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us`0gb |
So I hear LevelDB is having race condition issues. |
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ezraanderson |
anybody familiar with the android build |
| 03:00 |
ezraanderson |
stuck on grey screen with this error |
| 03:01 |
ezraanderson |
client isnn't active yet |
| 03:01 |
ezraanderson |
no usefull logs in logcat |
| 03:02 |
ezraanderson |
ERROR[ServerThread]: Got packet command: 60 for peer id 2 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet |
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ezraanderson |
it happens on release & debug builds |
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CatInTheHat |
AnotherBrick are you afk? |
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MinetestBot |
LemonLake: 07-15 03:24 UTC <Jordach> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1P--nTP-u0 |
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| 07:14 |
sfan5 |
meow |
| 07:14 |
sfan5 |
hi everyone |
| 07:14 |
RealBadAngel |
hi |
| 07:15 |
RealBadAngel |
sfan5, wanna test some code that should speed up game a bit? |
| 07:15 |
* sfan5 |
nods |
| 07:15 |
RealBadAngel |
take a look: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/991fee16f27959acd7851693f7e75e6f6d3ce46b |
| 07:16 |
RealBadAngel |
im compiling now for the last time to check if everythin is ok |
| 07:18 |
* sfan5 |
wgets patch |
| 07:18 |
sfan5 |
warning: 6 lines add whitespace errors. |
| 07:18 |
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| 07:18 |
RealBadAngel |
ouch, i thought i found them all already |
| 07:19 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: http://sprunge.us/KYdi |
| 07:19 |
RealBadAngel |
thx, will fix it |
| 07:22 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: compiles. |
| 07:27 |
sfan5 |
RealBadAngel: can't detect any problems |
| 07:28 |
RealBadAngel |
good. what about fps? |
| 07:29 |
sfan5 |
I always have 60 fps anyway |
| 07:30 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont have such fast pc, so im below 60 |
| 07:31 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why im coding such fixes :) |
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RealBadAngel |
sfan5, ive changed a bit code that calculates contrast for faces shading, does it feel the same as before for you? |
| 08:15 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 08:16 |
RealBadAngel |
ok |
| 08:16 |
RealBadAngel |
im working also on cracks, but thats tough one |
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| 08:31 |
jp__ |
Hi. |
| 08:32 |
sfan5 |
Hi. |
| 08:32 |
jp__ |
sfan5 : the MTS filter that you have post just now on forum have been created these last days or you already gave it to me ? |
| 08:33 |
sfan5 |
should be the one you already ha |
| 08:33 |
sfan5 |
ve |
| 08:33 |
jp__ |
Ok. |
| 08:38 |
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| 08:39 |
jp__ |
sfan5 : it should avoid the entire closure of MCEdit when stopping an active filter process. |
| 08:39 |
sfan5 |
you can't abort it (unfortanely) |
| 08:40 |
jp__ |
:/ |
| 08:41 |
Calinou |
“We would like you to be the first to know of an exciting update to Ohloh.net. This week, Ohloh will be changing its name to the Black Duck Open Hub. †|
| 08:41 |
Calinou |
yeah… Ohloh sounded too much like “Oh lol†|
| 08:41 |
Calinou |
but it's not like we can't joke on the new name |
| 08:43 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: got that, too |
| 08:43 |
VanessaE |
a name change is "exciting"? |
| 08:45 |
Calinou |
to marketers, it is |
| 08:46 |
VanessaE |
pfft |
| 08:46 |
Calinou |
we should just say any change in Minetest also is, to have more players |
| 08:46 |
Calinou |
“Added exciting third person; added exciting desert cobblestone†|
| 08:47 |
Calinou |
:o Freeminer has mgv5 |
| 08:47 |
Calinou |
and minimap |
| 08:47 |
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* sfan5 |
meows at Calinou |
| 08:52 |
* Krock |
meows at Calinou |
| 08:56 |
Calinou |
yet another “raspi is fast†person |
| 08:56 |
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| 09:00 |
Calinou |
Freeminer's farmesh is strange at the beginning, but actually works quite well |
| 09:00 |
AMMOnym |
Hi there. On minetest forum I saw one video, where someone spawned a lot of BOTs. I really dont know name of this video but somebody maybe know it. Is here any way how can I spawn these bots too ? Thanks for answer :) |
| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/icmp_redirect_attacks_in_the_wild |
| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
someobody must be joking |
| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
198.168.103.11 (the customer's IP address, changed to protect their identity) |
| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
>private IP |
| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
>protect identity |
| 09:02 |
Calinou |
bots? |
| 09:02 |
Calinou |
you mean NPCs? |
| 09:03 |
AMMOnym |
In this video somebody spawn a lot of bots which make him a hole in the ground( They were 2D) |
| 09:09 |
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| 09:09 |
Krock |
so. updated the driver |
| 09:10 |
AMMOnym |
Finnaly i got it :D I looked for this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hny6ovvGR3Y |
| 09:13 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 09:13 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Freeminer server, 100 bots online. - YouTube |
| 09:14 |
Krock |
.. |
| 09:16 |
Krock |
yay! I can watch YT videos without a browser freeze! |
| 09:26 |
Calinou |
https://cdn.mediacru.sh/5MM6EBPa9SIy.jpg |
| 09:26 |
Calinou |
v5 cave |
| 09:27 |
Calinou |
mgv5 is currently only in freeminer, mapgen selection is buggy; edit the world files to change mapgen after creating an indev world. |
| 09:27 |
Calinou |
however, there will be no trees |
| 09:27 |
Krock |
no trees... that's not good |
| 09:28 |
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| 09:31 |
* Krock |
haz OpenGL 2.1.2 nao |
| 09:33 |
* Krock |
notices fps drop when chunks get drawn |
| 09:33 |
* sfan5 |
meows at Krock |
| 09:33 |
* Krock |
meows at sfan5 |
| 09:38 |
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* Krock |
gives proller :madface: |
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| 10:13 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: you forgot some phrase with "much" in it |
| 10:13 |
sfan5 |
:o |
| 10:17 |
Matrixiumn |
hello |
| 10:17 |
Matrixiumn |
I'm wondering if PuTTY tunneling with minetest should "just work" |
| 10:17 |
Matrixiumn |
I'm trying to connect to a server over putty (using ssh tunneling) it doesn't work to work... |
| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
it gets stuck on |
| 10:18 |
sfan5 |
you can't tunnel UDP over HTTP proxies |
| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
"connecing to server" |
| 10:18 |
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| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
*blink* |
| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
oh. |
| 10:18 |
sfan5 |
you need some other tunnel that can transport UDP |
| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
awww |
| 10:18 |
Matrixiumn |
sfan5: Do you know of any? |
| 10:19 |
sfan5 |
http://www.qcnetwork.com/vince/doc/divers/udp_over_ssh_tunnel.html |
| 10:19 |
sfan5 |
that might work |
| 10:20 |
sfan5 |
Matrixiumn: better explanation maybe csuperuser.com/questions/53103/udp-traffic-through-ssh-tunnel/53109#53109 |
| 10:20 |
sfan5 |
csuperuser.com/questions/53103/udp-traffic-through-ssh-tunnel/53109#53109 * |
| 10:20 |
sfan5 |
.. |
| 10:21 |
sfan5 |
http://superuser.com/questions/53103/udp-traffic-through-ssh-tunnel/53109#53109 |
| 10:21 |
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| 10:21 |
sfan5 |
that ine |
| 10:21 |
sfan5 |
one* |
| 10:21 |
sfan5 |
Matrixiumn: or just create a VPN |
| 10:22 |
Matrixiumn |
sfan5: i'm using windows :S |
| 10:22 |
Matrixiumn |
(because school) |
| 10:22 |
sfan5 |
o, right |
| 10:22 |
sfan5 |
a patched minetest client would be the only option then |
| 10:23 |
Matrixiumn |
aw |
| 10:23 |
Matrixiumn |
hm, one sec |
| 10:39 |
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PenguinDad |
meow https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8254078976/h756CA980/ |
| 10:56 |
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* Jordach |
thanks that his system finally fucked up |
| 11:42 |
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| 11:51 |
Jordach |
kubuntu kubuntu:~$ sudo mount -t ntfs-3g -o remove_hiberfile /dev/sda2 /media/B8E5A3B8E55FFC -- The file system wasn't safely closed on Windows. Fixing. |
| 11:51 |
Jordach |
PHEW |
| 11:52 |
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| 11:53 |
VanessaE |
> Jordach |
| 11:53 |
VanessaE |
> using Linux |
| 11:53 |
VanessaE |
universe explodes |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
now all we gotta do is get kaeza over to Linux :) |
| 11:54 |
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| 12:09 |
sapier |
calinou what's the mapgen selector issue you've been taking about? |
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| 12:30 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: isn't kaeza already using linux? |
| 12:39 |
LazyJ |
My turn at VanessaE... I'm having trouble connecting to InchraNet. Is it still: 192.99.11.10/6667 ? |
| 12:53 |
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| 13:02 |
ecutruin |
So, anyone happen to know what kind of work is being done on the dev side of MT to allow more client-side effects? Such as advanced particle effects and dynamic blocks and such? Just curious if its on the list to do eventually here, that kind of thing? |
| 13:03 |
PenguinDad |
ecutruin: meshnodes are coming soon ©®™ |
| 13:04 |
ecutruin |
Well that doesn't help particles. xD |
| 13:04 |
PenguinDad |
ecutruin: what do you mean with advanced? |
| 13:05 |
ecutruin |
Such as an actual particle system, where you can control particles from point A to B.. and change those points around at runtime.. |
| 13:05 |
ecutruin |
Used for things like MC's fishing line, ThaumCraft's special effects, potion effects, etc. |
| 13:06 |
sfan5 |
ecutruin: the finishing line is just a 2d line drawn after rendering |
| 13:06 |
sfan5 |
at least in MC |
| 13:07 |
ecutruin |
Ah.. might be something else I'm thinking of.. or another line thing from a mod.. I just got off work and am a bit groggy.. but you get the idea. XD |
| 13:08 |
ecutruin |
I'm curious because I know Irrlicht has a particle engine, but it doesn't seem to be used by MT at all... and entity particles is pretty bad to use regularly. |
| 13:11 |
ecutruin |
Mostly though, I just am curious about less limitations. ^-^ I'm currently trying to decide whether I want to use MT for a game concept I have or just use another engine like Unity3D. |
| 13:11 |
VanessaE |
LazyJ: it is, yes. |
| 13:11 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: he uses windows, so I thought. |
| 13:13 |
VanessaE |
ecutruin: regarding particles, ask jin_xi |
| 13:13 |
VanessaE |
he's made some progress in getting minetest to use *proper* irrlicht particles, rather than client-side entities. |
| 13:13 |
ecutruin |
Ah. |
| 13:14 |
VanessaE |
this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WnmQYLJzlE |
| 13:14 |
ecutruin |
What about client-side custom rendering? |
| 13:14 |
VanessaE |
idk about that, but if it can be done in a shader, that's RealBadAngel's department |
| 13:14 |
VanessaE |
(extra, custom rendering that is) |
| 13:15 |
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| 13:16 |
ecutruin |
Well, I'm just wanting full control over a node.. aka.. I want to be able to say create a stick model and a stone model, and be able to place them in the same block as a node that has physics and everything like any other node.. or be able to say build with 1/8th blocks or somesuch. |
| 13:16 |
VanessaE |
oh, meta_set_nodedef. |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:17 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1118 |
| 13:17 |
VanessaE |
that would enable what you want, in addition to node meshes |
| 13:17 |
sapier |
ecutruin: that's most likely not gonna happen ever |
| 13:17 |
sapier |
nodes are our minimal map elements you'll never be able to place multiple ones at same coordinte |
| 13:18 |
sapier |
+a |
| 13:18 |
VanessaE |
sapier: but you can fake it with meta_set_nodedef or node meshes. |
| 13:18 |
VanessaE |
sapier: see for example how signs_lib fakes two nodes in one place: a sign on a fencepost. |
| 13:18 |
sapier |
I don't tell there might not be creative ways abusing features to make it look like |
| 13:18 |
VanessaE |
it's not perfect, but it looks good enough. |
| 13:18 |
ecutruin |
sapier, the same is true of minecraft and blocks, but yet.. if you've seen Redpower or Forge Multipart.. they can still do it. |
| 13:19 |
sapier |
I don't know those but I'd guess they're binary mods to minecraft? |
| 13:19 |
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| 13:20 |
ecutruin |
Seems like meta_set_nodedef would work with node meshes, but it seems setting nodes right now is VERY slow (up to 2 seconds? >.<) and I haven't seen word on node meshes lately. |
| 13:21 |
sapier |
depends on amount of mods you've got installed, but true setting nodes is a heavy operation |
| 13:21 |
ecutruin |
sapier, they are modes for MC that both add systems of having multiple 'blocks' in one block, by extending the block system to add additional sub features as such.. aka you could have two torches in the same block. |
| 13:21 |
ecutruin |
modes for MC - mods for MC. >.< |
| 13:22 |
sapier |
well having subnodes has been discussed multiple times with result of noone really being willing to spend the expected amount of work. |
| 13:23 |
sapier |
are you sure you need nodes and can't use entities? |
| 13:23 |
ecutruin |
Have you seen how well entities work on MT? -.- |
| 13:24 |
sapier |
have you written a bug report about any real issue? |
| 13:24 |
ecutruin |
And.. why would you want to use entities for something that you expect to be essentially a block? Aka.. it won't move on its own.. won't need to update until something interacts with it.. |
| 13:24 |
sapier |
sorry but I hear ppl complaining about entities in general but almost noone seems to have problems |
| 13:25 |
ecutruin |
Especially when you think of stuff like decoration.. such as 1/8 blocks being used to make a staircase. |
| 13:25 |
sapier |
that scenario is obviously not something for entities ... still don't expect anyone to implement subnodes anytime soon. But you're free to implement it |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
basic problem most likely is mapsize |
| 13:26 |
ecutruin |
I have issues with entities that are founded in actual experience. The main two are that they are not accurately predictable by the client, meaning if you do move them.. you will likely get a glitchy result on the client if there is any lag between the client and server.. and two.. the animation engine does not allow for non-looping animation. |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
lol |
| 13:26 |
sapier |
wash me but don't get me wet |
| 13:27 |
ecutruin |
eh? |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
sorry that's a inherent property non deterministic things are non deterministic by definition |
| 13:27 |
sapier |
you can't expect client to predict random events |
| 13:27 |
ecutruin |
Um.. they don't need to be random.. |
| 13:28 |
sapier |
if your mod decides to move something that is at least pseudorandom |
| 13:29 |
sapier |
and the non looping animation ... true ... why didn't you write s issue by now? |
| 13:29 |
ecutruin |
Aka.. you could have the server send something like "entity.move( toLocation, overTime )" and wala, now you can predict where the entity should be reasonably accurately, without as many issues. |
| 13:30 |
sapier |
core developers don't have /dev/glasssphere to know what you want without being told |
| 13:30 |
sapier |
true but wouln't actually fix your issue |
| 13:30 |
ecutruin |
I've done programming for over 20 years. I may not have extensive experience as most of my programming was hobby, but I know enough to understand you can write reasonably accurate entity systems. Most MMOs do it afterall.. and hell, MC doesn't generally have as many issues as MT seems to. |
| 13:31 |
sapier |
if you know how to do it you're free to join us and fix it ... we've got limited resources so some things keep unfixed because of noone having time to do it ;-) |
| 13:33 |
sapier |
and btw what's your moveto supposed to do? pathfinding? |
| 13:33 |
ecutruin |
sapier, I understand that.. but C++ is not a language I've worked with a ton (no real interest), so my ability to support is minimal. Hense, me asking if such things are being worked on. |
| 13:34 |
sapier |
ok no problem but still some of your suggestions aren't big changes if you'd write a feature request for them they might be implemented in reasonable time |
| 13:35 |
sapier |
just complaining about things being bad doesn't help anyone, you wont get your features any time sooner and noones mood s gonna improve ;-) |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:35 |
ecutruin |
sapier, it doesn't need to do actual pathfinding (though doing so could be good), but even simply just go directly towards the position over that time and apply physics to stop it if it hits something. |
| 13:35 |
sapier |
that's already done |
| 13:36 |
PenguinDad |
ecutruin: http://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20140715/acid_picdump_38.jpg |
| 13:36 |
ecutruin |
sapier, no its not from what I understand.. you can apply impulse to push something in a direciton, but that is not remotely the same. |
| 13:37 |
sapier |
it is |
| 13:38 |
ecutruin |
PenguinDad, wow.. just wow.. I ask if something is being worked on.. and I get attacked for complaining. I am not a child guys, I fully understand MT has limited developers with limited time. I wasn't asking to make it and make it now. I was asking if it was being worked on. |
| 13:38 |
sapier |
client calculates movement from velocity applied to a entity |
| 13:38 |
ecutruin |
sapier, no.. its not the same.. not even close. |
| 13:38 |
sapier |
ok so you want move to that position not move there |
| 13:39 |
ecutruin |
"Go in direction X forever" is not the same as "Go in direction X over Y period of time"... the second is very important for accurately stopping things on the client where you want them stopped. V's pipes are a great example of why this is needed. |
| 13:42 |
VanessaE |
s/pipes/tubes/ |
| 13:42 |
sapier |
ok you see there are various ways to implement something so write a feature request as precise as possible |
| 13:43 |
ecutruin |
VanessaE, didn't you tell me before, you've already requested such a feature? |
| 13:43 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 13:43 |
sapier |
I'm not sure if you really would get that happy with it as it sill may not reach that position, e.g. if the target isn't actially loaded |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
sapier: the point is to keep entities from *overshooting* |
| 13:44 |
sapier |
and no we won't forceload targets |
| 13:44 |
ecutruin |
sapier, that's fine.. because the client and server will both reach that situation.. or the server will send a new update of the entity and the client will adapt and use that instead. |
| 13:44 |
VanessaE |
no one cares if an entity never gets to a certain spot, but it looks like total ass if an entity goes past a corner and leaves a tube, visually, because the API has no way to prevent it |
| 13:44 |
sapier |
no they wont |
| 13:45 |
sapier |
because client and server block loading isn't in sync |
| 13:46 |
sapier |
but I have to leave now, please write your request as precise as possible. I beleive what you actually want is c++ mobs which wont happen that soon |
| 13:46 |
ecutruin |
sapier.. if the server says to send the entity to X/Y/Z.. it'll goto X/Y/Z.. the area doesn't need to be loaded for the entity to go there.. it'll just go that way and disappear when it runs out of distance as it logically would.. the server is what cares about the actual position. |
| 13:46 |
VanessaE |
sapier: nope.avi |
| 13:47 |
ecutruin |
VanessaE, I really don't think sapier gets it. >.< |
| 13:47 |
VanessaE |
what he wants is "entity.move(time=5, distance=10, vector={vec})" where time and distance are in seconds and meters |
| 13:47 |
ecutruin |
And since you've already requested such.. is it worth it for me to put another request in? |
| 13:47 |
sapier |
I don't deny this sounds interesting but prior implementation we need to check it for sideeffects, without a issue there's no location for this discussion |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
a simple API function to tell the CLIENT to move the entity over the course of TIME seconds, by DISTANCE nodes in the direction expressed by VECTOR. |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
well of course I'm oversimplifying that example call. |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
I didn't put in there the name of the entity for example |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
and the name of the call is just an example |
| 13:48 |
VanessaE |
but you get the point |
| 13:49 |
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| 13:49 |
VanessaE |
there needs to be a way to tell the CLIENT (not the damn server!) that an entity MUST ABSOLUTELY STOP HERE! and just where "HERE" is, in the form of a distance and vector, and how long it should take to get there. |
| 13:49 |
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| 13:50 |
VanessaE |
if the entity's movement timer expires and the server hasn't sent a new movement command of some kind, the entity stops cold, period. |
| 13:50 |
VanessaE |
end of story. |
| 13:50 |
VanessaE |
and it doesn't take a client-side mod to do that |
| 13:51 |
VanessaE |
all it needs is for the server to tell the fucking client "hey, you know that entity I told you to create earlier? move it by this vector and speed, and stop it after X seconds." |
| 13:51 |
VanessaE |
that's all |
| 13:51 |
VanessaE |
it doesn't have to be over-engineered. |
| 13:51 |
* ecutruin |
agrees. |
| 13:52 |
ecutruin |
Same with non-looping animation.. I was totally stupified as to why they don't exist. |
| 13:53 |
VanessaE |
brb |
| 13:53 |
ecutruin |
We added over 700 frames to the chest, VanessaE, but couldn't get it to totally stop from looping. |
| 13:53 |
ecutruin |
I dunno.. we'd probably need like 3k bloat frames to get it to work.. which seems very silly. |
| 13:54 |
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| 13:58 |
VanessaE |
you can't just set the amount of time per frame? |
| 14:00 |
VanessaE |
pretty sad if you can't - even animated gif images could do that :-/ |
| 14:01 |
Jordach |
woot |
| 14:02 |
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| 14:02 |
Jordach |
a clean reinstall of windows completed |
| 14:02 |
ecutruin |
VanessaE, not that I could see.. Jordach and I didn't have any luck with that anyways. |
| 14:02 |
Jordach |
VanessaE: yep |
| 14:02 |
VanessaE |
that sucks :-/ |
| 14:02 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, ik |
| 14:03 |
Jordach |
brb - must reboot for catalyst |
| 14:03 |
ecutruin |
So.. it always will loop.. unless you dump 3000 extra frames in to trick it.. but that bloats the file size.. |
| 14:03 |
ecutruin |
So.. |
| 14:03 |
VanessaE |
bloats it by how much? |
| 14:03 |
VanessaE |
(assuming you're not using a .x file) |
| 14:03 |
ecutruin |
I think 700 bloated it a bit. |
| 14:04 |
ecutruin |
No.. not a .x, that'd be crazy bloat. |
| 14:04 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 14:05 |
ecutruin |
But it event bloated the b3d by a few kb I believe.. and while that isn't much.. doing that for every animation we want to be non-looping and a probably needing double the frames we're using now to completely stop it.. is kinda crazy. |
| 14:05 |
VanessaE |
eh, a few kb ain't that bad |
| 14:05 |
VanessaE |
that's one well-designed texture file |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:06 |
VanessaE |
can't make the actual animation two frames with interpolation? |
| 14:06 |
VanessaE |
well, a few frames anyway? |
| 14:06 |
ecutruin |
VanessaE, that's what we did for keeping it open/shut.. but the server doesn't trigger the change in animation fast enough for it to not loop. |
| 14:06 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, interpol is handeled by the modeller |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:07 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: fek. |
| 14:09 |
* Jordach |
feels the system's speed again |
| 14:09 |
ecutruin |
Yeah, VanessaE, a few kb isn't a lot of bloat.. but imagine if we used say 50 different models, all with say 5 animations that need to be non-looping? |
| 14:10 |
VanessaE |
yeah. |
| 14:10 |
Jordach |
all of which are entities :3 |
| 14:10 |
Jordach |
hm |
| 14:10 |
ecutruin |
Nuff to say, there are issues. |
| 14:10 |
Jordach |
i wonder if i stick a sack of my chests into a 16^3 area, and then wonder if the engine removes them due to "suspiciously large amount of objects at {x,y,z}" |
| 14:11 |
ecutruin |
Try it. |
| 14:11 |
Jordach |
later |
| 14:11 |
Jordach |
just reinstalled most of my stuff |
| 14:11 |
ecutruin |
Hehe. |
| 14:11 |
VanessaE |
I wish I could figure out what's causing that huge numbers of entities issue on my Creative server :-/ |
| 14:12 |
VanessaE |
not sure if it's still a problem but it was sure out of control before :-/ |
| 14:12 |
* VanessaE |
checks logs... |
| 14:12 |
PenguinDad |
sighs_lib or pipeworks maybe |
| 14:13 |
PenguinDad |
s/sighs/signs/ |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:13 |
VanessaE |
nope, it ain't the signs, could be pipeworks but damned if I know |
| 14:18 |
Jordach |
don't signs use a single entity ? |
| 14:19 |
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| 14:23 |
Jordach |
ello kaeza |
| 14:23 |
kaeza |
mornings |
| 14:24 |
LazyJ |
kaeza! We where just talking about you. >:D |
| 14:25 |
LazyJ |
The GUI you added to Xban2 is a nice tool. |
| 14:25 |
* Jordach |
had managed to hit the windows 8 self destruct button without realising |
| 14:25 |
LazyJ |
Now for more complicated feature request. |
| 14:27 |
LazyJ |
Combining your wiki mod with Xban2 so admins can write notes about the players that were temp banned for other admins to read to better decide if the next banning should be permanent. |
| 14:28 |
kaeza |
interesting idea |
| 14:29 |
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| 14:29 |
LazyJ |
Xban2 GUI -> epicloudmouth -> results: temp ban... admin note: Was warned to stop using foul language. Second offence. |
| 14:30 |
kaeza |
well, for that case there's the `reason` field |
| 14:30 |
LazyJ |
The "reason" only shows up in the logs. |
| 14:31 |
LazyJ |
Our moderators and admins could really use the info while ingame. There are times when the chaos needs several quick decisions. |
| 14:32 |
Jordach |
pfft |
| 14:32 |
Jordach |
have to re-download some stuff |
| 14:32 |
LazyJ |
Between babysitting newbies, keeping an eye on a couple spats, and dealing with troublemakers... less time spent grepping in a terminal the better. |
| 14:32 |
Jordach |
hey LemonLake |
| 14:33 |
* Jordach |
was not happy about having to nuke his install again |
| 14:34 |
* LazyJ |
hands Jordach a sledgehammer. |
| 14:34 |
Matrixiumn |
ah dang |
| 14:35 |
nyuszika7h |
okay seriously who put an apk in a zip |
| 14:35 |
nyuszika7h |
who do I kill |
| 14:35 |
Matrixiumn |
how would I make cmake look for libs under /usr/lib*64* |
| 14:35 |
Matrixiumn |
dat nyuszika7h |
| 14:35 |
Matrixiumn |
not /usr/lib |
| 14:35 |
Jordach |
nyuszika7h, this isn't the empire channel, no rage here |
| 14:35 |
Matrixiumn |
Jordach: pls |
| 14:35 |
nyuszika7h |
pls |
| 14:35 |
nyuszika7h |
I'm not raging |
| 14:35 |
* Matrixiumn |
plses jordach |
| 14:36 |
* Jordach |
sighs https://cdn.mediacru.sh/BXnjjNWHs2x9.png |
| 14:36 |
Matrixiumn |
Jordach: ??? |
| 14:37 |
Jordach |
Matrixiumn, last night i managed to accidentially nuke the system |
| 14:37 |
Matrixiumn |
ouch |
| 14:37 |
Jordach |
(well, the shutdown went wrong) |
| 14:37 |
Matrixiumn |
how, may I ask? |
| 14:37 |
Matrixiumn |
oh |
| 14:39 |
LazyJ |
kaeza: "<klappspaten> Well, the reason shows up in the gui too, but I'd like to have a second entry which is not shown to the banned player" |
| 14:39 |
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| 14:39 |
Matrixiumn |
aha |
| 14:39 |
Matrixiumn |
set(libdir "/usr/lib64) |
| 14:39 |
Matrixiumn |
CMake <3 |
| 14:41 |
Jordach |
while dropbox re-syncs |
| 14:43 |
kaeza |
LazyJ, I'll come up with something later |
| 14:43 |
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| 14:43 |
LazyJ |
Thanks, kaeza ;) |
| 14:44 |
kaeza |
P.S: wiki mod is not popular because the textbox crashes the client sometimes; bug in cguittfont or something |
| 14:44 |
kaeza |
even though LuaCs/MCs also use it ;_; |
| 14:44 |
Jordach |
P.P.S: never had a crash with the wiki mod locally, only the chatbox ever made me crash |
| 14:45 |
kaeza |
Jordach, try clicking outside of the text and drag |
| 14:45 |
Jordach |
kaeza, i mean the hit enter to crash in a text submit box |
| 14:46 |
kaeza |
I mean the textarea[] element |
| 14:46 |
Jordach |
ae |
| 14:46 |
Jordach |
aye |
| 14:48 |
kaeza |
in other news, some Mr. Ahmed Hassan, a banker, has 11 million for me \o/ |
| 14:48 |
Jordach |
lel |
| 14:49 |
Jordach |
there, system reconstructed to Pre OS failure |
| 14:49 |
Jordach |
in less than 2 hours :P |
| 14:49 |
Jordach |
kaeza, https://cdn.mediacru.sh/PpT3q8xe8W32.png (NSFW) |
| 14:50 |
kaeza |
lul |
| 14:51 |
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| 14:51 |
Jordach |
for once ever my dropbox is upto date |
| 14:53 |
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| 15:11 |
Exio4 |
hihi~ |
| 15:13 |
blaise |
herro |
| 15:13 |
blaise |
hey so like.. |
| 15:13 |
blaise |
what's up with all the crazy lag from mobf ? |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:21 |
* PenguinDad |
feels like raging about fancy graphics |
| 15:34 |
FreeFull |
Jordach: Clearly your penïs is too Åmall |
| 15:35 |
FreeFull |
kaeza: 11 million what? Or the number itself? |
| 15:40 |
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| 15:41 |
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| 15:57 |
Eater4 |
VanessaE? |
| 15:59 |
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| 16:02 |
sapier |
vanessaE to me what you suggest already sounds overengenered especially as it conflicts to our current way of doing things |
| 16:04 |
* ecutruin |
facepalms. |
| 16:05 |
ecutruin |
sapier, I'm curious...how long have you programmed? |
| 16:05 |
sapier |
long enough to know adding a entirely different movement mechanisms causes strange effects on mixing up those different ways |
| 16:05 |
ecutruin |
I specifically asked how long. |
| 16:06 |
hmmmm |
400 years |
| 16:06 |
hmmmm |
what does it matter? |
| 16:06 |
sapier |
I know ppl programming for 40 years not capable of doing simple things and ppl programming 5 beeing way more experienced so what's relevance |
| 16:06 |
ecutruin |
Because he's wrong.. and his line of thinking makes me believe its due to a lack of experience. |
| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
lol |
| 16:07 |
ecutruin |
or she's wrong, I guess.. I'm not sure. |
| 16:07 |
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| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
ecuturin, whose line of thinking? |
| 16:07 |
sapier |
e.g. if you add that moveto in x seconds ... what how is it supposed to behave if someone sets an acceleration prior those x seconds have elapsed? |
| 16:07 |
ecutruin |
sapier's. |
| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
erhm |
| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
sapier knows what he's talking about |
| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin, I'm questioning your competence now |
| 16:07 |
hmmmm |
you seem like an idiot |
| 16:07 |
ecutruin |
sapier.. it'd either override or add.. either works really and either sitll allows for predictability. |
| 16:08 |
ecutruin |
still* |
| 16:08 |
sapier |
I don't say there's no way of implementing it, it's just not something to do without thinking ... we have various examples of incomplete things the one implementing never dared to complete once it's been added |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, I spent three years in college for computer programming with a 4.0 GPA. I also have been working with computers and programming as a hobby for over 20 years. So no, I'm pretty sure I have a decent idea what I'm talking about. I specialize as my hobby in system design concepts themselves. |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
hi |
| 16:09 |
ecutruin |
Heyo Calinou. |
| 16:09 |
sapier |
how is acceleration supposed to add to a position? sorry that doesn't make sense, the first thing I'd think about would be send a position update AND the acceleration in same command ... |
| 16:09 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: I'm pretty sure you're an incomptent fool though, because you appeal to your grades in college rather than point out why something that sapier is saying is supposedly wrong |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
oh, server-side movement fanatic again |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:10 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: I didn't know you for all but 5 seconds, but you lost my respect totally at this point |
| 16:10 |
Jordach |
hmmmm, he's the guy who works with almost all MC modders |
| 16:10 |
Jordach |
*don't* piss him off |
| 16:10 |
ecutruin |
sapier, it could easily increase/decrease the speed at which the object moves towards the position.. However, a better option would indeed be to just have the second movement effect overrule the first. |
| 16:10 |
sapier |
please calm down hmmmm |
| 16:10 |
hmmmm |
sorry. I have a low tolerance for BS lately |
| 16:11 |
Jordach |
hmmmm, don't we all? |
| 16:11 |
Calinou |
about how server-side movement is done in most games: controls are sent, server simulates movement, client predicts movement and has error correction |
| 16:11 |
sapier |
acceleration is a 3d value ecutruin so it depends on what you set if that entitiy will reach the position at all |
| 16:11 |
Calinou |
the quality of the prediction can vary from “very goodâ€Â to “total crap†|
| 16:12 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: So if you're so smart and great with programming and sapier is "wrong", why don't you put your money where your mouth is and code it? |
| 16:13 |
sapier |
a possible option having less sideeffects could be adding some sort of "reset time" e.g. "appy acceleration/velocity for X seconds" |
| 16:13 |
ecutruin |
sapier, if it reaches the position or not doesn't actually matter.. what matters is that you can predict what will happen with a reasonable amount of certainty.. if you send something towards a position and then try to push it in the opposite direction, you know the time will run out before it reaches its goal.. and the client will achieve the estimated result you were looking for either way. |
| 16:14 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, cause I don't want to take the time to re-learn C++? I haven't used C++ since college, and even then it was taught mostly only in data structures class. |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:14 |
ecutruin |
Generally we used C# or Java in college. |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:15 |
UukGoblin |
hi :-) |
| 16:15 |
UukGoblin |
where can I get OpenAL32.dll from? The game doesn't start without it on Windows :-/ |
| 16:15 |
ecutruin |
I've also not really done much development in the past 4 years or so beyond toying with things, mostly focusing on art now days. |
| 16:16 |
sapier |
I was talking about VanessaE's suggestion to use a position based mechanism and if it's position based how is it supposed to not matter if it reaches that position ... you can't move something towards a position within x seconds and accelerate it (x,y,z) same time ... that's like moving to north and south same time |
| 16:16 |
Calinou |
<ecutruin> Generally we used C# or Java in college. |
| 16:16 |
* Calinou |
gives ecutruin a shield |
| 16:16 |
ecutruin |
So there would be a re-learning period to just sit down to seriously code. Which, doing so to fix this issue doesn't seem to be the best use of my time right now. Not that MT isn't a really interesting project and community, just that I have quite limited time lately. |
| 16:17 |
hmmmm |
sapier: perhaps VanessaE is looking for you to calculate the needed acceleration in order to complete the move in that period of time |
| 16:17 |
sapier |
not counting special cases where x,y,z and position is identical |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
UukGoblin, are you using a 32 bit or 64 bit build? |
| 16:18 |
ecutruin |
Calinou, its honestly true. At least in this area (and elsewhere as well), Java, C#, Python, etc.. tend to be use more prominently than C++/C/ASM. |
| 16:18 |
sapier |
well for what I know vanessaE her suggestion was from high altitude view position |
| 16:18 |
sapier |
that sounds negative ... isn't meant that way |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: you sound like somebody who took a couple of college courses on programming and you think you're instantly qualified to do anything at all |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
what did you do then, hmmmm? |
| 16:18 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: you know nothing. you are incompetent. |
| 16:19 |
sapier |
something I think about that would (hopfully) not cause major sideefects would be adding a parameter to setvelocity and setacceleration telling server for how long this is to be applied |
| 16:19 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 16:19 |
hmmmm |
should I be reading the backlog on this? |
| 16:19 |
ecutruin |
sapier, position was my suggestion actually. VanessaE's suggestion was actually an improvement on my own (but both would work). She suggested to move the entity a distance, over a set amount of time, at a set vector.. which would work much better then a straight position. |
| 16:20 |
sapier |
short story ecutruin claimed enties are broken I suggeste he should write issues for what is broken and one of the features he suggested is "moveto" |
| 16:20 |
hmmmm |
that's a feature addition, not a bugfix |
| 16:21 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, how much have you actually studied programming / game design, curiously? |
| 16:21 |
sapier |
github issues are both |
| 16:21 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: I probably did more development in the past month than you have in your entire lifetime |
| 16:21 |
UukGoblin |
Calinou, 64bit. Found an openal installer at openal.org. |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
“coming (back) soon.†→ the site has been like that since ~1 year at least |
| 16:22 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: bottom line is: shut up and start coding. |
| 16:22 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, and honestly.. it is both a bug fix and a feature addition.. because the way things work now, there is no means in which to acturately move entities so that they are predicted on the client with any kind of accuracy, and that is a bug. |
| 16:22 |
UukGoblin |
Calinou, yeaeh ;-) |
| 16:22 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, you're really hostile. |
| 16:22 |
sapier |
guy competing about "who has biggest dick" wont get us any more near to a good solution ;-) |
| 16:22 |
sapier |
guys |
| 16:24 |
hmmmm |
movement isn't typically calculated on the server and merely predicted on the client side, it's performed on the client side completely and updated positions are reported to the server |
| 16:24 |
sapier |
ecutruin: how many hours have passed since I requested you to write an issue? ... you may not wanna learn c++ but not writing the issues tells more like you're not interested to improve minetest but only wanna make trouble |
| 16:24 |
hmmmm |
but alas this is sensitive to latency |
| 16:24 |
ecutruin |
sapier, I'm not trying to compete.. more just get a grasp of hmmmm's knowledge as he's coming off very hostile over what seems to be nothing but me explaining things. Generally that is only done when someone doesn't actually understand the situation. |
| 16:24 |
ecutruin |
In contrast (as an example), despite me outright saying you were incorrect, sapier, you did not get hostile at all, and instead tried to ask questions to clearify what I meant. |
| 16:25 |
ecutruin |
sapier, VanessaE already wrote an issue on this exact thing.. and nothing was done. |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: by explaining things you mean telling us about how sapier is wrong and an idiot, not making an issue, and then telling us about your 4.0 GPA in school |
| 16:25 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: perhaps you should have linked to the bugtracker issue in question |
| 16:25 |
sapier |
vanessae wrote an issue about animation looping? |
| 16:26 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, read back, I don't believe I ever said sapier is an idiot. If anyone would be, it would be yourself for jumping to conclusions and attacking me. I said sapier was wrong, and I stand by that. |
| 16:26 |
hmmmm |
I think this is a difficult problem any way you look at it |
| 16:26 |
sapier |
usually I leave a discussion once ppl start using words like that |
| 16:26 |
hmmmm |
a combination between position reporting and the current system would work best, IMO |
| 16:27 |
sapier |
what do you mean with "position reporting" hmmmm? |
| 16:27 |
ecutruin |
sapier, no. I will have to write an issue on that myself or see if Jordach wishes to as he has the actual test of it on his server test. VanessaE wrote an issue (or so she told me) on the entity movement. |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
the velocity/acceleration commands would be broadcasted to other players in the vincinity for interpolation, but the absolute position should be sent by the client in regular intervals for the server to make periodic corrections |
| 16:27 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, ecutruin, maybe both of you should calm down a bit? |
| 16:27 |
hmmmm |
that way you have accuracy and smoothness |
| 16:28 |
ecutruin |
PilzAdam, I'm quite calm, honestly. |
| 16:28 |
* VanessaE |
wanders back in |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: please stop being hostile, really |
| 16:28 |
hmmmm |
look at what you've done vanessa |
| 16:28 |
hmmmm |
dammit |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
what I've done/ |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
lol |
| 16:29 |
hmmmm |
did you make an issue on this before? |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
ok, we need to backtrack here a little |
| 16:30 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, as I mentioned a "move over time" command is what is needed to do accurate prediction.. the client needs to have an idea how long it needs to move. How that is implemented could be done in various ways. If you want it to be addative with acceleration, you could do that.. or you could have acceleration commands subvert it and override it completely. Either option you choose is acceptable though, as both will yield predictable resu |
| 16:30 |
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| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
I don't remember if I made a github issue for this or not, but what ecutruin is trying to say, which you and sapier are failing to grasp, is you have GOT to do something about what lag looks like from the CLIENT side. TO HELL with the server. OK? That means telling the client "hey, you know that entity I told you to create? move it X meters in {vector} direction, and do it in Y seconds. Whether I get back to you before that |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
timer elapses, stop moving the entity after Y seconds." |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
how often is TOCLIENT_MOVEMENT sent?? |
| 16:31 |
sapier |
best match I find is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1072 but that's not exactly this issue too |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: server step, I believe, which is useless if the server lags or the network has some interruption. |
| 16:31 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: that bit of logic can be implemented in Lua, it's a simple math calculation |
| 16:32 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: it cannot be implemented in Lua. |
| 16:32 |
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| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
I mean the acceleration vectors necessary to complete the move in a deterministic amount of time |
| 16:32 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: there is no way for the client to stop the entity from moving once it has been set in motion. |
| 16:32 |
hmmmm |
right and that's a problem |
| 16:32 |
ecutruin |
Which is solved by what me and VanessaE are talking about. |
| 16:33 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: and that's why I am trying to say that the server needs to be able to tell the client ahead of time that "this entity ABSOLUTELY MUST STOP after Y seconds... etc etc etc as above" |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
idea: if an entity is stopped, interpolate its position smoothly |
| 16:33 |
sapier |
if you have a apply for x seconds setvelocity or setacceleration translation from moveto(pos) to this call can be done in lua |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
so I don't get it |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
to compensate |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
do you want a certain amount of acceleration, or do you want something to be completed in a certain amount of time |
| 16:33 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: pipeworks items flow right out the sides of a tube corner because of lag. |
| 16:33 |
hmmmm |
to get both you're going to need to periodically correct the client |
| 16:34 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, you don't need to correct the client until the end, actually. |
| 16:34 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: and this CANNOT be fixed by the server. it can only be fixed by the client either predicting, or being told ahead of time to stop moving entities when they reach either a certain location, or a certain distance from a starting point. |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
you don't NEED to, but I don't want the item to magically appear someplace else |
| 16:34 |
ecutruin |
The client (assuming there isn't a bug in the programming) should have no problem predicting where the entity is moving. |
| 16:34 |
hmmmm |
it'd be better if a correction were periodically sent so the movement on the client is not horrendously off |
| 16:35 |
kaeza |
sapier, the (original) idea was to set a "target point" somewhere, and the speed at which the entity should move between the current position and the "target", with both client and server "stopping" the entity once it's close enough to the point |
| 16:35 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, no.. it wouldn't be better. That would involve a ton of latency being used to keep entities updated. That's the whole problem we have currently... |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: which is worse? having entities constantly flowing off into never-never-land and then snapping back, repeatedly? or having items stop moving from time to time, followed by a quick movement from there to where the server says they should be? |
| 16:35 |
hmmmm |
it doesn't need to stop moving |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: it MUST stop moving |
| 16:35 |
* ecutruin |
facepaws. |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: otherwise it'll jus keep on going right off into another mapblock |
| 16:35 |
hmmmm |
why |
| 16:36 |
sapier |
kaeza: I know but implementing this in core is absolutely incompatible to what we do now, resulting in a lot of half states not being one and not the other one too |
| 16:36 |
VanessaE |
just* |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
yeah, so? the mapblock it's in doesn't matter until you're saving the entities |
| 16:36 |
ecutruin |
VanessaE, I'm done. I cannot explain this to hmmmm in a way they will understand with my current level of tiredness. G'luck. |
| 16:36 |
sapier |
so if we can achieve same goal with a compatible mechanism why not use that one |
| 16:36 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: it's not about where it goes, it's about where it shouldn't have LEFT FROM |
| 16:36 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: instead of telling us how stupid we are and facepalming, why don't you be productive and just discuss it with us. this is why I'm hostile, because of the attitude |
| 16:37 |
kaeza |
sapier, why is it "incompatible"? can't the entity just ignore velocity/acceleration while it has a "target"? |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: really, you have to play on a server that experiences some routine, average lag and see what that lag does to things like these moving entities. |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: please, for once just trust me - there is no other way to deal with this kind of problem. this kind of task cannot be predicted client-side. |
| 16:37 |
kaeza |
(separate vel/acc) |
| 16:37 |
hmmmm |
no I agree |
| 16:37 |
hmmmm |
this is why the server would need to correct the course |
| 16:37 |
sapier |
kaeza: what happens if someone sets a new velocity or acceleration while positioned movement isn't complete? |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
so let me get this straight: |
| 16:38 |
sapier |
how to apply gravity? |
| 16:38 |
ecutruin |
sapier, to continue with what you were worried about.. applying a velocity towards a vector that would cause it to stop after X seconds would be fine as long as it was accurate. If another velocity supercedes that, its predictable still.. so it should not cause issues with the current design, just require a new command. |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
you don't know the actual server position of the item at the point in time |
| 16:38 |
kaeza |
hmm |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
and then you adjust the acceleration/velocity |
| 16:38 |
blaise |
so like |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
so then it continues from an unknown starting position to what you thought was the destination |
| 16:38 |
hmmmm |
is this right so far? |
| 16:39 |
blaise |
is there an installer for windows versions of minetest 0.4.10 yet ? |
| 16:39 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: in practice, you're not going to just randomly change an entity from being accel/velo-based to being position-target based are you? |
| 16:39 |
sapier |
blaise: none I know about |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
no no no |
| 16:39 |
blaise |
I'm trying to get the 64 bit version working under windows 7 and it's telling me I don't have openal32.dll |
| 16:39 |
hmmmm |
believe me, I'm not |
| 16:39 |
blaise |
:\ |
| 16:39 |
kaeza |
blaise, I made an InnoSetup script long ago (based off xyz's win32 builds); it should be fairly easy to adapt it for new versions |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
I'm just saying that it might be worthwhile to set the position on the client side explicitly before applying updated acceleration |
| 16:40 |
kaeza |
it was for 0.4.4 IIRC |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
that's how I would do it anyway |
| 16:40 |
sapier |
blaise: I suggest trying the 32 bit version there's usually no need for 64 bit on windows |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: at that point, I guess the behavior is either undefined, or the coder has to guess at it based on what the math says the entity should do |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
right, and I'll agree that more features could be implemented to improve accuracy |
| 16:40 |
sapier |
blaise: unless you wanna use VanessaE's 256+ hires texturepack |
| 16:40 |
hmmmm |
but I'm not going to say that it's "broken" |
| 16:40 |
blaise |
the msvc version was the one complaining about openal32.dll |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: oh, no of course. that's the whole point - you already HAVE a position set at some point before applying a vector-time-velo command |
| 16:41 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, the client would be sent the current position at the time the initial move command is sent, the vector to aim for, a distance to aim for, and a time it should move before stopping. The server would run the same calculations as the client would.. meaning the client would predict what the server is doing.. but not receive constant updates. If another velocity command is used, it'll be sent to the client and affect the calculations.. |
| 16:41 |
blaise |
the mingw version works out of the box... |
| 16:41 |
blaise |
just fwi |
| 16:41 |
kaeza |
blaise, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4245 |
| 16:41 |
blaise |
s/w/y/ |
| 16:41 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: officially, such a command should never be used without having set a position at some point immediately prior (or at a predictable, defined time anyway) |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
right |
| 16:42 |
blaise |
kaeza: yeah, I read that.. |
| 16:42 |
kaeza |
eh wait, there's no DL link there |
| 16:42 |
sapier |
ecutruin: once that command is set the old command there's no way to continue the moveto command |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
and you say that tere's no way to stop an object? |
| 16:42 |
hmmmm |
there* |
| 16:42 |
kaeza |
blaise, it's here: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/5397343 |
| 16:42 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: so in the case of pipeworks, for example, position would be reset once a second or so (whatever the flow speed is, I forget the exact figure), and velo-vector-time commands would be sent right after |
| 16:43 |
ecutruin |
If I was to design such a command, I'll probably send an updated position once the server finishes its timeout.. so that if some kind of lag did happen on either end, a correction would happen.. but at the very least.. you would only have jumping and not awkward gliding off into oblivion.. a much more predictable result. |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: there is not. if you set an entity in motion and then the server lags, the client will just keep on moving that entity until doomsday. |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: Yeah, that's pretty logical, that's how I would expect things to work but apparently they do not currently |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: Yeah but you're qualifying that with "if it lags" |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: and if you're attached to that moving entity, you will move with it. see, for example, carts taking you right off the tracks. |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: ok, change "if" to "when". |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
"when it lags" |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
ideally you'd be able to stop it by setting acceleration vectors to 0 |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
and it WILL lag. |
| 16:43 |
hmmmm |
sure, I agree |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
so my idea was to set the position, set the acceleration |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
then every so often the server would update where it expected the position to be |
| 16:44 |
sapier |
I absolutely disagree to use a position as this is a completely different mechanism to what we use now |
| 16:44 |
ecutruin |
sapier, you could easily have new moveto commands send the server's position of said entity and have it override the timer with a new movement. |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
butt |
| 16:44 |
sapier |
while time based limitation is basicaly suggested by our dtime mechanism |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
you said that initial thing isn't the problem |
| 16:44 |
hmmmm |
so we misunderstood what was being said |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 16:45 |
sapier |
ecutruin: I do think about compatibility too |
| 16:45 |
ecutruin |
It would be perfectly compatible with that's there now.. |
| 16:45 |
hmmmm |
see I thought what you guys were saying was that somehow there's an inaccuracy between the path the server calculated and the client calculated |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:45 |
hmmmm |
if it's just the stopping point, then sure, an explicit set position to the final destination would be the correct solutio |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
when I say "a movement vector" I guess that's your "accel". same difference. to me, accel explicitly means to speed up or slow down, and excludes movement at a constant speed. |
| 16:45 |
ecutruin |
Nothing current would be broken by implementing a new command to do this (unless they broke it by accident or somesuch). |
| 16:46 |
hmmmm |
solution |
| 16:46 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: yes, but there's a problem with that solution: |
| 16:46 |
hmmmm |
well, acceleration means to speed up, slow down, or change direction |
| 16:46 |
hmmmm |
if you're going in a circle at a constant speed you're still accelerating |
| 16:46 |
sapier |
ecutruin: everything is broken as old clients can't interpret that command at all so entities would stay at old pos or just jumo around |
| 16:46 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: the target position may not be predictable due to math errors. what if the entity is moving at such a vector that the math just never works out and it misses the target location entirely? |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
then that's a problem with the calculations |
| 16:47 |
ecutruin |
sapier, people would need to update their client. You know, that kind of happens with advancements in an engine. |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
here's what I'm thinking: |
| 16:47 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: including float accuracy? |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
you have your point A explicitly set |
| 16:47 |
VanessaE |
go on. |
| 16:47 |
hmmmm |
you have your point B explicitly set after a certain amount of time |
| 16:47 |
sapier |
I'm known to not be a friend of forcing updates if there's a reasonable way to do it without |
| 16:48 |
VanessaE |
ok wait |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
the acceleration that's being set in the same packet as point A is just an animation to fill in the movement in between the time |
| 16:48 |
VanessaE |
you're proposing an explicit "move from point A to point B in X seconds" mechanism? |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
(i know that's not the way it currently works but it should) |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 16:48 |
VanessaE |
ok, go on. |
| 16:48 |
hmmmm |
that should be an option though |
| 16:49 |
VanessaE |
ok, so just "point A to point B at speed Z" |
| 16:49 |
VanessaE |
er accel Z. anyway |
| 16:49 |
hmmmm |
and then, the server tick when the object should have reached the point it sends out the correction |
| 16:49 |
hmmmm |
was the original idea^ |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
suggestion: "object:setacceleration({x=0.1,y=-9.81,z=0.1}, 5) or object:setvelocity({x=1,y=-9.81,z=1}, 5)" .. last parameter being time the value is valid |
| 16:49 |
sapier |
after that time passed it's reset to 0,0,0 |
| 16:49 |
ecutruin |
sapier, I haven't looked into the MT source, but assuming a version value is sent to servers by the client, you could optionally have the new command just send a acceleration towards the vector as you would do now.. and kill it as you do now.. old clients would still have the visual issues, but new ones would get the prediction command instead and accurately handle the movement. |
| 16:50 |
hmmmm |
I do not have a problem with a moveto command, but the thing is, the acceleration would still need to be a sane estimate because it'd only be there for the ANIMATION purposes |
| 16:50 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, incorrect. It should be there for physics purposes, animation purposes, interaction purposes, etc. |
| 16:50 |
hmmmm |
but the acceleration itself and the movement in between the two points within that time would not be a predictor of where it goes |
| 16:50 |
sapier |
animation isn't linked to movement |
| 16:51 |
sapier |
I had a pull request once but it never was merged |
| 16:51 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: incorrect? oh, so you want to add in a new layer of complexity? |
| 16:51 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: like I said, talk is cheap, show me the code |
| 16:51 |
ecutruin |
Essentially, what we want is move in a direction over # seconds.. actually move. |
| 16:51 |
ecutruin |
Not just animate your way there.. actually move there. |
| 16:52 |
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| 16:52 |
hmmmm |
what you could do is have an initial acceleration vector and then a constant acceleration rate that's applied over the course of the object's movement lifetime |
| 16:53 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, that's what I've been saying. |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
given the period of time you'd like for it to move over, you could then calculate the initial acceleration and the constant acceleration to be applied |
| 16:53 |
ecutruin |
Identical to what I've been saying actually. |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
there's no way to do the moveto without some sort of acceleration pattern |
| 16:53 |
* ecutruin |
sighs. |
| 16:53 |
Eater4 |
VanessaE: you have a mention on InchraNet |
| 16:53 |
sapier |
unless you don't wanna use acceleration at all |
| 16:53 |
hmmmm |
well they'd specify initial acceleration and initial velocity |
| 16:54 |
sapier |
if you use acceleration how is it supposed to behave? accelerate for x seconds then keep velocity then accelerate to stop? |
| 16:54 |
VanessaE |
Eater4: ok. |
| 16:54 |
hmmmm |
oh whoops |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
hmmmm |
I meant to say initial velocity |
| 16:54 |
hmmmm |
you'd have an initial velocity and a constant acceleration |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
so if you were firing a cannon |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
you'd have an initial velocity vector and the constant gravity acceleration vector |
| 16:55 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, not needed. If you specify "vector", "distance" and "time" you have essentially said I want object "A" to move to point "B" over "X" seconds. Barring any outside forces, client and server could seperately run that simulation and come to the same result. |
| 16:55 |
hmmmm |
you apply the constant gravity until the velocity is <= 0 as expected |
| 16:56 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: I don't see why the server should calculate that |
| 16:56 |
hmmmm |
that's a Lua thing |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
but I don't wanna have gravity applied to birds or fish ;-) |
| 16:56 |
hmmmm |
sapier, then set their constant acceleration vector to 0 |
| 16:56 |
hmmmm |
does this all make sense or am I just being a goober? |
| 16:56 |
sapier |
so we hardcode as of position is set only y acceleration is applied? |
| 16:57 |
hmmmm |
no hardcoding necessary |
| 16:57 |
blaise |
EH |
| 16:57 |
hmmmm |
the movement packet just has the initial position, initial velocity, and constant acceleration |
| 16:57 |
blaise |
all the ground textures are red |
| 16:57 |
blaise |
it's, kinda like hell... |
| 16:57 |
hmmmm |
the lua portion would take in the "amount of time" and calculate the acceleration needed |
| 16:57 |
blaise |
lmao |
| 16:57 |
sapier |
yes that's what we have right now |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
that's what we have?? |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
then why do you need anything else |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
wait no the amount of time is missing that's what I suggested |
| 16:58 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, why would you calculate anything via LUA? |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
the amount of time isn't needed |
| 16:58 |
kaeza |
blaise, disable shaders, or use OpenGL |
| 16:58 |
ecutruin |
You need TIME!... |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: well this can make sense and you can still be a goober at the same time - it wouldn't be the first time that's happened ;) |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
you can calculate those three vectors given an amount of time |
| 16:58 |
* ecutruin |
sighs and just shakes his head.. |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
it's a high school physics problem |
| 16:58 |
hmmmm |
you can calculate it too |
| 16:58 |
VanessaE |
blaise: turn off shaders. |
| 16:58 |
sapier |
engine needs time but api can provide the position |
| 16:59 |
hmmmm |
ecutruin: like I was saying, stop making all sorts of moaning and groaning sounds and be constructive |
| 16:59 |
blaise |
that's awesome |
| 16:59 |
Calinou |
there's interpolation code in content_cao.cpp |
| 16:59 |
Calinou |
SmoothTranslator |
| 16:59 |
hmmmm |
was not aware. let me take a look |
| 16:59 |
blaise |
lmao |
| 17:00 |
sapier |
yes moveto doesn't "jump" but really moves |
| 17:00 |
Calinou |
it's used for smoothing player movement (not yaw changes, sadly) |
| 17:00 |
hmmmm |
what I'm talking about already exists in minetest... |
| 17:00 |
hmmmm |
WTF then, are people just not applying the api correctly? |
| 17:01 |
Eater4 |
Does anyone know how to program in python? |
| 17:01 |
sapier |
you can't specify a "time" in moveto hmmmm |
| 17:01 |
ecutruin |
I have been.. but you refuse to listen to anything I've said.. and keep blabbing on yourself (you even mentioned my own suggestion at one point). What we need is "move towards a specific vector over a set amount of time", specifically this. Anything else you go on about doesn't further this discussion either.. because THIS IS WHAT WE NEED. |
| 17:01 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: there is no way to specify a stop time or a destination location at all. period. |
| 17:01 |
VanessaE |
you simply can't do it. |
| 17:02 |
Jordach |
or even define a point to pause or stop a entities animation frame |
| 17:02 |
hmmmm |
VanessaE: given point A and point B, initial velocity and constant acceleration, I am able to calculate the time needed |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: yes. |
| 17:02 |
blaise |
11:53:01: ACTION[ServerThread]: Ahmed2006 right-clicks object 4: LuaEntitySAO at (83,1.5,152) |
| 17:02 |
hmmmm |
also given the time needed I can calculate either initial velocity needed or constant acceleration needed |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: but we have no point B in the API. it doesn't allow it. |
| 17:02 |
ecutruin |
You're saying we want to calculate time in LUA.. no.. that's the problem we have currently. LUA cannot be the calculator because LUA doesn't exist on the client.. and the client needs to do the movement seperately of the server. |
| 17:02 |
blaise |
dude crashed my server with that |
| 17:02 |
blaise |
lmao |
| 17:02 |
hmmmm |
okay then, we add the point B. |
| 17:02 |
hmmmm |
I don't want to make a computer algebra system here, this is minetest, not wolfram alpha |
| 17:03 |
hmmmm |
we just add the point B and then the Lua API will have the computations needed |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: fair enough - just trying to clarify your point about whether we've been misusing the API :) |
| 17:03 |
hmmmm |
err |
| 17:03 |
hmmmm |
I mean the Lua facing API |
| 17:03 |
hmmmm |
in the builtin |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
yes. |
| 17:03 |
VanessaE |
and as it lacks any way to specify "point B", we aren't misusing it. |
| 17:03 |
Jordach |
hmmmm, i think i've abused the API with my chests |
| 17:03 |
hmmmm |
OK, sorry about that then |
| 17:04 |
hmmmm |
I take it the "point A" in SmooothTranslator is init()? |
| 17:04 |
hmmmm |
also whoever coded that apparently doesn't understand what a constructor is |
| 17:04 |
ecutruin |
hmmmm, again.. by suggesting a point B.. you're suggesting what I suggested. >.< ... yet you called me an idiot. |
| 17:06 |
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| 17:06 |
ecutruin |
Perhaps you can understand why I am a bit frustrated when I specifically stated a move from point A to B over X time.. and now you're saying that's what we need. I tried to suggestion an alternative (that being VanessaE's concept of using a vector and just firing it off with the promise that it'll stop at a specific time, which would give the same effect), and I was still assaulted and told I know nothing. |
| 17:06 |
ecutruin |
Yet, you've now suggested both of my options. |
| 17:14 |
ecutruin |
Anyways, I'm going to consider my part in this discussion done, as we're obviously going in circles. Thanks VanessaE for the specific vector suggestion though. I do like that concept better then a direct position to position move. Anyways.. back to other things for now. |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
Meanwhile, I think I should try to stick to just mods, and not do a lot of discussion of features in the engine. |
| 17:15 |
* ecutruin |
snickers. |
| 17:15 |
* Calinou |
mars. |
| 17:16 |
hmmmm |
I'm not saying that's what we need |
| 17:16 |
hmmmm |
I'm saying that's what we could do |
| 17:16 |
hmmmm |
(but we'd have to have any two of the desired acceleration vector, desired initial velocity, or desired time) |
| 17:17 |
hmmmm |
so, okay. TOCLIENT_MOVEMENT could use a bit of change |
| 17:20 |
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| 17:20 |
cerulean256 |
so I believe I found a bug in technice |
| 17:20 |
cerulean256 |
technic* quarry |
| 17:21 |
Jordach |
/join #minetest-technic |
| 17:21 |
Jordach |
^ cerulean256 |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
cerulean256: --> #minetest-technic |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
ninja'd |
| 17:21 |
Jordach |
tl;dr ^ |
| 17:21 |
cerulean256 |
thnx |
| 17:21 |
PenguinDad |
and there's still no issue about it |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
pff |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
so apparently I am supposed to fly to atlanta, GA on the 20th |
| 17:26 |
hmmmm |
I just learn this now all of a sudden |
| 17:27 |
Calinou |
try not to insult everyone |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:27 |
fling |
Hello. |
| 17:27 |
fling |
I see fancy clouds in menus but only grey screen in the game |
| 17:28 |
hmmmm |
Calinou: I sensed aggressiveness first |
| 17:28 |
Calinou |
fling, screenshot? |
| 17:31 |
Eater4 |
must be talking about the servers |
| 17:31 |
fling |
Calinou: http://mirror.dno.so/incoming/screenshots/minetest/ |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:32 |
Eater4 |
You are missing a game it looks like.....what minetest versoin are you using fling |
| 17:32 |
Calinou |
something is likely wrong with paths to games and textures |
| 17:32 |
fling |
Eater4: 0.4.10 as seen on the screenshot |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:33 |
Calinou |
oh, you only have the minimal game |
| 17:33 |
Calinou |
fling, clone this git repository in the “games†directory of your Minetest installation: http://github.com/minetest/minetest_game |
| 17:33 |
Calinou |
git clone http://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git |
| 17:33 |
Calinou |
git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git |
| 17:34 |
fling |
http://bpaste.net/show/465797/ |
| 17:34 |
Calinou |
quit the game, restart it, select the Minetest game (click the Minetest logo near the minimal game logo), start a new world |
| 17:35 |
Calinou |
and you're good to do |
| 17:35 |
diemartin |
"survival" game? O_o |
| 17:35 |
Calinou |
sounds like an invalid game id |
| 17:35 |
fling |
Calinou: I'm now trying this -> emerge -1 games-action/minetest_build games-action/minetest_common games-action/minetest_game |
| 17:35 |
kaeza |
or ye olde survival subgame from the `common` era |
| 17:35 |
PenguinDad |
The good old common mods :D |
| 17:35 |
Calinou |
oh, you probably shouldn't |
| 17:36 |
Calinou |
fling, that stuff is horribly outdated :P I'd suggest cloning Minetest Git and compiling it |
| 17:36 |
fling |
Calinou: I can write an ebuild |
| 17:36 |
fling |
if you will help me to decide what goes to which package |
| 17:36 |
fling |
and what depends on what :P |
| 17:37 |
fling |
Calinou: so all the gentoo users will be able to just 'emerge' things |
| 17:37 |
Calinou |
I don't use Gentoo |
| 17:37 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 17:37 |
Calinou |
but a generic Minetest installation is expected to be composed with the Minetest engine <https://github.com/minetest/minetest> and the Minetest game <https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game> |
| 17:37 |
VanessaE |
imho, the main engine from http://github.com/minetest/minetest is minetest_core, and the main game is minetest_game |
| 17:38 |
fling |
Calinou: so only two packages and no survival and others? |
| 17:38 |
VanessaE |
but that's just me. |
| 17:38 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 17:38 |
Calinou |
survival, build, common are old and no longer used since 2013 |
| 17:38 |
kaeza |
don't do like Debian; keep the repos up-to-date ;_; |
| 17:39 |
fling |
and minetest_game depends on minetest |
| 17:39 |
fling |
kaeza: I did not knew about minetest until today! |
| 17:39 |
kaeza |
heh :P |
| 17:39 |
kaeza |
welcome |
| 17:40 |
Calinou |
kaeza, there are outdated copies of my mods in Debian :P |
| 17:40 |
Calinou |
eg. minetest-mod-moreblocks |
| 17:40 |
Calinou |
from September 2013 |
| 17:41 |
VanessaE |
mine too, I'm sure |
| 17:42 |
VanessaE |
(as I recall, homedecor and pipeworks, at least; I don't maintain those packages either) |
| 17:49 |
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| 17:49 |
Calinou |
it's frequent for games in Debian to package silly and outdated things |
| 17:51 |
kaeza |
s/games/software/ |
| 17:52 |
Jordach |
Calinou, locusts :P |
| 17:52 |
Calinou |
yeah |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
Debian has tons of packages that should just be unified probably |
| 17:53 |
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| 17:53 |
VanessaE |
I should tell the guys who maintain those packages of mine, rip them out, replace them with Dreambuilder ;) |
| 17:54 |
VanessaE |
of course that thing is always being updated, too so it'll go out of date within one or two days of release anyway |
| 17:56 |
* sfan5 |
meows at Calinou |
| 17:58 |
Sokomine |
depend on git and just provide an update-script? :-) |
| 17:59 |
Calinou |
Debian is obviously against that |
| 18:01 |
Sokomine |
oh |
| 18:01 |
Sokomine |
for mods? hm |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
fling, did you fix your issues with the game? |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
Sokomine, for anything in general |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
they don't want updaters |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
or even update notificaitons |
| 18:02 |
Calinou |
Debian-“censoredâ€Â versions of software are fairly frequent |
| 18:07 |
Sokomine |
hmm. for most things, i'm quite satisfied with debian. perhaps for games it's just good enough to show people that those games exist and tell them to get the latest version on the webpage |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:16 |
thefamilygrog66 |
What's the command for starting a new server using leveldb (instead of sqlite)? |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
edit world.mt |
| 18:17 |
sfan5 |
set backend to leveldb |
| 18:18 |
thefamilygrog66 |
But world.mt isn't created until after the world is, no? |
| 18:18 |
thefamilygrog66 |
So I need to create a world (using sqlite) and then convert it to leveldb? |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
thefamilygrog66: you can do it like that too |
| 18:22 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Okay, I'm a bit confused then. How can I edit world.mt if the world itself hasn't been created yet? |
| 18:22 |
Calinou |
generate a world first |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
using --world world |
| 18:32 |
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| 18:32 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Thanks Calinou & sfan5 |
| 18:33 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Can I delete the rollback.sqlite file as well, or do I need that for rollback? |
| 18:34 |
Calinou |
well, you obviously need it for rollback |
| 18:34 |
Calinou |
but since you've done nothing on the world, you can safely delete it |
| 18:35 |
Calinou |
rollback never works for me, so I keep it off |
| 18:47 |
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| 19:01 |
LemonLake |
hello, Jordach |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:05 |
Taoki |
Hey. Slightly off-topic question, but: Does Github allow you to make a repository for posting documentation, art, etc? Or must every reposirory be a program / script / etc? Couldn't find the info on their site so |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:10 |
domtron |
Taoki They support repositories that act as a static website which is basicly documentation, art, ect. Other then that I'm not sure. |
| 19:10 |
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| 19:11 |
domtron |
I have a repo where I only use the wiki with no actual content in the repository. |
| 19:11 |
Taoki |
nice. Yeah in regard to rules and such... wasn't sure |
| 19:11 |
Taoki |
but that does sound like it |
| 19:11 |
Taoki |
So you can basically host web pages on them too? |
| 19:12 |
Taoki |
Might be helpful actually since I plan to make HTML5 games |
| 19:12 |
blaise |
what's the recipe for a torch again?! |
| 19:12 |
blaise |
coal and two sticks, in the center position? |
| 19:13 |
Exio |
C |
| 19:13 |
Exio |
S |
| 19:13 |
Exio |
afaik |
| 19:13 |
blaise |
ah, yes |
| 19:13 |
domtron |
you can make a repo which acts like a static webpage for your user or a branch in a repository that acts like a webpage for that project. |
| 19:13 |
domtron |
Taoki: chech out Github's pages documentation for how it works. |
| 19:14 |
domtron |
Taoki: here is a link https://pages.github.com/ |
| 19:21 |
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| 19:22 |
Taoki |
thanks |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:27 |
ezraanderson |
sapier, still no luck getting my build to run on correctly on android (grey screen when entering singleplayer/or server) |
| 19:27 |
ezraanderson |
should I do forum post or open a git issue |
| 19:27 |
sapier |
very strange, can you post your exact environment on gist? os, ndk sdk version |
| 19:28 |
sapier |
don't know what a issue would help as our official build works ;-) |
| 19:29 |
sapier |
but you still can open it of course attach debug.txt console log via adb, os sdk ndk device technical and software data |
| 19:29 |
ezraanderson |
sure can, is it okay to start a forum post, and post my everything there? |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:34 |
UukGoblin |
wiki.minetest.net/Bucket incorrectly states to use right mouse button to fill buckets - it works with left mouse button for me |
| 19:34 |
UukGoblin |
also, I need to be positioned in a funny way - i.e. I can't fill a bucket when I'm in water |
| 19:34 |
UukGoblin |
seems that I need to be standing next to it or sth |
| 19:52 |
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| 20:19 |
ezraanderson |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5073 <-- just read this |
| 20:19 |
ezraanderson |
Add "debug_log_level = 4" to minetest.conf |
| 20:19 |
ezraanderson |
will this give me more information? |
| 20:23 |
sapier |
maybe |
| 20:24 |
ezraanderson |
I dont' see minetest.conf only minetest.conf.example |
| 20:25 |
ezraanderson |
was I suppose to make a minetest.conf for android is this my problem? |
| 20:26 |
sfan5 |
before anybody complains about the server list: <Fusl> Maintenances will be held in a few minutes (please expect the service to go down at any time from NOW ON) and will also take some minutes until i reconfigure the router. Thanks for your patience and your understanding! |
| 20:28 |
Exio |
sfan5, serverlist doesnt work !!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!1!!!! |
| 20:33 |
PenguinDad |
*hysteric voice* Where's the server list!? |
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* Jordach |
meows at sfan5 |
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* Jordach |
purrs at LemonLake |
| 21:01 |
ezraanderson |
sapier: can you please look at this post -> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9765 |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
what toolchain version? |
| 21:02 |
ezraanderson |
I have also compared logcat & debug.txt from my build vs offical build, and I don't see any diferences |
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| 21:02 |
sapier |
do you have a black or gray screen? |
| 21:03 |
ezraanderson |
irt loks grey to me? |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
--system=linux-x86_64 wait ... android toolchain is 32bit only, if you don't have 32bit support libs installed it won't work |
| 21:04 |
ezraanderson |
"what toolchain version" do you mean make-standalone-toolchain.sh, version? |
| 21:05 |
ezraanderson |
well it compiles, wouldn't it throw errors if this was the problem? |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
megaf did already try to compile on 64 bit only os for what I remember he didn't succeed too |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
quite likely but there could be undetected issues too |
| 21:06 |
ezraanderson |
i think all my libs are intalled anyways, because I compile other android stuff with the same tool chain |
| 21:06 |
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* LemonLake |
meows at Jordach |
| 21:07 |
Jordach |
:3 |
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| 21:08 |
sapier |
do you have other stuff using support libs too? |
| 21:08 |
ezraanderson |
meaning? |
| 21:08 |
ezraanderson |
curl? |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
for example yes |
| 21:09 |
ezraanderson |
I do, but the minetest makefile seems to download everything into its own deb |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
what did you change in client.cpp I don't see a difference? |
| 21:09 |
ezraanderson |
and moai, uses its own version too, not the systems |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
of course systems is wrong because system isn't arm ;-) |
| 21:10 |
ezraanderson |
I didn't change anything, I was just browsing source code, so "HACK" client delay |
| 21:10 |
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| 21:11 |
sapier |
well that's a delay while progress bar is still shown you can forget about it |
| 21:11 |
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| 21:11 |
sapier |
hmm sorry misread the 32 bit thingy ... you have a native 32 bit os? |
| 21:12 |
ezraanderson |
correct. native 32bit |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
hmm that is a difference |
| 21:12 |
PenguinDad |
!seen EvergreenTree |
| 21:12 |
MinetestBot |
PenguinDad: evergreentree was last seen at 2014-07-12 00:46:43 UTC on #minetest |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
try changing to --system=linux-i686 |
| 21:14 |
ezraanderson |
sorry, you mean the makefile --> --system=linux-x86_64; --> is wrong -> I thought system is just point to a dir, inside the ndk folder |
| 21:14 |
ezraanderson |
oh |
| 21:14 |
ezraanderson |
I will try that |
| 21:14 |
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| 21:15 |
sapier |
I'd expect it to fail on wrong api but I've seen more strange things to compile for unknown reason |
| 21:15 |
hoodedice |
sfan5: MT is acting weird, I'm gonna go ahead and test stuff across both builds. My laptop is unfortunately acting up too for some unknown reason |
| 21:34 |
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| 21:35 |
UukGoblin |
how deep until I can find Mese? :-) |
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| 21:38 |
hoodedice |
I think it is -250 |
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| 21:38 |
UukGoblin |
oh |
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| 21:39 |
UukGoblin |
I have 190 more to go then, thanks |
| 21:39 |
EvergreenTree |
I forget, in git, how do I fix this branch from being 8 commits behind master? https://github.com/4Evergreen4/minetest/tree/screen_size_setting |
| 21:40 |
EvergreenTree |
I tried the stuff in dev.minetest.net/Git |
| 21:40 |
EvergreenTree |
doesn't work for updating the fork |
| 21:40 |
hoodedice |
you need to update branch to match master? |
| 21:40 |
UukGoblin |
EvergreenTree, something like git checkout screen_size_setting; git reset --hard HEAD^^^^^^^^; git push |
| 21:40 |
UukGoblin |
but |
| 21:40 |
UukGoblin |
other people who might have this branch might not like it |
| 21:40 |
UukGoblin |
oh... FROM being |
| 21:40 |
EvergreenTree |
No one else has that branch, I just created it |
| 21:41 |
UukGoblin |
if you want to get the latest master into it, just merge them |
| 21:41 |
UukGoblin |
git checkout screen_size_setting; git merge master |
| 21:41 |
EvergreenTree |
doh |
| 21:41 |
hoodedice |
UukGoblin: Mese clusters start from -65, become more common after -250 |
| 21:41 |
EvergreenTree |
Thanks |
| 21:41 |
EvergreenTree |
:p |
| 21:41 |
hoodedice |
If you go as deep as -1024, you might get a MESE block |
| 21:41 |
kaeza |
s/merge/rebase/ ? |
| 21:41 |
hoodedice |
http://wiki.minetest.net/Mese_Ore |
| 21:42 |
hoodedice |
rebase, I think |
| 21:42 |
UukGoblin |
it all depends on the way you guys manage branches, and I don't know how you do it :-) yes, rebase could work too |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
the devs seem to like linear history |
| 21:43 |
UukGoblin |
to do a rebase, i.e. to move your branch on top of new master, checkout your branch, then do git rebase --onto master <point_at_which_your_branch_started> <your_branch_name> |
| 21:43 |
kaeza |
don't ever mention "merge" in front of c55 <_< |
| 21:43 |
UukGoblin |
kaeza, ookay :-) |
| 21:45 |
UukGoblin |
does Minecraft have the same funny fluid dynamics, where one bucket can flood an entire cave? |
| 21:45 |
kaeza |
kinda |
| 21:46 |
kaeza |
except their liquid flowing code is a bit "smarter" |
| 21:46 |
kaeza |
in that liquid only flows toward lower elevation |
| 21:46 |
hoodedice |
wut? |
| 21:46 |
hoodedice |
MT's lquid goes to higher elevation? |
| 21:46 |
hoodedice |
TIL |
| 21:46 |
kaeza |
hoodedice, key word is "only" |
| 21:46 |
hoodedice |
uh |
| 21:47 |
hoodedice |
got it |
| 21:47 |
kaeza |
MT fluids spread in all directions; MC ones only spread toward lower elev |
| 21:47 |
UukGoblin |
ah |
| 21:47 |
kaeza |
(unless they can't find lower elevation nearby, in which case they just flow like MT ones) |
| 21:47 |
UukGoblin |
so can't quite flood an entire cave unless you spilled the bucket 1 level higher |
| 21:47 |
UukGoblin |
oh. :-) |
| 21:47 |
hoodedice |
No UukGoblin |
| 21:48 |
hoodedice |
To flood an entire cave, you need to flood level 1 with enough water source blocks |
| 21:48 |
hoodedice |
Then flood level 2, then level 3 and so on, where a level is a block hieght |
| 21:48 |
hoodedice |
s/hieght/height |
| 21:49 |
PenguinDad |
hoodedice: flooding caves with water blocks is easy |
| 21:49 |
UukGoblin |
hmm |
| 21:50 |
UukGoblin |
well, not quite flood, but I managed to extinguish quite a lot of lava with one bucketfull of water |
| 21:50 |
ezraanderson |
sapier, console complained with "system=i686" and recommend useing "system=x86", so I am trying x86 now |
| 21:50 |
UukGoblin |
also, I could easily replenish that bucket with the same water I used originally :-D |
| 21:50 |
UukGoblin |
it's fun either way ;-D |
| 21:51 |
UukGoblin |
I didn't quite get how it works though, I hope I won't get flooded on my -70 excavation |
| 21:51 |
UukGoblin |
there's a waterfall flowing into the cave in one place, but it doesn't seem to be able to ever fill it with water (which is kinda counterintuitive until you learn about water sources) |
| 21:52 |
Exio |
add mese rocks, mese crystal spawns (rarely) on the ground! |
| 21:52 |
sapier |
does anyone know a working .X import filter for blender? |
| 21:52 |
Exio |
<- pro idea! :P |
| 21:53 |
kaeza |
hoodedice, UukGoblin, https://cdn.mediacru.sh/d6WxD_vr5-Ui.png |
| 21:54 |
UukGoblin |
bucket-sourced stream :-) |
| 21:54 |
hoodedice |
sapier, I have this FreeOBJ something converter in Windows |
| 21:56 |
hoodedice |
sapier: http://freex2obj.software.informer.com/ |
| 21:57 |
hoodedice |
Sorry, use this: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=192234&b=1 |
| 21:58 |
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| 21:59 |
UukGoblin |
uh-oh, gravel falls like sand |
| 22:00 |
hoodedice |
brb |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:01 |
UukGoblin |
YELLOW STUFF! |
| 22:02 |
UukGoblin |
YEEEES |
| 22:02 |
* UukGoblin |
jumps around merrily |
| 22:03 |
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sapier |
hoodedice thanks but I'd need somethin supporting animation too |
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| 22:13 |
ezraanderson |
sapier, no joy, same grey screen :( |
| 22:15 |
sapier |
very strange ... did you try on a different device? |
| 22:15 |
ezraanderson |
3 devices |
| 22:15 |
sapier |
can you upload your build? |
| 22:15 |
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| 22:15 |
ezraanderson |
could you post ur dev, setup? |
| 22:15 |
ezraanderson |
yes I can |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
"ur" ? |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE |
kill... KILL.... |
| 22:17 |
sapier |
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b9c8e3b36d3f2d6d8ad5 |
| 22:19 |
ezraanderson |
thanks |
| 22:21 |
sapier |
well I don't think it's gonna help very much |
| 22:24 |
ezraanderson |
well if I get board, I might setup your dev-env, see if I can reproduce or succed with buildig minetest |
| 22:25 |
ezraanderson |
I need to take a break from my projects, so I thought I would check out minetest |
| 22:25 |
ezraanderson |
now I have tunnel vision trying to get it to work :) |
| 22:26 |
Exio |
VanessaE, kill? that isn't enough |
| 22:26 |
ezraanderson |
I tried get it to build for android about a year ago with no success, I was hoping it was going to be a fun thing to tinker with |
| 22:27 |
ezraanderson |
now I am just frustrated :) because I want it to work for me !!! |
| 22:27 |
VanessaE |
Exio: burn with acid first? |
| 22:27 |
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| 22:28 |
Exio |
i'd say, make him drink some acid and then start slowly pouring acid over his body |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
ouch. |
| 22:30 |
ShadowNinja |
Google seems to like GET too much... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7800644/ |
| 22:31 |
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| 22:38 |
UukGoblin |
what are thos 4 things in the top-left corner (not the mesecons) here? http://mesecons.net/luacontroller/ |
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| 22:41 |
VanessaE |
silicon |
| 22:42 |
UukGoblin |
ah, there! thanks |
| 22:43 |
kaeza |
silly cone |
| 22:43 |
LemonLake |
UukGoblin: a back arrow |
| 22:46 |
UukGoblin |
LemonLake, ah, lol ;-) |
| 22:46 |
UukGoblin |
just noticed it ;-) |
| 22:47 |
UukGoblin |
oh damn... my items disappear! |
| 22:48 |
UukGoblin |
guess I need a chest or something |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
LemonLake: weren't you working on some extension to pipeworks? |
| 22:56 |
LemonLake |
VanessaE: not exactly |
| 22:56 |
LemonLake |
but i dropped that project for now |
| 22:56 |
VanessaE |
aw |
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UukGoblin |
so I created the Luacontroller, played around with some basic code (which worked), then returned to the menu and went back to my world. My PC crashed (some windows bug I think, sometimes triggered by Minetest, but not only), and after a reboot, minetest won't load my world again: http://pastebin.com/jf06cdYV |
| 23:48 |
UukGoblin |
some lua errors, but doesn't seem to be coming from my luacontroller at all |
| 23:53 |
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| 23:53 |
VanessaE |
actually, I think that IS from lua controllers, after a fashion |
| 23:53 |
yaman |
hello everyone |
| 23:53 |
yaman |
I have an idea for a mod |
| 23:53 |
VanessaE |
I believe they use forceloading but I'm not entirely sure they use it right |
| 23:54 |
yaman |
not very complex but what it does is when you dig cobblestone you get gravel |
| 23:54 |
yaman |
bai now |
| 23:55 |
UukGoblin |
oh. |
| 23:55 |
UukGoblin |
VanessaE, any ideas on how I can fix my world? perhaps remove just the controller? or change its code? |
| 23:56 |
UukGoblin |
it'd be a blob somewhere in map.sqlite I'm guessing... |
| 23:56 |
UukGoblin |
unfortunately I don't remember what coordinates I placed the controller on :-/ |
| 23:57 |
VanessaE |
delete the lua controller mod from mesecons for now |
| 23:57 |
VanessaE |
then start your world and you should be where you were when you were last |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
(mesecons is a modpack, so you can simply delete the mesecons_luacontroller folder, or however it's named) |
| 23:58 |
UukGoblin |
hm, good idea |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
go find the unknown node that points to the lua controller, right click to get its code if you still can, copy it, paste it to a pastebin, and dig the node. |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
(yes, undefined nodes sometimes still retain their metadata) |
| 23:58 |
VanessaE |
then re-install mesecons |
| 23:58 |
UukGoblin |
however it still fails to run :-/ |
| 23:58 |
UukGoblin |
one sec |
| 23:59 |
VanessaE |
ok, then that wasn't enough. |
| 23:59 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 23:59 |
UukGoblin |
a different error this time I think |
| 23:59 |
UukGoblin |
ah, it's just a: The following mods could not be found: "mesecons_luacontroller" |
| 23:59 |
UukGoblin |
oh and then some, one sec |
