Time  Nick               Message
00:01 sokomine           hm, still fighting with my x configuration. either i get that horrible gnome/kde/whatever or i do get my loved icewm - sadly not in the right resultion
00:01 VanessaE           hang on a sec, arguing with scree
00:01 VanessaE           screen*
00:01 sokomine           oh, i can argue with screen for you, and you argue for me with the dte, ok? :)
00:01 PilzAdam           y no KDE?
00:01 sokomine           no
00:02 VanessaE           fuck it, I'll just tail the log.
00:02 VanessaE           ok, it's back up\
00:02 PilzAdam           sokomine, also, 800x600 FTW!
00:02 sokomine           i do use icewm. it's less annoying. can be operated with the keyboard and is able to display xterms on multiple virtual desktops. that's all it takes
00:02 sokomine           :-)
00:03 sokomine           at least this console font seems conftable
00:03 PilzAdam           you can play Diablo2 LOD on it
00:03 codedevil          how to add server to favorites?
00:03 sokomine           that happens automaticly, codedevil
00:03 PilzAdam           codedevil, it gets automatically added when you connect
00:03 PilzAdam           you can edit client/<something I cant remember>/favoriteserver.txt
00:04 PilzAdam           something I cant remember = serverlist
00:04 VanessaE           serverlist is useless though since it doesn't store passwords :(
00:05 sokomine           hm, ah, ok, and icewm now mirrors the display. not exactly what's desired. perhaps i ought to try my old xorg.conf
00:05 sokomine           at least you don't have to remember ports and ips anymore like with older mt versions
00:05 VanessaE           PilzAdam: water is behaving properly, but lava just doesn't wanna move.  maybe that value is also tied in somehow to liquids' viscosity?
00:06 codedevil          VanessaE: lava flows
00:06 khonkhortisan      I refuse to exit the client to add a name to an ip
00:06 VanessaE           damma, I lost my place
00:06 VanessaE           dammit*
00:06 PilzAdam           khonkhortisan, Lua menu will fix it
00:06 khonkhortisan      ok
00:07 PilzAdam           VanessaE, do you have the debug output compiled in now?
00:07 VanessaE           yes but I'm not seeing anything of interest.
00:10 PilzAdam           doesnt every client get errorstream messages?
00:10 VanessaE           I see no messages
00:11 codedevil          VanessaE: the problem is that it always animates the first blocks
00:11 codedevil          this is unfair
00:11 VanessaE           yes
00:11 VanessaE           that seems to be the case alright
00:11 codedevil          it should flow random blocks if the queue is too long
00:11 codedevil          PilzAdam: how to update my git working directory with your newest commits?
00:12 codedevil          PilzAdam: why you keep grieffing my buildings
00:12 codedevil          I though it's non griefing server
00:13 PilzAdam           it was ;-)
00:13 VanessaE           whoa, all of a sudden stuff just started flowing
00:13 VanessaE           what happened just now?
00:13 codedevil          removing/adding lava blocks below
00:13 VanessaE           ah
00:13 PilzAdam           are you sure you have the debug output compiled in?
00:13 codedevil          PilzAdam: stop griefing my buildings k?
00:14 VanessaE           yep, it's there
00:14 codedevil          VanessaE: can I get a protected zone on that server?
00:14 VanessaE           commit 446225607c5dd540c4a84696093ec5b0aaf24c70
00:14 VanessaE           Author: PilzAdam <pilzadam@minetest.net>
00:14 VanessaE           Date:   Sat Jun 8 23:58:41 2013 +0000
00:14 VanessaE           Add debug output
00:14 VanessaE           stupid bot.
00:14 PilzAdam           have you restarted the server after compiling?
00:15 VanessaE           yep, pretty sure I did.  lemme re-do that just to be sure
00:15 VanessaE           done and restarted.
00:16 PilzAdam           now trigger some liquid updates
00:17 VanessaE           nothin.
00:17 VanessaE           this isn't going into the log I guess?
00:19 PilzAdam           the liquids react normal, so keep triggering more updates
00:20 VanessaE           I'm not getting any related message at all
00:21 PilzAdam           whats the output of /set liquid
00:21 VanessaE           it is not set.
00:21 VanessaE           so I guess 500 or whatever you defauled to
00:21 VanessaE           defaulted*
00:21 PilzAdam           set it to 1
00:21 VanessaE           set.
00:22 VanessaE           water's still moving?
00:22 VanessaE           so it lava
00:22 VanessaE           sloooowly
00:22 VanessaE           is*
00:22 VanessaE           server load is up a bit, around 40% now, but that's probably people signing in/out
00:23 PilzAdam           set it to 0
00:23 VanessaE           set
00:23 PilzAdam           still flowing
00:23 VanessaE           stuff is still moving
00:23 PilzAdam           man, what the fuck
00:23 PilzAdam           just recheck that use my code
00:24 VanessaE           hm
00:24 VanessaE           vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-Textures-and-mods/minetest_engine$ grep -i "breaking" /usr/bin/minetestserver
00:24 VanessaE           nothing.
00:25 VanessaE           oh you son of a ...
00:25 Exio               /usr
00:25 VanessaE           the fucking thing installed to /usr/local/bin
00:25 Exio               wat
00:25 Exio               hahahahahaha
00:25 VanessaE           WHY is this default on debian systems!?
00:26 PilzAdam           1) use run in place
00:26 PilzAdam           2) done
00:26 Exio               ^ exactly
00:27 VanessaE           vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-Textures-and-mods/minetest_engine$ grep -i "breaking" /usr/bin/minetestserver
00:27 VanessaE           Binary file /usr/bin/minetestserver matches
00:27 VanessaE           better.
00:27 VanessaE           and it's back up.  and now I know for sure it's running your patches :)
00:27 VanessaE           20:27:43: ERROR[ServerThread]: Breaking liquid update loop at 6 iterations; TODO: 5
00:27 PilzAdam           finally
00:28 VanessaE           26...50...83...105...112...117...118...127...131...133...146
00:28 VanessaE           it's counting upward at a rare of about 20/sec
00:28 VanessaE           rate*
00:28 VanessaE           and it's peaked at 500.
00:29 VanessaE           server load is random as usual
00:29 VanessaE           18% to 40%, seems to want to hover at around 25%
00:29 PilzAdam           set it to 2000 or so
00:29 VanessaE           set.
00:29 Exio               i don't know what is really wrong with something using 100% of the cpu
00:30 PilzAdam           now find a value that doesnt increase your cpu load too much
00:30 VanessaE           CPU load went down to about 15-20%
00:30 VanessaE           iterations are at around 200 now
00:31 VanessaE           server load is about 20-25%
00:31 VanessaE           whoa, 50-60% there
00:31 PilzAdam           200 oO
00:31 VanessaE           1200-odd now
00:32 VanessaE           server's in the 50-60% CPU range at the moment
00:32 VanessaE           77%
00:32 VanessaE           84%
00:32 VanessaE           it's spiking high now
00:32 PilzAdam           so, 1200 is the limit?
00:32 VanessaE           I think between 500-1000 is a good reasonable limit
00:33 VanessaE           let's see what happens at 750
00:33 VanessaE           seems to be about 50-60% at this setting
00:33 VanessaE           liquids are still flowing, so I can probably turn it down some
00:34 VanessaE           gotta wait for people to stop joining/leaving the server so I can see where it really sits
00:34 PilzAdam           liquids need some seconds to react at this setting
00:34 VanessaE           500 seems to be too low
00:35 sokomine           quite a lot of load
00:35 PilzAdam           the current master hardcoded value is 10000
00:35 VanessaE           let's go with 1000 as the default, and randomize the block flowing order
00:36 VanessaE           (as codedevil suggested)
00:36 PilzAdam           why would you randomize it?
00:36 PilzAdam           its a queue
00:36 VanessaE           in fact, let's see how it behaves with a value of 500 and randomized blocks
00:36 VanessaE           because if the queue gets full, nothing else flows, so the queue needs to be filled randomly
00:36 PilzAdam           the queue cant be full
00:37 VanessaE           ack, server CPU is spiking to 100% now
00:37 PilzAdam           it always updates the first 500 (or whatever you set) nodes
00:37 VanessaE           exactly.
00:37 VanessaE           it should be populated from randomly-chosen blocks
00:37 PilzAdam           if they want to enqueue themselves again, the are at the end again
00:37 PilzAdam           +y
00:37 VanessaE           it's set to 500 now, btw
00:38 VanessaE           CPu load is spiking between 50 and 100%
00:39 VanessaE           just noticed the "TODO" count hitting around 2000 just now
00:40 codedevil          shouldn't lava set trees on fire?
00:40 VanessaE           ordinarily it would
00:40 VanessaE           but I have fire disabled.
00:40 PilzAdam           /set disable_fire false
00:40 VanessaE           PilzAdam: actually I just don't have the fire mod installed
00:40 VanessaE           (this predates the disable_fire setting)
00:41 PilzAdam           anyway, its waaaaaaay to late here
00:41 PilzAdam           good night
00:42 VanessaE           I wish hadn't signed out yet,
00:44 VanessaE           (I was gonna advise him to clean up those commits enough to push them to master real quick)
00:44 VanessaE           ok... a value of 500 seems to be good, for my server anyway.
00:44 VanessaE           it's staying under 40% most of the time now, which is where I prefer it to be :)
00:44 VanessaE           we need to work on multithreading anything and everything we can (that would benefit from it)
00:47 Exio               are you sure?
00:47 Exio               i'm not sure how that would work with scripts using flowing liquids and "so on"
00:48 VanessaE           well
00:48 VanessaE           something has to be done anyway
00:48 VanessaE           besides, nothing says it has to affect Lua
00:48 VanessaE           holy shit!  20:48:44: ERROR[ServerThread]: Breaking liquid update loop at 500 iterations; TODO: 62878
00:48 VanessaE           good thing I capped it at 500
00:49 VanessaE           68278...96367....108069!\
00:50 VanessaE           holy shit
00:50 VanessaE           server's at 100% CPU now
00:50 VanessaE           but it's responding
00:50 VanessaE           slowly.
00:50 sokomine           uh oh. here in germany, we had a few real floodings recently. need a bit of water? :-)
00:50 VanessaE           119000 now
00:51 VanessaE           143000
00:52 VanessaE           247000
00:52 VanessaE           we have a problem here.
00:53 VanessaE           258000
00:53 VanessaE           and the server's jammed at 100%.
00:53 codedevil          VanessaE: why it's at 100% of it stops the updates
00:53 VanessaE           268000 and a brief flurry of updates and still locked at 100%
00:53 sokomine           sounds really bad if there's so much waiting to float around
00:54 VanessaE           278k now
00:54 codedevil          maybe it rained in the hills
00:55 VanessaE           306k
00:55 VanessaE           all of a sudden it knocked 80k off the TODO count at the moment it let me in
00:56 VanessaE           and right back up again.  313k
00:56 VanessaE           something else must be slowing it down
00:56 codedevil          what your computer is doing?
00:57 VanessaE           nothing.
00:57 codedevil          whats the hardware
00:57 VanessaE           I'm just sitting here watching the debug output
00:57 codedevil          would be good to debug who add's stuff to that queue
00:57 VanessaE           no unusual disk activity, server's using about 240MB, and sitting at 100% CPU
00:59 VanessaE           405k now
00:59 codedevil          Question
00:59 codedevil          what the fuck is 'evil shovel'
00:59 VanessaE           it's something Nekogloop originally created
00:59 VanessaE           not sure what's so special about it, it's just another shovel with a silly name :)
01:00 VanessaE           server finally dropped to a reasonable CPU load, but has 500k stacked up in TODO now.
01:00 Exio               what are you doing for "triggering that"?
01:00 VanessaE           nothing, I'm just standing at the spawn
01:00 Exio               codedevil: you?
01:00 VanessaE           back to 100% again
01:01 VanessaE           and back to 20-40%
01:01 VanessaE           it's up and down and going batshit insane :)
01:01 Exio               make_cpu_usage(random())
01:01 Exio               :D
01:01 VanessaE           no one has signed in or out since I last signed on
01:01 Exio               VanessaE: just doing, nothing?
01:02 VanessaE           I'm just standing here, occasionally looking in different directions
01:02 VanessaE           560k now
01:02 Exio               but i mean, only you doing nothing? wow
01:02 VanessaE           well there are two others on
01:02 VanessaE           twoelk and codedevil
01:03 codedevil          yes?
01:03 Exio               what are you doing?
01:03 codedevil          Im mining blocks
01:03 Exio               something with water?
01:03 codedevil          no
01:03 Exio               k
01:03 VanessaE           codedevil: just routine digging?
01:03 codedevil          with my evil pi
01:03 codedevil          with my evil pix
01:03 VanessaE           are you anywhere near that big fountain?
01:05 VanessaE           I set the queue to 20000 and suddenly the todo emptied
01:05 VanessaE           (set it back to 250 already)
01:06 VanessaE           so clearly there needs to be a way for that todo queue to just empty out from time to time
01:06 Exio               maybe you can set it to a lower number
01:06 Exio               and make liquid_update = 0.25
01:06 Exio               or so
01:06 VanessaE           maybe every few seconds it should get reset to 0 if it's above some amount
01:06 Exio               so the "same work" gets shared in the single thread
01:06 VanessaE           liquid_update
01:06 VanessaE           ?
01:06 Exio               the time between liquid updates
01:06 codedevil          VanessaE: no, im far from liquids.
01:07 codedevil          unless there are lava in caves nearby
01:07 khonkhortisan      print(dump({[{x=3}] = 4})) minetest/bin/../builtin/misc_helpers.lua:60: attempt to concatenate local 'k' (a table value)
01:08 VanessaE           khonkhortisan: oh that's about as useful as tits on a bull :)
01:09 khonkhortisan      t[#t+1] = "" .. k .. " = " .. dump(v, dumped)
01:09 khonkhortisan      easy enough to fix
01:14 codedevil          VanessaE: can I get protection for my region?
01:14 VanessaE           sure
01:14 VanessaE           coords?
01:14 codedevil          my current location
01:15 codedevil          20000,0,20000  +/- 50
01:15 VanessaE           ok
01:16 codedevil          you know what would make your server x3 more interesting imo?
01:16 VanessaE           what>
01:16 khonkhortisan      merge this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/764
01:16 codedevil          turn off inventory, so people have actually to get/make materials
01:16 codedevil          then making a diamond something is really impressive
01:16 Exio               codedevil: survival instead of creative; you mean
01:17 khonkhortisan      no inventory means no materials ever
01:17 codedevil          Exio: yea
01:17 codedevil          khonkhortisan: mining...?
01:17 khonkhortisan      "creative inventory"
01:17 khonkhortisan      you mine, it falls into your pocket, you never see it again
01:17 VanessaE           ok, your area is set.  I've placed yellow wool columns to mark it.
01:18 codedevil          k
01:18 codedevil          do we have any blocks that do cool stuff?
01:18 codedevil          even cactus does no damage..
01:18 khonkhortisan      mesecons do cool stuff
01:18 Exio               haha
01:18 Exio               VanessaE: "/set liquid 30000000" or so
01:18 Exio               with liquid_update = 0
01:18 Exio               it is insta-flowing for everything :D
01:18 khonkhortisan      There is no solid node that is climbable from the next node over
01:18 VanessaE           why?
01:19 VanessaE           that'll surely kill the server too :)
01:19 codedevil          maybe that is idea for another server.
01:19 codedevil          anyone knows what evil box does?
01:19 VanessaE           evil block does nothing.  it's decorative and emits a small amount of light
01:20 codedevil          but it also emits a sound it seems
01:20 VanessaE           I've never noticed a sound from it?
01:20 VanessaE           nope, no special sound in the code.
01:20 VanessaE           something else is making the sound you're hearing.
01:21 codedevil          where you have the code for blocks?
01:22 VanessaE           it's in gloopblocks/init.lua
01:22 VanessaE           http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4019
01:22 Exio               well
01:23 Exio               VanessaE: what the "server" does with the flowing liquids is something pseudo-multithreading ;P
01:23 Exio               multisingle
01:23 VanessaE           Exio: if it doesn't propagate to other cores, it ain't truly multi-threaded :)
01:24 Exio               "pseudo" and "multisingle"
01:24 codedevil          nice.. uhm... avatar
01:24 VanessaE           ?
01:27 codedevil          on the forums
01:28 codedevil          now this might be offtopic, but I get that your spause supports the invasion of iraq?
01:29 codedevil          if that is the case, big thank you from all the raped&murdered children. At least the invisible Weapons of mAss destruction where found... ;)
01:30 codedevil          please keep supporting when my country is also being destroy^H "liberated" one day
01:33 * codedevil        thought even most dumb fascist idiots would by now realize in general murder and starting war is bad thing
01:46 thefamilygrog66    howdy folks
01:59 Octupus            Hi
02:02 Octupus            No one here
02:02 ShadowNinja        Hello!
02:03 khonkhortisan      "howdy folks" "Hi"
02:03 ShadowNinja        Octupus: Sometimes there is a lot of activity, sometimes not...
02:04 Octupus            Yes ik I am a 2 year member of this irc channel but I haven't been very active
02:16 thefamilygrog66    Maybe I'm just slow tonight, but I don't really understand most of the comments on my new mod's thread... o.O
02:16 Octupus            Can I read un
02:17 thefamilygrog66    http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6214
02:19 Octupus            I understand them perfectly
02:20 thefamilygrog66    Okay, why did the first reply "comment out the part that makes the egg appear randomly"? I'm not sure which "original" they're referring to.
02:22 Octupus            Comment stands for take out and original means probably another spawning egg mod out there in the forums
02:23 VanessaE           probably the mobs mod jordan4ibanez originally wrote
02:24 VanessaE           (which peaceful_npc was taken from)
02:24 thefamilygrog66    Okay, but I still don't understand why they would remove the part of the mod that produces one of the crucial ingredients for the rest of the mod to function.
02:25 thefamilygrog66    Unless you're playing in creative mode, it doesn't make sense to me...
02:26 thefamilygrog66    Also, my mod only works with PilzAdam's mod.
02:37 Octupus            Can't help you with that I'm just here to help I forgot everything il about code
02:41 Octupus            Maybe the commenter doesn't want it able to spawn from anyone only for mods/admin so it doesn't become to much of a problem
02:44 thefamilygrog66    Yeah, that kinda makes sense. My son was playing minecraft today and showed me the spawning eggs in that, so I figured I'd attempt to do something similar in minetest.
02:46 Octupus            Ah
02:46 thefamilygrog66    If owners already have mobs appearing in their world, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make if people could craft them with randomly spawning eggs. Aside from placing them in other players' homes, as one commenter mentioned, I guess.
02:49 codedevil          how you use the generators/batteries?
02:49 codedevil          is mese cone the new redstone?
02:50 khonkhortisan      minecraft is to redstone as minetest is to mesecons
02:53 codedevil          so I places coal-generator and musicbox
02:54 codedevil          placed mesecons under, but they seem not connected
02:54 codedevil          khonkhortisan:  can you look? im at VanessaE's server near spawn
02:54 khonkhortisan      I think a generator is from technic, which has its own power system. Mesecons are a logic system.
02:55 codedevil          how to connect things generaotr-battery
02:55 codedevil          and generator(?)-musicbox
03:02 khonkhortisan      there's a chainlink door that I can't close while holding a node
03:07 thefamilygrog66    homedecor, khonkhortisan?
03:08 VanessaE           is your copy up-to-date?
03:11 khonkhortisan      my copy? :P it's your copy!
03:12 khonkhortisan      node_ownership interferes
03:17 VanessaE           :P
03:17 VanessaE           oh that would do it then
03:18 khonkhortisan      but I can open it just fine
03:19 khonkhortisan      the place I would build if the door didn't steal the right click moves in and out of the owned area - but with the door stealing it, it wouldn't be placed anyway - but node_ownership steals it first
03:23 ungali_mobile      af
03:23 ungali_mobile      scratch that
03:23 khonkhortisan      fa - lala
03:23 khonkhortisan      lalala la
03:24 ungali_mobile      la la?
03:25 thefamilygrog66    deck the halls
03:25 khonkhortisan      yeah
03:25 Octupus            The halls
03:26 Octupus            With bounds of holly
03:26 ungali_mobile      trim the evening gowns a fully
03:26 Octupus            Fa lalala
03:27 ungali_mobile      la la la la
03:27 * Octupus          forgot the rest
03:28 codedevil          in technic plugin, you know how to play music?
03:28 ungali_mobile      you just sing it
03:29 codedevil          ungali_mobile: ?
03:29 codedevil          ungali_mobile: look at spawn at vanesas server
03:29 VanessaE           codedevil: new picture taken today, in case you're curious:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/extra/2013-06-08-0004a.jpg
03:29 VanessaE           (finally got the guts to update it)
03:29 VanessaE           offtopic ^^^
03:31 codedevil          ah ok
03:32 codedevil          why the music player doesnt play?
03:32 codedevil          on spwan
03:33 VanessaE           no music files.
03:33 VanessaE           I never loaded any
03:33 codedevil          oh
03:33 codedevil          well, load some
03:33 codedevil          there are not copyrighted files on the Internet
03:34 codedevil          so that the brave Our Troops will not kill us too if we play them ;)
03:34 codedevil          copyleft music, etc
03:36 VanessaE           music is bandwidth-expensive.
03:38 thefamilygrog66    is it possible to use midi files, VanessaE, or just ogg format?
03:38 VanessaE           only ogg.
03:38 thefamilygrog66    'cause midi files would use up a heckuva lot less bandwidth...
03:38 thefamilygrog66    drag
03:40 thefamilygrog66    I'd like to have a server that played only the music from Forbidden Forest, just to keep the players anxious :)
03:40 NakedFury          always play stressful music?
03:40 thefamilygrog66    joking, that game used to freak me out as  a kid
03:41 thefamilygrog66    do you remember that one V?
03:41 NakedFury          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpkc7GvvrdM
03:41 VanessaE           vaguely but I never played it
03:42 NakedFury          click the link familygrogg
03:42 thefamilygrog66    Haha, that's the one!
03:43 khonkhortisan      love the antialiasing
03:43 khonkhortisan      that's so old
03:43 * thefamilygrog66  is so old
03:52 * VanessaE         pokes thefamilygrog66
03:52 thefamilygrog66    is this thing on?
03:52 thefamilygrog66    haha
03:52 VanessaE           no ;)
04:22 VanessaE           bbl
04:23 khonkhortisan      21:22:29: ERROR[main]: A serialization error occurred:
04:23 khonkhortisan      21:22:29: ERROR[main]: Player::deSerialize(): PlayerArgsEnd not found
04:23 khonkhortisan      21:22:29: ERROR[main]: The server is probably  running a different version of Minetest.
04:25 khonkhortisan      blanked players/singleplayer
04:58 khonkhortisan      aha! I was defining table.copy in commonlib, but it was overrided by a globally leaked version in worldedit!
05:07 khonkhortisan      Now I know why it's a bad idea to extend standard namespaces like table
05:49 sfan5              hello
05:50 MarkTwain          Hi
06:14 MarkTwain          Hello everyone!
06:15 MarkTwain          I have irssi
06:16 MarkTwain          PilzAdam, everyone else who bannedme
06:16 MarkTwain          I am in the console and find it much better than webchat :)
06:16 MarkTwain          I need a better browser that elinks though
06:27 reactor            Hello.
06:28 reactor            I wonder, will it run well CPU rendered?
06:28 VanessaE           depends on how fast your box is but usually not too well
06:28 VanessaE           (most 3d games won't)
06:29 reactor            Mkay. I think I'll try adding it to pkgsrc.
06:59 reactor            Eh. libxxf86vm.
07:06 Tsproggy           Hello all, this is the first time I've heard about minetest
07:06 MarkTwain          PING
07:06 Tsproggy           PONG
07:07 MarkTwain          Hello there newcomer
07:07 Tsproggy           Hi
07:07 VanessaE           hi
07:07 MarkTwain          Not so new, not like a n00b :)
07:07 Tsproggy           I was going to ask if minetest's api would let me mod in C or C#?
07:07 MarkTwain          No, just lua
07:07 VanessaE           only Lua.
07:07 Tsproggy           ooh, that's still great.
07:07 MarkTwain          Maybe c for client
07:07 Tsproggy           awesome, thanks
07:07 Tsproggy           I like Lua anyway :)
07:07 VanessaE           but C++ patches to the engine are welcome
07:07 MarkTwain          however i am no expert
07:07 Tsproggy           meh, I could do C++ but I like C and C#
07:07 Tsproggy           most comfortable with C# :/
07:08 VanessaE           if you see something Lua can't do efficiently, discuss it with the core devs and see what they say. \
07:08 Tsproggy           nice, will do
07:08 Tsproggy           Eh, is there a building height restriction in minetest?
07:08 VanessaE           you won't find any C# stuff here :)
07:08 Tsproggy           haha
07:08 VanessaE           nope; the map stops at just shy of +31000 though
07:08 Tsproggy           awesome
07:09 Tsproggy           eh, what about gravity?
07:09 VanessaE           (and goes down to just shy of -31000)
07:09 VanessaE           gravity is the same at all heights
07:09 Tsproggy           Oh yea, I'll be definatly making something for this haha
07:09 VanessaE           but it can be controlled
07:09 reactor            Stratospheric flights.
07:10 Tsproggy           I switched over to Linux today for the final time :) trying to find a project. Think I found it!
07:10 Tsproggy           Love that my distro came with an IRC client built in also heh
07:10 Tsproggy           Thank you for answering my questions I really appreciate it. I'm going to start tinkering!
07:11 VanessaE           XChat Is Your Friend â„¢
07:21 reactor            Ehm.
07:21 reactor            If the package is supposed to fetch sources, is github the only option?
07:21 reactor            Are there snapshots of certain version?
07:21 VanessaE           I believe so
07:21 VanessaE           (github that is).. and that's the best option
07:22 VanessaE           there are version tags in the repo though
07:22 reactor            Besides, there are two distfiles, as far as I get it.
07:22 khonkhortisan      you can specify a commit/tag when getting sources
07:22 MarkTwain          Anyone use E to fly down?
07:23 VanessaE           I do/.
07:23 khonkhortisan      I use that button on the keyboard, yes.
07:25 reactor            So... hmm. I'm rather confused. It seems the package system is only capable of getting one distfile a time.
07:27 reactor            I get it it's not possible to build them separately?
07:27 VanessaE           built what separately?
07:28 VanessaE           build*
07:28 reactor            Rather, the engine without the game is, but the game without the engine is not.
07:28 reactor            The... packages.
07:28 VanessaE           the "game" is just a bunch of Lua code, it doesn't have to be compiled.
07:28 khonkhortisan      but it will be compiled
07:28 reactor            Oh.
07:28 khonkhortisan      as soon as you start a server
07:29 VanessaE           the engine is as easy as,  git clone (url w/commit ID here); cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0; make (insert extra flags here); make install
07:29 reactor            Interesting. So, it's possible to put it there after builingd?
07:29 VanessaE           oh sure
07:29 reactor            Good.
07:29 VanessaE           mods and game content are routinely done that way
07:29 reactor            About git clone thing... as far as my experience goes, there is no such feature in pkgsrc
07:30 VanessaE           well I guess you can also download a ZIP of the sources from github
07:30 reactor            yep, I do that
07:30 VanessaE           same difference either way though
07:39 VanessaE           bbl
07:41 Issa               Hello World !
07:41 reactor            eHll ooWlr d
07:41 reactor            !
07:42 sfan5              !rev Hello World
07:42 MinetestBot        dlroW olleH
07:43 Issa               on this topic --> http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=93983#p93983
07:43 Issa               someon show a generation maps
07:44 Issa               a code for generation maps, where i can add it to generate it oon my map ?
07:56 MinetestBot        /me is bored
07:57 reactor            that... looked Spanish.
07:57 reactor            Well, it doesn't send commands... I guess.
07:57 reactor            !rev /quit
07:57 MinetestBot        tiuq/
07:57 reactor            oops.
07:57 MinetestBot        /po john_minetest
07:57 reactor            !rev tiuq/
07:57 MinetestBot        /quit
07:58 MinetestBot        /op john_minetest
07:58 reactor            Ha.
07:58 reactor            !rev rotcaer o+ edom/
07:58 MinetestBot        /mode +o reactor
07:58 reactor            rotcaer.
08:00 khonkhortisan      !rev nasitrohknohk kcik/
08:00 MinetestBot        /kick khonkhortisan
08:00 reactor            !help
08:00 MinetestBot        https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
08:00 reactor            Oh yeah.
08:00 khonkhortisan      !rev toBtseteniM iH
08:00 MinetestBot        Hi MinetestBot
08:01 reactor            Hmm.
08:01 reactor            Will it build w/o gmake?
08:14 Issa               WTF
08:14 Calinou            FTW
08:25 reactor            IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR... if I knew what that is.
08:26 Issa               if someone wants listen the best skyrim songs cover go here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSLPH9d-jsI&list=PLzZFPBWYtRrTk3DOQMhM0QLKjD6dTgJ5J
08:30 reactor            Hmm.
08:30 reactor            So, could anyone explain where to look for include dirs in cmake files?
08:37 reactor            It seems to look in the wrong place.
08:45 MarkTwain          Hello everyone!
08:46 reactor            Hell.o
08:47 reactor            So... anyone familiar with CMAKE?
08:49 daspork_           reactor: depends on why you are asking. for troubleshooting the build I cant help you. Using cmake to build something I might.
08:49 reactor            oh
08:49 reactor            mkay
08:51 daspork_           If you are just trying to add an aditional include path, iirc it handles cflags passed to it like any other tool. search for cmake include directories.
08:51 reactor            let me see
08:52 daspork_           actually as i typed that in google a suggested search on the top tagged "from the command line" on the end
08:53 daspork_           You can also set thing like this with ccmake or the gui.
08:54 Issa               how do a screenshot ion game ?
08:54 Issa               please
08:54 daspork_           f12?
08:55 daspork_           so says the summary when you search for minetest screenshot.
08:58 daspork_           reactor: luck with -INCLUDE=/path?
08:58 MarkTwain          #include ?
08:59 reactor            Hmm, let me try this.
09:00 daspork_           MarkTwain: I have no idea what you said little man, but it touched my heart.
09:00 MarkTwain          lol
09:00 MarkTwain          C++ u using?
09:00 MarkTwain          i think its #include but dont quote me
09:00 daspork_           nay
09:02 reactor            daspork_: no luck eh
09:02 daspork_           Was very lazily trying to help him specify aditional C flags to cmake. I cant get my heart in it though as I have never been able to explain the use of autools or any other build system to someone who didnt already know how it worked.
09:02 reactor            oh. wait a second
09:02 reactor            not yet
09:04 reactor            yeah, no luck
09:04 reactor            if you mean passing it as an argument to CMAKE
09:07 daspork_           well according to the docs "CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH='/crazy/path' cmake .
09:07 reactor            trying...
09:08 Issa               well
09:08 Issa               done
09:09 reactor            Hmm, still no luck
09:09 Issa               what the word for byzarrre in english
09:09 daspork_           well I tested it and it works so good luck :P
09:09 reactor            Issa: "bizzare"
09:09 Issa               wired
09:09 Issa               wyred
09:09 Issa               somthing not normal
09:11 daspork_           reactor: I am curious why and what you have in non standard locations
09:11 reactor            well
09:11 reactor            they're standard... at least in this system
09:11 reactor            I have most includes in /usr/pkg/include
09:12 reactor            The problem seems to be only with irrlicht
09:12 Issa               it"s dark but see this map generation of minetest
09:12 Issa               http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/screenshot48702013.png/
09:12 Issa               a big whole
09:12 reactor            ...or it's just the first one he encounters it with, and stops, not revealing the rest
09:12 reactor            s/he/it/
09:12 reactor            d
09:13 reactor            ...or it's just the first one it encounters, and stops, not revealing the rest
09:13 reactor            pardon my bad English
09:15 daspork_           And you being purposefully evasive about what system you are using, or is it like lfs or something?
09:16 reactor            No.
09:17 reactor            Well, I don't usually tell the OS name if I'm not explicitly asked, what you've just done. It's NetBSD.
09:17 reactor            If you wonder about the reasoning behind running it, well. I'm really into its documentation.
09:17 daspork_           Well making someone who is trying to help you grag info out of you is prob not the greatest strat.
09:17 reactor            I'm sorry about that.
09:17 daspork_           The assumptions are all yours, im using pcbsd....
09:18 reactor            What packages system?
09:18 reactor            (what I'm trying to do right now is adding a package to pkgsrc)
09:19 daspork_           I generally either build ports with the pbi builder or I install in my home directory. As a general rule I dont touch the / after install
09:19 reactor            yep, same here, everything beside the base system goes into /usr
09:20 reactor            or, rather, /usr/pkg/
09:20 reactor            hence the include path
09:20 Issa               Fuuuuuuuu
09:20 Issa               i dead and i lost all my stufffffff
09:20 reactor            That's one strange problem, for pkgsrc usually takes care of the include paths.
09:20 Issa               fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
09:21 Issa               sorry
09:21 daspork_           Well you say it cant find the path, but you havent said if thats in the generation of the makefile or the build or what
09:23 daspork_           I dont even know if bsd is claimed to be supported.
09:23 daspork_           I use a gentoo jail for this crap.
09:24 reactor            it's cmake that can't find the icludes
09:25 reactor            includes*
09:25 daspork_           well as mentioned 'ccmake .' if its installed will let you edit the paths in a curses gui.
09:26 reactor            hmm
09:26 daspork_           I dont think most bsd flavours come with bash as defaut shell and I have no idea how other things handle env vars
09:26 reactor            my goal is automating the build
09:27 reactor            I have bash, not as build shell, though
09:27 daspork_           whats a 'build shell'
09:27 reactor            I mean, eh.
09:27 reactor            the build system uses sh
09:29 daspork_           I have no doubt that you would prob have already solved it had you started at the top of the docs and started reading though :P
09:30 daspork_           GL homes
09:32 reactor            yep
09:33 reactor            I guess I'm gonna immerse myself in CMAKE docs then... eh.
09:34 daspork_           heh, well all you need to do is figure out how to add aditional CFLAGS='-I/path' :P
09:34 reactor            well, I've tried that
09:35 reactor            but CFLAGS affect CC, not CMAKE
09:35 daspork_           Well if the path was added and it didnt work, you have other problems
09:35 reactor            and CMAKE will still fail, and make the build process fail, too
09:36 reactor            guess I'll have to patch some of the files in cmake/
09:36 daspork_           Well CPPFLAGS or whatever is what you need, but I think most respect both.
09:37 reactor            also, if you wonder what certain var is failing: IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR
09:37 daspork_           yeah you can :P
09:37 reactor            after all, most packages in pkgsrc contain two-three patches
09:38 daspork_           See im waxing and waning on wanting to help. Im afraid anything I do is gonna lead to more questions cause if you havent searched for cmake verbose I question if you can complete the task (no offense intended)
09:39 reactor            Yep, I'm rather new.
09:40 daspork_           well typing 'man cmake' is a good start
09:40 daspork_           '/' opens a search
09:41 reactor            yep, been there
09:41 reactor            cmake seems a whole new language to learn, so I think the thing's gonna be stalled till I have a bigger chunk of time to dedicate
09:42 daspork_           well if setting the env var CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH doesnt do it for you, your problem lies in the path you are specifying or something else
09:44 daspork_           or the CMakeLists is just horrible (I looked at for 3 secs and closed it as fast as I could)
09:45 reactor            They're pretty confusing, to say the lease.
09:45 reactor            s/se/st/
09:48 reactor            Hmm.
09:48 reactor            Got something.
09:48 daspork_           Well you have compounding problems. You are using an odd platform without the skill to conform to it. Its a reductive answer but use something with round edges.
09:49 reactor            Well, I've been using it successfully for almost a year.
09:50 reactor            No problems whatsoever, it's just developing for it I'm new to.
09:52 daspork_           I mean here is a for instance. The netbsd docs say the default shell is csh for users and ksh for root :P
09:52 reactor            oh yeah, all I needed is the -D arg
09:52 reactor            no no
09:52 reactor            not always
09:52 reactor            it's set according to your preferences in sysinst
09:53 reactor            may be sh, csh or ksh
09:53 reactor            anything else is installed from packages
09:53 reactor            not sure about ksh, though
09:54 daspork_           do you know what default means?
09:54 reactor            set by default in /etc/passwd
09:54 reactor            if wrong, I don't.
09:55 daspork_           no i asked if you knew what the word default means.
09:55 reactor            Ah.
09:55 daspork_           Something that cant be changed I dont think could technically have a default. So I now surmise you changed you shell to a featureless shell on purpose?
09:56 reactor            When something is used for some task, when nothing is explicitly chosen to be used for that.
09:56 reactor            Then they say it's used by default.
09:57 reactor            I know what default means, can't explain, though, being limited by my English.
09:57 reactor            No, sh is used by default for compatibility reasons.
09:57 daspork_           No thats aplicable, if not set otherwise thats whats used.
09:57 reactor            Beside, bash is bigger.
09:57 reactor            Yes, exactly what I meant, daspork_.
09:58 daspork_           No thats what I said and you explained to me it could be changed. but anyway
09:58 reactor            I only use bash for interactive sessions.
09:59 daspork_           So you were typing these commands into a script?
10:03 reactor            no.
10:03 daspork_           ok just asking.
10:03 reactor            Man, it's the buildsystem that performas all these commands for me.
10:03 reactor            I just gotta give it proper information.
10:04 reactor            build system*
10:04 daspork_           So you were using bash in an interactive session to issue these commands
10:04 reactor            yes
10:04 * daspork_         shakes his head.
10:04 reactor            no diff
10:04 reactor            env vars in bash and sh
10:05 daspork_           Yeah none, but thats not what you told me when I asked.
10:05 reactor            well, I aren't using env
10:05 reactor            instead, the -D arg
10:06 daspork_           yeah I saw it in the man page you said you read, but I wasnt sure how it effected to build.
10:07 daspork_           Well I dont know what not using env is....
10:09 daspork_           anyway I was able to point the minetest build to a custom build of irr in ~/.local with the env var. /me shrugs
10:13 Issa               player  move too fast resetinf position
10:13 Issa               how stop this message please ?
10:14 reactor            daspork_: yep, guess it needed a cache entry rather than an env var.
10:14 reactor            gotta run, see you in some hours
10:14 daspork_           No both work, you have a busted env
10:14 daspork_           and you are welcome for wasting my time with icomplete and wrong information.
10:15 daspork_           And I declare im helping no one else. :P
10:15 MarkTwain          Hello
10:17 MarkTwain          How do i set a message?
10:20 Morrolan           A part message? Most clients support '/part #channel message_goes_here'. And most clients also allow you to choose a default message.
10:21 MarkTwain          HELLO!!
10:21 MarkTwain          Did it work?
10:29 MarkTwain          john_minetest
10:29 MarkTwain          Can you suggest me some mods?
10:30 MarkTwain          in the [money, skins, building_blocks] category
10:30 Morrolan           If you wanted 'HELLO!!' to be your part message then yes, it worked.
10:30 MarkTwain          okay, good
10:31 MarkTwain          OMPLDR
10:31 MarkTwain          and sboots are a bit wrong
10:31 MarkTwain          i have 2 commands to kill people
10:33 MarkTwain          Whats the 'client' folder for
10:33 MarkTwain          okay
10:56 sfan5              aaand I crashed chrome again by dragging a tab
10:58 Taoki              Anyone know why old mods are apparently no longer listed and I get an error on existing world they can no longer be loaded?
10:58 Taoki              I have them in mods/minetest/mod_folder
10:59 sfan5              Taoki: do you use 0.4.7?
10:59 Taoki              sfan5: Latest GIT
10:59 sfan5              so, yes
10:59 Taoki              What needs to be changed?
10:59 sfan5              mods are now in mods/ not in mods/<gameid>
10:59 Taoki              Hmmm. How are they separated per game then?
11:03 Taoki              Also: Mods that worked are now getting this error: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=8Azc5SqC
11:04 PilzAdam           Hello everyone!
11:04 Taoki              hi
11:04 Taoki              sfan5: Any idea what that one is caused by?
11:05 PilzAdam           Taoki, add default to depends.txt of the mod
11:06 Taoki              Thanks, I didn't have a depends.txt so that's why
11:33 Zeg9               Hi john_minetest, PilzAdam
11:34 Taoki              For everyone who agreed with having the Moonflower in Minetest: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/175
11:35 Zeg9               Is there any poll about adding it somewhere?
11:36 Taoki              Dunno. Anyway I think it's a nice addition and could go well.
11:37 Taoki              RBA spoke with the devs and told me they agree with adding it. I think it's a nice idea hence why I implement it :)
11:38 PilzAdam           we do not agree with adding it
11:39 PilzAdam           read the logs of -dev
11:39 PilzAdam           bbl
11:39 Zeg9               Or most likely: you do not agree with adding it
11:40 Taoki              hehe
11:40 Taoki              Prolly old logs, couldn't find them
11:40 Taoki              For some reason I'm not surprised, even if I can't think what there wouldn't be to like
11:41 Taoki              Anyway, the commit to adapt it with Flowers mod is there, so the other devs can take the choice they wish
11:42 Taoki              Most people seem to like it too
11:43 Zeg9               http://poll.pollcode.com/fne2o
11:44 Zeg9               dont think much people will vote there, but well, thats a try...
11:53 MarkTwain          I need a mod for a castle
11:53 MarkTwain          An old fashioned castl
11:56 Taoki              I have a node which shows a formspec when you right-click it. Is there a way to make that require a privillege, and when the user doesn't have it make him get a message instead of the form-spec?
11:56 Taoki              *Right-click it from in-world as a node
11:57 MarkTwain          if minetest.check_privs(priv=true) or simething#
11:59 Zeg9               Taoki: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1024
11:59 Taoki              Thanks. Question is, how do I bind a formspec to it? That's defined with the node and constant
12:00 Taoki              meta:set_string("formspec", ...)
12:00 Zeg9               locked chests use minetest.show_formspec
12:00 Zeg9               https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1099
12:00 Taoki              ^ In the node's definition
12:00 Taoki              Yeah, don't think I can use that in my case
12:00 Zeg9               The formspec in meta is available to all players
12:01 MarkTwain          if check_privs then
12:01 Taoki              I had a label in the formspec which I modify dynamically. Will see if that still works
12:01 MarkTwain          show_formspec
12:01 MarkTwain          else:
12:01 MarkTwain          minetest.chat_send_player("")
12:04 MarkTwain          Who wants to build a castle with me?
12:04 MarkTwain          A hotel castle!!!
12:18 Zeg9               Now that 0.4.7 is released, what about this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/166
12:18 Zeg9               !title
12:18 MinetestBot        Zeg9: Call on_rightclick from buckets by Zeg9 · Pull Request #166 · minetest/minetest_game · GitHub
12:22 MarkTwain          Hmmm!
12:23 MarkTwain          Maybe!
12:24 MarkTwain          where is this minetest repo???
12:26 Issa               here --->
12:27 MarkTwain          ???
12:28 Issa               http://minetest.net/download#source_code
12:28 Issa               sorry ctrl c ctrl v not working
12:28 MarkTwain          np
12:29 MarkTwain          Ive been looking on GitHub!
12:29 MarkTwain          it is lol
12:29 Issa               https://github.com/minetest/minetest
12:30 MarkTwain          Can you help me with a website ?
12:31 MarkTwain          also how do i setup a remote media server
12:31 MarkTwain          google sites got it
12:34 Issa               remote media server
12:34 Issa               ?
12:34 Issa               what
12:34 Issa               re
12:34 Issa               lat
12:34 Issa               i
12:42 * Zeg9             thinks of a way to get fire in minetest_game...
12:42 Zeg9               What about lighters made out from bamboo (papyrus)
12:44 Taoki              Hmm. No that I'm using minetest.show_formspec, on_receive_fields doesn't seem to work any more. Anyone know why?
12:44 Taoki              The formspec shows, but clicking the buttons doesn't send info to on_receive_fields any more
12:45 Zeg9               Taoki: iirc it is something like minetest.register_on_player_receive_fields
12:45 Zeg9               the same way as you would do for inventory formspecs
12:46 Taoki              Ah. I have register_on_receive_fields without the player. Will fix and test
12:47 Taoki              Still doesn't seem to work
12:51 Zeg9               https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L986
12:51 Taoki              Zeg9: Can show_formspec be made to return values to the node's on_reveice_fields instead of the function on_player_receive_fields?
12:52 Zeg9               I don't think
12:52 Zeg9               Rightclick = place torch lol
12:52 Zeg9               Taoki: you can still call the node's on_receive_fields from on_player_receive_fields though: minetest.registered_nodes['node:name'].on_...
12:53 Taoki              ok. Will think what to do, thanks\
12:53 Zeg9               I think you should use the formname thing
12:53 Octupus            Hi
12:53 Zeg9               Hello
13:18 MarkTwain          Anyone want to build a castle with me?
13:21 * Zeg9             hates when the configure menu is not responsive
13:31 MarkTwain          does smooth lighting make minetest faster or slower?
13:31 Zeg9               slower if u can notice it
13:32 MarkTwain          what does it do
13:33 VanessaE           good morning all.
13:37 Zeg9               MarkTwain: try. and see.
13:37 MarkTwain          i REALLY need someone to help now
13:38 MarkTwain          I did, not worth the bad graphics for 0.001 fps
13:38 MarkTwain          I need help to build a good castle
13:39 MarkTwain          Not that i cannot build, i need help to get it done faster
13:42 MarkTwain          Brndn
13:42 MarkTwain          will you help me?
13:42 Brndn              funny, i'm trying to get twain working right now
13:42 Brndn              on an old busted x75 that doesn't work with mountain lion, fuck yeah lexmark
13:44 MarkTwain          i have a netbook lol
13:45 MarkTwain          i got 40 :)
13:45 MarkTwain          used to have 50 but im hosting so slower
13:45 Zeg9               john_minetest: of course if you use soft renderer, with a one core cpu :p
13:45 Zeg9               at least u can run aguisy ;)
13:47 Zeg9               <MarkTwain> minetest takes half an hour [to download] and its 9 MB
13:47 Zeg9               <MarkTwain> connection is fast
13:47 Zeg9               Welcome to my signature :p
13:48 MarkTwain          No, to compile!
13:48 Zeg9               Oh.
13:48 MarkTwain          lol
13:50 Zeg9               TinyURL of the day: http://tinyurl.com/kcf2va6
13:51 BlockMen           hi
14:11 adel99             give me
14:11 VanessaE           give you what?
14:11 adel99             minetest.ltmnet.com
14:11 adel99             to i can build
14:11 Zeg9               There is "please" too
14:12 Jordach            adel99, VanessaE does not own that place iirc
14:12 VanessaE           ain't mine, no
14:12 adel99             who can give me ?
14:12 adel99             :D
14:12 VanessaE           in fact I don't even see that one on the server list
14:13 Zeg9               darkrose is owner there IIRC
14:13 VanessaE           oh
14:13 VanessaE           darkrose's server
14:13 adel99             SOOMONE HAWE SERVER WITHOUT GRIEFERS
14:13 adel99             ?
14:13 VanessaE           ask here:  http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5597
14:13 VanessaE           adel99: all servers have griefers.
14:13 adel99             :p
14:13 adel99             OK THANK YOU
14:13 VanessaE           it's just a fact of life, and depends on the admin to manage that problem.
14:13 adel99             I AM NEW
14:13 VanessaE           and don't type in ALL CAPS please.  that's shouting.
14:15 Calinou            <john_minetest> |-) zzzZZZzzz => sleeping banana!
14:17 VanessaE           bart simpson plugging his ear?
14:19 Calinou            xonotic 0.7 is out \o/
14:20 Calinou            http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1fxyzb/how_do_we_know_that_linux_doesnt_have_a/ + http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1fxg9k/do_more_people_download_linux_distros_after/
14:20 Calinou            lol
14:21 Calinou            people still believe in spies? they've played too much TF2
14:23 VanessaE           I'm pretty sure spies still exist, they just aren't all cloak-and-dagger as depicted in that franchise :)
14:23 adel99             soomebody give me soome server ? 0.3.1
14:23 VanessaE           (James Bond I mean)
14:24 VanessaE           adel99: as far as I know darkrose's is the only 0.3.1 server.  Everyone else runs at least 0.4.6 (some 0.4.7) now
14:24 adel99             ok
14:24 adel99             :D
14:26 adel99             where is darkrose ?
14:26 adel99             omg
14:26 adel99             i whait
14:26 adel99             it
14:26 VanessaE           ask her your questions on that forum thread I pointed you to.
14:26 adel99             i ask
14:27 adel99             but
14:27 VanessaE           now you must wait for an answer
14:27 Calinou            VanessaE: there is a TF2 item (invisibility watch) named "cloak and dagger" too :P
14:30 Jordach            VanessaE, just saw your latest picture, looking good!
14:31 VanessaE           Jordach: thanks :)
14:33 * john_minetest    measures the minetest compile time
14:39 rubenwardy         Hi all!
14:39 VanessaE           hey ruben
14:40 Zeg9               Hello!
14:40 Jordach            hello!
14:40 Jordach            <PilzAdam> Hello everyone!"
14:40 Jordach            -"
14:40 VanessaE           heh
14:41 Jordach            while the Adam is away, lets add moonflower in
14:42 VanessaE           and my mortar&pestle idea ;)
14:42 PilzAdam           the Adam is not away
14:42 Jordach            oh shit
14:42 * Jordach          runs
14:42 VanessaE           SHIT, everyone HIDE!
14:42 rubenwardy         Satan is here!
14:42 MarkTwain          LOOL
14:43 * Jordach          dives for cover and changes class to recon
14:45 BlockMen           why does everyone want moonflowers?
14:46 VanessaE           some reasonable way is needed to get glowing objects
14:46 VanessaE           and glowstone is NOT it
14:46 PilzAdam           -> mese
14:47 VanessaE           (I'd sooner use mese fragments)
14:47 VanessaE           but in the absence of pulverized mese, moonflowers seem reasonable.
14:47 PilzAdam           and da fuck have we 3 pull requests for moonflowers?
14:47 PilzAdam           +why
14:48 VanessaE           beats me
14:48 Jordach            mine is clearly the most usable gamewise
14:48 Jordach            it has the glowing mese, the glowing dye + the moonflower
14:48 PilzAdam           one could say "There are so many pull requests, this shows me that its too controversy -> no merge"
14:49 Jordach            /nick DickAdam
14:49 VanessaE           No offense, PS, but if one were to say that, one would indeed be a dick.
14:49 VanessaE           PA*
14:50 VanessaE           that would be like getting rid of all terminal programs in linux just because there are so many
14:50 PilzAdam           I would suggest that all the authors of the pull requests sit together and merge their stuff
14:50 VanessaE           multiple pull requests for substantially the same item, whatever it is, means people obviously want it.
14:51 VanessaE           so you pick the cleanest one, close the other requests, and tell their respective authors to just offer up additional changes instead of entire replacements
14:51 PilzAdam           no, it means that conversation fails
14:51 BlockMen           i would prefer mese dust instead of moon flowers
14:51 PilzAdam           ^
14:51 VanessaE           PilzAdam: conversation fails when you fail to entertain multiple options.
14:52 Exio               how rare is the moon flower?
14:52 Calinou            VanessaE: the general opinion doesn't understand or want competition, they want 300€ celerons :)
14:52 VanessaE           Calinou: heh
14:52 PilzAdam           Exio, from what I heard very rare
14:52 Jordach            PilzAdam, if you merge Taoki's pull, mine will be changed to fit Taoki's modified moonflowers
14:52 BlockMen           mese is already in game and has "special" attributes
14:52 BlockMen           so why not using it?
14:52 PilzAdam           ^
14:53 Jordach            BlockMen == PilzAdam
14:53 MarkTwain          khonkhortisan
14:53 MarkTwain          U there?
14:53 PilzAdam           people already complain that the already existing stuff is only used for one or two things each
14:53 PilzAdam           and then they always add new stuff instead of reusing old one
14:53 BlockMen           Jordach, lol. best joke ever
14:53 VanessaE           PilzAdam: if you keep re-using old stuff, you end up with recipe conflicts, overly-simplistic crafts, etc.
14:54 Exio               i would like an use for gravel
14:54 Jordach            a*
14:54 Exio               wat
14:54 Exio               a use?
14:55 BlockMen           VanessaE, what are over-simplistic crafts?
14:55 PilzAdam           Exio, an use sounds strange, but its correct AFAIK
14:55 VanessaE           Exio: general English rule is "an" if the word starts with a 'u', except if it's pronouced as "yoo-" as un "unicorn", "use", "utility", etc.
14:55 Exio               oh damn
14:56 Exio               can't you pronounce all the words in the same way :<
14:56 Calinou            VanessaE: +1, but few people actually remember that :P
14:56 Calinou            Exio: this isn't french
14:56 Exio               spanish/italian is "u" = "u"
14:56 Exio               :>
14:56 VanessaE           BlockMen: we've managed to avoid it mostly, but for example in mesecons, two cobble side by side = a pressure plate.  in moreblocks, a glowglass = torch + glass.
14:57 Jordach            and it would make the mesecon glowing lamps more sane
14:57 VanessaE           Exio: not in English, there's "uh", "oo" and "yoo"
14:57 Exio               i know
14:57 Exio               and that is why i can't speak it yet :P
14:58 VanessaE           Exio: it gets worse when you count up all the other vowels + y :-)
14:58 BlockMen           VanessaE, i dont see problems with that in general. and you could use a better recipe for glowglass than torches already (like mese crystal)
14:59 Exio               mese crystal doesn't glow
14:59 Jordach            YES
14:59 Jordach            thank you Exio
14:59 BlockMen           Exio, well mese should glow anyway (IMO)
14:59 PilzAdam           ^
14:59 Jordach            Mese != Glowstonme
15:00 Jordach            -m
15:00 VanessaE           mese is like friendship (it's "magic")
15:00 VanessaE           but it only glows in the mesecons mod.
15:00 VanessaE           (and then, only if powered)
15:00 PilzAdam           MeseLP?
15:00 BlockMen           Jordach, ofc it is not. but its some kind of "special material"
15:00 VanessaE           MLMC.
15:00 Exio               lol PilzAdam
15:00 Jordach            VanessaE, hint: the moonflower would solve quite a few issues
15:00 BlockMen           so why net leting it glow?
15:00 VanessaE           My Little Mese Crystal
15:00 Calinou            ^
15:00 Calinou            I was about to say that
15:00 BlockMen           better than "glowing flowers"
15:01 Jordach            BlockMen, im tired of random ores doing everythinf
15:01 Jordach            thing*
15:01 Jordach            surface things should also add to the gameplay
15:01 VanessaE           Jordach: exactly; like I said I'd still side with mese since we already have it, but flowers are fine too --- the problem is CRAFTING IS TOO SIMPLE.
15:01 Jordach            and not just blatantly clone MC
15:01 VanessaE           just put my damn mortar and pestle in
15:01 PilzAdam           Jordach, we already have farming, flowers, grass
15:01 VanessaE           no one's going to complain
15:01 PilzAdam           and all ores can currently only be used for tools
15:01 PilzAdam           VanessaE, no one == PilzAdam
15:01 BlockMen           Jordach, its no "cloning". mese is hard to break, it powers mesecons, etc
15:01 VanessaE           PilzAdam: don't be a dictator.
15:02 VanessaE           you're not the only one who plays the game :)
15:02 Jordach            PilzAdam, continue like this and i will consider taking this to C55
15:02 Jordach            </threat>
15:02 PilzAdam           Jordach, runs to daddy?
15:02 BlockMen           VanessaE, calling PilzAdam dictator is copyrighted by me :P
15:02 Jordach            again, BlockMen == PilzAdam
15:02 VanessaE           PilzAdam: you are free to *not use it* and instead focus on fricken MiniTest
15:03 BlockMen           Jordach, dont be childish
15:03 Zeg9               [/discussion][modding-question]Is there any function to get the world seed?[/modding-question][discussion]
15:03 Jordach            Community Repo @ minetest/minetest_game != pilzadam/minetest_game
15:03 Calinou            anyway try not to argue over these kinds of things, this is why some FOSS tends to suck today
15:03 Calinou            Jordach: minetest is not community developed, nor is the game developed in a democracy
15:03 Calinou            deal with it
15:03 * Calinou          puts sunglasses along with PilzAdam
15:04 Calinou            Zeg9: it's in (world directory)/map_meta.txt, line "seed"
15:04 Calinou            you could use something to read the line
15:04 Zeg9               sounds hacky
15:04 PilzAdam           Zeg9, its the only way
15:04 Zeg9               What I want is a unique position to spawn something in the world. Any other way?
15:04 VanessaE           Calinou: the issue isn't whether the game is developed under the guise of a democracy.  the issue is where stuff is being rejected "just because I don't like it".
15:05 VanessaE           no offense, PA, but that's a piss-poor way to manage a project.
15:05 Calinou            Zeg9: ores? :P
15:05 VanessaE           Zeg9: plants_lib?
15:05 BlockMen           VanessaE, interesting you say that now. Last time i was mentioning this everyone was fine
15:05 Calinou            VanessaE: so PilzAdam doesn't like any of the proposed ways?
15:05 VanessaE           Calinou: ask him :)
15:05 Calinou            aren't there 3 ways to add glowing mese?
15:05 PilzAdam           VanessaE, the reason to not add moonflowers is that we have a better way
15:05 PilzAdam           i.e. using a already added material
15:05 VanessaE           PilzAdam: and that better way is....what?
15:06 VanessaE           mese?
15:06 PilzAdam           yep
15:06 Zeg9               Calinou, VanessaE: no. It's for spawning a temple and there should be only one in the world
15:06 VanessaE           and how do you plan to reduce a mese crystal et.al down to the glowing powder it needs?
15:06 Calinou            Zeg9: well, use my hack then :P
15:06 PilzAdam           use the fragments
15:06 Exio               maybe adding an use for gravel
15:06 VanessaE           Zeg9: you'll have to do it the hard way - on_generated and check for specific coords
15:07 Zeg9               Maybe I'll just take a random number the first time it runs and then store it in the world directory
15:07 Exio               in a survival-game, for what do you use the gravel? building? it is ugly~!
15:07 VanessaE           PilzAdam: no.  mese is a hard plastic-like crystalline substance.  It needs to be pulverized if it's to be used as a glow source.
15:07 BlockMen           why not crystal + crystal == powder?
15:07 Exio               :(
15:07 VanessaE           Exio: a few mods can use gravel to make other stuff
15:08 Exio               VanessaE: few
15:08 VanessaE           BlockMen: because how do you actually obtain the powder?
15:08 PilzAdam           VanessaE, you are too realistic
15:08 Zeg9               Add grinders to the game
15:08 VanessaE           crystal + crystal = two crystals.  what do you use to break them down?
15:08 kahrl              gravel can be used to climb down a long drop
15:08 Zeg9               dont know how to power these though :p
15:08 VanessaE           Zeg9: mortar & pestle
15:08 BlockMen           or crystal = powder
15:08 Calinou            what kahrl said, along with sand
15:08 Exio               kahrl: you can use dirt, cobble, sand, etc :P
15:08 BlockMen           and powder melted = fractals
15:08 Calinou            Exio: gravity blocks only
15:08 Calinou            if there is no wall to build nodes on
15:08 Exio               ah
15:08 Exio               climb down
15:08 * Zeg9             likes the idea of mortar&pestle
15:08 Exio               not up
15:08 Exio               sry, didn't read
15:09 VanessaE           PilzAdam: if I was being realistic, I'd have several steps to get from a mese block/crystal to e.g. glow glass.
15:09 Zeg9               Gravel is useful to make you craft a shovel
15:09 Jordach            the minetest project will fragment if this development line between "likes" and "dislikes"
15:09 VanessaE           I'm not being "realistic", I'm being "reasonable".
15:10 Calinou            Jordach: ...and it's still too hard to add reclocking to nouveau.
15:10 Calinou            there, sentence ended for you
15:10 Jordach            -...and it's still too hard to add reclocking to nouveau.
15:10 PilzAdam           VanessaE, one thing that I would call a "goal" for me is simple crafting recipes
15:10 Jordach            and thats why were going to flop
15:11 PilzAdam           and I have a proof that it works -> MC alpha + early beta
15:11 VanessaE           - - S
15:11 VanessaE           C S C  -->  mortar&pestle
15:11 VanessaE           - C -
15:11 VanessaE           mortar&pestle + mese crystal --> glowing powder
15:11 VanessaE           glowing powder + glass --> glow glass
15:11 rubenwardy         <Exio> in a survival-game, for what do you use the gravel? building? it is ugly~!
15:11 rubenwardy         You can use it to make paths
15:11 PilzAdam           ShadowBot, good job
15:11 VanessaE           stupid bot.
15:11 VanessaE           that was the extent of my paste.
15:11 Jordach            VanessaE, you have chanserv access
15:12 Jordach            kill it with fire
15:12 Jordach            or ill just CTCP flood
15:12 VanessaE           how is this path unreasonably complex?
15:12 Jordach            yeah
15:12 Jordach            its something worth value for rarer items
15:13 PilzAdam           VanessaE, we already have fragments, wich can be used to craft the dye, but you want to add another step, wich makes the fragments useless except for making powder
15:13 VanessaE           three steps to get a piece of glow glass - and that's if you don't already have a mortar&pestle.
15:13 Jordach            you cant magically create a worthless item
15:13 VanessaE           PilzAdam: I'm adding another step for the same reason you can't use a sword to mine stone - because it doesn't make sense to do it any other way
15:13 VanessaE           it's just plain stupid
15:14 Jordach            actually, since mito's back, lets just develop Dwarves and piss on PA + minetest_game
15:14 PilzAdam           you just cant think simplistic
15:14 PilzAdam           Jordach, +1
15:14 VanessaE           no, I can't.
15:14 VanessaE           not THAT simplistic
15:14 Jordach            PilzAdam, you +1'd me for pissing on you
15:14 VanessaE           I refuse to dumb the game down!
15:14 * Exio             still wants an use for gravel
15:14 VanessaE           we're not fucking targeting 5 year olds
15:15 PilzAdam           Jordach, not litterally
15:15 PilzAdam           Exio, *a
15:15 Exio               ff
15:15 Jordach            PilzAdam, your next merge must be between the numbers 169 and 168
15:15 Jordach            for minetest_game
15:15 VanessaE           and by the way, THIS SHIT is why I don't bother to contribute to minetest/minetest_game anymore.
15:15 VanessaE           I'll stick to modding and commentary.
15:16 Jordach            or develop our own game
15:16 Jordach            minetest_game^3
15:16 PilzAdam           VanessaE, you obviously dont agree to my goals of minetest_game and then wonder why I dont like your ideas?
15:16 VanessaE           PilzAdam:  because they're YOUR GOALS.  Not the community's
15:16 VanessaE           it's NOT YOUR GAME.
15:16 VanessaE           it's OUR GAME.
15:17 VanessaE           that's the part you keep forgetting.
15:17 Exio               what about being hurry in adding the multiple-official-games
15:17 Exio               downloable-from-the-network
15:17 VanessaE           Exio: that idea has since been pretty much rejected
15:17 Jordach            by PilzAdam
15:17 Exio               ehm..
15:17 Exio               wtf?
15:17 PilzAdam           ehm..
15:17 PilzAdam           wtf?
15:17 Jordach            ^ clonebot
15:18 Exio               i'm ok with having different games with different goals, and both being the "available in the same way"
15:18 PilzAdam           bbl
15:19 VanessaE           see?
15:19 Jordach            now that PA is gone, lets do some minetest_game pull merging
15:19 VanessaE           he doesn't like the direction the conversation is taking, so he leaves.
15:19 Exio               lol Jordach
15:19 Jordach            im right Exio
15:19 Zeg9               [q] is minetest.serialize safe for positions?
15:19 VanessaE           PilzAdam: sorry if I seem like a bitch, but I won't back down on this.  you're making this into YOUR game and not letting the rest of us have any say in it.
15:20 Jordach            likes + dislikes != good to merge
15:20 Jordach            they should be voted upon by the community
15:20 Jordach            and at the end of such poll, minetest-services should merge
15:20 Jordach            the highest choice
15:20 BlockMen           You must be all kidding. When i came up with this topic you all ignored what is said and agreed that PA decides. now its your stuff you say the same.
15:21 BlockMen           You are all not a bit better than PilzAdam
15:21 Exio               Jordach: nah
15:21 Exio               that would make a game full of crap
15:21 Exio               "200342353245345345345237472342358345435342534 blocks and nodes doing 2 things"
15:21 Exio               s/blocks/entities/
15:21 Exio               and mods like mobs would be upstream-ed even when they are laggy
15:22 Exio               or buggy
15:22 Jordach            Exio, if you were stranded in a world with no memories; you would literally have to think about tool making, resources etc
15:22 Exio               (the entity-duplication bug)
15:22 Jordach            which gives the point of mortar + pestle
15:22 VanessaE           exACTly
15:22 Jordach            you cant do everything with your fists
15:22 Zeg9               Exio: the entity duplication bug is not a problem from mobs or whatever
15:22 VanessaE           this isn't fucking pac-man
15:22 Exio               Zeg9: it is for all the entities
15:22 BlockMen           motar + pestle sucks
15:23 VanessaE           this is a mine-for-resources-and-do-some-reasonably-complex-stuff-to-build-shit game
15:23 PilzAdam           VanessaE, you are obviously ignoring the fact that BlockMen agrees to me
15:23 VanessaE           BlockMen: what else would someone set in the 1600's use to grind something?
15:23 Jordach            and dont say grindstones
15:23 Jordach            those are windmills
15:23 VanessaE           PilzAdam: I am not ignoring that fact, but blockmen is one person.
15:23 BlockMen           and the crafting thing of mese can be solved easy: http://i.imgur.com/84rXz4J.png
15:24 PilzAdam           VanessaE, you and Jordach are 2 persons
15:24 Exio               am i the only who doesn't like both ideas directly
15:24 VanessaE           PilzAdam: your recipes, and his, are stupid.  they are too damn simplistic
15:24 PilzAdam           VanessaE, I am not the only one who wants his ideas to be in minetest_game
15:24 Jordach            or are just cloning MC
15:25 BlockMen           VanessaE, and why is it now important how many persons have an opinion. öast time you didnt care bout that too
15:25 BlockMen           *-ö +l
15:25 PilzAdam           VanessaE, the problem why everyone calls me a "dictator" is that I have push access
15:25 VanessaE           I assert that you should need to use some kind of tool on something as hard as mese to pulverize it into a powder.
15:25 PilzAdam           if you would have it, then I would call you a dictator
15:25 VanessaE           I don't want it.
15:25 VanessaE           I would never want it.
15:25 PilzAdam           because yelling at the one who has it is more fun?
15:26 VanessaE           no, because an equal number of people probably hate my ideas and I don't need the headache of trying to manage that.  I have enough of my own projects to manage as it is.
15:26 Jordach            we have a yin yang problem
15:26 VanessaE           yelling at you is because you're the *only* person making significant changes to minetest_game at all
15:26 Jordach            both sides are an equal force
15:27 BlockMen           a tool to pulverize something is not needed. this is a game, not RL. or do we need a saw to make tree == wood now?
15:27 VanessaE           no one else wants to touch it
15:27 VanessaE           BlockMen: then why do we need a pick to mine stone?
15:27 VanessaE           this isn't reality
15:27 PilzAdam           digging has nothing to do with crafting
15:27 BlockMen           so, you want add saw too?
15:27 PilzAdam           your argument is invalid, VanessaE
15:27 VanessaE           BlockMen: actually if I had my way, the game would have a saw, but not for cutting trees.
15:28 Exio               all i just see are lots of opinions what can't be right
15:28 Jordach            has anyone noticed that BlockMen and PilzAdam speak one after the other if they are one person
15:28 PilzAdam           VanessaE, then do your own game
15:28 Jordach            as if*
15:28 VanessaE           PilzAdam: so mining/building can be vaguely realistic, but crafting has to be stupid-5-year-old simple?
15:28 VanessaE           that makes no selse?
15:28 VanessaE           sense*
15:28 Jordach            sense*
15:28 Jordach            ninja'd
15:28 BlockMen           Jordach, srsly. thats only thing you have to say?
15:28 BlockMen           that poor?
15:28 BlockMen           *!
15:28 Jordach            BlockMen, you seen to be identical to PilzAdam
15:29 Jordach            and what makes it worse is that you both have the same ideas and coding style
15:29 BlockMen           Jordach, how would you say so nice. having same opinion != be same person!
15:29 Calinou            ^
15:29 PilzAdam           Calinou, you are me!
15:29 Exio               lol
15:29 PilzAdam           because you agree to BlockMen, who is me too
15:29 * Exio             throws renewable lava at PilzAdam
15:30 BlockMen           i am everyone here... :D
15:30 Exio               lets add somewhen the multiple-official-games
15:30 * PilzAdam         makes it not renwable and throws it at 0gb.us
15:30 PilzAdam           VanessaE, I would really like to see you (or someone else) do the realistic crafting game
15:31 VanessaE           someone else already did an ultra-realistic crafting game
15:31 PilzAdam           as for minetest_game, I continue the path of non realistic crafting
15:31 VanessaE           you seem to have a problem with "black and white" thinking
15:31 Jordach            <PilzAdam> as for minetest_game, I continue the path of non realistic crafting
15:31 Jordach            CASE CLOSED
15:31 VanessaE           if it's the least bit realistic, it may as well be fully realistic, like there's no in-between that and stupid-simple crafts
15:31 PilzAdam           I just try to continue the path that was already taken before I came here
15:31 Jordach            you are not the sole owner of minetest/minetest_game
15:31 PilzAdam           and that is non realistic but simple crafting
15:32 VanessaE           um
15:32 Exio               make it mese crystal + gravel = 5 mese powder :D
15:33 Jordach            ew
15:33 VanessaE           almost all of the default recipes have some vague resemblance to the thing you get from the recipe or the thing the thing you get is used on
15:33 PilzAdam           Exio, you can use my TNT mod, it uses gravel to get gunpowder
15:33 Exio               i want a use for the damn gravel ;P
15:33 BlockMen           Exio, what is that with the gravel the whole time?
15:33 BlockMen           *nvm
15:34 Exio               in MC at least you can make arrows with the flint you can obtain from the gravel, or use it for things like flint&steel => fire
15:36 BlockMen           Exio, make tools with flint. like in stoneage :P
15:36 Exio               aww
15:36 Exio               maybe, at least it is a use
15:37 BlockMen           *and more realistic than with cobble :)
15:37 BlockMen           ^ for all realistic fans
15:38 PilzAdam           VanessaE, Im considering to stop developing minetest_game at all now
15:39 PilzAdam           this would lead to more people developing their own games, wich is definitely wanted
15:39 BlockMen           but let the default game coming with engine die
15:40 VanessaE           bah, I give up.
15:40 VanessaE           do whatever you want.
15:40 PilzAdam           it would still serve as a platform for mods
15:41 BlockMen           PilzAdam, IMO that is not what is should be
15:41 * arsdragonfly|pho read through the log
15:41 PilzAdam           the problem with minetest_game is that its too centralized, everyone wants to have their ideas in it
15:42 arsdragonfly|pho   it kinda reminds me of the Emacs Schism :-(
15:42 BlockMen           well, but not everyone is developer.
15:42 BlockMen           we should have more than 1 person develop _game then it would be better accepted if idea will not be merged
15:42 Exio               PilzAdam: exactly
15:43 BlockMen           *ideas
15:43 Exio               did you "throw away" the multiple-games-with-different-maindevs?
15:45 BlockMen           IMO there should be ONE default game (and not even the minimal anymore). all other can be gotten from a platform for mods, tp, and games.
15:46 PilzAdam           the mod manager in Lua menu could do that
15:46 Exio               but people said you threw it away like "not supporting"
15:46 Exio               BlockMen: i think there should be "3 or 2" games
15:47 Exio               for a different community
15:47 arsdragonfly|pho   PilzAdam :rename minetest_game to minetest_minimal_components now
15:47 BlockMen           Exio, i dont think so. all that is other should be forks or w/e.
15:47 Exio               BlockMen: why a "fork"?
15:48 arsdragonfly|pho   and we'll all use the current modding infrastructure to create our own games
15:48 Exio               it will just use the same engine
15:48 PilzAdam           the problem is that people want their ideas in minetest_game instead of making their own game
15:48 Exio               what PilzAdam says
15:48 BlockMen           "or w/e" :P
15:48 VanessaE           one should ask you why you're not doing the same, PA, when you propose something others disagree with.
15:48 Exio               BlockMen: they should be pseudo-official, i mean, installed by default or with a very-nice-list-to-install-them-with-internet
15:49 BlockMen           Exio, the last one. but same for mods and tp
15:49 BlockMen           one official and easy way to get & install costum
15:49 PilzAdam           VanessaE, because someone needs to develop minetest_game; my goals seem pretty close to what we already have, and most of the other core devs agree to me
15:50 arsdragonfly|pho   by renaming it to "minimal" only the VERY fundamental mods will be includes
15:50 arsdragonfly|pho   *included
15:50 Exio               nah
15:50 PilzAdam           arsdragonfly|pho, the name doesnt really matter, the problem is that there are too few other games
15:50 Exio               i'm ok with having the minimal game;, i think it should be updated a bit though :P
15:50 PilzAdam           people dont realise that tehy can use other games
15:50 BlockMen           Exio, arsdragonfly. then we can kick all games
15:51 BlockMen           like PA said, no one would lay minetest anymore
15:51 Exio               hm
15:51 BlockMen           *i ment "what PA said is right and that would cause that"....
15:52 Calinou            \o/ successful troll
15:52 BlockMen           me?
15:52 Calinou            me
15:52 BlockMen           ah..ok :)
15:52 Calinou            I told people not to argue
15:53 Exio               i just think having multiple-games seems the "way to go", as people's opinion differ, having more than one game, even if they are just "pseudo-official" (some "recommend list" or so)
15:53 arsdragonfly|pho   now it's time to determine whether to develop this game in a KISS way or not
15:53 Calinou            please don't
15:53 Calinou            arsdragonfly|pho: this isn't arch linux
15:53 BlockMen           Exio, it would cause the same problem like now. which one would come with default?
15:53 Calinou            go back to AUR thank yoi
15:53 Calinou            s/yoi/you
15:53 Exio               BlockMen: none
15:53 PilzAdam           If people would actually create other games, then it wouldnt matter what I do with minetest_game
15:53 BlockMen           everyone would want that his/her game is in
15:53 Calinou            keep it complicated and smart
15:54 VanessaE           there's a difference between KIS,S and KIS-S.
15:54 VanessaE           (Keep It Simple, Stupid versus Keep it Stupid-Simple)
15:54 Exio               BlockMen: i just say like 3 or max 4, not having a 40
15:54 FreeFull           VanessaE: I never heard of the second one
15:54 PilzAdam           VanessaE, there are a lot of other meanings of KISS
15:54 PilzAdam           see wikipedia
15:55 BlockMen           Exio, ya, i know. but who decides which one come in?
15:55 BlockMen           its the same problem like :"what comes in _game"
15:55 arsdragonfly|pho   I wonder if PA uses Arch
15:55 VanessaE           PilzAdam: in my country, the first listed meaning is the most common one by a VERY wide margin.  t
15:55 PilzAdam           Kubuntu
15:55 Calinou            see
15:55 Calinou            PilzAdam uses a bloated distro
15:55 VanessaE           the second one, dunno if i just now coined it or if someone else did before
15:55 PilzAdam           of course I use KDE, Im evil :-p
15:55 Calinou            eviiiil
15:56 Exio               BlockMen: i don't actually think that would be a very big problem
15:56 BlockMen           Exio, and why do you think so?
15:56 Exio               as by now, you would get two games, "PilzAdam's" and "VannesaE's"
15:56 arsdragonfly|pho   that makes a contrast  :-P
15:56 dysoco             Exio, hey
15:56 Exio               hi dysoco!
15:56 VanessaE           Exio: I already have my own game, of a sort.
15:56 BlockMen           Exio, and why not rba's?
15:56 BlockMen           or mitos?
15:57 PilzAdam           everyone can add their games to the mod manager repo
15:57 PilzAdam           there is nobody to decide what goes in and what not
15:57 arsdragonfly|pho   Let's just maintain the core engine like the way linux kernel is developed
15:58 Exio               BlockMen: RBA wanted a game too, with shared opinions to VanessaE
15:58 Exio               er, VannesaE != VanessaE :P
15:58 arsdragonfly|pho   and leave the games to the community like the distros out there
15:58 Exio               a playable game should be by default
15:58 PilzAdam           Exio, I want to type VannesaE too
15:58 dysoco             I think the projects should split
15:58 Calinou            Exio: good idea
15:58 dysoco             but Minetest should develop a "main" game too
15:58 PilzAdam           VanessaE, you should highlight VannesaE too :-P
15:58 dysoco             that my idea, though.
15:58 BlockMen           Exio, and mitos game? or any other out there?
15:59 Calinou            but to please the general opinion, you need to write games, not engines
15:59 arsdragonfly|pho   The Minetest Schism :-P
15:59 VanessaE           meh
15:59 PilzAdam           dysoco, read logs, its not possible
15:59 dysoco             Hm, how so? I would read the legs.
15:59 BlockMen           Exio, sry, but that makes it to complicated. Make ONE default game and a way to get easy games, mods and tps
15:59 Exio               BlockMen: i don't know those games, but they should be in the list in the "Other games" section
16:00 Exio               BlockMen: how complicated? the formspec menu is nearly here.
16:00 dysoco             Maybe some in-game menu option to "Get more games"
16:00 Exio               dysoco: Lua/Formspec main menu
16:00 PilzAdam           dysoco, thats already suggest hours ago
16:00 dysoco             I see
16:00 BlockMen           Exio, good. then there is no reason to make more than one default game
16:00 PilzAdam           read the logs ;-)
16:01 Exio               BlockMen: that is, making installing games and mods "easier" or at least user-friendly
16:01 Exio               that is already suggested! :P
16:02 BlockMen           huh? how would it be "easier" when you have more than one default game?
16:04 MarkTwain          how about an in-minetest mod browser?
16:04 Exio               BlockMen: installing a game now:
16:05 Exio               * open forum.minetest.net; search one; open the forum topic; download it; place it in the correct place; ...; play
16:05 Exio               how "it should be":
16:05 Exio               * press "download games"; select; double click; play
16:05 PilzAdam           MarkTwain, I should kick your for stupidity
16:05 Exio               s/games/more &/
16:06 PilzAdam           MarkTwain, thatw what we are talking about _all the time_
16:06 Exio               PilzAdam: you*r*?
16:06 PilzAdam           -w+s
16:06 BlockMen           Exio, yes, i know. but that is no reason for more than one default game.
16:06 PilzAdam           -r
16:06 Jordach            is PilzAdam using emacs
16:06 BlockMen           default game = game sthat comes with engine
16:06 PilzAdam           nope.avi
16:06 * rubenwardy       is fiddling with CG shaders
16:06 ShadowNinja        minetestserver is consuming a lot of CPU. 100% before I killed it.
16:07 Exio               BlockMen: for now, the only game what comes with the engine itself, is minimal, not minetest_game, it is the official game
16:07 ShadowNinja        About 15%-100% now.
16:07 VanessaE           minimal is not supposed to be treated as a game
16:07 PilzAdam           VanessaE, it has a game.conf -> its a game
16:07 VanessaE           not in the sense of playing it seriously anyway
16:07 ShadowNinja        Mostly 20%. It normaly consumes about 4%.
16:07 PilzAdam           although its not good
16:08 VanessaE           PilzAdam: "minimal development test" tells me it is not really a game.
16:08 BlockMen           Exio, ok. i correct myself. then _game should come with engine instead of minimal
16:08 Jordach            it should not be included as a game, but as a base for games on minetest
16:08 VanessaE           it just looks like one because you have to put it in there *somehow*
16:09 BlockMen           minimal is useless for users and its better if developers have to install a "game" instead if common user
16:10 PilzAdam           there has to be something in the engine when downloading it, otherwise people think its "broken"
16:10 BlockMen           PilzAdam, yes _game. not minimal
16:10 Exio               a normal use will use the minetest_game
16:10 Exio               BlockMen: it is way too huge for the engine repository
16:11 PilzAdam           BlockMen, we cant pack _game in the engine -> it will be a commit log mess
16:11 Exio               ^ that too
16:11 PilzAdam           that was discussed already in -dev
16:11 Exio               :P
16:11 BlockMen           2,7 MB is in year 2013 not "too huge" :P
16:12 PilzAdam           well, I will somewhat make a feature freeze for _game now until we decide what to do
16:12 Exio               BlockMen: making it a git submodule is ok for me; having it directly "inside" the repository, isn't
16:12 Exio               s/making/having/
16:13 BlockMen           Exio, ok. that would be good IMO
16:13 VanessaE           Exio: s/making it/having it as/
16:13 PilzAdam           Exio, noooo! no submodules
16:13 Exio               why not PilzAdam?
16:13 PilzAdam           because they suck
16:13 Exio               VanessaE: ok!
16:13 webdesigner97      hi
16:13 Exio               PilzAdam: how?
16:14 PilzAdam           and they cant be transfered to another system AFAIK
16:14 Exio               hmm?
16:15 BlockMen           PilzAdam, what other system?
16:16 webdesigner97      Can lua create a file if it doesn't exist? I want to have multiple textfiles which need to be generated by lua
16:16 PilzAdam           bazaar
16:16 VanessaE           webdesigner97: sure, easily so.
16:16 Exio               ah
16:16 Exio               launchpad
16:16 BlockMen           PilzAdam, and how often you transfer minetest?
16:16 PilzAdam           every single commit
16:16 webdesigner97      cause my code doesn't work:
16:16 VanessaE           webdesigner97: here's how I do it in moretrees:  https://github.com/VanessaE/moretrees/blob/master/init.lua#L24
16:17 PilzAdam           required to build on launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~minetestdevs
16:17 BlockMen           uhh...we should split in win and linux :P
16:24 bdjnk              When one does a "register_on_dignode", is there any way to get the oldnode's metadata?
16:25 bdjnk              You know, because "get_meta(pos)" will get the new metadata, which is null...
16:27 reactor            .yeH
16:28 bdjnk              Hey reactor.
16:32 MarkTwain          sonyone good at digiline modding?
16:36 BlockMen           bye
16:41 Miner_48er         Has anyone had this problem? main.cpp:1959: int main(int, char**): Assertion '0' failed.
16:42 MarkTwain          yep
16:42 MarkTwain          Many times
16:42 Miner_48er         How did you fix it?
16:52 reactor            Hmm.
16:52 reactor            Does make allow for parallelism?
16:55 Calinou            reactor: parallelism?
16:55 Calinou            make -jx
16:56 reactor            thank you
16:57 VanessaE           -j8 or so
16:57 Calinou            where x is number of threads to use
16:57 reactor            yep, I see
16:58 reactor            Eh. They could have included the word "parallel" into that paragraph of the man
16:59 reactor            Hmm.
16:59 Calinou            of course not, this is GNU
16:59 Calinou            freedom is better than convenience!
16:59 reactor            vorbis, openal are dependencies, but are not listed in the README
16:59 Calinou            they are not
16:59 Calinou            -DENABLE_SOUND=0
16:59 Calinou            also they are listed in the readme
17:00 reactor            Must have overlooked, as always.
17:01 reactor            Calinou: that wasn't gmake
17:02 reactor            not sure what kind of make is here
17:02 reactor            but nto gmake
17:02 reactor            s/nto/not
17:02 reactor            for I have a separate gmake
17:02 Calinou            cmake you mean
17:02 reactor            no no
17:02 reactor            and not cmake
17:02 reactor            cmake is here, as well
17:04 reactor            Wow.
17:04 reactor            I've built it.
17:04 reactor            That will be a good package addition, I think.
17:05 Calinou            \o/ sudo make install fanboy
17:06 reactor            not that fast
17:07 reactor            rather, make package :D
17:08 Miner_48er         Anyone know how to fix this problem? main.cpp:1959: int main(int, char**): Assertion '0' failed.
17:08 reactor            Something must go wrong, I know it. It won't run.
17:09 reactor            Time to cross fingers again.
17:17 reactor            Yeah, my hunch was right, it won't run.
17:20 Calinou            it works for me, you're doing it wrong
17:25 reactor            BadDrawable
17:26 reactor            (trying to run on software rendferer)
17:33 Calinou            le facepalm
17:33 Calinou            reactor: get a proper graphic driver, use opengl
17:33 Calinou            also, if you really want to use software, disable shaders
17:33 Calinou            ("settings" menu)
17:33 Exio               and enjoy 4 FPS
17:33 reactor            Calinou: no drivers for my platform eh
17:34 Calinou            "for my platform?"
17:34 reactor            NetBSD
17:34 Calinou            le facepalm
17:34 Calinou            use a real OS instead of bullshitdistro
17:34 Exio               bullshitdistro?
17:34 Exio               netbsd?
17:34 Exio               do you know *bsd(s) aren't linux distros?
17:34 reactor            Calinou, man, you should read more.
17:35 Calinou            it's not like there are too many people using linux already
17:35 Calinou            reactor: no, I should know better, I use a debian-based distro
17:35 reactor            It's just I wouldn't like to change OS just because there are no vide drivers eh.
17:35 reactor            s/vide/video/
17:36 Exio               what gpu reactor?
17:36 reactor            So I decided to try it anyway.
17:36 reactor            Exio: some NVIDIA.
17:36 Exio               ah
17:36 Calinou            nvidia has a BSD driver
17:36 Calinou            but well, it sucks
17:36 reactor            FreeBSD
17:36 Calinou            again: use an OS which has hardware accel
17:36 Calinou            lol
17:36 reactor            I'm planning on testing it this summer.
17:37 reactor            It's just I've gotten sick of Linux already, having not succeeded compiling a single package there.
17:37 reactor            In 4 years.
17:38 Jordach            omfg
17:38 Jordach            i just found a paper craft site and realised how useful UV mapping is
17:41 Calinou            lol
17:41 Calinou            you really suck then :P
17:41 Jordach            Calinou, its the fact that you can literally make models by using the guided images
17:44 Calinou            Jordach: talking to reactor
17:44 Calinou            about not being able to compile anything
17:44 Calinou            it probably is simpler than in BSDs
17:44 reactor            I've tried.
17:44 Jordach            Calinou, yup, BSD is piss easy
17:44 reactor            I think it's more a matter of preference, though.
17:44 Calinou            how about sudo apt-get install <packages> then extract + cd src then make
17:45 Calinou            it works that way for most stuff
17:45 reactor            Exactly that failed, I don't know where, however.
17:45 reactor            I've even tried pulling pkgsrc to there. Debian is supported, by the way.
17:47 Taoki              Can someone help with a little script issue? I have a node formspec (not player formspec using show_formspec). Is there any way to add an on_rightclick command which only blocks the formspec if an if statement is met?
17:47 Taoki              Again, I'm not using show_formspec, otherwise I'd put that on else. I add the "formspec" string to the node on creation, because I ust use that and not show_formspec
17:47 MarkTwain          remove the formspec
17:47 Taoki              I need on_rightclick to only deviate its function if an if statement is met. If not, show the formspec the way it does naturally
17:47 MarkTwain          IF..
17:48 Taoki              Remove how?
17:48 MarkTwain          meta.setstring""
17:48 Taoki              It's a node string [meta:set_string("formspec)]. Unsetting that would prolly be a hacky way to go
17:48 MarkTwain          or remove...
17:48 Taoki              Yeah. Is that the only way?
17:48 MarkTwain          i dont know, im not a modder
17:49 Taoki              ok. anyone else know?
17:49 KikaRz             Fuck you Minecraft!
17:49 Mustek             you too
17:50 Taoki              Oh, and that wouldn't work I think. Since the right click would automatically open the formspec first
17:50 MarkTwain          I need addons for digilines
17:50 MarkTwain          I just need a replacement for mesecons
17:50 KikaRz             VanessaE, are you there, sweetie?
17:51 MarkTwain          Anyone know?
17:51 KikaRz             Mustek, die in hell
17:51 Nikondork          now now
17:51 VanessaE           yeah
17:51 VanessaE           just working on something.
17:51 KikaRz             VanessaE, give me one explanation
17:54 sfan5              !op
17:56 KikaRz             sfan5 <3
17:56 sfan5              no!
17:56 KikaRz             yu so sweet too <3
17:56 KikaRz             (are you thinking I'm a boy??? O_O)
17:57 Calinou            everyone does
17:57 Calinou            the default on the internet is a boy
17:57 sfan5              ^
17:57 KikaRz             ... The other option on the internet is girl
17:57 KikaRz             ... The other option on the internet is women
17:57 KikaRz             ... The other option on the internet is old women
17:57 KikaRz             ... The other option on the internet is female
17:57 KikaRz             lawl
17:57 Calinou            ...the other option on the internet is linux
17:57 KikaRz             No , that's the default option.
17:57 Calinou            lol nope
17:57 Calinou            anandtech begs to differ
17:58 Taoki              ... the other option on the internet is herm
17:58 Taoki              :3
17:58 Calinou            this is like saying AMD is the default option
17:58 KikaRz             For the maiority...
17:58 Calinou            Taoki: s/herm/pony
17:58 Taoki              hehe
17:58 sfan5              .. the other option on the internet is `uname -a`
17:58 Calinou            oh, xonotic 0.7 is out, Taoki
17:58 Calinou            it finally has decent animations :3
17:58 KikaRz             xonotic???
17:58 Taoki              Awesomeness
17:58 Taoki              Calinou: I always use the GIT
17:58 KikaRz             laughing
17:58 * sfan5            already downloaded xonotic 0.7
17:58 Calinou            KikaRz: why?
17:58 Taoki              KikaRz: Best open-source FPS ever
17:58 KikaRz             Oh...
17:58 Calinou            has vehicles :-D
17:59 KikaRz             I thinked it was ... Ovelha Choné.
17:59 KikaRz             (portuguese name)
17:59 Calinou            read: pron actor
17:59 KikaRz             Now...
17:59 KikaRz             Help me people.-... http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/capturadeecr-09-06-2013-185538.php
17:59 reactor            Well.
17:59 KikaRz             Why my dragging/name bar isn't appearing
17:59 reactor            It seems the bug only affects amd64.
17:59 MarkTwain          http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=92734#p92734
17:59 KikaRz             Xubuntu.
17:59 reactor            I'm lucky, as always.
18:00 MarkTwain          Also a replacement for luacontroller
18:00 * Calinou          high fives KikaRz for xubuntu
18:00 MarkTwain          I just hate mesecons...
18:00 KikaRz             Want a good download manager? DownThemAll!
18:00 Calinou            KikaRz: in a terminal type:
18:00 Calinou            xfwm4 --replace
18:00 Calinou            KikaRz: meh, uget is better
18:00 Calinou            downthemall is for slowfox :P
18:00 KikaRz             Well... too
18:00 KikaRz             but ITS FAST
18:00 KikaRz             Mine reached 30,9 MB/s
18:00 Calinou            it takes 2 more seconds to start than chromium
18:00 Calinou            speed isn't dependant of download manager
18:00 Calinou            it is dependent on your connection
18:01 Taoki              lol, my text-to-speech IRC script is funny to enable on the channel sometimes
18:01 KikaRz             Calinou, but Firefox don't uses all the b... band
18:01 * Taoki            is listening to it sometimes funnily translate the chat here
18:01 Calinou            let's use it to make new playermodel voices in xonotic
18:01 Taoki              hehe
18:01 Taoki              It's not that good
18:01 KikaRz             is xonotic (hahahahaha...) good?
18:01 Calinou            yes it is
18:02 Taoki              KikaRz: Best =)
18:02 KikaRz             I never tested
18:02 Calinou            it depends on your view
18:02 Calinou            red eclipse is more "casual"
18:02 KikaRz             Anyways, I like Saüerbraten
18:02 Calinou            liking sauerbraten is liking john mccain
18:02 Exio               40%   21MB  42.5KB/s   12:22 ETA
18:02 KikaRz             but it's funny
18:02 Calinou            s/is liking/like liking
18:02 Exio               my wireless is awesome
18:02 Calinou            Exio: l33t wget
18:02 KikaRz             Installing OpenArena
18:02 sfan5              Calinou: curl is better
18:03 KikaRz             Installing Xonotic (hahahahahah...)
18:03 Exio               Calinou: scp
18:03 Exio               sfan5, aria2c
18:03 sfan5              I bet the.xyz uses netcat to download files
18:03 Exio               socat*
18:03 Calinou            openarena is even more conservative than sauerbraten
18:04 Calinou            and it's... ugly
18:04 Calinou            people are too poor to afford PS, or to make GIMP a decent texturing tool 8)
18:04 thexyz             sfan5: wat
18:04 KikaRz             Calinou, xfmw4 --replace didn't worked.
18:04 KikaRz             still without the bar
18:04 Calinou            xfwm not xfmw
18:04 Calinou            it's there, but it's black
18:04 KikaRz             you said me mw
18:04 KikaRz             well
18:04 KikaRz             it restarted.
18:04 * Calinou          sees "steam" o/
18:04 KikaRz             Calinou, no it's not.
18:05 KikaRz             that's the desktop.-
18:05 Calinou            KikaRz: well, reboot then
18:05 KikaRz             That don't solves
18:05 KikaRz             It's without bar since when I installed xubuntu
18:05 KikaRz             (i'm running Xubuntu and not XFCE
18:05 MarkTwain          Can anyone help me with digiline addons?
18:05 Calinou            xubuntu uses xfce
18:05 Calinou            so you're using xfce
18:05 KikaRz             ol
18:05 KikaRz             lol
18:05 Calinou            KikaRz: weird
18:06 KikaRz             but there are 2 choises
18:06 Calinou            try disabling compositing
18:06 KikaRz             *choices
18:06 KikaRz             Calinou, how?
18:06 KikaRz             that's what I want to know too
18:06 Calinou            settings > window manager tweaks > compositing
18:06 reactor            compositing...
18:06 reactor            who needs it!
18:06 Calinou            reactor: fglrx users of course
18:06 reactor            oh yeah yeah
18:06 KikaRz             Nope.
18:06 thexyz             oh, yes, no one needs compositing
18:07 thexyz             enjoy your tearing
18:07 KikaRz             Now gets blue more bright.
18:07 KikaRz             and MINUS laggy
18:07 KikaRz             Thank you
18:07 reactor            thexyz: tearing eh?
18:08 KikaRz             Calinou, waiting
18:08 thexyz             reactor: tearing, yeah
18:08 Calinou            thexyz: tearing is unnoticeable when moving windows in general
18:08 thexyz             Calinou: what about watching videos?
18:08 Calinou            and in games, it is not noticeable if you set maxfps to (refresh rate) +1
18:08 thexyz             no one does that, right?
18:08 Calinou            thexyz: I don't watch videos
18:08 reactor            How about all this "smoothing" is counterproductive?
18:08 Calinou            rarely
18:08 Calinou            and when I do, I don't see tearing
18:08 thexyz             compositing is not about "smoothing"
18:09 reactor            It only makes everything appear slower, beside making it actually work slower.
18:09 KikaRz             Calinou, it improves the FPS at Minetest,linux games, CS 1.6, Team Fortress 2, ...?
18:09 reactor            Tearing. Big deal.
18:09 thexyz             reactor: read the definition
18:09 KikaRz             (when disabling)
18:09 thexyz             please
18:09 Calinou            TF2 with composting = lololololol
18:09 KikaRz             Well...
18:09 Calinou            reactor: compositing improves battery life though
18:09 KikaRz             It went DARKNESS!
18:09 Calinou            again?
18:09 Calinou            try doing xfwm4 --replace a lot of times
18:10 KikaRz             and kept at : Loading Resources / Loading server info
18:10 reactor            Calinou: sarcasm?
18:10 Calinou            reactor: it doe
18:10 Calinou            at least on my netbook
18:10 reactor            That's unexpected.
18:10 KikaRz             Calinou, no result
18:10 KikaRz             Ok, no problem
18:10 KikaRz             Ctrl + Left click solves it.
18:10 KikaRz             and I'll be able to move windows with that
18:11 KikaRz             well, going to Xonotic
18:11 KikaRz             what server you recommend to me?
18:11 thexyz             for example, my compositing manager (dcompmgr) does nothing but fixes tearing
18:11 Calinou            [MoN] vehicle gameplay, KikaRz
18:11 thexyz             by using OpenGL for drawing stuff
18:11 KikaRz             Lauching
18:12 Exio               thexyz: may you try the "workaround"
18:12 Exio               for utf8 on linux? *
18:12 thexyz             Exio: link it to me
18:12 Exio               https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/754
18:13 Calinou            thexyz: what's your graphics card anyway? I don't notice any tearing without compositing
18:13 thexyz             okay, building
18:14 thexyz             Calinou: GTX 670
18:14 reactor            Strange, glxgears works fine.
18:14 thexyz             Calinou: and what's your DE?
18:14 reactor            May bad drawable be caused by wrong directory paths?
18:15 Exio               reactor: what "software" render are you using?
18:15 thexyz             Exio: it works on linux, windows time now
18:16 Exio               thexyz: my patch only adds the workaround on linux, not windows, as PilzAdam reported it worked out-of-the-box in his build
18:16 reactor            Exio: not sure about that
18:16 Exio               what is the video_driver line? :P
18:17 KikaRz             minetest.conf
18:17 KikaRz             video_driver = <name>
18:17 reactor            Exio: glxinfo?
18:17 reactor            KikaRz: Oh.
18:17 reactor            Not yet.
18:17 thexyz             Exio: oh, okay then
18:17 reactor            Exio: glxinfo says I'm using Mesa Software rasteriser.
18:18 reactor            KikaRz: I don't have a config yet
18:18 reactor            KikaRz: what should I put there if I'm using swrast?
18:18 Exio               thexyz: how are you using the software renderer, then?
18:19 thexyz             huh?
18:19 thexyz             I don't
18:19 reactor            I do, Exio.
18:19 reactor            I do.
18:19 Exio               err
18:19 Exio               thexyz: sorry, fail
18:21 reactor            Exio: well, I think it doesn't get to the config anyway
18:21 reactor            for it doesn't create it in the first place
18:22 Exio               # Possible values: null, software, burningsvideo, direct3d8, direct3d9, opengl
18:22 Exio               # Possible values: null, software, burningsvideo, direct3d8, direct3d9, opengl
18:22 reactor            Oh
18:22 Exio               er, sorry, double paste
18:22 reactor            software
18:23 Exio               well, both software renders work for me
18:23 Exio               (software and burningsvideo)
18:23 Exio               software is way faster; but very glitchy
18:23 Taoki              Any server using this yet? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=94108 Would like to test it in multiplayer too
18:24 reactor            now
18:24 reactor            when I've mae it use the config
18:24 reactor            made*
18:24 reactor            it just sefgaults after complaining about fonts mssing
18:24 reactor            missing*
18:25 reactor            (it was built without RUN_IN_PLACE)
18:26 reactor            I must specify paths manually then, I think.
18:26 reactor            For it shows some strange paths in --verbose
18:26 Calinou            thexyz: xfce 4.10 + xfwm
18:26 Calinou            GTX 570 + nvidia 319.17
18:26 Calinou            "sync to blank" is disabled
18:30 Taoki              VanessaE: Do you have my mod on your server? If not, feel like testing it? (requires generating new unexplored areas for it to fully be seen in work though)
18:30 VanessaE           which mod is that?
18:30 VanessaE           oh
18:30 * VanessaE         looks
18:30 VanessaE           *waits for forum to answer*
18:30 VanessaE           "...projects I had in mine..."  <-- mind*
18:30 Taoki              VanessaE: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=94108
18:30 VanessaE           hm, looks like a variation of worldedit's load/save function?
18:30 Exio               using the software render with some settings: 20~30 FPS, with burningsvideo: 10~15, with opengl: 200~250
18:30 Taoki              See first post for GIT link
18:30 Taoki              VanessaE: Nothing to do with worldedit. At least not purpose-wise
18:31 Taoki              Mostly a system that lets you not only import / export buildings, but adds them to mapgen to generate villages
18:31 reactor            path_share = ..
18:31 VanessaE           mmm, think I'll pass but it looks interesting
18:31 reactor            path_user = ..
18:31 reactor            That's not normal, is it?
18:32 Taoki              Aww, ok. Would have liked testing it in MP with anyone
18:33 Exio               reactor: with run_in_place, it is normal :P
18:33 reactor            Oh.
18:33 reactor            And RUN_IN_PLACE=1 is default then?
18:34 Exio               hmm no
18:35 reactor            john_minetest: I'm making a distribution package
18:37 reactor            Hmm.
18:37 reactor            As soon as I do -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0, it fails with complaints about Irrlicht headers missing.
18:39 reactor            Never mind, needed to remove some quotes here and there.
18:41 KikaRz             My Xonotic evaluation: Like Halo, but worst.
18:41 KikaRz             STUPID AT ALL!
18:42 KikaRz             ;Let's go to the next game.
18:43 NakedFury          you mean like halo with rapid movement but worst
18:43 Exio               redeclipse ftw
18:43 dysoco             +1
18:43 NakedFury          dont like rapid movement shooters
18:43 KikaRz             NakedFury, WORST!
18:43 KikaRz             NOT THAT
18:43 KikaRz             LAGGY
18:44 Exio               get a better pc
18:44 KikaRz             NOT ME
18:44 KikaRz             EFFECTS ALL GLITCHY
18:44 KikaRz             And Exio, go to the hell.
18:44 KikaRz             Shut your mouth up.
18:44 PilzAdam           Exio, +1
18:44 KikaRz             PilzAdam
18:44 KikaRz             repeating: NOT ME
18:45 Calinou            john_minetest: yes, minecraft
18:45 KikaRz             john_minetest, +1
18:45 PilzAdam           ^
18:45 NakedFury          by rapid movement I meant in the style of red eclipse and that xonotic. I like them slower. arma 3 style
18:45 GhostlyDeath       I hear minecraft is coded in a fake programming language
18:45 KikaRz             but xonotic is bad.
18:45 Calinou            no u
18:45 KikaRz             Stupid "sentinels" kill us FASTER
18:46 Calinou            you just can't understand it, that's all
18:46 KikaRz             Not me.
18:46 Calinou            fun fact: vehicle servers aren't rapid at all
18:46 dysoco             NakedFury, I love the ArmA series, but totally different kind of games.
18:46 Calinou            you use a vehicle to destroy the turrets, or use hide and seek
18:46 Calinou            NakedFury: if you mean that, then there is no slow shooter on linux
18:46 KikaRz             But they kill us faster than us destroying them
18:46 Calinou            of course, else it would be too easy
18:46 Calinou            xonotic is not an easy game
18:46 KikaRz             ?
18:46 Calinou            the general opinion seems to accept easy games today
18:47 KikaRz             I'm not accepting easier games
18:47 KikaRz             I'm just telling that HARD games are worst in it gameplay.
18:47 NakedFury          I wonder too john
18:47 Calinou            john_minetest: red eclipse can easily be modded
18:47 Calinou            reduce movement speed, remove double jumps and all that
18:47 Calinou            make new maps
18:47 Calinou            profit :P
18:47 Calinou            also there's TF2, which isn't that fast
18:47 Exio               cs cz
18:47 Exio               :D
18:47 Calinou            CS is rather fast
18:48 KikaRz             Calinou, it's fast too.
18:48 NakedFury          the problem with CS being fast is that its more like a instant kill game
18:48 KikaRz             I run CS 1.6 at 199 FPS
18:48 Calinou            it still works on linux
18:48 Calinou            but it isn't open source
18:48 KikaRz             Well, it is now.
18:49 KikaRz             Did you know?
18:49 KikaRz             *knew?
18:49 Calinou            since when the source engine is open source
18:49 KikaRz             Just ask Valve's source code.
18:49 KikaRz             CS 1.6 ISN'T SOURCE ENGINE
18:49 Calinou            doesn't mean it is open source
18:49 Calinou            oh, right
18:49 KikaRz             it's GOLDSRC
18:49 Calinou            but half life 1 is still completely obsolete
18:49 Calinou            and it uses an open source engine but proprietary game logic (eg. UrT), then it is open core
18:50 KikaRz             One game that I like: ARMAGGETRON!
18:50 NakedFury          I would like an open source free alternative to Battlefield
18:50 KikaRz             *ARMAGETRON
18:50 GhostlyDeath       What's the point of running a game higher than 60FPS?
18:50 Calinou            KikaRz: lol?
18:50 KikaRz             *w*
18:50 Calinou            armagetron is very, very fast
18:50 KikaRz             And?
18:50 KikaRz             It's cool!
18:50 Calinou            and full of *cough*haxors*cough*
18:50 KikaRz             no, they aren't haxors
18:50 Calinou            GhostlyDeath: 120/144hz screens
18:50 Calinou            less input lag
18:50 KikaRz             just people with binds in multiple places
18:50 Calinou            and of course, heating your room
18:51 GhostlyDeath       Most GPUs these days just do not draw to the screen outside out a sync cycle
18:51 KikaRz             Going to try TF2, since I disabled compositing
18:51 * Calinou          is installing armagetronad
18:51 Calinou            oh, but that game doesn't let you enable vsync
18:51 Calinou            I do not want to run it at 3000FPS ;-;
18:52 KikaRz             I dislike vsync
18:52 Jordach            Calinou, better than me > 0
18:52 Calinou            it removes tearing at the cost of latency
18:52 Calinou            and I have no idea how to use nvidia linux application profiles
18:53 Calinou            these are insanely hard to use compared to windows
18:53 * Jordach          dances
18:53 Jordach            windows is good at one thing: gaming
18:53 KikaRz             why TF2 freezes at: Getrting server info?
18:53 Calinou            KikaRz: it can take a while
18:53 Calinou            Jordach: linux too
18:54 Calinou            "few games" is not an excuse
18:54 Calinou            no point in having "hotel simulator 2013"
18:54 KikaRz             Calinou, at point to crash?
18:54 codedevil          Calinou: linux needs some fixes still to be polished for gaming
18:54 Calinou            KikaRz: if it crashes, then you're out of RAM or something like that
18:54 Calinou            codedevil: no?
18:54 Calinou            which ones?
18:54 KikaRz             nope calinou
18:54 codedevil          Calinou: yes
18:54 codedevil          in example
18:54 KikaRz             I thinked that Windows took more RAM than Linux.
18:54 Calinou            KikaRz: is TF2 even playable on your PC anyway? O_o
18:55 KikaRz             Yes.
18:55 KikaRz             On Windows was.
18:55 codedevil          linux (closed source drivers made by incopetent companies like AMD and Nvidia) sucks regarding crashing when switching virtual displays
18:55 Calinou            TIL amd and nvidia are incompetent
18:55 Calinou            go make GPUs too and see :P
18:55 GhostlyDeath       AMD has better GPUs though
18:55 GhostlyDeath       thanks to ATI
18:55 KikaRz             at 125.1 fps.
18:55 Calinou            nvidia has worked fine for me, on 3 cards
18:55 Calinou            sadly, linux seems to be full of nvidia fanboys, or it is just me
18:55 GhostlyDeath       ATI/AMD all the way
18:55 codedevil          john_minetest: both do
18:55 Calinou            AMD has better perf/price but I can't buy from them
18:55 codedevil          ATI developers are all idiots
18:56 Calinou            their results on phoronix seem to be very variable
18:56 codedevil          judging from quality of the driver
18:56 GhostlyDeath       I've only used free drivers ever
18:56 KikaRz             john_minetest, I got one processor (by AMD, that sucks) and one graphics card (by NVIDIA)
18:56 codedevil          VanessaE: do you know how to us forcefield? it doesn't work for me
18:56 KikaRz             Both sucks.
18:56 VanessaE           I have no idea actually
18:56 Calinou            AMD CPUs don't have the driver problem and thus are good
18:56 Exio               ^
18:56 codedevil          anyone knows how to use forcefield?
18:56 Calinou            lol no
18:56 Calinou            it is like 10× slower than nvidia
18:56 Calinou            and no opengl 4.3
18:57 codedevil          do we have any cool survival?
18:57 Kray               nvidia runs on linux well
18:57 Calinou            and no GUI to configure stuff
18:57 codedevil          is survival fun in minetest?
18:57 Calinou            no :P
18:57 GhostlyDeath       Nvidia has a nice kernel you are forced to use
18:57 Calinou            fglrx is more standards compliant, I know that GhostlyDeath
18:57 Calinou            hey, I use xubuntu afterall
18:57 Calinou            upstart :huehuehue:
18:57 codedevil          last time I tried pvp in minetest, the fighting felt like fucking a horse while wearing gloves and bucket over head, while ridding ski
18:57 Calinou            lol
18:57 Calinou            it still does
18:58 * Calinou          would like to see collision between players
18:58 codedevil          couldn't hit anything and there was serious lagging issue
18:58 codedevil          john_minetest: intel cards are the best in the world
18:58 codedevil          just not for gaming
18:58 KikaRz             Guys, why my MIC don't works?
18:58 sfan5              �
18:59 Calinou            KikaRz: is it USB, or analogic?
18:59 KikaRz             Yes, john_minetest
18:59 codedevil          KikaRz: my 8balls says: try again
18:59 Calinou            codedevil: intel is evil, though
18:59 Calinou            codedevil: since when you have 8 balls
18:59 KikaRz             Calinou, analogic (turned on by that RED port...)
18:59 Calinou            john_minetest: no, pulseaudi
18:59 KikaRz             john_minetest, IDK
18:59 codedevil          Calinou:nvidia is eviller
18:59 Calinou            +o
18:59 Calinou            codedevil: or not
18:59 KikaRz             I've tried all controllers that Steam shows
18:59 KikaRz             and none works
18:59 KikaRz             Skype neither.
18:59 Calinou            codedevil: and that doesn't make AMD's driver better
19:00 GhostlyDeath       ATI/AMD makes red colored video cards
19:00 Calinou            I heard way too many complaints from it to switch to AMD
19:00 Calinou            eg. 7850 gives 30 to 100 fps in TF2 with min settings
19:00 codedevil          KikaRz: on linux when microphone doesn't work, 80% of the time you forgot to un-mute and turn up volme for EVERYTHING in some good sound controller/mixer
19:00 Calinou            how come a 570 with similar power in games does 60+ with everything maxed out and 4× aa
19:00 KikaRz             john_minetest, What volume bars???
19:00 codedevil          or to select correct input source from severals, KikaRz
19:00 KikaRz             ??
19:00 KikaRz             ??
19:00 KikaRz             You are all wrong '-'
19:00 GhostlyDeath       Isn't pulseaudio dead?
19:01 Calinou            no
19:01 codedevil          GhostlyDeath: it's most advanced audiossytem now afaik
19:01 GhostlyDeath       more advanced than JACK?
19:01 Calinou            but it has lots of latency if not using HT
19:01 Calinou            I bet it is sponsored by intel ;-;
19:01 KikaRz             Omg, I'll never anymore talk with my friends
19:01 KikaRz             :(
19:01 GhostlyDeath       alsamixer?
19:02 codedevil          Calinou: intel gfx is the one that has 100% open drivers, and works best on them.  Nvidia crashes and shit and fucks with developers. Amd tries to sometimes help developers but still binary driver is shit
19:02 Calinou            KikaRz: what software are you trying to use?
19:02 Calinou            codedevil: 1) slower than on windows 2) zero configuration
19:02 codedevil          Calinou: for what, intel?
19:02 Calinou            nvidia doesn't crash for me
19:02 Calinou            yes, intel
19:02 codedevil          yeah intel is slow but it never crashes
19:02 Calinou            the driver is getting faster these days, but it is still slower
19:02 KikaRz             ...
19:02 Calinou            and again: zero configuration
19:02 codedevil          Calinou: this is GURANTTED to crash nvidia and ati:
19:02 Calinou            no GUI
19:02 KikaRz             Ok, fuck this microphone,.
19:02 KikaRz             i'm going to be mad...
19:02 Calinou            codedevil: you're doing it wrong
19:02 codedevil          Calinou: why the fuck you need config for? it should just work
19:03 Calinou            codedevil: a GUI control panel for application profiles, overclocking, temperatures and all that
19:03 GhostlyDeath       Intel makes dumb mistakes, quite often too
19:03 codedevil          Calinou: every computer always crashes/hangs with amd or nvidia if you do this:
19:03 Calinou            nvidia has that (minus the overclocking part since i'm on fermi)
19:03 codedevil          Calinou: log in as another user. e.g. lock screen -> switch user
19:03 Calinou            why would I want? i'm single user
19:03 FreeFull           I haven't used pulseaudio in ages
19:03 Calinou            and I never lock screen
19:03 FreeFull           The distro I use doesn't force it on people
19:03 codedevil          Calinou: keep swithching between users  ctrl+alt+f1  ctrl+alt+f7  ctrl+alt+f8
19:03 codedevil          after 10..100 switches is crashes
19:04 FreeFull           Doesn't get installed by default and I haven't found anything that needs it yet
19:04 Calinou            I don't do that
19:04 codedevil          this issue is on both cards since always
19:04 GhostlyDeath       F1 through F6 are virtual terminals for me
19:04 GhostlyDeath       F7+ are X sessions, if any
19:04 codedevil          Calinou: ok then it crashe for people that have more then one computer user
19:04 Calinou            after 10-100 switches, yeah
19:04 codedevil          GhostlyDeath: yes, that is what I said. txt <-> x1 <-> x2 switching
19:04 Calinou            you usually switch 3 times at most
19:04 FreeFull           When I boot I don't have any X sessions, and when I start one it remains in the VT I started it from
19:04 codedevil          Calinou: I switch 10 times pere day or more
19:04 KikaRz             Installing all my Linux Games (steam)
19:04 codedevil          and uptime is months
19:04 FreeFull           So right now I have X on F1
19:05 codedevil          well - "would be" months
19:05 Calinou            I shut down my PC at night, no need to waste power
19:05 codedevil          Calinou: oh you silly you
19:05 codedevil          mine litecoin, be rich
19:05 thexyz             codedevil: why do you need to switch between them?
19:05 Calinou            bitcoins are like forex
19:05 Calinou            the end
19:05 codedevil          Calinou: like opensource, people-owned forex, yea
19:06 codedevil          thexyz: because there are few users
19:06 Calinou            gtg
19:07 thexyz             codedevil: I mean, why do you need to switch between txt <-> X
19:07 codedevil          thexyz: even if not, it might be good idea to have one account for lolcats and interntez and jewtube and idiotbook, and anothre for say bank
19:07 KikaRz             See ya later.
19:07 codedevil          oh txt? for root
19:07 KikaRz             My rep per linux - 7,4/10
19:07 codedevil          I think switching just between graphics can make problems too
19:07 codedevil          KikaRz: rep?
19:07 KikaRz             I'll be waiting answers for the Mic in QUERY
19:07 KikaRz             codedevil, Linux Reputation for me
19:08 KikaRz             well
19:08 KikaRz             Evaluation
19:08 codedevil          KikaRz: I told you. Go to sound volume controll, and turn EVERYTHING UP. also unmute EVERYTHING
19:08 KikaRz             ALREADY
19:08 KikaRz             Tell me in QUERY
19:08 KikaRz             Dinner.
19:09 codedevil          KikaRz: make sure you selected correct sound-input in the mixer.  ask  #alsa and #pulseaudio
19:10 codedevil          anyone knows how to use power generator exactly?
19:10 codedevil          I mean force field generator
19:23 VanessaE           codedevil: odd, I'm not sure now, except that it takes low-voltage wiring/battery box/solar panels to at least provide power
19:23 VanessaE           (except, that doesn't work)
19:24 VanessaE           RBA musthave busted it
19:25 KikaRz             Back
19:25 reactor            hmm
19:25 reactor            RUN_IN_PLACE=0, but path_share and path_user = ..
19:25 reactor            Weird.
19:27 reactor            So, the problem is wrong paths.
19:28 reactor            Because I've tried kludging them up, and the demo worked fine.
19:29 AntonBoch1244      Hello Everyone!
19:30 VanessaE           hi
19:32 VanessaE           ShadowNinja: *poke*
19:32 reactor            So, eh.
19:33 reactor            STATIC_SHAREDIR is correct
19:33 reactor            what could cause them paths to be wrong then?
19:34 VanessaE           I usually just specify -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=/usr  when I build for system-wide
19:34 VanessaE           cmake . -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=/usr -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=0
19:34 VanessaE           (but that's for linux, not sure how netbsd would differ in that regard)
19:35 thexyz             plz
19:35 thexyz             ENABLE_FREETYPE should be 1
19:35 VanessaE           thexyz: not until bitmap fonts work at the same time as freetype.
19:36 AntonBoch1244      Check Mods
19:36 thexyz             VanessaE: bitmap fonts =(
19:37 thexyz             are for sure better than unicode support
19:37 thexyz             well, not unicode though
19:37 VanessaE           thexyz: hey now, my font is beautiful. -->  http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4436
19:37 thexyz             no one cares about unicode
19:37 thexyz             (it seems)
19:37 thexyz             VanessaE: 404
19:37 VanessaE           odd, how'd that happen?
19:37 * VanessaE         fixes...
19:37 reactor            fonts work fine here
19:37 reactor            I think
19:38 Calinou            thexyz, TTF fonts are not useful right now, mods or the game cannot adjust font size "locally"
19:38 Calinou            only "globally" right now
19:38 VanessaE           thexyz: fixed.
19:39 KikaRz             VanessaE, answer me
19:39 VanessaE           I'm busy
19:40 thexyz             Calinou: why do they need to?
19:40 thexyz             VanessaE: no in-game screenshots
19:40 * thexyz           closes tab
19:41 Calinou            thexyz, could be useful for HUD elements
19:41 thexyz             Calinou: okay
19:41 KikaRz             F12 - Screenshot in-game.
19:41 thexyz             Calinou: how's that different from bitmap fonts then?
19:41 thexyz             > mods or the game cannot adjust font size
19:41 Calinou            if you upscale them they'll look ugly
19:42 VanessaE           thexyz:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2005052013%20-%2009:51:55%20PM.png
19:42 Calinou            TTF fonts won't
19:42 thexyz             Calinou: yes, now what's wrong about ttf fonts compared to bitmap ones then?
19:42 KikaRz             VanessaE, LOVE YOUR GAME!
19:42 reactor            then
19:42 reactor            is it better to compile with bitmap fonts then?
19:43 KikaRz             Someone can commit to github?
19:43 PilzAdam           reactor, no, compile with TTF
19:43 KikaRz             I want to test "git pulL"
19:43 KikaRz             I want to test "git pull"
19:43 thexyz             reactor: well, if you don't need non-ascii support AND can spend time installing a different default font AND think ttf sucks, feel free to
19:44 AntonBoch1244      BB
19:44 reactor            hmm
19:44 VanessaE           thexyz: and also this:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/screenshot_1346055471.png
19:44 reactor            also
19:44 reactor            "Vorbis extension NOT present"
19:45 reactor            although I do remember compiling libvorbis
19:45 Calinou            thexyz, wait... WTF brain
19:45 Calinou            nevermind
19:45 Calinou            lol, you even have to compile libvorbis
19:45 thexyz             VanessaE: looks great
19:45 thexyz             but no cyrillic
19:45 thexyz             obviously
19:45 VanessaE           right
19:45 VanessaE           but now you see why I won't use freetype :)
19:47 reactor            Cyrillic. В16 ДЕАГ
19:47 reactor            Whoever invented it is a hipster. Why not use Latin script for Russian and such?
19:47 Jordach            VanessaE, if i ever get a spare 21'' monitor, its yours
19:47 Jordach            1280x1024 is ancient
19:47 reactor            Jordach: most people's eyes can't tell pixels apart on that.
19:48 VanessaE           1280x1024 * 2
19:48 Exio               1920x1080 ftw!
19:48 VanessaE           which is plenty for me.
19:48 Jordach            VanessaE, its widescreen
19:48 VanessaE           (so 2560x1024)
19:48 PilzAdam           Exio, +1
19:48 thexyz             reactor: too fat
19:48 PilzAdam           Exio, although, 4K anyone?
19:48 reactor            thexyz: which one?
19:48 thexyz             PilzAdam: how much does 4k monitor cost?
19:48 reactor            thexyz: oh... you mean that... no, my face is not green.
19:48 PilzAdam           thexyz, never seen one
19:48 Exio               more than 4K! ;P
19:49 Calinou            there is some 4K TV for ~$1500, no?
19:49 Calinou            but they're still very big
19:49 Calinou            just like WQHD >:o
19:49 * Calinou          would like to see a 24" WQHD screen
19:49 Jordach            Calinou, Apple makes 4K TVs in half the size through Retina Display
19:49 Jordach            </possible news>
19:50 Calinou            Jordach, doesn't mean there is affordable WQHD or 4K
19:50 Calinou            apple is apple, aka exclusivity
19:50 Exio               overpriced stuff
19:50 thexyz             john_minetest: almost
19:51 VanessaE           it's sad.  15 years ago you could cram 2048x1536 into a 14 inch CRT and it was tolerable.  then flat panels and eventually "HD" took over and everything went to hell
19:51 Calinou            2048×1536 CRTs were rare
19:51 Calinou            and expensive, no?
19:52 VanessaE           Calinou: interlaced video at 80Hz.  tolerable and cheap
19:52 Jordach            but heavy
19:52 VanessaE           Jordach: and how. :)
19:52 * Calinou          would also like to see more 120hz
19:52 Calinou            I bet linux support for 120hz is shit though
19:52 khonkhortisan      I vote we remove the __newindex metatable in minetest.registered_nodes
19:53 khonkhortisan      It keeps new entries from being created, but not existing entries being edited. It serves no useful purpose, specifically not its intended read-only behavior.
19:53 reactor            Or... Do I need libogg instead of libvorbis?
19:54 thexyz             reactor: you need both
19:54 Jordach            john_minetest, better fps
19:54 Calinou            john_minetest, less latency with vsync, more fluidity
19:54 Calinou            120hz with vsync has 2× less latency than 60hz with vsync
19:54 reactor            thexyz: or... are these the same?
19:55 Calinou            no idea
19:55 Calinou            to a BSD question, a BSD answer.
19:56 reactor            okay.png
19:56 thexyz             ogg is a container, vorbis is a codec
19:56 reactor            Oh, I see.
19:57 Calinou            ^
19:58 codedevil          did I owned server again?
19:58 Calinou            huh
19:59 codedevil          massive slowdown
19:59 codedevil          or not?
19:59 reactor            Blowenfusen.
20:01 Calinou            codedevil, which server?
20:01 Calinou            lol'd @ Jordach's quit message
20:01 reactor            Eh.
20:01 reactor            VanessaE: compiled with the define you told me about, still ".." in paths.
20:02 VanessaE           which server?
20:02 VanessaE           reactor: hrm.  Sorry I can't be of more help
20:02 codedevil          VanessaE: your
20:02 reactor            mkay
20:02 codedevil          works now
20:02 reactor            john_minetest: NetBSD
20:02 VanessaE           nope, it seems fine
20:02 reactor            is the "distro"
20:03 reactor            I'm almost getting it to run now.
20:03 * john_minetest    has got an unused HDD...
20:03 VanessaE           it's just a little laggy like usual, probably new terrain (mapgen is slow on my setup because of moretrees)
20:03 reactor            The title screen is shown, if I kludge around the paths.
20:06 NakedFury          have you guys ever thought about making the default trees a block or 2 higher?
20:06 reactor            Is there a way to explicitly set them dirs via cmake entries?
20:07 Calinou            john_minetest, put windows 8 on it
20:07 codedevil          reactor: people play games on... netbsd?
20:07 Calinou            NakedFury, sfan5 did a patch for this a while ago
20:07 Calinou            codedevil, yeah, gnukart
20:07 Calinou            NakedFury, but it wasn't merged
20:07 Calinou            I'm fine with trees being small
20:07 reactor            codedevil: newsflash! they do.
20:07 NakedFury          they are too small
20:08 reactor            codedevil: look, I think this package would be a good contrib to pkgsrc
20:08 Calinou            codedevil, btw, the guy is trying to use software renderer
20:08 sfan5              Calinou: I made a patch for trees being higher?
20:08 Calinou            game will be unplayable
20:08 Calinou            sfan5, IIRC, yes
20:08 NakedFury          if you play with moretrees they look like shrubs and compared to the player model they end up beeing too small too
20:08 * sfan5            does not remember that
20:08 reactor            If it will, I'll still have a package to send.
20:09 reactor            It's more about adding a package.
20:09 reactor            -_-
20:09 Calinou            and who will actually use it?
20:09 Calinou            if you make a ubuntu/debian package, people will use it.
20:09 Calinou            fedora/opensuse, a bit less but they still will.
20:09 VanessaE           NakedFury: moretrees Beech were meant to replace the default trees.
20:09 VanessaE           but I guess that'll not happen for a long time, if ever
20:09 Calinou            not to mention your package will be quickly outdated (in a few months)
20:09 reactor            Calinou: come on, people do run NetBSD on desktops.
20:09 Calinou            haven't seen any
20:10 reactor            Calinou: well, hello there.
20:10 Exio               i haven't seen any linux desktop irl
20:10 Calinou            same, Exio :P
20:10 Calinou            john_minetest, lol, is this sarcasm
20:10 codedevil          chart movement is buggy
20:10 codedevil          chart rides into walls if it rides-lags into not loaded chunk, then it keeps going in old direction
20:11 codedevil          chart should pause on touching ignore surface, same like player
20:11 Calinou            you mean cart
20:11 Calinou            diagrams usually do not move around on rails
20:12 Exio               lol ...
20:12 VanessaE           codedevil: the problem is the carts use velocity or some such, and there's no API function to make an entity stop at a certain spot.
20:12 VanessaE           so the carts can't stop if the server lags out.
20:13 codedevil          I have 3 fps. wtf
20:14 Exio               stop using valgrind
20:14 codedevil          VanessaE: it could pause - server could stop sending events to cart
20:14 VanessaE           codedevil: I think the client handles the movement once the server says 'go'
20:14 VanessaE           it's just that there's no way for the server to tell the client '...and stop after X meters."
20:16 codedevil          overall the architecture is wrong for a real game. e.g. wallhacking
20:16 VanessaE           each time a cart turns, and every so often otherwise (say, every 5 seconds), the code should scan ahead at least 20-30 meters and determine if there's a reasonable place to stop, such as a hill or the next corner.  and of course the client+server need some API function to handle the result of that check.
20:17 VanessaE           wallhacking is due to client-side prediction
20:17 codedevil          server should move players back to last possible position, obviously
20:18 Calinou            do it then
20:18 VanessaE           there's been a lot of talk to figure that out, but no one's come up with *and implemented* a good solution
20:18 Calinou            note that some servers have 1s+ latency
20:18 codedevil          well
20:18 Calinou            wallhack prevention is possible for entities and players, but not for the world in general
20:18 codedevil          server has respondibility to check all movements
20:18 Calinou            "wallhacking" refers to visibility
20:19 Calinou            not movement
20:19 Calinou            that's "noclip"
20:19 codedevil          client should tell where he would *like* to be, and srv checks if that is valid move
20:19 codedevil          there are 1 issues
20:19 Calinou            also, client side moving is the future
20:19 codedevil          1 is wallhack due to server sending ALL DATA to client
20:19 codedevil          2 is server allowing to pass unbrakable(denied access) walls if you move quickly and server is slow, it undoes the blocks but lets you be in the place you shouldnt reach
20:21 Calinou            minecraft does noclip prevention very well
20:21 Calinou            it never failed
20:25 codedevil          I seen it fail
20:25 codedevil          break wall, open chest, nigger it up
20:25 codedevil          when server puts you back to "legal" position (outside the protected room) it often do not undo your inventory with the loot
20:26 Calinou            being too far away from chest doesn't close it
20:26 codedevil          Sfan5 server working? I can't connect
20:27 sfan5              codedevil: make sure you use the new IP
20:27 sfan5              (althogh the old one should still work)
20:27 khonkhortisan      Your favorite servers won't update ip like public ones will
20:27 codedevil          I use the one from list of servers
20:27 codedevil          oh
20:27 codedevil          sfan5: is there pvp on your's server?
20:28 sfan5              codedevil: not really
20:28 Calinou            codedevil, you can see flags in server list or http://servers.minetest.net
20:28 codedevil          sfan5: survival without pvp?
20:28 Calinou            (note that the "Ded" flag is not shown in the ingame server list, it's only for telling which servers are usually on 24/7)
20:28 Calinou            P = pvp, C = creative, D = damage (health), * = no empty passwords
20:28 VanessaE           codedevil: "nigger it up"?  wtf?
20:28 Calinou            CDP* is a combination of all these
20:28 Calinou            default is DP
20:29 sfan5              codedevil: pvp is enabled
20:30 VanessaE           jeez, 12 players on "ray's server"?  wtf am I doing wrong?
20:31 VanessaE           (probably because I whitelist)
20:31 codedevil          VanessaE: or jew it up
20:31 VanessaE           codedevil: um...
20:31 codedevil          do you have problem with word jew? ;)
20:31 * VanessaE         <-- jewish.
20:31 Calinou            VanessaE, way worse than the 212 players on Metacraft
20:31 codedevil          but you have no problem murdering people right?  supporting "your troops"?
20:31 Calinou            le facepalm
20:31 MJaoune            hey, anyone here with a premium minecraft account? Don't mean anything but I have a server and i need people to operate it + advertise it
20:32 VanessaE           Calinou: not familiar with that one
20:32 VanessaE           codedevil: where did I say that?  I hate war.
20:32 Calinou            that was the server that was attacked with join flood :P
20:32 codedevil          VanessaE: allrighty then
20:32 VanessaE           mine got joinflooded recently (maxed out at 85 or something)
20:33 Calinou            codedevil, using|living in something doesn't mean you agree with everything the company|the country does
20:33 MJaoune            anyone wants to be a minecraft server operator? -.-
20:33 VanessaE           MJaoune: this is mineTEST not minecraft.
20:33 codedevil          sfan5: your server says invalid password... did I just registered there with some random pass by mistake?
20:33 sfan5              codedevil: could be
20:33 codedevil          sfan5: might deleting it or smth?
20:34 sfan5              codedevil: i'll reset your password
20:34 codedevil          oki
20:35 codedevil          sfan5: you will PM me?
20:35 sfan5              yes
20:35 sfan5              but I can't connect o.O
20:35 VanessaE           PilzAdam: by the way, your patch helps considerably, but while doing further testing, the TODO list stacked up WAY past 500,000.  You may want to consider some way of discarding those excess events once they exceed some second trheshold
20:35 VanessaE           (probably stacking up due to routine server lag)
20:36 codedevil          but why there are new events in the first place?
20:36 VanessaE           fuck if I know
20:36 codedevil          mabe same event gets re-queued if it didn't got executed
20:37 codedevil          bbl
20:37 reactor            Well.
20:37 reactor            It runs.
20:37 reactor            But everything is weird reddish.
20:37 sfan5              hm
20:38 sfan5              reactor: disable shaders
20:38 reactor            oh
20:38 sfan5              !up sfan5.minetest.net 30001
20:38 MinetestBot        sfan5.minetest.net:30001 is up (299ms)
20:38 reactor            I forget.
20:38 Calinou            shaders require opengl 2.0+ :P
20:38 Calinou            and they're also slower
20:38 reactor            12 fps
20:38 reactor            at least that...
20:39 reactor            It's the sound that caused crashed, by the way. No libogg.
20:42 Calinou            even my netbook has more than 12 fps
20:42 Calinou            atom + IGP
20:47 reactor            Well.
20:47 reactor            It _kind_ of works, actually... everything is inside out.
20:49 sfan5              good night
20:50 reactor            nighty night
20:55 Calinou            night
20:58 reactor            I wonder what could cause that inside out appearance...
21:10 Calinou            reactor, Z-buffer not working right
21:10 reactor            Oh.
21:10 Calinou            fix: switch to linux, get a real driver...
21:10 * Calinou          rolleyes
21:10 reactor            I'm lucky, as always...
21:15 VanessaE           question:  should digging mossy stone give mossy cobble?
21:15 VanessaE           (the mossy stone I added to gloopblocks that is.  Also, be sure you update to get the fixed abm)
21:17 Exio               can you smelt mossy cobble to get mossy stone
21:17 Exio               or somehow get mossy stone from mossy cobble?
21:17 harrison           logically no
21:17 VanessaE           no, I would think that would give you clean stone.
21:17 harrison           since the heat would kill the moss
21:17 VanessaE           but mossy stone is produced by exposing stone to air.
21:17 harrison           moss certainly
21:17 VanessaE           er
21:17 VanessaE           air and water
21:18 reactor            depends on how much water.
21:18 reactor            too much, and you get physical destruction
21:18 VanessaE           reactor: in my mod, there just has to be water.
21:18 Exio               harrison: that is why i said
21:18 VanessaE           (and air)
21:18 Exio               "somehow"
21:18 reactor            oh
21:18 Exio               but how would you obtain moss stone in your inv, then?
21:18 Exio               a special tool?
21:19 reactor            Speaking of Z-buffer.
21:19 VanessaE           Exio: I suppose I could make a crafting recipe for it
21:19 reactor            Is there a way to... eh. Correct its functioning?
21:24 VanessaE           reactor: that would be somewhat difficult, I'm told
21:24 VanessaE           if you mean the alpha/z-ordering issue
21:25 reactor            Let me correct myself. It's not inside-out, it's just... weird.
21:25 reactor            I don't see the surfaces right in front of me.
21:26 VanessaE           oh the inside-out issue. eh... no clue there
21:26 reactor            But I see some of these that are a bit farther.
21:26 Exio               inside-out
21:26 Exio               what
21:26 Exio               screenshot? i don't know that
21:26 reactor            Exio: my consciousness.
21:29 reactor            I mean, I'll screen it tomorrow, for I'm going.
21:29 Exio               ok :/
21:30 reactor            Thanks for help; good night.
21:36 sokomine           is io.popen longer supported or did i miss anything?
21:40 sokomine           who knows. it does seem to be part of some mods so i wonder if i missed anything or if it never worked
21:41 PilzAdam           last time I checked (some months ago) it worked only on windows
21:41 KikaRz             Gangnam style
21:41 KikaRz             nanihonhakdakakjdaka
21:41 KikaRz             lol
21:41 KikaRz             Hellop
21:42 KikaRz             Who can tell me why my Public servers list isn't appearing?
21:42 VanessaE           you didn't build with cURL.
21:42 KikaRz             didn't I?
21:42 KikaRz             stupid Calinou
21:42 KikaRz             How I build again?
21:42 KikaRz             :(
21:42 PilzAdam           everything you need is in the README
21:42 sokomine           ah, thanks, pilzadam. that might be why. now i looked at the mod more closely i saw the working version used temporary files on unix and popen on win
21:43 KikaRz             ... PilzAdam, shut up, I didn't asked you
21:43 sokomine           compiling works really well on linux. it's only two commands (once you've got all the dependencies...)
21:44 PilzAdam           sokomine, are you looking at the maps mod by any chance?
21:44 KikaRz             what's dependency of cURL?
21:45 PilzAdam           libcurl-gnut<something>
21:45 Exio               KikaRz hates us PilzAdam :(
21:45 sapier             curl on windows is missing dll selection in gui
21:46 KikaRz             Exio, yes I do.
21:46 PilzAdam           Exio, * >:)
21:46 Exio               haha
21:46 KikaRz             Just go get some sleep and PIRI PI PIRI PI PI PIRI PIRADINHA
21:46 KikaRz             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsVZQzyKYM
21:49 GhostlyDeath       There are some serious power issues here
21:50 KikaRz             Yes...
21:50 KikaRz             VERY Serious...
21:51 KikaRz             sfan5 can kill you... VanessaE can murder you...
21:51 KikaRz             sokomine, how works your closed fence gates?
21:51 KikaRz             they should open?
21:51 KikaRz             They just flip
21:57 KikaRz             PilzAdam, you grand M+ron, why you don't make a form to spawn sheeps and they reproducting?
21:57 VanessaE           ?
21:58 * VanessaE         wanders off to do something else.
21:59 KikaRz             Oh... and you could... make ducks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oave-jKePH0
21:59 KikaRz             heh.
22:07 sokomine           maps mod? hm, no
22:08 sokomine           kikarz: yes, the fence gates open by dropping to the ground. this type of gate is something you might lean against the rest of the fence rl - that's unpractical in mt, so i just let it drop
22:10 * sokomine         puts up a fence gate and hopes to stop vanessae from wandering off
22:14 thexyz             any non-sleeping windows users here?
22:15 sapier             user no compiler ... recently
22:16 thexyz             to confirm or deny this issue https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/765, official 0.4.7 build
22:16 sokomine           sorry, i don't use windows
22:16 thexyz             sapier: we only need to test official build
22:16 thexyz             sokomine: wine is also OK
22:16 sapier             ok official might work with 1.7 too
22:16 sapier             at least without gettext
22:17 sokomine           hm, wine, yes...you remind me of something. don't think i've got wine installed yet here
22:18 thexyz             sapier: hmm?
22:18 sapier             I didn't try with gettext enabled so I can't tell if it might work or not
22:19 thexyz             sapier: I'm the one who makes official builds and I can assure you it comes with irrlicht 1.8
22:19 sapier             oh you're talking about the binaries?
22:19 thexyz             of course
22:21 thexyz             see?
22:21 thexyz             we don't have windows users
22:21 thexyz             problem solvedr
22:21 PilzAdam           yay!
22:22 Flux1234           188.122.90.142:25565
22:22 Flux1234           Anti Griefing
22:22 Flux1234           Survival
22:22 Flux1234           Donator Ranks
22:22 Flux1234           Staff needed
22:22 Flux1234           More info at our website: outworldservers1.fluctis.com
22:23 thexyz             lol
22:23 PilzAdam           ShadowBot works \o/
22:24 sapier             right after he finished his advertisement
22:30 sokomine           hm. anyone on who runs a (larger) public server and wants to try anything?
22:30 sokomine           needs to be one with rollback enabled
22:31 NakedFury          people will think now we are against server ad
22:42 codedevil          FreeFull: pvp?
22:44 FreeFull           ?
22:44 codedevil          player versus player fight is enabled?
22:44 FreeFull           I'm not that guy
22:46 codedevil          _____ _          ____        _   _
22:46 codedevil          |_   _| |__ __  _| __ )  ___ | |_| |
22:46 codedevil          | | | '_ \\ \/ /  _ \ / _ \| __| |
22:46 codedevil          | | | | | |>  <| |_) | (_) | |_|_|
22:46 codedevil          |_| |_| |_/_/\_\____/ \___/ \__(_)
22:48 codedevil          their server is not working
22:52 PilzAdam           __               __                   __
22:52 PilzAdam           _____ |__| ____   _____/  |_  ____   _______/  |
22:52 PilzAdam           /     \|  |/    \_/ __ \   __\/ __ \ /  ___/\   __\
22:52 PilzAdam           |  Y Y  \  |   |  \  ___/|  | \  ___/ \___ \  |  |
22:52 PilzAdam           |__|_|  /__|___|  /\___  >__|  \___  >____  > |__|
22:52 PilzAdam           \/        \/     \/          \/     \/
22:52 PilzAdam           ShadowNinja, add an exception for that
22:53 codedevil          sfan5: can't connect
22:56 mito551            hey
22:56 PilzAdam           hi mito551
22:56 harrison           ooh i love ascii art
22:56 mito551            hi
22:56 mito551            i actually have got myself wondering
22:57 PilzAdam           harrison, its the right time for #spasim add now ;-)
22:57 mito551            if it would be a good idea to add more sections to the forum
22:57 PilzAdam           *ad
22:57 mito551            to making mod and texturing sorting better
22:57 harrison           mememememememememememmememememememememememememememememememememememememe
22:57 harrison           _        internet insect           .
22:57 harrison           _ __ ___   ___  _ __ ___   ___ | |__   ___  _ __  _ __   ___  _ __ .
22:57 harrison           | '_ ` _ \ / _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \| '_ \ / _ \| '_ \| '_ \ / _ \| '__|.
22:57 harrison           | | | | | |  __/| | | | | |  __/| | | | (_) | |_) | |_) |  __/| |   .
22:57 harrison           |_| |_| |_|\___||_| |_| |_|\___||_| |_|\___/| .__/| .__/ \___||_|   .
22:57 PilzAdam           mito551, I guess the mod manager should do that
22:58 PilzAdam           harrison, please not in this channel
22:58 mito551            i'm looking at newbies
22:58 mito551            who can't find stuff
22:58 mito551            and for one thing
22:58 PilzAdam           the plan is to add a frontend in the Minetest client
22:58 mito551            it's their fucking problem
22:58 mito551            for the other
22:59 mito551            it's our (your) fucking problem
22:59 mito551            oh.
22:59 mito551            so like a texture pack and mod "online browser" ingame?
22:59 mito551            something even mc doesn't have?
22:59 PilzAdam           kinda
22:59 mito551            sounds awesome
22:59 mito551            and still
23:00 mito551            forget the forum
23:00 mito551            i am still wondering
23:00 mito551            why you reject my sounds?
23:00 PilzAdam           mito551, could you please stop splitting your sentences in several lines?
23:00 PilzAdam           thats unreadable
23:00 mito551            ok, just a habit
23:01 mito551            and my mind flows like this. ideas come already after i sent some begging to this idea
23:01 mito551            begining*
23:02 PilzAdam           IMO your sounds arent better than the current ones
23:02 mito551            what about jordan4ibanez's ones?
23:03 PilzAdam           I never saw a proper pull request from him
23:03 PilzAdam           he once passed me 2 or 3 sounfiles, but didnt told me what they are supposed to be
23:03 PilzAdam           +d
23:03 mito551            have you heard them?
23:04 PilzAdam           I have tested the once he gave me
23:04 PilzAdam           he said he wanted to continue it to a complete soundpack for _game
23:05 mito551            did you like it?
23:05 PilzAdam           I dont really know, I only heard 2 sounds of it
23:06 mito551            ok, i found two soundpacks
23:06 mito551            one of them is jordans
23:06 PilzAdam           I can re-test your pull request and give you more precide criticism if you want
23:06 PilzAdam           *precise
23:07 mito551            that would be better
23:07 mito551            when will you do that?
23:07 PilzAdam           tomorrow
23:07 mito551            ok
23:07 mito551            thank you
23:07 PilzAdam           (its 1:07 AM here)
23:07 mito551            i'm looking forward to cooperating with you
23:07 mito551            it 3 am by me
23:08 PilzAdam           russian?
23:09 mito551            yeah
23:11 codedevil          VanessaE: there is some bug
23:11 kahrl              being able to knock out torches with snowballs is a neat little feature
23:11 kahrl              </randomthoughtoftheday>
23:12 codedevil          when ever I go there is phantom noice of doors opening and shutting (or chest)? wtf
23:12 codedevil          VanessaE: wtf
23:13 mito551            kahrl that actually soudns nice
23:13 * sokomine         throws a snowball at kahrl
23:13 PilzAdam           kahrl, I guess flushing torches with water away would be better
23:13 PilzAdam           and other buildable_to or not walkable nodes too
23:13 kahrl              no I was saying that that feature already exists :)
23:14 kahrl              just place the snow on top of a torch
23:14 PilzAdam           oh
23:14 sokomine           if water ever flushes anything away, please don't do it the minecraft way. digging 1 sand close to water and then almost downing in the immense current that creates and that will never end just feels too strange
23:14 sokomine           poor torch :-)
23:14 mito551            good night
23:23 codedevil          how you use travelnet
23:26 khonkhortisan      to set it up or to travel with it?
23:30 codedevil          to set up
23:30 codedevil          ok I did it
23:30 sokomine           just place it somewhere, enter name of station and name of network (leave owner name empty) and it ought to be ready
23:30 * VanessaE         is back.
23:36 PilzAdam           VanessaE, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=94152#p94152
23:37 VanessaE           codedevil: the door open/close sounds have some weird positioning bug that I can't figure out
23:37 VanessaE           and the hear distance is like 30 when it's explicitly set to 5.
23:37 VanessaE           I have no idea how to fix it.
23:38 VanessaE           PilzAdam: done.
23:44 VanessaE           if someone wants to look, https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor/blob/master/doors_and_gates.lua#L308
23:44 VanessaE           why is this code producing sounds that aren't properly localized?
23:46 codedevil          how to list players
23:46 VanessaE           /status
23:47 PilzAdam           VanessaE, read lua-api.txt :-p
23:47 VanessaE           PilzAdam: I did.  how do you think I got sounds working to begin with? :P
23:47 PilzAdam           its (spec, parameters) and not (spec and parameters mixed up to one table)
23:48 sapier             maybe a non mono sound somewhere?
23:48 PilzAdam           nope
23:48 PilzAdam           it would be completly loactionless otherwise
23:48 sapier             true
23:48 PilzAdam           also, why do you keep guessing if I already said the solution
23:49 sapier             hmm didn't realize this was the solution :-)
23:49 VanessaE           PilzAdam: the API doesn't make it clear what to do with parameters versus spec.
23:49 PilzAdam           it does
23:49 VanessaE           where?
23:49 PilzAdam           https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1188
23:49 VanessaE           there is exactly one occurrence of "sound_play" at ...well right there.
23:50 VanessaE           and where are "parameters" defined?
23:50 PilzAdam           Ctrl + F "sound parameter table"
23:50 PilzAdam           Ctrl + F "SimpleSoundSpec"
23:50 VanessaE           there are exactly four occurrences of that word in the API doc, none of which point to such a thing.
23:50 VanessaE           (of "parameters")
23:51 sapier                211
23:51 PilzAdam           https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L211
23:51 VanessaE           *facepalm*
23:51 PilzAdam           you really need to learn how to use Ctrl+F in lua-api.txt :-p
23:51 VanessaE           ok that's the spec.  what are the *parameters*?
23:51 VanessaE           this shit is NOT clearly defined.
23:51 sapier             imho lua_api.txt has become to big and lost lots of use therefore
23:51 PilzAdam           211 are parameters, 235 is spec
23:52 PilzAdam           sapier, its still the most usefull way for me
23:52 kahrl              lua_api.txt is kind of hard to navigate sometimes but there is http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.sound_play
23:52 sapier             maybe we should at least put a note there where to look for the description
23:52 VanessaE           there should be a working example in the API of how to do things like this, especially when it requires looking up more than one level of indirection
23:53 PilzAdam           VanessaE, the dev wiki is for examples
23:53 PilzAdam           lua-api.txt is just a short reference
23:53 VanessaE           I never use the dev wiki because it's not as easily searched.
23:53 VanessaE           kahrl: thanks
23:53 PilzAdam           its good if you already know what you are looking for
23:53 MinerofLands       OldCoder are you available for a pm?
23:54 OldCoder           Hi
23:54 OldCoder           Yes
23:54 sapier             lua_api.txt is suboptimal I guess thinking about how to improve it is usefull ... even if we don't find a quick solution
23:54 PilzAdam           MinerofLands, the code for the economy game is pretty much done
23:54 PilzAdam           MinerofLands, now all the content needs to be added
23:54 MinerofLands       that is great to hear PilzAdam...what type of content i can do it today
23:55 PilzAdam           the crafting levels and "worthiness" fields for all items need to be done
23:55 PilzAdam           and also include more mods than default
23:55 PilzAdam           sapier, dont touch lua-api.txt, better improve the dev wiki
23:56 sapier             I don't have dev wiki if I'm offline
23:56 sapier             and I don't trust it either as it's way more outdated that lua_api.txt .. later one is at least enforced by commit policy
23:57 PilzAdam           I dont want lua-api.txt to get bloated
23:57 PilzAdam           its fast, precise and accurate
23:57 sapier             it already is bloated
23:57 sapier             sorry to tell you
23:57 PilzAdam           the API is maybe bloated ;-)
23:58 sapier             no api is complex ... and as everywhere as complexity rises simple methods wont be usefull to manage it at some point
23:58 PilzAdam           it is not the goal to be user friendly in lua-api.txt, just give a complete (and short) reference of the API
23:59 sapier             a documentation not beeing userfriendly is as having noc documentation at all
23:59 kahrl              perhaps a parser could be written that produces an interlinked HTML or PDF version of lua_api.txt
23:59 PilzAdam           feel free to write lua-api.pdf