Time Nick Message 01:47 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw 01:47 RealBadAngel what do you think about it? 02:31 GTRsdk RealBadAngel, looking at lava? 02:32 RealBadAngel yes 02:32 GTRsdk looks trippy 02:33 NakedFury when looking at 22 seconds and up it looks great 02:33 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/CwfeNc1.png 02:34 RealBadAngel some bumpmapping added 02:34 NakedFury damn good lava 02:35 NakedFury really like how it looks 02:36 NakedFury we need this special effect for minetest lava 02:36 NakedFury https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xExdEXOaA9A#t=31 02:42 fu-fu Would I be right in guessing the only way to preserve variables between server restarts is in files? 02:46 fu-fu Also, very pretty. 02:46 exio4 hi 02:46 fu-fu ho 02:47 Exio4 dammit 02:47 fu-fu timmad 02:48 Exio4 hai hai anyway 02:48 Exio4 28-29exio428- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Linux 2.6.37-slitaz [i686/4,01GHz/SMP] 02:48 Exio4 kinda weird 02:48 Exio4 32bits and 4ghz 02:48 Exio4 4012! 02:48 fu-fu Huh. 02:48 fu-fu Why? 02:49 Exio4 because noone sane uses 32bit + 4ghz + 12gb of ram 02:49 Exio4 Mem: 3257 135 3121 0 10 02:49 Exio4 i can use... 3257 mb of ram 02:50 fu-fu Recompile kernel with kexec, and see if you can spontaniously switch it to 64bit? 02:57 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58lS8ptwNkU 02:57 RealBadAngel ^^still lava 02:57 RealBadAngel with bumpmapping ofc 02:58 VanessaE you need to invert that bump-map 02:58 VanessaE the cracks look like ridges 02:58 VanessaE looks good though 02:59 RealBadAngel this is generated on the fly one 05:42 donat how can I remove all entities from the world? 05:43 Vazon ./clearobjects would do it 05:43 Vazon at least i believe so 06:32 donat thanks, it worked 07:35 ThatGraemeGuy any objections to pipeworks-related questions here or is there a better place? 08:00 sfan5 meow 08:00 sfan5 hi everyone 08:00 PenguinDad hi sfan5 08:31 shadowzone Ok is there anyone here who is a op on the other #minetest? 08:36 sfan5 other #minetest? 08:36 sfan5 the one on inchra? 08:36 shadowzone Yes. 08:37 shadowzone there was a netsplit about 5 to 7 minutes ago. 08:47 Krock hi 08:48 shadowzone Hi. 08:50 Calinou hi 09:00 shadowzone VanessaE 09:34 Calinou happy 3rd birthday 0.2_20110731 09:41 Krock :D 09:42 Calinou tomorrow, my forum account is 3 years old 09:43 Calinou in 3 days, I killed an oerkki for the first time 3 years ago 09:44 Krock in 1 day, I'll be playing with fire 11:16 Jordach ello 11:23 RealBadAngel hi Jordach 11:36 PenguinDad Jordach: Dingbats Man was here :P 11:42 RealBadAngel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v52f-1YsSAM 11:42 RealBadAngel ^^ new look 11:47 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/uMzaqOn.png and a screenshot 12:15 Jordach RealBadAngel, you still don't understand that shaders aren't meant just for Haven right 12:16 VanessaE Jordach: he showed me that shader using default 16px lava texture also - it looked pretty good 12:17 VanessaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw 12:17 VanessaE there. 12:17 VanessaE the two nodes in the corner are flowing lava, still using the default texture. 12:17 VanessaE only visible for a few seconds though 12:18 VanessaE and also with HDX: http://i.imgur.com/1YHRQMJ.png 12:29 Jordach i don't see it 12:30 VanessaE bbl 12:32 Jordach i had an oh pls moment 12:34 Jordach !tell Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/wcs5Tq-Yr0tD.png 12:34 MinetestBot Jordach: yeah, sure, whatever 12:35 Jordach and August tomorrow 13:32 luizrpgluiz hi 13:36 luizrpgluiz does anyone here mods? 14:01 RealBadAngel Jordach, for christ sake, shaders are doing on high res sources in the first place 14:02 RealBadAngel 2nd, if you find this lava shader wrong, youre just fuckin blind 14:02 RealBadAngel imho thats the most nice thing i ever made 14:02 RealBadAngel hmmm, here? 14:02 Jordach RealBadAngel, not everyone likes fucking >16px 14:03 PenguinDad Jordach: that's why there are settings to disable these shaders 14:04 RealBadAngel well, that lava is 2048px 14:04 RealBadAngel :P 14:05 RealBadAngel whats funny that lava shader is way faster than default 16px animated :P 14:06 RealBadAngel but anyway, you can feed the shader with any base texture 14:06 RealBadAngel as VanessaE mentioned even 16px looks quite interesting 14:28 Krock hi 14:30 PenguinDad iH :kcorK 14:30 MinetestBot Calinou: 07-31 17:34 UTC https://cdn.mediacru.sh/wcs5Tq-Yr0tD.png 14:31 Calinou lol 14:31 Calinou fun fact, when I first played TF2, I thought “BLU” was a typo 14:32 * Jordach considers making a random node mod 14:34 Calinou if you want to make a mod, make on that makes the /give command smart 14:34 Calinou searches in registered names, to not have to type mod name 14:34 Calinou can type partial name, auto-completion 14:34 Calinou sfan5 said this was possible 14:34 Jordach Calinou, random nodes as in potential conbinations of natual looks 14:38 reactor Evening! 14:38 Krock afternoon! 14:38 reactor proller: heard about the new law? 14:45 Krock Jordach, srsly? still at 3999? 14:48 PenguinDad Krock: Jordach was configured with --enable-the-force :P 14:48 Krock :/ 14:48 Krock seems like sticked the count at 3999 14:49 Krock wut? A 16 bit DOS application tells me about too less virtual ram? 14:50 Jordach >16bit >needs more ram 14:50 Krock >Jordach 14:50 Krock >need more posts 14:50 Jordach 1 more * 14:51 Krock why 1 more? 14:51 Jordach 3999 :P 14:51 Krock 97 posts 14:51 Krock until 4096 14:52 Jordach you do realise i'm timing 4k with something right] 14:54 RealBadAngel Jordach, so compare it to real 16px (or something like that): minecraft lava shader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QT7Qqza9Sw 14:54 RealBadAngel :PPPPPP 14:55 Jordach #notashader 14:56 Jordach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ihfvu9Z4o8 not a fucking "real" light source 14:58 RealBadAngel that lava is ugly as millenium old dogs shit 14:59 Jordach RealBadAngel, and 14:59 RealBadAngel you may be good in blender but you dont have a bit of taste :P 14:59 Jordach try and make the modulation and distortion based on the resoulution of the image 14:59 reactor Speaking of blender. 14:59 Jordach that's used for the shader material 14:59 reactor Everything is grey in Cycles -- is this a known problem? 15:00 Jordach errrr 15:00 * Jordach doesn't use Cycles 15:00 Jordach best ask in #blender 15:00 Jordach or http://reddit.com/r/blender 15:00 RealBadAngel Jordach, lava is combination of 3 textures and some math 15:00 RealBadAngel its not so easily scaleable 15:00 Jordach RealBadAngel, stop hardcoding things D: 15:11 twoelk hi Krock, you use windows don't you? 15:19 twoelk anybody want to try a mapper related batchfile I have been tinkering with? 15:20 Calinou your Windows seems legit, twoelk :P 15:20 * twoelk would like to know if this works on other pc's https://www.dropbox.com/s/tji2lhjknpcnmq0/wizapmapper.zip 15:20 Calinou Windows Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2 (Build 6002) 15:22 mati1 hi 15:22 mati1 dzindybry 15:22 twoelk one of several OS's I use ;-P 15:26 Jordach hai Ecu :3 15:26 * sfan5 meows at Jordach 15:27 Jordach sfan5, [16:25:00] Jordach: Can't, I'm busy. (I just git pulled, since I've been playing BFD instead of Minetest_game) [16:25:05] Jordach: Way better imo. 15:27 sfan5 I don't decide which games get into the release 15:27 sfan5 that info is worthless for me 15:27 jojoa1997 hi 15:27 * sfan5 licks jojoa1997 15:28 * jojoa1997 pets sfan5 15:30 Calinou well, you're always busy with BFD 15:31 Calinou jojoa1997, if you want to give Stunt Rally a try, you should probably start it downloading when you have time 15:32 Jordach i'm an idiot as usual 15:32 Jordach i was doing it wrong 15:35 jojoa1997 Calinou nah i ahve other things 15:36 crazyR has anyone set the mesecons PISTON_MAXIMUM_PUSH settings higher than the default 15? 15:47 Krock Always look up on someone if you're not helping them down. 15:48 PenguinDad Krock: Never look up to someone unless you're helping them down. :P 15:48 Krock Always look up on everybody if you're not pushing them down. 15:48 Krock PenguinDad ^ 15:50 PenguinDad Never look up everybody unless you're spying them :D 15:50 Krock omg. such opposite 15:55 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/qBA6Twlv2OzT.png → Geany colour scheme update 15:55 Calinou more yellow keywords 15:56 * PenguinDad hugs Calinou 15:56 sfan5 !tell hoodedice Droid Sans as a programming font? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/2OKDvLIqQhog.png ew why not monospace fonts? 15:56 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when hoodedice is around 15:57 Calinou use a fixed-width font 15:57 Calinou sfan5, DejaVu Sans Mono or Droid Sans Mono or Fira Mono 15:57 Calinou your colour scheme makes key words hard to read 15:57 sfan5 tell that hoodedice 15:57 Calinou almost impossible :s 15:57 sfan5 I use ency code r normally 15:57 sfan5 envy* 15:57 Calinou I tried to make everything as readable 15:57 Calinou proprietary font :p 15:57 sfan5 https://cdn.mediacru.sh/bFRUGiqUrOT1.png 15:57 Calinou also ugly anyway 15:58 Calinou too thin, feels like 1995 15:58 PenguinDad I usually use Droid Sans Mono 15:59 sfan5 droid sans mono looks 15:59 sfan5 meh 15:59 * Jordach sits there with Consolas 15:59 Jordach or was it courier 16:00 sfan5 Jordach: consolas is a bit too thick and courier is just ugly 16:01 Calinou DejaVu Sans Mono looks smooth, could be slightly more spaced between lines 16:01 Calinou but at least you can show lots of lines on a screen 16:01 Calinou a cave connecting two water pools (seen a few months ago in Carbone): https://cdn.mediacru.sh/J50XJ3eI-HTw.jpg 16:03 Jordach bullshit alarm https://cdn.mediacru.sh/zN_Ukyr-cns9.png 16:03 Jordach i can't be fucked to write a titanic single liner 16:04 sfan5 meow 16:05 Jordach i just want a font without AA and hinting 16:06 sfan5 that doesn't really depend on the font 16:06 * Krock just tested minecraft demo and it not very happy. he got the same fps as in MT (even if MT should have less graphical "operations") 16:06 sfan5 I can set that in my xfce settings 16:06 Jordach Krock, 280fps in the snapshots 16:07 * Krock opens everytime the inventory when trying to walk fast :3 16:07 Calinou what's wrong with AA and hinting?! 16:07 Calinou these things aren't your enemies 16:07 sfan5 ^ 16:08 * Krock 's try to enter /giveme default:hoe_stone failed (well, he could try it with mese, but that's not expectabletowork) 16:08 Jordach Krock, https://twitter.com/SeargeDP/status/491594238329499648 16:08 Calinou Krock, meh, E-as-inventory-key is way smarter, that should've been default in Minetest 16:08 Calinou I use R as use key 16:08 Calinou very good 16:08 Calinou G as drop key 16:08 * twoelk always has inventory on E and fast on F 16:08 Calinou this is layout-agnostic, also works in AZERTY the same way it works on QWERTY 16:08 Calinou I have full range on F 16:08 PenguinDad Krock: that's why I set the inventory key to I in CMc 16:08 PenguinDad *MC 16:08 * Krock has MT defaults and it happy with it 16:09 Krock Jordach, your grpahics card is too good for your eyes 16:09 Krock the screen also can't display such framerate 16:09 twoelk nah mt defaults is two hands 16:10 PenguinDad MC default is two hands too 16:10 Krock now I get why MC alway looks other than MT on screenshots.. the nodes have a bigger shadow! 16:13 twoelk the most dangerous key in mt is Q, way to close to W 16:13 Calinou Q is a crap key 16:13 Calinou it changes on AZERTY, is poorly placed 16:13 twoelk on qwertz that is 16:14 twoelk erm "too close to"? 16:15 Jordach does minetest.dig_node(pos) drop the item on the floor when used? 16:15 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/293 → BlockMen powa! 16:15 Jordach (i'm in need of the method used for dropping when inv full) 16:16 Krock Jordach, for my tests, it only dug them. don't kno about item_drop 16:16 Jordach bleh, i mean literally use the code else where that makes the item drop 16:17 Jordach when your inventory is completely full 16:17 twoelk overflowing inventory? 16:18 twoelk drop the most valuable first :-D 16:18 Jordach twoelk, you know mining stone until it starts falling onto the floor 16:19 twoelk yeah thats when I start storing stuff in the crafting grid 16:19 Jordach twoelk, well i just want the items falling on the floor bit 16:19 twoelk bags in default ftw 16:21 twoelk I love the vacuming effect when you approach dropped items with room in the inventory 16:24 * twoelk is musing about a vacumcleaner mod that deletes the items it sucks up 16:25 Jordach i suppose core.get_item_drops can be used as a substitute 16:27 Jordach PilzAdam, i'm trying to drop items from an abm, eg, remove the node, the drop drops from where the abm activated 16:31 PenguinDad Papyrus is the rarest thing in my subgame :D 16:34 twoelk why make papyrus rare? 16:35 PenguinDad twoelk: it's actually a bug =) 16:35 twoelk oops 16:36 twoelk I think papyrus is rather usefull and quite often too rare on servers 16:36 Krock papyrus blocks are needd. 16:37 twoelk hm 9 papyrus=papyrusblock=bambus? 16:37 Krock papyrus != bambus 16:37 Jordach i have the feeling this might not work 16:37 Jordach http://paste.debian.net/112965/ 16:38 Krock bambus != propr english 16:39 twoelk minetest uses proper english? 16:39 Krock Jordach, why "hardcoding" thoseliquids? just go through all registered nodes 16:39 Jordach items aren't dropping 16:39 Krock minetest much english proper 16:40 Krock ah I see, use group:liquid 16:40 Jordach Krock, can't be bothered 16:40 Jordach a simple list is faster 16:40 Krock k 16:40 twoelk proper can mean in german "all shiney and well made" 16:41 PenguinDad yay! just increasing two numbers fixed it 16:41 Krock can a can be CleAN? 16:41 Jordach seriously - i'm trying to get the drops of a node in that list and make sure it puts them in the world 16:53 Jordach WOOO 17:02 Jordach items now drop from being replaced by flowing liquids 17:04 Calinou cool 17:04 Calinou ABM? 17:04 Jordach yes 17:04 Jordach kinda heavy 17:04 LemonLake yes yes 17:04 LemonLake heavy is 17:04 Jordach mowing the fucking lawn: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/9Npnm7_gqEwe.png 17:05 Jordach i may have brutally murdered a builtin script 17:05 Jordach (and moving it to misc) 17:05 Jordach (if anyone asks, my usual address is running it) 17:12 Calinou pull request to minetest_game, I guess 17:15 sfan5 !up jordach.minetest.net 17:15 MinetestBot jordach.minetest.net:30000 is up (402ms) 17:26 Jordach mew? 17:26 * sfan5 meows at Jordach 17:27 Jordach 56fps in BFD :p 17:27 Jordach (with the VM engaged) 17:29 sfan5 Jordach: spotify:track:2vBQaIronZnOIpZBwSHQYb 17:32 Krock !up minetest.ntdll.net 17:32 MinetestBot minetest.ntdll.net:30000 is up (84ms) 17:33 Jordach turns out theres lots of builtin code that can be used elsewhere 17:33 sfan5 Random thing: servers.minetest.net now supports IPv6 (for the web server, IPv6 for servers was already supported) 17:38 jp__ [ENTER] key still crash MT when pressed... 17:38 sfan5 we know 17:38 sfan5 but nobody wants to fix it 17:39 PenguinDad Roboto Condensed still crashes gimp in debian 17:40 Sokomine hm. if i turn shaders on (for waving plants and water), my fan audibly has more to do. guess i'll better stick to shaders off again for testing...and turn them on only for actual playing 17:42 Calinou Sokomine, shaders on, without waving stuff 17:42 Calinou is what I use, to fix water rendering and such 17:42 Calinou but yeah, shader-less rendering is almost the same now 17:43 Sokomine i like the waving plants. it makes the landscape more enjoyable. and the waving water is also decorative. but for testing, that's not really required 17:44 * Sokomine is generating lots of villages in order to see if they work out as desired 17:44 * sfan5 is meowing 17:44 * PenguinDad pets sfan5 17:45 * sfan5 purrs 17:45 * Sokomine pets sfan5 as well and puts a glass of milk on the table 17:46 * sfan5 noms the milk 17:46 Calinou meh, I hate waving stuff, bad for gameplay, distracting 17:47 jp__ +1 17:47 Calinou Minetest running without FPS limit doesn't make the card any noisier, due to obnoxious CPU limitation 17:47 Calinou (but I limit FPS to make it use less power) 17:47 Sokomine the waving trees are very odd and confusing, yes. as for plants, i like it. but i rarely play survival as such 17:47 rubenwardy Hi all! 17:47 Jordach rubenwardy, ello 17:47 Jordach i did quite a bit of mowing the lawn ;3 17:48 PenguinDad hey rubenwardy 17:48 Sokomine it's only a very small increase in fan speed. it's audible, but only when it's quiet. after all this is still just a celeron g1610 doing the job...not a fancy graphics card :-) 17:48 Sokomine hi rubenwardy 17:48 Sokomine jordach: real one or in bfd? 17:48 Jordach BFD# 17:48 Sokomine ah :-) 17:48 Jordach rubenwardy, Sokomine https://cdn.mediacru.sh/9Npnm7_gqEwe.png 17:48 Jordach water and other liquids remove plants and other stuff ;3 17:49 Sokomine i'm currently puzzling over how to best place fields around the villages generated by nores mapgen. turning the buildings further out into fields helps only to a limited degree. it still looks too odd 17:50 Calinou my CPU fan speed never increases, or I don't hear that increase 17:50 Calinou the latter probably 17:50 Sokomine hmm. i don' like that removing part of water. better add a real harvester :-) a node that travels on raillike nodes and has two "arms" stretching sideways 3 nodes with what looks like 3 tubes from pipeworks would be nice 17:50 Calinou it's not PWM, but motherboard regulates it 17:50 Calinou runs at ~600 rpm at idle (minimum setting) 17:51 Jordach Sokomine, plants don't block water literally, and neither do flowers 17:51 Sokomine i'm using the boxed fan as that was said to be good enough (and quiet enough) for that cpu. and it is. it's really just a slow increase of noise 17:52 Sokomine hmm. but they don't get harvested by water either. the water just flows through 17:52 Calinou woah, boxed fan is crap 17:52 Calinou for small dual cores it's acceptable, nothing more 17:52 Sokomine remember, it's a cheap cpu that doesn't generate much heat anyway 17:52 Calinou but if you want real quietness, you need something better 17:52 Calinou but at least boxed fan is easy to install 17:52 Sokomine exactly. it's the smallest dual core anyway 17:53 Calinou unlike the heatsink I use :/ 17:53 Calinou (and it's not the hardest-to-install one ever seen by mankind) 17:53 Sokomine yes. that was an argument for it as well: with that cheap cpu, i didn't have to worry much about cooling. easy install + quiet + low power consumption...works quite well most of the time :-) 17:54 Sokomine sometimes i wish for a dedicated graphics card though. it'd perhaps allow me to look further or to get at least more fps on far 17:54 VanessaE Jordach, RealBadAngel: I showed Abe that minecraft lava shader, he thought it looked good. then showed him the minetest one with the 16px textures in the corner and he was like "WHOA!". 17:54 Jordach 16px doesn't prove it 17:54 VanessaE Jordach: this video doesn't? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9FZx2f8Uw 17:55 VanessaE Jordach: what would prove it then? aside from needing to see the code of course 17:55 Jordach VanessaE, it doesn't even look like the original texture 17:55 VanessaE it is the original texture. 17:55 Jordach and RBA is hardcoding patterns 17:55 VanessaE the patterns come from a normalmap I believe 17:55 Jordach a simple noise texture solves everything 17:55 VanessaE similar to what's done with the water surface shader 17:55 VanessaE you can replace them via a texture pack 17:56 VanessaE the overlaying texture comes from the textures you supply in your game/texture pack 17:56 Sokomine vanessae: tell it inocudom. he loves improvements on the graphics side :-) 17:56 VanessaE I had him try it with default textures and with the textures supplied in HDX. 17:56 Sokomine sounds like a practical soulution 17:57 Jordach water doesn't have a fucking normal map IRL 17:57 Jordach i don't want graphics from 1998 17:57 LemonLake Jordach: normal maps don't fucking exist IRL 17:57 VanessaE Jordach: no, but it has rippled on the surface. the only sane, efficient way to model something like water is to use normalmapping. 17:57 VanessaE that's how all modern games do it 17:57 LemonLake but do you know how expensive it would be to calculate REAL water? 17:57 Jordach efficient 17:57 Sokomine hmm, those graphics back then wheren't bad. graphics' not everything 17:57 LemonLake reaaallly fucking expensive 17:58 Jordach LemonLake, the perlin noise can be used 17:58 VanessaE Jordach: realtime perlin noise would be ridiculously expensive 17:58 Jordach VanessaE, horse shit 17:58 VanessaE it can't be done, not even with a Titan or tesla. 17:58 Jordach if blender cycles can fucking do it, you're doing it wrong 17:58 Jordach and other video games as well 17:59 VanessaE just because they can doesn't mean they *should* 17:59 Calinou Tesla is not necessarily faster than GeForces, VanessaE 17:59 Calinou they have some more professional features, that's all 17:59 Calinou (but less than Quadros… and they usually don't have video outputs) 17:59 VanessaE Calinou: I know, just going by the benchmarks 18:00 Calinou Jordach, water using normal maps looks quite good 18:01 VanessaE Jordach: you don't expend 100 CPU cycles doing something if you can do it in 10 cycles and spend 100K in image data to get it done. Not if you're doing it in a speed-critical render loop. 18:01 VanessaE in blender, it just doesn't matter., 18:01 VanessaE in a video game, it fucking matters more than ANYTHING. 18:01 LemonLake ^ 18:01 Jordach other video games already produce non repeating water normals 18:01 VanessaE rule number one in speed critical code: memory is cheap. CPU cycles aren't. 18:01 Jordach bullshit 18:01 Jordach 1998 thinking 18:02 VanessaE WHAT 18:02 VanessaE that's even more important now than ever 18:02 Jordach memory is your fucking chokepoint 18:02 VanessaE we can't speed CPUs up anymore, and GPUs are starting to top out now too 18:02 VanessaE (and when I say "CPU cycles" I also, by extension, mean GPU cycles) 18:03 VanessaE if memory is your choke point, your memory is too damned slow or your workload is too big 18:03 VanessaE cache misses are the problem if your memory is too slow 18:03 VanessaE what's the common size of an L1 cache now? 18:03 VanessaE 64k? 256? I can't remember 18:04 Calinou you could tile a texture on several node spaces 18:04 rubenwardy CPU cycles are cheap. Data transfer is not. 18:04 Calinou we really need that in Minetest, good to make textures that tile well 18:04 rubenwardy Most of the time the CPU is waiting for RAM memory 18:04 Calinou (eg. 64 × 64 texture on 4 × 4 × 4 stone area) 18:04 VanessaE Calinou: procedural texturing would help things too 18:04 Calinou not necessarily procedural 18:04 VanessaE but I see what you're saying 18:04 Calinou but this would help a lot already, to have textures that tile well 18:04 PenguinDad Calinou: http://sprunge.us/gAMB 18:05 Calinou what's this, why? 18:05 * Jordach sees a sokomine 18:06 Calinou VanessaE, actually, we do get about 10 % performance increase each year on CPU, and about 20 % per year for GPU 18:06 Calinou (we'll have 20 nm in 2015… everyone promised it for 2014, but it'll only be for 2015, same goes for 14 nm CPUs) 18:07 Calinou DDR 4 next year too, probably 18:07 Calinou so IGPs will be faster (since they rely heavily on system RAM) 18:07 PenguinDad patch for carbone makes the lava cooling code more readable 18:07 VanessaE well 10-20% is okay but really, that's hardly Moore's Law compliant. 18:08 VanessaE point is, stop wasting CPU/GPU cycles to do something that can be done faster in other ways 18:09 PenguinDad ^ Calinou 18:09 Calinou OK 18:09 VanessaE if you can look up something faster in a table than you can calculate it, then use the table. 18:10 VanessaE and that's not 1998 thinking, that's 1982 thinking, when we still used microcomputers and knew how to squeeze every last cycle out of the computer because we HAD to. 18:10 VanessaE it's a lost art and honestly, it's sad :( 18:10 rubenwardy Most of the time the CPU is waiting for RAM memory 18:10 VanessaE rubenwardy: much of the time, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "most". 18:11 VanessaE if it were "most", programs wouldn't be deadlocked at 100% in userspace doing whatever they do (it would be "system" time) 18:11 rubenwardy As long as the table fits in the RAM cache, it should be fine 18:11 VanessaE exactly 18:12 * twoelk misses well writen html not relaying on grafics 18:13 Sokomine i'm curious as to how your mapgen now works, jordach :-) 18:14 Calinou pushed, seems to work 18:14 Calinou it's a lost art and honestly, it's sad :( 18:15 Calinou human time isn't cheap, computer time is 18:15 VanessaE yeah but even human time done for fun? 18:15 Calinou twoelk, flat design relies on graphics less than skeuomorphic design. 18:15 VanessaE why does *every fucking thing* have to be measured in ? :( 18:15 Calinou VanessaE, programming isn't fun to many people 18:15 Calinou in maptools:copper_coin? :p 18:16 VanessaE hah 18:16 Calinou twoelk, so, we do use less images and such than before, because flat design is the new cool thing 18:16 Calinou (and it's good) 18:16 Exio Calinou, the problem is when people saying "meh fuck it" 18:16 Calinou pages load faster, easier to design, less relying on image editing software 18:16 VanessaE you could have at least said gold coins :P 18:16 Exio "i could do it in 3 hours, but i'll do it in 2 hours and half" 18:16 Exio "AND HAVE A 700% PERFORMANCE TRADEOFF" 18:16 twoelk (oh so that is how you spell relies) 18:16 Exio the problem is that computer time IS cheap, not infinite 18:17 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sm8h7j6G1fTr.png 18:17 Calinou how the colour scheme looks now, with Minetest code 18:17 twoelk long times ago I argued with adobe guys on computer fairs that you should not solve everything with graphics 18:18 twoelk they listened but shoved me away when potential custumers showed up 18:19 VanessaE Calinou: if I spend too long reading light-on-dark, I get raster burn :-/ 18:19 VanessaE (ironically IRC and all my terminals are light-on-dark) 18:19 VanessaE (but do it in an editor or on the web and ugh..) 18:19 Calinou oh, I love light-on-dark 18:20 Calinou I made the text bright grey, not white 18:20 Calinou background is dark grey, not black 18:20 Calinou to reduce contrast 18:20 Calinou looks very easy on the eyes to me, all text is actually readable (unlike many syntax colourings where there will be cherry-coloured text on dark grey) 18:20 Calinou comments are visible, they're even highlighted, so you don't forget them :D 18:26 PenguinDad an invisible comment would be useless :D 18:27 twoelk toggling comments can be usefull to see the flow of the code better 18:29 Exio woo 18:29 Exio argentina's economy is fucked up 18:30 Exio can anyone tell me what your news channels are saying @ TV? 18:35 Calinou PenguinDad, many colour schemes make comments hard to read, or make them too discreet 18:35 Calinou see https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/your-syntax-highlighter-is-wrong-6f83add748c9 for comments 18:35 Calinou making them highlighted is probably a better idea 18:37 Exio Calinou, anyway, if you need to use a lot of comments, something is wrong 18:37 Exio unless you're coding in ASM 18:37 Calinou it's good to have comments for stuff that may seem obvious, in 6 months it probably won't be obvious 18:37 VanessaE Exio: no news to watch here (no TV); what's going on in Argentina? 18:38 twoelk last news I heard about Argentina was "economy is in trouble" :-( 18:39 Exio Calinou, use better function names, proper variables, try to solve just a single thing in a single function, make them have less side effects (noone if possible..) 18:39 VanessaE twoelk: not good. comparable to the crisis the US had since 2007, or more like US Great Depression in 1929? 18:40 Exio what you 1929 our 2001? 18:40 Exio your* 18:40 twoelk the word that made me listen was "insolvence" 18:40 Exio it isn't going to be like 2001, if everything goes well, we'll have a super-devaluated currency! 18:41 VanessaE Exio: 1929 and a few years beyond led to mass homelessness and unemployment. it was a HUGE crash for the US economy (and the rest of the world suffered then too) 18:41 Exio VanessaE, what was the unemployment? 18:41 twoelk didn't hear (car-radio) to what that applied though 18:41 Exio +50%? 18:41 Calinou Exio, you should still comment your code 18:41 Calinou and add good spacing too 18:41 Calinou code is like writing, it should feel good to read 18:42 Exio Calinou, "x = randomNumber(seed) // get a random number into x, using " 18:42 Exio ths? 18:42 Exio this*? 18:42 twoelk 1929 was part of the fertilizer for the brown 30's in Germany 18:43 Calinou I don't do that, Exio 18:43 Calinou sounds = default.node_sound_wood_defaults(), -- Intended. 18:43 Calinou eg. this for Mese block 18:43 Calinou so that people don't report this as a bug, and to not make myself surprised when I look at it later 18:43 Exio tell me what kind of comments do you need to specify in a normal high-language nowdays 18:43 Exio Calinou, you should define a local function 18:43 Exio "sounds" 18:43 Jordach most of my animated chest code is UN commented 18:44 Exio or a local table, or stuff 18:44 Exio and make the code be obvious 18:44 Exio also, try to avoid the "how the computer should solve this problem" and instead abstract the "low-level stuff" as much as possible 18:45 Exio anyway, that isn't possible in dynamic languages :( 18:45 Exio Calinou, (Generalized) Algebraic data types + Phantom types 18:45 Jordach biggest lie of all time https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sNfHdtVkoiOf.png 18:46 LemonLake Jordach: if it takes that long it means the subtitles are corrupted 18:47 Jordach LemonLake, i mean the building of it 18:47 Jordach >minute >takes 3 minutes 18:48 Exio at least it finishes 18:48 Exio if i do that here it'd take 15 minutes and then the system would crash 18:48 Exio probably... 18:49 Exio we need a hs to lua compiler! 18:49 Exio or maybe a super-set of lua with a typesystem and algebraic datatypes 18:49 Exio sounds kinda nice 18:50 Exio a super-set of lua :D 18:50 Exio sadly lua isn't lisp... 18:50 Exio or it'd be easy ;P 18:50 PenguinDad we need a [insert your favourite] to lua compiler! 18:50 PenguinDad + language 18:51 Exio imo a superset of lua would be kinda neat 18:51 Calinou MoonScript? 18:51 Calinou you could write Minetest mods in it 18:51 Calinou there's also Vortex, by q66 18:51 Calinou q66, (is that thing useful?) 18:52 Exio Calinou, what about the types? 18:52 * PenguinDad throws http://squirrel-lang.org/ in the channel 18:52 Exio a typesystem + adts would be very useful when writing mods 18:53 q66 q66, (is that thing useful?) 18:53 q66 no 18:53 q66 i put it on hiatus 18:53 q66 with that i'll redesign it... one day 18:53 q66 also moonscript sucks :P 18:53 q66 just use lua 18:54 Exio vortex sounds like what i would like to use 18:54 q66 also integrating a typesystem with tables and metatables is painful and probably near impossible 18:54 Exio i wouldn't want a sound typesystem 18:55 q66 doesn't matter if sound or unsound 18:55 q66 tables are dynamic 18:55 q66 so they cannot easily be typed 18:55 Exio yeah, i still think some kind of type safety in a few cases would be possible 18:55 q66 i was experimenting with this 18:55 q66 it's difficult 18:56 q66 in my game engine i use a superset of lua https://github.com/quaker66/luacy 18:56 q66 not typed though 18:56 q66 just a few things i found handy 18:57 paramat hmmmm is there any way to control or predict the order of 'on generated' functions of multiple terrain processing mods? Also, intersecting mod update with screenshot https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9521&p=149438#p149438 18:58 rubenwardy paramat: it is FIFO 18:58 rubenwardy So depends on loading of mods 18:59 Krock paramat, +1, I support this idea 18:59 rubenwardy you could probably do minetest.registered_on_generated.insert(1, function) -- inserts at first. 19:00 paramat thanks 19:00 rubenwardy * minetest.registered_on_generated.insert(function, 1) 19:04 paramat can this 'loading of mods' be controlled by their dependancies? 19:05 Krock yes ^ 19:06 Krock but idk about the on_generated function 19:08 rubenwardy If you depend on a mod, the do their on_generated first 19:08 rubenwardy *they 19:08 VanessaE rubenwardy: it's not FIFO either. 19:08 VanessaE not if vmanip is involved. 19:08 rubenwardy Huh? 19:08 VanessaE see the recent compatibility problem between snow mod and plants_lib 19:09 VanessaE I think there's an issue filed against minetest engine for it 19:09 rubenwardy It is run in FIFO, but there is no guarantee that the nodes are saved in time for your callback. 19:09 VanessaE that's the problem. 19:09 VanessaE either Lua is single-threaded or it isn't. 19:09 rubenwardy So it is as if it is simultaneous. 19:10 paramat no one seems to know for sure, that's why i'm asking the expert 19:10 VanessaE simultaneous is a problem 19:10 VanessaE a BIG problem 19:11 PenguinDad paramat: hmmm isn't the only expert ;) 19:11 rubenwardy You question was about the order of functions, which is pretty easy. FIFO. The order of application of changes is harder. 19:11 paramat ah i see 19:13 Calinou FIFO? 19:14 PenguinDad Calinou: First-In First-Out 19:15 Calinou ah 19:19 rubenwardy A quick google would tell you :P 19:20 Calinou not Google 19:20 Krock DDG 19:21 rubenwardy DDG doesn't return anything relevant 19:21 rubenwardy (exaggeration) 19:21 PenguinDad rubenwardy: it does for me :/ 19:21 Exio4 layer 8 problems 19:23 * sfan5 licks Exio4 19:24 PenguinDad Layer 8 is often poorly implemented :D 19:25 paramat it could be a race condition, so i will code mods to behave properly whatever the order of vmanip execution 19:30 LemonLake why not have some sort of global table or something? 19:33 VanessaE paramat: all I know is when snow mod started using vm's, plants_lib stopped working with it because snow's vm actions erase plants_lib's actions entirely. it's since been patched to at least allow plants_lib's non-snow-biome actions to work, but it's still partly busted. 19:33 VanessaE it's an engine fault, because the two mods are meant to work together. 19:35 VanessaE (and plants_lib does NOT use vm's) 19:40 Jordach fuck 19:40 Jordach we're halfway through the year already 19:40 VanessaE yep 19:40 Krock yeah. noticed that too 19:40 Krock some hours ago, it was sprin 19:40 Krock g 19:42 * sfan5 meows at Jordach 19:43 Jordach GTV5 for PC looks fucking insane 19:44 Jordach GTA* 19:44 LemonLake oh wow it does 19:45 hmmmm paramat: callbacks are performed in the order the callbacks were registered 19:45 VanessaE hmmmm: nope.avi 19:45 Calinou Jordach, like its hardware requirements, probably 19:46 * Jordach pokes VanessaE about making a data cache for BFD that's moderately upto date 19:46 VanessaE (maybe they're *supposed* to, but it doesn't work in practice :) ) 19:46 hmmmm okay, why 19:46 Exio then something is fucked up? 19:46 hmmmm VanessaE: if you're saying that I'm wrong, that implies there is a bug somewhere 19:47 VanessaE hmmmm: not saying you're wrong, per se. Rather that the engine is. 19:47 VanessaE lemme search a sec. 19:47 Exio he just said what the engine should do 19:47 VanessaE there it is 19:47 hmmmm the engine does not call each individual callbacks, it only calls builtin.lua:core.run_callbacks() 19:47 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1354 19:48 VanessaE hmmmm: this issue explains it better. 19:48 VanessaE I don't like calling you wrong :) 19:50 VanessaE Jordach: I'm gonna redo the caches soon; the main one is based mostly around dreambuilder's media but some of that is "outdated" relative to what you might want 19:50 hmmmm wait a minute 19:50 paramat thanks hmmmmm 19:50 hmmmm let's think about this rationally for a minute 19:50 hmmmm mapgen is finished, Map::finishBlockMake is called, VoxelManipulator is not destroyed at this point, but merely the contents have been blit back 19:50 hmmmm THEN the callbacks are called in order of their registration 19:51 VanessaE hmmmm: yes - but those callbacks' mapgen operations are *ignored* 19:51 VanessaE or something. 19:51 hmmmm an on_generated callback may obtain the mapgen object voxelmanip from that thread and the LuaVoxelManip wrapper is created around it 19:52 hmmmm so let's say callback #1 uses this 19:53 hmmmm at this point it should not need to call read_from_map because the contents are still loaded from the mapgen 19:53 hmmmm but they still need to call write_to_map after they're done 19:54 hmmmm okay 19:54 hmmmm so the problem can exist if the voxelmanip-using callback happens after the set_node call one 19:55 VanessaE more or less yeah 19:55 hmmmm callback #1 does some set_node, so the Map is updated but the mapgen's VoxelManipulator contents are not 19:55 VanessaE see: 19:55 hmmmm then callback #2 using the voxelmanip thinks 19:55 hmmmm "oh I can save a step and not read from the map!" 19:55 VanessaE in the past, the snow mod used set_node()/get_node() and plants_lib opt-depended on it, so it just worked. 19:55 hmmmm now let's be real here 19:55 hmmmm this can NOT be fixed 19:55 VanessaE now snow mod uses vm's to do its mapgen work 19:55 Jordach VanessaE, what's the cURL line? 19:56 LemonLake Jordach: ____ 19:56 hmmmm it would require each mapgen's internal voxelmanip object to be updated from within Map 19:56 * Jordach claps 19:56 LemonLake More accurately: ____) 19:56 VanessaE Jordach: remote_media = http://192.99.11.10/creative-survival-media/ 19:56 hmmmm but the voxelmanipulator is not some external, persistant object 19:56 Jordach VanessaE, got it 19:56 hmmmm it lives for only one makeChunk call, and then gets deallocated 19:57 sfan5 VanessaE: why no index.mth? 19:57 VanessaE hmmmm: but we're talking about *one* mod that uses vm's within on_generated, competing with *one* mod that uses only traditional set_node/get_node calls within on_generated 19:57 hmmmm if you were to really update each voxelmanipulator then you'd need the envlock back 19:57 VanessaE sfan5: too lazy to fix. 19:57 hmmmm or you'd need to add a new lock for mapgen voxelmanipulators 19:57 Jordach remote_media = minetest.digitalaudioconcepts.com/ 19:57 Jordach ^ VanessaE 19:57 hmmmm vanessae: okay, so we are, what's the point? 19:57 Jordach just waiting for the folder name :P 19:58 sfan5 VanessaE: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560 19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: the point is that the changes are being written out-of-order relative to the mods' reads 19:58 sfan5 Jordach: you probably need a http:// 19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: you've got mod A reads map, mod B reads map, mod B writes map, mod A writes map. Ergo mod B's changes got overwritten. 19:58 VanessaE hmmmm: it should be mod A reads, mod A writes, B reads, B writes. 19:58 Jordach sfan5, at least my clipboard is synced between Host and Guest 19:59 Krock we need priorities. 19:59 hmmmm perhaps there should be a new voxelmanip object method that would just return a bool that is set if it's "dirty" 19:59 hmmmm so then some code would be like 19:59 hmmmm vm = minetest.get_mapgen_object("voxelmanip") 19:59 hmmmm if vm.is_dirty() then 19:59 hmmmm vm.read_from_map(emin, emax) 19:59 hmmmm ?? 19:59 Krock else ? 20:00 hmmmm if it's not in a dirty state, then the VM hasn't been invalidated yet and you don't need to do anything 20:00 VanessaE hmmmm: you're proposing putting that in mod B's on_generated calls? 20:00 hmmmm in all on_generated calls from this point forward 20:00 VanessaE that's messy 20:01 hmmmm got a better idea then? 20:01 VanessaE we're talking about mods that *don't use* vm's at all here, being overwritten by mods that do 20:01 PenguinDad Krock: else print("Yay, the voxelmanip isn't dirty!") 20:01 PenguinDad end 20:01 Krock :D 20:02 VanessaE e.g. a mod that generates terrain using vm's is keeping a mod that uses traditional calls to add stuff to the terrain from being able to actually add its stuff because the terrain is overwriting those changes 20:02 VanessaE despite the second mod depending on the first 20:02 VanessaE (ergo the second mod always loads and runs last) 20:02 hmmmm got a better idea then? 20:02 VanessaE not at present 20:03 VanessaE except that if there's a vm object "open" for a given mod, I can only say to lock it 20:03 hmmmm perhaps there can be a convenience wrapper that keeps getting the data at one call, and validates the VM contents 20:03 hmmmm like 20:03 hmmmm vm.get_current_data() 20:03 VanessaE if you're somehow running this stuff concurrently, or there's any way at all for another mod to read/write the map and there's a vm "open" for a given mapblock, you're gonna have to envlock that mapblock so that shit gets done in the order that it should, until the vm is "released" 20:04 hmmmm lol 20:04 VanessaE (please excuse me if I don't know the terms properly) 20:04 hmmmm vanessa, none of this is concurrent. 20:04 hmmmm alright 20:04 VanessaE if it's not concurrent, then how are these two mods possibly able to move from a read A, write A, read B, write B pattern, ---> to read A, read B, write B, write A when neither mod has any control over that? 20:05 hmmmm vanessae: no mod shall ever do that latter pattern 20:05 VanessaE but that's exactly what's happening. 20:05 hmmmm it'll have unpredictable results 20:05 hmmmm no no 20:05 VanessaE yes yes 20:05 hmmmm mod A is not reading 20:05 hmmmm it's just using data that had been invalidated thanks to the mod using set_data() 20:05 hmmmm the only thing doing reading to the VM is the mapgen 20:06 VanessaE "read" means in this case either getting a vm object or doing a get_node() call. 20:06 hmmmm read to the mapgen 20:06 hmmmm er voxelmanip 20:06 hmmmm whatever 20:06 hmmmm trust me, this is plenty clean 20:07 hmmmm I'm going to add a new method to LuaVoxelManip called get_current_data() that'll check to see if the VM contents have been invalidated, and if so, make a new call to read_from_map() before finally returning the result of get_data() 20:07 VanessaE point is, mod A does all it's work in its on_generated call, then mod B gets to run its on_generated calls. But mod B's on_generated calls, which I have confirmed are in fact being run, are being completely overwritten by mod A's 20:07 hmmmm so you'll be able to do like 20:07 hmmmm data = vm.get_current_data() 20:07 hmmmm instead of data = vm.get_data() 20:07 hmmmm it might be a little bit slower but 20:07 paramat to clarify i don't particularly need control over the order, just curious. vanessa's problem is more important 20:07 hmmmm it'll be consistent and there will be no data loss 20:08 hmmmm VanessaE: what is the logical issue with my solution? 20:08 hmmmm paramat: no, but you brought up an important issue 20:08 hmmmm lol I'm supposed to be doing work right now :) 20:08 VanessaE hmmmm: if your solution requires any changes to any mod, it's already wrong 20:08 VanessaE that's the thing 20:09 hmmmm there is literally NO other way to fix this 20:09 VanessaE what? 20:09 VanessaE when the callback exits, the vm should be deleted/released/marked dirty, whatever 20:09 hmmmm yeah but 20:09 hmmmm the thing that'll set the VM to dirty would be the set_node() call 20:09 hmmmm hmmm 20:10 hmmmm I can't set something to dirty in between callbacks, you'd have to modify builtin to do that 20:10 hmmmm in run_callbacks() where the loop is 20:12 * hmmmm ponders if what he's about to do is threadsafe 20:15 hmmmm this invalidated flag would need to be in the actual VoxelManipulator object 20:15 hmmmm since that's the only object persistent across all callbacks whereas LuaVoxelManip wrappers are not 20:16 hmmmm there is one LuaVoxelManip object for each callback that gets associated with the very same VM 20:17 VanessaE the thing is, you've got potentially dozens of other callbacks happening. that's why I'm dead set against adding to the API to fix this 20:17 hmmmm then fix it yourself 20:17 VanessaE wat? 20:17 hmmmm i'm not a miracle worker 20:17 VanessaE wtf? 20:18 VanessaE look, this is simple - the callback happens, Lua gets its vm object, makes its changes, writes the results and exits, right? 20:19 VanessaE I mean from an abstract point of view, that's what happens 20:20 VanessaE when that callback exits, there should be nothing standing in the way of another callback coming along, twiddling some nodes on the now-written results (because the mod load order said "ok, this mod's callback comes next in the list") 20:21 VanessaE someone needs to at least remove "not a bug" from the issue report. this IS an engine bug. I've been over my code with a fine-toothed comb. SPlizard has been over his code. I've looked at it too. 20:21 VanessaE there's NO way this should be happening. 20:21 hmmmm are you sure you're understanding the actual issue? 20:22 hmmmm the mapgen voxelmanip contents stay the same as they were right after the core mapgen finished its job 20:22 hmmmm mod A is writing to the map with set_node() 20:22 VanessaE yes, I get that 20:22 VanessaE nononono 20:22 hmmmm this actually commits the changes immediately 20:22 VanessaE stop there 20:22 hmmmm what. 20:22 VanessaE you're misunderstanding me. 20:23 VanessaE Mod A gets a VM object and makes its changes. 20:23 VanessaE it writes the map. 20:23 hmmmm ok 20:23 VanessaE Mod B comes along with set_node() and makes its changes. 20:23 hmmmm sure 20:23 hmmmm now what precisely is the problem 20:23 VanessaE but somehow, mod B's changes, which took place *after* mod A's VM was written, are being *ignored* 20:24 hmmmm now hold on a minute 20:24 VanessaE and Mod B is NOT using a VM. 20:24 hmmmm how do you *know* that mod B was called after 20:24 VanessaE because Mod B depends on mod A? 20:24 VanessaE (opt-depend via depends.txt that is) 20:25 hmmmm did you actually print out to the console in on_generated and verify that, yes, mod A on_generated is called first, before mod B's? 20:25 hmmmm because the scenario in which you depicted is quite impossible 20:25 VanessaE yes, I did. 20:25 VanessaE we went over it and over it. 20:25 VanessaE because mod B (in this case it's plants_lib but the name is irrelevant) contains callbacks that depend on mod A's nodes. 20:26 hmmmm as long as mod A is the one doing the voxelmanip stuff, this should not happen 20:26 VanessaE right. 20:26 VanessaE but it does. 20:26 hmmmm I bet you're using voxelmanip wrong 20:26 hmmmm there's literally no other logical way for this to happen 20:26 hmmmm we're talking about logic here 20:27 VanessaE well SPlizard is in charge of the snow mod ("mod A"), not me, but I've looked at the code and I couldn't see anything wrong with it. 20:27 hmmmm link me? 20:27 VanessaE no one even answered his last question from a month ago :( 20:28 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2290&p=142223#p142223 -- and the issue, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1354 20:28 VanessaE ah, that wasn't the link I wanted actually, but hey, that's a good place to start reading. 20:29 VanessaE (I meant to paste the link to the first page and ultimately the github sources, which are here: https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod-snow/ ) 20:30 VanessaE I believe the code you'll be most interested in is here: 20:30 VanessaE https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod-snow/blob/848f30543d08570368fd59df9f97b8d6d5ee02f3/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L19 20:30 VanessaE this is before his hack to try to get around this issue. 20:31 hmmmm hmm 20:31 hmmmm well it seems okay so far 20:31 hmmmm what the heck is wrong with his perlin noise calls though 20:31 VanessaE but it's pretty simple. he gets his vm object, modifies it, calcs lighting, and writes it. 20:31 VanessaE idk, I'm sure he's since improved his perlin code. 20:32 hmmmm why does he create a brand new perlin noise object for every single tile, why does he not use the perlin maps to begin with 20:32 * hmmmm scratches head 20:32 VanessaE the current version, post-hack is here: https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod-snow/blob/master/src/mapgen_v6.lua#L22 20:33 hmmmm the original mapgen code looks alright 20:33 VanessaE still the same thing, with write-to-map if'd for the hack. 20:33 VanessaE hm. he generates assho----er iceholes ;-) 20:35 VanessaE now, you can compare that to plants_lib's calls if you want to, but they're basically the same deal - on_generated --> wrapper function --> bunch of get_node calls filtered through perlin and biome checks, followed by set_node, function calls, or spawn_tree() calls as needed, and then exit. no vm's there. 20:35 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_modpack/blob/master/plants_lib/init.lua#L111 20:36 Calinou (unrelated to current discussion) I found this, may be worth reading for modders: http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-best-code-is-no-code-at-all/ 20:42 Exio Calinou, make the code more modular using high-order-functions and without caring too much about the underlying hardware, abstract the problem with nice syntax, etc :P (?) 20:42 Exio function composition is quite nice 20:43 hmmmm vanessae, you don't need to ever call voxelmanip.update_map() if you're calling from a mapgen voxelmanip object 20:43 Krock sfan5, would you be so bored and may cross compile dillo-3.0.4 for windows? :3 20:45 hmmmm vanessae, could it be that there is more than one mod that uses voxelmanip? 20:46 VanessaE hmmmm: if there is, I am not aware of it, however in this case no I'm certain that only snow mod uses vm's in the tests SPlizard and I were doing. 20:46 VanessaE as I recall from the initial investigation, we or someone else narrowed it down to *just* snow + plantlife modpack 20:47 VanessaE and still it bugged out 20:47 paramat update_map is for the non mapgen object voxelmanip only 20:47 VanessaE maybe you could mention the vm.update_map() comment on the issue? 20:48 paramat sure 20:48 VanessaE I meant hmmmm :) 20:48 VanessaE but whoever :)( 20:51 hmmmm really have no idea 20:52 hmmmm i don't see how it could possibly happen 20:54 VanessaE hmmmm: feel like trying it out? :) just comment out snow mod mapgen_v6.lua line 307 (and the corresponding end at 324), and run it with plantlife and undergrowth modpacks (easier to see if it's working that way) 20:56 VanessaE unless he's added more hacks, what you should get is fairly plain ordinary minetest_game terrain, with snow biomes here and there, as if plantlife and undergrowth aren't even present. 20:56 VanessaE or rather, what you're likely to get. 20:57 VanessaE (what you should get is a wildly organic, natural, rough terrain with lots of plants and such) 20:59 VanessaE and no, plants_lib's depends.txt doesn't mention snow mod (because I didn't keep it after the attempt failed) 21:09 Exio VanessaE, you use xubuntu, no? 21:09 Exio i need a dark theme, know any good one? 21:11 VanessaE I use xubuntu but with a light theme 21:12 VanessaE ("xfce-4.2" theme to be exact) 21:12 VanessaE maybe xfce-dusk might work for you 21:13 Exio my eyes already hurt 21:13 Exio and i'm using a not-so-light theme.. 21:14 * Jordach bagged 5 free games from steam 21:14 PenguinDad o_O I just had a download speed of 200KB/s 21:16 Calinou I'm surprised when I reach 500 KB/s 21:17 Exio i'm surprised when i reach 30kb/s 21:17 PenguinDad Calinou: that's my_usual_speed * 8 21:18 Exio !c 500/8 21:18 MinetestBot 62.5 21:19 PenguinDad Exio: I was talking about the 200KB/s 21:19 Exio ,wa 200/8 21:19 Krock !c 22/7 21:19 MinetestBot 3.142857142857143 21:19 Exio !c 200/8 21:19 MinetestBot 25.0 21:19 Krock omg. it has decimals! 21:19 Krock *she 21:22 jin_xi sup 21:22 Jordach soap 21:23 Krock catsoup 21:25 Krock <3 http://www.whatsmyuseragent.com/ 21:25 jin_xi you guise into dwarf fortress? new release is out 21:25 jin_xi it har really nice trees 21:25 jin_xi s 21:27 VanessaE but..but...moretrees :( 21:28 Krock lua (vm) generated trees are also nice 21:28 jin_xi well, ascii graphics leaf more to the imagination but they are huge, bloom in spring and all that seasonal crap and they have roots! 21:28 Jordach Krock, schematic trees are even faster 21:29 Jordach just ask BFD 21:29 Krock BFD, are they faster? 21:29 VanessaE no fucking way :P 21:30 jin_xi it always amazes me how dynamic df's ascii graphics are. ever tried embarking on a beach? surfs up 21:31 Jordach VanessaE, schems are raw nodes 21:31 VanessaE so? 21:32 jin_xi nodules crudes 21:32 Krock raw. 21:32 Krock raw meat node? 21:34 Jordach VanessaE, updated my media cache? 21:35 VanessaE YOUR cache? :P 21:35 Jordach well, you know 21:35 Jordach Sokomine actually waited on UDP 21:35 VanessaE I'll take care of it later tonight 21:36 Jordach thank you :3 21:36 Jordach under bfdmedia 21:36 VanessaE ehm... 21:36 VanessaE you know, you could do it yourself too :P 21:36 * Jordach doesn't have anywhere to put it for cURL 21:40 PenguinDad VanessaE: does this look correct to you? https://cdn.mediacru.sh/sayfkMjUVvzt.png 21:41 VanessaE compared to what? 21:42 VanessaE oh. 21:42 VanessaE did you comment-out the two lines I mentioned? 21:43 PenguinDad VanessaE: just one line is commented out 21:43 VanessaE what one line? 21:44 VanessaE you have to comment-out lines 307 and 324 of snow mod mapgen_v6.lua (and delete/re-generate the map) for the glitch to show itself 21:45 VanessaE those lines are a hack SPlizard added to work around this conflict. all they do more or less is turn off the snow mod's vm if it's not actually in a snow biome area 21:46 VanessaE which ultimately is a little bit faster, but in theory it shouldn't need to be turned off at all. nevertheless with those lines commented out you shouldn't be able to reproduce that screenshot. 21:46 VanessaE and with or without those lines, in a snow biome you should be able to see moretrees small firs. but you won't because of the conflict. 22:18 PenguinDad I couldn't investigate anything except that his code quite messy :/ 22:18 PenguinDad + is 22:19 VanessaE PenguinDad: well just comment out those two lines, delete the map, let it re-gen, and take a screenshot of the same area 22:19 VanessaE then show it to me 22:19 VanessaE I'll be able to tell you if it's still glitching 22:20 VanessaE (it's entirely possible for the glitch to have already been fixed in the engine but I doubt it in this case :P ) 22:22 PenguinDad there was only one way for me to be able to see undergrowth and plantlife nodes naturally generated 22:22 VanessaE which is? 22:23 Exio4 \o/ 22:23 PenguinDad I had to comment out line 316 22:24 VanessaE same difference. 22:24 VanessaE that'll just be the equiv of not having snow installed, really 22:24 VanessaE so you just experienced the glitch I was talking about. 22:25 VanessaE congrats :) 22:26 PenguinDad interesting but I'm going to sleep now 22:30 VanessaE hmmmm: still think it's being done wrong in the Lua side? ;) 22:32 hmmmm I really don't know 22:32 hmmmm i stopped looking at it a while ago 22:38 VanessaE hmmmm: could you at least unmark the "not a bug" from the issue 22:38 VanessaE (and correspondingly, unmark it from "feature request") 22:40 Jordach tl;dr deathly spread IS OP 22:45 Eater4 VanessaE: can you try to do /op on isis.inchra.net #minetest 22:46 VanessaE Eater4: how? I don't have op there. 22:46 VanessaE stupid services have been down forever 22:47 Eater4 VanessaE: try, you might have Oo privs there, witch means you can op anywhere 22:47 VanessaE nope.avi 22:48 Exio4 >.< 22:48 Eater4 only if shadowninja oped my bot! 22:52 Eater4 I have control over #botwar though 23:14 Jordach 00:14:15: ERROR[main]: Map::setNode(): Not allowing to place CONTENT_IGNORE while trying to replace "mapgen:deathly_grass_2" at (-212,2,144) (block (-14,0,9)) 23:14 Jordach ^ wat 23:19 SylvieLorxu s/deathly/deadly/ 23:25 VanessaE Jordach: your node is undefined at that point. 23:26 VanessaE it places IGNORE if you try to set a node with a bad/typoed name 23:26 VanessaE (and then fails with that error) 23:28 twoelk for those runnung the windows version of the Minetest-mapper, you may want to test this https://www.dropbox.com/s/tji2lhjknpcnmq0/wizapmapper.zip (just added some validity checking) 23:30 Exio4 :( 23:30 Exio4 i can't install moar stuff 23:55 luizrpgluiz hi