IRC log for #minetest, 2014-09-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
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00:34	kaeza	<offtopic>anybody know a good program for w32 to convert a PNG image sequence to any video format?</offtopic>
00:37	OWNSyouAll	kaeza, ffmpeg
00:38	kaeza	hmm
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00:45	VanessaE_	back.
00:58	kaeza	https://mediacru.sh/TJ-eRqS60d2r
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01:01	kaeza	looks like Blender OS (tm) has that functionality. thanks anyway OWNSyouAll :P
01:01	luizrpgluiz	hi
01:02	kaeza	hi
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01:02	kaeza	bye
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01:11	jordan4ibanez	Here, this is a stupid mod which makes the player auto jump if there's anything in front of them. I bet someone can do something with this. http://pastie.org/private/znlancrqnftg3ibu1xw5kg
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02:15	Sokomine	jordan4ibanez: so that you can walk smoothly over a map? even if the height difference is one? that sounds very intresting
02:16	Sokomine	would be great to have on servers (although lag may be too high for that)
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02:49	blaise	hey, uhrm
02:51	blaise	would anyone be willing to work with me to help create a package for the OpenWRT firmware img the wndr3700 (V1) ?
02:51	blaise	so that the minetest server could be hosted on that device?
02:54	blaise	also, I noticed that there is no efnet #minetest
02:55	blaise	I have taken the liberty of creating said channel
02:56	VanessaE_	people still use efnet? :P
02:56	VanessaE_	next you'll be saying there are still people on undernet and galaxynet also :P
02:56	blaise	ehm, I don't care for those irc networks
02:57	blaise	but I started out on the erris free network
02:57	VanessaE_	I started out on efnet actually, before the efnet/ircnet split
02:59	blaise	I figured if I keep this channel with the topic showing the latest version, the irc rules, and the public minetest server list
02:59	VanessaE_	good idea
02:59	blaise	it might spark some interest in those that don't know about its existence
02:59	blaise	:)
03:00	blaise	maybe when I get my ducks in a row I can get a shell and host a #minetest bridge bot so the ops here can preform actions on the efnet #minetest
03:01	VanessaE	it might be enough to have the bot /notice users as they join that channel, telling them to come here
03:02	blaise	I better limit the channel before I get join/part flooded
03:02	blaise	XD
03:02	VanessaE	heh
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08:26	Megaf_	Morning all
08:26	Megaf_	Hi blaise
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08:37	JamesTait	Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy International Dot Day! :-D
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09:02	Megaf_	Hi JamesTait, morning
09:02	Megaf_	People, is there a way that I can be sure that my server is actually using LuaJIT?
09:08	Megaf_	VanessaE: Ping
09:14	Megaf_	VanessaE: What script do you use to copy all your media files?
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09:16	TriBlade9	...
09:16	TriBlade9	Derp
09:17	TriBlade9	Anyone here awake?
09:18	meldrian	hello TriBlade9
09:18	TriBlade9	Hello meldrian :)
09:19	TriBlade9	What might you be up to?
09:19	meldrian	answering questions :) I'am awake
09:21	TriBlade9	Ah
09:21	TriBlade9	Nice to see someone online, living in China is a bit annoying when everyone else is asleep >_>
09:22	meldrian	well, it's 11:20 am right now so... I'am awake :) but tired
09:23	TriBlade9	Go to sleep if you need to x]
09:23	DusXMT	TriBlade9: It's early noon over here ;)
09:24	TriBlade9	It's 17:24 here :P
09:24	TriBlade9	You in the UK/western Europe?
09:25	meldrian	why's everyone asleep around you @ 17:24?
09:25	Megaf_	10:25 here, UTC +1
09:26	DusXMT	Pretty close, Central Europe (that's one more hour, UTC+2)
09:26	DusXMT	TriBlade9: ^^
09:26	Megaf_	Im in Dublin :)
09:26	TriBlade9	Ah
09:27	TriBlade9	No one's asleep around me (except for old people)
09:27	TriBlade9	I just know most of y'alls timezones are sleeping right now :)
09:27	TriBlade9	^ That sentence made no sense
09:27	meldrian	na, western europe's still here
09:29	TriBlade9	Yay
09:29	* TriBlade9	loves Western Europe now!
09:29		blaze joined #minetest
09:29	TriBlade9	Hai blaze
09:29	DusXMT	More like the entire Europe, it's just 13:27 in Ukraine, which is on the east
09:29	Guest76279	hi TriBlade9
09:29	Megaf_	In a couple of minutes Id like some help in testing my servers remote media
09:29	Megaf_	Hi blaze
09:29	TriBlade9	I'd be glad to help Megaf_
09:29	TriBlade9	IP and version?
09:30	TriBlade9	Is it 0.4.10-git compatible?
09:30	Megaf_	Thanks
09:30	meldrian	holy moly that means... nearly half of the WORLD might be awake right now?!
09:30	meldrian	amazing!
09:30	Megaf_	TriBlade9: I will use a remote server as media server, so it wont eat my servers uplink everythime someone is joining
09:31	Megaf_	TriBlade9: my server is GIT version :)
09:31	Megaf_	meldrian: I dont know whats more amazing, the fact that half is awake or the fact that half is asleep
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09:31	TriBlade9	Awesome
09:31	blaze	hi Megaf_
09:32	* meldrian	's confused
09:33	TriBlade9	Megaf, send the IP when you're ready, I'm recompiling MT right now
09:33	Megaf	uploading media using a 3G connection my be hard
09:33	TriBlade9	Ow
09:33	Megaf	TriBlade9: I will
09:33	TriBlade9	Ofc, 3G in Dublin is probably about the same as Ethernet in Shanghai... At least where I am >_>
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09:35	Megaf	40 KB/s of upload here
09:35	Megaf	TriBlade9: well, 3G can be quite fast, but here in my falt is not good at all
09:36	TriBlade9	40KB/s is quite good for upload...
09:36	TriBlade9	You lucky dog >:U
09:37	Megaf	TriBlade9: the transfer failed on the last second
09:39	TriBlade9	Ow
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09:46	Megaf	*****!!
09:46	Megaf	it fails on the last second!
09:46	TriBlade9	Again?
09:46	TriBlade9	Ow
09:46	TriBlade9	Wow, that really sucks
09:46	Megaf	Error:        Connection timed out
09:46	Megaf	Error:        File transfer failed after transferring 15789266 bytes in 423 seconds
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09:50	TriBlade9	asie!
09:50	TriBlade9	HI
09:50	TriBlade9	Dayum you get around
09:53	TriBlade9	Can anyone tell me what makes a MT world feel so.. idk.. dead/boring compared to MC, even when using the same textures?
09:53	asie	TriBlade9: focus on functionality over user experience
09:53	asie	because nobody had time to make good UX
09:53	TriBlade9	mm
09:53	TriBlade9	Like the UI? Dayum that thing is ugly
09:53	TriBlade9	And the chat box is atrocious
09:53	asie	no
09:53	asie	UX
09:53	asie	UI is how it looks
09:53	TriBlade9	UI is part of the UX
09:53	asie	UX is how it feels
09:54	asie	yes it is
09:54	asie	but it's not the most important
09:54	TriBlade9	We know the UX sucks
09:54	asie	yes
09:54	TriBlade9	But what is the most important part?
09:54	asie	the UX.
09:54	asie	Always.
09:54	TriBlade9	No, I meant the most important part of the UX. Btw, this is the same TriBlade9 from #cauldron :) Nice to see ya
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09:56	TriBlade9	There's all kinds of lttle areas that need improvement
09:59	TriBlade9	asie, what exactly do you think is missing from the UX?
10:01	Megaf	thinks like head movement
10:01	Megaf	when the players looks around
10:01	Megaf	and smooth player and mobs movement too
10:01	Megaf	also fonts are terrible
10:02	TriBlade9	Aye
10:02	TriBlade9	There needs to be some sort of local mod
10:02	TriBlade9	Head movement isn't a huge deal
10:02	TriBlade9	But boxes around rotating entities seems so strange
10:02	asie	Yes
10:02	Megaf	TriBlade9: 2000 files to upload, after that I can turn my server on
10:03	Megaf	TriBlade9: they are working on this boxes thing, RealBadAngel is actually
10:04	TriBlade9	Removing it or making it rotate? If both were added I could practically kiss RBA
10:04	TriBlade9	That's my biggest turn-off
10:04	TriBlade9	I want to modify player movement as well, but iDK which source file to edit
10:04	TriBlade9	Still perusing code
10:04	Megaf	TriBlade9: minetest_game/mods/default/player.lua
10:05	Megaf	or something like that
10:05	Megaf	thats one file to edit
10:05	TriBlade9	Okay
10:05	TriBlade9	No wonder, I was looking in the C++
10:05	TriBlade9	Wasn't there a mod waaay back by sfan5 or smth that Added minecraft-style signs?
10:05	TriBlade9	Like you could type on the sign?
10:06	asie	yes
10:06	asie	i have it
10:06	TriBlade9	Really?
10:07	TriBlade9	I'll look for it then
10:07	TriBlade9	I've been away since MT 0.4.6
10:07	TriBlade9	Speaking of new stuff, are nodeboxes animatable yet? x]
10:09	Megaf	nope
10:09	Megaf	470 files to go o/
10:09	TriBlade9	Damn
10:09	TriBlade9	What about dynamically switching out textures for a node?
10:09	RealBadAngel	i dont plan to add animation to nodeboxes, its pointless
10:10	RealBadAngel	for that drawtype mesh is better
10:10	Megaf	!tell iqualfragile Linux numbers include desktop and android. By sfan5
10:10	MinetestBot	Megaf: yeah, yeah
10:10	TriBlade9	Waait
10:10	TriBlade9	There's a mesh drawtype?
10:10	RealBadAngel	there will be
10:10	TriBlade9	Oh
10:10	TriBlade9	ETA? (If I may ask)
10:11	RealBadAngel	no idea, too much stuff already not finished
10:11	RealBadAngel	and yes, im working on better selection boxes
10:11	TriBlade9	Dayum
10:11	TriBlade9	YES
10:11	TriBlade9	Rotating with entities?
10:11	RealBadAngel	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUeiwNKahWI&amp;feature=youtu.be
10:11	RealBadAngel	atm theyre workin with nodes only
10:12	TriBlade9	YT is blocked ;_;
10:12	TriBlade9	#WelcomeToChina
10:13	RealBadAngel	http://i.imgur.com/7M2QskC.png
10:13	DusXMT	TriBlade9: Can't you use a proxy or something to avoid the block?
10:14	TriBlade9	Nope
10:14	DusXMT	How come?
10:14	TriBlade9	Proxy isn't effective for a JS/flash-heavy site. Dropbox barely works with my proxies
10:15	TriBlade9	Ah
10:15	TriBlade9	Blue box :O
10:15	TriBlade9	I can't tell if I like it or hate it
10:15	TriBlade9	But if it's mesh-based, I love you anyways :)
10:16	DusXMT	TriBlade9: Then get something like youtube-dl (a python script for downloading web videos, and not just youtube ones), route it through a proxy and you should be aboe to download the vids :) (That's how I watch youtube videos, except for the proxy)
10:16	DusXMT	*able
10:17	DusXMT	It seems to support HTTP/HTTPS proxy directly even, so you can just pass it as a command line argument
10:18	TriBlade9	I'll check it :D
10:19	TriBlade9	Sometimes I convert a vid to a mp4 online if I really want to see it
10:21	Megaf	TriBlade9: you could use a SSH Socksv5 Tunnel
10:21	TriBlade9	Yeah...
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10:21	TriBlade9	Except they keep blocking me everythime I try that
10:21	TriBlade9	It like lasts for a day or two
10:21	TriBlade9	Same for a VPN
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10:35	Megaf	hi PilzAdam
10:35		Amaz joined #minetest
10:38	Megaf	hm, what address I have to use for remote_media? /media/ or /media/index.mth?
10:38	Megaf	RealBadAngel: any idea?
10:38	Megaf	asie: ?
10:38	asie	I think /media/
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10:39	Megaf	!server Megaf
10:39	MinetestBot	Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | minetest.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/9, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.10-Megaf / MegafXplore | Ping: 548ms
10:39	Megaf	can someone please try my remote_media?
10:49	Megaf	seems like its not working 11:48:46: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.66ghz.com/MEDIA/index.mth not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 200)
10:52	kahrl	Megaf: looks like your index.mth has an extra "-en " in front of it
10:52	kahrl	what shell did you execute sfan5's script with?
10:53	Megaf	kahrl: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560
10:53	kahrl	yeah, I know, but what shell?
10:53	kahrl	there should be no "-en " if you used bash
10:54	Megaf	ah
10:54	Megaf	kahrl: OS X shell
10:54	Megaf	actually, bash
10:54	kahrl	ok, let me try something
10:54		proller joined #minetest
10:54	* kahrl	actually has access to an OS X machine at work
10:55	Megaf	kahrl: no no, I did that on Linux
10:55	Megaf	Debian
10:55	kahrl	oh
10:55	kahrl	are you sure?
10:55	Megaf	yes
10:55	Megaf	kahrl: cant I just change that by hand?
10:56	kahrl	well, yes
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10:56	kahrl	but I wonder if the script couldn't be made more portable
10:56	kahrl	if I type "echo -en bla" in OS X I get: -en bla
10:57	kahrl	if I type "echo -en bla" in Ubuntu (should be the same as Debian, no?) I get: bla
10:57	kahrl	(the latter with no newline)
10:57	DusXMT	HOw about using the printf program instead of echo?
10:57	DusXMT	By default, it evaluates expressions and adds no \n
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10:58	kahrl	DusXMT: good idea
10:59	kahrl	seems to work on OS X, Ubuntu and Gentoo
11:01	kahrl	ugh, I have no idea why in OS X "help echo" tells you that -neE are options but the actual echo just prints them
11:03	DusXMT	perhaps there are several different echos? (eg. built in the shell, and a stand-alone program?)
11:04	kahrl	it should always use the builtin if it exists, right?
11:04	kahrl	and since "help echo" works I assume the builtin exists
11:05	DusXMT	I'd think so, unless you force the external program by specifying its path
11:05	kahrl	it works if I either do /bin/echo -n or run bash (as opposed to sh) and do echo -n
11:05	kahrl	but help echo in sh still tells me about the options
11:06	DusXMT	Perhaps help is also an external program?
11:06	kahrl	I don't think so, "which help" prints nothing
11:06	DusXMT	You could try something simple like this: alias echo=/bin/echo  ; but you'd have to put that at the beginning of each script.
11:07	DusXMT	or simply: sed 's|echo|/bin/echo|g' -i.bak script.sh
11:07	Megaf	!server Megaf
11:07	MinetestBot	Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | minetest.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/9, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.10-Megaf / MegafXplore | Ping: 604ms
11:07	kahrl	or use printf ;)
11:07	DusXMT	Or :)
11:07	Megaf	DusXMT: kahrl: can you please try my remote media now?
11:08	kahrl	Megaf: looks fine in the browser now
11:08	kahrl	or, actually, no
11:08	kahrl	there shouldn't be verbatim \x00\x01 in it
11:08	kahrl	those should be two bytes with values 0 and 1
11:09	Megaf	12:08:51: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.66ghz.com/MEDIA/index.mth not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 200)
11:09	DusXMT	I wish people used a more defined language than shell...
11:10	Megaf	kahrl: so, MTHS01 or MTHS 0 1?
11:10	Megaf	how should it looks like?
11:10	kahrl	Megaf: just rerun the script, but with printf instead of echo -en
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11:12	Megaf	kahrl: will I have to reupload everything or just the index?
11:12	kahrl	just the index
11:12	TriBlade-Away	Megaf, any progress?
11:12	Megaf	not really
11:12	TriBlade9	:/
11:12	Megaf	Im renerating the index now
11:13	Megaf	lets see what happens
11:15	Megaf	kahrl: the index looks like this now, MTHS\x00\x01�<T��%^G�:�
11:16	kahrl	looks wrong
11:16	Megaf	$ echo $SHELL
11:16	Megaf	/bin/bash
11:16	kahrl	strange
11:18	kahrl	what's the output of printf "MTHS\x00\x01"?
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11:19	Megaf	$ printf "MTHS\x00\x01"
11:19	Megaf	MTHSminetestodroid-wheezy:~$
11:20	kahrl	idk why it would work outside the script but not inside
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11:21	DusXMT	Perhaps the script has a #!/bin/sh shebang?
11:21	DusXMT	instead of bash?
11:21	kahrl	nah, #!/bin/bash
11:21	kahrl	at least in sfan5's gist
11:22	kahrl	Megaf: well if you want you can change it with a hexeditor
11:23	kahrl	replace the bytes 5C 78 30 30 5C 78 30 31 with 00 01
11:24	kahrl	in index.mth I mean, of course
11:26	Megaf	kahrl: if I do printf "MTHS\x00\x01" > $MEDIADIR/index.mth in the command line
11:26	Megaf	this goes to index.mth MTHS^@^A
11:26	kahrl	ah, that's better
11:27	kahrl	I guess then you can comment out the corresponding line in the script (but keep the one afterwards that writes the hashes) and rerun it
11:28	Megaf	kahrl: yep, I separated the make index part to a second script
11:40	TriBlade9	Got it yet Megaf?
11:46	Megaf	TriBlade9: not yet, Im having troubles to upload a file
11:46	Megaf	ftp> put index.mth
11:46	Megaf	local: index.mth remote: index.mth
11:46	Megaf	and stays there
11:46	Megaf	whats wrong with this?
11:48	kahrl	some inane NAT issue (active vs passive FTP, etc.) probably
11:48	kahrl	I'd use sftp instead if possible
11:49	Megaf	not possible,
11:49	Megaf	Im working around that
11:49	kahrl	try passive FTP
11:51	Megaf	This is my last attempt today http://minetest.66ghz.com/MEDIA/index.mth
11:52	Megaf	I GIVE UP OF THIS SH***!
11:52	Megaf	12:52:16: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.66ghz.com/MEDIA/index.mth not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 200)
11:52	kahrl	well the file itself looks good now
11:53	Megaf	this things used to work fine before they changed how this works for worse
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11:57	Megaf	and if I try another server it givees me this message
11:57	Megaf	12:56:49: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.megaf.info/media/index.mth not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0)
11:57	Megaf	kahrl: minetest is so fucked up
11:58	Megaf	I just lost 3 hours for nothing, im out of here
11:59	kahrl	if I connect to your server, it works
11:59	kahrl	I have no idea why it doesn't work for you
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12:06	raffahacks	Hi
12:08	raffahacks	VanessaE, I tried your creative server :)
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12:28	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9:
12:28	Megaf|Away	!server Megaf
12:28	MinetestBot	Megaf|Away: Megaf Server v4.0 | minetest.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/9, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.10-Megaf / MegafXplore | Ping: 256ms
12:28	Megaf|Away	git it a try please
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12:29	Megaf|Away	kahrl: I should have reuploaded everything
12:29	Megaf|Away	13:28:59: INFO[main]: Client: Received media file 0a97348e1691cedda2462a17d65836c85b9e72de "character_91.png" mismatches actual checksum 52a66fb36851d3be2febcf34a7e16f98f66c004f
12:30	TriBlade9	Well, this is interesting
12:30	TriBlade9	Ready Megaf|Away
12:30	TriBlade9	?
12:31	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9: you will be able to login bu it will take lots of time
12:31	Megaf|Away	man, Im wasting so much time here.
12:31	TriBlade9	I'm logging in
12:32	TriBlade9	My connection is terrible at nights though
12:32	TriBlade9	If you could wait 'till tomorrow morning, I might actually be able to get on
12:32		casimir joined #minetest
12:32	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9: Im connection for 30 minutes already and still half way to login
12:32	TriBlade9	Ah
12:32	TriBlade9	Lots and lots of this, 20:32:44: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: http://minetest.66ghz.com/MEDIA/beds_bed_side_yellow.png not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 404)
12:33	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9: yep, I removed all files, Im going to reupload them
12:33	TriBlade9	Ow
12:33	TriBlade9	Sorry
12:33	TriBlade9	Imma have to go in a bit :/
12:33	TriBlade9	Hi casimir :)
12:33	kahrl	Megaf|Away: looks like you uploaded that file in ascii mode.
12:33	kahrl	try binary mode
12:34	kahrl	(another reason to avoid ftp)
12:35	Megaf|Away	kahrl: I hate ftp too
12:35	Megaf|Away	is slow and insecure
12:36	Megaf|Away	kahrl: but I dont have any other option
12:36	kahrl	did you try it? some hosters don't advertise sftp support but provide it
12:41	Megaf|Away	let me try
12:42	TriBlade9	Test
12:42	TriBlade9	Why are you on 3G anyways?
12:43	TriBlade9	Why the heck must formspec GUIs always look so ugly and badly codeD?
12:48	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9: because we are renting a flat and we are staying here for a short period of time
12:49	TriBlade9	Ah, alright
12:49	TriBlade9	Almost ready?
12:56	Megaf|Away	kahrl: any idea how do I know if ftp is uploading or not?
12:56	TriBlade9	umm
12:57	TriBlade9	What FTP client are you using?
12:58		adidik joined #minetest
12:58		SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
12:58	TriBlade9	Hi adidik :)
12:58	TriBlade9	Aaand hi SylvieLorxu
12:59	SylvieLorxu	Hi? o.o
13:00		adidik joined #minetest
13:01	TriBlade9	I just like to say hi...
13:06	kahrl	https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/
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13:10	TriBlade9	Are you FFing serious kahrl?
13:10	TriBlade9	I just checked mojang.com about 10 mins ago
13:11	TriBlade9	Love the way Linux isn't even mentioned in :There’s no reason for the development, sales, and support of the PC/Mac, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4, Vita, iOS, and Android versions of Minecraft to stop. Of course, Microsoft can’t make decisions for other companies or predict the choices that they might make in the future.
13:12	SylvieLorxu	At least we have enough clones
13:12	SylvieLorxu	Minecraft, Freeminer, Terasology, etc.
13:12	SylvieLorxu	We're not exactly shy on voxel sandbox games :P
13:12	TriBlade9	Not enough
13:12	TriBlade9	We need a Java clone, with a Rhino/DynJS modding API
13:13	TriBlade9	Allowing the mods/scripts to directly access the engine through JavaScript
13:13	TriBlade9	>:D
13:13	TriBlade9	(I tried to do that a few months ago, failed miserably)
13:13		asie joined #minetest
13:15	TriBlade9	asie
13:15	asie	I know
13:15	asie	about Minecraft being sold, at least
13:15	TriBlade9	You gonna stick with MC now that MS just bought MJ?
13:15	TriBlade9	Lots of Abbreviations there
13:15	asie	TriBlade9: Doubtful.
13:15	asie	Unless they don't fuck up.
13:15	TriBlade9	Same
13:15	TriBlade9	Only reason I would stay now is for my server
13:16	TriBlade9	And because MT's lighting sucks
13:16	TriBlade9	(See https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=154178#p154178)
13:17	kahrl	mc devs are stealing emoticons from mt devs now :P  https://twitter.com/jnkboy
13:17	TriBlade9	How?
13:18	TriBlade9	Orite
13:22	Megaf|Away	TriBlade9: Im not sticking with MC now that MS bought MJ, not because of MS buying MJ but only because I like MT the most.
13:22	Megaf|Away	And because it runs well on LNX
13:22	Megaf|Away	and on OS X
13:22	Megaf|Away	more abbreviations for you
13:23	SylvieLorxu	If I may interject for a moment
13:23	SylvieLorxu	What you're referring to as LNX is actually GNLNX
13:23	TriBlade9	G/LNX
13:24	TriBlade9	Unfortunately, GNU is already an abbreviation
13:24	TriBlade9	So it must be GNU/LNX
13:24		Mooch joined #minetest
13:24	TriBlade9	Then Wth
13:27	Megaf|Away	kahrl: Im trying to use a command line one
13:29		jp__ joined #minetest
13:33	TriBlade9	BUT
13:34	TriBlade9	Since L in Linux is an abbreviation of Linux, we can just say "L"
13:34		raffahacks joined #minetest
13:34	TriBlade9	And since S in Slash is an abbreviation of Slash, we can say GSL
13:34	raffahacks	Megaf, are you here?
13:35	raffahacks	!seen Megaf
13:35	MinetestBot	raffahacks: megaf was last seen at 2014-09-13 21:35:33 UTC on #minetest
13:35	DusXMT	Fun fact: There's now even an official "GNU" distro, and minetest was already ported to it, so some people can just say "GNU"
13:36	raffahacks	An official gnu distro?
13:36	DusXMT	yeah, it's still in the works, but you can find information on gnu.org/s/guix
13:36	TriBlade9	Oi
13:36	TriBlade9	Why not just state the distro
13:36	TriBlade9	Ubuntu 14.04:amd64
13:37	raffahacks	Stallman :)
13:37	DusXMT	That's also an option, what I do most of the time
13:37	raffahacks	Megaf|away, are you here?
13:37	Megaf|Away	raffahacks: yep
13:38	raffahacks	Do you also get some errors when mt for mac is started?
13:38		nutcase84 joined #minetest
13:38	Megaf|Away	raffahacks: yep, it crashes on startup often
13:39	Megaf|Away	raffahacks: also, mouse movement is not fluid
13:39	Megaf|Away	it hangs
13:39	raffahacks	I mean some image not found errors
13:39	nutcase84	Well, this is my new Minecraft now that EA bought it.
13:39	raffahacks	EA or MS?
13:39	DusXMT	MS
13:39	nutcase84	Derp, ms
13:39	nutcase84	just woke up. XD
13:39	DusXMT	If EA bought it, _that_ would be a disaster.
13:40	raffahacks	Megaf, like cannot load image in chat log
13:40	nutcase84	https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/
13:40	DusXMT	Don't get me wrong, I don't like M$, but EA... that's just a terrible company
13:40	nutcase84	agreed
13:40	raffahacks	Why a disaster? MS is MUCH worse for of
13:40	raffahacks	Me
13:41	DusXMT	Theyknow how to make good games bad
13:41	raffahacks	Well, I'm not a gamer
13:42	DusXMT	Neither am I, but I used to be, and I remember that some of the MS games I played weren't half as bad.
13:42		aldobr joined #minetest
13:42	aldobr	hi all
13:42	raffahacks	Megaf|away: do you ever get any cannot load image message in chat logs at start?
13:43	Megaf|Away	raffahacks: that depends on the server
13:43	raffahacks	Singleplayer
13:44		Unlucker joined #minetest
13:44	raffahacks	Mega
13:45	raffahacks	Megaf, I also sometimes notice big lags on multiplayer
13:45	raffahacks	Do you?
13:46	Megaf	raffahacks: again, servers issue
13:47	raffahacks	Ok, thank you
13:51	xnrand	since microsoft now owns minecraft... is microsoft gonna sue/dmca/whatever minetest just because "screw you we got lawyers"?
13:51	xnrand	sounds like a thing microsoft would do
13:52		NakedFury joined #minetest
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13:59	kaeza	oh my, there seems to be an influx of new users lately. MC refugees? :)
14:00		sruz25 joined #minetest
14:01	kaeza	also, mornings
14:02		sturryz joined #minetest
14:02	jp__	\o
14:04		parabyte joined #minetest
14:04	parabyte	is there any way to import a minecraft map into minetest
14:04	sfan5	yes
14:04	parabyte	I have no desire to run minecraft anymore!!!
14:04	parabyte	sweeeeeet
14:04	sfan5	!g import minecraft site:forum.minetest.net
14:04	MinetestBot	sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=572
14:04	sfan5	hm
14:04	sfan5	no
14:05	sturryz	i wish to purchase minetest for 2.5 billion, hook up with me so i can turn it into a cellphone game
14:05	sfan5	lemme find the topic
14:05	parabyte	i know
14:05	jp__	parabyte : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=6007
14:05	parabyte	since the purchase its totally put me off minecraft
14:05	sfan5	parabyte: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=6007
14:05	sfan5	parabyte: look at this for faster exports and imports: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=6007&amp;start=25#p148502
14:05	parabyte	okay second question if a minecraft client connects do they get a error message that says please connect via minetest?!?
14:06	sfan5	obviously not
14:06	parabyte	is there a way to implement this?
14:06	parabyte	i want to configure minetest to run on minecraft port
14:06	sfan5	theoretically yes
14:06	sfan5	umm
14:06	sfan5	that won't work
14:06	sfan5	Minetest uses UDP Minecraft uses TCP
14:06	parabyte	i wont be running a minecraft daemon
14:07	sfan5	so you'd need a dummy minecraft server running that tells people to use minetest
14:07	parabyte	ah
14:07	SylvieLorxu	Eww, TCP for gaming
14:07	parabyte	yeah i can handle that
14:07	parabyte	tcp lol
14:07	SylvieLorxu	I swear Notch is a terrible dev
14:07	parabyte	oh god i hate mojang so much
14:07	sfan5	parabyte: note for converting: if you want full support for all block types you should install some minetest mods and add the conversions into the file
14:07	parabyte	i wonder if i can get my membership fee back for my mojang account?
14:08	parabyte	i will donate to minetest project with that fee
14:08	parabyte	to prove a point
14:08	sfan5	did m$ actually buy mojang yet?
14:08	parabyte	yes
14:08	parabyte	they did
14:08	sfan5	really? have a link to a news article?
14:08	parabyte	2.5 billion
14:08	parabyte	let me look
14:08		sturryz joined #minetest
14:08	ThatGraemeGuy	http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx
14:08	parabyte	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29204518
14:08	* sfan5	reads
14:09	parabyte	i recommend reading the bbc news for a more unbiased article
14:09	parabyte	microsoft will try and make things sound better
14:09		VargaD_ joined #minetest
14:09	sfan5	they always do that
14:09	parabyte	basically my theory is they will port minecraft to C#
14:09	sturryz	what does minetest use for rendering?
14:09	parabyte	ascii
14:09	parabyte	lol
14:09	sfan5	sturryz: Irrlicht, backend selectable: Direct3D 8, D3D 9, OpenGL, some crappy software rendere
14:10	parabyte	okay i forgot to ask
14:10	parabyte	when i port my minecraft map will redstone work?
14:10	parabyte	im guessing its different in minetest
14:10	DusXMT	parabyte: There already is a C# clone, MC X360 edition
14:10	sfan5	!g minetest mod mesecons
14:10	MinetestBot	sfan5: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=628
14:10	sfan5	install that mod
14:10	sturryz	irrlicht is nice, very robust
14:10	sfan5	and enable "Mesecons" checkbox when converting
14:10	sfan5	but be warned: it does not convert every single thing
14:10	sfan5	IIRC
14:11	sfan5	conversion table might be a bit outdated
14:11	jp__	indeed
14:11	parabyte	DusXMT,to be truthful the xb360 version of minecraft is better looking and nicer to play then the java version
14:11	parabyte	i have no problems but since bukkit was taken down it ruined my little server with regular players
14:11	sfan5	maybe thats because it's not java :P
14:12	sfan5	there still is spigot
14:12	sturryz	javascript lol
14:12	parabyte	yeah i know but that is not updated cause the spigot crew just used bukkits code
14:12	sfan5	it is
14:12	sfan5	they provide patches
14:12	sturryz	i am pleased much with irrlicht though, very good engine
14:12	DusXMT	By the way, what language is Minetest written in? (I'll guess C++, but I'm not sure)
14:12	sfan5	based on the last official spigot build
14:12	parabyte	sfan5, im assuming you are a ex bukkit dev?
14:13	parabyte	everyone left that boat
14:13	parabyte	lol
14:13	sfan5	DusXMT: C/C++ Lua for game content and most mechanics
14:13	sfan5	parabyte: me? no
14:13	parabyte	dev's run for the hills lol
14:13	sfan5	I've been here longer
14:13	parabyte	oh god you guys given a busy evening porting my maps to minetest!
14:14	sfan5	another tip: if you want some block from minecraft don't be afraid to try writing a mod
14:14	sfan5	it's easy
14:14	parabyte	actually i know a little C++
14:15	sfan5	mods use Lua btw
14:15	parabyte	oh bad times lol
14:15	parabyte	i only know some C++
14:15	parabyte	lol
14:15	sturryz	lua is easy to pick up if you have experience with another language
14:15	sfan5	even if not Lua is pretty easy
14:15	sturryz	it's very coherent
14:15	parabyte	im the type of guy who uses c shell cause it looks more normal then Bash
14:16	sturryz	what version of lua does minetest use?
14:16	parabyte	when i port my game over to minetest
14:16	parabyte	oh god my server is huge
14:16	parabyte	minetest can do multimap?
14:17	sfan5	partially offtopic: serverlist(servers.minetest.net) stats for the last 10 days: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2014-09-2014.txt
14:17	sfan5	sturryz: 5.1, 5.1 plus some 5.2 additions if you use LuaJIT
14:17	sturryz	ok
14:17	sfan5	multiple maps, not yet
14:17	parabyte	ah that is a slight issue
14:17	sfan5	but you can run multiple server instances
14:17	sfan5	they do not use much RAM or CPU when not having any players
14:18	sfan5	you can do inter-server chat with the IRC mod
14:18	parabyte	my minecraft server only has at most 60 players
14:18	parabyte	im guessing minetest will love that
14:18	kahrl	you could also stack the maps on top of each other
14:18	sfan5	^
14:18	parabyte	i had that with bukkit a irc daemon on it that let me keep a eye on things
14:18	parabyte	stack the maps on top each other!
14:18	parabyte	lol
14:18	parabyte	i never knew minetest was that robust
14:18	sfan5	you probably don't have an MC map that needs the full 30 000 nodes up and down
14:19	sfan5	(and left/right forward/backward too)
14:21	DusXMT	I'm new here (I haven't even booted the game up yet), is node how a block is called in Minetest, or a collection of blocks?
14:22	sfan5	!dev Terminology
14:22	MinetestBot	"Minetest and its components" - http://dev.minetest.net/Terminology
14:22	sfan5	basically yes
14:22	DusXMT	Thank yooo~
14:22	sfan5	(MC -> MT) block -> node, chunk -> MapBlock
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14:29	parabyte	im reading the forums
14:29	parabyte	my map i believe is HUGE will that be a issue?
14:29	parabyte	well my minecraft server tops out at 3gigs big
14:30	sfan5	that could be an issue
14:30	sfan5	using worldedit[Mintest] (= some text) schematics  would be a problem
14:30	sfan5	but .mts can hold much more
14:30	sfan5	and it's read by C++ not Lua
14:31	parabyte	if you are curious about my maps i can provide you a url
14:31	* Amaz	is!
14:32	* sfan5	is a cat
14:32	Amaz	:P
14:37	sfan5	asie: "The Minecraft Drama Generator has been bought by Microsoft." :D :D
14:37	asie	sfan5: They gave me 5 bucks and a Surface Pro.
14:37	sturryz	lol
14:37	asie	I can install Linux on one and buy a blank CD for the other.
14:37	sfan5	sounds like a good deal
14:38	parabyte	sfan5, the mcedit filter your work?
14:38	parabyte	im going to give it a shot :)
14:38	sfan5	yes
14:39	parabyte	my pc has 32 gigs of ram so hopefully it will be able to the dirty
14:39	sfan5	that should be enough
14:40	parabyte	wowzer my main map still loading after 1 minute in mcedit
14:40	parabyte	mcedit is alright but sure be better if they made it render a little more like native minecraft
14:41	sfan5	at least it works
14:42	parabyte	lol i have no idea how to enable your plugin i need the rtfm
14:42	parabyte	lol
14:42	sfan5	put it into the "filters" folder
14:42	sfan5	should work
14:42	parabyte	i just not familiar with mcedit
14:42	parabyte	yeah i did
14:42	sfan5	do you use the one from the first post or from the last post?
14:42	* parabyte	looking for export button pmsl
14:42	parabyte	last post
14:42	sfan5	thats the right one
14:43	sfan5	export?
14:43	parabyte	bit like homer simpson where is the any key!
14:43	parabyte	haha
14:43	sfan5	:D
14:43	parabyte	hmmmmmm
14:44	parabyte	i wont ask i obviously need the manual
14:44	parabyte	ill brb
14:44	parabyte	i have to select an area to export?
14:44	sfan5	yes
14:45	blaise	I wonder if it would be possible to make a mod that introduced the periodic table..
14:45	parabyte	how on earth
14:45	blaise	that would greatly expand the recipes for materials...
14:45	parabyte	but big map
14:45		LemonLake joined #minetest
14:45		LemonLake joined #minetest
14:45	LemonLake	hello
14:45	parabyte	eAK
14:45	parabyte	lol
14:45	LemonLake	im offended
14:45	blaise	LemonLake: good morning.. :)
14:45	sfan5	parabyte: try to select a part of the map for testing
14:45	LemonLake	blaise: ohayou
14:46	sfan5	LemonLake: use SASL or a join delay, we can see your host before your cloak kicks in
14:46	LemonLake	sfan5: i dont actually care about the cloak but ok
14:46	blaise	~drewhost86-164-181-82.range86-164.btcentralplus.com
14:46	Amaz	Why are you offended?
14:46	LemonLake	besides
14:46	LemonLake	if one of my brothers joins you see the realhost anyway
14:46	parabyte	is there any means to export entire map?
14:47	sfan5	parabyte: select all of the chunks
14:47	sfan5	IIRC there was a shortcut for that
14:47	blaise	good god
14:47	parabyte	yes manual time for me
14:47	parabyte	ill be back here later when i know more about mcedit
14:47	parabyte	never used the software package
14:47		LemonLake joined #minetest
14:47	LemonLake	is that better?
14:47	sfan5	no
14:47	blaise	lemonlake is more than 30 hops away from me
14:47	sfan5	didn't work
14:48	LemonLake	* SASL authentication failed
14:48	LemonLake	hmm
14:48		LemonLake joined #minetest
14:48	LemonLake	wbn
14:48	Amaz	Yep!
14:48	LemonLake	good
14:48	LemonLake	i did initially use a join delay, actually
14:49	LemonLake	it seems to have broken tho
14:49	Amaz	(If wbn = What about now)
14:49	LemonLake	or that was just on my windows...
14:49	blaise	yeah, freenode got cracked
14:49	LemonLake	yes amaz, it does
14:49	Amaz	:D
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14:55	blaise	good morning everyone
14:55	LemonLake	"Microsoft acquired Mojang for a smooth 2.5 BILLION dollars."
14:55	blaise	or evening, or which ever it may be
14:55	LemonLake	so this happened
14:55	blaise	LemonLake: we all know
14:57	Amaz	That's a lot of money.
15:02	parabyte	sfan5, select all
15:02	parabyte	then export
15:02	parabyte	yea?
15:03	sfan5	not export but using the filter, correct
15:03	parabyte	figured it out and its doing it
15:03	parabyte	woohoo
15:04	sfan5	parabyte: it keeps you updated every 0.5%
15:04	sfan5	(in the console window)
15:05	parabyte	compression level
15:05	parabyte	i guess thats for the image data that makes up the blocks
15:06	sfan5	not image data
15:06	sfan5	just which node is where
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15:06	parabyte	what would you set it to
15:06	sfan5	the default is pretty ok
15:06	parabyte	ill leave it b
15:06	sfan5	you mean 7
15:07	sfan5	oh
15:07	sfan5	nvm
15:07	parabyte	LOL i may have to leave my pc on for a year
15:07	sfan5	what is it doing?
15:07	parabyte	oh 2 days sorry
15:07	parabyte	its doing it
15:07	parabyte	3 days
15:07	parabyte	lol
15:07	sfan5	is there a moving progress bar
15:07	sfan5	?
15:07	parabyte	4 days
15:07	parabyte	oh how do i stop mcedit recording undo
15:07	sfan5	yeah
15:07	parabyte	i guess there is a man page for that
15:08	sfan5	it shouldn't record an undo
15:08	sfan5	the map is not going to be modified
15:08	parabyte	done
15:08	parabyte	i clicked continue without undo
15:08	parabyte	ill let you know what happens when mcedit comes back to life
15:08	sfan5	look into the console windows
15:09	sfan5	it should say something about the progress there
15:09	parabyte	Creating options for  <module 'AddPotionEffect' from '/home/parabyte/Mcedit/mcedit/filters/AddPotionEffect.pyc'>
15:09	parabyte	Creating options for  <module 'tomtsschem' from '/home/parabyte/Mcedit/mcedit/filters/tomtsschem.pyc'>
15:09	parabyte	Saving file at: /home/parabyte/Mcedit/mcedit/keepercraft.mts
15:09	sfan5	^
15:09	sfan5	looks good
15:09	parabyte	just a HUGE map
15:09	parabyte	iim brave!
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15:12	sfan5	parabyte: it should report some progress in the 15 minutes
15:13	jp__	it's impossible or extremely long to convert an entire MC map to MT
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15:14	blaise	nah
15:14	parabyte	ill leave it to sit for a while sfan5
15:14	blaise	just time consuming
15:14	parabyte	ill go back to it in a moment
15:14	parabyte	ls -lah to get some indepth file information reports 0 bytes in my export file so its working hard and top reports that python is working hard
15:14	jp__	blaise : just an example : 500x500x500 nodes takes about 8-10 hours to convert
15:14	parabyte	i have a firth gen i7
15:15	parabyte	firth! i meant first
15:15	sfan5	jp__: did you use the mts script?
15:15	jp__	yes
15:15	sfan5	it depends on cpu and HDD access speeds
15:15	jp__	much more as any players here
15:15	Amaz	How will you integrate it with the Minetest mapgen once you've converted it?
15:15	parabyte	sata but i cant remember what i got under the hood
15:16		grondilu joined #minetest
15:16	LemonLake	does anyone made a sublime text plugin for minetest?
15:16	parabyte	sfan5, i think im asking too much to convert a huge map. -rw-rw-r--  1 parabyte parabyte    0 Sep 15 16:13 Ikeeper.mts
15:16	* H-H-H	is loving minetest :)
15:17	LemonLake	"0 sep"
15:17	parabyte	0 is the filesize
15:17	LemonLake	oh
15:17	H-H-H	is there a way to get back to the surface lol i fell in a big hole now am lost haha
15:17	Calinou	/teleport 0,20,0
15:17	sfan5	parabyte: it first saves the data in memory because it needs to reorder it
15:17	H-H-H	ty
15:17	sfan5	parabyte: even if you don't need it, this might be interesting: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7263
15:18	parabyte	everything is interesting ;)
15:18	sfan5	:)
15:19	parabyte	how many hours do you think it be until it starts working?
15:19	parabyte	im going to leave it b
15:19	parabyte	do you have a command line only app that takes minecraft map > minetest map
15:20	parabyte	i could run it on my super duper remote server that i pay too much for
15:20	jp__	"sfan5: it depends on cpu and HDD access speeds" -> the CPU/HDD works extremely few during this process (I used a modern computer), it's mainly the MTS converter which is slow
15:20	sfan5	not yet
15:20	sfan5	like I said try converting e.g. a small area of the map just to test
15:20	parabyte	i do not understand 3d stuff at all sfan5 my knowledge goes as far as writing simple irc clients and kludging code
15:21		Billistic_ joined #minetest
15:21	Billistic_	guise.
15:21	Billistic_	best day ever for the porject.
15:21	parabyte	mcedit 1.8 build 788
15:21	sfan5	parabyte: I can try to write a command line app later today
15:21	parabyte	sfan5, im hardcore i take your plugin for 0 to million ;)
15:21	parabyte	stress testing!
15:21	parabyte	lol
15:22	parabyte	be super lots of minecraft admins porting to minetest would be greatful
15:22	parabyte	as mcedit is not really a good tool for conversion
15:22	Calinou	MCEdit is very weird, techniaclly
15:22	Calinou	slow to render, etc
15:22	parabyte	for starters it needs a x installation
15:22	sfan5	it's not rendering anything while it converts
15:23	Calinou	casimir, “The single and only reason to run Windows is, you can be sure that every software that is commercially available runs on Windows.” → wrong, many paid-and-proprietary software is only for OS X
15:23	parabyte	no i know but just be nice to have minetestconverter -I minecraftmap -o minetest.mts
15:23	Calinou	or even… only for GNU/Linux
15:23	Billistic_	may I suggest something about the project?
15:23	Billistic_	this is high overview stuff
15:23	sfan5	surer
15:23	sfan5	sure*
15:23	Billistic_	alright, fuck minecraft.
15:24	Calinou	“The single and only reason to run Windows is, you can be sure that every software that is commercially available runs on Windows.” → playing it on a phone is quite silly, as Windows Phone is nowhere to be found on tablets
15:24	Billistic_	instead of focusing on gameplay
15:24	Billistic_	and items
15:24	Calinou	we don't focus on gameplay too much sadly
15:24	Billistic_	good.
15:24	sfan5	Calinou: stop destroying stuff pls
15:24	Calinou	both Minecraft and Minetest don't care much about balance sadly
15:24	Billistic_	focus on mmorpg style play
15:24	Billistic_	meaning connectivity
15:25	Billistic_	so make it so users can connect to worlds like minecraft
15:25	parabyte	Gameplay could do with work in minetest
15:25	parabyte	i do agree
15:25	Billistic_	and secondly, work on imporing image files that get translated in to pixels
15:25		kruug joined #minetest
15:25	parabyte	Jumping for example is not natural enough
15:25	sfan5	importing image files?
15:25	Billistic_	yep.
15:25	sfan5	can you elaborate?
15:25	Billistic_	well instead of a user sitting there and building a pixel perfect image by hand
15:25	Billistic_	you could import a png file
15:26	parabyte	you mean picture frames like in minecraft Billistic_ ?
15:26	sfan5	isn't there a mod for that?
15:26	Billistic_	I'm thinking mine test could be more like activeworlds
15:26	Billistic_	and a block=a pixel.
15:26	parabyte	Billistic_, there is plugins to change game behaviour
15:26	parabyte	minetest = vanilla minetest
15:26	sfan5	and anyone can write a subgame that focuses on any aspect they want
15:27	Xack	hey Calinou :)
15:27	sfan5	subgame = something like e.g. FTB
15:27	Billistic_	have you guys read snowcrash?
15:27	kaeza	Billistic_, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6751
15:27	kruug	Minetest v0.4.10, what was the release date on this?  Basically, how active is the game/community?
15:27		tadni joined #minetest
15:28	sfan5	kruug: 7. July
15:28	Billistic_	I'm thinking mine test could morph more in to activeworlds/Snow Crash/sketch up
15:28	tadni	Welp, I officially fully separate myself from Minecraft.
15:28	Calinou	hi Xack
15:28	parabyte	tadni, me too
15:28	parabyte	and i run a fully blown minecraft server
15:28	Billistic_	tadni, it's done son.
15:28	parabyte	currently in the process of converting maps
15:29	parabyte	thanks to sfan5 code ;)
15:29	sfan5	kruug: depending on what activity means to you this might shed some light on it: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2014-09-2014.txt
15:29	tadni	I'm hoping that the modding community comes over to minetest in mass.
15:29	* grondilu	wonders if we'll see good C++ developpers turning into minetest after Mojang's acquisition.
15:29	sfan5	oh god so many people from MC...
15:29	Billistic_	but anyway, minecraft in a way made 3D modeling simple for anyone
15:29	sfan5	we already have that, Billistic_
15:29	kruug	sfan5: yeah, that's pretty much a good sign :)
15:29	VanessaE	sfan5: I warned. :)_
15:30	kruug	there's iOS/Android versions of Minetest?
15:30	sfan5	Android official one
15:30	* VanessaE	<----- You heard it here first, folks.
15:30	kruug	or are those just browser stats?
15:30	Sokomine	kruug: pretty active. most people here use the current git version and compile that for themshelves
15:30	sfan5	iOS only an inofficial one thats probably illegal
15:30	Billistic_	sfan, if you guys already have a snow crash 3d world where you can program stuff right in to it then why aren't we chatting on it right now?
15:30	kruug	schweet
15:30	sfan5	kruug: nope, not just browser
15:30	sfan5	Billistic_: one sec
15:30	Billistic_	melt my face sfan5
15:31	Sokomine	hm, if you come from minecraft, be aware that both games share a lot of similarities, but are not equal. that might make it more difficult for some poeple to switch over - because some small things they're used do will then be slightly diffrent
15:31	VanessaE	Billistic_: chatting over IRC is far more efficient than any in-game chat system could ever hope to be :)
15:32		Mikaela joined #minetest
15:32		vanila joined #minetest
15:32	Sokomine	what is a snow crash 3d world?
15:32	sfan5	Billistic_: you mean this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9923&amp;p=151531#p151487
15:32	VanessaE	Billistic_: besides, we have an in-game networked chat module available (which, fittingly, uses IRC as the network)
15:33	* grondilu	had no idea the chat module was using IRC.
15:33	Sokomine	grondilu: there's a mod that connects the ingame chat to irc
15:33	Billistic_	Van, I disagree.
15:33	VanessaE	grondilu: the in-game chat doesn't, by default.  there is a mod that can do it.  IRC mod.
15:33		kruug left #minetest
15:33		twoelk joined #minetest
15:33	grondilu	ok
15:33	Sokomine	most of that irc chatting happens on the inchra network, where several servers share one channel
15:34	Calinou	having to Alt-Tab all the time is annoying
15:34	Billistic_	hey sfan5, no I mean more like Canoma by metacreations
15:34	Calinou	the in-game chat should just be improved
15:34	VanessaE	Billistic_: what is an in-game chat but public discourse with some kind of tab- or tree-based private messaging?
15:34	Calinou	history, colours…
15:34	Billistic_	calinou, play GuildWars 3
15:34	VanessaE	Calinou: agreed
15:34	sfan5	"Canoma is Mac/Win software that allows fast creation of photorealistic 3D models from one or more photographs."
15:34	Billistic_	chat is in the corner all the time
15:34	sfan5	thats something entirely different
15:34	Billistic_	I know
15:35	Calinou	<19Sokomine> most of that irc chatting happens on the inchra network, where several servers share one channel
15:35	Calinou	this is quite insane
15:35	Billistic_	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzfbu9NRXws
15:35	sfan5	!title
15:35	MinetestBot	sfan5: CANOMA TEST#8 「飛び出す絵画」 - YouTube
15:35	Billistic_	that's way old tech too
15:35	Calinou	each high-traffic server should have its own channel
15:36	Billistic_	but basically in the software, if I wanted to build a building I should be able to import a photo of a building
15:36	Billistic_	there might be a builder interface and then a living/playing in the world interface
15:37	VanessaE	Billistic_: that would be immensely complex
15:37	sfan5	^
15:37	Billistic_	think long term project goal
15:37	VanessaE	I could see importing a blender model and 'rasterizing' it
15:37	VanessaE	turning that model into cubes etc
15:37	VanessaE	maybe
15:37	VanessaE	but from a photo?
15:37	Billistic_	why not just be able to import a flat image and then treat any import as a group
15:38	VanessaE	that's way out of scope for a voxel sandbox game
15:38	Billistic_	that's what I started saying when I got here
15:38	Billistic_	get away from just being a game
15:38	Sokomine	calinou: why? it's very practical. i can be on irc even when i don't have time to join a server. and notice thanks to highlighting when someone mentions my name
15:38	Billistic_	that's what microsoft is going to do to it, leave it be a simple game
15:38	Calinou	join several channels?
15:38	Billistic_	they don't want to do what I'm talking about
15:38	Calinou	because right now, chat of several servers gets mixed up :/
15:39	Sokomine	doesn't mean that the ingame chat can't or shouldn't be improved though. but the standalone irc has its advantages
15:39	Calinou	which makes it hard to read backlog
15:39	VanessaE	Billistic_: thing is, it's *supposed* to be a game
15:39	Calinou	the only use is communication between servers
15:39	Sokomine	hm, yes, it's getting a bit crowdedon that channel. seperate channels for larger servers would be good
15:39	Billistic_	Van, so?
15:39	Billistic_	we pivoted
15:40	twoelk	several channals for chatty servers ;-)
15:40	Calinou	Minecraft is far from a simple g ame
15:40	VanessaE	Billistic_: it being Minetest.  I'm not so sure that your idea, while doable, is within the scope of this project.
15:40	kaeza	Calinou, this helps a bit: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/9859954
15:40	Billistic_	started off as a game, ends up being the system everyone uses the internet through
15:40	Calinou	you need several weeks to figure out the whole gameplay
15:40	Sokomine	billistic: hmmm. i'm afraid that won't work well anyway. real buildings can be an inspiration, but...a 1:1 copy is seldom possible. most real buildings have the tendency not to fit into a grid with 1 m sides. even with nodeboxes there are limits
15:41	VanessaE	Billistic_: indeed, there are many real-world buildings that have made it into Minetest, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=9496
15:41	Billistic_	sokomine, maybe think in scale then
15:42	VanessaE	most of those buildings, ironically, are from MC
15:42	Billistic_	there's a dpi limit on the game to start
15:42	twoelk	inchranet is usefull though for centralized moderation of several servers. It is way easier to find a moderater there. someone is always online
15:42	VanessaE	(and are all X-flipped because of an importer bug)
15:42	Billistic_	1=pixel=a foot
15:42	Billistic_	there'd have to be a bit of math done, but maybe you can only import images that are 1000x1000 72 dpi
15:43	VanessaE	and there IS an image import mod but it just draws pixel art
15:43	VanessaE	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6751
15:44	VanessaE	(obviously false-color in those tests; "real" colors can be done)
15:44	Billistic_	ah
15:45	Billistic_	so I mean is that sort of the limit that's faced right now
15:45	Sokomine	billistic_: i'm afraid it requires human intervention and creativity to turn a picture into a building in mc/mt from a picture. a model might be slightly diffrent...if it's 3d already, it could perhaps to some degree be imported and then fine-tuned by the players
15:45	Billistic_	that the pixel art can't be true color?
15:45	VanessaE	Billistic_: naw, that's just a bit of laziness is all
15:45	Billistic_	Soko, that's cool, but someones I feel like it'd be easier to import something as a starting porint
15:45	parabyte	sfan5, that plugin not spitting out any data for an entire map
15:45	Billistic_	point
15:45	parabyte	okay i will select a small region and try it
15:45	VanessaE	kaeza just didn't plug in the right values into his conversion tables to handle the images that were given
15:46	VanessaE	Billistic_: as you can see, what you want IS possible, it's just that no one has really spent much effort on it because no one's really wanted it I guess
15:46	parabyte	sfan5, okay it crashed
15:46	VanessaE	Billistic_: also, there's been talk of making an image-to-terrain importer as well.  e.g. image colors = terrain type, brightness = height, that sort of thing
15:47	parabyte	sfan5, http://pastebin.com/nGW657p9
15:47	Sokomine	billistic_: hm, i can imagine that it might be helpful for complex, huge buildings. similar as setting up the basic structure with worldedit commands
15:47	kaeza	Billistic_, it's configurable. you could make a better image if you can take the time to sample the colors from VanessaE's unifieddyes and create a palette :P
15:47	parabyte	this system only has 12 gigs of ram my other workstation has 32 gigs
15:47	LemonLake	nbe 0.7 is looking really nice
15:47	Billistic_	Soko, yeah I mena some skyscrapers are kinda repetitive...
15:47	Billistic_	what's up with my typing today!
15:48	kaeza	it's tyop day!
15:48	VanessaE	see?  laziness ;-)  *pokes kaeza*
15:48	* kaeza	is not here
15:48	tadni	parabyte: /only/
15:48	VanessaE	sure you are :D
15:49	tadni	MY highested spec'd computer has 8gb of ram.
15:49	Sokomine	that's right. and with skyscrapers, nobody does the inside :-( they usually look pretty impressive but are hollow on the inside - or, at max, have floors and a staircase
15:49	parabyte	i love ram
15:49	tadni	parabyte: I prefer goad.
15:49	VanessaE	Billistic_: minetest is highly programmable in its modding language (Lua).  it's mostly a matter of *want* rather than capability.  almost anything can be done with some effort, especially if you're not too concerned about speed.
15:49	tadni	goat*
15:49	Billistic_	it'd also be helpful for things like putting grafitti on streets and stuff
15:49	VanessaE	(speed, after all Lua is meant to be an interpreted language, even with LuaJIT)
15:50	Billistic_	well I'm not much of a programmer
15:50	Billistic_	so that's why I'm throwing my 2 cents out here
15:50	kaeza	Billistic_, decals? easily doable. look at signs_lib for inspiration
15:50	VanessaE	Billistic_: Lua is easy to learn :)
15:50	jp__	LemonLake : you have a link for NBE 0.7 ?
15:51	LemonLake	jp__, https://github.com/rubenwardy/NodeBoxEditor
15:51	Sokomine	that's bad. on the other hand - programming mods for minetest isn't necessarily difficult. it depends on what you want to do. creating a 3d building from a flat picture would certainly a very big challenge :-) other things are trivial by comparison
15:51	Billistic_	yeah for real.
15:51	kaeza	in MT, anything's possible. if it does not work at first, apply more hack
15:51	VanessaE	Billistic_: also re: decals, look at streets mod too.
15:52	LemonLake	kaeza: +1
15:52	jp__	LemonLake, thanks but confused with versionning
15:52	LemonLake	jp__: how so?
15:52	jp__	I thought that NBE was in 0.6.x
15:52	LemonLake	so did I
15:52	LemonLake	but it's now updated
15:52	Sokomine	there are limits :-) it's still a computer program, running on a turing machine
15:58		Megaf joined #minetest
16:05		stroEkris joined #minetest
16:16	LemonLake	So I added fertilizer to the worldgen
16:17	LemonLake	https://cdn.mediacru.sh/UZz-o9b4VyYQ.png
16:17	LemonLake	ya think it generates a little too much?
16:18		ElectronLibre joined #minetest
16:23		Calinou joined #minetest
16:30		Boto joined #minetest
16:31	Boto	Hi, can minetest be run in raspberry pi?
16:31	sfan5	probably
16:32	Boto	:)
16:32	proller	try compile and run irrlicht demos
16:32	Mikaela	minetest is in Raspbian repositories.
16:32	ElectronLibre	With enough memory, a screen, a mouse and a keyboard, yes.
16:33	proller	0.1 fps ~= yes
16:33	proller	!=
16:33	stroEkris	lol
16:33	Boto	Thanks for your aswers
16:33	ElectronLibre	~= in lua, != in C.
16:34	LemonLake	yes it can
16:34	proller	freeminer on odroid take 10-20fps, but it have 4 cores ang 2g ram
16:35	proller	odroid 15x faster than pi
16:35		asie joined #minetest
16:35	twoelk	LemonLake: what does the pic show? fertelizer laying around? or a now green desert?
16:39		parabyte joined #minetest
16:39	parabyte	sfan5, your plugin wont extract the map
16:39	sfan5	did it work with a small part of the map?
16:40	parabyte	yes
16:40	parabyte	fails with that pastebin with whole map
16:40	parabyte	i got to grips with mcedit now
16:40	sfan5	it says "KeyboardInterrupt"
16:40	parabyte	yeah i stopped it
16:41	parabyte	ctrl c
16:41	parabyte	all those errors indicate a problem to me
16:41	sfan5	those are not errors
16:41	sfan5	it's just where the progras was at the time you stopped it
16:41	sfan5	one sec
16:42	parabyte	oh ill restart it
16:42	sfan5	not yet
16:42	* ElectronLibre	thinks that a try: except KeyboardInterrupt is useful.
16:42	sfan5	uh no
16:43	sfan5	parabyte: replace "print_pc_interval = numnodes * 0.005" by "print_pc_interval = 2500"
16:43	sfan5	then try again
16:43	parabyte	oh okay ill fire up vi
16:43		roboman2444 joined #minetest
16:45	ElectronLibre	sfan5 : I use a try: except KeyboardInterrupt only in a very long while, to disable someone to break it thinking the program is buggy. But try: except is useful sometimes :D.
16:45	parabyte	I have used unices a very long time ctrl C is my natural reaction
16:45		westyvw_ joined #minetest
16:46	Boto	thanks
16:46	parabyte	sfan5, ill let you know what happens in a mo changes have been made
16:46	Calinou	<Boto> Hi, can minetest be run in raspberry pi?
16:46	Calinou	server-onyl
16:46	Calinou	client is too slow, unless you're fine with a slideshow
16:47	Calinou	use https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=1825
16:48	twoelk	parabyte: I onced exported a 640*640*100 map with 4 gb of ram it took four hours and I only noticed when it finished when the resulting map schematic file was not growing anymore
16:48		hoodedice joined #minetest
16:49	sfan5	twoelk: a big part of the time is spent with de-compressing some data and compressing it again
16:49	sfan5	the .mts format is kinda bad for writing it in real-time
16:50	parabyte	sfan5, okay now its doing something console reporting a progress in percent that is weird in itself 3000.0%
16:50	hoodedice	Hi MT Community
16:50	parabyte	lol
16:50	parabyte	but its working now
16:50	twoelk	just saying, wait and wait and wait
16:50	sfan5	parabyte: 3000.0% o.o
16:50	parabyte	lol
16:50	parabyte	i need to read your source work out what your variables mean
16:50	twoelk	importing into Minetest can be the greater challange
16:51	twoelk	lua seems to have a limited amount of memory it can use
16:51	parabyte	sfan5, 17500.0% done
16:51	parabyte	lol
16:52	sfan5	sounds good :P
16:52	LemonLake	twoelk: fertilizer laying around
16:52		Blorph joined #minetest
16:52	twoelk	NYC and Pripyat map were done in slices and stitched togeter ingame
16:53	Blorph	Hello
16:53	twoelk	+h
16:53	sfan5	hello
16:53	ElectronLibre	Hello Blorph .
16:53	Blorph	Hey
16:53	sfan5	parabyte: looking at it right now; btw: in which intervals does the percent update?
16:53	twoelk	LemonLake: aha?
16:55	sfan5	parabyte: the only explanation for that is that box.maxz is smaller than box.minz
16:55	LemonLake	twoelk: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/lI4Dr_pcg-Lx.png
16:55	LemonLake	aha im so immature
16:56		rubenwardy joined #minetest
16:56	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: 09-12 17:38 UTC <Krock> impressive images :)
16:56	rubenwardy	Hi all!
16:56	LemonLake	rubenwardy: nbe 0.7 is awesome
16:56	Blorph	Looks like a mole-mound.
16:56	LemonLake	hm
16:56		realtinymonster joined #minetest
16:56	LemonLake	maybe i need to use a diff texture then
16:57	realtinymonster	yo, LemonLake and OldCoder!
16:57	Blorph	Minetest maybe over run with new people soon..
16:57	twoelk	LemonLake: there was molehills somewhere
16:57	LemonLake	realtinymonster: こんにちは
16:57	rubenwardy	Thanks XD
16:57	LemonLake	Blorph: true that
16:57	OldCoder	realtinymonster, Hi
16:57	LemonLake	Blorph: let's make it good
16:58	realtinymonster	OldCoder: I hear you'd like to talk?
16:58	Blorph	Lot’s of the big MC modders are coming, and might take it over..
16:58	LemonLake	really?
16:58	NakedFury	it would be awesome if that happened
16:58	Blorph	Not really a bad thing, as long as they add good stuff, and not redo it.
16:58	LemonLake	i find it hard to believe that the big mc modders would like to switch to a laggy limietd lua api but hey what do i know
16:59	realtinymonster	Asie did
16:59	LemonLake	true
16:59	realtinymonster	right asie?
16:59	asie	yes
16:59	asie	the problem is
16:59	realtinymonster	probably afk
16:59	realtinymonster	ah
16:59	asie	it might be laggy
16:59	asie	it might be limited
16:59	Blorph	Indeed.
16:59	asie	but it is portable
16:59	LemonLake	yep
16:59	realtinymonster	yes
16:59	asie	it is friendly
16:59	asie	and it is really nice to use
16:59	asie	a joy, compared to Forge
16:59	LemonLake	my only real concern is the community
16:59	realtinymonster	aye
16:59	LemonLake	we're all aware of the type of people minecrafters can be
16:59	asie	yes
16:59	asie	but hey
16:59	asie	they will need to adapt
16:59	LemonLake	they better
17:00	LemonLake	they will not ruin this community
17:00	asie	they can't
17:00	realtinymonster	you guys say this as if minecraft is doomed
17:00	asie	the reason minecraft's sucked so much is because of its original culture
17:00	Amaz	+LemonLake
17:00	LemonLake	it's not
17:00	asie	eloraam, sengir, etc.
17:00	LemonLake	its just a lot of people no longer give a shit about it
17:00	LemonLake	welcome to microsoft
17:00	asie	for many the ms thing is just an excuse to leave
17:00	asie	like me
17:00	realtinymonster	cause fucking M$
17:00	LemonLake	yep
17:00	Tiktalik	sooooooo
17:01	Tiktalik	realtinymonster, mojang is probably doomed
17:01	LemonLake	asie, im checking out your stuff from mc
17:01	LemonLake	its pretty cool
17:01	asie	http://mc.shinonome.ch/
17:01	LemonLake	yeah im on that
17:01	DusXMT	It's kind of interesting that I came in the day of the M$ even for unrelated reasons
17:01	LemonLake	DusXMT: Fair enough :p
17:01	parabyte	sfan5, lol 643234.0% complete
17:01	parabyte	LOL
17:01	* DusXMT	found out about it as it was packaged to Guix
17:01	ElectronLibre	What is going on? Microsoft has finally bought MC?
17:01	LemonLake	ElectronLibre: yep, for 2.5bl
17:02	realtinymonster	yep
17:02	ElectronLibre	O_O
17:02	LemonLake	i don't think it's gonna be that bad to be honest
17:02	ElectronLibre	Mojang is doomed.
17:02	LemonLake	because most people will flock before they can do anything
17:02	LemonLake	:3
17:02	asie	Mojang /is/ doomed.
17:02	realtinymonster	I think all M$ cares about is people using its products
17:02	asie	Mojang is now Microsoft Gaming
17:02	Blorph	Because Notch was afraid of going a bit crazy..
17:02	LemonLake	that's why notch left ages ago
17:02	parabyte	sfan5, 100.0 intervals
17:02	Blorph	http://notch.net/2014/09/im-leaving-mojang/
17:02	LemonLake	he couldn't take the pressure of owning mc when working on his own crap
17:02	sfan5	hm
17:03	parabyte	come on guys mojang owner wanted the 1.5 billion
17:03	NakedFury	but notch hasnt done anything at all since Minecraft
17:03	NakedFury	what pressure is there?
17:03	parabyte	lol it was not the pressure it was the big 1.5 billion
17:03	LemonLake	he hasnt done anything BECAUSE minecraft
17:03	NakedFury	everything he started he dropped
17:03	LemonLake	because of minecraft, essentially
17:03	* ElectronLibre	is afraid by the idea he could see a day C:ProgramFiles(x86)WindowsGamesMojangMinecraft
17:04	realtinymonster	lol
17:04	DusXMT	It's quite possible
17:04	LemonLake	windows live integration
17:04	LemonLake	'nuff said
17:04	Tiktalik	parabyte: 2.5, actually
17:04		Blorph left #minetest
17:04	realtinymonster	they'll make it expensive as shit I bet
17:04	ElectronLibre	2.5 Billion Oo? This is too much xD...
17:04	parabyte	yeah but he had a share in the company
17:04	LemonLake	$50 for base game
17:05	LemonLake	$60 for the nether dlc
17:05	DusXMT	lol
17:05	LemonLake	$20/month for multiplayer
17:05	realtinymonster	haha
17:05	LemonLake	$200 to have a server
17:05	LemonLake	$10 for enchantments
17:05	ElectronLibre	Ho my...
17:05	LemonLake	$0.20 per skin
17:06	LemonLake	+updates only on xbox one
17:06	VanessaE	I could just see that.
17:06	ElectronLibre	Who will pay for this...?
17:06	LemonLake	the parents of many children
17:06	ElectronLibre	It's too expensive...
17:06	VanessaE	note to self:  start charging for Home Decor updates. ;)
17:06	Calinou	<asie> Mojang is now Microsoft Gaming
17:06		Krock joined #minetest
17:06	LemonLake	VanessaE: hehe
17:06	Calinou	“Microsoft Gaming” is already a thing
17:06	Krock	ello.
17:06	ElectronLibre	Hello Krock.
17:06	* Krock	meows
17:06	LemonLake	Krock: you missed literal shit in worldgen
17:07	LemonLake	https://cdn.mediacru.sh/lI4Dr_pcg-Lx.png
17:07	Krock	LemonLake, wut?
17:07	LemonLake	this is gonna be used in the sapling treatment plant
17:07	Krock	wait. browser needs to start first
17:08	Krock	LemonLake, poop?
17:08	jp__	note to self : start elaborating a contract with VanessaE :P
17:08	LemonLake	fertilizer
17:08	LemonLake	but essentially poop, yes
17:08	VanessaE	jp__: heh
17:09	Krock	LemonLake, I would prefer "flat" fertilizer, like the seeds in the new MTG farming mod
17:09	LemonLake	flat?
17:10	Krock	like... lilypads
17:10	LemonLake	interesting
17:11	LemonLake	i could make it random
17:11	jin_xi	have cows place it
17:11	LemonLake	so sometimes it spawns flat fertilizer more frequently
17:11	* ElectronLibre	is shocked by seeing "2.5 billions of dollards" and "MC" in the same sentence... He has got to sleep...
17:11	LemonLake	jin_xi: i was thinking of doing that too, however not everyone plays with mobs
17:11	jin_xi	spawn random shit for those without mobs, because shit happens
17:12	LemonLake	maybe
17:12	OldCoder	realtinymonster, are you the Moontest person?
17:12	jin_xi	no mobs just ghostly feces appearing out of thin air
17:12	realtinymonster	yep
17:12	OldCoder	realtinymonster, What is the status of Moontest?
17:12	LemonLake	what is the main used mob mod?
17:13	realtinymonster	about done with the base, then comes improvement
17:13	OldCoder	Let me know when you feel it's ready for review
17:13	realtinymonster	ok, I will
17:13	OldCoder	o/
17:13	realtinymonster	i'd give it about a week or so
17:13	realtinymonster	\o
17:13	OldCoder	kk
17:14	hoodedice	Chillax
17:14	hoodedice	and thank whatever Deity you worship that EA didn't buy Mojang
17:14	LemonLake	they wouldn't dare
17:14	LemonLake	even ea know's they'd go bankrupt
17:15	hoodedice	I can't even imagine what EA would do if they bought MC
17:15	LemonLake	revert to alpha, change texture pack, major microtransactions and rename the game
17:17	parabyte	i wonder what happens when it gets to 999999.0% sfan5 lol
17:17	parabyte	1% ?
17:17	parabyte	lol
17:18	sfan5	¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:18	twoelk	parabyte: how big is the area you are exporting?
17:19	parabyte	whole map! mwahahahahahaha
17:19	LemonLake	http://i.imgur.com/GJ5SY4g.jpg
17:19	LemonLake	enjoy
17:19	Krock	ElectronLibre, already 2.5?
17:19	hoodedice	oh yeah
17:20	hoodedice	your pick is damaged
17:20	hoodedice	3 hours to fix
17:20	twoelk	oh? will it fit into the 64 km cube? ;-P
17:20	hoodedice	FIX IT NOW: 40 G
17:20	* ElectronLibre	don't understand the meaning of "already 2.5", sorry...
17:20	sfan5	parabyte: redownload the scipt from here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30267315/Minetest/tomtsschem.py
17:20	Amaz	LemonLake: My eyes!
17:21	hoodedice	THEY BURN
17:21	hoodedice	diamond pick is on sale! $19.99
17:21	Krock	...
17:21	parabyte	will the one i been running for ages work?
17:21	parabyte	i dont wanna stop it been going so long
17:21	ElectronLibre	Krock : 2.5 Billions of dollars is the price that Microsoft bought MC (I don't understand the meaning of the question sorry >.< ...).
17:22	hoodedice	Congratulations! You have unlocked diamond pick! On sale for 30,000 dirt or buy with 15 G
17:22	hoodedice	oooh ohhh
17:22	Krock	ElectronLibre, they bought it now? eww.
17:22	ElectronLibre	Yes.
17:22	hoodedice	"Press G to look at your tool"
17:22	realtinymonster	lol
17:22	* Krock	shoots on Steve Ballmer or whoever's the CEO
17:23	hoodedice	Stya someIndianGuy
17:23	ElectronLibre	Krock : https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/ .
17:23	jp__	parabyte : convert an entire map is a crazy idea, just give up for that
17:23	* Krock	likes chargeable battery powered sound boxes.
17:23	* Krock	only needs bateries for sscreen and PC now to make it portable
17:24	kaeza	ssssssssscreen BOOM!
17:24	realtinymonster	lol
17:24	parabyte	jp__, what i want ;)
17:24	jp__	you can't
17:24		RyanGuill joined #minetest
17:25	Krock	I wonder if 1 Billion = 1'000'000'000'000 or less.
17:25	sfan5	0.25% done, 9807 nodes / sec, ETA: 13479 sec(s)
17:25	sfan5	might take a while
17:25		PineappleClock joined #minetest
17:26	ElectronLibre	(I think it's too much expensive but if Microsoft wants to waste money it's its choice. ^^.)
17:26	DusXMT	Krock: I think it's less/the short scale, because that's mostly used in English
17:26	Krock	mhm. I hate those names. wikipedia shows up 1,000,000,000 and I learned it with 1000x more
17:26	hoodedice	1 billion = 1,000,000,000
17:26	kaeza	^
17:26	RyanGuill	1B = 1000 * 1M
17:26	hoodedice	!B = 1,000,000 *1k
17:27	kaeza	when I was a kid, someone talking about "one billion" meant 1000000^2
17:27	* DusXMT	is a user of the long scale
17:27	Krock	=1000000000000
17:27	Krock	1'000'000'000'000 = tat's what I've learnt, kaeza
17:27	hoodedice	''''' everywhere!
17:27	HLuaBot	Unknown command "'''". Try "help".
17:27	jp__	parabyte : I already converted parts of MC maps (~500³ nodes), it took about 10 hours of conversion for each of them; so imagine for an entire map...
17:28	jp__	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=9440
17:28	hoodedice	another bot?!
17:28	twoelk	parabyte: you may have difficulties importing the map into Minetest
17:28	DusXMT	Krock: That's called the long scale, afaik
17:28	kaeza	HLuaBot, stfu
17:28	HLuaBot	Unknown command "stfu". Try "help".
17:28	sruz25	well, it's 1000^4 in europe afaik
17:28	hoodedice	HLuaBot, help
17:28	HLuaBot	Commands: reload, load, unload, plugins, op, deop, devoice, voice, join, part, help, uptime, echo, raw, eval, quit, more, ping, shutdown, config, networks, connect, disconnect, tell -- Use 'help <command name>' to get help with a specific command.
17:28	sruz25	*1000^3
17:28	sruz25	it's 1000^4 in US
17:28	Krock	!c 1000^3
17:28	MinetestBot	1003
17:28	Krock	no.
17:28	Krock	!c 1000**3
17:28	MinetestBot	1000000000
17:28	hoodedice	lol
17:29	Krock	1'000'000'000 = one milliard for me..and I live in europe
17:29	kaeza	!c 255^123
17:29	MinetestBot	132
17:29		RyanGuill left #minetest
17:29	Megaf	Mojansonf? I don't really care
17:29	kaeza	hmm
17:29	* twoelk	wonders wether sfan5 has added some schematic import magic for large files
17:29	sruz25	Krock: yeah, I meant 1000^3
17:29	kaeza	!c 0xCAFEBABE
17:29	MinetestBot	3405691582
17:29	Krock	LOL
17:29	jin_xi	they will get rare to make MC a kinect only game
17:29	sfan5	twoelk: no
17:29	Krock	!c 0xBADC0DE
17:29	MinetestBot	195936478
17:29	sfan5	twoelk: but I'd like some export magic
17:30	Megaf	Why I care is the fact that Notch had promissed that Minecraft would become OpenSource on version 1.0.
17:30	Megaf	That annoys me
17:30	Calinou	never
17:30	Krock	maybe it never gets to versio 1.0?
17:30	Calinou	he said he would do it when sales dropped
17:30	Calinou	1) he's a liar
17:30	Calinou	2) he's a liar
17:30	hoodedice	^^
17:30	Calinou	3) sales will not drop
17:31	hoodedice	3) he's a zwizzed up liar
17:31	Krock	3) 1) and 2) are correct
17:31	Calinou	4) it'd be public domain
17:31	hoodedice	3) Is not a paradox
17:31	kaeza	5) 5 is false
17:31	Calinou	public domain software may not have its source released
17:31	Krock	6) There's no (6
17:31		dbz2k joined #minetest
17:31	hoodedice	4) and if it is, then 4 is also not a paradox
17:31	Megaf	7) This is 7
17:31	sfan5	twoelk: it's very infeffient: <all node data> + <all probabilty data> + <all param2 data> so I need to wait for every data set to complete instead of being able to just write each one into the file instantly; also I need to write a node table into the file before so I can't even write the node data to the file directly
17:31	Krock	9) You forgot number 8
17:31	Megaf	8) Is not after 9
17:31	hoodedice	34) There is a blocky version of it
17:32	kaeza	^_^
17:32	Megaf	One million) What?
17:32	hoodedice	34.2) If there is not blocky version, then a blocky version shall be made
17:32	kaeza	https://xkcd.com/1208/
17:32	hoodedice	42) The answer.
17:32	twoelk	sfan5: extracting large schematic files from mc worlds has been prooven to work several times. Importing large files is a PITA though and has limits set by lua
17:32	Megaf	56) what is the question?
17:32	sfan5	twoelk: .mts doesn't use lua
17:33	sfan5	twoelk: what I'm talking about is that writing .mts file is just inefficient
17:33	twoelk	is there some we2mts converter?
17:34	sfan5	no
17:34	sfan5	do we need one?
17:34	* Krock	reads wikipedia site of M$ "Revenue Increase US$ 86,83 billion (2014)[1]"
17:34	Krock	nojang was cheap.
17:34	Krock	s/n/m
17:34	* twoelk	is sitting on some we files that took days to create
17:35	twoelk	and said we files are too large for mt so I had to split them by hand and gave up some day
17:35	Krock	and nokia's price was "$7 billion", ehm. okay.
17:36		Jordach joined #minetest
17:36	hoodedice	I still miss Nokia
17:36		khonkhortisan joined #minetest
17:36	twoelk	recreating them as mts files from mc would take for ever again
17:36	* twoelk	still has his old Nokia phones
17:37	* hoodedice	has a 2.3 Xperia x10, still better than his htc one vx
17:37		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
17:37	* hoodedice	dreams of buying a jolla in the near future
17:37	sfan5	parabyte: tried the new script yet?
17:37	jp__	twoelk : why you don't import your .we files into a MT world and then re-export them via the WorldEdit's MTS export ?
17:38	twoelk	because too large
17:38	Krock	omg da smile. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1362#issuecomment-55549158
17:38	twoelk	they will not load
17:38	jp__	twoelk : dimensions ?
17:39	twoelk	the interresting ones some 640*640 but others are larger
17:39	hoodedice	catch ya'll later
17:39		Scall joined #minetest
17:39	jp__	indeed yes
17:42	Megaf	I like this one https://xkcd.com/688/
17:43	* twoelk	dreams to convert at least the central part of his favorite old mc world of some 4km*5km someday. It grew in years
17:45	Sokomine	megaf: perhaps he meant the classic version. that, to my knowledge, is open source now. it's called classicube
17:46		ElectronLibre joined #minetest
17:47	Sokomine	twoelk: hm. perhaps you better ought to convert directly then instead of using .mts. both formats are relatively similar to my knowledge
17:47		dv- joined #minetest
17:47	twoelk	tried that and utterly failed
17:48	Sokomine	hoodedice: nokia did make great handies (mobile phones). a good one with android would have been nice...
17:48		JimmyAx joined #minetest
17:48	parabyte	just trying it
17:48	parabyte	unsure if its working
17:49	parabyte	no information being spit out of console yet
17:49	Sokomine	twoelk: how so?
17:49	sfan5	it should report every 0.25%
17:49	* ElectronLibre	forgot to plug the battery wire...
17:49	Sokomine	afaik that's what sfan5's script is doing right now? if i got that right?
17:49	* sfan5	meows at ElectronLibre
17:49	sfan5	Sokomine: doing what?
17:50	stroEkris	Do any of you know how to get the same map generator from v 0.3?
17:50	* ElectronLibre	meows at sfan5
17:50	stroEkris	I like the wierd terrain :3
17:50	parabyte	nah not working maybe i should wait bit more
17:50	twoelk	I must admit I rather spend my spare time playing than coding. So I'll have to waite until someone solves the problem that now even more will have when switching to mt
17:50	parabyte	do i need to make that tweak to it you made?
17:51	sfan5	no
17:51	sfan5	you can if you want
17:51	sfan5	it should output a status faster then
17:51	Krock	stroEkris, to get the same is hard. try to find a lua mapgen which does +/- what you want
17:51		kruug joined #minetest
17:51	kruug	Downloading for Windows, what's the difference between MinGW and non-MinGW?
17:51	Sokomine	sfan5: converting mc worlds to mt?
17:51	sfan5	basically no difference
17:51	sfan5	Sokomine: yes
17:52	Krock	kruug, people say, the on-MinGW (=MSVC) _can be_ faster
17:52	twoelk	ehm, extracting from mc to mts if I got the chat right
17:53	Sokomine	to mts? oh, ok. hm. might be a bit of trouble to import later on? or is it split? an entire world most likely would not fit into memory uncompressed
17:53	* twoelk	wonders iff he missed something vital
17:53	Sokomine	maybe i missed something. didn't read the entire chat
17:54	twoelk	parabyte: you better give a detailed report on what you did if you succeed
17:55		RumiaGloop joined #minetest
17:55	* sfan5	meows at RumiaGloop
17:55	RumiaGloop	I just accidentallied my windows 98
17:56	sfan5	Jordach: https://soundcloud.com/tomorrowworld/tomorrowworld-artists-of-tomorrow-volume-006-pegboard-nerds
17:56	sruz25	is there github on the convertor thingy or something?
17:56	* ElectronLibre	isn't the only one who have got still a windows 98 xD
17:57	* Sokomine	puts a glass of milk in front of sfan5
17:57	* sfan5	noms the milk
17:57	sfan5	sruz25: no
17:57	RumiaGloop	I accidentallied the swap file
17:57	sruz25	how optimized is it?
17:57	RumiaGloop	yes
17:57	RumiaGloop	it works 25% of the time
17:57	sfan5	sruz25: it uses python, so not much
17:58	sruz25	oh
17:58	sruz25	might look at it and optimize it a bit
17:58	Jordach	time to initiate the we're possibly fucked plan b
17:58	ElectronLibre	That's nearly a half-year I didn't start this windows 98 xD
17:58	sfan5	sruz25: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30267315/Minetest/tomtsschem.py
17:59	kruug	man, now I feel like there needs to be a WAILA plugin/mod...I've been playing too much FTB
17:59	sruz25	thanks
17:59	sfan5	WALIA?
17:59	RumiaGloop	What Am I Looking At.
17:59	kruug	tells you what's under the cross-hair
17:59	kruug	Feed The Beast
17:59	sfan5	ah
17:59	kruug	[12:57] <  RumiaGloop>| it works 25% of the time
18:00	kruug	...
18:00	kruug	http://www.feed-the-beast.com/
18:00	kruug	stupid linux auto-copy
18:00	RumiaGloop	a minecraft mod, which adds an on-screen popup to show what's under the crosshair
18:00	* Jordach	can whip something up that uses pointing at with the hud api
18:00	Jordach	grabs node desc + item texture
18:00	* sfan5	meows at Jordach
18:00	twoelk	http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-tools/1261810-eihort-an-opengl-world-viewer-latest-0-3-14-2013
18:00		john_minetest joined #minetest
18:01	twoelk	can't we hijack that ?
18:01	sfan5	uh
18:01	sfan5	what
18:01	sfan5	no
18:01	twoelk	its really fast
18:02	sfan5	if we add stuff to that it won't be fast anymore
18:02	twoelk	true
18:03	twoelk	so maybe alias 7000 mt-node-types nodes to 250 types?
18:03	twoelk	bah need to entwine some nodenoodles
18:04		Taoki joined #minetest
18:05		asie joined #minetest
18:06	sfan5	o/ asie
18:06	Jordach	asie, sad day isn't it
18:07	Calinou	did asie left Minetest at least 3 times?
18:07	asie	No
18:08	asie	I only left once, and even then I just stopped doing stuff
18:08	sfan5	Jordach: http://t.co/5vQNvk7nU7
18:09	twoelk	btw, I have a we version of that Survival-Games map seen on the screenshot of the link I just posted
18:09	sfan5	the whole map?
18:10	twoelk	I think so
18:10	sfan5	my script says a mts export would take about 4.5 hours
18:10	twoelk	did I mention I spend days playing with your tool?
18:11		Shafticle joined #minetest
18:12	Krock	!doge
18:12	MinetestBot	http://i.imgur.com/l0YSsre.jpg
18:13	ElectronLibre	O_o
18:14	ElectronLibre	Doge inside :D.
18:14	VanessaE	sol_invictus: *poke*
18:14	ElectronLibre	Instead of Devil inside ^^
18:15	sol_invictus	VanessaE: yep
18:15		Nascher joined #minetest
18:15	VanessaE	sol_invictus: didn't you also have that entity duplication bug with one of your maps?  the one that /clearobjects couldn't resolve?
18:15	VanessaE	Megaf: *poke*  what about you? ^^^^^^
18:15		PineappleClock left #minetest
18:15	VanessaE	and anyone else?
18:16	sol_invictus	VanessaE: yes, but I'm not seeing it anymore
18:16	VanessaE	where entities just kept multiplying out of control for no discernible reason
18:16	VanessaE	sol_invictus: ok
18:16	Megaf	VanessaE: I dont know, what kind of entity duplication?
18:16	VanessaE	sol_invictus: what game and mods were you running?
18:16	Megaf	I have configure my server to clean all entities
18:16	sol_invictus	btw Vanessa, have you tried logging add_entity calls?
18:17	VanessaE	Megaf: ok, nevermind then
18:17	VanessaE	sol_invictus: not yet; I'm trying to re-establish who else had that problem and what mods they were running.
18:18	sol_invictus	I'm running minetest_game from the official repo and mods are listed on forum
18:18	VanessaE	which mods specifically?
18:18	VanessaE	(or, link?)
18:18	Sokomine	havn't seen much entity duplication lately on servers. perhaps a mobs mod on iirc sfan5's meowtest might count? but i'm not sure if it was that server. sheep multiplied so much it was a real herd
18:18	sol_invictus	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=10030
18:18	sfan5	Sokomine: blockmen fixed that bug
18:19	VanessaE	sol_invictus: wow, so much for yours being a fairly vanilla-ish server :)
18:19	Sokomine	ah, good if he did. though those sheep wheren't that bad :-) good wool providers .-)
18:20	sol_invictus	VanessaE: well, I'm trying not to put every possible mod there
18:20	VanessaE	sol_invictus: understood.  no worries.
18:20		Bitgod joined #minetest
18:20	Bitgod	how deep does minetest 0.4 go??
18:20	Bitgod	ive been digging for 5 min
18:20	Bitgod	lol
18:20	VanessaE	Bitgod: -30912 meters or so.
18:21	Bitgod	i assume minetest is made in c++ only?
18:21	Bitgod	i oly know C#: <
18:21	VanessaE	(or was it -30927?  I forget.  almost -31000 anyway)
18:21	VanessaE	Bitgod:  yes, C++ for the engine, Lua for the game content.
18:22	ElectronLibre	I think it's -30927 Vanessa :).
18:22	Bitgod	i just fell in f'n lava
18:22	* Bitgod	pees on it
18:22	Bitgod	does minetest have water?
18:22	Bitgod	as far as buckets
18:22	LemonLake	Yes.
18:22	Bitgod	awesome
18:22	Bitgod	i really need to learn c++
18:22	Bitgod	i wanna make this game good
18:23	Bitgod	except Minetest is not a good name for it..
18:23	LemonLake	'make this game good'
18:23	Krock	o/ a C# programmer!
18:23	LemonLake	If you want to make mods/subgames, that's done in Lua.
18:23	Bitgod	i mean expand it :)
18:23	DusXMT	Bitgod: you can fork it, if you don't like the direction it's going in
18:23	ElectronLibre	I've already teleported myself at -30000 and flown to 30927. There, I couldn't go higher.
18:23	LemonLake	If you want to change core, that's done in C++.
18:24	LemonLake	+DusXMT
18:24	LemonLake	Bitgod: Can I see what you've done in C#?
18:24	Bitgod	sure, 1 min
18:25	LemonLake	Okay then.
18:26	Bitgod	msg me ur email
18:26	Bitgod	ill invite you to my repo
18:27	rubenwardy	I am making an interpreter for a programming language. What command line argument letter should disable strict mode be?
18:29	rubenwardy	I'll just use --disable-strict
18:29		roboman2444 joined #minetest
18:29	Calinou	--lax
18:30		ThatGraemeGuy joined #minetest
18:30	* ElectronLibre	thinks --district but it's stupid.
18:31	RealBadAngel	--godmode=ON  ;)
18:34	rubenwardy	https://github.com/rubenwardy/beruben
18:34	rubenwardy	:P
18:34	ElectronLibre	What do I need to run it?
18:35	LemonLake	The interpreter just linked.
18:35	ElectronLibre	Ok.
18:38	LemonLake	I don't know what I just did to my eye but I'm either crying in one eye or it is slowly rolling out of its socket.
18:38		Digit joined #minetest
18:39	Digit	can minetest be run on a headless server?   tried installing in gentoo but no matter how i set the useflags, it seems to always want to install numerous x11 deps.
18:40	VanessaE	Digit: yes
18:40	LemonLake	I think this has been asked prior.
18:40	VanessaE	Digit: normally when you build i.e. outside of Gentoo, cmake . -DENABLE_CLIENT=0 -other-flags-here
18:40	VanessaE	or was it -DBUILD_CLIENT=0
18:41	VanessaE	anyway one or the other.
18:41	VanessaE	ah, it's the latter
18:41	* ElectronLibre	perfectly runs a program in BeRuben
18:41	Digit	i was looking to install it through portage like any other package.  :/
18:41	VanessaE	Digit: my build string, for example, is:  cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=/usr -DENABLE_LEVELDB=1
18:42	kruug	question: are you afraid that Microsoft will DMCA Minetest?
18:42	VanessaE	idk what the USE flags are for Gentoo though.  hell I don't even remember who maintains the ebuild for that.
18:42	VanessaE	kruug: nope.
18:42	VanessaE	kruug: Minetest is immune from that
18:42	kruug	yeah?
18:42	VanessaE	yeah
18:42	Digit	i tried with dedicated and server useflags.   thought that should have been enough
18:42	VanessaE	minetest uses no code or content from minecraft and is based in a country where the DMCA has no basis in law.
18:43	LemonLake	^
18:43	VanessaE	not to mention, who would you send the DMCA takedown notice yo?
18:43	VanessaE	to*
18:43	sfan5	VanessaE: github and nearlyfreespeech.net
18:43	kruug	Country of basis...nice!  Whomever registered the domain, for starters
18:43	ElectronLibre	Just a question rubenwardy, why the hell do I need to write all these letters for only a print? xD
18:43	VanessaE	sfan5: "safe harbor".
18:43	rubenwardy	It is an esoteric language
18:43	VanessaE	sfan5: github has to put the code back if it's "takedown"'d.
18:43	VanessaE	if someone files a counterclaim
18:44	ElectronLibre	Ho, I see.
18:45	VanessaE	sfan5: at that point it becomes the lawyers' problem between Microsoft/Mojang and that of whoever's repo it was that was targeted.
18:46	VanessaE	and that's provided that github takes the safe-harbor approach rather than fighting the takedown notice.
18:46	sfan5	rubenwardy: your lang. basically clones befunge?
18:46	rubenwardy	Yeah
18:47	* ElectronLibre	is gonna try to create a language interpreter for the language he "designed" in his notes.
18:48	rubenwardy	But with more features
18:48	Calinou	rubenwardy, hint: software using a GNU license must have a copy of the license + notice at the beginning of each source file
18:48	Sokomine	vanessae: isn't "safe harbor" just an expression for "we (the usa) do what we like anyway, but you can sell it to your people as if their rights didn't get violated"?
18:48	VanessaE	sfan5: and even if the DMCA is used and it becomes a problem, there's a thousand other hosts and registrars out there who are not friendly to the US and its media companies
18:48	rubenwardy	so much text though
18:48	kruug	or, a gitlab repo could be set up...private host, private service, etc
18:48	Calinou	it's a requirement anyway, to avoid ambiguity
18:49		erlehmann joined #minetest
18:49	Calinou	(don't just link to the license, it must be included)
18:49	erlehmann	hey
18:49	erlehmann	long time no see!
18:49	Calinou	hi erlehmann
18:49	VanessaE	Sokomine: in the context of the DMCA, it means that the company hosting the disputed content cannot be held liable for any kind of copyright infringement or similar if they immediately take the content down upon receipt of the legal DMCA notice
18:49	Calinou	erlehmann, Minetest still doesn't support Erlang.
18:49	sfan5	lol
18:49	erlehmann	i am seriously interested, is minetest getting attention in the wake of microsoft minecraft?
18:49	Sokomine	ah, that, yes
18:49	sfan5	yes it is
18:49	Calinou	yes, it got bought for $ 2.5 B
18:49	erlehmann	great! :)
18:50	kruug	yeah, I got linked here from /r/minecraft...
18:50	Megaf	Hey all, Im looking for a good free hosting
18:50	VanessaE	Sokomine: but it also means that if the person who claims rightful ownership of the taken-down content syas that the claim was wrong, they can issue a counter-claim against the host and the company that issued the take-down order, which forces the host to put the content back up. the host is then "safe-harbored" from future DMCA action against that media content.
18:50	Megaf	all I care is good uplink
18:50	erlehmann	does minetest have a single player mode now? :D
18:50	kruug	Megaf: for what?
18:50	Megaf	erlehmann: it does
18:50	VanessaE	Sokomine: at which point, the media company claiming the code is illegal has to take it up with the person who runs the repo, and lawyers talk to lawyers without involving e.g. github.
18:50	kruug	I know of a good CHEAP hosting...
18:50	erlehmann	Megaf yeah a one that is fun.
18:50	rubenwardy	Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/ban.h#L1 ?
18:50	LemonLake	erlehmann: did it never not?
18:50	Bitgod	"It looks like you placed a Dirt Block, that will be $1.99, please sign into your Microsoft account to continue placing this block." - Clippycraft.
18:51	Bitgod	i made a mc funny :D
18:51	sfan5	LemonLake: yes
18:51	erlehmann	LemonLake i remember that in 2011, minetest single player was pretty blande.
18:51	Megaf	kruug: I want a place to put all media files from my minetest server
18:51	LemonLake	i see
18:51	sfan5	Megaf: just any webhosting service
18:51	kruug	Megaf: so, you want an online repo for pictures?
18:51	LemonLake	i think we should consider security with servers now
18:51	kruug	Bitbucket should work for that...
18:51	sfan5	LemonLake: why that?
18:51	LemonLake	because of the incoming communtiy, so much ransomware is gonna come in the form of server mods
18:52	erlehmann	LemonLake i contributed a little and drew the logo and some textures and merged patches in summer 2011. then i got a girlfriend and stopped doing that :D
18:52	Sokomine	vanessae: ah, ok. those laws are difficult and diffrent by country
18:52	VanessaE	hey erlehmann!  long time no see.
18:52	Megaf	I have one host already, but it ran out of inodes...
18:52	LemonLake	erlehmann: I see
18:52	erlehmann	hello VanessaE. you were the person making the flower mods?
18:52	Krock	oh hi erlehmann. nice to see you back
18:52	kruug	Megaf: just screenshots?
18:52	kruug	why not imgur?
18:52	Megaf	kruug: you dont get it :P
18:52	VanessaE	erlehmann: the person who maintained it yeah. part of it is in minetest_game now
18:52	kruug	no, I don't
18:52		Cen_ joined #minetest
18:52	Megaf	I mean, all media files from minetest and mods
18:52	Megaf	we call that remote host
18:52	sfan5	erlehmann: didn't you do some poorly drawn comic about maintaining minetest-delta?
18:52	erlehmann	i still have graphics from which not all are used! http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/icons/minetest/
18:53	Krock	die welt ist gar nicht so XD
18:53	VanessaE	Sokomine: indeed so - the DMCA is strictly an American thing; other countries have their own implementations of it I guess
18:53	erlehmann	sfan5 hahaha, yess. http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/minetest-dad.png
18:53	erlehmann	25-Jul-2011 02:47
18:53	sfan5	:D
18:54	erlehmann	i have continued with pixel art and now have made emoji for gnu unifont
18:54	LemonLake	sourcetree spotted
18:54	erlehmann	coming soon to a unifont near you
18:54	erlehmann	here http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/icons/unifont-symbols-emoji.png
18:54	erlehmann	INSTALL GNU UNIFONT
18:54	erlehmann	:D
18:54	sfan5	I think I already have it installed
18:54	erlehmann	it has dragons and stuff
18:54	sfan5	zsh/2 2501 % sudo pacman -Q bdf-unifont
18:54	sfan5	bdf-unifont 7.0.03-1
18:54	erlehmann	sfan5 🐇
18:54	sfan5	I can't read that
18:54	erlehmann	🐘🐘🐘
18:55	sfan5	thats an elephant
18:55	erlehmann	it should be a rabbit and three elephants
18:55	kruug	can't read that :(
18:55	sfan5	hm
18:55	erlehmann	burger! 🍔
18:55	LemonLake	03f354
18:55	rubenwardy	Calinou: done :P
18:55	erlehmann	here is the ttf http://unifoundry.com/unifont.html
18:55	erlehmann	unifont upper contains the animals and stuff
18:56	sfan5	<3 http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/icons/minetest/companioncube.png
18:56	erlehmann	hehe
18:56	erlehmann	i have old screenshots! http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/screenshots/games/minetest/minetest-axles-gears.png
18:56	sfan5	http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/icons/minetest/unknown_block.png
18:56	sfan5	i like that one
18:56	sfan5	we should use it
18:57	erlehmann	harr harr
18:57	erlehmann	:D
18:57	erlehmann	what is currently used?
18:57	erlehmann	a super mario question mark block i hope? :D
18:57	LemonLake	no
18:57	sfan5	nah
18:57	Krock	lol, looks like the "Er ist tot, Jim!" error page of chromium
18:57	LemonLake	just a little texture that says 'missing node' or something
18:57	kruug	ugh...hour-long corporate expense reporting meeting...
18:57	erlehmann	i remember working on the rails http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/screenshots/games/minetest/minetest-rail.png
18:57	sfan5	https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/textures/base/pack/unknown_node.png
18:58	erlehmann	Krock i was more thinking of sad mac or so
18:58	sfan5	the old cobble texture..
18:58	sfan5	ahh
18:58	Krock	k.
18:58	Calinou	rubenwardy, yes, headers like this
18:58	sfan5	those were times
18:58	LemonLake	erlehmann: what is this girlfriend thing you speak of?
18:58	erlehmann	sfan5 by all means, take my unknown block. you can have it under LGPL and/or CC-BY-SA 3.0 or whatever minetest was.
18:58	LemonLake	where do i buy one?
18:59	Calinou	but you should add a copyright holder at the top of each file
18:59	Calinou	you didn't add one
18:59	erlehmann	hahaha
18:59	Calinou	Copyright (C) 2013 celeron55, Perttu Ahola <celeron55gmail.com>
18:59	Calinou	this form is good
18:59	Krock	updateto 2014!
18:59	Calinou	so adapt it to your nick and current year
18:59	Calinou	and name/email
18:59	erlehmann	LemonLake i am not an expert on the topic. i had several since then. recently, two left me at the same time :(
18:59	LemonLake	'at the same time'
18:59	LemonLake	no wonder
19:00	kruug	two girlfriends in a row, they both left me on Thanksgiving weekend...
19:00	kruug	two year gap between, but still...
19:01	sfan5	erlehmann: maybe you care: mobile usage of minetest has reached record highs: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/serverlist_stats_2014-09-2014.txt
19:01	LemonLake	omg i fucking care
19:02	ElectronLibre	There is a meow.minetest.net O_O!?
19:02	sfan5	yes
19:02	LemonLake	that's sfans subdomain i assume
19:02		PenguinDad joined #minetest
19:02	sfan5	correct
19:02	Calinou	kruug, here, girlfriends are 404
19:02	LemonLake	"Windows Vista       -> 1807  03.62%"
19:02	Calinou	(or even 403)
19:02	sfan5	Calinou: france doesn't have girlfriends?
19:02	Calinou	here = in my case
19:03	LemonLake	we really gotta shut down buildcraft
19:03	ElectronLibre	Windows 7 --> 60.10% Wow.
19:03	kruug	shut down buildcraft?
19:03	LemonLake	yes
19:03	LemonLake	or at least stop them doing their thing
19:03	RealBadAngel	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_rP-f6VCY&amp;feature=youtu.be
19:03	sfan5	buildcraft = some random android client of minetest that sucks
19:03	LemonLake	whoa wtf
19:03	LemonLake	rba
19:03	LemonLake	what is this saucery
19:03	RealBadAngel	how do you like it ?
19:03	kruug	oh, not the Minecraft mod, buildcraft
19:04	LemonLake	i like it on my chips
19:04	jp__	RealBadAngel : better, but in a slight white color please
19:04	RealBadAngel	i like blueish ones ;)
19:04	LemonLake	make it a setting?
19:04	Calinou	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&amp;px=MTc4OTI
19:04	Calinou	in before shitstorm
19:05	kruug	RealBadAngel: now add WAILA-like support!
19:05	jp__	highLIGHT, light is white
19:05	LemonLake	again?
19:05	RealBadAngel	but this feature is textureable, one can make it any color he wants to
19:05	Calinou	this is interesting for textures: http://neotextureedit.sourceforge.net/
19:05	RealBadAngel	my "halo.png" texture is just all blue
19:05	LemonLake	ive seen this before
19:05	PenguinDad	jp__: light has no specified color
19:05	LemonLake	its essentially filterforge for linux
19:05	PenguinDad	Also…
19:06	PenguinDad	Hi everyone!
19:06	LemonLake	konn
19:06	erlehmann	sfan5 mobile? android?
19:06	sfan5	yes
19:06	erlehmann	show and tell
19:06	sfan5	there's also an iOS clone
19:06	LemonLake	which is the most popular one
19:07	sfan5	but the iOS is not official
19:07	erlehmann	interesting!
19:07	sfan5	erlehmann: forum post about android: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&amp;t=9389
19:07	LemonLake	can we not flag buildcraft? is that not a thing?
19:07	LemonLake	or do google no longer care?#
19:07	kahrl	whoa, it's erlehmann :O
19:07	sfan5	LemonLake: they did what the license requires
19:07	LemonLake	:/
19:08	PenguinDad	erleh​mann is here :O
19:08	erlehmann	:D
19:09	sfan5	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1635
19:09	sfan5	!title
19:09	MinetestBot	sfan5: Infinitely better unknown node texture by @erlehmann by sfan5 · Pull Request #1635 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
19:09	erlehmann	harr harr
19:09	erlehmann	:D
19:09	sfan5	:)
19:10	Calinou	http://i.imgur.com/rapDmDa.png
19:10	Calinou	this is minetest.net traffic
19:10	LemonLake	oooh
19:10	LemonLake	this is both problem and unproblem
19:10	sfan5	!tw https://twitter.com/asiekierka/status/511592374024544257
19:10	LemonLake	i remember we were getting a lot of peeps from reddit and put an image on the front page, that was good
19:11	MinetestBot	Okay, it's official: I'm working on my own sandbox game. Not as close to Minecraft as any of the Minecraft clones around. Not even 3D. (@asiekierka)
19:11	sfan5	asie wat r u doing?
19:11	PenguinDad	sfan5, erlehmann: +1 for that texture
19:11	asie	sfan5: A game.
19:11	sfan5	asie: terraria-like?
19:11	asie	Nope.
19:11	asie	Top-down, if anything; not platformer
19:12	Bitgod	o
19:12	Bitgod	GTA: Minecraft Edition
19:12	Bitgod	:D
19:12	PenguinDad	No 1D game? :(
19:12	sfan5	i see
19:12	Bitgod	0D :D
19:13	LemonLake	i think there are a lot of 1d flash games
19:13	Bitgod	so powerful, dimensions cease to exist
19:25	Bitgod	i found a bug in 0.4.10
19:25	Bitgod	you cant break blocks fast enough by rapidly pressing the use button
19:25	Bitgod	lol
19:29	blaise	is this mod https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3291 and this mod https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7302 compatable? or do the same thing?
19:29	blaise	sudoman vs Jordan4ibanez
19:29		geggam joined #minetest
19:30	Calinou	Bitgod, you hold mouse buttons
19:30	kruug	Bitgod: yeah, you don't hit rapidly...
19:32	erlehmann	sfan5 can i have a screenshot using the texture?
19:32		zat joined #minetest
19:34		Vazon joined #minetest
19:35		aaaaa joined #minetest
19:37		PilzAdam joined #minetest
19:42	Bitgod	oh
19:42	Bitgod	but what if i want to? :P
19:42	Bitgod	like super breaking :
19:43	kruug	write a mod!
19:43	Bitgod	i dunno how in c++
19:43	Bitgod	im used ot java
19:43	Bitgod	lol
19:43	ElectronLibre	Learn lua ^^.
19:43	Bitgod	oh lua
19:43	Bitgod	hmmm
19:43	Bitgod	ok ill puts with it
19:44	Bitgod	i love u
19:44	* Bitgod	pets
19:45	Jordach	Bitgod, so Minecrosoft pissed ya off then?
19:46	stroEkris	Bitgod: C++ is the main thingy, while Lua is being used for mods, gui etc
19:47	Bitgod	Jordach yes
19:47	Bitgod	:)
19:47	Calinou	there's a mod generator for static nodes
19:48	Jordach	Bitgod, i'm already working on: microsoft is coming, get the we're going to get fucked plan b in action
19:48	sruz25	optimized the conversion thingy a bit, I don't have mc map at hand though http://pastebin.com/afZaXttH
19:48	sruz25	and diff of the two versions http://pastebin.com/3JmPMPTL
19:48	Jordach	sruz25, alias bedrock to default:cloud
19:48	Jordach	it's unbreakable afaik
19:48	Bitgod	Jordach, as am i
19:48	Calinou	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=9939
19:48		asie joined #minetest
19:48	Bitgod	expect alot of new minecraft spinoffs soon
19:48	Bitgod	lol
19:49	Calinou	sruz25, I have a bedrock mod you can use
19:49	Jordach	wait what
19:49	Jordach	+20 users today
19:49	Jordach	ho shit
19:49	Calinou	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=9231
19:49	Bitgod	yep
19:49	Calinou	unbreakable, cool texture
19:49	Bitgod	we're going back to the roots
19:49	Bitgod	where minecraft was birthed from
19:49	Calinou	node name is bedrock:bedrock
19:49	Bitgod	minetest :D
19:49	Jordach	so Bukkit, Spigot and CB are pointless after all
19:50	Jordach	i can see at least three paths: 1) modding lives, but current method dies (eg, API happens) 2) continue as normal, eg, the deal never happened, 3) modding dies altogether and DLC for everyone....ugh
19:51	kruug	I hope it's either 1 or Forge stays...
19:51		Vazon joined #minetest
19:51	Bitgod	if 3 happens
19:51	Bitgod	we're fine
19:51	Bitgod	minetest is here
19:51	kruug	bukkit/canary/etc can leave...
19:51	Bitgod	it's usable
19:51	Bitgod	:D
19:51	Bitgod	microsoft cant stop us
19:51	Jordach	Bitgod, ask ecutruin on that...
19:51	Bitgod	minetest came out before minecraft
19:51	Bitgod	hell minecraft was based on infiniminer
19:52	Bitgod	which was based on minetest
19:52	Bitgod	:)
19:52	ecutruin	What's up?
19:52	Jordach	Bitgod, Ecu the ender storage dude lives here too :3
19:52	Bitgod	he stores the endermen?!
19:52	Bitgod	so hes King Ender?!
19:52	ecutruin	Yeah.. I'm one of Minecraft's "big" modders.
19:52	* Bitgod	bows before your feet
19:52	ecutruin	But w/e...
19:52	Bitgod	i respect thy
19:52	ecutruin	Why was I pinged?.. O.o;
19:53	Jordach	just letting other modders know you're here ;3
19:53	Bitgod	it's a pulse check :)
19:53		aaaaa joined #minetest
19:53	ecutruin	Ah.
19:53	SylvieLorxu	ell, that didn't take long
19:53	SylvieLorxu	*Well
19:53	ecutruin	People freaking out over Microsoft's acquisition?
19:53	Jordach	yarp
19:53	SylvieLorxu	Yeah
19:53	SylvieLorxu	Way worse than I expected
19:53	sruz25	I only optimized it so that it doesn't always go through whole list (which is O(n)), now it should be O(1) when it looks for conversion., so I don't really know what the deal with bedrock is
19:53	SylvieLorxu	Not that Microsoft has a good reputation
19:53	SylvieLorxu	But I didn't expect it to be this bad
19:54	ecutruin	Well.. Minetest should be fine.. I don't know why you guys would be freaking out.  MT doesn't contain MC code.
19:54	Jordach	Bitgod, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHfmoG4MUIQ i may have copied the lidded chests
19:54	kruug	SylvieLorxu: I think the biggest commotion is the openness that was promised with Minecraft, as well as Notch saying that he'd never sell out
19:54	PenguinDad	So much talk D:
19:54	SylvieLorxu	Nah, I mean the sudden influx of people interested in Minetest
19:54	Jordach	SylvieLorxu, even the redditors at /r/minecraft were saying go there
19:54	kruug	I'd rather have seen him step down and leave Jeb to take care of it rather than just outright sell Mojang
19:54	SylvieLorxu	kruug: People are surprised commercial games selling out? :P
19:55	kruug	SylvieLorxu: it's not viewed as commerical...it's still viewed as indie
19:55	Jordach	Bitgod, i'm basically Slamacow around here, as i mastered rendering
19:55	kruug	well, until the ink has dried at least...
19:55	Bitgod	nice
19:55	kruug	^
19:55	Bitgod	sucks to be notch
19:55	erlehmann	ah i remember https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=3605
19:55	erlehmann	:D
19:55	Bitgod	he could of made mc even bigger
19:55	SylvieLorxu	kruug: Indie? With a huge company and that profit? :P
19:55	Bitgod	oculus rift + minecraft = win
19:56	Bitgod	now imagine
19:56	Sokomine	ecutruin: which mods have you done? just asking out of curiousity. i'm not very familiar with mc mods (mc doesn't run well on my machine)
19:56	Bitgod	facebook buying microsoft
19:56	ecutruin	The community broke Notch.. guys.. he didn't do anything bad. >.<
19:56	kruug	SylvieLorxu: indie because there's no actual dev studio behind it
19:56	kruug	it's just Notch/Mojang
19:56	erlehmann	Bitgod „could of made“ … is that internet slang or are you not english native speaker?
19:56	SylvieLorxu	Hmm
19:56	erlehmann	Bitgod i read that from time to time.
19:56	ecutruin	Sokomine, I'm the designer/artist behind Ender Storage.  In addition, I sparked the "frames" of RedPower and a few things in various other mods.
19:56	SylvieLorxu	Oh well, Community > Indie
19:57	Jordach	"All good things must come to an end"
19:57	ecutruin	Notch never wanted to be one of the biggest people in the world.  The community attacked him on top of that.. basically turning the whole thing into a curse.
19:57	kruug	quote from 2012: "He also promised that he would release the game source code as "some kind of open source".  This, of course, wouldn't be done until sales start dying and a minimum time has passed.  Well, with Minecraft officially releasing in November 2011, I'd say we're close to the "minimum" timeframe.  We all know Notch doesn't like to wait."
19:58	erlehmann	kruug oh no, notch lied to us!
19:58	Bitgod	sadly
19:58	Bitgod	notch cant release shit now
19:58	kruug	erlehmann: yup
19:58	Bitgod	microsoft owns his ass
19:58	kruug	Bitgod: not true
19:58	erlehmann	who would have guessed that someone who writes proprietary software lies.
19:58	Bitgod	wtf?
19:58	kruug	he just can't release anything under the Mojang name
19:58	ecutruin	Wow.. you guys are so wrong..
19:58	SylvieLorxu	Oh well, we have Minetest :P
19:58	Sokomine	ecutrin: ah. thanks. doesn't tell me much sadly as i don't know much about that gameplay aspect
19:58	* PenguinDad	gets a sale killing gun :>
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19:59	ecutruin	Notch is not owned by Microsoft.. Notch sold everything TO Microsoft so that he could be done.. with the community.. the stress.. everything.
19:59	kruug	right
19:59	ecutruin	It is the community's fault it all happened.
19:59	Bitgod	thus selling minecraft ip
19:59	sfan5	erlehmann: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/Hf6ygelXTLn-.png
19:59	Bitgod	so he cant release source
19:59	Bitgod	since its paid for by ms
19:59	Bitgod	else ms sues him into oblivion
19:59	kruug	yes, as opposed to following through and letting the source be open...
19:59	erlehmann	sfan5 it looks like some kind of cancer! :D
19:59	kruug	or, stepping down and removing himself from Mojang
20:00	ecutruin	Well yeah.. but he hasn't been a part of Minecraft.. or even really Mojang for a few years now.. really.
20:00	asie	ecutruin: Of course it is.
20:00	Bitgod	lol erlehmann
20:00	kruug	ecutruin: then what's he got to worry about?
20:00	asie	Notch didn't have anything from the 2.5 billion he couldn't have had from open-sourcing the game
20:00	erlehmann	if notch had really meant that “i'll release source”, he would have done it years ago.
20:00	asie	I mean, he could just have open-sourced the game *and* left MOjang
20:00	kruug	he got $1.2 billion...
20:00	asie	but he went for the money patch
20:00	Sokomine	hm, if it's about mc sources...perhaps it's just a question of time. in 20 years or so, perhaps...wasn't the code of ms-dos eventually released? or some extremly early windows version?
20:00	kruug	the rest went to the rest of Mjoang
20:00	kruug	Mojang
20:00	Bitgod	asie i would too
20:00	Bitgod	$ talks
20:00	Bitgod	:P
20:00	ecutruin	Notch probably did mean it.. when he said it.. but the community turned toxic against him..
20:01	sfan5	sruz25: the optimized version looks rather impractical when creating new node conversion
20:01	stroEkris	MC's community is very toxic
20:01	kruug	Sokomine: yes and no
20:01	kruug	Sokomine: it's there to study and look at, but not to use
20:02	sruz25	I don't really know that much about the formats, but not having O(1) when looking for the block seems ...
20:02	sfan5	erlehmann: :D
20:02	sruz25	unnecesarry
20:02	Sokomine	kuurg: ah, ok. didn't check that out further. it is long outdated anyway
20:03	Jordach	https://soundcloud.com/djgammer/itsqwerkouttime <3
20:03	erlehmann	ecutruin it does not matter. he lied.
20:03	kruug	Sokomine: To access this material, you must agree to the terms of the license displayed here, which permits only non-commercial use and does not give you the right to license it to third parties by posting copies elsewhere on the web.
20:03	* ecutruin	smacks erlehmann.
20:03	ecutruin	You're an idiot.
20:03	sfan5	o.o
20:04	sruz25	sfan5: like if you want to add new block?
20:04	sfan5	yes
20:04	sruz25	s/block/node
20:05	sruz25	but looking at that O(n) is just painfull
20:05	erlehmann	ecutruin we cannot reason about his internal state reliably. but we can judge him by his actions. not that it matters!
20:06	ecutruin	erlehmann, again...I'll repeat...you're an idiot.
20:07	Bitgod	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXSjrq469CA
20:07		ElectronLibre left #minetest
20:07	Bitgod	good itming :P
20:07	Jordach	no elitism in here please
20:07	Jordach	#minetest-dev is the place for that
20:07	Jordach	>:D
20:07	sfan5	sruz25: I got a good idea: convert the array to table before starting
20:07	sfan5	!title
20:07	MinetestBot	sfan5: You Are An Idiot 10 HOURS - YouTube
20:07	kruug	!artist
20:07	Bitgod	lol
20:07	erlehmann	ecutruin forget it.
20:07	sfan5	it doesn't have that yet
20:07	sfan5	:P
20:07	erlehmann	i do not wish to antagonize anyone.
20:08	erlehmann	(right now)
20:08		nman3600 joined #minetest
20:08	ecutruin	You're badmouthing Notch when he ended up making a decision for his better health.. driven to such a decision by overwhelming stress and actual harassment/threats from the very community he started.
20:09		Miner_48er joined #minetest
20:09	sruz25	sfan5: hmm, that would work too
20:09	ecutruin	I'm sorry.. but trying to say Notch is in the wrong.. is being an idiot.
20:09	kruug	ecutruin: why couldn't he just leave the company and wash his hands of Minecraft?
20:09	kruug	if that was his reasoning...
20:10	sruz25	the point is: having so heavily used function O(n) is not wise if it's possible to avoid it
20:10	nman3600	Everywhere I go it' all about minecraft being bought! DL
20:10	nman3600	D:*
20:10	erlehmann	ecutruin i think he was in the wrong all along, for releasing proprietary software. i believe everyone who does that is excerting undue influence on others' lives.
20:10	Bitgod	nman3600
20:10	Bitgod	now wait for .... facebook to buy microsoft
20:10	kruug	if he wanted out, hand the deed to the company over to Jeb and walk...
20:10	Bitgod	imagine minecraft on facebook
20:10	Bitgod	LOL
20:10	nman3600	I will be pissed.
20:10	Bitgod	id probably kill myself
20:10	Bitgod	lol
20:11	nman3600	I can't believe mojang did that.
20:11	vanila	erlehmann++ good point
20:11		raffahacks joined #minetest
20:11	tadni	To be fair, Not was making millions while at Mojang -- he could have retired and had people cover for him without selling.
20:11	tadni	Notch*
20:11	kruug	^
20:11	erlehmann	and we see now a consequence of that.
20:11	PenguinDad	IJDGAF about microsoft buying mojang
20:12	erlehmann	if linus torvalds would be selling out to microsoft, nothing would happen :D
20:12	erlehmann	like, no rage or nothing
20:12	Bitgod	Linux Torvalds
20:12	grondilu	What if Facebook had bought Mojang?  Would people have been even more pissed?
20:12	Bitgod	NEW OWNER OF MS!
20:12	Bitgod	imagine :D
20:12	erlehmann	it is only that minecraft is proprietary that there is outrage
20:12	Bitgod	grondilu, fuck yes
20:12	Bitgod	it would be nuclear
20:12	sfan5	thats not gonna happen
20:12	kruug	grondilu: yep
20:12	erlehmann	prove me wrong!
20:12	erlehmann	grondilu MINECRAFT OCULUS RIFT!
20:12	Bitgod	MINECRAFT OCULUS RIFT! with FRIENDS!
20:13	raffahacks	Is it just my impression, or discussions here go in a crazy way?
20:13	* ecutruin	sighs.
20:13	tadni	It's a lot more money than he would ever need to survive, and now notch has a lot, a lot more money than he would ever need to survive. Which is fine, bu ultimately, it's  a "I rather have a billion dollars" than millions, situation.
20:13	Bitgod	invite your facebook friends so they join you in a adventure to buy blocks
20:13	Bitgod	$1 for dirt block, etc
20:13	sruz25	well, it's not like MS could achieve much w/ linux, cuz anyone could fork it
20:13	PenguinDad	lol
20:13	sruz25	that's not the case of minecraft
20:13	kruug	"You have placed your alloted 10 bricks.  Place more by paying $9.99 or inviting 10 friends!"
20:13	Bitgod	lol kruug i love u for that one
20:13	erlehmann	sruz25 that is the point. minecraft is done. but any free software project will stay.
20:14	kruug	sruz25: for now...
20:14	Bitgod	how much $ u wanna bet the commnunity will show up at microsoft's hq w/ pitchforks
20:14	tadni	erlehmann: How is Minecraft "done"?
20:14	sruz25	erlehmann: well, openoffice did not
20:14	Bitgod	and demand mojang's buyout to be reversed
20:14	Bitgod	lol
20:14	kruug	if Microsoft bought Linux, all they'd have to do is do a Major version release and redo the license
20:14	sruz25	there's still its fork, but not OO
20:14		Broam joined #minetest
20:14	ecutruin	Honestly guys how old are you?  Do you guys have ANY clue what it is like being in even lower management, much less owning one of the most successful companies in the world?
20:14	* ecutruin	sighs.
20:14	tadni	It's a recognized brand. A majority of users will still play a Minecraft owned by MS.
20:14	ecutruin	You guys attacking Notch are just rediculous.
20:14	kruug	ecutruin: do you?
20:14	Sokomine	bitgod: not "a block of dirt wants to be friends with you. accept? y/n"
20:14	ecutruin	Yes.
20:14	ecutruin	I'm not a child.
20:15	geggam	how can one buy linux ?
20:15	kruug	ecutruin: have you owned a company?
20:15	kruug	geggam: the kernal
20:15	Bitgod	Sokomine, there's no dos prompt on facebook? :P
20:15	kruug	you can buy the code
20:15	erlehmann	„Microsoft Minecraft“
20:15	Broam	What else is new. Kids are gonna overreact. Last week it was gamergate now it's mojang.
20:15	erlehmann	it really goes well
20:15	sruz25	geggam: you can buy the name
20:15	erlehmann	the alliteration!
20:15	tadni	ecutruin: Mojang was by no means, "one of the most sucessful companies in the world".
20:15	Sokomine	bitgod: no idea :)
20:15	sruz25	geggam: but you can not revert copyleft
20:15	tadni	They surely aren't in the top 100.
20:15	DusXMT	geggam: simply, they can buy the trademark, which is owned by Linus. We'd simply fork the existing codebase and continue under a different name
20:15	Bitgod	call it...
20:15	geggam	right ... see mysql  and mariadb
20:15	Bitgod	Linus!
20:16	Bitgod	er Linex
20:16	ecutruin	I'm 31 years old.. and right now, I actually work as management for a small team.  In addition, I have been a co-manager of a start-up as well.  Its not all happiness and sunshine.
20:16	geggam	openoffice .. libreoffice
20:16	kruug	ecutruin: but you'd rather sell-out than manage it properly?
20:16	ecutruin	kruug, Notch wasn't management.
20:16	geggam	offer me 2.5 billion and call me whatever you want :)
20:16	ecutruin	Period.. it wasn't in his nature.
20:17	kruug	ecutruin: but he could still have left without selling out
20:17	tadni	ecutruin: I'm fine that he did it for more money, everyone has a price ... but he did not need to sell, to be disconected from Mojang and live the rest of his life without working another day.
20:17	PenguinDad	Fun fact: My given name is Linus
20:17	erlehmann	bye for now. until later
20:17	Broam	What you folks should be worried about is how you're going to deal with all the entitled 10-year-olds who come to visit
20:17	tadni	PenguinDad: Nah, I give you the name Thaddeus.
20:18	kruug	Broam: make the channel +i ?
20:18	tadni	Broam: My 10 y/o cousin is obssesed with minecraft.
20:18	* PenguinDad	squawks at tadni
20:18	Sokomine	broam: install a no-guest-name-mod. helps a lot already against those questionable android clients
20:18	* ecutruin	just shakes his head.
20:18	Broam	heh.
20:18	Bitgod	LOOK
20:18	Bitgod	stop fighting
20:18	Bitgod	https://mojang.com/
20:18	Bitgod	read this and hush
20:18	Bitgod	lol
20:19	Broam	I've been looking to move to minetest more seriously for a while, and I guess this is the push I needed.
20:19	* ecutruin	would never move his modding to MT.
20:19	kruug	Bitgod: "He’s decided that he doesn’t want the responsibility of owning a company of such global significance."  Then he could have walked without selling out...
20:19	Bitgod	Broam, im in on this too
20:19	Bitgod	ill join you
20:19	Broam	plus it's sort of hard for the login servers to go down if there are no login servers
20:19	Broam	ecutruin: all the modding for MC I ever did was FLOSS. Moving to MT is a wealth of options
20:19	Bitgod	illl laugh if microsoft pulls mojang's servers offline
20:20	Broam	It has nothing to do with MSFT. It has everything to do with DRM
20:20	Bitgod	thus, rendering your pretty 'launcers' useless
20:20	tadni	Bitgod: " He’ll continue to do cool stuff though. Don’t worry about that." What else has notch done, besides scrolls which was a flop and that spaceship game which never got past concept?
20:20	Bitgod	launcher too
20:20	kruug	Bitgod: my launcher will be safe :)
20:20	Bitgod	tadni, eactly
20:20	Bitgod	mine too
20:20	Bitgod	i use team extreme
20:20	Bitgod	:P
20:20	kruug	I have FTB which cache's the login token
20:21		destin_eternel joined #minetest
20:21		iqualfragile joined #minetest
20:21	Broam	look. old versions are gonna be archived everywhere and offline mode is a thing. No one can kill minecraft's old version or modding scene.
20:21	ecutruin	kruug, who are you do say that?  Is it something you built.. suffered through the community of.. etc?  How is it even bad that Microsoft owns Mojang?  Right now.. we don't know what's going on.. Microsoft could be amazing for Minecraft.. we don't know.
20:21	Broam	but it's not floss and for someone who wears an FSF cloak I should be playing FLOSS games or at least helping them succeed.
20:21	ecutruin	You guys are all attacking Notch because you're frustrated and scared.. well grow up and realize that he wanted to be done.. and he created something used EVERYWHERE.. he deserves a good payout.
20:21		bluej10013 joined #minetest
20:21	tadni	Notch lucked out, remixing other popular underated game concepts. He's not a wealth of good ideas.
20:22	kruug	ecutruin: see: RARE
20:22	tadni	Again, he was excited and put money in Scrolls.
20:22	kruug	He got a good payout...
20:22	vanila	im honestly worried about Notch, this is a very strange decision - I hope he is alright
20:22	kruug	he could still walk and get paid
20:22	Broam	I'm not worried about Notch or Minecraft.
20:22	ecutruin	kruug, Yes.. RARE was a bad thing that happened, but it doesn't mean everything they do is evil and vile.
20:22	Bitgod	juist hope he doesnt do what robin williams did
20:22	Bitgod	depression sucks :|
20:22	vanila	yes
20:23	raffahacks	What is the name of the GNU distro?
20:23	ecutruin	Stop overreacting and attacking someone who really just wanted out.
20:23	destin_eternel	people move on in life. happiness is part of that. respect the guys decision
20:23	vanila	this situation got me interested in minetest
20:23	tadni	ecutruin: No, I'm mad he sold out and acted like he couldn't have hired someone to run his company for him.
20:23		drinkdecaf joined #minetest
20:23	kruug	ecutruin: all I'm saying is that he could have been out without abandoning the community
20:23	vanila	because I will not like to play a minecraft that signals home to microsoft
20:23	kruug	tadni: exactly
20:23	ecutruin	tadni, Tough.. its not your company.. he deserved every penny he got.
20:23		realtinymonster joined #minetest
20:23	kruug	ecutruin: and he earned every penny...minus these
20:23	kruug	these are blood monies
20:23	ecutruin	No.. they aren't.
20:24	tadni	raffahacks: "The GNU distro", but out by the GNU project?
20:24	kruug	he's killing the community
20:24	ecutruin	God you're idiots.
20:24	destin_eternel	ecutruin, I agree with that ..
20:24	kruug	ecutruin: no, we're fanatics :)
20:24	ecutruin	No.. you're idiots.
20:24	kruug	no, you're the corporate shill...
20:24	realtinymonster	dont me an idiot, idiout
20:24	tadni	ecutruin: No one "deserves" 1+ billion dollars, I don't care if you cure cancer.
20:24	Amaz	rafhacks, I think it's Guinx
20:24	iqualfragile	i just worry that microsoft might not be as chill as jeb
20:24	kruug	^
20:24	tadni	Amaz: No, guix is the package manager.
20:24	Bitgod	jeb was awesom
20:24	Bitgod	e
20:24	raffahacks	I heard something like that here this afternoon...
20:24	Bitgod	i tweeted w/ him a fewtimes
20:24	Amaz	Ah.
20:25	iqualfragile	https://np.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/29vrkp/cant_run_minecraft_made_my_own/ciozegx
20:25	geggam	meh... only thing they control is the login... reverse eng / break that and you can do whatever you want
20:25	kruug	Youtube streamers, the thing that really made Notch/Mojang/Minecraft famous can't be monotized anymore, meaning that 90% of the streamers won't stream
20:25	tadni	Amaz: If they're talking about the official GNU distro, it' just called GNU... but it's still in Alpha.
20:25	Amaz	Yeah.
20:25		mat__ joined #minetest
20:25	Amaz	I was on the webpage earlier today.
20:25	ecutruin	No.. I've been for a community driven engine for a year or so now.  I just am a designer now days.. don't do the coding as much myself.  I'm not a corporate fanatic.  I'm saying the community caused Notch so much undo stress over something that was a hobby to him.
20:25	iqualfragile	geggam: there are allready projects doing that
20:25	destin_eternel	ecutruin, amazing how the drama spills over into other places. sheesh
20:26	kruug	ecutruin: he can still walk without hurting the community :)
20:26	geggam	i thought this was a different game ....
20:26	Guest95796	+i mat1
20:26	kruug	he could have even gotten the 1.2 billion from Mojang without selling it :)
20:26	ecutruin	Its the community that is hurting the community.. not Notch.
20:26	geggam	was why i was here
20:26	kruug	ecutruin: yes, let's punish the whole for the loud snobs...
20:26	vanila	kruug, clearly he did a terrible thing - and it looks self destructive
20:26	kruug	that's the corporate way!
20:27	vanila	thats why im worried about his mental health
20:27	ecutruin	kruug, Noone is being punished.. and if you think so.. you're just as much of an idiot as I stated.
20:27		mat1 joined #minetest
20:27	vanila	it's rude to call someone an idiot for having a differnet view than you
20:27	kruug	ecutruin: we'll see, but in 6 months when everything is Microsoft run and the community/servers/everything is in shambles, I will be here to say "I told you so"
20:27	geggam	anyone who is in mgmt and calling people idiots wont last :)
20:28	kruug	^
20:28	geggam	assuming they actually are there
20:28	ecutruin	kruug, You still wouldn't be right.  It doesn't mean Notch is punishing anyone.  The community is the one punishing everyone.
20:29	kruug	ecutruin: Notch is indirectly punishing the community for a few bad eggs...
20:29	tadni	kruug: They might write a formal modding api for minecraft and even possibly port to c# ... but Minecraft 2 is surely going to be an PC/Xbone exclusive.
20:29	ecutruin	No.
20:29	ecutruin	He's not.
20:29	* ecutruin	just sighs.
20:29	vanila	Selling out by giving your company to minecraft is hurting the community
20:29	vanila	saying "no" doesn't make that false
20:29	tadni	vanila: MS*
20:29	vanila	oops
20:29	destin_eternel	ecutruin, indeed
20:30	* PenguinDad	jumps out the window
20:30	kruug	There is nothing to force Microsoft to retain the Mojang development team
20:30	kruug	in fact, there is a good chance that they'll disperse teh team to other projects
20:30	ecutruin	He didn't "give" the company to Microsoft.. they payed quite a bit for it.. likely way more then they will ever get back.  What he did is ensure it will continue to be supported.  If he had just left.. and the other founders just left.. do you think Mojang would function?
20:30	kruug	this means less quality Minecraft, and a team that doesn't have the same core vision/value of the original team
20:31	geggam	but... doesnt it run now ?
20:31	ecutruin	That's because everyone didn't step out.
20:31	geggam	its not going to degrade all the sudden
20:31	destin_eternel	notch hasn't touch minecraft in quite a while, it was jeb/dinnerbone/grum doing the decisions
20:31	kruug	right...
20:31	stroEkris	Am I the only one who doesn't bat an eye about Microsoft buying Minecraft?
20:31	kruug	so, Notch could have walked and no one would have cared
20:31	vanila	stroEkris, looks like it
20:31	vanila	this is a really big deal
20:31	tadni	destin_eternel: Then why was life "so stressful" for him?
20:31	geggam	i thought... mineteset was not minecraft... am i wrong ?
20:31	vanila	it confuses me seeing all these peopel downplaying it
20:32	ecutruin	In addition.. to stop out .. and step out completely .. he HAS to sell his shares.. that's kind of how it works.  If the other owners wanted out as well.. then who does he sell to?
20:32	kruug	right...he could have sold his shares to Jeb, or someone else within the dev group, or had another invester step in
20:32	stroEkris	vanila, not to me
20:32	vanila	There is no defending selling out to microsoft
20:32		drinkdecaf joined #minetest
20:32	vanila	this makes an extremely powerful rich company more powerful
20:32	kruug	no, he didn't sell his shares to Microsoft, he sold EVERYTHING to microsoft
20:33	geggam	so who here can tell me the difference in minetest and minecraft ?
20:33	vanila	this is a bad thing for everyone except microsoft
20:33	ecutruin	Jeb couldn't reasonably purchase his shares.
20:33	destin_eternel	I think what it comes down to is FUD, it is too early to go off on a tangent.
20:33	kruug	Minetest is OSS, Minecraft is now a corporate husk of a once great game
20:33	stroEkris	Well, I wonder how bad it is for me...
20:33	tadni	geggam: Minetest has a proper modding api and is based on c++, instead of slow java?
20:33	kruug	ecutruin: then split between multiple buyers
20:33	geggam	this is the #minetest channel yes ?
20:33	* ecutruin	sighs and jsut shakes his head.
20:33	kruug	all he has to do is go below majority
20:33	tadni	Minetest is also Free as in Freedom, and poptarts.
20:33	ecutruin	Seriously... how old are you guys?
20:34	kruug	ecutruin: if you haven't been CEO/owner, you know no more than I
20:34	Miner_48er	geggam minetest.net
20:34	kruug	how old are you ecutruin ?
20:34	ecutruin	I'm 31.
20:34	kruug	ah, so young...
20:34		erlehmann joined #minetest
20:34	geggam	its what i though tadni ... so why the hell arent people  just using minetest and not whining ?
20:34	kruug	so naive...
20:34	tadni	ecutruin: I like you're go to is "they say things I don't like, so they must be young".
20:34	geggam	you use closed source crap you get screwed... its the cycle
20:34	ecutruin	kruug, how old are you?
20:34	erlehmann	geggam, people realize that they are powerless.
20:34	tadni	your*
20:34	kruug	old enough to know better than to sell out
20:34	realtinymonster	go argue in #minecraft, net here
20:34	erlehmann	geggam, this makes them mad.
20:34	ecutruin	tadni, no.. you guys are talking like little children, hense why I'm asking how old you are.
20:35	geggam	so they realize the easy path has a price...
20:35	stroEkris	I just don't care about minecraft
20:35	geggam	:)
20:35	kruug	easy path, not right path
20:35	bluej100	It wasn't Dinnerbone's decision. He's not excited about it. https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/511513103478292480
20:35	ecutruin	kruug, you didn't answer my question.
20:35	bluej100	I think Notch and Carl and Jakob were burned out and made the decision.
20:35	geggam	your right isnt my right... remember that  and you will go farther
20:35	kruug	why would he?  Everything he's worked for was swept out from under him...
20:35	tadni	ecutruin: No, you're are justifying his decision saying it won't effect minecraft. You can argue everyone has a price and I'd agree, but I don't think Notch had MC's best interest selling to MS. He had his.
20:36	kruug	^
20:36	destin_eternel	it's just a damn game..get over it
20:36	erlehmann	geggam i have seen that before. tell people that this would not have happened with free software and they become mad.
20:36	tadni	destin_eternel: It's a game people have suck 1000s of hours in.
20:37	erlehmann	yeah, so notch has basically programmed a highly addictive drug
20:37	geggam	http://xkcd.com/743/ applicable
20:37	erlehmann	so he is kind of a druglord then
20:37	ecutruin	tadni, I'm not justifying his decision.  I'm disappointed as well.  However, I'm not going to attack the guy who gave us Minecraft over it.  Especially when he was essentially driven away from the game he made by the community it created.  I'm sorry.. I'm not unreasonable.  I have actually grown up.
20:37	destin_eternel	ecutruin, exactly
20:37	jin_xi	well said ecutruin
20:38	tadni	geggam: The big reason I see a transitional problem from Minecraft to Minetest, is the lack of mods on Minetests end. Even without a proper modding api, there are huge and popular mods that need work to be ported over before there's a chance MT gets any real traction.
20:38	erlehmann	ecutruin have you made any minecraft mods? if so, want to port them?
20:38	ecutruin	Minetest cannot be a replacement for MC in terms of modding.
20:38	destin_eternel	^
20:38	geggam	so the api needs built
20:38	tadni	ecutruin: How did the  community "driven him away"?
20:38		iqualfragile joined #minetest
20:38	tadni	drive*
20:38	erlehmann	ecutruin minetest has a better modding api by far.
20:38	kruug	tadni: he had nothing to do with the EULA
20:38	kruug	well, not the recent debacle
20:39		adhoc joined #minetest
20:39	tadni	kruug: Hm?
20:39	ecutruin	It is not mature enough as an engine to actually support most of what the community needs.  To make it mature would equate to re-writing a large portion of the engine.  Honestly, it'd likely be more efficient to make a new game engine period.
20:39	erlehmann	ecutruin what is missing?
20:39	ecutruin	erlehmann, MT's API/Engine is terribly designed for the kinds of content MC modders make.
20:39	jin_xi	you cant compare mt vs mc modding in terms of better api
20:39	kruug	sorry, that was more in anticipation to ecutruin trying to answer your question
20:39	ecutruin	I could go on about what its missing for hours..
20:39	erlehmann	ecutruin so lets work on that.
20:40	stroEkris	Irrlicht
20:40	ecutruin	I have in fact, in this channel, gone on about what its missing.. for hours.
20:40	tadni	ecutruin: ... What is Minetest missing api wise?
20:40	erlehmann	ecutruin, list priority targets.
20:40		scourge joined #minetest
20:40	erlehmann	ecutruin, minetest can grow. it will have to.
20:40	tadni	I see a lack of manpower, over api challenges/limitation factors.
20:40	kruug	ecutruin seems like a "get off my lawn" kind of guy...
20:41	iqualfragile	ecutruin: better create bug reports
20:41	ecutruin	Non-looping animation.  Particle Engine.  Clientside LUA.  Customizable GUI components.  Better networking protocol.  Clientside entity prediction.
20:41	iqualfragile	http://github.com/minetest/minetest
20:41	iqualfragile	there is no lack of manpower
20:41	iqualfragile	there is lack of organisation
20:41	ecutruin	There's just a few.. and they are not non-trivial.
20:41	geggam	manpower or skilled manpower iqualfragile  ?
20:41	geggam	there is a difference
20:41	stroEkris	23:41 < iqualfragile> there is lack of organisation
20:41	stroEkris	^
20:41	erlehmann	ecutruin what about writing an article, comparing the apis?
20:41	iqualfragile	ecutruin: there are customizable gui elements now
20:42	ecutruin	iqualfragile, why bother.. as I stated.. fixing ALL of the issues is not worth the effort.. you'd be better off making a new engine.
20:42	iqualfragile	geggam: there is skilled manpower, too
20:42	Sokomine	tadni: we have quite a lot of mods for diffrent purposes. finding them in the mod relases forum is the main difficulty. further mods are of course always welcome! sometimes people even adopt old mods where the developer has left and modernize them
20:42	ecutruin	iqualfragile, can I retexture the item slot components?.. buttons?.. backgrounds that scale correctly?.. etc?
20:42	iqualfragile	but as i see it people are afraid of actually working on things because pull requests are not really handled
20:42	erlehmann	debian has packaged minetest even.
20:43	iqualfragile	which results from a lack of organisation/authority
20:43	vanila	I think that minetest is inspiring and I am really happt to see this project
20:43	PenguinDad	ecutruin: what's so bad about the networking protocol?
20:43	erlehmann	oh the same problem as in 2011?
20:43	iqualfragile	ecutruin: no, you were not
20:43	ecutruin	PenguinDad, the current UDP is slow.. it doesn't handle the kind of traffic needed for a lot of the stuff MC modders do well enough.
20:43	iqualfragile	you don't seem to be too experienced in software engineering
20:43	tadni	Sokomine: If that is the case, Minetest's website needs a much better way to spotlight relevant/decent mods. Mods make the game, don't be hiding them in a forum your new target audience (Minecraft transplants) aren't likely to search through.
20:44	kruug	ecutruin: sounds like you're making yourself a to-do list :)
20:44	iqualfragile	ecutruin: yes, current network protocoll is not the best, not at all
20:44	PenguinDad	ecutruin: minecraft is unplayable in multiplayer for me while minetest is
20:44	sfan5	sruz25: it doesn't seem to be any faster
20:44	stroEkris	Minetest by itself is somewhat an engine
20:44	stroEkris	The mods are the games :P
20:45		mvdan joined #minetest
20:45	tadni	stroEkris: That seems like a very apt metaphor.
20:45	iqualfragile	ecutruin: but what would you want to do? change the protocoll backwards-incompatible? that would remove 50% of our userbase
20:45	ecutruin	iqualfragile, I went to college for 3 years for computer programming and software development.. getting a 4.0 before I got bored and quit.  I also managed sole development for the startup I mentioned earlier.  Sorry.. but I do have experience.  On top of that.. I spent quite a bit of time talking to many very experienced developers.  I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.
20:45	stroEkris	tandi: Why so?
20:45	sfan5	iqualfragile: we don't need to support 0.4.7 or older
20:45	kruug	ecutruin: so fix this :)  Don't just complain...
20:45	ecutruin	iqualfragile, you would need to evolve if you want to grow.. its just that simple.
20:46	* ecutruin	sighs.
20:46	Miner_48er	the mod database is a recent addition that is gaining popularity https://forum.minetest.net/mmdb/
20:46	iqualfragile	"recent"
20:46	LemonLake	how add mods?
20:46	iqualfragile	LemonLake: log in, click the add mod button
20:46	tadni	stroEkris: A lot of mods modify the game by adding small bits of functionality -- not by providing major overhalls to the core experience.
20:46	LemonLake	it says invalid credentials.
20:46	LemonLake	even though
20:46	LemonLake	I can verify
20:47	LemonLake	they are correct.
20:47	tadni	LemonLake: On your end. Fine here.
20:47	Amaz	Problem with the new forum.
20:47	Sokomine	tadni: you're very right with that! with mt, mods are far more essential than with mc. even the "basic" minetest_game (or minetest_next) is in essence just a collection of mods; games are in essence collections of mods
20:47	casimir	ecutruin "you would need to evolve" <--- wrong sentence
20:47	iqualfragile	LemonLake: yes, sorry, the mmdb was made back when we had the old forums
20:47	ecutruin	You really didn't listen to what I stated, did you?  I stated.. to "fix" the issues with MT involve an amount of work that would be better spent towards building a new engine designed from the ground up to be the type of engine needed.
20:47	LemonLake	iqualfragile: So was my account AFAIK.
20:47	iqualfragile	LemonLake: you can only log in with your old credentials, im working on that
20:47		bluej100 left #minetest
20:47	geggam	udp is slow ?
20:47	stroEkris	Gotcha tandi
20:47	LemonLake	Well that's a pain in the ass
20:47	kruug	ecutruin: so get started...no one's stopping you but you
20:47	LemonLake	Are you working on that this very minute, or this month?
20:48	ecutruin	kruug, Who says I'm not supporting such a project?
20:48	kruug	ecutruin: you...
20:48	kruug	since you're on here arguing why Microsoft is a good thing...
20:48	ecutruin	I don't believe I ever stated that I'm not supporting a voxel engine.  I stated I'm not supporting MT.
20:49	iqualfragile	LemonLake: yes, not this verry minute, this verry minute im about to go to bed, but yes, im working on it
20:49	kruug	ecutruin: you're not supporting MT because you don't agree with an implementation of some random bit of code, but yet you either won't clone it and do it "right" or you won't help it get fixed
20:49	kruug	so, you're in here complaining....why?
20:49	Sokomine	ecutruin: hmm. that's something to be heard from a lot of projects. it is always tempting to write something completely anew. if you have the time....
20:50	* Megaf	would give lots of money to minetest developers if he could
20:50	geggam	im still stuck on the statement udp is slow
20:50	kruug	what would be the alternative?
20:51	kruug	I thought UDP was the better protocol to use...
20:51	geggam	on a GB lan you can run an OS over tcp pretty easily
20:51		bluej100 joined #minetest
20:51	tadni	Sokomine: It's rare the one actually has to rewrite a whole codebase from scratch, assuming the devs aren't crap and don't document code and just are bad in-general.
20:51	iqualfragile	Sokomine: writing things compleetly anew is a horrible waste of time
20:51	LemonLake	iqualfragile: i see
20:51	geggam	nfs pxe boot
20:51	Sokomine	tadni: i started to create categories and add the mods to them in the wiki. i didn't get far yet - it is a lot of work because there are so many mods out there. this is something that definitely needs doing
20:52	kruug	Sokomine: something akin to the Bukkit mod db?
20:52	Miner_48er	kruug https://forum.minetest.net/mmdb/
20:52	Sokomine	tadni: i don't think the devs are bad. but: it was started by a single person, then developed further. not all design decisions taken at the beginning might have been good. yet it is a very enjoyable game
20:53	kruug	Miner_48er: right, but it would be more user friendly to mimic this: http://plugins.bukkit.org/ no?
20:53	Sokomine	kruug: i've heared about bukkit but don't know what it really is?
20:53	ecutruin	kruug, Not "some bit of code", but yes.  I disagree with the design decisions made with MT.. I think it has promise, which is why I stay in this channel.  However, so much would have to be fixed, it just doesn't feel "worth it" to fix.
20:53	tadni	Sokomine: I still think people are far to apt to "let's scrap everything" kind of mentality.
20:54	tadni	ecutruin: As someone in the enterprise/buisess world, this is especially surprising of a suggestion.
20:54	kruug	ecutruin: so, you're saying you'd rather sit and complain than assist...
20:54	geggam	enterprise just renames it
20:54	kruug	I think I understand you're line of thought...
20:54	geggam	then sells it at a higher price with less features
20:54	geggam	:)
20:54	kruug	that's why you prefer Microsoft :)
20:54	ecutruin	kruug, I normally tend to stay silent, actually.
20:54	geggam	prove it
20:55		celeron55 joined #minetest
20:55	erlehmann	what about a kickstarter for reimplementing popular minecraft mods?
20:56	ecutruin	erlehmann, in MT?.. won't happen.
20:56	LemonLake	a kickstarter? nah
20:56	LemonLake	you can just put a forum post up and you'll get hundreds of them
20:56	tadni	ecutruin: We already have like half the popular mods.
20:56	ecutruin	Remake ThaumCraft in MT.. I'd love to see that.
20:56	LemonLake	ecutruin: it is quite possible
20:56	iqualfragile	problem is performance, mainly
20:56	Sokomine	one point where - based on the demo i played a year or two ago - mc is by far superior is handling of mobs/fighting. that's something that doesn't really work well in mt. there are mobs mods out there, yes, and they add far more intresting things (i like the mobf animals and their behaviour a lot more than what i saw of those...hearts spawning...cute-looking-to-be-killed mobs in mc)
20:57	LemonLake	just...nobody can be fucked
20:57	LemonLake	and performance, too
20:57	iqualfragile	at least for me heavy use of pipeworks almost brings the strongest servers down to their knees
20:57	ecutruin	tadni, yes.. you have very broken, glitchy duplications of many popular MC mod mechanics.  Many things done with MC cannot be done via MT.
20:57	iqualfragile	but that might just be stupid implementation
20:57	kruug	follow the way of Thermal Expansion and make tubes/pipes opaque...
20:57	LemonLake	iqualfragile: pipeworks is recieving massive overhaul
20:57	LemonLake	it is much more efficient now
20:57	kruug	ecutruin: then fix it
20:57	LemonLake	+kruug
20:57	celeron55	in my opinion minetest is mostly a prototype of what the world needs
20:58	LemonLake	+c55
20:58	tadni	ecutruin: Besides the speed ... I don't see what the issue is.
20:58	Sokomine	..but fighting just isn't something that works well. which suits me as that's no apsect of the game i'm intrested in :-)
20:58	ecutruin	kruug, why?
20:58	celeron55	but we have no resources of making a non-prototype version of it
20:58	ecutruin	I can.. just use MC.. currently.
20:58	iqualfragile	LemonLake: yes, but it seems to me that they forgot the backward compatibility
20:58	celeron55	for*
20:58	erlehmann	celeron55. hey
20:58	LemonLake	iqualfragile: to be honest it'd only bloat it. everyone should just update
20:58	kruug	ecutruin: fix it, or just submit a bug report
20:58	tadni	ecutruin: Can you give me of specific examples of what is "impossible" in minetest?
20:58	iqualfragile	celeron55: yes, you can chaneg your gravatar avatar
20:58	LemonLake	if the older version is that bad then no point in making it bc
20:58	celeron55	the MC community has way more resources but they like to stick to what they have
20:59	celeron55	so, whatever
20:59	LemonLake	yep
20:59	ecutruin	Or.. I could work on my own engine and not have the issues.. https://twitter.com/ecutruin/status/503023271571652608/photo/1 .. I've already messed around with the renderer.
20:59	LemonLake	though i think core devs gotta focus on performance atm
20:59	celeron55	john_minetest: that someone needs skill too
20:59	LemonLake	more than the lua api
20:59	LemonLake	just saiyan
21:00	tadni	LemonLake: THat's just Super.
21:00	celeron55	and also, the MC community is so stuck to java that there's no way of getting them away from java
21:00	iqualfragile	ecutruin: yeah, right
21:00	celeron55	so basically it would have to be java
21:00	iqualfragile	go play with unity
21:00	ecutruin	tadni, Remake ThaumCraft. ^-^  If you do that.. in MT.. without glitchy entities and smooth animations.. I'll accept MT as a valid platform.
21:00	celeron55	and nobody else likes that
21:00	kruug	ecutruin: then go work on that engine and leave the big boys to their development...
21:00	kruug	just sayin :)
21:00	scourge	ecutruin: what is ThaumCraft?
21:01	ecutruin	celeron55, I just posted a picture of a Unity3D voxel renderer, written in C#.. not java.. so no.. we're not all stuck on java.
21:01	tadni	ecutruin: If i cared about magic mods at all, then maybe.
21:01	iqualfragile	ecutruin: go such m$ dick
21:01	celeron55	ecutruin: what languages are you willing to use?
21:01	DusXMT	ecutruin: C# is rather unportable, and Unity is non-free
21:01	ecutruin	iqualfragile, wow.. immature much?
21:01	tadni	I'd be much more likely to work on more technical, wiring, etc, mods.
21:01	iqualfragile	ecutruin: using C#? wtf?
21:02	ecutruin	DusXMT, Unity3D uses Mono.. which IS portable.. C#.
21:02	kruug	ecutruin: you're the one saying people are idiots if they don't agree with you...
21:02	ecutruin	kruug, no.. I'm saying people are being idiots because they are.
21:02	tadni	"Let's write a FOSS gave in proprietary software!"
21:02	erlehmann	ecutruin unity 3d is not free
21:02	iqualfragile	tadni: i don't think he wants to write a foss game
21:02	stroEkris	I don't like Unity3D
21:03	iqualfragile	which makes tis dicussion even more unrelated to minetest
21:03	erlehmann	ecutruin seems to have a working idiot-radar. idiots everywhere!
21:03	iqualfragile	ecutruin: please take this to another channel/discussion forum
21:03	ecutruin	ecutruin, its free to develop on.  I can use it to make a prototype if I so choose.  Did I say use it for MT?  Nope.  I just said I was using it to mess around with voxel engines.
21:03	iqualfragile	ecutruin: if you have actuall issues with minetest just file a bug report and talk over there
21:04	erlehmann	ecutruin what iqalfragile says
21:04	ecutruin	iqualfragile, I've already talked to a few of the developers of MT and explained the issues, actually.
21:04	celeron55	iqualfragile: how do you think you are benefiting this discussion?
21:04	erlehmann	is that kickstarter idea a stupid one?
21:04	iqualfragile	celeron55: im not, im just here to troll
21:04	celeron55	iqualfragile: just go away if you have nothing to say except hating random things
21:04	LemonLake	yes
21:04	erlehmann	why
21:05	iqualfragile	erlehmann: i am not too sure if they will reach their targets…
21:05	tadni	I find it odd that people have this general mindset, about free software -- that one would suggest to use blantanly non-free software as the core of the engine. A huge amount of Minetest is how open/modable it is...
21:05	ecutruin	tadni, who suggested such a thing?
21:05	scourge	^what he said
21:05	tadni	ecutruin: Using Unity3D as a game engine basis.
21:05	LemonLake	ggggg
21:06	kruug	well, I think ecutruin suggested using non-free multiple times
21:06	scourge	ecutruin: you also said c#
21:06	LemonLake	someone said unity3d
21:06	erlehmann	a kickstarter could provide visibility and enable someone to do full time integration work.
21:06	erlehmann	and now would be one of the best times.
21:06	kruug	erlehmann: it's much like the Ubuntu phone...
21:06	tadni	john_minetest: Ah, my mistake.
21:06	LemonLake	i think a kickstarter is kaput
21:06	iqualfragile	ecutruin: talked to the developers or filed bug reports?
21:06	DusXMT	Sure, Mono is both free and portable, but M$ can decide to take it any time it wants with its patents
21:06	celeron55	could people maybe be useful and discuss whether there is any ways to find common ground between MC modders and MT developers and users?
21:06	kruug	they knew nothing would come of it, but yet they did it to get exposure
21:06	celeron55	are*
21:06	DusXMT	s/take it/take it down/
21:06	ecutruin	tadni, as I'm now mentioning for the second time.. I never said use Unity3D for MT.. do not put words in my mouth.  I was using it for MY OWN prototype engine.. which was NOT going to be open source.
21:06	LemonLake	celeron55: you know I was talking about a compatibility layer a long time ago
21:06	celeron55	that would be good in this situation and it hasn't been discussed a lot
21:06	LemonLake	or something like that
21:07	Megaf	[21:57:18] <iqualfragile> at least for me heavy use of pipeworks almost brings the strongest servers down to their knees
21:07	casimir	Seems this discussion is going nowhere.
21:07	LemonLake	somesort of modding tool that allows you to export for both games
21:07	LemonLake	but nobody liked that idea relaly
21:07	Amaz	+casimir
21:07	Megaf	heavy use of pipeworks on my server
21:07	celeron55	i'm thinking more of trying to figure out if something new could be written to be useful to both
21:07	tadni	ecutruin: I said my mistake, chill your self.
21:07	LemonLake	celeron55: compatibility layer
21:07	celeron55	this channel is a fucking nightmare though
21:07	Megaf	and its not pipeworks that slow it down, is minetestserver itlself
21:07	LemonLake	this M$+MC hype really stirred the chan
21:07	LemonLake	i've nevr seen it so active
21:07	stroEkris	celeron55: This current channel? I guess it is.
21:08	celeron55	there is always an intolerable chaos here, but now it's much worse than usually 8)
21:08	sfan5	#minecraft is not much better
21:08	sruz25	sfan5: hmm, most blocks ARE stone and dirt with low IDs
21:08	sruz25	sfan5: so it kind of makes sense
21:08	Megaf	blaise: I updated my server to latest git and now I get 104 seconds of lag, from 3 seconds to 104, maybe sapier have done something nasty again
21:09	sfan5	sruz25: I use a slightly modified version, I'll work on it tomorrow.
21:09	LemonLake	guys
21:09	LemonLake	lets all just like shut the fuck up, yeah?
21:09	Amaz	^
21:09	LemonLake	we'll just get on with our regular business
21:09	Broam	...okay I am humbled
21:10	Broam	in the mod I'm helping to test, we made a block called a Brazier. Pretty simple, spits out fire out the top
21:10	LemonLake	Broam: That's nice.
21:10	Broam	Today I learned how catchy minetest's fire mechanics are. Wildfires are fun
21:10	LemonLake	Hehehe.
21:10	Broam	Yes. Yes it is.
21:10	stroEkris	Like in real life
21:10	LemonLake	Broam, why not stick to fire particles?
21:10	Broam	code if you care - https://gitorious.org/sztest
21:10	kruug	is there anything to watch out for when modding?  Like ID's and such?
21:10	LemonLake	That'd prevent all your wildfires :p
21:11	LemonLake	kruug: lua
21:11	LemonLake	watch out for wild lua
21:11	Broam	LemonLake: I think it's because the idea was to use braziers to make coal gas. It's part of the mechanics
21:11	Sokomine	broam: best disable fire on a server. it's bad if a wild fire destroys a building. but if you're just testing, and in singleplayer, it probably doesn't matter
21:11	LemonLake	Broam: I see.
21:11	kruug	LemonLake: well, yeah...but if I want to add new items, do I have to make sure someone else isn't using that ID?
21:11	sfan5	There's no IDs, so no
21:11	Broam	LemonLake: Interesting stuff he's got going in there. Rotary power & stuff. Microblocks etc
21:11	stroEkris	Is it possible to create/generate a map with width, length and depth limits?
21:11	LemonLake	kruug: None of that crap.
21:11	kruug	sfan5: thanks!
21:11	sfan5	(at least no IDs on the Lua side)
21:11	LemonLake	It's all names, like the new Minecraft version apparently uses.
21:11	Broam	Sokomine: oh yeah
21:12	LemonLake	So if you've been using the assetname:itemname system recently, there's nothing new.
21:12	Broam	john_minetest: We had to make firebreaks by cutting deep trenches.
21:12	iqualfragile	kruug: there are ids but they are hidden, your new blocks are named according to the modname:blockname shema
21:12	iqualfragile	so as long as your modname is unique you don't have a problem
21:12	LemonLake	^
21:12	Broam	fun fact: cactus is highly flammable
21:12	LemonLake	cactus is plant
21:13	LemonLake	plant does the burny thing
21:13	Bitgod	that was fun
21:13	Bitgod	we had a california fire lol
21:13	Bitgod	fixed tho
21:13		erlehmann joined #minetest
21:13	Sokomine	celeron55: both games look pretty similar on the surface, and what people do with mods may be similar as well in both games. yet the modding mechanisms seem to be quite diffrent, and it may take time to understand each other in that regard
21:13		drinkdecaf joined #minetest
21:14	LemonLake	shit, this conversation caused me to lose my train of thought
21:14	LemonLake	uhh i was like making a sapling or something
21:14	Broam	sorry I burnt your train of thought there LemonLake.
21:14	LemonLake	Broam: dig trench in head
21:14	Bitgod	we boarded your train and took off
21:14	Bitgod	:D
21:15	LemonLake	Bitgod: my train tho
21:15	LemonLake	you bastard
21:15	sfan5	:D
21:15	Sokomine	kruug: the only thing you'll have to make sure about is that the name of your mod doesn't conflict with another one people might want to use in the same world
21:15	LemonLake	that was my fucking train
21:15	celeron55	Sokomine: yes and i would like to increase understanding between both sides in that
21:15	LemonLake	you dont just steal a train
21:15	Bitgod	sorry, it has a new cnductor
21:15	Bitgod	:p
21:15	LemonLake	nggh
21:15	celeron55	Sokomine: it could happen that something could be developed to benefit both
21:16	Sokomine	lemoncake: no. limits in map size cannot really be enforced. you can stop your mapgen and create no further land beyound a certain point, or teleport players back, but that's about it. not really practical
21:16	Bitgod	minetes
21:16	Bitgod	can it handle 32x32?
21:16	Bitgod	textures
21:16	Bitgod	cuz im gonna update alot of em
21:16	sfan5	Yes
21:16	Bitgod	ok i love u now
21:16	Bitgod	ty
21:16	* Broam	laughs
21:17	sfan5	It can handle as much as you want
21:17	Sokomine	if you want to learn more about mt, and how it may look like, take a look at vanessaes survival- or creative servers. they have a lot of mods installed :-)
21:17	NakedFury	it can have 128 textures too
21:17	Bitgod	oh?
21:17	NakedFury	or higher
21:17	Bitgod	1080x1240?!
21:17	Bitgod	or something
21:17	Bitgod	jk
21:17	sfan5	e.g. 512x
21:17	sfan5	1024x too
21:17	NakedFury	higher than a point is ridiculous
21:17	Broam	the only limitation is that if the texture is too big you have to send it to the client on login - right?
21:17	Bitgod	i say 128 is fine
21:17	sfan5	If your card can render that
21:17	Bitgod	128 is good enough'
21:17	Sokomine	celeron55: that would be very nice. many ideas may work in both games
21:17	NakedFury	servers can also enforce the texture to be used
21:18	sfan5	Yes you need to send it to the client on the first login
21:18	stroEkris	celeron55: Is it possible to create/generate a map with limits? if yes then how can I do that?
21:18	sfan5	But that can be sped up by using HTTP for media loading
21:18	Sokomine	bitgod: yes, higher texture resolution is no problem. however, as media is downloaded from a server upon connection, it's best not to go too high-res for everyday stuff - and better let players install texture packs if they wish to
21:19	geggam	if you have a server and want to run MT on it.. what would be a good spec ?
21:19	Sokomine	i wouldn't use 128 px for everyday nodes. perhaps for a very complex machine
21:19	erlehmann	hands up, whom of you is here from reddit?
21:19	Megaf	OffTopic:
21:19	Megaf	22:19:28: VERBOSE[main]: Client: Attempting to load image file "character_41_preview.png"
21:19	Megaf	22:19:28: VERBOSE[main]: Client: Loaded received media: 9bd1a537eb1cf77fbf3a1664c06d592c3d5a0064 "character_41_preview.png"
21:19	iqualfragile	geggam: if i have a computer and want to run a programm on it, what would be good specs?
21:19	LemonLake	Hands down.
21:19	Broam	I use reddit but I'm not here from reddit
21:20	Megaf	That means that remote media is working, right?
21:20	geggam	minetest
21:20	iqualfragile	geggam: in other words: it really depends on what you want to do with it
21:20	LemonLake	Megaf: I do believe so, yes.
21:20	geggam	well iqualfragile ... i assume run minetest as a service
21:20	iqualfragile	a basic minetest server does not really take recources
21:20	Megaf	Thanks
21:20	sfan5	Megaf: no, that means nothing
21:20	iqualfragile	but if you have 100 users and mobf and pipeworks its another deal
21:20	geggam	network load john_minetest  ?
21:21	Sokomine	there are people running servers on raspberry pis, but that's really low end. if mobs, technic, mesecons etc. come into play, servers do need more ressources
21:21		mvdan left #minetest
21:21	geggam	heh... my home network is GB lan.. id hope so
21:21	LemonLake	Damn.
21:21	LemonLake	This chan has like 20 more people than usual.
21:21	LemonLake	The power of Reddit, I guess.
21:21		Wuzzy2 joined #minetest
21:21	geggam	what about pushing upload to internet... 2mbps  cover how many  ?
21:21	erlehmann	reddit is 20 people on irc
21:22	erlehmann	i knew it
21:22	geggam	john_minetest, ... my router is home brew openbsd
21:22	erlehmann	all the time
21:22	geggam	;)
21:22	sfan5	lol
21:22	geggam	i have an old sc1435 sitting around... might spin up a MT server
21:23	Sokomine	geggam: don't know. if you want to know details, best talk to vanessae. she runs several servers. other people run servers from their machines at home (i.e. krocks server) - which seems to work fine as well
21:23	Broam	I can safely say that openbsd can host a small server no problem.
21:23	Megaf	geggam: with 2 mbps of upload you can hold 20 players
21:23	geggam	ok Sokomine ... ill fire up a server in a few days.. camping on the beach here for a couple
21:23	geggam	ill invite everyone over and do some measuring
21:23	Megaf	1 mbps/players
21:24	iqualfragile	Megaf: thats too high
21:24	geggam	ive ran minecraft on openbsd before :)
21:24	LemonLake	o.o
21:24	Sokomine	geggam: if you don't install a no-guests-mod and announce your server on the public list, you will get visitors. mostly kids using tablets or phones. the majority of them won't do much useful, but as a test, it might work well :-)
21:24	LemonLake	i think i figured out why i've not been able to breathe correctly for months
21:25	geggam	used to have kids over for lan parties... had 20 kids in the garage wired direct to the switch... they loved the no lag play
21:25	iqualfragile	geggam: oh, yes, definitly ban guests
21:25	LemonLake	geggam: the trick to a server is to have patience with mobile users
21:25	LemonLake	they're a pain in the ass
21:26	LemonLake	either that or ban them
21:26	LemonLake	take your pcik
21:26	LemonLake	s/pcik/pick/
21:26	* Bitgod	connects to LemonLake via 2G
21:26	Sokomine	well, it's usually not banning mobile users as such. just people who can't be bothered to think up a name for themshelves
21:26	* Bitgod	waits 5yrs to move char
21:26	* LemonLake	doesn't connect
21:26	* LemonLake	does not have a provider that supporst 2g
21:26	geggam	i dont usually worry about who is on the server... the kids tend to handle it
21:27	h9ine	laser transceivers
21:27	* Megaf	is not using 3G nor 2G. Megaf is using SlowGee
21:27	geggam	did have to quit inviting one over... evidently nukes are a thing ?
21:27	LemonLake	we're here having a conversation here
21:27	sfan5	LemonLake: you don't have 2G?
21:27	LemonLake	and h9ine is just like
21:27	LemonLake	'yo, laser transceivers."
21:27	LemonLake	sfan5: nop, i am la 3 of la g
21:27	h9ine	:)
21:27	Bitgod	5G is coming soon
21:27	Bitgod	cant wait, maybe by 202
21:27	Bitgod	201
21:27	iqualfragile	laser transcivers work
21:27	LemonLake	i have 4g in my provider
21:28	Bitgod	2021* ffs
21:28	iqualfragile	at about gigabit speed
21:28	h9ine	yes they do
21:28	LemonLake	but they haven't installed it in my town yet
21:28	iqualfragile	using infrared light
21:28	iqualfragile	seen one recently
21:28	LemonLake	they're planning on doing that later this year
21:28	iqualfragile	self-build
21:28	Sokomine	geggam: hm. i care most about servers set up for building something. on them, nukes would be very destructive and are thus usually restricted to below ground
21:28	sfan5	I have LTE where I live with my phone.
21:28	h9ine	seen one on instructables
21:28	LemonLake	sfan5: where i live i have a thing called wifi
21:28	LemonLake	so i dont need 4g in my house
21:28	sfan5	me too
21:28	LemonLake	:o
21:28	LemonLake	omg
21:28	LemonLake	wow
21:29	geggam	i was running 7 minecraft servers on an old dell 1850 ... hexxit bukkit and various minecrafts Sokomine
21:29	sfan5	but I'm talking about mobile internet
21:29	geggam	the kids told me what configs to set
21:29	LemonLake	lol
21:29	LemonLake	the kids know their shit
21:29	Sokomine	geggam: ah :-) so the kids know what they want
21:30	geggam	yep... im just the admin / network dude
21:30	LemonLake	kid: "uhh yeah like command blocks and /give 46 64 it lets us get wood to start with so the game is more fun"
21:30	geggam	dont really game much.. sort of curious as to what will happen and looking at alternatives
21:30		parabyte joined #minetest
21:30	LemonLake	look out
21:30	LemonLake	parabyte has joined
21:30	parabyte	sfan5, if your still about http://pastebin.com/VM39U5am
21:31	LemonLake	who highlighted me
21:31	Sokomine	i'm not sure what hexxit, bukkit etc. exactly are. the demo of mc ran to a degree on my machine some time ago, but now it doesn't seem to work anymore (it's a celeron g1610 without extra graphics card); thus, it's hard to compare anything further
21:31	erlehmann	what is the feature minecraft has that minetest does not?
21:31	sfan5	parabyte: still there, I might be able to send you and improved test version.
21:32	iqualfragile	erlehmann: being polished
21:32	sfan5	erlehmann: owned by Microsoft
21:32	geggam	o heh.. dell1850 was dual dual core xeon 3ghz with 16 gb ram
21:32	geggam	older machine
21:32	geggam	server only
21:32	parabyte	much appreciated need to desperately port my map to minetest
21:32	parabyte	sfan5,  :)
21:32	Bitgod	i suggest we change minetest to Minecrafter
21:32	Bitgod	and actually work on it hard
21:32	Bitgod	and make it popular
21:32	Bitgod	more than mc :D
21:32	parabyte	minetest will get popular now due to what happened
21:32	Bitgod	yes
21:32	LemonLake	were does moretrees define the height of its trees?
21:32	Bitgod	but minetest as a name would be dumb
21:32	iqualfragile	Sokomine: they are server-side apis basically
21:33	iqualfragile	a lot more limited then minetest server apis
21:33	parabyte	yes the name is somewhat silly but the software is really good
21:33	iqualfragile	(or at least they were when i looked at them the last time)
21:33	kruug	yeah, I agree that "test" shouldn't be in the name, but htat's just personal opinion :)
21:33	Sokomine	oh. i thought they where collections of mods?
21:33	kruug	Sokomine: it was a way to run mods on servers
21:34	kruug	Bukkit isn't a group of mods per se
21:34	Bitgod	lovely
21:34	Bitgod	coming soon to toys r us
21:34	Bitgod	minetest
21:34	Sokomine	lemonlake: i think it's part of the L-systems...instruction set. there, the height is defined indirectly
21:34	erlehmann	"minetest is a dumb name" i remember that discussion!
21:34	Bitgod	thatts like calling windows windowstest
21:34	Bitgod	lol
21:34	Bitgod	its TEST for a reason
21:34	kruug	Test sounds like it'll forever be in alpha/beta
21:34	kruug	never stable
21:34	Bitgod	if we're gonna promote it as a game
21:34	iqualfragile	kruug: which is the case
21:34	Bitgod	then change it :)
21:34	celeron55	well MC would have been better being forever in alpha 8)
21:34	iqualfragile	Bitgod: there is really no need to promote it
21:35	erlehmann	yeah why not change to something else! mine-ix!
21:35	sfan5	parabyte: http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/tomtsschem.py
21:35	Bitgod	then why the fuck am iu here
21:35	erlehmann	hahaha
21:35	celeron55	minix!
21:35	Bitgod	here
21:35	erlehmann	"we"
21:35	geggam	so in a week ill setup a server... should have some power to it... we can see how this stuff runs
21:35	* VanessaE	is back
21:35	parabyte	sfan5, here i go again! ;)
21:36	erlehmann	i thought about doing an ascii client for minetest. is the protocol stable?
21:36	VanessaE	hah!
21:36	* Bitgod	votes Minetest being called Epicraft
21:36	Bitgod	done
21:36	geggam	epic... like the irc client ?
21:36	kruug	epicraft already exists...
21:36	Bitgod	oh
21:36	VanessaE	oh, we're back on the rename minetest subject again eh? :)
21:36	Sokomine	kruug: ah. i've heared that that works diffrently in mc. in mt, mods always run on a server. the textures and node definitions and other media data are sent to the client when it connects
21:36	geggam	heh irony
21:36	VanessaE	I still vote for "TOME" :)
21:36		proller joined #minetest
21:36		Geppie joined #minetest
21:36	iqualfragile	VanessaE: but tome is another game
21:36	Bitgod	ok Morlds
21:36	kruug	Sokomine: you can mod without server
21:36	Bitgod	instead of Worlds
21:36	Bitgod	Mine worlds :D
21:36	VanessaE	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5800
21:36	VanessaE	:D
21:36	Geppie	lol
21:37	VanessaE	wow, that IS an old subject
21:37	iqualfragile	no, just scrolls
21:37	iqualfragile	lets just call it scrolls
21:37	celeron55	erlehmann: it isn't officially stable because it kind of sucks, but it hasn't changed drastically in a loooooong time (which is part of the reason it sucks)
21:37	erlehmann	just "rim". or "scrolls"
21:37	Bitgod	if im gonna thrw my $ into this and my time
21:37	Bitgod	i expect we're gonna get popular too :(
21:37	kruug	0x10c!
21:37	Bitgod	else its a waste of time
21:37	erlehmann	celeron55 then i won't write a client for that.
21:38	Geppie	bitgod, no money needed, mt is opensource, as well as voxelands
21:38	Geppie	lol
21:38	celeron55	won't blame you for that 8)
21:38	kruug	erlehmann: so, if it were renamed rim...and you worked for it...would it be a...
21:38	Bitgod	Geppie
21:38	VanessaE	Bitgod: this game is free. you don't have to worry about pouring money into it.
21:38	Bitgod	if Minecraft was caled Minebeta
21:38	Bitgod	it woudl suck
21:38	celeron55	it probably isn't as bad as i make it sound though
21:38	erlehmann	kruug, rimjobs feel awesome
21:38	Bitgod	ok wtf?
21:38	Geppie	no it wouldnt
21:38	Bitgod	thats sick
21:38	Geppie	its only a name
21:38	Bitgod	keep the sexuals out of here, we got kids here
21:38	sfan5	o.o
21:39	jin_xi	fuck kids
21:39	* Geppie	licks bitgod's nipple
21:39	Geppie	lol
21:39	kruug	:D
21:39	iqualfragile	jin_xi is gonna get v8
21:39	Bitgod	jin, you do it, then mail me from jail
21:39	erlehmann	fuck kids! you heard it!
21:39	Bitgod	lol
21:39	VanessaE	Bitgod: erlehmann is one of our oldest users... you should be a bit cautious about warning him :P
21:39	Bitgod	oh
21:39	Bitgod	ok
21:39	* Bitgod	licks erlehmann's as
21:39	Bitgod	s
21:39	Bitgod	THERE
21:39	Bitgod	lol
21:39	Geppie	LOL
21:39	erlehmann	hahaha
21:39	VanessaE	hah!
21:39	sfan5	O.O
21:39	kruug	Bitgod: I'm not sure he wipes...
21:39	Geppie	lel
21:39	Bitgod	oh well, chocolate
21:39	erlehmann	vanessae, i do not believe in seniority that way.
21:39	Bitgod	i make funny >_<
21:40	Bitgod	yes, ban 'this'
21:40	erlehmann	it is the reddit effect
21:40	Bitgod	bad word :p
21:40	Geppie	no john
21:40	Geppie	lol
21:40	VanessaE	erlehmann: you're grandfathered in.  too late :P
21:40	Sokomine	bitgod: we've got toilets for that!
21:40	sfan5	can we get back to the topic?
21:40	erlehmann	hahaha
21:40	Bitgod	Sokomine, not in minetest we dont
21:40	Bitgod	i should make a pee mod
21:40	VanessaE	sfan5: what IS the topic?  I missed it.
21:40	parabyte	sfan5, yes your improved code is spitting out meaningful console data
21:40	Sokomine	(which are very nice items of furniture and even have a flushing sound :-))
21:40	VanessaE	Bitgod: too late.  someone already made one.
21:40	Sokomine	oh yes, we do, bitgod. just install homedecor
21:41	sfan5	parabyte: :)
21:41	VanessaE	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4783
21:41	sfan5	!title
21:41	MinetestBot	sfan5: [Mod] Poop mod [caca] - Minetest Forums
21:41	Geppie	bitgod, you can make mixxit, i'll make voxxit
21:41	iqualfragile	srsly?
21:41	Geppie	lol
21:41	VanessaE	(and Home Decor has a bathroom kit, including a toilet that makes a flushing sound :P )
21:41	kruug	!title
21:41	MinetestBot	kruug: [Mod] Poop mod [caca] - Minetest Forums
21:41	Sokomine	vanessae: seems we got visitors (hopefully new modders) from mc visiting
21:41	iqualfragile	there is a poop mod for minetest?
21:41	VanessaE	Sokomine: so I noticed
21:42	VanessaE	iqualfragile: yep.  old mod, too
21:42	kruug	is there a mod that mimicks WAILA and NEI?
21:42	Sokomine	what are waila and nei?
21:42	VanessaE	?
21:42	sfan5	NEI?
21:42	kruug	"What Am I Looking At" and "Not Enough Items"
21:42	sfan5	how about the creative inv.?
21:43	Sokomine	what do they do?
21:43		Notgnoshi joined #minetest
21:43	VanessaE	kruug: Unified Inventory. :P
21:43	kruug	the first one tells you what's under the crosshairs, and the second one is a way to view crafting recipes from the inventory screen
21:43	VanessaE	kruug: Unified Inventory is one of several that handle the latter
21:43	Sokomine	ah. under the crosshair...thought i saw some discussion about such a mod here earlier (hud-based?)
21:43	sfan5	crafting.. Inventory+ was it called IIRC
21:43	LemonLake	VanessaE: Where are the tree heights defined in moretrees?
21:43	VanessaE	I'm not sure about a "what's under the pointer" mod though
21:44	sfan5	Uh wait
21:44	Sokomine	for the receipes, yes, unified_inventory is very good. it also comes with bags and sethome
21:44	VanessaE	LemonLake: they're defined as part of the model - they're not exactly "set" anywhere.
21:44	LemonLake	VanessaE: and how am I supposed to read these models?
21:44	sfan5	VanessaE already stated the correct mod
21:44	LemonLake	to me this is just brainfuck
21:44	VanessaE	LemonLake: it's more a matter of "these operations add up to 'this' high"
21:44	VanessaE	LemonLake: yep, that's about right.  it may as well be brainfuck.
21:44	Sokomine	lemonlake: well, to a degree :-) the tree-models are written using L-systems. do you know turtle graphics? it's like that
21:44	LemonLake	whoa
21:44	LemonLake	im popular now
21:45	parabyte	1400000000000000 seconds remaining sfan5 !
21:45	LemonLake	and is there an interpreter for these?
21:45	Megaf	VanessaE: just to confirm, I do have the entity duplication bug, and its quite a big deal, but its not new
21:45	sfan5	parabyte: sounds like you have some waiting to do...
21:45	Sokomine	there is a mod where you can enter the l-system strings and get the tree placed immediately. i don't remember where it is located :-(
21:46	Bitgod	Sokomine, you could do that w/ recipes too though ithought
21:46	LemonLake	either way, i'll just leave the numbers are something like 4-8 and let the user define how many logs they want
21:46	Sokomine	bitgod: do what?
21:46		shadowzone joined #minetest
21:47		GeneralAltoids joined #minetest
21:47	sfan5	parabyte: I can try to make a more efficient converter tomorrow
21:47	Sokomine	lemonlake: hmm. most trees from moretrees are huge. another approach to the tree problem is to use schematics...though every tree will look more or less the same then
21:47	Bitgod	soko, in minecrat
21:48	Bitgod	u had a bush and some farming item
21:48	* sfan5	goes to sleep
21:48	Bitgod	which made trees
21:48	LemonLake	Sokomine: I just need to know how many logs each tree contains.
21:48	parabyte	sfan5, lol
21:48		proller joined #minetest
21:48	Broam	Bitgod: It's not in the base engine, but a "fertilizer" item shouldn't be too hard to do
21:48	LemonLake	oh, I added fertilizer.
21:48	Broam	there's probably 2-3 mods thave have something like that
21:48	Bitgod	im gonna make it
21:48	LemonLake	though it's only implemented in the machine I'm adding to factory
21:48	Bitgod	oh
21:48	parabyte	its okay in 443642 centuries the map ve converted sfan5
21:48	Bitgod	ffs
21:49	Bitgod	is there a mod i can make?
21:49	parabyte	be
21:49	Broam	minetest's base game is very spartan
21:49	Bitgod	seems like EVERYTHING is made
21:49	Bitgod	:<
21:49	LemonLake	I'm going to make it work on corps
21:49		Notgnoshi left #minetest
21:49	LemonLake	https://mediacru.sh/lI4Dr_pcg-Lx
21:49	Sokomine	lemonlake: what do you need to know that for? it's not a fixed value...do you want to write a lumberjack mod for moretrees?
21:49	LemonLake	Sokomine: no..
21:49	Broam	Bitgod: yeah you saw us making rotary power (water wheels etc)
21:49	Bitgod	ye
21:49	Bitgod	s
21:49	LemonLake	Sokomine: It's a sapling treatment plant. it gives you a random amount of logs with just a sapling and a fertilizer
21:49		proller joined #minetest
21:50	LemonLake	or I could just drop in-built moretrees support and leave it to the user
21:50	Sokomine	bitgod: it's pretty common that people write their first mod and later realize that something like that existed already :-) happened to all of us to a degree
21:51	kruug	hmmm...that moddb could use an overhaul
21:51	kruug	there's no search
21:51	NakedFury	the first mod is always the most common one and the first step to modding
21:52	Sokomine	lemonlake: ah. hm. you could take a look at some trees, guess how many trunks they will have on average...but...some moretree trees will give more than one stack of tree trunks and take about half an hour to tear down...
21:52	LemonLake	i know that much, sokomine
21:53	Sokomine	what will be the purpose of the sapling treatment plant? to get logs? then it might make sense to give roughly the same amount of logs for each treated sapling as the amount of work invested would be the same...
21:53	LemonLake	to get multiple types of items, actually
21:54		friti joined #minetest
21:54	LemonLake	i see
21:54	LemonLake	that would involve completely changing how it works, but i'll see what i can do
21:54	Sokomine	else with l-system, you could do a lot of math and calculate probability for each height. probably a bit too much effort
21:55	LemonLake	for now, it is, yes.
21:56	bluej100	have you guys avoided reading Minecraft’s source? feel confident about responding to a letter from MS’s lawyers?
21:56	jin_xi	nice try MS lawyer
21:56	LemonLake	bluej100: Where is this threat coming from?
21:56	Broam	not even the same language bluej100
21:57	bluej100	sorry, I mean a hypothetical letter
21:57	Broam	irrlicht engine has been around for a long time.
21:57	Broam	since 2003
21:57	bluej100	holy cow
21:57	bluej100	that’s awesome
21:57	LemonLake	LWJGL is quite old, too.
21:57	Broam	minetest itself hasn't, but it uses that engine
21:58	friti	The crash upon checking online mods repo is a known bug, right?
21:58		GeneralAltoids left #minetest
21:59	H-H-H	doesnt crash on my system friti
21:59	NakedFury	its great to see so much activity here and new names
21:59	friti	Nope, Linux, Kubuntu to be exact.
21:59		ImQ009 joined #minetest
21:59	LemonLake	NakedFury: Sure.
22:00	friti	To be even more exact, i use Utopic Unicorn, latest nightly
22:00	Broam	friti: oo. that might be a source of crashes - might be good to narrow this one down early
22:00	H-H-H	im running manjaro with minetest 0.40.10
22:00	LemonLake	omg
22:00	LemonLake	when was 0.40.10 released?
22:00	friti	No need, i already have gdb installed
22:00	LemonLake	im 36 minors out of date
22:00	H-H-H	works fine for me even using the online md installer thingy
22:01	Broam	LemonLake: you and me both :)
22:01	H-H-H	mod*
22:01	LemonLake	"online mod installer thingy"
22:01	LemonLake	i need to see this.
22:01	friti	The console shows me this (i'm using pipe symbol to separate lines) terminate called after throwing an instance of 'LuaError' |  what():  C++ exception | Aborted (core dumped)
22:02	friti	Now for GDB.....
22:02	friti	First let me install the debog symbols
22:02	LemonLake	I'm off.
22:02	LemonLake	I need sleep today.
22:02	LemonLake	Good night all.
22:02	Broam	night.
22:02	kaeza	night
22:05	erlehmann	helo
22:05	erlehmann	again
22:05	erlehmann	i was supermarkt
22:05	erlehmann	have erdbeerfanta
22:06	friti	john_minetest: http://pastebin.com/ejyXsSJq
22:08	friti	Fanta is great (never had the strawberry version though), though i also like SiSi :-)
22:09	friti	I got it from the ubuntu repo, and it's version 4.10
22:11	friti	To repro: Open minetest. navicate to the mods tab, click the "Online mods repository" button, and that's when it crashes
22:11	erlehmann	yeah
22:11	erlehmann	i had that too
22:11	erlehmann	it is the package in debian
22:11	shadowzone	I had that bug as well.
22:12	friti	Okay, i will download the tarball and see what happens
22:14	friti	Or should i add the PPA?
22:14	jin_xi	blue fanta is the best
22:14		Mallot1 joined #minetest
22:14	Broam	friti: configure, make, make install, doo dah, doo dah.
22:14	Mallot1	How do you guys feel about the Mojang and Microsoft deal?
22:15	Broam	Mallot1: it's been a few hours but it's been talked to death
22:15	Mallot1	I know right Broam
22:15	Mallot1	It's pretty sick
22:15	Broam	it was the push I needed to bring myself fully into FLOSS gaming
22:15	friti	Mallot1: I think it's the best that could happen to Minetest ;-)
22:15	Broam	john_minetest: but that doesn't go well to the tune of "camptown races"
22:15	erlehmann	halloti, are you considering contributing to minetest?
22:15	Mallot1	your so right friti :D
22:16	* friti	tries the PPA first, and if that errors, will try to build from source
22:16	Mallot1	I think it's time for domination
22:16	erlehmann	you guys should consider using redo. it is the best thing since sliced bread!
22:16	Broam	friti: for fun if the ppa doesn't work, "apt-get build-dep" will save you a LOT of trouble
22:16	Mallot1	I'm pretty good with Irrlicht now, gotta get back. Just came to say hi see ya guys :D
22:17	erlehmann	hihi
22:17	* friti	routinely builds the Singularity viewer for SecondLife, already has the build deps installed and all :-)))
22:17	friti	Thanks for the tip though, Broam
22:17	Broam	np, just tryin' to help
22:18	friti	And it's appreciated :-)
22:19	Broam	One could aassume s/^/HTH HAND/g  if they wanted :P
22:20	friti	Well, the version from the PPA does NOT crash. YAY!
22:21	erlehmann	john_minetest, a build system designed my djb
22:22		mos_basik joined #minetest
22:23	kaeza	don't forget about ant
22:23	erlehmann	john_minetest redo is under 300 lines of code, yet more powerful and easier to grasp than make
22:24		hax404_ joined #minetest
22:24	erlehmann	i know becaus i implemented it.
22:24	friti	Sounds like a combo of make and ccache
22:25	erlehmann	no
22:25	erlehmann	it is completely different
22:25	erlehmann	http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/introduction-to-redo.html
22:25		T4im joined #minetest
22:26	erlehmann	my redo implementation is at http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin
22:28	mos_basik	is this what you are referring to erlehmann ? http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin
22:28	mos_basik	oops https://github.com/apenwarr/redo
22:29	erlehmann	yeah, only that apenwarr did use over 1500 lines of python and i did use under 300 lines of shell script.
22:29	erlehmann	you see where this is going :D
22:30	mos_basik	heh
22:30	erlehmann	my redo implementation might me the smallest and fastest build system.
22:30	erlehmann	it only depends on busybox or gnu coreutils
22:30	erlehmann	try it.
22:30	friti	Hmmm... Escap whilst in "Change keys" seems to exit the game. I would expect to go back to the Settings tab
22:30	erlehmann	john_minetest i doubt it. seriously.
22:34	geggam	so what about the libs to run that python ?
22:35	geggam	bash erlehmann ... or ksh >
22:35	geggam	?
22:37	erlehmann	geggam, mine is written in bourne shell.
22:37	erlehmann	try it.
22:37	geggam	so if i write it in ksh mine would be smaller :)
22:38	erlehmann	yeah, but bourne shell is everywhere
22:38	geggam	bash is small enough for me... just giving you some poop
22:38		john_minetest left #minetest
22:39	erlehmann	bash lol
22:39	erlehmann	bash is bigger than all the plan 9 coreutils together
22:39	erlehmann	i mean bourne shell
22:39	erlehmann	sh
22:40	geggam	ah... another plan 9r
22:40	erlehmann	nope
22:40	geggam	one day i might take that plunge
22:40	erlehmann	but bourne shell is literally everywhere
22:40	geggam	so is perl...
22:40	erlehmann	i use rc daily, though
22:40	erlehmann	nope
22:40	erlehmann	perl is not on my phone. or my router.
22:40	erlehmann	busybox is
22:41		Warr1024 joined #minetest
22:41	geggam	your phone is a closed system... you dont own it
22:41	erlehmann	i even avoided readlink(1)
22:41	geggam	router... can go either way
22:48		huw joined #minetest
22:49	huw	hullo!
22:50	Fritigern	Howdy
22:50	shadowzone	howdy doo.
22:50	huw	for some strange reason i've been looking for an alternative to Minecraft today :)
22:51	erlehmann	hahaha
22:51	* huw	pokes around the wiki
22:51	erlehmann	huw minetest is written in c++. its mods are written in lua, however.
22:52	huw	erlehmann: i will take your word for it that that's...good? ;)
22:52	huw	<-- not a coder, sorry
22:52	erlehmann	if you feel lucky, consider building a mod.
22:52	Fritigern	huw: Give it a go and see for yourself ;-)
22:52	erlehmann	huw, yes, that is good.
22:52	huw	just a Linux desktop user who enjoys Minecraft
22:52	huw	*enjoyed
22:52	* Fritigern	uses Kubuntu
22:53	erlehmann	huw, minetest mods can be written as easy as shell scripts or javascript.
22:53	huw	Fritigern: yeah i will definitely check it out
22:53	huw	erlehmann: well i don't really do any scripting but i could definitely give it a go
22:53		proller joined #minetest
22:53	Fritigern	Really? One can use bash to write a MT mod?
22:54	huw	i'm afraid i'm not your average Linux guy....i just use my PC to get stuff done - and play games. i use Linux simply because i prefer it to Windows
22:55	huw	the screenshots look *great*
22:55	Fritigern	huw: I'm not dev, no scripter or anything. I learned how to compile the Singularity viewer myself because i like running pre-alpha stuffs
22:55	erlehmann	fritigern, lua is a very simple language.
22:55	Fritigern	But that is all the compiling/scripting/coding/whatever i do :-)
22:55	erlehmann	ah.
22:56	huw	ooh there's a 1-click installer!
22:56	* huw	clicks
22:56	Fritigern	erlehmann: I have tried my hands on Lua only once, when i wanted to program a turtle in Computercraft or something similar (it;s been a while)
22:56	erlehmann	lel
22:56	bluej100	I wonder if I could make an adapter for my https://github.com/instructure/MinecraftLTI onto minetest
22:57	bluej100	maybe I would just have to port the whole thing
22:57	erlehmann	yeah
22:57		l17 joined #minetest
22:57	bluej100	would it be possible to embed a webserver?
22:57	erlehmann	if people port minecraft mods to minetest, ms loses and the community winds.
22:57	l17	how do i light a torch
22:57	erlehmann	wins.
22:58	Fritigern	erlehmann: I have it on rather reliable authoroty that there are definitely MC modders who are considering modding for MT
22:58	huw	bah. installer failed
22:58	Fritigern	huw, which distro do you use?
22:58	NakedFury	good tell them to come and stop wasting time considering stuff
22:59	huw	Fritigern: OpenSUSE. the 1-click installer couldn't add the required repos. i'm just grabbing the rpm instead
22:59	Geppie	naked, we love wasting time pre bashing microsoft
22:59	Geppie	lol
22:59	NakedFury	ohh you can bash it all you want after you ended your considerations
22:59	erlehmann	fritigern  "definitely considering" haha
22:59	huw	ok. the rpm seems to be working. so will i have to download it again every time the game is updated?
23:00	Sokomine	l17: just craft one (stick+coal) and place it somewhere
23:00	erlehmann	huw i use debian minetest is packaged there.
23:00	huw	(apologies for noob questions - i really am just a desktop user and generally stay away from the technical side of things)
23:00	l17	i  have one in inventory, but right clicking does not woork?!?
23:00	erlehmann	huw maybe suse has packaged it too?
23:00	Sokomine	huw: most of us use the git repro and compile that. it's easy with linux
23:01	huw	Sokomine: i've never tried that. looks like i might have to because the rpm installed but the game won't launch
23:01	Sokomine	l17: it ought to. are you playing in singleplayer or on a server? on a server, you might lack the interact priv and thus not be allowed (yet) to build
23:03	Sokomine	huw: best install git using your distribution. then do a git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git
23:03	huw	Sokomine: ok i'll do that later. thanks
23:03	l17	i dont need to build, i have a torch in the inv
23:03	l17	but i cant seem be able to sue it
23:04	Sokomine	l17: are you on a server or in your own world?
23:04	Sokomine	l17: when you want to place a torch, that's building. just a torch as such, but it does require the right to build
23:05	Sokomine	if the spot is protected by someone else, the protection mod most likely will tell you that
23:05	Fritigern	Sokomine: Are there build instructions that i can have a look at somewhere?
23:06	l17	any1 played prelude of the chambers
23:06	Sokomine	fritigern: there's a nice readme. building is also pretty easy... i use  "cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DENABLE_GETTEXT=1 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=1; make -j2"
23:06	l17	i cant move beyodn the rock
23:06	Fritigern	Sokomine: I like making a bash script for building, so i can share it with other noobs like me :-)
23:07	Sokomine	fritigern: those two lines sit in a bash script on my disk as well :-) that's where i quoted from
23:07	Sokomine	l17: type   /privs yourname    and see if interact is listed
23:11	erlehmann	good night
23:13	RumiaGloop	http://pastebin.com/TFFVu94Q Game Maker Studio: anyone see anything wrong with line 37? not sure why, but the while loop isn't triggering
23:16		compcube joined #minetest
23:18	Geppie	rumia, your usingh GMS for MT?
23:20	kaeza	RumiaGloop, wrong mask/bbox/solid setting?
23:20	kaeza	(for whatever the sprite of obj_blocksomething is)
23:21	kaeza	also, !(x<y) <-- why not (x >= y) ?
23:22		Warr1024 left #minetest
23:23		Hirato joined #minetest
23:23	RumiaGloop	it's not minetest, but I just figured I might ask
23:23		OldCoder joined #minetest
23:24	astralnebula	arch minetest works for people? hasn't for me in a while
23:24	RumiaGloop	kaeza: the mask is set to a square, and I like !(x>y) because it makes it flow more (in this case, if I'm not going to go outside the window)
23:28	kaeza	I don't see anything bad with the condition, though GM used to have wonky operator precedence rules for logical operators back when I used it
23:28	RumiaGloop	kae, that's why ((((((((*PARENTHESES INTENSIFY*))))))))
23:28	kaeza	(`if not x and y` was taken as `not (x and y)` instead of `(not x) and y`)
23:29	* kaeza	parenthesizes even (((x*y)+z)-1) now
23:42		Weedy joined #minetest
23:42		Weedy joined #minetest
23:43		werwerwer joined #minetest
23:43	Fritigern	I have cloned https://github.com/minetest/minetest but how do i combine minetest with minetest_game using git?
23:45	Fritigern	(oh, and i have succesfully built minetest, but according to the readme, without minetest_game only minimal development test will be available)
23:45		Broam joined #minetest
23:45	Fritigern	Broam: welcome back!
23:47		mati1_ joined #minetest
23:48		khonkhortisan_ joined #minetest
23:49		naccall joined #minetest
23:51	Megaf	!server Dont
23:51	MinetestBot	Megaf: Dont enter | 186.215.18.212:30002 | Clients: 0/100, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.10-dev / MegafNew | Ping: 219ms
23:53		Taoki joined #minetest
23:53		Cerise joined #minetest
23:53		daswort joined #minetest
23:55		zat joined #minetest
23:55	Megaf	thats a messed up map
23:57	Sokomine	Fritigern: mv minetest_game  minetest/games/    also keep in mind that the basic game (even not the minimal one) is really very basic. depending on what you like, you ought to install mods
23:58	Fritigern	Sokomine: that is not a git command. I am really looking to have git combine the two folders into my local repo.

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