 09:41 redstonecraftPL i have better idea 09:41 Calinou you have to be patient for data downloa 09:41 Calinou +d 09:41 Krock yeah. check if the server is online first 09:41 Calinou however, some builds are buggy 09:41 Calinou which operating system do you use? which build? 09:42 gregorycu Out of interest, what do you guys work on? 09:42 redstonecraftPL newest, 32bit, this left 09:42 redstonecraftPL lets try this right 09:43 Krock gregorycu, nothing. I've holidays those days. 09:43 Calinou newest, 0.4.10 or a daily build? 09:43 Calinou Windows? 09:44 redstonecraftPL yep, win32. On debian 64 bit it works fine xD 09:44 sfan5 Zeno`: i could no reproduce the freezing issue with the win64 build 09:45 redstonecraftPL But this is 32bit 10:16 Zeno` sfan5, I can't reproduce it either. This is terrible :) 10:27 Krock Aargh. A 1:17 min video takes 15 minutes to upload >.< 10:27 Krock only 22 MB, c'mon.... 11:05 TriBlade9 Merp 11:05 redstonecraftPL ? 11:06 TriBlade9 Just droppin in 11:06 TriBlade9 Merry Christmas Eve! 11:06 redstonecraftPL thx 11:59 karamell how to disable whisper? 11:59 mitrom Talk louder 12:00 mitrom rm -fr 12:00 mitrom it's rf ... 12:01 mitrom my space bar is rather flappy right now 12:03 exio4 mitrom, -fr works too 12:03 exio4 rm -r -f == rm -f -r == rm -rf == rm -fr 12:05 mitrom yup 12:07 SylvieLorxu "rm -fr" sounds like "remove french" 12:08 exio4 I wouldn't use -fr, it would be like using -de! 12:08 gregorycu If only we could 12:08 gregorycu If only we could 12:08 SylvieLorxu rm -gregorycu 12:09 mitrom lol 12:10 gregorycu I'm back 12:11 Zeno` 2 hours until Christmas! 12:11 gregorycu 1 hour 12:12 gregorycu You idiot 12:12 mitrom what 12:12 Zeno` 1? 12:12 mitrom are you high 12:12 gregorycu Can't you count 12:12 gregorycu Yes 12:12 Zeno` ok, 1 hr 53 minutes until Christmas! 12:12 gregorycu It's 11PM where I am, in Melbourne 12:12 gregorycu 11:12PM to be exact 12:12 exio4 worst day of the year* 12:12 exio4 also, over here, it is just 9am 12:12 Zeno` yeah well, Melbourne has a bug 12:12 mitrom yup 12:12 gregorycu The love bug 12:12 mitrom rm -rf christmas/ 12:12 gregorycu And it's infectious 12:13 Zeno` 10:12PM here 12:13 gregorycu See, that's just silly 12:13 mitrom 12:13 12:13 Zeno` Melbourne is on daylight savings to save coal during time of war (apparently) 12:13 SylvieLorxu If someone speaks Dutch: http://www.speld.nl/2014/12/23/kerstalarm-afgegeven-voor-nederland/ 12:13 gregorycu Also to enjoy more sun 12:14 Zeno` gregorycu, yeah and make your curtains fade faster 12:14 Zeno` too much sun == increase in curtain fade and also skin cancer 12:14 gregorycu Not enough sun == Tasmanians 12:15 gregorycu I'll take the skin cancer thanks 12:15 exio4 what is that sun you are all talking about 12:15 gregorycu Sol 12:15 Zeno` Not to mention no "savings" at all because since WW2 things have changed and we no longer go to sleep when the sun goes down hehe 12:15 exio4 I heard stories about it from some outsider, but I've never seen it! 12:16 Zeno` I'm pretty happy about this release 12:16 Zeno` if #2000 was included I'd be super happy, but I'm still happy 12:18 Zeno` let's release it before crazy northern hemisphere people wake up 12:18 gregorycu Yeah, I saw that 12:18 gregorycu Looks good 12:19 exio4 south people ftw! 12:19 * exio4 hugs Zeno` & gregorycu 12:19 gregorycu Where you from exio4? 12:19 Zeno` group hug! 12:19 * Amaz is a crazy northern hemisphere person! 12:20 Zeno` hehehe Amaz 12:20 exio4 Argentina 12:20 Zeno` Amaz, I am a crazy southern hemisphere person 12:20 Amaz :D 12:21 Amaz So is 0.4.11 going to be released today, all being well? 12:22 Zeno` Can't think why not 12:22 Zeno` it's a solid release (IMO) 12:22 Amaz :D 12:22 Amaz It has had ~2 weeks of feature freeze. 12:22 Amaz So it had better be good ;) 12:22 Zeno` (aka dev holiday) 12:22 Zeno` lol, j/k 12:22 Amaz XD 12:23 Amaz And of course, it has all of your speed improvements, Zeno`! 12:23 Zeno` all but one 12:24 Zeno` even without that one it's more than 2x as fast as 0.4.10 so I'm not too fussed if the last one doesn't make it in. Although I'd like it to ;) 12:24 Amaz :D 12:25 Zeno` maybe more than 2x as fast. I'll profile after 0.4.11 is done heheh 12:26 Zeno` plus main.cpp and game.cpp are approaching readable now (instead of 3000 line functions hehe) 12:27 Amaz XD 12:28 exio4 the only readable code I ever saw so far, was written in Haskell 12:28 exio4 well, readable and beautiful! 12:28 exio4 if you write that C api Zeno`, I'll start to work in a Haskell interface 12:30 Zeno` I kinda put the C API on hold 12:30 Zeno` maybe next release... 12:34 mitrom exio4, haskell is bad 12:35 mitrom It's like the swahili of the programming world 12:36 exio4 it is evil, yes, after you learn it, all languages look ugly and imperative 12:36 SylvieLorxu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbY3TMUcgQ 12:37 mitrom you talking about swahilians? 12:37 mitrom or whatever they're called 12:37 mitrom parasites 12:37 exio4 also, why is it bad :p 12:39 mitrom I h8 haskell 12:39 mitrom its just 12:39 mitrom googling it crashed mozilla 12:40 SylvieLorxu mitrom: You use Mozilla? Interesting, not many people do 12:41 mitrom ... 12:41 SylvieLorxu People tend to prefer Firefox over Mozilla because Mozilla tends to have a lot of features most people don't care about 12:41 mitrom Wait what 12:41 mitrom they're different things... 12:41 mitrom Mozilla's the company, ain't it? 12:41 exio4 I hated Haskell until I learnt it 12:41 exio4 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #haskellproblems 12:41 SylvieLorxu Well, Mozilla got renamed to SeaMonkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaMonkey 12:42 mitrom * Now talking on #haskellproblems 12:42 * mitrom installs 12:42 * mitrom wants to be a minority 12:43 mitrom unaffiliated/hacker 12:43 mitrom wow 12:43 * Krock likes Netscape Navigator 12:43 * mitrom likes netcat 12:43 exio4 Zeno`, what are the most decoupled parts of minetest right now? 12:43 exio4 I'll need to work next year, and I'm thinking of reworking parts of minetest using Haskell 12:44 * Krock has never seen any haskell scripts/programs 12:44 mitrom ... 12:44 mitrom maskell 12:45 mitrom im writing minetest in lolcode 12:45 exio4 vry hax0r 12:45 exio4 much exio 12:45 exio4 netcat? psh, real men use butterflies 12:45 Zeno` exio4 are you sure anything at all is decoupled? 12:45 exio4 have you seen any functional programming language, ever? :p 12:45 exio4 if I show you any, it'll look like brainfuck (if you haven't) 12:46 mitrom lol 12:46 mitrom real men use emacs 12:47 exio4 Zeno`, that is why I said "most", in related to ALL the code! 12:47 exio4 the thing that only interacts with 80% of the codebase, not 100% 12:47 exio4 sorry, not 100% but 99.99% 12:47 exio4 uh, I can't english today 12:48 mitrom I feel sorry for https://isitchristmas.com/ 12:48 exio4 Zeno`, sorry 12:48 exio4 :P 12:49 mitrom lol 12:49 Zeno` exio4, I'm not really sure TBH 12:49 mitrom mouse wars 12:49 mitrom https://isitchristmas.com/ 12:49 Zeno` there it lots of stuff... 12:50 * mitrom is the one with the UK flag in the top right 12:50 exio4 Zeno`, by easier, I mean, like, compared to all the other code, I don't think rewriting the mapgen or the scripting api would be actually easIER! :D 12:53 Jordach Krock! 12:53 Krock wat 12:53 Jordach u want sum texture 12:53 Jordach link to your game 12:53 Krock https://github.com/SmallJoker/base_game 12:53 Jordach swag1 m8 12:56 exio4 you are SmallJoker Krock? today I learned :P 12:57 Krock exio4, no. It's just someone who copies my thoughts and avatars 12:57 Jordach Krock, https://mediacru.sh/41f75a3b8cd6 12:57 Jordach hit download album and rename appropriately 12:57 Krock ty 12:58 Jordach i really should add jungles into BFD 12:58 Jordach they've been missing too long :) 13:05 Krock Jordach, I already had a good normal-wood texture, but the junglewood looks much better now :) https://github.com/SmallJoker/base_game/commit/b2ae 13:06 Krock Diffrent wood textures are generally not bad. junglewood isn't like regular wood. 13:10 Krock http://i.imgur.com/oeyWTDf.png 13:12 Jordach then again BFD is more and more looking like Terraria fucked Dwarf Fortress 13:13 mitrom http://puu.sh/dHJ35/1172cee6f4.png 13:13 mitrom Don't try this at home 13:13 mitrom Well, i didn't 13:15 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Large increase in performance 138621e6d http://git.io/C92FkA (152014-12-24T23:13:24+10:00) 13:15 Jordach yes pls 13:15 Jordach <3 zenie 13:18 Krock Jordach, Zeno asked me to test it with MSVC and it worked. you can find the exe in the shared dropbox folder if you want :) 13:19 Jordach Krock, heard of the Infinite Jukebox 13:19 Krock oke 13:19 Krock googling it 13:19 Krock uuh. 13:20 Jordach Krock, http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html 13:20 Krock yeah. checking out M.C's Billie Jean 13:21 Krock Jordach, mhm after it's done loading it returns to the start page and plays. silence. 13:21 Jordach reload the page 13:21 Jordach does that often if FF 34 13:21 Krock Chrome here. 13:22 Jordach reloading seems to fix it 13:22 Krock hmm doesn't work 13:22 Krock checking it with FF 13:23 redstonecraftPL relog 13:23 Jordach Krock, https://cdn.mediacru.sh/K/KGpmG2jvrW-v.png 13:24 Krock looks a bit CPU intensive but interestin 13:25 Jordach Rainmeter is using more CPU than Firefox 13:25 Jordach u wot m8 13:25 Krock whoa. amazing 13:25 Jordach >Windows Exploder has stopped working 13:25 Krock not even CPU intensive 13:26 Krock and those connections in the circle mean loops? 13:26 Jordach yes, it's a jump point 13:26 Krock :D 13:27 ziggy909 anyone ever thought about making an rpg mod? 13:28 mitrom Jordach, Y U USE WINDOWS? 13:28 Jordach mitrom, AMD APU here 13:28 Jordach no drivers 13:28 mitrom what 13:28 mitrom oh 13:28 Jordach not even non-free blobs to run it 13:28 Jordach SoL in my case 13:28 mitrom Nothing's impossible sir 13:29 mitrom Just really, really difficult 13:29 mitrom Easier to get a new PC I guess 13:29 Jordach too expensive in teh UK 13:29 Jordach a decent quad core is usually >£400 13:30 mitrom Laptop+Monitor+keyboard+mouse is a good bet 13:31 Jordach mitrom, i do resource heavy rendering 13:31 mitrom Oh that's always hot 13:31 mitrom Got fast internet? 13:32 Jordach 8mbps (BT gib fibre next year :D) 13:32 mitrom damn sir 13:32 mitrom Oh wait what 13:32 Jordach considering i live out on a farmland area, pretty good for ADSL 13:32 mitrom g-g-g-gigabit 13:32 mitrom So 13:32 mitrom An amazon GPU-optimized should do it 13:33 Jordach mitrom, Blender Internals is CPU bound 13:33 mitrom well then 13:33 Jordach i nearly cooked a Pentium 4 13:33 mitrom lol 13:33 mitrom Wait if you buy another pc you'll still have your current one 13:34 mitrom Just run linux on an old laptop 13:34 mitrom always works 13:34 Jordach pff 13:34 Krock You don't cook a P4, the P4 cooks you. 13:34 Jordach i'm working in a Creative IT BTEC at the minute 13:34 Jordach no luck with FOSS stuff 13:34 Jordach except when it comes to graphics 13:34 Jordach i got away with Blender, Krita and GIMP 13:35 Krock mhm that infinite jukebox can't handle older songs well. I can hear when it jumps, the music parts aren't 1:1 the same :3 13:35 Jordach Krock, Ska from the 80s (Madness) works fine 13:36 Krock Jordach, maybe they copy&pasted some parts of the song to an other position of it :P 13:36 Krock ..or they just sing very evenly 13:37 Jordach Krock, there is actually a threshold for those jumps and can be fine tuned 13:37 Krock oke 13:37 Jordach hit that tune button :) 13:38 Krock aah. i c 13:46 Jordach >2 hours to sunset 13:51 Krock Oh mah gawd. http://subefotos.com/ver/?e012ffb418bccfdcb78eec499f17122fo.jpg 13:51 * Jordach works on a replacement for bones 13:52 Krock I didn't know that's even possible. 13:53 Jordach instead of a crappy looking set of bones, you get a cool as headstone. with a randomised death string 14:12 Jordach http://paste.debian.net/137981/ i like these taunting style death messages on the headstone 14:19 Jordach just need to plug in signs_lib 14:44 Jordach https://cdn.mediacru.sh/j/j8fBZhky3vZ2.png 15:37 kaeza meow 15:39 * Jordach meows at kaeza 16:00 shadowzone Hi 16:36 ElectronLibre Sorry to bother you, but I have a question. When it's said "Release on the 24th", where does it have to be the 24th so the 0.4.11 will be released exactly? 16:40 Jordach !title https://github.com/Jordach/big_freaking_dig/commit/ef2e7bd4fb799ec6dba94c05b6cf7c96cbb72fe0 16:40 MinetestBot Jordach: BFD 0.5-rc1 contains kittens, headstones, shiny textures and other stuff · ef2e7bd · Jordach/big_freaking_dig · GitHub 16:47 ElectronLibre I suppose it's the kittens he has shown us in his videos. 16:51 marktraceur ElectronLibre: Free software release schedules are more art than science 16:58 Jordach john_minetest, only use v5 or v7 17:22 necron99 Good afternoon, everyone. 17:24 necron99 I am having issues running this on debian sid. 17:25 necron99 When launching from the terminal, it says "Irrlicht log: Irrlicht Engine version 1.8.1 17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt2-1 (2014-12-08) x86_64 17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Using renderer: OpenGL 2.1 17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Mesa DRI Intel(R) IGD : Intel Open Source Technology Center 17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: OpenGL driver version is 1.2 or better. 17:27 necron99 Sorry. 17:29 necron99 I am having issues trying to run minetest in debian sid. http://pastebin.com/8FHm4xCA 17:30 necron99 I tried to fix it by installing pulseaudio(which I don't normally use) but it still gave a segmentation fault. 17:30 necron99 Thanks for any help or insight in advance. 17:37 CraigyDavi necron99, can you check what you have in /etc/openal/alsoft.conf under the "drivers =" option? 17:44 necron99 CraigyDavi, here http://pastebin.com/vbsH3Z7L 17:46 CraigyDavi Try uncommenting it and remove alsa from the list 17:47 necron99 Do I need to use pulse at all? I try to avoid it because I have issues when producing music. 17:48 necron99 Also, I thought "#" was uncommented. Forgive my lack of knowledge. 17:50 CraigyDavi You might not need to use it, I'm not entirely sure 17:51 CraigyDavi If removing alsa from the list doesn't work you might be missing liboss 17:51 necron99 So erase the "#" and take out pulse instead? Or do as you initially suggested? 17:52 CraigyDavi Try what I initially suggested and then try removing pulse instead 18:03 necron99 Okay, first suggestion gave the same error. Removing pulse altogether gives this http://pastebin.com/mHJrrfzT 18:03 necron99 I mean removing pulse instead of alsa 18:27 cardust good afternoon 18:28 cardust christzone sounds too holy 18:29 ChristZone That's the point 18:29 cardust where are the releases? 18:30 shadowzone I don't know 18:30 ElectronLibre It's top secret apparently. 18:30 cardust did they lie to us? 18:31 ElectronLibre In fact nobody knows exactly.. 18:31 cardust though it is still 24 18:42 cardust 🎄🎅❤ 18:48 ElectronLibre (To everyone how wants to know when will be the release : Recently, I've discovered something while compiling my own Minetest, in the CMakeList.txt file : it's needed to change some parameters about the version in this file before the release, just track the commits/push on minetest/minetest about this file. (if I'm not wrong)) 19:00 luizrpgluiz hi 19:01 cardust hello 19:02 ElectronLibre Hello luiz. 19:41 mitrom hey there 19:41 whitehat-hacker hey mitrom 19:41 whitehat-hacker wait what is minetest 19:42 whitehat-hacker i never heard this program before 19:42 whitehat-hacker is this a hacker group 19:43 whitehat-hacker nah 19:43 whitehat-hacker this sux 19:43 whitehat-hacker just use blender 19:43 whitehat-hacker blender engine 19:43 whitehat-hacker can code 3d game 19:43 whitehat-hacker if you want to know 19:43 whitehat-hacker We can train you but is ncsoft that train you 19:44 whitehat-hacker ncsoft is 0x71 (xc) Our 19:44 whitehat-hacker if you don't know what is blender 19:44 whitehat-hacker go to blender.org 19:48 hmmmm oh my god i thought this guy only existed on efnet 19:48 hmmmm ban, ban, ban, ban 19:49 mitrom lol 19:49 mitrom yup yup yup yup 19:49 hmmmm it sounds like he's trolling but he's actually this incoherent jesus-obsessed psychopath 19:49 VanessaE that was...odd. 19:49 mitrom yeah he's a schizophrenic 19:50 hmmmm the number of people actually insane vs. the number of people acting like it for the purpose of trolling is small, but they do exist. this guy is actually one of them 19:50 mitrom He's on efnet too? 19:50 hmmmm yeah 19:50 hmmmm did you look at his website 19:50 mitrom Nope 19:50 mitrom I looked at his personal details though 19:50 hmmmm he also writes these jesus songs and sings them 19:50 mitrom lol 19:50 mitrom What channels on efnet? 19:51 hmmmm he goes to all of them 19:51 hmmmm anything programming related, anything technical 19:51 hmmmm #math, #c, #asm, #winprog, so on 19:51 VanessaE wait, people still use efnet? :P 19:51 hmmmm yeah 19:54 mitrom Wait, under what nick? 19:56 hmmmm skraito 19:56 mitrom 14:56 -!- There is no such nick skraito 19:56 mitrom Oh well 19:57 hmmmm well obviously not right now, he's been glined 19:57 mitrom lol 20:08 mitrom ~schizophrenic 20:15 mitrom I want world peace 20:16 mitrom actually no i dont 20:16 mitrom i want a coffee 20:18 VanessaE no, we need a LOT more than 2 days worth 20:18 VanessaE bug reports frequently link back to old logs sometimes weeks old 20:18 VanessaE and as those reports age, the links age with them 20:19 VanessaE those log entries shouldn't expire 20:19 VanessaE if you're worried about saying something incriminating....well... just don't say it. 20:20 VanessaE not that easily 20:20 VanessaE forget it. the logs need to stay 20:20 sfan5 ^ 20:21 VanessaE they should. 20:21 VanessaE well that's what robots.txt is for. 20:22 VanessaE no one's gonna go digging through the logs looking for stupid shit you've written anyway. 20:22 VanessaE "This is why we can't have nice things." 20:22 VanessaE no, the logs need to stay, in all their eternal searchability. 20:22 VanessaE break that and you break a lot of the ability we have to find out when shit happened. 20:23 VanessaE robots.txt is a file you can include with a website that dictates what a search engine is allowed to do when it crawls your site 20:23 VanessaE that file probably doesn't exist, and shouldn't. 20:23 VanessaE this channel is logged. 20:23 VanessaE and those logs are public. 20:24 VanessaE end of story 20:25 sfan5 relevant: http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Robots.txt 20:52 JS|NotAfk ~Coin 20:52 ShadowBot JS|NotAfk: heads 20:52 JS|NotAfk heads! yay 20:52 JS|NotAfk Bye for now 20:52 JS|NotAfk ~Rainbow BYE 20:52 ShadowBot JS|NotAfk: 04B07Y08E 20:53 JS|NotAfk Good bye to you too shadowbot ;') 20:57 marktraceur Why does ShadowBot message the channel instead of talking normally 20:58 sfan5 because the IRC RFC says so 20:58 sfan5 and ShadowNinja wants his bot to adhere to the rfc strictly 20:58 sfan5 even if it's stupid 21:00 marktraceur That's...very stupid 21:00 marktraceur sfan5: The IRC RFC says bots should do that, or everyone should? 21:00 SylvieLorxu marktraceur: But standards! 21:00 sfan5 marktraceur: just bots 21:00 marktraceur SylvieLorxu: Life is what happens when you're busy writing standards 21:01 SylvieLorxu Bots should use notices in messages, and bots should never respond to notices 21:01 marktraceur Huh. 21:01 SylvieLorxu It's a way to prevent infinite loops with multiple bots 21:01 marktraceur Fascinating. 21:01 sfan5 lol 21:01 marktraceur But it imbues meaning onto notices that wouldn't otherwise be there, and isn't self-evident 21:01 marktraceur I don't think about robots when I think about notices. 21:01 marktraceur I think about admins and announcements and stuff. 21:02 SylvieLorxu Well, you've noticed the meaning of notices incorrectly 21:02 SylvieLorxu On an unrelated note: WarxborecbexbeasnxasWORDPRESSWHYxrpxuaclguxbelgdxelugig *pukes* 21:02 SylvieLorxu Okay, just needed to let that out 21:02 marktraceur :) 21:02 SylvieLorxu I swear WordPress makes me go insane sometimes 21:03 SylvieLorxu The only times I don't really have issues with WordPress is when I don't have to work with it 21:04 Johns|en UH 21:05 marktraceur Johns|en: UH indeed. 21:23 Johns|en UH indeed??? 21:23 Johns|en Lol brb 21:50 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Travis integration 13f66d2a7 http://git.io/_zURgg (152014-12-24T22:47:34+01:00) 21:50 sfan5 ^ yay 21:51 mitrom wait what 22:01 sfan5 !seen BlockMen 22:01 MinetestBot sfan5: blockmen was last seen at 2014-11-09 16:16:22 UTC on #minetest 22:04 Johns|en Hi sfan 22:04 Johns|en brb 22:05 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Add travis build status to README 1380ad231 http://git.io/dMWdtg (152014-12-24T23:05:25+01:00) 23:32 test Is nate123 server up? 23:32 Johnsen2 i think o 23:32 Johnsen2 so 23:32 Johnsen2 brb 23:38 test Can someone connect to Nate123's server, it doesn't work for me. Thanks 23:40 Jordach 20 mins :3 23:47 kaeza !server nate123 23:47 MinetestBot kaeza: No results 23:49 test I think it's down. :/