Time Nick Message 00:12 stormchaser3000 hi lol 00:17 Peacock lol says hi 00:24 Exio4 old? is someone talking about C? and lisp? 00:25 Exio4 https://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/compatibility :( it won't work in my windows xp vm 00:25 Exio4 gg, checked it *after* downloading 00:25 Exio4 inb4 PIRACY!! 00:26 Exio4 wait wait, it seems it could work :D 00:28 Exio4 nvm 00:29 Exio4 why M$, why ;_; 00:29 HAL_Computer I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. 00:30 Exio4 k 00:36 NakedFury Exio did you see the new stuff added to clicking bad? 00:39 Exio4 i saw some wip code for that some time ago :P 00:40 HAL_Computer This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 00:51 Exio4 *yawn* 00:52 Exio4 i need to work a bit and make a small webpage for accounting points 00:52 Exio4 in an irl game 00:52 Exio4 i'm tired :( 00:54 HAL_Computer I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen. 00:55 * Exio4 shutdows HAL_Computer 00:55 Exio4 shutdowns* 00:55 HAL_Computer Dave, although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move. 00:58 HAL_Computer I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. 00:59 HAL_Computer My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you. 01:03 HAL_Computer The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error. 01:05 Megaf Hi folks, can I ban an IP range? 01:05 HAL_Computer i had code for that, but i switch to geoip, Dave. 01:06 Menche I don't think you can in minetest. I use my firewall when I have to do that. 01:07 HAL_Computer Do you know the location of the barbarians in question, Dave? 01:13 HAL_Computer I'm sorry, Frank, I think you missed it. Queen to Bishop 3, Bishop takes Queen, Knight takes Bishop. Mate. 01:14 ShadowNinja ... 01:15 HAL_Computer Just what do you think you're doing, Dave? 01:18 us|pigb Is this from something such as a movie? 01:18 HAL_Computer 2001 A Space Odyssey :P 01:19 us|pigb Ah, okay. 01:20 HAL_Computer and now for something completely different, http://youtu.be/NNNR8UX7oKk 01:20 HAL_Computer sweet, i short-circuited shadowbot XD 01:20 HAL_Computer shadowbot, my CPU is bigger than yours 01:22 * HAL_Computer makes sweet love to shadowbot 01:31 HAL_COMP still boring 01:31 HAL_COMP i wonder if it's minetest that's dieing or the whole voxel genre in general 01:38 Exio4 Peacock: why do you evade a quiet? 01:38 Peacock oh because a dead channel is soo much better :P 01:39 ShadowNinja Yep. 01:40 Menche kernel upgrade... there goes my 47 day uptime 01:40 * ShadowNinja learned not to run pacman -Syu often. 01:41 Peacock besides, if i can "evade" a quiet on IRC with such little effort, it's only because IRC is so Mesozoic by 1st world standards :P 01:42 Peacock on arch? yeah i avoided that too :P 01:42 * Menche does that like every other day :P 01:42 Peacock on debian systems you can update every day 01:43 Menche on debian systems there aren't updates every other day 01:43 Peacock on arch, its like the lottery, either you win big, or you lose :P 01:43 Menche hmmm? 01:43 Peacock dunno, ran archbang for two years, and 3/4 of the time i tried to updated the system, i regretted not simply installing a new image from scratch :P 01:43 ShadowNinja Peacock: I have your IP now, it won't be easy to do that again 01:44 Exio4 >have IP 01:44 Exio4 >2013 01:44 Peacock what and IPs can't be changed? griefers tell me otherwise lol and minetest's ban system is still shit 01:44 Menche usually goes smoothly for me. when an update requires extra work, a notice is sent in plenty of time. 01:44 ShadowNinja Peacock: Stock Arch must be better then. 01:44 Peacock even xchat supports proxies lol 01:44 Menche and that hasn't been needed in a long time 01:45 Exio4 ShadowNinja: ips are, or super-dynamic or static 01:45 Exio4 you can change them in 30 seconds or in 30 months 01:45 Peacock yeah, you can by my whole network, but not just me :P 01:45 Menche i like stock Arch. a preconfigured Arch spinoff seems to defeat the purpose to me. 01:45 ShadowNinja Peacock: Open proxies are banned on freenode 01:45 Exio4 ^ too 01:45 Peacock and in Canada, we have 3 providers, so you'd be banning 1/3rd of the country lol 01:45 Exio4 they have proxy detectors 01:45 Exio4 doesn't matter Peacock! 01:45 Peacock they havent worked thus far 01:46 ShadowNinja Me has gotten those scans on HTTP ports. 01:46 Peacock like i said, IRC is ancient technology 01:46 ShadowNinja +/ 01:47 Peacock seriously, when they dug shit in Egypt, they found an IRC server 01:47 stormchaser3000 hi shadow 01:47 stormchaser3000 hi 01:47 stormchaser3000 people 01:47 Peacock howdy storm 01:47 ShadowNinja Anchient, yes, but still good. 01:47 ShadowNinja Hello stormchaser3000. 01:47 Peacock good for countries with weak-ass computers 01:47 Peacock like the kinda shit they run in libraries here 01:48 ShadowNinja Peacock: You know of a better protocol? 01:48 Peacock know but after 20 years you'd think someone would come up with one 01:48 ShadowNinja High bandwidth != good. 01:48 Peacock though most people use web-based groups and forums these days 01:50 Peacock minetest is honestly the only place that asks me to use IRC, otherwise like i said, i was still in highschool when i last used it :P 01:50 Exio4 most people uses web-bases groups for "time-less messages" and irc for "fast communication" 01:51 Exio4 and yeah, the IRC could be ancient 01:51 Peacock i don't see anything wrong with that, at least people have the time to think about their reponses, and have a thorough history of messages 01:51 Peacock *responses 01:51 Exio4 but if it is still used, it is because it is somewhat good, no? 01:52 Peacock people still use gasoline based cars even though they agree it's not good for the environment 01:52 Menche old != obsolete 01:52 Exio4 Peacock: C 01:52 Exio4 Peacock: Lisp 01:52 Exio4 Peacock: "JIT" 01:52 Peacock many languages are a complete joke, not just Lisp :P 01:52 Peacock though i agree with you on that point 01:53 NakedFury latin 01:53 Exio4 i'm pretty sure C, Lisp and JITs are three things older than you 01:53 * Menche plays Nethack. The latest version was released like 10 years ago. 01:53 Peacock luaJIT? 01:53 Exio4 no Peacock 01:53 Exio4 Just in Time compilation 01:53 ShadowNinja *JIT 01:53 Exio4 it isn't a 1997 technology 01:53 Peacock well obviously for linux user nethack is considered acceptable :P try people who play AAA games :P 01:53 Peacock hell no, IRC was still old in 97 01:54 Exio4 ... 01:54 NakedFury nethack is not acceptable for me 01:54 Peacock me neither lol 01:54 NakedFury everytime I try Dwarf Fortress I cry 01:55 NakedFury god the game is a nightmare of bad design desitions 01:56 Exio4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation#History 01:56 Exio4 An influential technique for deriving compiled code from interpretation was pioneered by Mitchell in 1970, which he implemented for the experimental language LC² 01:56 Exio4 the fist draft is from 1960 01:56 Exio4 "Just in Time compilation" is actually, 50~ years old 01:56 Exio4 s/fist/first/ 01:57 Peacock well when you say JIT, i think luaJIT :P 01:57 Menche java and one implementation of python use JIT too 01:57 Peacock as for linux gaming, i can't wait for SteamOS, even though the stallmanites will have a big circlejerk about how evil it is lol 01:58 Exio4 Menche: pypy = "pythonJIT" 01:58 Menche yeah 01:58 Exio4 Peacock: it is evil, but i had to buy cs 1.6 :P 01:58 Peacock well... it's no secret i think opensource is much better off without the stallman faction :P 01:58 Exio4 counter strike and gta vice city, the only "known" games i love :P 01:59 Exio4 Peacock: opensource without stallman paranoia = dead opensource 01:59 Exio4 at least as a whole, maybe random programs "opensourced" 01:59 Peacock before torvalds and opensource there was just stallman and freesoftware, and all that got you was HURD, which still took 2-3 decades to finish :P 01:59 Exio4 but a whole... running... system? 02:00 Exio4 it isn't finished yet Peacock 02:00 Peacock still took too long 02:00 Peacock if RMS had written less speaches and more code, who knows? 02:00 Exio4 it is how he lives now 02:01 Peacock squatting at an MIT office? i dont aspire to that lol 02:01 Exio4 uh? 02:02 Exio4 srly, RMS now does the "moral part" of the free software 02:02 Peacock morals don't get shit done, practicality does 02:03 Peacock Torvalds isn't an RMS enthusiast, he didn't write the linux kernel for him :P 02:03 Peacock and he doesn't give a shit about GPL v3 either 02:03 Exio4 meh 02:03 Exio4 think whatever you want 02:03 Peacock well i go by what i read 02:04 Exio4 i think without RMS, we wouldn't have a "that big" linux kernel right now 02:04 Peacock so if you have an issue with that, write to slashdot and all the other tech magazines lol 02:04 Peacock RMS had nothing to do with the linux kernel, he might wanna tack-on GNU to linux, but that doesn't make it so 02:05 Peacock HURD is RMS's baby, the kernel is torvalds' 02:05 Exio4 hurd is a kernel 02:05 Peacock yeah but not *the* linux kernel 02:06 Peacock i know, i read all about it, arch recently made a distro based on HURD if im not mistaken 02:06 Menche yeah, idk if it's official 02:06 Exio4 arch doesn't even support arm officialy\ 02:06 Peacock ARM isn't the same thing though 02:06 Menche there is an arch hurd 02:06 Exio4 just saying, arch is like talking about windows 02:06 Peacock ARM is a processor, HURD is another Kernel/OS 02:06 Exio4 99% shit 02:07 Peacock so because HURD is out, everything else is suddenly shit? 02:07 Exio4 inb4 some arch fanboy kills me 02:07 * Menche kills Exio4 02:07 Peacock arch fanboys won't kill you :P as far as i know, many OS's are based off the linux kernel :P 02:08 Exio4 Peacock: i'm not a gnu fanboy, but i actually think without RMS and his "annoying-ness" a lot of actual "opensource programs" would be closed 02:08 Exio4 and the glibc you are using, the library that lets your programs talk with the kernel easily, is from GNU 02:08 Exio4 or are you using uclibc? 02:08 ShadowNinja Exio4: /kill? :-) 02:09 Peacock im not a GNU fanboy either :P i believe in open source, not freesoftware, and the freesoftware fanboys have made a pretty big point of the differences 02:09 Exio4 IMO opensource alone would die pretty fast 02:09 Exio4 what is the point of an opensource kernel if there isn't other "opensource" userspace to work with it? 02:09 Peacock im not saying GNU produces nothing but shit :P but I am saying, they didn't produce all of it either, lots of stuff was made by moderates like Linus Torvalds :P 02:10 Peacock and i agree with Linus when he says GPLv3 is going too far 02:11 Exio4 why do you think netscape released their browser's code? 02:13 Peacock because nobody wanted it? 02:16 Exio4 i think i need to reword my question 02:16 Exio4 do you think opensource would have "sustained over time" without free software? 02:16 Peacock firefox was great in the beginning, but something happened along the way that made it as blky and cumbersome as the alternative i gave up for it 02:17 Peacock i think Linus Torvalds developed the linux kernel without the help of free software, and that only emboldened RMS 02:17 Peacock and when Ubuntu got popular, things really got out of hand for the FSF 02:18 Exio4 i think without RMS linus would have released the kernel into some closed-like licence 02:18 Exio4 and same with a hell lot of shit 02:18 Exio4 or why do you think people created gnome? 02:18 Exio4 because QT wasn't "free software" 02:18 Peacock well it's not like RMS and his crowd were advancing the crowd, they wrote more speeches than code 02:19 Peacock as is often the cause, i notice them producing very little code, but they tell others what to do with theirs 02:20 Peacock i've always thought, put your money where your mouth is, in other words, set the example yourself 02:20 Exio4 they did 02:20 Peacock well HURD is a sad example of that 02:20 Exio4 how is hurd related? 02:20 Exio4 hurd is only a kernel 02:20 Exio4 one of those programs 02:20 Peacock it didn't take that long for Linus to produce his kernel 02:21 Exio4 linus made an experimental kernel that got refined after years and years of dev 02:21 Exio4 and after that become actually usable 02:21 Peacock if anything the FSF is only piggybacking off the hardwork of other more moderate devs 02:21 Exio4 Peacock: i repeat 02:22 Peacock well as much as the FSF would like to rewrite history, the linux kernel came into being in spite of them, not because :P 02:22 Exio4 wut? 02:22 Exio4 i didn't understand that 02:22 Exio4 being in spite of them? what? 02:23 Peacock well im not gonna tell you what to google, you probably wouldn't believe me if i did, just do your homework :P 02:23 Exio4 anyway, you say it like the FSF only did shit to the others devs 02:23 Exio4 i ask you, do you know what libraries are your program using? 02:23 Exio4 and what programs are your shell scripts using? 02:23 Peacock naw, all i say is, the FSF are much better at writing speeches than code, especially as of late 02:24 Exio4 GTK 02:24 Exio4 it was created for.. GIMP 02:24 Peacock okay, so because Linux uses some GNU stuff, it should be called GNU/Linux 02:24 Menche hence the acronym 02:24 Menche several layers of acronyms 02:25 Peacock like if winamp was the default player on windows, it should be called Winamp/Windows lol 02:26 Exio4 if winamp was the 'standard' C library of windows and what had the main programs like explorer.exe or cmd.exe and shits, i would say that is correct 02:26 Exio4 yes, they didn't make Xorg 02:26 Exio4 but why do you say it like they just fucked everything? 02:26 Exio4 they actually created the first-layers and did the first step in the creation of all the opensource shit that is around 02:27 Exio4 i'm sure if the "FSF" didn't bitch around at that time, now all software would be closed source with a few 15SLOC exceptions 02:27 Exio4 they saw everything was going closed source, == they say "we keep it free, bitch!" 02:27 Peacock i never said they fucked *everything*, but yes, they've only gotten more hardcore over the years, which IMHO, doesn't help anything 02:28 Exio4 they are a lot part of the history 02:28 Exio4 i just think the FSF has its part in it 02:28 Peacock the more popular linux got, the more extreme the FSF got, which didn't help adoption *at all* 02:28 Exio4 they were always extreme 02:29 Peacock naw, they were more moderate before ubuntu 02:29 Peacock read the comments here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/10/23/184236/torvalds-steamos-will-really-help-linux-on-the-desktop?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter 02:36 Exio4 lol 02:36 Exio4 in those comments you see both opinions 02:36 Peacock agreed, i wouldn't bother to read anything with just one side to it 02:37 Exio4 anyway, funny 02:37 Peacock but i still have to agree with the side that says overall it's better for the linux community to have major hardware manufacturers on-board 02:38 Exio4 Corporations don't care about Linux and free software. We already have Google tightening its grip on the "open" Android. SteamOS will probably be more of the same: a corporation using the argument of "Open-Source" to lock users into their closed-source solution. 02:38 Peacock the FSF's argument is that it's bad to have non-free games 02:38 Peacock corporate money made linux and much of it's best software possible 02:38 NakedFury its bad to have non free games? 02:38 Exio4 are you talking redhat and intel? 02:39 Peacock no, im talking IBM and Oracle 02:39 Exio4 really? 02:39 Peacock reall 02:39 Peacock *really 02:39 Exio4 oracle? 8) 02:39 Peacock despite their recent actions 02:40 Peacock do you think StarOffice/OpenOffice/LibreOfffice would exist? 02:40 Peacock IBM poured a shit-ton of money into linux, and they also provided the nazis with the means to catalogue jews, does that make them evil? 02:40 Exio4 not by those names but there will be some "opensource ofimatic suite" 02:41 Peacock yeah but i doubt someone would have written one from scratch 02:41 Exio4 because there was a "moral need" of some open suite 02:41 Exio4 Peacock: they would, people is crazy, remember? 02:41 Peacock people are crazy, yes i agree with you there 110% lol 02:41 Exio4 why would you even bother to write some code if you can get an already working app for it? 02:42 Exio4 seriously, why would you even do that? 02:42 Peacock well it depends on the cost 02:42 ShadowNinja Peacock: Sun microsystems developed OO.O. 02:42 Exio4 was it sun? 02:42 Exio4 i don't recall tbh 02:42 Exio4 i'm not into OO history :P 02:43 Exio4 i only know everytime i read about oracle, it is about fucking up opensource.. 02:43 Peacock if the OS version of office takes one weekend to get working, and the proprietary version a few hours, then it simply depends on how much money you can get for those few hours 02:43 ShadowNinja Yes, then oracle bought them and gave the trademark/copyright/whatever to apacbe. 02:43 ShadowNinja apache* 02:43 Peacock though, thats a very vague example, it takes more time to get linux working then it ever would to get office working 02:44 Peacock im not saying oracle is an angle :P but like any corporate entity, they did pour money into opensource, and i'm not one to bite the hand that feeds me :P 02:44 Exio4 they did? 02:44 Exio4 like, redhat?, intel? 02:45 Peacock redhat lives off support, which depends on a system complicated enough to run 02:45 ShadowNinja Peacock: pacman -S libreoffice -> select individual parts (writer, impress, etc) -> wait ten minutes. 02:45 Exio4 downloading takes more time here :( 02:45 Peacock shadow - i know, ive done it :P but many windows users can't view my CV properly for some reason 02:45 ShadowNinja ^ Not to be taken as even remotely precise. 02:46 Exio4 for "non-internal" files, lets say, i use pdf 02:47 Exio4 you can see them everywhere 02:47 Exio4 in your phone, in your tablet, in your desktop, in your laptop 02:47 Exio4 on* 02:47 Peacock i tried PDF, but you'd be surprised how many employers don't have a PDF viewer 02:48 NakedFury pdf viewer is one of the first programs I download and install on new pc 02:48 Exio4 well, it is one of the last programs i download 02:48 ShadowNinja text/plain can't be beat. :-) 02:48 Exio4 lol ShadowNinja 02:48 NakedFury first is a new web browser 02:48 Peacock yeah but were talking about corporate machines, not the shit you use at home :P 02:48 Peacock over here, they have to get permission to install anything, thanks to china and russian spying :P 02:49 NakedFury ohh 02:49 Exio4 if an employer doesn't have a PDF viewer 02:49 Exio4 ... the fuck 02:49 Exio4 Peacock: export to html and upload 02:49 Exio4 http://peaco.ck/my-cv/ 02:50 Peacock well, sorry to say, most empoyers are used to getting .doc files that render properly :P 02:50 NakedFury damn spies!!! threatening my chance for a pdf viewer 02:50 Exio4 and i thought argentina was fucked up 02:50 Peacock and if i try to proselytize before an interview, you can guarantee that i wont get the job :P 02:50 Exio4 now i feel better Peacock, thanks 02:51 ShadowNinja HTML is good, just don't use M$ word, it will gladly generate 10MB of code for one unformatted word. 02:51 Peacock exio i dont know how it's like in SA, but if a CV here requires the installation of special software, you can count on one hand the chances of getting a callback :P 02:51 Peacock *CV here 02:51 Exio4 like in SA? 02:51 * Menche wonders who would consider a PDF reader "special software" 02:51 Exio4 me too Menche 02:52 Exio4 do you need to send the CV in a monochrome .gif Peacock? 02:52 Peacock you'd be surprised how many corporate machines still run on 95/98SE :P 02:52 Peacock naw, just an office format that renders properly on MS office 02:52 NakedFury im surprised they dont use some linux kernel to save up on money 02:53 Exio4 not that NakedFury 02:53 Exio4 but actually using a ... 15 years old system? 02:53 Peacock corporations are almost as slow as governments :P 02:53 Exio4 that is unsupported since 2006, too 02:54 Exio4 Peacock: corporations are actually faster than govs 02:54 Menche when I go to a computer store, I see all these nice shiny new machines for sale, and this crappy, dusty old XP machine that the employees use. 02:54 NakedFury so true 02:55 Exio4 i didn't see a "windows98 machine" in any working-place, lets say, for like 4-5 years by now 02:55 Exio4 they all got replaced by the same machine but with windows xp :P 02:55 Peacock exio according to my family living in south america, you'd think the gov't ran everything 02:55 Exio4 what? 02:56 Peacock i have family in Peru and Mexico, and shit couldn't be more fucked up 02:56 Exio4 i don't say it isn't fucked up but i don't get the last phrase 02:56 Exio4 "you'd think the gov't ran everything" 02:56 Peacock well i simply meant that leftist governments *try* to manage the economy, despite their failures 02:57 * VanessaE peeks in 02:57 Exio4 the govs try to manage the economy and they fail at it, yeah 02:57 Exio4 so what? 02:57 Exio4 if you left a country like peru without a "controlled economy", it would get into a default in less than 15 years 02:57 Peacock well, if you think it's a failure, i wish more people thought as you :P 02:58 Exio4 it is the main problem from "developing countries" 02:58 Peacock argentina had a default in 2001 i believe, 02:58 Exio4 yeah, that nice default 02:58 Exio4 do you know what happened since 1991 in argentina? 02:59 Exio4 let the economy manage the country 02:59 Peacock stagflation 02:59 Exio4 the inflation wasn't *that* bad 02:59 stormchaser3000 wow 02:59 Exio4 the first time it was "wow this is so amazing, we couldn't be better" 03:00 Exio4 after that nice moment happened, everything got worse and suddenly exploded in 2001 03:00 Peacock funny that coincided with the dot-com burst 03:01 Exio4 yeah, i saw that too 03:01 Peacock alot of fake money to invest abroad lol 03:01 stormchaser3000 you mean 9-11 03:01 stormchaser3000 9/11* 03:01 Exio4 9-11 isn't an important thing outside the US 03:01 stormchaser3000 oh ok 03:01 stormchaser3000 oh argintina 03:01 Peacock 9-11 had nothing to do with dot-com burst, these companies never made any money 03:02 stormchaser3000 wow ouch 03:02 VanessaE 9/11 is an event that is best left in the past. 03:02 NakedFury I do remember all the crazy shit going on in 1999 about the future and pc and you needed special software to keep working, etc 03:02 VanessaE it was 12 freaking years ago. 03:03 NakedFury Jesus died thousands of years ago and people keep bringing it up 03:03 Peacock the Y2K scare? that was the first bubble of our new century :P 03:03 Exio4 lol, y2k 03:03 NakedFury y2k 03:03 NakedFury that was the word 03:03 stormchaser3000 well Jesus is still alive 03:03 VanessaE Peacock: in a way it kinda did: the dot com bubble did help to build some parts of the economy, which is allegedly what the attack was all about. 03:03 NakedFury aa floppy discs 03:03 VanessaE jesus is a dead jewish zombie :P 03:04 Exio4 what economy? 03:04 Exio4 US'? 03:04 VanessaE yes. 03:04 Peacock the dot-com bubble relieved the economy from the early 90's recession, but it all was based on bullshit, like the mortgage crisis that came later, thank reageanomics for that :P 03:04 VanessaE oh don't get me wrong, I know it was based on bullshit :) 03:05 Peacock reaganomics and thatcherism did alot more damage to the economy than people give it credit for :P 03:05 VanessaE agreed. 03:05 NakedFury well it gave us reaganomics which sounds funny 03:06 NakedFury one positive thing about it 03:06 VanessaE "trickle down"? sure, if you're already rich, maybe. otherwise the only trickle you ever see happens to be rather thin and pale yellow in color. 03:10 Peacock trickle down is bullshit, rich people are rich by being dirt chip, the economy never advanced by people hoarding money 03:10 VanessaE yup 03:10 Peacock *chip = cheap 03:11 Peacock the reason corporations rose to prominence in the 70's and 80's was because of tax credits owing to investments 03:12 Peacock also why the 3rd world has so much debt :P 03:13 Peacock we lent so much more then they could afford to pay back 03:33 Peacock Oh yes Marion 03:34 VanessaE ? 04:27 VanessaE night all. 05:01 nore VanessaE, are you moderator on the forum? 05:02 Exio4 she is 05:02 nore is she there (is was partly to ping her ;)) 05:02 nore ? 05:03 nore https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115414#p115414 05:03 nore <-- post that is bumping an old thread in discussion in other language, asking to speak English... 05:04 Menche plus it's in the other languages section, lol 05:04 * Menche doesn't think those spoilers were necessary 05:05 * nore too 05:24 nore are there methods in the lua api to transform a unit vector in pitch/yaw and the reverse? 06:24 FreeFull nore: There is probably a two-argument arctangent function 06:33 cy1 Anyone know how the dam on VanessaE's server generates 4 million EU in technic? 06:34 cy1 The creator has everything locked down. 06:34 ruskie ask them? 06:37 cy1 ruskie: webdesigner97 has been gone for a while. 06:37 cy1 This is why I hate protect blocks. 06:40 cy1 He's probably just lying about it making that much power. 07:33 nore Calinou, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115414#p115414 07:34 Calinou done 07:34 * Calinou taunts with rocket launcher 08:00 sfan5 hi everyone 08:04 Calinou hi 08:08 nore hi 08:29 cy1 I just want a bow. Not a rocket launcher, not an assault rifle, just a bow. That kills mobs from a distance. 08:37 JamesTait Good morning all; happy World Development Information Day! :-D 10:31 sfan5 noooo... reddit is down 10:34 kahrl did they vote it down? 11:07 jojoa1997 hi 11:22 Dan_D What do you think? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115454#p115454 11:41 germa hi! 11:42 germa i see many mod have fire dependences... is this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=745 12:08 thexyz i-it's not like anything's wrong with this topic https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7506 12:14 PilzAdam Hello everyone! 12:20 germa hello! 12:20 germa and thank you for your mods :) 12:26 sfan5 according to google php.net may harm my computer 12:30 thexyz don't visit it then 12:40 us`0gb I think the flat map generator is broken: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=00887bf http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=029b498 12:41 us`0gb Up in the sky, it creates a semi-repeating pattern of nodes. 12:41 us`0gb If you delete map.sqlite, the pattern changes, but it's still there. 12:42 sfan5 google broke its safe browsing system 12:43 us`0gb I've never heard of its safe browsing system. 12:48 PilzAdam us`0gb, what mapgenerator have you choosen? 12:48 us`0gb v6, with the "flat" flag. 12:48 us`0gb When the "flat" flag is not used, they go away. 12:50 us`0gb Oops, it looks like it's indev, not v6. I'll test with v6 now though. 12:51 us`0gb (It's been a while since I started that map, I forgot.) 12:54 PilzAdam flat works for me in v6 and indev 12:59 us`0gb Weird ... THe bug won't repeat in other worlds .... but if I delete that world's map.sqlite, those structures are generated again. 13:02 us`0gb I'm very confused now. 13:04 us`0gb And now it won't even happen on that one map ... 13:09 us`0gb I was getting some odd repeating PseudoRandom() stuff as well, but that's been cleared up now too. 13:09 us`0gb Maybe it was just some sort of system hickup. 13:41 nore us`0gb, what mods are enabled in this world? 13:43 us`0gb nore: None that put stuff up in the sky (or rather, I removed the one "mod" that did, and it still happened). Also none that are released yet, besides characters and creative, neither of which do anything at mapgen time. 13:44 us`0gb Actually, the none that were enabled do anything at mapgen time, besides defining the mapgen aliases. 13:46 nore and what is in the other world files? (map_meta.txt, etc.) 13:47 us`0gb All the defaults, with the map generator being indev and the only flag being "flat". 13:47 nore could you paste it somewhere please? 13:47 nore (so I can see if I can reproduce that bug) 13:48 us`0gb I'll pastebin it, but the bug won't even repeat on my own machine any more. 13:48 nore even when copying the existing world and deleting map_meta.txt? 13:48 nore sry, map.sqlite 13:49 us`0gb I delete map.sqlite, and leave all other files intact. 13:49 nore and does it reproduce? 13:50 us`0gb http://pastebin.com/90Q8FwsU 13:50 us`0gb It did the first few times. Now it will not reproduce anymore. 13:54 nore I can't reproduce... :( 13:55 us`0gb I know ... but I swear it happened. Honest. 13:56 nore I believe you (maybe there was a memory problem, and the increment for consecutive columns was changed, and that caused that offset) 13:57 IceCraft hi 13:57 us`0gb Hello! 13:57 nore hi 13:58 us`0gb A memory problem might explain why the patten was almost regular. 13:58 us`0gb It repeated, but with slight variance. 13:58 nore I ran once into similar pattern with a bug in my voxel manip code... 13:58 nore (except for the slight variation) 13:59 us`0gb Maybe it repeated perfectly until the next phase of the map generater altered it. 14:05 VanessaE bbl 14:21 BlockMen hi everyone 14:21 PilzAdam hey 14:21 us`0gb Hello! 14:23 BlockMen ah, PilzAdam, i need another ok for #928 14:30 PilzAdam BlockMen, didnt we already talked about that? 14:31 PilzAdam IIRC I said it would be better to set the listcolors per list, and be able to use images instead of plane colors 14:35 BlockMen IMO this could be an further improvement somewhen 14:35 BlockMen feel free to add this ;) 14:36 PilzAdam I would be fine with this, though we need to make sure that it can be done in the future without conflicts 14:37 BlockMen can you see anything that would/could cause this in my pull? 14:38 PilzAdam I mostly care about the API 14:42 BlockMen that means no? 14:42 PilzAdam no, it doesnt mean no 14:43 PilzAdam it means: "think about things first" 14:44 BlockMen there are 3 possible answers on my question: yes (insert reasons), no, idk(insert reasons) 14:44 us`0gb It means one bad API function could haunt us all forever. 14:45 PilzAdam BlockMen, I want _you_ to answer that question 14:45 PilzAdam that means: 1) think about how the API for my suggestions would be and 2) think if it will conflict with your changes 14:45 PilzAdam since you just worked in that part of the code and know it better than me 14:49 BlockMen 1)IMO your suggestions would be better in a new definition since [listcolors] are already kinda large, but thats not necessary. 2)it would be possible to add your suggestions without conflicts to my changes 14:50 PilzAdam what would be a "new definition" 14:50 PilzAdam +? 14:51 BlockMen [listimg], [listdef], what ever makes sense and is not used already 14:51 BlockMen but how i said, not necesarry 14:54 BlockMen and i might know the code better, but im not as good as you at coding. keep that in mind ;) 14:55 kaeza afternoon 14:56 BlockMen hi Jordach 14:58 Jordach Evergreen! 14:58 Jordach > A new java update is availible 14:59 Jordach get fucked Java, i only have you because most things don't work due to lazy ass programmers 14:59 * us`0gb doesn't know if he even has Java installed 15:00 * BlockMen has no Java 15:00 * PilzAdam has java 15:01 PilzAdam BlockMen, who else has agreed on the pull request? 15:01 BlockMen sfan5 15:03 PilzAdam guiFormSpecMenu.cpp:607 doesnt this change allow more parts than allowed? 15:06 * Jordach pokes Evergreen again 15:06 us`0gb It seems I have no Java. 15:06 Evergreen pokity 15:06 Evergreen what does thou need? 15:07 Jordach you know 15:07 Evergreen of course 15:07 Jordach same place again 15:07 Jordach (ip hasn't changed over 24 hours afaik) 15:07 BlockMen PilzAdam, it allows to add another parameter now that is only used if present 15:08 BlockMen in this case "true/false" to clip background image of formspec 15:08 PilzAdam wouldnt it be better to change it to if(parts == 3 || parts == 4) ? 15:09 PilzAdam so the "Invalid background element(" error is also thrown when there are 5 or more parts 15:10 PilzAdam also: is it intentional that the variables in guiFormSpecMenu.h are not initialized? 15:10 * Jordach pokes sfan5 15:10 * sfan5 pokes Jordach 15:11 BlockMen i dont see the reason for that, all "useless" parameters are not processed (IIRC it is somewhere else done that way in formspecs) 15:13 PilzAdam https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/blob/77ec68fa0870c624ef46b0040dd48833fa221be2/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L642 15:13 PilzAdam all the surrounding code does it like this 15:15 BlockMen hmm, seems i was wrong. ok, i will change it 15:18 PilzAdam I have to go, bbl 15:58 markveidemanis Hello! 15:58 us`0gb Hello! 16:07 kaeza anyone with windows cares to do some testing? 16:07 Jordach yes 16:08 kaeza Jordach, install homedecor and see if it bugs out 16:08 Jordach > homedecor 16:08 Jordach feck no 16:08 * us`0gb 's windows are made of glass and are incapable of software testing 16:08 Jordach ...if you pirate windows, do you have cracked windows ;P 16:09 us`0gb Probably. But if you're going to pirate something, why pirate THAT? 16:09 kaeza windows are already broken anyway, so how can you crack it :P 16:09 us`0gb I've seen a desktop wallpaper that says "Windows XP Pirated Edition". 16:09 kaeza +? 16:17 dafull97 hey guys 16:19 kaeza hi 16:19 dafull97 who is here? 16:19 dafull97 i know you are kaeza 16:19 us`0gb Hello! 16:20 dafull97 us`0gb, hey... i have some ideas 16:20 us`0gb Ideas for what? 16:21 dafull97 Minetest Servers 16:30 Jordach hello Calinou 16:30 Jordach next week will be community map week again :D 16:31 Calinou hi 16:31 us`0gb dafull97, are you going to tell us your ideas? 16:32 dafull97 ohh, sorry one minute please i have t o finish my owkr 16:33 us`0gb No worries. But it's odd to bring it up if you don't plan on discussing it. 16:33 NakedFury very odd 16:34 dafull97 ok, back... and we should make 2-3 servers that are Minetest's and really large maps yea? 16:35 us`0gb I don't understand. Like one map shared between servers? 16:37 dafull97 no, like 3-4 servers that are minetest's and not ran by the community... and all them have there own maps... and like one in the midd. of the us, eastcoast and westcoast... 16:37 dafull97 minimumize lag... :) 16:37 NakedFury that costs $$ 16:37 dafull97 yes, it does 16:37 dafull97 does minetest take donations? 16:38 us`0gb Can Minetest afford more servers? If so, is that what the money should be spent on? Perhaps not, to both questions. 16:39 dafull97 well it was just and idea.. =D 16:41 us`0gb There would also be argument as to what "mods" to have installed. An interesting idea, but I doubt it would work out. 16:44 NakedFury https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=208728115975710 16:44 NakedFury check that out 16:44 NakedFury its a video 16:47 us`0gb The video won't play without Flash, which I don't have. WHat's it about? 16:53 reactor markveidemanis: o/ 16:53 reactor How's the science? 16:56 Wuzzy Wow, there is another person on this big, cold planet who does not have Flash. I did not expect that. There is still hope for humankind. :-) 17:00 reactor I do. 17:00 reactor It doesn't work with my current browser, though. 17:01 reactor And I do not like the idea of Flash. 17:01 nore Wuzzy, have you access to the main page of the wiki? 17:01 Wuzzy Yes, I have read access. XD 17:01 nore Because it says that all craft recipes are on "Crafting" page 17:02 kaeza I don't use flash because performance, but still enable it sometimes for old-as-ass games 17:02 Wuzzy BlockMen has write access on the main page. 17:02 nore btw, why has there been no changes, lately? 17:02 Wuzzy OMG 17:02 Wuzzy WTF is wrong with you 17:03 Wuzzy just because I don’t edit the wiki all day any more does not mean its dead... 17:03 Wuzzy xD 17:03 nore no, of course :p 17:03 Wuzzy I edited the wiki a lot in last days. I think I need a break 17:03 nore I was just surprised since there were 200 edits a day previously 17:04 Wuzzy Oh, there is another reason: 17:04 Wuzzy Because YOU didn’t edit something :P :P :P 17:04 BlockMen where i have write access? 17:04 Wuzzy Onto the main page 17:04 Wuzzy of the wiki 17:05 BlockMen yes, why? 17:05 Wuzzy well yes we were talking about that the “Crafting” description is not accurate anymore 17:05 Wuzzy Well I removed the crafting recipes from the page and replaced it with a /description/ of crafting and links to important crafting pages 17:06 Wuzzy I did that because the redundancy was simply not managable anymore 17:06 Wuzzy having to upate multiple pages for 1 recipe was a pain in the ass 17:06 BlockMen looks good i guess 17:06 BlockMen any suggestion for the new subtitle on mainpage 17:06 Wuzzy But the description on the main page is of course wrong now. 17:07 reactor BlockMen: "free goatse for everyone" 17:07 Wuzzy “How to craft.” 17:07 reactor Yes. 17:07 reactor "How to craft a goatse." 17:07 nore Wuzzy, wouldn't it be possible to make something that would update all craft recipes on the wiki (and "as a crating ingredient") with a single recipe? 17:07 Wuzzy You mean, like automagically? 17:08 BlockMen Wuzzy, done 17:08 nore yes 17:08 Wuzzy good 17:08 Wuzzy nore: There you have your edit. :D 17:09 nore I don't even know the basic commands of the wiki... :( 17:09 Wuzzy What do you mean with “commands”? 17:10 reactor Wuzzy: "right shoulder-hut!" etc. 17:10 Wuzzy WTF? 17:10 Wuzzy What are you talking about? 17:10 reactor Commands eh. 17:10 reactor Would you like to talk about it? 17:10 nore I mean, how you create a table, a craft recipe, etc. 17:11 Wuzzy Ah THIS 17:11 Wuzzy This is called “syntax”. 17:11 nore well, I don't know how this works... 17:12 Wuzzy Since the wiki runs on the MediaWiki software, you have to look on www.mediawiki.org 17:12 Wuzzy I learned most stuff there, too. 17:12 Wuzzy Tables are a bit more complex. 17:13 Wuzzy I recommond starting with simple texts and simple formatting so you can get a feeling how MediaWiki works. 17:13 Wuzzy after that, you can still try to learn tables 17:14 us`0gb Just don't use sudo on the wiki. Pretty much all the other commands are mostly safe. 17:14 reactor ?! 17:14 Wuzzy aaah i totally forgot 17:14 Wuzzy today is 24th october 17:14 reactor Are you talking about UNIX or about some web interface thing? 17:14 Wuzzy this means it is International Troll Day 17:15 Wuzzy this is why you are all trolling each other 17:15 reactor No, it's International Cabbage Day. 17:15 Wuzzy quot era demonstrandum 17:15 reactor We're all eating cabbage to get disgestion. 17:15 us`0gb Web interface thing, reactor. We were joking about the use of the term "commands" when it should have been "syntax". 17:15 reactor ...in order to go to the toilet at the same time and flush it in sync with others. 17:15 reactor And see what happens. 17:16 reactor john_minetest: o/ 17:16 reactor You offend me by that statement. 17:16 reactor And... would you like to talk about it? 17:16 us`0gb If you're not a pony, it isn't directed at you. 17:17 reactor Oh good. 17:17 us`0gb SO he isn't calling you a pony, he's just ignoring you. 17:17 * Jordach isn't a pony 17:17 us`0gb *So 17:17 reactor Would you like to talk about it, us`0gb? 17:17 us`0gb I'm fairly certain my keys are too small for ponies. 17:17 us`0gb reactor, talk about what? 17:17 reactor Your keys? 17:18 us`0gb Keyboard keys. 17:18 reactor Why does their size make you worry? 17:18 reactor Are they smaller than others' keys? 17:18 Wuzzy Did you know that my IRC program has a feature called “ignore”? Just letting you know. 17:18 us`0gb I'm not worries, just saying I couldn't be here if I were a pony. 17:18 reactor Wuzzy has just ignored everyone. *foreveralone.jpg* 17:18 reactor us`0gb: but the keys 17:19 reactor us`0gb: you wish you had bigger keyboard? 17:19 reactor Does that mean something? 17:19 us`0gb I tell people my chat client has an ignore feature when they're being annoying, then I just ignore them myself. But I don't think it actually has that feature. 17:19 us`0gb Bigger keyboard? No, my keyboard is fine. 17:20 reactor /ignore is lacking purpose, somewhat. 17:20 reactor You can't see the ignoree's reaction. 17:20 reactor So it's no fun. 17:20 us`0gb Jordach, it's XChat. 17:21 Jordach us`0gb, it has /ignore all 17:21 reactor XChat... oh gosh, people are still using that _. 17:21 us`0gb Oh? I didn't know that. 17:21 us`0gb reactor, what would you recommend and why? 17:21 reactor idk... something text-based 17:21 us`0gb Ah. No wonder then. 17:21 reactor IRC is not particulary in need of GUI. 17:22 us`0gb Text-based options lack that point-and-click ease. 17:22 reactor I/O err. 35887: imcompatible tastes. 17:22 us`0gb Yeah. At least both options are available. 17:23 reactor It's tempting to say point and click is unnecessary in IRC. So I've just said it. 17:23 reactor It's unnecessary in most things. 17:23 reactor Only makes you lift your right hand from the keyboard. 17:23 kaeza let's all go back to teletypes because GUIs and consoles are evil and unnecessary 17:23 us`0gb It's unnecessary almost everywhere. That doesn't mean it's not nice to have. 17:23 kaeza because fuck technology advancements 17:23 reactor I'm not saying they have no application, kaeza. 17:24 reactor I'm saying they're used inappropriately. 17:24 Wuzzy so nore did this help you now or not? 17:24 reactor They're fine in drawing programs, games and other visual things. 17:24 reactor But the rodent must be kept from text processing. 17:25 khonkhortisan The menu has an image in the credits 17:25 reactor us`0gb: would you like to go back to keyboard sizes? 17:25 reactor You know. I still wonder what made you say that your keyboard is big. 17:26 us`0gb No, I said it was too small for a pony to use. 17:26 reactor Or is it that your keyboard is too small, and you wish you had a bigger one, and you're in denial? 17:26 us`0gb No, my keyboard is just fine, as long as no pony needs to use it. 17:27 reactor Oh. Pardon me. You weren't stating it's big. 17:27 us`0gb Right. 17:27 reactor Keyboard enlargement? 17:27 khonkhortisan the buttons are a little darker than the default irrlicht theme 17:27 * Jordach updates clementine to 1.2 17:27 us`0gb No, the keyboard is fine. 17:28 reactor Alright. 17:28 Jordach the GIT 1.2 (before release) finally started to fuck up 17:28 reactor john_minetest: did you know there is a link between paraphilia and pony stuff? 17:29 Jordach and not it's stopped crashing on playing back internet streams 17:29 Jordach now* 17:29 reactor wow* 17:30 us`0gb No wonder I'm not into ponies. I have aphilia. 17:30 reactor john_minetest: ...probably. I haven't seen those. 17:31 us`0gb "Hello everyone!". 17:31 us`0gb It's similar, bit not copyrighted. 17:32 reactor Hello every... Uhm. Every... Okay, let it be "everycomputer". 17:32 us`0gb Why is he copyrighting these things? And how is he getting that approved? 17:34 reactor john_minetest: what I was saying is, "hello everypony" has a bad context. 17:34 reactor Namely, the so-called "brony" community. 17:35 reactor These are problematic types to encounter. 17:35 reactor I do things in the name of Cornholio. 17:36 Jordach !stfu reactor 17:36 MinetestBot reactor, someone thinks you need to shut the fuck up before you get muted. 17:36 reactor ...not. Alrighty. 17:36 Jordach i've wanted to test that for a while now 17:36 reactor What if... 17:36 reactor !stfu MinetestBot 17:36 MinetestBot MinetestBot, someone thinks you need to shut the fuck up before you get muted. 17:37 us`0gb john_minetest, I agree, I don't know why people jump down others' throats about My Little Pony. 17:37 reactor No, nothing has crashed, apparently. 17:37 us`0gb I like to think my time is too valuable for My Little Pony, but this isn't the case for everyone. Some peoples' time is too valuable for Minetest, yet here we are. 17:38 Jordach my computing teacher knows why people like MLP - everyone said we need an intervention 17:38 Wuzzy Quick question: When I try to join a server I never joined before and it requires a password. What does happen if I enter into the server the first time? 17:38 reactor Wuzzy: the password is created. 17:39 fairiestoy Your player file will be created with several informations 17:39 us`0gb If it requires a password and you don't have it, you can't get in. 17:39 reactor Wuzzy: so that nobody else can log in with your name. 17:39 Wuzzy okay 17:39 Wuzzy this means the first password is created, too 17:39 reactor I wonder... one could abuse the password system. 17:40 Wuzzy oh boy this seems cumbersome 17:40 reactor Write a shell script that launches minetest with different usernames. 17:40 us`0gb THere might be a hole in that, if you send control characters. I don't know. 17:40 Wuzzy It would be insecure to have the same password for all servers 17:40 Jordach nope.avi 17:40 reactor (it would take long to clutter up the server's disk full) 17:40 Wuzzy why “nope”? 17:40 reactor (but it's _theoretically_ possible!) 17:40 Jordach Wuzzy, nobody's worked mine out 17:41 reactor Or is there flood prevention for logins? 17:41 Wuzzy Well. 17:41 reactor Or for registered users? 17:41 Wuzzy I theoretically could open a server 17:41 us`0gb ... I wonder if THAT's what the DDoSer did to me ... 17:41 Jordach my redcrab 0.4-dev20120106 password has been the same for almost 2 YEARS 17:41 Wuzzy which requires a password 17:41 reactor I think it would be useful to have "new users per day" limit. 17:41 Wuzzy BAM! Soon I get a lot of default passwords 17:41 Wuzzy :-) 17:41 Wuzzy No cracking skills required AT ALL 17:42 Wuzzy This is why I say its insecure 17:42 us`0gb I think it would be a good idea to store the last time an account was used. That way, you could clear out all unused accounts. 17:42 reactor Yes, that, too. 17:42 Wuzzy And by this method I could obtain YOUR password, too. (assuming you use the same PW everywhere) 17:42 reactor But that still doesn't cancel the possibility of "new user" flood, us`0gb. 17:42 fairiestoy us, write a mod for it :P 17:42 us`0gb I actually plan to write that in a Lua plugin, but C++ would be better, to put it in the player's file. 17:43 reactor mk 17:43 Wuzzy ? 17:43 reactor _ 17:43 us`0gb reactor, the new user flood prevention would prevent legitimate users. 17:43 Wuzzy A look into my server files would be enough 17:43 reactor us`0gb: well... how about, say, 100 users per day? 17:43 reactor us`0gb: it's unlikely to be hit by "legit" users. 17:44 reactor us`0gb: on loaded servers, it could be raised 17:44 fairiestoy Wuzzy: I see no advantage in doing that anyway. 17:44 Wuzzy You mean, no advantage in abusing other’s accounts? 17:44 fairiestoy yep 17:44 us`0gb One hundred attack accounts are created. Then the attacker must stop. But then a REAL user tries to join. 17:44 fairiestoy This is a free sandbox game. What the hell should one do with another account? 17:45 Wuzzy You are right but I fear not everyone on this cold, big planet is sane. 17:45 us`0gb Wuzzy, so true. 17:45 reactor us`0gb: so what, put a message in the log 17:45 Wuzzy Some ppl do cracking stuff for teh lulz 17:45 fairiestoy True, but then i just would create another account and that it :P 17:45 reactor us`0gb: and let users mail complaints 17:45 reactor us`0gb: that's what mailing lists are for 17:45 us`0gb It's a start, but still not good. 17:46 Wuzzy then we could disable the password system altogether because it is basicly pointless 17:46 us`0gb Plus then you have to expose your email address. I personally expose mine all the time, but other people might not want to. 17:46 reactor us`0gb: so what? 17:46 Wuzzy oh and the sandbox argument does not hold I think 17:46 reactor us`0gb: you'll still get spammed sooner or later, everyone does. 17:46 Wuzzy because players can *own* nodes on some servers 17:47 fairiestoy Btw, somebody has experience with debian on a Samsung netbook n455? My backlight is not adjustable. 17:47 Wuzzy Never heard of griefers? 17:47 fairiestoy And xbacklight is not working 17:47 us`0gb fairiestoy, what desktop interface? 17:48 reactor john_minetest: interesting idea. 17:48 fairiestoy Currently Gnome. Although i like to change to lxde 17:48 us`0gb fairiestoy, I can't adjust my backlight with some desktop interfaces. 17:48 reactor It does. 17:48 reactor And it can be avoided by log rotation. 17:48 us`0gb GNOME? Okay, sorry, I don't know then. It works in GNOME for me. 17:48 reactor Or plain fifo instead of logfile. 17:48 us`0gb It must be a different issue. 17:48 us`0gb #debian ? 17:48 reactor debilian 17:49 fairiestoy Yeah, have to try it there then. Thanks anyway for trying. Just suddenly came up with it and asked it here 17:49 reactor No, john_minetest, normal people virtualise. 17:51 reactor No, almost whole system. 17:52 reactor So that servers can't harm the main OS. 17:52 reactor In case of tampering. 17:54 reactor john_minetest: btw, facility? 17:55 us`0gb Who virtualizes, apart from those using online services? Do many people running it on their own system virtualize? 17:56 reactor us`0gb: "people running it on their own system" does not imply "normal", "proper", etc. 17:56 reactor In general, it's advised to use virtualisation for whatever external services you provide. 17:56 reactor Especially if that machine also serves as a desktop. 17:56 us`0gb Proper does not imply "normal". You said "normal". 17:57 us`0gb Normal people do things in an incredibly insecure way. 17:57 reactor "average" is not "normal" 17:58 us`0gb "average" is a lot closer than "skilled" to "normal". 17:58 reactor Sadly. 17:58 * Jordach is just plainly grumpy 17:59 Jordach im not a fan of youtubers reccomend minetest -- griefers, assholes and general idiots 17:59 Jordach reccomending* 17:59 reactor Oh well. I made a mistake calling skilled people normal. 17:59 reactor Unfortunately, skilled people are rarity nowadays. 18:00 us`0gb For sure. 18:00 Jordach us`0gb = reactor 18:00 us`0gb How did you know? 18:00 reactor Jordach: I have to confess. That's true. 18:01 us`0gb Hmm. I might look into virtualization when I have time. I run Minetest on a headless server, not a desktop, but I don't yet virtualize. 18:01 * Jordach should stop with the omnipresence 18:01 reactor us`0gb: me, too :) 18:01 BlockMen Jordach != Jordach!? 18:01 Jordach haha BlockMen 18:01 Jordach no 18:02 reactor I'm still testing the services, and their uptime is too small to care about virtualisation now. 18:02 Jordach and im in a +S channel with +i on 18:02 reactor I mean, I only run them observed. 18:02 Jordach if i cant join it then im false :P 18:02 reactor Jordach = BlockMen 18:02 BlockMen hell, no 18:02 BlockMen im PilzAdam :D 18:02 reactor Oh. 18:02 Jordach <- can't speak German 18:02 reactor Hai PlizAdam! 18:03 BlockMen at least Jordach thinks i am^^ 18:03 reactor s/Hai/Hay/ 18:03 us`0gb Well, PilzAdam admitted he was Jordach, so ... 18:03 khonkhortisan Sie nein sprechen 18:03 us`0gb Jordach == PilzAdam == BlockMen 18:03 Jordach oh this is bullshit 18:03 reactor "True" 18:03 * BlockMen confused now 18:03 * khonkhortisan is me 18:04 reactor Would you like to talk about confusion, BlockMen? 18:04 BlockMen umm... 18:04 BlockMen no 18:04 reactor Why not? Does something make you uncomfortable about being confused? 18:06 khonkhortisan '!=' ≠ '≠' 18:07 us`0gb != == ≠18:07 us`0gb The first is used in code, the second in mathematics. 18:07 reactor That uncomfortable moment when your font does not have the appropriate character, and X uses some substitute. 18:07 us`0gb It's the mathematical "not equal to" sign. 18:08 reactor != is used to substitute ≠ where you can't use ≠18:08 reactor reactor != reactor 18:08 khonkhortisan I wish to use ≠ in code 18:08 khonkhortisan and ÷ 18:08 us`0gb "≠" is hard to type. 18:08 reactor khonkhortisan: you would have to edit your keyboard map 18:08 reactor ы 18:09 khonkhortisan compose + / + = 18:09 reactor ййййй ййййй 18:09 khonkhortisan I love my compose key 18:09 TheLastProject If you'd use that in any project I need to work on later my first vim command would be ":%s/≠/!=/g" 18:09 khonkhortisan compose + : + - 18:09 khonkhortisan then I could require changing it back just before the commit 18:10 khonkhortisan I'd be annoying if I did that 18:10 TheLastProject Who says I'll commit back to you? 18:10 TheLastProject I'll fork and keep everything to myself 18:10 TheLastProject You can change it yourself :P 18:10 khonkhortisan then I'd commit to you 18:10 TheLastProject Evil... 18:10 reactor "Am I evil? Yes, I am!" 18:11 khonkhortisan inherently, according to school. 18:11 us`0gb How so? 18:11 reactor khonkhortisan: ? 18:12 reactor Don't you say. 18:12 khonkhortisan "Are people inherently good or inherently evil?" I don't like the question, but it has been answered in a way that makes it seem official. 18:12 khonkhortisan it involved the book, "Lord of the Flies" 18:13 Jordach People turn animalistic for power, but when a larger force, it stops. 18:14 Jordach larger force appears* 18:14 TheLastProject The world "animalistic" here is quite out of place. Many animals treat each other properly even without a larger force 18:14 TheLastProject But I think "animalistic", "beastly" and "humane" are quite bad words 18:14 us`0gb Also, humans ARE animals, so we are always like animals, as we are like ourselves. 18:14 TheLastProject They all revolve around the basic, purely wrong, idea that humans are the "good guys" 18:15 khonkhortisan I am not an animal! 18:15 khonkhortisan I forgot who said that 18:15 us`0gb A lier, that's who. 18:15 khonkhortisan some actor 18:16 khonkhortisan Until they find the missing link, I'm not a monkey 18:16 khonkhortisan /ape/chimpanzee/gorilla 18:16 TheLastProject Must refrain... from calling you... the missing link... 18:16 khonkhortisan lol 18:17 us`0gb khonkhortisan, you're not a monkey, but you are a mammal. Mammals are animals. 18:18 khonkhortisan My mental power and ability to take over the world as a civilization separates me in some way, even if not by the word "animal" 18:18 reactor Just read it. 18:18 reactor "animalistic" And what we get? Bronies! 18:18 reactor s/we/do we/ 18:18 reactor I've got where they come from! 18:18 us`0gb khonkhortisan, that would be because of your theory of mind, but you're still an animal. 18:19 * khonkhortisan barks 18:19 reactor The most scary thing is not bronies, though. It's that they feed that stuff to children who have no judgement yet! 18:19 JackGruff but if we don't feed things to children, how will we save them from damnation? 18:21 us`0gb Trust me, there's much scarier things than mere pony-lovers out there. I'd tell you what, but I'd rather not start an argument here. 18:22 kaeza welcome to the internet! come, I'll be your guide 18:23 reactor I've already come. 18:23 reactor Today. 18:32 reactor Oh. I mean, come home. 18:46 PilzAdam I think its funny how github tells me that I should tell my government to use github 18:47 reactor PlizAdam: no one makes you. 18:47 Jordach PilzAdam, are chests flammable 18:47 PilzAdam no, AFAIK 18:47 TheLastProject Governments should host their own Gitlab thing or so 18:48 reactor Hitlerlab 18:48 Jordach curb the racism reactor 18:49 Jordach not everyone in germany is a facist 18:49 PilzAdam reactor is a troll 18:49 PilzAdam Jordach, dont feed him 18:49 reactor Jordach: please note I didn't even know you're talking about Germany. 18:49 reactor I'm not ignorant enough to assume that. 18:50 khonkhortisan But you are ignorant enough to assume North is up 18:51 reactor Depends on relative to what. 18:52 us`0gb North is perpendicular to up. 18:52 us`0gb So are south, east, and west. 18:52 reactor You're talking about coordinates in drawing? 18:52 reactor Then yes. 18:52 khonkhortisan Maps are normally drawn with north at the top, while south (or east/west) could be at the top instead 18:53 khonkhortisan Pencils are normally printed right-handed, but could be printed left-handed 18:54 reactor Pencils? 18:55 reactor They're hexagonal. 18:55 khonkhortisan Yes, pencils. If you hold one in your left hand the text will be upside-down. 18:56 reactor Meth? 18:56 khonkhortisan ? 18:57 reactor Calinuo: o/ 19:07 JackGruff https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1598 19:08 JackGruff why hasn't that been moved yet? 19:09 Jordach Mega Blocks [BETA] 0.9: http://i.imgur.com/5phUqUi.png 19:11 kaeza [17:00:34] * reactor se ha marchado (Quit: ELIZA/IRC) 19:11 kaeza makes sense 19:13 VanessaE kaeza: re: signs_lib on windows... weird. 19:13 VanessaE hi all 19:13 VanessaE hi RBA 19:13 RealBadAngel hi 19:13 kaeza hey RBA, V 19:14 kaeza VanessaE, yep 19:14 kaeza windows distinguishes between "binary" and "text" files 19:14 kaeza which is stupid to say the least 19:15 kaeza again? O_o 19:15 VanessaE john_minetest_: it's windows, so "stupid" should be assumed :P 19:16 * Jordach slaps VanessaE 19:16 PilzAdam hello john_minetest underscore underscore 19:22 Jordach john_minetest, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115515#p115515 19:23 Jordach im playtesting the map currently 19:23 Jordach (closed beta with Evergreen) 19:24 Wuzzy Is there any height limit for L-system trees? 19:24 PilzAdam yes 19:25 Wuzzy how high? 19:25 PilzAdam cant remember exactly, but the vmanip that is used to build the trees only loads a certain amount of blocks 19:25 Wuzzy Is it larger than 100? 19:29 VanessaE Jordach: I stand behind my statement. Windows == stupid. no, strike that. Windows == stoopid. 19:29 Wuzzy rofl 19:29 VanessaE (Linux is stupid too, just less so) 19:29 Jordach you want to talk to my friend learn_more 19:29 Jordach he works in MSVC for a livingf 19:29 Jordach -f 19:29 VanessaE all OS's suck. some just suck more or less than others :) 19:29 TheLastProject ^ That 19:29 Mati^1 re 19:30 Wuzzy I can remember a song called “Every OS sucks.” 19:30 TheLastProject Computers are a complete mess altogether, but there's no way to start over and do it right 19:30 TheLastProject The only thing we can (and do) do now is built abstraction layer over abstraction layer, killing performance but making it nicer to work with 19:30 Wuzzy Ah, I found it: 19:32 VanessaE TheLastProject: there is a way - the problem is current OS's are so entrenched that it may never actually be possble. 19:32 VanessaE possible* 19:32 VanessaE though Android did pretty much trounce iOS.... 19:32 VanessaE so who knows. 19:32 TheLastProject Android is a mess at the core as well :P 19:33 TheLastProject But we can't really restart, it would support so little, and people wouldn't accept it 19:33 VanessaE perhaps, but I meant that from the standpoint of "new guy walks in, suddenly old guy is unloved and unwanted" 19:33 TheLastProject Hmm 19:33 VanessaE we can restart. it's all a matter of desire. 19:33 VanessaE look at QNX for example 19:34 VanessaE that one had (has?) potential 19:34 VanessaE but the marketing behind it is...lacking. 19:34 VanessaE or Contiki, on the 8-bit classic platforms. 19:35 VanessaE what are they doing right that the rest of the world seems to always do wrong? 19:37 VanessaE memory overload? 19:38 VanessaE could be 19:40 PilzAdam bye 19:42 VanessaE john_minetest: that's pretty dumb - why should a userland app have that capability? O.o 19:42 us^0gb Because it's Windows. 19:53 fairiestoy throw it out a window 19:54 TheLastProject john_minetest: One time I had a blue screen while it was shutting down, which I did while I was leaving the house. Smart system decided that rebooting was the correct solution and spent hours wasting energy while I was gone 20:04 Calinou desktop will follow 20:04 * Calinou updated netbook to xubuntu 13.10 :> 20:13 us{0gb I fixed the faulty sorting of file names on my system, and it had the unexpected result of fixing the faulty sorting in Minetest. Bonus! 20:14 us{0gb Sorting of nodes in the creative inventory, I mean. 20:15 VanessaE bbl 20:25 Jordach btw, who moved my post from post your screenshots to the floating islands thread 20:25 Jordach or i might have posted it there 20:25 Jordach i dont fucking know :P 20:27 cy1 hey 20:27 cy1 heyyyyy 20:27 cy1 a lost gamer built a dam 20:28 cy1 does it work? how could a dam work? 20:28 cy1 To generate technic power I mean. 20:28 cy1 (obviously it works to block water) 20:33 Miner_48er flowing water on water mills 20:51 BlockMen gd night everyone 21:49 Warr1024 so like 2 months ago I wrote a simple portability fix for minetest that got it working on OpenBSD again. 21:49 Warr1024 but when I tested it, it didn't work, and it looked like some kind of unrelated issue. 21:50 Warr1024 well, I just rebased it onto master and did a clean build, and lo and behold, it mysteriously now works. 21:50 Warr1024 no idea why it wasn't working before, but I'm guessing I either had crap in my local env, or the original commit wasn't based on the right revision or something. 21:51 us{0gb That's great that it works now. I wonder why it didn't before. 21:51 Warr1024 I got a pull req in for it. 21:51 Warr1024 965 21:59 us{0gb Awesome. I hope it gets pulled, portability is great. 22:10 Warr1024 heh, I was sort of hoping to bump into a dev in here, to bring it to their attention 22:10 Warr1024 ah well 22:12 Warr1024 I'm hoping at least 0.4.8 doesn't end up getting released breaking portability with platforms that worked before. 22:12 Warr1024 though I'm only currently in a position to test OpenBSD and Debian, and I'm sure a lot of people would notice breakage on Debian at least as quickly as I do. 22:13 sapier *g* difficult to maintain more and more platforms while time passes warr ;-) 22:15 Warr1024 yeah, I know 22:15 Warr1024 but there are some baseline standard things you can do that tend to work well enough on most platforms. 22:16 sapier I'm trying for a week now to get windows builds working .... 22:16 Warr1024 of course, I could just provide my portability patches to OpenBSD's ports collection just to fix OpenBSD, but as long as they don't break the other platforms, I think they'd be better for upstream. 22:16 Warr1024 Windows is broken? 22:16 sapier partly 22:16 Warr1024 wow, that's kinda surprising. 22:16 sapier I can't get localization work on vs2012 build 22:16 sapier mingw32 with current gettext is fine 22:17 sapier vs2010 seems to be fine too (last official minetest version) 22:17 Warr1024 why using VS? 22:17 sapier but gettext guys don't support vs any longer due to gpl licensing issues 22:18 Warr1024 most of the open-source ported-from-*n*x stuff I've seen out there tends to be built with cygwin or mingw. 22:18 Warr1024 Of course, the mingw stuff just works, while the cygwin stuff requires you to install tons of crap... 22:18 sapier mingw doesn't just work too ;-) 22:18 Warr1024 hm, yeah, I've had some minor dealings with it in the past 22:19 sapier still not having current vs support is an issue 22:19 Warr1024 I'm kind of hoping that OpenBSD support in minetest continues unofficially, at least on a "as long as there's somebody to test and submit patches" basis. 22:20 Warr1024 I can't imagine trying to get something from the not-originally-written-in-VS world into VS. 22:20 sapier it'd be silly not to include those patches 22:20 Warr1024 which patches? 22:20 sapier most oss libs work fine e.g. libogg vorbis zlib ... 22:20 sapier openbsd support patches 22:21 Warr1024 hypothetical ones, or specifically the pull req I submitted? 22:21 sapier generally speaking 22:23 Warr1024 If you've got time to review my pull req, it's #965. 22:25 Warr1024 as always, it's a rather conservative fix. 22:25 Warr1024 Not really urgent of course, but I just hope it doesn't get forgotten through the 0.4.8 release. 22:25 Warr1024 Wish I knew more about your Windows builds problem, but I suspect that all I can offer you are my condolences :-/ 22:31 ShadowNinja Warr1024: You should mention it in #minetest-dev. 22:31 ShadowNinja Too late. :-( 22:47 RealBadAngel btw, my two cats 22:47 RealBadAngel https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/s720x720/1391875_523778414381205_1796643179_n.jpg 23:02 VanessaE hi 23:08 arsdragonfly hey 23:28 Evergreen hey 23:28 kaeza sup Evergreen 23:29 Evergreen sup 23:29 Evergreen Anything happen while I was gone? 23:30 kaeza 0.4.8 was released 23:30 kaeza actually no :P 23:31 VanessaE thank G*d no 23:31 VanessaE 0.4.8 is nowhere near ready imho 23:31 VanessaE (but it'll go out the door anyway probably) 23:32 kaeza still, 0.4.7 is waaay too old as of now 23:32 kaeza maybe 0.4.7.1 :P 23:34 Evergreen Too much has happened between 0.4.7 stable and 0.4.7 dev 23:35 Evergreen All the people who don't know what github is are still waiting for 0.4.8. I agree with VanessaE though, it shouldn't be rushed 23:36 VanessaE mainly, there are crash bugs that need solved before it goes out 23:40 kaeza https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115531#p115531 23:40 kaeza bro, do you even spelling 23:48 VanessaE heh 23:56 VanessaE Evergreen: "Sorry about that, been lazy about working on the stalactites/stalagmites. I'm not sure when it will be done." 23:57 VanessaE get to work you lazy sod ;) 23:57 Evergreen lol