Time Nick Message 00:01 Vadtec egad those blocks are hard on the eyes 00:01 Uberi nyancat tail :) 00:02 Jordach isp is no longer throttling 00:03 Vadtec oh...so thats what happened...a bunch of the -dev libs i had installed before were removed because they were out of date for 12.04...but it didnt bother installing the new versions during upgrade 00:03 Vadtec how brilliant 00:05 sapier Those of you interested in secure mods try out https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/495 be aware that security needs to be enabled explicitly! 00:05 sapier It's far less invasive than old way of doing it but still will limit mods 00:07 Uberi nice, sapier 00:07 sapier you still won't be able to open /etc/passwd with this version ;-) 00:07 Uberi I can accept this one as a reasonable comprimise between security and functionality 00:07 Vadtec weeeeeeeee compiling with 6 cores ftw 00:08 sapier uberi this doesn't allow more than old one 00:08 Uberi sapier: yes, but backwards compatibility is VERY important 00:08 sapier it's not compatible at all if mods do things not allowed 00:09 Vadtec random though: give blocks UNIX style permissions and drive people nuts :P 00:09 sapier they'll get an error with this version too 00:11 sapier have a look at line 80 to 100 I've almost disabled whole os and io functions ... it'd be far less work to replace those 2 functions remaining ;-P 00:11 sapier vadtec this isn't about map content "security" at all it's about host system security 00:12 sokomine vadtec: we have that with some mods already :-) protected areas on multiplayer servers 00:12 Uberi although if you ask me, it should be the server owner's responsibility to check for mod integrity, rather than hobbling the modders :) 00:13 sapier you'll reconsider after some mod got your passwords sent to some attackers server 00:14 Uberi you could say that for any program, really 00:14 sapier and uberi there's almost no way any server hoster could review any version of mobf 00:15 sapier uberi you shouldn't install arbitrary programs downloaded either ;-) 00:15 Uberi exactly 00:15 Uberi server owners should not install untrusted mods 00:15 sapier so they should install only simple mods in your opinion? 00:16 Vadtec sokomine: oh, my mistake, but i sitll think unix style perms would be hilarious 00:16 Vadtec for blocks :P 00:16 Uberi sapier: no no, trusted mods 00:17 Uberi to use the program analogy again, I download Firefox, which is not at all simple, and install it because I trust mozilla 00:17 sapier uberi I don't think you are aware what is neccesary to trust any binary data ? 00:17 Vadtec wooooooooooo! got connected to my local server 00:17 Uberi sapier: I'm quite aware, yes 00:17 Uberi Vadtec: congratulations :) 00:18 Uberi go have fun and play around 00:18 sapier and lots of ppl already got malware because of failing to download from correct page and got protected by virus scanners 00:18 sapier bit there aren't any virus scanners around protecting agains lua mods 00:18 Vadtec Uberi: my goal now would be to implement BuildCraft, Industrial Craft, and RedPower from the mc community 00:18 Uberi Vadtec: no need :) 00:18 Uberi try Mesecons + Technic 00:19 * sokomine drops a few blocks of sand on vadtec :-) 00:19 Uberi sapier: virus scanners are about as effective at binary data as they are at lua mods (read: not very) 00:19 Uberi anyone can write a virus that gets past a scanner 00:19 sapier virus scanners are effective on standard attacks 00:19 sapier lua mods aren't standard attacks so they can't protect at all 00:20 Uberi neither are nonstandard viruses 00:20 sapier true but normal user isn't very likely to be attacked by a special virus 00:20 Vadtec Uberi: checking them out now 00:21 Uberi sapier: I saw a shellcode exploit recently that would serve up a different virus to every user, malware technology is coming a long way :P 00:21 sapier still it's not a big change for modders if they can only write files in world and user folder .. they shouldn't write anywhere else either ;-P 00:21 Uberi but yeah I see your point 00:21 Uberi I'm not complaining, but it's something that I am wondering about 00:22 Vadtec Uberi: so mesecons=red power (sorta), and technic=buildcraft/industrial craft (sorta) 00:22 sapier neither should a mod be allowed to delete any file 00:23 sapier or execute an application 00:23 Uberi sorta, yeah 00:24 mauvebic that should kinda be up to server owners who chose their mods 00:24 Uberi sapier: as a sort of counterexample, I needed to execute mkdir in WE to save schematics 00:24 Uberi but of course the security is configurable 00:25 sapier you don't need it but I see it's comfortable 00:25 sapier still you'd be fine if you only could mkdir within world or user folder 00:25 Uberi sapier: no no, we do need it because lua has no way of creating folders 00:25 Uberi that's why I'm excited about the file API 00:26 sapier no you don't need it if it can be done by minetest api addition 00:26 Uberi exactly 00:26 Uberi but not a moment before 00:26 sapier there's no reason NOT to add this feature 00:26 Uberi but first the file API needs to be added 00:27 Uberi as well as the ability to do the number of myriad legitimate things that we used that functionality for 00:27 sokomine such a feature would be great, yes. it's annoying if mods have to know which os they run on just to execute the right shell command to get a directory... 00:27 Uberi plus things like the IRC mod must be made possible somehow 00:28 Uberi so that means we need some sort of controlled support for external libs 00:28 Uberi or a network API 00:28 sapier uberi you'll always find a thing you have forgotton this is no excuse for not adding security 00:29 Uberi sapier: it's no excuse for making a whole bunch of existing mods impossible, either, though 00:29 sapier if you wan't security you'll have to disable anything first and enable features as you need them and think about any function you enable 00:29 Vadtec is the list of server commands on the wiki mostly accurate? or should i be looking elsewhere for server commands? 00:29 Uberi Vadtec: try /help 00:29 sapier if you enable everything you'll always forget some function 00:29 Uberi it will list all commands currently installed 00:29 Vadtec Uberi: thanks 00:29 Uberi no problem :) 00:30 sapier a whole bunch? there are at most 3 mods out there that couln't do without this 00:30 sapier most are just to lazy to do it correct 00:30 Vadtec :o i cant use /grant lol 00:30 Vadtec think im about to have to edit a config file 00:30 Uberi sapier: how do you propose we use the IRC mod without network access? 00:31 sapier network access is something inherently dangerous 00:31 Uberi so the IRC mod should be made impossible as a result then? 00:31 VanessaE only if your networking libraries etc are weak 00:32 Uberi yep 00:32 sapier I don't know of any network librarys with capabilitys to verify destination 00:32 VanessaE the problem isn't verifying anything - the problem is exploiting what's at the remote end 00:32 VanessaE if the remote's network stack, server utils, etc. are weak, they can be compromised 00:33 Uberi but why do we need to verify the destination? 00:33 sapier but network is a different problem ... if network support is wanted this library should be added to core and loading enabled per config setting 00:33 VanessaE I agree. 00:33 Uberi any remote code executed is in the sandbox of security, yes? 00:33 VanessaE the engine should have some kind of basic networking library that mods can hook into 00:33 Uberi yes, that's my point 00:33 sapier you don't open up your garage door in dangerous neighbourhood just to let your dog pass whenever he wants 00:33 VanessaE Uberi: dunno, but if your server runs as an unprivileged user, like mine does, what can a hacker possibly do but maybe wipe out files associated with that user? 00:34 VanessaE (which backups exist for) 00:34 Uberi VanessaE: not even that, since we are assuming the hacker's code runs in a sandbox 00:34 Uberi so there is really no risk of allowing network access, technically 00:34 Uberi since you already assume the code is untrusted and possibly malicious 00:34 sapier currently he's able to try all those local exploits available ... and local exploits aren't fixed as fast as remote vulnerabilities 00:35 sapier uberi hackers code isn't running in a sandbox atm 00:35 sapier lua isn't a sandbox at all 00:35 Uberi then that's a sandbox deficiency, is it not? 00:35 Uberi (oh I refer the the secure env as a sandbox, btw) 00:35 sapier no lua just isn't designed to be a sandbox 00:36 sapier what do you mean with "secure env" 00:36 Uberi sapier: the environment in which the patch has disabled all dangerous functionality 00:36 Vadtec ok...am i missing something, i set my privs to all in the auth.txt file and restarted the server 00:37 Vadtec the /privs command says i have all privs 00:37 Uberi yes, Vadtec? 00:37 Vadtec but i still cant use fast move 00:37 Vadtec nor does /grant work 00:37 Uberi did you press Shift + J? 00:37 Vadtec no, just j 00:37 sapier ok this should slow down hackers 00:37 Uberi try Shift + J 00:37 Vadtec either one tells me "no fastmove privs" 00:38 Uberi sapier: slow down hackers? 00:38 Uberi if the hackers can get around the sandbox remotely, a mod can do the same thing 00:38 sapier no sandbox is perfect uberi 00:38 Uberi then how do the theoretical malicious hackers get around it? 00:39 Vadtec Uberi: it tells me i dont have the "fast" priv, and /grant Vadtec fast tells me i dont have enough privs to do that 00:39 sapier buffer overflows, fill filesystem ... some things I haven't seen when creating sandbox ... I can't disable raw access functions for example as all those register functions depend on it 00:40 Uberi Vadtec: do you have the server priv? 00:40 Vadtec in auth.txt i set my priv to all 00:41 Uberi hmm, maybe try adding server 00:41 Uberi sapier: I hope you don't mind my playing devil's advocate, but buffer overflows in that code would also leave it vulnerable to buffer overflows in the remote media fetching, right? 00:44 sapier of course 00:45 Uberi as well as a bunch of other networking code in Minetest itself, as a result 00:45 * Jordach has finally worked out blander 00:45 Jordach blender 00:45 Uberi (I know, MT doesn't use curl for most networking stuff, but in theory) 00:45 Vadtec Uberi: i added all,privs,server to my auth and i can do stuff now 00:45 sapier I've added mkdir rmdir and remove support to security patches 00:45 sapier limited to user and world folder of course 00:46 sapier anything else (except of networking) you require uberi? 00:46 Uberi sapier: no no, I didn't need much along those lines, but I did want to share my concerns with you 00:47 sapier yes and I do value your concerns as they are legit I've added this 00:47 Uberi thanks :) 00:47 sapier still if someone asks for execute permission I don't consider this a legit operation for a mod 00:48 Uberi the main purpose is to reduce these hacky workarounds and provide better ways to do them 00:49 sapier execute to do dir operations is a hack so adding this feature was already necessar 00:49 sapier y 00:49 Uberi yeah 00:50 sapier it's os.mkdir and os.rmdir now ... ok I haven't tested it 00:50 Uberi ooh, nice 00:50 Uberi is there also a directory listing method? 00:50 sapier plz try and tell me if it's going to work (it's available with security enabled only) 00:52 * Jordach tries to make a nice model and ends up with a nuke 00:52 MiJyn Jordach, nice! xD 00:52 Uberi Jordach: make that a mod! 00:53 Jordach ...just gave it a wingtip 00:53 Uberi nuke with wingtip! 00:55 Jordach impaling spikes now 00:56 MiJyn haha 00:56 MiJyn ok 00:57 Vadtec is it just my install, or does stuff rendering in the distance not render consitently? like, i can see whats under the water at the edge of the render zone, but the water itself hasnt rendered 00:58 NekoGloop Yup. 00:58 Vadtec NekoGloop: so...is it me or the rendering engine? 00:58 Vadtec lol 00:59 NekoGloop the rendering is borked 00:59 Vadtec kk 01:01 Vadtec awwww, you cant fly under water 01:01 Vadtec lol 01:02 Uberi Vadtec: do you have worldedit yet? 01:02 Vadtec Uberi: nope, im still playing with stock MT 01:03 Uberi ah, well then I might be a little biased, but WE and Mesecons are essential to the MT experience :) 01:04 Vadtec eeep...i just flew through a whole big mountain 01:04 Vadtec what happened to the collision detection lol 01:05 Uberi you have fly mode on 01:05 Uberi do you have noclip? 01:05 Vadtec theres a whole big section of blocks i can just fly through lol 01:05 Vadtec noclip priv? or a mod? 01:05 RealBadAngel noclip is a priv 01:05 RealBadAngel toggled with H 01:06 Vadtec i guess, since i gave my self "all" 01:06 Vadtec but...why can i fly through blocks but not water with novlip? 01:06 Vadtec noclip* 01:06 RealBadAngel answer is 42 01:07 Uberi you can't fly through water? what happens? 01:07 Vadtec when i get to the water i stop and cant pass through it 01:07 Vadtec i just did /revoke Vadtec noclip 01:07 Vadtec and i can still fly through these blocks 01:07 Uberi hmm that is pretty strange 01:07 Vadtec i wonder... 01:08 Vadtec im using mt0.4.4 client 01:08 Vadtec and when i start it, it says it might not be fully compatible with the server im connected to 01:08 Vadtec which i installed that version Jordach linked me earlier 01:09 Vadtec could that be the issue? 01:09 RealBadAngel propably he gave you link to newer build 01:09 Vadtec oh wait! 01:09 RealBadAngel 0.4.4 is latest stable 01:09 Vadtec the wiki says "K" is fly 01:09 Uberi shift K 01:09 Vadtec but when i press it in the client it says "free move" 01:09 Uberi that's basically what fly is 01:10 Vadtec but is that supposed to disable collision detection like that? 01:10 RealBadAngel no 01:10 RealBadAngel collision detection is toggled with noclip priv 01:10 RealBadAngel H on your keyboard 01:10 Vadtec well there is a section about 128x128 in size i can fly through even with noclip turned off 01:11 Vadtec H does nothing for me, and i even revoked noclip for my self 01:11 RealBadAngel what is the build of server? 01:12 Vadtec ummm, sec 01:12 Vadtec RealBadAngel: Jordach linked me this: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/archive/master.zip 01:13 Vadtec 0.4.4-d1 01:13 Vadtec according to the client 01:13 RealBadAngel so you have compiled latest from source and connectin with 0.4.4 stable to it? 01:13 RealBadAngel why? 01:14 Vadtec because the server is on linux and I dont have a cross compile enviro setup atm and my client is on win7 01:14 RealBadAngel hold on a sec 01:14 Uberi Vadtec: try a nightly windows build 01:15 RealBadAngel http://sfan.sf.funpic.de/minetest-builds/ 01:15 RealBadAngel pick your download from here 01:16 RealBadAngel latest, of course 01:17 Vadtec http://sfan.sf.funpic.de/minetest-builds/c55/minetest-0.4.4-1d13d10-win32.7z <--- i assume is latest? 01:17 Vadtec derp 01:17 Vadtec ignore me 01:17 Vadtec didnt read far enough 01:18 * Vadtec gives himself a durka durka badge for the day 01:20 * VanessaE kicks her computer for being stupid 01:20 RealBadAngel watch it, it can kick you back ;) 01:20 Vadtec or it might format itself 01:20 Vadtec however, HITTING a computer is perfectly safe 01:21 Vadtec they just do what they are told when they get hit 01:21 Uberi yeah it'll open the CD tray and shoot out CDs like razor blades 01:22 RealBadAngel and let the mouse bite you 01:22 VanessaE in that case I'll go to the store and buy a shotgun. :-) 01:22 Vadtec when i run that nightly build i get "the ordinal 55 could not be located in the DLL zlib1.dll" 01:22 Vadtec and then it exits when i click ok 01:23 RealBadAngel ? funny, broken build? try next one to latest 01:24 RealBadAngel http://minetest.ru/builds/minetest-2013.02.16-8d920dd09b.zip 01:24 RealBadAngel or try this one 01:25 VanessaE also, I'm gonna shoot the moron who decided that file:///blahblah/blah/blah%20foo%2cbar%20and%20baz was a smart way to handle LOCAL filee 01:25 VanessaE files* 01:25 Vadtec same error from 2nd to latest, lemme try that other link then 01:26 Vadtec if i had a decent compiler for win id just do that lol 01:29 Vadtec RealBadAngel: that last link worked (started) 01:29 Vadtec lemme check out the collision detection 01:29 Vadtec MUCH better :P 01:30 Vadtec so i guess the current nightly is busted lol 01:30 RealBadAngel propably some libraries not included 01:30 RealBadAngel http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1523 01:31 Vadtec ah 01:31 * Vadtec bookmarks 01:31 RealBadAngel go level up 01:31 RealBadAngel there are 3 topics with windows builds 01:32 Vadtec i just need to get something like cygwin or my cross compile envrio setup again 01:32 Vadtec then i can build on my own 01:32 RealBadAngel better compile on linux 01:32 Vadtec but damn cross compile is a bitch to keep current 01:34 mrtux I just compiled Minetest on my arch linux computer 01:35 mrtux and when I ran it and connected to a server 01:35 mrtux the display started screwing up 01:35 mrtux and minetest segfaulted. 01:35 mrtux Do I need the propietary nvidia drivers? 01:36 RealBadAngel you should try them 01:36 mrtux okay. 01:37 mrtux I guess you would think it would work as my graphics card is old. 01:41 telek mrtux: Actually the nvidia open source drivers are better with 2 year old cards and worse with both newer and older cards I believe. 01:41 mrtux I have a Nvidia GeForce FX 5200. 01:42 mrtux on the arch wiki it says: 01:42 mrtux For GeForce 5 FX series cards [NV30-NV38], install nvidia-173xx package, available in the AUR. 01:42 mrtux should be what I need I think. 01:44 telek Yeah 01:44 mrtux okay 01:44 mrtux thanks. 01:44 telek Beats ATI anyhow. 01:44 mrtux yeah 01:44 telek If the open source drivers don't work you're SOL because the FGLRX drivers only run on whatever 5 kernel minors they were compiled during (if that) 01:45 telek And only that particular xorg revision. 01:45 mrtux alright. 01:52 Vadtec is there a complete list of items in stock MT somewhere? looking on the wiki im only finding partial lists 01:52 Vadtec and a lot of mod stuff it seems 01:55 Vadtec wow caves in MT are...big...and dangerous 01:55 Vadtec glad i can fly lol 02:02 Vadtec so does anyone have the list of items? 02:03 Vadtec http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Item_Codes/default 02:03 Vadtec a lot of those arent working 02:03 Vadtec like "pick_steel" 02:04 VanessaE you have to prepend them with 'default". 02:04 VanessaE default:pick_mese and so on 02:04 Vadtec oh, even if you arent using mods i guess 02:05 VanessaE yup 02:05 VanessaE because default IS a mod. 02:05 sokomine the invasion of npc... 02:05 Vadtec VanessaE: ah, gotcha 02:07 Vadtec i really like the cave algo in MT 02:07 Vadtec it makes for some realistic caves and such 02:09 RealBadAngel Vadtec, install this mod http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3933 02:09 sokomine they might be realistic. i think they're a bit big... 02:09 RealBadAngel read the post about install 02:09 Vadtec RealBadAngel: yer a godsend, i was looking for a mod just like that lol 02:09 RealBadAngel then click on craft, then item to the lelft 02:10 sokomine optimal for players who want to live underground...else...huge and a distraction from mining 02:10 RealBadAngel it will tell you item name 02:10 VanessaE RealBadAngel: that reminds me: you need to allow for someone to move an item from their inventory into the crafting result slot when in Craft Guide mode 02:11 VanessaE so they don't have to find and select it from the creative inventory 02:11 Vadtec sokomine: as someone who enjoys playing dwarven chacaters in D&D and games...hehe, i dont mind caves 02:12 Vadtec so...MT isnt braindead stupid about mods like MC is right? basically just drop them in the mods dir and reload your client and they work without a bunch of BS... 02:15 Vadtec RealBadAngel: question, since im running a server, do I need to put that mod on the server? 02:15 Vadtec or my client? 02:15 RealBadAngel server 02:15 Vadtec and still delete the /creative folder 02:16 RealBadAngel /games/minetest_game/mods/creative 02:17 Vadtec right 02:18 Vadtec wow thats nice 02:18 Vadtec specially since it can be loaded from the server 02:19 Vadtec being able to load mods from the server is damn handy imo 02:19 Vadtec makes it so much easier to ensure consistent clients 02:20 VanessaE they don't load from the server, as such 02:20 VanessaE just the images/sounds/models 02:20 VanessaE the code still runs on the server. 02:20 RealBadAngel VanessaE, updated UI in technic with that feature 02:20 VanessaE RealBadAngel: thanks 02:21 RealBadAngel it work only in creative of course ;) 02:22 VanessaE right 02:22 Vadtec VanessaE: so...all mods could technically be run from the server? or are there still mods that would be client side? 02:22 VanessaE they always run from the server 02:22 Vadtec oh sweet 02:22 VanessaE there are no client-side mods. 02:23 sokomine vadtec: then you'll surely enjoy those large caves :-) 02:23 RealBadAngel even single player game means that server is launched on local 02:23 VanessaE when you're in single player mode, you're technically running a server + client at the same time, the game just doesn't make a big deal of it 02:23 Vadtec right, i get that 02:23 Vadtec but i wasnt aware the client is nothing more than a GUI per se 02:23 Vadtec and that mods are running on the server itself 02:23 VanessaE though there has been a lot of talk lately about making client-side mods possible, not sure what the progress is on that front. 02:24 Vadtec i for one hope it doesnt happen 02:24 Vadtec for a myriad of reasons 02:24 RealBadAngel those could be good for gfx mods 02:24 sokomine hm, maybe you could call some ways of cheating "mods" on the client side (i.e. flying without that priv) 02:24 Vadtec foremost being the ease of making sure your clients have everything necessary to connect to your server 02:24 Vadtec and that there are no version conflicts etc 02:25 RealBadAngel or for mods like ambience 02:25 VanessaE oh nonono I think the idea behind client-side mods would be, for example, particles 02:25 VanessaE things that only you need to see/hear 02:25 * sokomine nods to vanessa 02:25 VanessaE ambiance is another good example of something that ought to be client-side 02:25 Vadtec im going to use mc as an example...there was a server I played on that ran buildcraft and industrial craft...if the mc client didnt match EXACTLY what the server had, you couldnt even connect 02:26 Vadtec ok, ambiance etc i agree with 02:26 sokomine true. would save downloading their data (which is annoying especially if you don't want to hear anything and have speakers off) 02:26 Vadtec but as for functionality, that all needs to be server side 02:27 sokomine vadtec: sounds more trouble than in mt. in mt, you ought to have a version of client roughly suitable to the server as far as version goes. even that is not very strict anymore 02:27 RealBadAngel but on the other hand when using music player on a server it was fun 02:27 VanessaE Vadtec: the difference between that and MT is that MT doesn't do versioning by mod content 02:27 RealBadAngel when i was getting close to players house that listened to some music, it was getting louder 02:28 RealBadAngel pretty neat 02:28 Vadtec VanessaE: i was referrign to the fact that you had server side libs and client side libs that had to match *exactly* in order for you to even connect 02:28 Vadtec if the server updated and you didnt, you were screwed 02:28 VanessaE right, see that doesn't happen with MT 02:28 VanessaE and won't. 02:28 VanessaE because we don't mix up the concept of client-side vs. server-side. 02:28 Vadtec and never mind all the mod conflicts n crap like that 02:29 Vadtec i may have to fully learn LUA now 02:29 RealBadAngel if you want to do so just read other mods 02:29 VanessaE do it. you'll be glad you did. 02:29 Vadtec if thats all it takes to make mods for MT (in a nutshell) Ill finally have a reason to add it to my list of langs i know 02:30 VanessaE yup, that's all it takes - Lua and knowledge of the minetest modding API 02:30 Vadtec though the old school coder in me really wants to dive back into C/C++ land and have fun there 02:30 VanessaE skills in texturing and audio mastering are helpful though 02:30 RealBadAngel sure, i went same way 02:30 Vadtec or maybe not...ive been in Python land for a very long time now, i dont know if i can tolerate C++ any more lol 02:30 RealBadAngel lotsa fun coding for the engine 02:31 sokomine i do have a question about spawning (if there is already a good function for that): i have an area (maybe 10x10 nodes width) with a house in it and want to spawn an npc there. what i need is a way to locate a space in that area that has (from bottom to top) ground to stand on, air, air (basicly: space for the npc to exist) 02:31 Vadtec i suppose if i wanted to try and kill my self i could try to do a python interface lol 02:32 RealBadAngel look for ground node in given radius 02:32 RealBadAngel take its pos and check 2 nodes above if its air 02:34 sokomine ground may vary depending on what the house is build of. so maybe i ought to take just a random position, check that and either go up or down. hm. roofs might be problematic 02:34 Vadtec RealBadAngel: maybe im being braindead...im trying to craft a chest using your mod, but when I click craft, i dont get anything, and dragging it doesnt seem to work either 02:35 RealBadAngel craft is name of tab 02:35 sokomine you usually craft a chest by filling your crafting grid with wooden planks - except for the middle slot. that one remains empty. if you want a locked chest, put a steel_ingot there 02:35 RealBadAngel press this button to show crafting grids 02:35 VanessaE RealBadAngel: change "Craft" to "Crafting" 02:35 sokomine that's the same way as in mc 02:35 VanessaE to say "Craft" does sort of imply an action rather than a capability 02:36 Vadtec sokomine: i get that...lol 02:36 sokomine many receipes are at least similar 02:36 sokomine ok :-) 02:36 Vadtec RealBadAngel: yeah, thats the confusion, i thought Craft meant it would make the item 02:36 Vadtec not that it was a tab 02:36 sokomine you do pull that thing with the mouse into your inventory. guess that counts as "craft" :-) 02:36 RealBadAngel i will change that in the future, need to make bar there instead of buttons 02:36 sokomine ah, crafting guide. ok 02:37 Vadtec the thing is, when i click on the chest in the list on the left, it takes me to the crafting guide 02:37 Vadtec or is this mod just a guide and doesnt do it for you 02:38 Vadtec i guess its intended functionality isnt clear to me 02:38 Vadtec i liken it to CraftBook for MC 02:38 MiJyn we all like cheap golf clubs on minetest forums, don't we? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=71040#p71040 02:38 MiJyn :P 02:39 MiJyn wait, they aren' 02:39 MiJyn *aren't cheap.... dang.... oh well, I like having pro's golf clubs :P 02:39 sokomine maybe someone wants to build a mod for a golf course :-) 02:40 MiJyn haha hmm, that'd actaully be a cool idea! 02:40 MiJyn *actually 02:41 RealBadAngel if you are in surrival mode clickin an item in list shows you crafting 02:41 Vadtec RealBadAngel: pretty sure im not in survival as there are no mobs :P 02:41 RealBadAngel when you are in creative it places full stack of it into your inventory 02:42 Vadtec weird 02:42 Vadtec how do i know which mode im in? 02:42 NekoGloop there ARE no mobs. 02:42 RealBadAngel youre in surrival mode, mobs are added by mods too 02:43 Vadtec ok...someone take my head, place it between a door and a door frame...and get all these misconceptions about MT because ive played MC out of my head 02:43 Vadtec please 02:43 VanessaE NekoGloop: only remember that there is no MOB, it is only you that attacks players. 02:43 VanessaE no, that doesn't work does it. 02:43 VanessaE :) 02:45 Vadtec hmmmmmm, i think i found a bug with the client im using...if you open a chest, you cant move with WASD until you move the mouse 02:45 VanessaE old bug. 02:45 VanessaE everyone has that issue. 02:45 Vadtec well at least i found it :P i wouldnt be a good programmer if i didnt 02:46 VanessaE it happens almost anywhere that a formspec is used 02:46 VanessaE chests, furnaces, etc 02:46 ShadowNinja bigger bug, sometimes the chest gets replaced by what you are holding 02:46 ShadowNinja as if it were buildable to 02:47 VanessaE yeah I've seen that happen with other nodes also on rare occasion 02:48 telek Oh another issue with the current physics code. 02:48 telek Jumping out of water gives you superspeed moving forward? 02:48 VanessaE this apparently is intentional, but a little buggy in my opinion 02:48 telek Also e keeps making foot noises when you're already touching the 'bottom' of a pool of water. 02:49 telek Same here. 02:49 VanessaE I ain't a fricken DOLPHIN damn it :-) 02:49 telek :) 02:49 telek That actually would be a BENEFIT of the code if you could recreate normal behavior in it. 02:49 telek Allow multiple player 'races' with different physics for different types of materials. 02:50 Vadtec so, mod question (for my own reference)...how does MT handle mods creating items? is there some sort of conflict resolution to handle random mods adding random items? 02:50 telek Like humans who're slower on stone than dwarves, elves who're faster on grass/in forests, etc. 02:50 telek Vadtec: First come first served I believe. 02:51 telek Well for recipes, I think it'll throw errors on duplicate item definitions. 02:51 Vadtec so its still possible for items to collide 02:51 sokomine every item has a name in the form modname:itemname 02:52 Vadtec so items arent really numbered, but instead are referred to by name 02:52 sokomine accidental collusion would thus only occour if two mods bear the same name 02:52 Vadtec ergo, no conflicts unless two mods are named the same with the same items 02:52 sokomine right. there's no numbering. only naming 02:52 Vadtec very nice 02:53 Vadtec numbering should be an internal thing only, not something the mod user has to deal with 02:53 sokomine if you remove a mod from your server, your world will contain unknown items. if you add that mod back, the unknown items will become known again 02:54 Vadtec that could lead to some interesting things lol 02:54 sokomine that's about the only situation where modnames are overloaded (to keep compatibilty with older versions). that's very intentional then to keep things working :-) 02:54 Vadtec make a massive bridge....get all yer people on it...restart server sans bridge mod...so evil :P 02:56 VanessaE wouldn't do anything. 02:56 VanessaE the bridge would just turn into unknown blocks. 02:56 Vadtec oh 02:56 Vadtec well...not as fun then 02:57 Vadtec i guess id have to load another mod that made those blocks into air then lol 02:58 sokomine too much work. just change the walkable-property of the node your bridge is made out of 02:58 Vadtec heh 02:59 Vadtec the fact that i can add mods to the server and my kids can use them without me having to maintain their clients is gonna be golden 03:00 Vadtec i have an old dell lappy thats like a 1.6Ghz with 1.5-2G of ram 03:00 Vadtec would that be enough to run MT (client) on? 03:00 jojoa1997 olcoder 03:01 ShadowNinja Vadec: yes 03:01 ShadowNinja and server 03:01 Vadtec sweet! now both my kids can have a lappy to play MT on...they have had to share the one good lappy i have lol 03:01 ShadowNinja mt is designed to use little resources 03:02 Vadtec of course, its not written in java with its moronic garbage collector that doesnt work 03:02 Vadtec well 03:02 ShadowNinja a better computer will give you nicer graphics though 03:02 Vadtec rephrase, its moronic garbage collector that java programmers dont know how to use properly 03:03 ShadowNinja I personaly use a i5 with 2.5 or so ghz and builtin grphics 03:03 ShadowNinja graphics* 03:03 Vadtec i have my lenovo lappy thats an i5 3.2ghz with 4g of ram and a fairly decent GPU 03:04 Vadtec and then that old dell lappy 03:04 ShadowNinja then you should have no trouble 03:04 Vadtec my kids are gonna love this 03:04 Vadtec btw...how do you take screen shots in MT? print screen like normal? 03:05 ShadowNinja f12 03:05 Vadtec ah 03:05 Vadtec the landscaping in MT is so much better than MC 03:05 ShadowNinja new mapgen v6 03:06 ShadowNinja v7 comming soon... 03:06 Vadtec i can only hope v7 is even more kick ass 03:07 Vadtec maybe i can get volcanos and/or meteor craters in v8 :P 03:07 ShadowNinja do you have mt runnibg now? 03:07 ShadowNinja running* 03:07 Vadtec yeah 03:08 Vadtec screwing around with stock MT for now 03:08 Vadtec was gonna get more familiar with it 03:09 Vadtec then look at some of the mods people have mentioned today 03:09 ShadowNinja want to try a server? 03:09 Vadtec sure 03:10 Vadtec man...i really LIKE the idea that i can connect to any server i want and dont have to dick around with the client trying to get it to work 03:10 ShadowNinja try menche.servegame.com 03:10 VanessaE aw y u no point him to my server? :-( 03:11 NekoGloop Because your server is later than last stable. 03:11 ShadowNinja I was thinking survival 03:11 VanessaE heh true 03:11 RealBadAngel hes not using stable 03:11 ShadowNinja I would recomend latest git 03:11 Vadtec im using whatever RealBadAngel linked me to 03:11 Vadtec but i have the latest stable on my machine 03:11 Vadtec if thats what id need 03:12 VanessaE I don't think my server works with stable :-) 03:12 RealBadAngel hes using latest builds 03:12 ShadowNinja go to forums > general disucission > sfan5/xyz/PilzAdams builds 03:13 NekoGloop He'd need to be using a proper os, ShadowNinja. 03:13 ShadowNinja he has latest? 03:13 Vadtec lol 03:13 Vadtec well said NekoGloop 03:13 Vadtec i have minetest-0.4.4-win32 from the MT website 03:13 Vadtec and minetest-2013.02.16-8d920dd09b from RealBadAngel 03:13 NekoGloop Ah, he is using a proper os. 03:14 RealBadAngel NekoGloop, he has linux too :P 03:14 ShadowNinja well that will do, you just won't be able to use locked chests 03:14 Vadtec RealBadAngel: only as a VPS on this win7 box sadly 03:14 NekoGloop Burn. 03:14 Vadtec but i bet mt would still run decently even via the VPS window 03:14 hmmmm Windows is a defective product, don't see why anybody would use it. They'd have to be stupid to. 03:14 hmmmm ;-) 03:15 ShadowNinja comming on? 03:15 Vadtec hmmmm: one word: Skyrim 03:15 hmmmm That was sorta targeted at Neko 03:15 Vadtec ShadowNinja: which version do i need to use? 0.4.4-win32? 03:15 ShadowNinja that will work 03:15 Vadtec hmmmm: lol, well my reason still stands :P 03:16 ShadowNinja you can get locked chests working if you upgrade though 03:16 NekoGloop hmmmm: I only want to be able to play every computer game in the history of ever. 03:16 VanessaE hmmmm: that emerge patch you had me try definitely helped - I've since ended up back in upstream master, and of course the map loader barfs periodically. 03:16 telek VanessaE: Does the conifer mod interfere with your moretrees mod? 03:16 VanessaE telek: no, but if you have moretrees, you don't need conifers. Moretrees will fill in for it. 03:17 VanessaE at least it'll define the nodes etc. anyway 03:17 Vadtec ShadowNinja: locked chests arent important right now, learning MT is 03:17 telek Oh cool. 03:17 Vadtec :P 03:17 hmmmm vanessa, i'm not done with the emerge stuff yet. 03:17 VanessaE note that moretrees uses a bunch of aliases, so it'll convert conifers trees to moretrees naming convention. 03:17 VanessaE hmmmm: I know, no rush. Just pointing out that your code definitely worked well. 03:17 telek Yeah that's fine :) 03:18 VanessaE telek: ditto for bas080's jungle trees mod. moretrees covers that one also, though I need to radically increase the number of generated jungle trees. 03:18 hmmmm have a paper to write and other work to do, but i just need to finish up the thread priority stuff and i should be good 03:19 telek Sweet VanessaE, helps consolidate possible points of failure :) 03:19 hmmmm i'm not sure if it'll work on Linux right out of the box, i keep hearing about problems with NPTL 03:19 VanessaE wow I'm so spoiled. I just had to resort to using my secondary (spinning rust) drive to process a bunch of large files because my SSD hasn't enough free space and G*D IS IT SLOW by comparison :-) 03:21 telek VanessaE: Yep, yep they are :D 03:21 telek Flipside though is unlike SSDs they've got the potential to last longer (or shorter) with as many 'write cycle' issues. 03:21 VanessaE eh not really 03:21 telek s/with/without/ 03:22 VanessaE in practice, an SSD will last you for years and years 03:26 telek I don't remember what size, but I'd heard maybe 120-240gig was good for like ~14 terabytes of write cycles (I think total, not per cell) 03:26 telek I could burn through that in a year or two given enough compiles, swapping, etc. 03:26 NekoGloop An ssd is what, precisely? 03:27 hmmmm i've heard a lot about SSDs failing prematurely 03:27 telek Is the unified_inventory in Calinou's modpack the same as the one RBA just released? 03:27 telek Solid State Drive. 03:27 telek Flash memory like in your cell phone, or the bios for your computer. 03:27 hmmmm it's incredible how something that by all logic would be more reliable, isn't 03:28 telek It's realiable as a pseudo read-only material 03:28 hmmmm i didn't get an SSD for my new computer even though i could've gotten a 128gb samsung 830 for $80 03:28 VanessaE I've been using an OCZ Vertex2 60GB one for a while. it works well 03:28 telek But flash due to it's mechanics has a limited number of writes before you basically break down the silicon gates inside of it. 03:29 hmmmm haha OCZ 03:29 hmmmm OCZ has poor reliability from what i've seen 03:30 RealBadAngel telek, what modpack? 03:30 VanessaE hmmmm: seems to work fine for me. 03:31 VanessaE of course, I got mine before the reliability issues started :-) 03:31 telek RBA D'oh :D 03:32 telek It's your technic modpack, I mixed it up because I was updating calinou's at the same time and forgot which dir I'd seen it in :D 03:32 RealBadAngel only modpack UI is in is technic 03:32 RealBadAngel hehe 03:32 RealBadAngel i pushed to technic some Nore's frames related code 03:34 telek The crash related to unloaded nodes is gone right? 03:34 VanessaE yeah 03:34 telek I had that happened with like every mod I had installed. 03:34 telek Was driving me nuts since it's strictly a runtime issue, so it doesn't happen until somebody goes somewhere to trigger it/times it right. 03:35 telek Really need a better in-game way to verify version numbers for mods. 03:35 telek Or maybe just standardize on git and have a way for the server to just iterate through mod dirs and do git fetch during reboots. 03:36 telek Does the visible player armor support custom skins itself, or is it strictly default skin? 03:37 VanessaE default only 03:37 VanessaE and even then, it's a custom skin 03:37 VanessaE :( 03:37 VanessaE it has visible weilded item support 03:37 VanessaE but since I use player_textures, well, it ain't a-gonna work :( 03:39 Menche talking about the armor mod? the wielded item support didn't always update for me 03:41 telek Yeah 03:42 telek I may wait on it. 03:45 Vadtec after seeing ShadowNinja's server, i may never go back to MC again 03:46 Vadtec so many cool features, and all i had to do was connect 03:46 Vadtec *gasm* 03:47 VanessaE now try mine :D 03:47 VanessaE over 2400 defined items/nodes, creative mode 03:48 VanessaE 03:48 Vadtec you know how to give a geek a heart attack 03:48 Vadtec lol 03:48 Vadtec i think ShadowNinja pinged lol 03:48 Vadtec HA 03:48 Vadtec see 03:48 VanessaE heh 03:49 Vadtec is there a minimap mod for MT? 03:49 VanessaE kinda-sorta but not really 03:49 Vadtec i used Rei's Minimap in MC 03:49 Vadtec wb ShadowNinja 03:49 VanessaE that's one that we haven't really figured out yet 03:49 Menche i think there is one 03:49 VanessaE Pilzadam wrote one that uses minetestmapper, 03:49 VanessaE but it only updates when you tell it to, outside of the game 03:49 Menche isn't pure lua and needs linux? 03:50 VanessaE Menche: correct. 03:50 VanessaE if I understand correctly. 03:50 telek How's the 'landup' mod? 03:50 VanessaE either way it isn't a realtime map. 03:50 VanessaE telek: never used it, but it looks nice. However, it probably won't be needed anymore soon 03:50 Menche i imagine it would be awkward for a really large 03:50 * telek nods. 03:50 Menche *map 03:51 VanessaE hmmmm: do any of those mapgen tweaks in map_meta.txt affect the terrain the way landup does? 03:55 hmmmm what's landup? 03:55 NekoGloop Once we FINALLY have a 0.4.5 03:55 VanessaE http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=65377#p65377 03:55 VanessaE hmmmm: ^^ 03:57 hmmmm yes it does 03:59 hmmmm eek 03:59 VanessaE which part? ;-) 03:59 hmmmm omg 04:00 hmmmm it must take forever to generate with that 04:00 VanessaE the "Each 80x80x80 surface chunk [...] may crash the game." part? ;-) 04:00 hmmmm that i did not even see 04:00 hmmmm and all of this is taking place while it's holding an envlock 04:00 VanessaE yup 04:00 hmmmm which means the server thread doesn't progress at all 04:00 hmmmm the entire game is basically at a screeching halt 04:01 * Menche pulled the plug out of a computer that didn't have a battery :P 04:01 hmmmm while this does super slow math operations on top of already super slow lua 04:01 VanessaE oops haha 04:01 VanessaE hmmmm: think you can replicate the effects of this mod in C++? 04:01 hmmmm easily, with two lines of configuration 04:01 VanessaE impressive 04:03 hmmmm ah nevermind 04:03 hmmmm it streches things 04:03 VanessaE *nod* 04:03 hmmmm you can get the land look like the mod but you can't get the strech effect that it does 04:04 VanessaE well I expect the stretch is more of a side effect than a primary feature 04:04 hmmmm no it's a feature 04:04 hmmmm see the "copy up" part 04:04 VanessaE *re-reads* 04:05 Menche adjusting the water height in constants.h kind of stretches the land. sorta hackish but can make impressive maps. 04:05 Menche the sea level ends up lower 04:05 hmmmm adjusting water height in constants.h does nothing anymore, since the constant WATER_LEVEL is unused 04:05 Menche oh, haven't checked for a while 04:06 VanessaE hmmmm: well, now you have some ideas for mapgenv7 ;) 04:06 hmmmm not really 04:06 hmmmm this isn't too good 04:07 VanessaE frankly I do like the mountain ranges idea, though the way its implemented looks too...eh. simplistic 04:07 hmmmm that's because it is.. 04:07 hmmmm i'm doing mountain ranges, yes. but i'm doing it the right way 04:08 hmmmm i have some ideas but i don't know if they'll work out until i try 04:09 NakedFury damn looking at that screenshot makes me realize I want big mountains and ranges like that 04:10 NakedFury his shot of the top down worlds looks great but also makes me realize we also need bigger biomes 04:10 Vadtec VanessaE: mind if i check out your server? 04:10 VanessaE Vadtec: no, go right ahead. Bear in mind it'll take a while to load. 04:10 Vadtec whats its addy? 04:11 VanessaE vanessae.mine.bz:30000 04:11 Vadtec i wonder how MT would look in 1080p on my 42" LED.... 04:11 VanessaE probably quite beautiful :-) 04:11 Vadtec with the right texpack of course 04:12 VanessaE HDX all the way baby :-) 04:14 Vadtec is it mese as in geese, or mese as in mess-e or mese as in mess-ay ? 04:14 VanessaE as in geese. 04:14 Vadtec ty 04:14 Menche thats how i say it 04:14 Vadtec thats what i thought 04:15 Menche actually, I've never said it 04:15 Menche just typed 04:15 Vadtec ill have to know how to say it so my kids know how :P 04:15 Menche thats how i *would* pronounce it if i ever said it 04:18 VanessaE heh 04:25 Menche i really need to make a separate installation of minetest for modding and texturing 04:26 Menche just logged on to my server and have the ugly start of a texture pack 04:26 VanessaE I use something like that - singleplayer on my regular user account for testing, then move the results over to the server running as a non-privileged user for wider testing 04:27 Menche trying jordach's ms paint pallette challenge 04:27 Menche hope i don't go blind from the bright colors 04:29 telek :D 04:29 telek The neko259's nature pack throws an error in the bushes init.lua 04:30 Menche lol, someone on my server put protectors in the spawn building 04:30 Vadtec VanessaE: after seeing your server and ShadowNinja's...im 99% certain ill never go back to MC 04:30 VanessaE hehe 04:30 Menche ...and someone wrote "colorful" remarks on the announcement signs 04:31 telek Vadtec: With a few exceptions it's certainly possible to not miss features from MC 04:32 Vadtec oh nice....instead of killing me by letting me walking into a chunk that hasnt loaded like MC...MT simply stopped me from entering it 04:32 Vadtec logic FTW 04:33 Menche someone protected an area on my server *only* to place a sign advertising their youtube channel 04:33 telek Lol! 04:33 Menche took out an 8x9x8 (he used 2 protectors) area just for 1 sign 04:34 Vadtec lol 04:34 Menche and i can't dig it because of the protection. worldedit time 04:34 Vadtec so is there a mod that controls access to a server? as in whitelisting 04:35 Menche i "whitelisted" by setting a default password 04:36 ShadowNinja you can also just not grant interact 04:36 Vadtec so there is no way to allow only certain users on the server and not use a "default" password? 04:36 Menche not that i know of 04:37 Menche i suppose you could make a mod that insta-bans when an unknown player logs in 04:37 NekoGloop Or somehow crashes just the client 04:37 Vadtec lol 04:38 NekoGloop We've accidentally done it enough times, let's try to do it now :P 04:38 Menche have an area on the server that has a super-ultra-high-poly animated mesh 04:38 Menche and teleport bad players to it 04:38 Vadtec i like that idea 04:38 NekoGloop The death zone. 04:39 Vadtec tele-->client spazzes then poofs due to no FPS left over 04:39 ShadowNinja lol 04:42 Vadtec im just thinking i wanna try to steal my old MC friends (well, convince really) to come to MT, but there are a few of the players on the old server who need to diaf 04:42 Vadtec so id rather be able to nuke them from the server completely 04:43 Vadtec oh so many goodies 04:43 Vadtec i cant decide which mods to look into first aside from worldedit and protection 04:44 ShadowNinja is preload_item_visuals on? 04:44 NekoGloop glooptest 04:44 ShadowNinja it slows down login by alot 04:45 Vadtec NekoGloop: forgive me, but, "glooptest" just doesnt leave a good image in my mind about what it does :P 04:45 Vadtec j/k...but you have to admit, the name is kinda scary 04:46 VanessaE there is a way to whitelist by the way. 04:46 VanessaE sort of. 04:46 VanessaE just don't put interact into your default privs 04:46 Muadtralk oh dear god not that way 04:46 NekoGloop Blacklist all the nicks :P 04:46 * Muadtralk knows what VanessaE is thinking 04:47 VanessaE grant interact to whoever, as needed 04:47 Menche they can still log on and troll though 04:47 Muadtralk grant shout to whoever as needed 04:47 Muadtralk :P 04:47 Menche i did it by setting "default_password" to "a;o093da2ofa438;osj3209j9w" 04:47 ShadowNinja don't grant shout either 04:47 Vadtec id rather firewall the IP of and requrie my clients to use a static IP to get in than ban all the nicks 04:47 VanessaE Menche: not if you also withhold shout, fly, fast, and every other one :-) 04:47 VanessaE give no default privs at all, make a mod that grants all of your standards by one command 04:47 Muadtralk if only there was an exist priviliege 04:47 Muadtralk I would revoke it :P 04:48 Menche when someone requested access, i would simply setpassword the player and mail the password to them 04:48 Menche worked fine 04:48 ShadowNinja vanessa, is server back on old emergemanager? 04:48 VanessaE ShadowNinja: sadly, yeah 04:48 VanessaE need me to restart it? 04:48 ShadowNinja noticably slower 04:48 Vadtec chunks arent loading very well on it atm 04:49 VanessaE ok, restarting it now. 04:49 ShadowNinja yes please 04:49 VanessaE done. 04:49 telek The armor mod... 04:49 telek Does the visual weapon part of it work with any weapon, or only 'converted' ones? 04:49 VanessaE dunno 04:50 NekoGloop afaik it should work with w/e you hold 04:50 telek Neato. 04:50 NekoGloop 04:50 telek I'm probably going to hold off on it under it supports skins, but that is going to so totally change it for a lotta players. 04:51 NekoGloop It *should* work with skins. 04:51 NekoGloop Dont hold me to that though 04:51 telek Only other major client-side hardcode feature I can think of would be optional mirror support. 04:51 telek According to the forum it doesn't ATM 04:52 telek Although maybe a paperdoll in the inventory would suffice. 04:52 NekoGloop Well it might not "support" but it should "work with" skins 04:53 Vadtec telek: there isnt anything from stock MC that i miss so far...only from mods for MC 04:53 telek Vadtec: Yeah. 04:53 NekoGloop Well, other than prolly peaceful mobs 04:53 NekoGloop Creepers are just no though. 04:53 telek Hehe 04:53 Vadtec im a huge fan of buildcraft, industrial craft, and redpower for MC 04:53 telek technic+mesecons? 04:54 Vadtec havent played with it yet 04:54 ShadowNinja +pipeworks 04:54 NekoGloop Vadtec: As soon as i get off my lazy ass i'm gonna make something primitively like those. 04:54 VanessaE \o/ pipeworks 04:54 Vadtec but neither of those have oil in them, which adds a load of complexity 04:54 NekoGloop (The purpose of the afformentioned glooptest) 04:54 VanessaE don't forget moretrees :D 04:54 Vadtec nor do they have stuff for making nukes :P 04:54 telek Also, although it might be messy to implement. 04:54 Vadtec though there is TNT mod ive heard 04:54 NekoGloop There's an old oil mod, as well as a nuke mod. 04:54 telek We need wrapping worlds. 04:55 Vadtec we need worlds that are as big or bigger than MC worlds 04:55 Vadtec without the idiotic algorithim screw up at the corners/edges 04:55 Menche ~30000x30000x30000? 04:55 telek And also 'portals' IE for vehicles with position independent interiors, so you could actually drive/fly/float around in-world. 04:55 VanessaE Vadtec: we have our own algorithm screwup at the edges - stuff gets "shaky" 04:55 telek Vadtec: We're already bigger, AFAIK. Only issues now are wraparound, and maybe adding a method to transition from one world to another. 04:56 Vadtec Menche: no, 2^32 x some sane height limit x 2^32 04:56 NekoGloop 4 million nodes in all directions 04:57 NekoGloop If i knew a lick of c++ i'd say challenge accepted. 04:57 Vadtec NekoGloop: even i dont think hieght needs to be 4mill 04:57 Vadtec 32k is just fine 04:57 Vadtec :P 04:57 VanessaE 4000000*4000000*256 04:57 VanessaE 4096000000000000 04:57 VanessaE 62000*62000*62000 04:57 VanessaE 238328000000000 04:57 VanessaE meh, MC has us beat on map size by an order of magnitude :( 04:58 Vadtec 4294967296 04:58 Vadtec to be exact 04:58 Vadtec :P 04:58 VanessaE heh, and I went with the 4 million figure, didn't even consider 4+ billion 04:58 VanessaE 4294967296*4294967296*256 04:58 VanessaE 4722366482869645213696 04:58 VanessaE o.O 04:58 Vadtec yup 04:58 NekoGloop Oh derp, i can't count place values 04:59 Vadtec lol 04:59 Vadtec hence the need for MC to load stuff in "chunks" 04:59 ShadowNinja how hard would it be to make the map bigger? 04:59 NekoGloop ShadowNinja: A lot. 04:59 VanessaE ShadowNinja: impossible, probably 04:59 VanessaE at least in the current incarnation 04:59 NekoGloop Not impossible, just difficult 05:00 Vadtec it would require using at least 32bit integers for the mapping coords 05:00 VanessaE *nod* 05:00 NekoGloop Use 256bit integers and be done with it 05:00 Vadtec egad 05:00 ShadowNinja while were at it make it 1024 bit :-) 05:00 Vadtec screw that 05:01 NekoGloop That would solve mauvebic's gripes about the "small map size" 05:01 Vadtec 2^256 = 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 05:01 NekoGloop I swear, that guy makes roads the size of my houses. 05:01 Menche its even possible to use 30000*30000 nodes? 05:01 VanessaE I suspect if you went with 64bit signed int that would be plenty 05:01 Vadtec all im asking for is 32bit ints... 05:01 Vadtec dont go overboard people! 05:02 VanessaE mench: technically yes, but in practice, no :-) 05:02 NekoGloop VanessaE: See the giant number above. That enough room yet? ;-) 05:02 ShadowNinja lol, beat THAT mc 05:02 VanessaE 256 bit would be overkill :-) 05:02 Menche how big is a "long long int"? 05:02 VanessaE 64 bit would be just right, given today's machine architecture :-) 05:02 ShadowNinja make it a build option 05:02 VanessaE Menche: depends on the OS I expect. 05:02 Vadtec 2^1024 = 17976931348623159077293051907890247336179769789423065727343008115773267580550096313270847732240753602112011387987139335765878976881441662249284743063947412437776789342486548527630221960124609411945308295208500576883815068234246288147391311054082723716335051068458629823994\ 05:02 Vadtec 7245938479716304835356329624224137216 05:02 Vadtec oops 05:02 Vadtec 2^1024 = 179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805500963132708477322407536021120113879871393357658789768814416622492847430639474124377767893424865485276302219601246094119453082952085005768838150682342462881473913110540827237163350510684586298239947245938479716304835356329624224137216 05:02 NekoGloop Holy shit. 05:03 VanessaE that's putting it mildly. :-) 05:03 NekoGloop I want that many nodes. 05:03 mauvebic more power 05:03 Vadtec keep in mind 05:03 Vadtec thats only in ONE direction 05:03 ShadowNinja we need to invent lightspeed mode 05:03 mauvebic 3 speeds of fast would be cool lol 05:03 Menche how big would the map file be if you actually generated all those? 05:03 NekoGloop After all, it's not like most of it is ever going to actually *generate* 05:03 mauvebic like Shift - + to increase fly speed 05:04 NekoGloop Menche: Over 9000 terrabytes 05:04 Menche someone made a patch to have configurable "fast" speed 05:04 VanessaE Menche: I think I calculated the map would be around 250 terabytes with the current 62000^3 size if you generated the whole thing 05:04 Menche you would press j several times to switch between the speeds 05:04 Vadtec ready for this? 05:04 Vadtec (2^1024)^3 = 58096059953699580628595025333045743706869751763628952366614861522872037309971102257373360445331184072513261577549805174439905295945400471216628856721870324010321116397064404988440498509890516272002447658070418123947296805400241048279765843693815222923612087790447698927432257517380769795688113095791255113330932435195537848163063815801618602002474925684481502425153044495771876041364287385809901725515739341462558303664059150008696437320532 05:04 Vadtec 185668325452911079037228316341385995864066903259597251874471690595408050123102096390117507487600170953607342349457574162729948560133086169585299583046776370191815940885283450612858638982717634572948835466388795543116154464463301992543823400162920570907511755338881619189872955915315366987012922676854655174379157908231548446347802601028917180324953960750418994855138111269773074789690748570437107161501213159220245567592412390131529197109564684063794429 05:04 Vadtec 14941614357107914462567329693696 05:04 VanessaE (based on numbers pulled from a really dark place) 05:04 VanessaE Vadtec: christ in a cartoon! 05:05 NekoGloop Why are we cubing it, again? 05:05 Vadtec x, y, z 05:05 NekoGloop Ah. 05:05 VanessaE that does beg the question, why do we care about Y > +32000? 05:05 ShadowNinja hmmm, a little small 05:05 Vadtec someone asked for it in all three dimensions 05:05 VanessaE is there a point to that? 05:05 Vadtec lol...no 05:05 Menche if you can do it in 2 directions, why not make it in all 3? 05:05 NekoGloop VanessaE: So mauv can have his perfect 1:1 scale of everything 05:05 Vadtec like i said, even i think Y should be a sane limit 05:05 mauvebic how high is the atmosphere? 05:05 Menche all of y won't even be generated, so theres no loss 05:05 VanessaE NekoGloop: I know of nothing that is 32k in height 05:06 Menche don't see a point to limiting y 05:06 VanessaE mauvebic: about 120 km or so. 05:06 mauvebic so it needs to be at least that high 05:06 Vadtec mt everest is ~29.6k feet tall 05:06 mauvebic if not to resort to having seperate land/space map lol 05:06 NekoGloop VanessaE: I didn't say he was limiting himself to real structures :P he'll run out eventually 05:06 VanessaE I was *just* looking that up heh 05:06 VanessaE 8.848 meters high 05:06 VanessaE (29029 ft) 05:07 VanessaE 8.848 km high that is 05:07 Menche did someone say something about rendering glitches at the map edge? i'm not seeing any 05:07 Vadtec so, hiehgt limit = mt everts+10km 05:07 Vadtec everst* 05:07 VanessaE Menche: look at anything nodebox-based. 05:07 Vadtec oh ffs 05:07 Vadtec you know what i meant 05:07 VanessaE move around slightly - the edges will get jittery and shaky 05:07 VanessaE Vadtec: yeah pretty much 05:08 NekoGloop Signs are most noticable. 05:08 Menche i didn't notice anything on the sign 05:08 VanessaE yeah, anything that's flat 2d, or look at mesecons wires 05:08 Menche stairs seem fine 05:08 VanessaE those all really exhibit the issue at 30+k 05:09 NekoGloop Try at the very edge of the map 05:09 Menche im at -30777,1,-30,727 05:09 VanessaE try at the + edges then 05:09 Menche gah, drop the last comma there 05:09 Menche ok 05:09 VanessaE it might not affect the negative end 05:10 Menche what's the positive limit? 05:10 NekoGloop A lot. 05:10 NekoGloop Try 30000,1,30000 05:10 Menche 30927 05:10 NekoGloop You should be able to walk from there 05:11 Menche the sign flashes a bit 05:12 ShadowNinja do you know where the glitches start or why? 05:13 Vadtec the why is becaues you are generating a surface that is meant to be spherical on a 2d plane 05:13 Vadtec at least, thats what the algo tries to do 05:13 Menche ? 05:13 Vadtec the where is dependant upon a lot of factors 05:14 Vadtec erm, 3d plane 05:14 Menche meant to be spherical? 05:15 Vadtec the algo itself is trying to generate a sphere like the earth 05:15 Vadtec basically 05:15 VanessaE seriously? 05:15 Vadtec its trying to unwrap the eather 05:15 Vadtec earth* 05:15 Menche you sure? 05:15 Vadtec and lay it out flat 05:15 ShadowNinja Vadtec: would you like me to give you a tour of redcrabs server now? 05:15 Vadtec ShadowNinja: in a few mins, dealing with a server thats misbehaving atm 05:16 ShadowNinja and I doubt that is the reason, it isn't trying to make it sherical 05:16 Vadtec Menche: that may not be the exact aproach the algo takes 05:16 ShadowNinja spherical* 05:16 Vadtec but that is effectively what it is trying to do 05:16 Vadtec and that causes generation errors the further from zero you go 05:16 Menche its just a giant cube of blocks 05:16 ShadowNinja afaik it just tries to render a cube 05:16 NekoGloop The problem isn't generation 05:16 Menche i doubt minetest knows that the irl earth is round 05:16 NekoGloop It's rendering. 05:16 Vadtec but it wants to simulate a sphere of blocks 05:17 Menche i doubt that 05:18 Vadtec mmmm, i could be off the mark, but nearly every map algo ive ever looked at basically tries to peel the sphere and lay it out flat without gaps 05:18 Vadtec and i personally havent seen an algo do it any other way that works for shit 05:18 Vadtec but hey, if im wrong, ill fully admit it 05:18 ShadowNinja minetest just tries to make a cube 05:18 ShadowNinja it thinks the earth is flat 05:18 Menche i haven't really looked at the mapgen code, i thought it was just a massive cube full of smaller cubes 05:18 Vadtec then there shouldnt be any errors at the edges 05:19 VanessaE Vadtec: if you think you can improve on this we certainly would welcome a patch. After you see it happen once, you sorta fixate on it :-) 05:19 ShadowNinja and who wants a lightspeed option? 05:19 NekoGloop Vadtec: The problem is the renderer 05:20 VanessaE ShadowNinja: we already have that. it's called /teleport 05:20 VanessaE ;-) 05:20 Vadtec NekoGloop: i dont see how the renderer can be the problem, its only rendering what its told to 05:20 Vadtec unless rendering is part of the algo overall 05:21 ShadowNinja anyone have any other ideas? 05:21 Vadtec which would be a poor separation of logic and data 05:22 Vadtec ShadowNinja: whats that server? 05:24 ShadowNinja redcrab.suret.net 05:25 NekoGloop Hello neko! :3 05:26 Vadtec yeah ummm...it gave me a protocol version error 05:26 Vadtec using 0.4.4-win32 cleint 05:26 Vadtec client 05:27 Vadtec ffs....typos >< 05:27 NekoGloop Use the latest 05:27 VanessaE redcrab might need latest git 05:27 * Vadtec sighs lol 05:28 ShadowNinja port 30401 05:29 ShadowNinja 30000 is the 0.3 server 05:29 Vadtec that might make a diff lol 05:29 Vadtec made a big diff lol 05:30 VanessaE haha 05:32 Menche jordach's texture contest doesn't allow for very many shades of brown 05:32 Kacey VanessaE? 05:32 VanessaE hi 05:32 Menche can't make a good dirt texture 05:32 Kacey is there a craft for an autocrafter? 05:32 VanessaE dunno, ask Nore :-) 05:32 VanessaE he wrote that part 05:32 Menche the color "#808000" shouldn't exist 05:32 Kacey uugh 05:32 Menche its hideous 05:33 Kacey i need to know... 05:33 Menche search the lua files for the phrase "register_craft" 05:34 Kacey im using github to browse the lua 05:34 Menche try ctrl-f 05:35 Menche on firefox at least that opens search 05:37 Kacey what does "nil" mean exactly? 05:37 Menche "nil" is a special value that represents the absence of any other value 05:37 VanessaE essentially, "not set" 05:37 NekoGloop Absolute nothingness. 05:37 Menche any unused variable has a value of "nil" 05:38 Menche setting a variable to "nil" unsets it 05:38 VanessaE nil is more zero than zero :-) 05:38 NekoGloop Oh wait, ignore still doesn't work on this damn ipad client. 05:38 * Kacey sorta gets it 05:39 NekoGloop nil is what brains the above person has 05:39 NekoGloop ;-) 05:39 NekoGloop Ello bas 05:39 khonkhortisan zero is as much nil as MAX_INT is infinity 05:39 VanessaE hibas 05:40 Menche does singleplayer really have to bind a socket? I can't have multiple singleplayer games at once? 05:41 VanessaE ok time for me to go to bed 05:41 VanessaE night all 05:42 Kacey night v 05:48 Kacey Menche, could you check your pipeworks version to see if there is a crafting 05:49 Menche for what? 05:51 Kacey autocrafter 05:52 Menche can't find any recipe 05:52 Kacey your craft guide is almost no help for me... 05:52 Menche yeah, it doesn't show a ton of recipes 05:52 Menche should i just switch back to default? its also a bit slow to load the first time 05:54 Kacey ya 05:54 * Menche nukes unifiedinventory 05:55 Kacey lol 05:57 Kacey restart coming? 05:57 Menche ok 05:57 Menche should be back up now 06:00 Kacey would it be possible to make creative mode a priv via mod? 06:01 Menche not sure how player inventories are handled 06:04 mauvebic you can show two different inventories depending on privs 06:05 ShadowNinja I have a mod for that 06:05 Menche what about the near insta-mining of creative mode? 06:05 ShadowNinja I havn't pull requested it yet 06:06 ShadowNinja nope, couldn't get that to work as it's global 06:06 Kacey that would require a core rewrite 06:07 mauvebic you can make tools that require privs to work too 06:07 mauvebic basically you can stick the priv function anywhere you want 06:07 mauvebic priv is either true or false, like any other conditional 06:08 mauvebic example, you need paysage priv to access the tab in the inventory AND shoot the gun, so no chance of accidental use or griefer use 06:08 Kacey if priv("creative") = true then creative_mode = true 06:09 Kacey would that work? 06:09 ShadowNinja maybe I can add a priv check to weildhand 06:09 mauvebic nope 06:09 mauvebic youd be setting it globally for everyone 06:09 mauvebic when the formspec is set for the first time (see inventory) thats where you check the player privs and choose either a standard inventory or a creative one 06:09 Kacey what about a tab in unified inv? 06:09 telek Hey is /teleport internal to minetest? 06:09 ShadowNinja yes, delete instantly if you have the privs 06:10 ShadowNinja telek: yes 06:10 mauvebic half my tabs need certain privs to be accessible 06:10 telek Does '/teleport target to_name' actually work? 06:10 ShadowNinja yes 06:10 mauvebic for a button to work there has to be a receiving function, thats where you check ur privs 06:10 Kacey with bring privs and teleport privs yes 06:10 Menche i think teleport is in builtin/chatcommands.lua ? 06:10 telek Ohhh 06:10 telek Okay, it's the bring privs I'm missing then 06:11 telek The error messages need to check for that and return something better than 'those players can't be found' 06:11 mauvebic means theyre not signed in 06:11 mauvebic possible typo otherwise 06:11 Menche you should be able to teleport offline players 06:11 telek It also can mean you don't have bring privileges. 06:11 telek I added bring and it worked fine. 06:11 * Kacey wants to try his hand at a mod 06:11 telek So it's a missing conditional and error message. 06:12 mauvebic prolly just doesnt bother to check why it didnt work lol 06:12 mauvebic might be in debug tho lol 06:13 telek Hrmm 06:14 Vadtec as much as id love to stay up and screw around with this, i gotta get to sleep 06:15 Vadtec lest i be worthless at work tomorrow 06:15 * Kacey doesn't know where to start 06:15 mauvebic well mod experiment worth a shot: creative inv with creative priv in standard game 06:15 * Kacey needs a mod idea 06:16 Vadtec Kacey: TBMs! (tunnel boring machines) 06:16 Kacey aah nc crafting and other hard to obtain blocks crafting 06:16 Kacey Vadtec, im just starting lol 06:16 mauvebic technic and a few other mods have tunneling drills/lasers methinks 06:16 Vadtec but a full blown TBM would be so kick ass 06:16 Vadtec :P 06:16 mauvebic hell even set my gun to air and makes tunnel 06:17 mauvebic how much more full blown does a mining dril have to be? 06:17 Vadtec i want levers, and conveyors, and a big drill head that spins! 06:18 mauvebic sounds liek carts and pneumatic tube 06:18 mauvebic *s 06:18 Vadtec :P 06:18 Vadtec im sleep deprived and saw a chance for a fun mod 06:18 Vadtec go figure 06:18 Menche a tunneling building sized thing like this? http://www.herrenknecht.com/uploads/pics/ShieldedTBM_587_01.jpg 06:19 Vadtec yup! 06:20 Vadtec and after that, a road leveler/paver 06:20 Vadtec :P 06:20 Menche could just somehow track all the nodes of the TBM, and remove/add them to move them forward 06:20 Menche to get fancy, convert them to entities and animate them like sand/gravel, and have the player attached to an operator's chair 06:21 Vadtec see... Menche gets the idea! 06:22 Kacey lag to high heaven with it though 06:22 mauvebic not exactly the direction im goin in lol 06:22 Menche huge hunks of falling sand don't really lag that much, the TBM wouldn't be too big 06:22 Menche and it would be mostly hollow 06:22 mauvebic lag and again automation of processes that could be skipped by playin' creative lol 06:22 Kacey aand then landmine gets one 06:23 Menche lol 06:23 Kacey or worldedit and /giveme 06:23 Menche remember whan Max got worldedit on the server i was hosting for someone? 06:23 mauvebic well, if the holes dig themselves, the resoruces move themselves, and craft themselves, dont kid yourself into thinking youre playing "legit" lol 06:23 Menche never seen so much lava... 06:24 Kacey on your server? 06:24 Menche one i was hosting alongside the old one 06:24 Kacey no where do you see all the lava? 06:24 Vadtec g'night peeps, and thanks for all the great info 06:25 Menche think several 50x50x100 blocks of lava up in the air 06:25 Menche and then flowing of course 06:32 mauvebic jesus Vincent D'Onofrio is young and skinny in Thirteenth Floor lol 06:32 mauvebic and with god awful bleached hair ('99) lol 06:33 * Kacey has no idea what type of mod to make 06:33 Kacey perhaps an extension to pipeworks... 06:34 mauvebic have fun lol 06:35 Kacey VanessaE's finally has (somewhat) an api 06:37 mauvebic version still dates to jan 31st 06:37 Kacey ? 06:39 mauvebic dont see anything new 06:39 mauvebic unless github is more uptodate 06:40 Kacey Nore made a slight api while making pipeworks lol 06:42 mauvebic he didn't "make" pipeworks lol, vanessa started it, RBA added to it, then i got pipes to work, the nore got tubes to work :p 06:42 Kacey well Nore made an api anyway 06:43 mauvebic everyone makes APIs now :P the only question is weather anybody but the author ends up using any of them :p 06:43 Kacey lol 06:43 mauvebic the typical response to an API is for 2 more to appear lol 06:44 mauvebic and then a month or two of debate over which should be default, by which time nothing's changed and people are more entrenched lol 06:44 mauvebic you could train programmers and shrinks here lol 06:51 telek Looks like it's still breakingon 'worldmods/technic/unified_inventory/api.lua:117: attempt to call method 'get_player_name' (a nil value)' 06:51 mauvebic bizarre 06:52 mauvebic its like no player object was passed 06:53 mauvebic did you add anything to unified? 06:54 Kacey lag is off the charts on my own server lol 06:54 mauvebic what version? 06:55 telek mauvebic: No, it's the latest one in technic. 06:55 telek And I just updated both minetest server and the minetest_game directory, just to make sure 06:55 mauvebic line 119, lemme check github 06:56 telek I've been running into this for a month or more now. 06:56 mauvebic when does it happen? 06:56 mauvebic on 'i' or one of the buttons? 06:56 telek Player client crash I believe. 06:56 telek I've heard just movement. 06:57 telek Basically if a client doesn't cleanly disconnect, either crash, drop, or other internet failure, it throws that rather than cleaning up properly. 06:57 mauvebic weird, this should only happen when the formspec is called 06:57 mauvebic and theres a catch for player nil, so why the function isn't returning a name is sortof mystery 06:58 telek Is it something that another mod could be overriding? 06:58 mauvebic got any mods that depend on unified? 06:58 mauvebic might be depending on older version 06:58 telek I'm not sure. 06:58 telek I gotta get going, but I'll update you tomorrow or tues when I have a chance to check. 06:59 mauvebic or update RBA, he'll be able to fix it 07:00 mauvebic i have a seperate fork but you wont find it useful, though not getting that error so might be worth comparing 07:09 Kacey where is chromium located? 07:10 mauvebic Alt F2 'chromium' should do it 07:11 Kacey i need to install a plugin for it... 07:11 markveidemanis I have been away a week, recommend me a mod 09:04 rubenwardy hi all 10:03 rubenwardy are you all asleep? 10:04 MinetestBot GIT: xyzz commited to celeron55/minetest: Set numeric locale for Lua 214a8b4597 2013-02-18T01:58:55-08:00 http://git.io/hCY40Q 10:05 thexyz TForsman: as you're the only one who experienced an issue with locale, can you please compile Minetest with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug and test that all unittests pass? 10:05 celeron55 just --enable-unittests 10:05 celeron55 no need for a different build type 8) 10:05 thexyz oh 10:06 celeron55 (the result is seen as the game either succeeeding or failing to start) 10:06 TForsman with the fix or without the fix? (asume with the fix) 10:07 rubenwardy with the fix 10:08 TForsman will recompile it with --enable-unittests 10:08 thexyz you don't have to recompile 10:08 thexyz just run minetest --info --enable-unittests 10:08 TForsman ahh 10:10 * rubenwardy is eating pork sausage rolls from tesco... or is it horse rolls? 10:11 TForsman seeing right away: 11:06:30: ERROR[main]: Could not set numeric locale to C 10:11 celeron55 rubenwardy: giraffe rolls 10:12 celeron55 TForsman: not related to unit tests 10:12 rubenwardy yumm 10:12 celeron55 but that looks like you have a locale set in your environment that you don't actually have installed 10:12 celeron55 ...umm... maybe 10:12 thexyz TForsman: pastebin >locale -a 10:12 celeron55 that's how it worked when i was testing stuff 10:13 TForsman celeron55: yes, that might be it. 10:13 rubenwardy celeron55, I am going to make an introduction film for minetest 10:13 rubenwardy the script is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CxeUQROl3NkSGsLpZ2_U-paaBGLzK-mbr6aZzekwPJ8/edit?usp=sharing 10:13 rubenwardy anyone can edit the above script. 10:13 celeron55 so fix your gnu/linux installation; something like enable the appropriate locale in /etc/locale.gen and run locale-gen, or alternatively choose a locale that you have 10:13 celeron55 or something like that 10:14 TForsman celeron55: locale -a http://pastebin.com/jRYv8q4q 10:14 celeron55 (assuming you have the similar problem that i did) 10:14 thexyz TForsman: and now >declare | grep "LC\|LANG" 10:14 TForsman locale = http://pastebin.com/VKxZ4gbP 10:15 thexyz odd 10:15 TForsman declare command: http://pastebin.com/SWnWpmps 10:15 celeron55 umm... wtf 10:15 TForsman but, i specified my locale 10:15 celeron55 he doesn't have the C locale 10:15 celeron55 literally 10:15 celeron55 oh, it is there 10:15 TForsman in bashrc i use: export LANGUAGE="en_AU:en_GB:en" 10:16 celeron55 C.UTF-8 doesn't exist though; i wonder if it has something to do with something 10:16 TForsman so, i have usually swedish locale. but now enlgish in everything 10:17 celeron55 umm... can you start a shell and export -n at least that one (to remove it) 10:17 thexyz celeron55: I don't have one too 10:17 thexyz http://pastebin.com/P1VkbZkf 10:17 celeron55 (and then try minetest) 10:18 thexyz I almost forgot to note 10:18 rubenwardy Should "see your creations in 3d" be in the intro film? 10:18 thexyz font included with minetest by default doesn't support at least chinese symbols 10:19 TForsman brb, re-login, changed default language to only use one locale, not any fallbacks if one is missing 10:21 celeron55 in any case, as the unit tests don't fail, we can be relatively sure everything works even with such strange locale settings 10:23 Matsetes Where can I put images for displaying them in the forum? 10:24 thexyz Matsetes: imgur.com 10:27 Matsetes thexyz: Thanks 10:29 * rubenwardy is recording on redcrab.suret.net 30401 for the intro vid 10:35 TForsman celeron55: removed my other locale. only using system one. so no export language in basrc anymore. Still same issue. 10:36 thexyz is it really an "issue"? does something break? 10:36 TForsman i cant start the game 10:37 TForsman http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/733/skrmbildae.png 10:37 thexyz even with the patch to builtin applied? 10:38 TForsman with the fix in: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/builtin.lua then it works 10:38 TForsman without the locale line, it wont work 10:38 thexyz it's fine then 10:39 thexyz I already committed it 10:39 TForsman ahh, then it's all fine. 11:07 rubenwardy ... 14:28 jojoa1997 GOLDFISH 14:31 jojoa1997 who here likes goldfish? 15:02 VanessaE good morning all 15:03 berome hi VanessaE ! 15:04 VanessaE heyu 15:04 VanessaE hey 15:06 NekoGloop Meow :3 15:07 VanessaE meow. 16:01 rotor112 what's the license for this? http://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AHJ_VusaK7qyb_-wF2mHa6kOP24iq6-idjk6vkqo4AARXzGitUzHCi4Fne7Ogb9SK03sMmpd6GFT-QkNCGetjPi2IScgq2qAumFYsm4Fc1YVydoCRPCCbgYZMnrNCC7t-mGspClC4h3BxLwB4ozZgnDyFNGooY04gvstyOT6eEgNulSX4KnpZ_w 16:01 VanessaE that's a reCaptcha image. 16:01 NekoGloop WTFDL: what the fuck dat link 16:02 VanessaE I think the images thereof are public domain 16:02 VanessaE or WTFPL/CC0 whatever is appropriate for your country 16:02 rotor112 ok, thanks 16:05 PilzAdam Hello everyone! 16:05 rotor112 hi 16:07 rotor112 I think the irc mod doesn't work now at minetest.org 16:09 VanessaE morning adam 16:16 rotor112 there's an invisible letter 16:16 rotor112 at king artur's server 16:16 PilzAdam new GetText win32 build with TrueTypeFont support: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4547 16:18 rotor112 this letter and a "r"(at irc) create a new line 16:19 rotor112 so they wrote these signs 16:21 rotor112 you can add a new line at default signs 16:21 rotor112 with minetest 16:21 VanessaE since when? 16:21 VanessaE only PilzAdam/thexyz signs could do that (with "|") 16:22 VanessaE or is someone exploiting a bug? 16:22 rotor112 it's a invisible letter 16:22 PilzAdam VanessaE, what rotor112 is probably talking about is that the infotext in the GUI no has enabled line wrapping 16:22 rotor112 I can't show it here 16:22 VanessaE ah 16:22 VanessaE I forgot about that tweak 16:23 VanessaE PilzAdam: I guess your signs mod (and my forks thereof) will need to be updated to use the new formspec :-) 16:23 rotor112 if you use the irc mod you could read this letter here and a r after it 16:24 rotor112 I found it there http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3292 16:24 rotor112 on this server 16:25 rotor112 then I pressed right click on the rules sign 16:25 PilzAdam what!?!?! 16:25 PilzAdam VanessaE is female!?!?! http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=71093#p71093 16:25 PilzAdam ;-) 16:25 VanessaE yep, when last I checked 16:25 rotor112 was* 16:28 VanessaE zzz 16:29 rotor112 go to this server and read the rule signs 16:29 VanessaE just take a screenshot 16:29 rotor112 ok 16:32 markveidemanis Hi! 16:32 rotor112 hi 16:32 PilzAdam rotor112, the problem is because someone added newlines at the end of each rule sign 16:32 rotor112 I know 16:34 rotor112 http://ubuntuone.com/6ZwH3AsgsHnMceMJK2tISy (you're on the screenshot, too) 16:35 rotor112 if you use the irc mod you can see this letter here 16:37 rotor112 you can write everything ito the chat 16:38 rotor112 n* 16:39 rotor112 http://ubuntuone.com/110WRsb9oRCMZwFf2QSIVO 16:39 markveidemanis Who will post on my server toppic 16:39 rotor112 only for example 16:39 markveidemanis also, thexyz screwed up the links 16:39 thexyz I did. 16:39 markveidemanis http://servers.minetest.ru/ <== my link is some spanish bullshit 16:40 jrabbit So anyone know about compiling irrlicht on mac? 16:40 markveidemanis You mised a letter!! 16:40 jrabbit And why ots not in a packagemanager? 16:41 PilzAdam jrabbit, we currently lack a mac maintainer 16:41 jrabbit sure, but why is the engine so hard to build 16:41 jrabbit minetest should be simple to maintain if the engine can be built... 16:41 jrabbit I'd be able to script it actually 16:41 PilzAdam related topic: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=55239 16:41 thexyz markveidemanis: I unscrewed it. 16:41 jrabbit I have a mac with a broken screen that could be a build box maybe 16:42 jrabbit automate it slash make it a continious build :D 16:42 PilzAdam jrabbit, would be nice if you could offer some builds 16:42 markveidemanis not unscrewed... 16:42 thexyz markveidemanis: be patient 16:42 rotor112 I would like to have water reflections http://blog.movingblocks.net/wp-content/uploads/Terasology-619568_960x332.jpg 16:42 markveidemanis im not showing inpatience in any way 16:42 jrabbit PilzAdam: well if I can figure it out I may make fink packages or homebrew packages for Irrlicht, minetest and super tux 16:43 thexyz markveidemanis: ok, keep it so 16:43 markveidemanis and not even asking to unscrew, just saying its screwed 16:45 jrabbit I'll look at the debian src pkg 16:49 markveidemanis pp 16:52 jrabbit PilzAdam: do we know how the previous folks were getting irr*? 16:53 PilzAdam have you looked at the forum thread? 16:53 VanessaE markveidemanis: why are you bugging PilzAdam about that? I thought someone else maintained servers.minetest.ru 16:54 markveidemanis im bugging thexyz, i thought it was his 16:54 jrabbit PilzAdam: its entirely unspecific. 16:54 VanessaE oh wait, misread. 16:54 jrabbit They don't seem to have any issues with dependencies except how to bundle them 16:54 * VanessaE hates her eyes sometimes. 16:54 jrabbit which can be hard 16:55 PilzAdam jrabbit, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2803 16:55 PilzAdam maybe this helps? 16:55 jrabbit oh actually I may have jsut not compield the right target 16:56 jrabbit xcodebuild on the commandline doesn't tell you which target is default 16:56 * VanessaE grumbles at monoprice.com for having a broken password reset function 17:03 markveidemanis I need someone to edit the ServerExtended mod 17:03 markveidemanis To only add "god" and "clearinv" commands 17:09 mauvebic lol vanessae, i didnt know you were a member of the easth german swimming team ! :p 17:09 mauvebic *east 17:09 VanessaE eh? 17:10 mauvebic "i was female" :p 17:10 VanessaE bah 17:10 VanessaE "It means you're all crazy to ask silly questions. :-)" 17:10 mauvebic ill never understand why A/S/L matters at all online lol 17:11 khonkhortisan I read that as american sign language. Is that age/sex/language? 17:11 mauvebic all it usually does is invite insults based on age, gender or nationality lol 17:11 jrabbit Can I give up and install minetest on my netbook? Yes yes I can 17:11 mauvebic should work on the netbok? 17:12 mauvebic make sure your graphics are up to date 17:12 jrabbit (netbook runs debian :P) 17:12 jrabbit it'll work fine 17:12 mauvebic im so sorry 17:12 mauvebic wait thats intentional? :p 17:12 jrabbit haha very funny. 17:13 mauvebic debian's a bit sluggish for netbook, you got more than 1 gig of ram at least? 17:13 VanessaE jrabbit: better you should run a server instance on your desktop machine, and let the laptop run only the client half 17:13 jrabbit probably? 17:13 VanessaE that way you can spread the load. 17:13 mauvebic you *can* run a server off a netbook, using crunch/arch/bang with open/flux/blackbox 17:13 mauvebic basically dedicate all your resources to it lol 17:13 Calinou jrabbit: wireless receivers need firmware! 17:14 Calinou (in mesecons) 17:14 jrabbit Huh? 17:14 Calinou /debian troll 17:14 mauvebic which if you have a spare laptop lying around, is perfect 17:14 VanessaE haha 17:14 mauvebic you can't have wireless mesecons in debian, its proprietary! lol :p 17:14 Calinou IMO, if you have limited money, a netbook isn't a solution, better build a cheap desktop that will pwn any low end laptop 17:14 jrabbit fuck my laptops I have servers. 17:14 mauvebic and on debian they have the 'freecons' version lol 17:14 jrabbit :P 17:14 JesseH Calinou, I agree. 17:15 JesseH Netbooks are for those forced to use them. 17:15 mauvebic meh, anyone have any real trouble running a server off the terminal of a laptop? 17:15 jrabbit is this a bad firefox / iceweasel joke? 17:15 Calinou but just save your money and build a good PC :-D 17:15 mauvebic *assuming* you already have said netbook/laptop 17:15 jrabbit finally 17:16 jrabbit its backlight is flakey 17:16 JesseH I have a minetest question: Is there away to get the data from a world, just by logging into a server? 17:16 JesseH away == a way 17:16 mauvebic ill tell you whuat though i was quite glad to have a netbook when i was pulling 14hrs/day for 6 days a week lol 17:16 Calinou you could write a C++ mod to download worlds somehow :P 17:17 JesseH Calinou, I know, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if it already exists. 17:17 mauvebic c++? prolly wont work long with the new security package lol 17:18 Calinou noone made it 17:19 mauvebic though, with os.execute removed lua-side, theres no use releasing my mesh converting ('unsecure') :p 17:19 mauvebic *converter 17:22 mauvebic the best alt would be using pyGTK to write a frontend 17:22 jrabbit ew gtk :( 17:24 mauvebic not much choice there lol 17:25 jrabbit theres lots of python gui options 17:25 Calinou april fool: I'm going to port GTK3 to windows 17:25 jrabbit 10-20 fps out of the box 17:25 JesseH What's wrong with Lua? :P 17:25 jrabbit Lua's a nice language 17:25 mauvebic nothing wrong with lua :P but meshconverter isnt in lua and os.execute is or is going to be disabled :p 17:26 Calinou jrabbit: 10-20FPS for what? 17:26 jrabbit minetest on thenetbook 17:26 jrabbit need a real mouse/kb though 17:26 Calinou heh, I get similar framerates too on my netbook 17:26 Calinou disable clouds and fog 17:26 jrabbit the touchpad is atrocious on the netbook 17:26 Calinou enable_fog = 0 17:26 jrabbit k 17:26 Calinou enable_clouds = 0 17:26 Calinou ^ put these lines in minetest.conf 17:26 JesseH ahh ok I see mauvebic 17:26 jrabbit wsheres that in ~? 17:27 Calinou ~/.minetest/minetest.conf on a non-portable install 17:27 Calinou in a portable install, in your minetest directory 17:27 jrabbit k 17:28 mauvebic i need more landmark meshes tho 17:32 MiJyn celeron55, did you read my PM? 17:34 berome Calinou: and what about farmersh ? Should we set something other than by default about that to improve FPS ? 17:35 VanessaE farmesh is...broken 17:35 berome do not uncomment in minetest.conf so :-) 17:35 mauvebic anyone else have nodeboxes disapear when there are alot of them? 17:35 markveidemanis http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3954 17:35 markveidemanis POST!! 17:35 VanessaE mauvebic: out of indices. 17:35 VanessaE "rendering artifacts may occur" 17:36 VanessaE I think RBA's fixing that 17:36 jrabbit can i assign a key to dig? 17:36 VanessaE (apparently he needs to in order for his rotation code to work right, not exactly sure) 17:36 mauvebic someone also mentionned 2D flickering at map edges - i get that everywhere even w/ thin nodeboxes 17:40 markveidemanis Come on my server to play with 17:40 markveidemanis Buildings!!! 17:41 markveidemanis Come on my server jojoa1997 :D 17:41 jojoa1997 sorry i am really busy i just cam on to ask RBA something 17:41 markveidemanis New VPS New VPS... 17:42 markveidemanis ok 17:42 jojoa1997 RealBadAngel: is it possibel that you could make a crafting guide for inventory_plus but it is like the one in unified inventory 17:43 VanessaE meh, inventory_plus is outdated :-) 17:44 jojoa1997 no 17:44 mauvebic who maintains it? 17:44 VanessaE cornernote I think? 17:44 VanessaE maintained 17:45 jojoa1997 nope 17:45 mauvebic oh well, go w/ unified, its the updated version 17:45 jojoa1997 inventory plus is the basis for other mods 17:45 Matsetes Hi! 17:45 jojoa1997 i cant have armor and other stuff with unified 17:45 markveidemanis Hi 17:45 VanessaE jojoa1997: blame the person who made the armor mod :-) 17:45 jojoa1997 i say it is stinting modding possibilites 17:45 mauvebic or write the addon yourself? :p 17:45 Matsetes Is there a way to use a button to keep a light on with mesecon? 17:45 jojoa1997 inventory plus came first 17:46 Calinou berome: farmesh is off by default and borked :P 17:46 mauvebic and the maintainers' gone, so dont expect new updates for that lol 17:46 jojoa1997 i have not seen a single mod that uses unified 17:46 VanessaE Matsetes: use a microcontroller or a pair of AND gates to make a latch 17:47 VanessaE Matsetes: google for "R-S Latch" 17:47 jojoa1997 there is no need for updates mauvebic 17:47 jojoa1997 there is nothing to add 17:48 mauvebic allrighty then 17:48 berome Calinou: VanessaE: yes thanks :-) 17:50 jojoa1997 Calinou: will there be any updates to moreores 17:51 mauvebic huh, back up : https://github.com/cornernote 17:52 jojoa1997 i am not trying if you guys only say it isnt possible 17:54 Matsetes VanessaE: I remember a video... Is there a video to show that? 17:54 jojoa1997 show what 17:54 VanessaE dunno 17:55 VanessaE http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/sequential/images/rsc-0000.gif 17:55 VanessaE here, that's a basic R-S latch 17:55 VanessaE http://www.c-jump.com/CIS77/images/figure_3_18_RS_latch.png 17:55 VanessaE this one's even simpler 17:55 VanessaE the first takes a clocking signal, this one doesn't.\ 17:56 VanessaE mesecons gates work just like the real thing, so use two NAND gates wired as in that second image and you should have what you want. 17:57 * jojoa1997 sigh 17:57 jojoa1997 why did Cornernote have to get himslef/herself banned 17:57 mauvebic vegan 17:58 mauvebic with all that entails lol 17:58 mauvebic i think he snapped lol 17:59 jojoa1997 why doesnt someone continue his mods? 17:59 mauvebic they were 17:59 mauvebic and then you said you didn't need em 18:00 mauvebic youd rather stick with the unmaintained version ;p 18:00 jojoa1997 they weren't updated 18:00 mauvebic dunno what exactly it is you want 18:00 jojoa1997 wait did he update them on github 18:01 jojoa1997 i just want a crafting guide for inventory plus 18:01 mauvebic we told yas, inventory plus not maintained 18:01 mauvebic unified inventory is 18:01 mauvebic so you can post requests on inventory plus thread, don't hold your breath for updates 18:02 markveidemanis jojoa, join #mtmt 18:02 jojoa1997 unified cant work with the other 10-20 mods out there 18:03 VanessaE 10-20? more likely 2-3 18:03 jojoa1997 more than that 18:03 VanessaE I have 55 mods on my server, including unified inventory via technic 18:03 VanessaE (jeez!_ 18:05 mauvebic not much point in carrying on this convo - he wont switch, and no one'\s updating invplus lol 18:05 Calinou jojoa1997: there are updates from time to time 18:05 jojoa1997 ok 18:05 VanessaE I've only ever seen a couple of mods that demanded inventory_plus, and each time I come across one, I see where the author has decided not to support/require it after a certain point. 18:05 VanessaE all of cornernote's mods are dead afaic. 18:05 jojoa1997 well i will switch over to unified if it can support those mods 18:06 VanessaE RealBadAngel: *poke* 18:06 mauvebic this about armor? 18:07 jojoa1997 no 18:08 jojoa1997 armor,armorplus,bookmarks 0gb,inven warp 0gb, specialties, worldedit gui 18:08 jojoa1997 and more is what i have that needs inven+ 18:08 VanessaE so bug the authors of those mods to drop their support of inventory plus 18:09 mauvebic i got most of those in mine though not the same base mods 18:09 VanessaE it is outdated, unsupported, unmaintained. 18:09 jojoa1997 cn you tell me how to make them support unified inventory 18:10 mauvebic ask them not us :p 18:10 mauvebic we can only relay messages 18:10 mauvebic authors like it better come from users 18:10 mauvebic *coming 18:10 VanessaE ask RealBadAngel to add the necessary support to Unified Inventory so it can do whatever it is Inventory Plus does, then ask the authors of those other mods to allow for UI support in lieu of IP. 18:10 mauvebic wtf is up with my tenses today lol 18:10 jojoa1997 "they" are not updating them anymore 18:10 jojoa1997 anyways 18:10 khonkhortisan they don't like being called tense 18:10 jojoa1997 unified inven cant support other mods 18:11 mauvebic vanessae last i heard rba was updating unified so i can merge my fork back, so it should be able to support alot of things 18:11 VanessaE nice 18:11 VanessaE jojoa1997: "can't", or just "doesn't, yet"? 18:12 mauvebic the main points is being able to setup a menu easily, add pages/tabs easily, adjust the size of the inventory itself, etc. 18:12 mauvebic ideally my fork and the original should be able to run off the same cade 18:12 mauvebic *code 18:12 mauvebic wtf lol 18:12 VanessaE nice 18:13 VanessaE now all you gotta do is add something to UI that'll stand in for IP and satisfy the dependencies thereof :-) 18:13 mauvebic yeah, i wanna see the default creative replaced, so unified needs to be universal lol 18:13 jojoa1997 i have one request then to RBA 18:13 mauvebic IP? 18:13 VanessaE default creative is, frankly, horrible compared to UI 18:13 VanessaE IP, Inventory Plus. UI, Unified Inventory 18:13 mauvebic im guessing thats not intellectual property 18:13 mauvebic ah ok lol 18:14 VanessaE just trying to reduce my typing. 18:14 jojoa1997 RealBadAngel please make the creative inventory work like the default one 18:14 VanessaE jojoa1997: nOOOOOOOOOooooOOOoooOOoooOOooOOooOooOoooOOOO 18:14 mauvebic default creative served us well when we didn't have this many nodes 18:14 jojoa1997 why not? 18:14 mauvebic by now, search is mandatory 18:14 khonkhortisan pages for one 18:14 VanessaE because default creative inventory is shit 18:14 VanessaE (sorry PilzAdam) 18:14 jojoa1997 nononono 18:14 khonkhortisan and tabs 18:14 VanessaE with lots of mods and no search, it's hopeless to try to use it 18:14 jojoa1997 i mean the only need one node and infinite palces 18:14 jojoa1997 that thing 18:15 mauvebic heck, default creative = 14 pages to flip through lol 18:15 mauvebic prolly more now for me lol 18:15 khonkhortisan instead of 99 nodes? 18:15 jojoa1997 keep the search 18:15 jojoa1997 yeah 18:15 khonkhortisan I have unified and default fighting with each other 18:15 mauvebic youre sposed to yank 1 of em out 18:15 VanessaE khonkhortisan: you have to delete the default one. 18:15 khonkhortisan okay 18:16 mauvebic or write a function to determine which one to serve to who 18:17 mauvebic newer unified should support permission based stuff too 18:18 markveidemanis Hi! 18:19 jojoa1997 back 18:20 xming hmm, a bit lost here, should I use unified inventory or craft guide? (that is if I want a guide for crafting) 18:20 VanessaE Unified Inventory 18:21 khonkhortisan craft guide should be part of the inventory instead of a separate node menu 18:21 jojoa1997 what is farming plus dependent on 18:21 VanessaE famring 18:21 mauvebic thats not how it was written tho :p 18:21 VanessaE farming* 18:21 jojoa1997 i have that? 18:22 VanessaE dunno 18:22 jojoa1997 i have everything 18:22 jojoa1997 i mean why doesnt it work 18:22 jojoa1997 i have all the dependencies 18:22 VanessaE ever since that damn mod config menu got added, the engine/server/whatever doesn't bother to fucking TELL you which mods are missing anymore 18:22 VanessaE fucking STUPID change 18:22 mauvebic lol 18:23 mauvebic who's? 18:23 jojoa1997 what happened to set time in unified inven 18:23 khonkhortisan time setting isn't really for a public server 18:23 mauvebic that could use a priv lock 18:23 jojoa1997 wit does 18:24 mauvebic in my fork - you cant access any of the tabs without the appropriate priv - the only thing i havent done yet is actually hide the buttons when they dont have privs 18:24 sokomine how about bags and the diffrent versions of inventory? i have them sometimes mixed and use the trader from mobf to reset it 18:26 mauvebic dont use bags :/ i use clear 18:26 mauvebic cant you just expand the player inventory? 18:27 mauvebic if not expand then you can fake it with an additional detached 18:27 sokomine the bags are a good mod 18:27 sokomine and yes, they use detached inventorys to my knowledge 18:27 mauvebic but is the player inv static to 32 slots? 18:28 mauvebic 'bags' could be a tab in unified with like another 32 slot inventory 18:29 mauvebic tho if you got more crap than you know what to do with, you might consider some sort of trading mod lol 18:31 jojoa1997 VanessaE could u make papyrus grow naturally in plantlib 18:31 VanessaE jojoa1997: I could, but there are other mods that do that 18:32 khonkhortisan I git blame Jeija for drop = "mesecons_extrawires:insulated_off", 18:32 jojoa1997 what are they? 18:34 VanessaE I don't remember off the top of my head 18:34 jojoa1997 does anyone know the recipe for trapglass 18:35 jojoa1997 like on your server anessae 18:36 VanessaE note sure off the top of my head 18:37 NekoGloop not* 18:37 VanessaE note* 18:37 VanessaE not* 18:42 markveidemanis hi 18:42 markveidemanis post on my topic! 18:42 markveidemanis http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3954 18:43 VanessaE meh. 18:45 markveidemanis No join, just post 18:45 sokomine mauvebic: sapiers mobf has a trader. i've given it a bit more to trade :-) the bags problem is something diffrent 18:45 VanessaE people will post when they want to. 18:46 markveidemanis Who has been on the gameboom server? 18:46 khonkhortisan me, but not lately 18:46 markveidemanis who is common on the gameboom server 18:46 markveidemanis like.. 18:47 markveidemanis darkrose,Emmet124,Zourent,Bad_Command,Alphamale,DerakuTenshi 18:47 markveidemanis Ghostshell.. 18:47 markveidemanis The list goes on 18:47 markveidemanis Those are good people, they know what they are doing 18:47 VanessaE I thought gameboom was dead? 18:47 markveidemanis And where are they now? 18:47 markveidemanis it is 18:47 khonkhortisan it's still up I think 18:47 khonkhortisan oh 18:47 markveidemanis But it's people are not... 18:48 markveidemanis it's up, but dead 18:48 markveidemanis Mapgen bug, no bother to get new map... 18:48 khonkhortisan bones were making me actually lose stuff 18:49 markveidemanis Thats the point :D 18:49 markveidemanis What is LevelDB 18:49 khonkhortisan no, I ran to my bones and they disappeared right in front of me 18:49 markveidemanis as opposed to sqlite3 18:49 khonkhortisan or never appeared 18:49 markveidemanis oh, 18:49 markveidemanis Thats the mapgen 18:52 markveidemanis So join now plz 18:52 markveidemanis if you are like the people i listed, or know them, join now 18:52 markveidemanis or ARE them 19:08 VanessaE leveldb versus sqlite is the database engine used to store your map. 19:08 VanessaE it is not related to the map generator. 19:08 VanessaE sqlite bugs out with files > 4GB, leveldb does not. 19:08 VanessaE some have said leveldb is also a tad fastet to access than sqlite. 19:12 MiJyn is it possible to force minetest to load a certain area of a map from lua? 19:12 VanessaE no 19:12 MiJyn dang 19:13 MiJyn heh, well, new issue to file :P 19:13 VanessaE already been discussed 19:13 VanessaE nothing has been decided as far as I know. 19:14 MiJyn oh 19:15 MiJyn would be so awesome for my mod ^^ 19:17 * JesseH needs a good server to play on. 19:17 VanessaE try mine. 19:17 JesseH PM me ip, or whatever :P 19:17 VanessaE vanessae.mine.bz:30000. creative mode, tons of mods, slow as hell :-) 19:17 VanessaE hey traxie. 19:18 JesseH slow as hell lol 19:18 JesseH I've seen that before playing minetest 19:19 * MiJyn wonders where he could have _possibly_ seen that... *cough*minecr*ft*cough* 19:19 JesseH Been reading over the API a little bit, and I am probably going to host my own server sooner or later with my mods. 19:19 MiJyn cool! 19:20 JesseH I can't compare minetest of minecraft, because minetest hasn't been developed as much as minecraft. 19:20 MiJyn ah ok 19:20 MiJyn yeah 19:20 Traxie21 how does one use minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area? 19:21 Traxie21 ohi Vanessa! 19:21 JesseH one moment Traxie21 19:21 Traxie21 I know how, but it dosnt seem to work 19:21 Traxie21 print(dump(minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area({x=pos.x+1, y=pos.y, z=pos.z+1}, {x=pos.x-1, y=0, z=pos.z-1}, {"default:dirt"}))) 19:21 MiJyn oh 19:21 VanessaE traxie, you give it a minimum and maximum position as corners of the rectilinear region to search, and a list of node names to search for. it returns a list of positions for that node if any 19:22 Traxie21 Yeah 19:22 MiJyn I just made my own function... works fine for me :P 19:22 Traxie21 With the code above, it ALWAYS returns {} 19:22 JesseH I couldn't find that in the documentation D: 19:22 Traxie21 never has anything in it 19:22 VanessaE maybe because your box corners are not sorted. 19:22 VanessaE notice you put z-1 after z+1 19:22 MiJyn why don't you just make your own? Mine was only ~20 lines of code 19:22 MiJyn and works fine 19:22 Traxie21 What do you mean Vanessa? 19:22 VanessaE try putting the lower-valued coordinates first 19:23 Traxie21 k 19:23 VanessaE try: {x=pos.x-1, y=pos.y, z=pos.z-1}, {x=pos.x+1, y=0, z=pos.z+1}, {"default:dirt"} 19:23 VanessaE maybe also swap y=pos.y with y=0 -- I dunno what your y coords refer to in this case :-) 19:24 Traxie21 y = pos.y is the y position of a block 19:24 Traxie21 if I set it to zero, it will check at y 0 19:24 VanessaE if pos.y is always greater than 0, then you should put it with the x+1, z+1 19:24 VanessaE and put y=0 with the x-1, z-1 part. 19:25 Traxie21 It may not always be greater than zero 19:25 VanessaE hrm 19:25 VanessaE that could be an issue then 19:25 Traxie21 Wait 19:25 Traxie21 Now its printing positions 19:25 Traxie21 Its working :D 19:25 VanessaE ah! 19:25 VanessaE good 19:25 VanessaE now consider the range of Y values 19:26 VanessaE you might need to either do two separate checks, or one check that straddles y=0. 19:26 Traxie21 ok 19:26 Traxie21 Btw, now how to I only make code run when it finds values in that table? 19:26 Traxie21 checking if the table is empty or {} dosnt seem to work... 19:27 VanessaE nodes = minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area(.....) 19:27 VanessaE if nodes then 19:27 VanessaE blah blah 19:27 VanessaE end 19:27 Traxie21 wow 19:27 Traxie21 fast typer 19:27 VanessaE fast copy&paster ;-) 19:28 VanessaE nodes will either be a table or nil, or at least that's how it's *supposed* to work 19:28 Traxie21 yeah 19:28 Traxie21 Its returning {} 19:28 VanessaE so 'if nodes then....' will execute if nodes != nil 19:28 VanessaE odd 19:28 VanessaE well you could always.... 19:28 VanessaE if nodes ~= {} and nodes ~= nil then 19:28 VanessaE blah blah 19:28 VanessaE end 19:29 Traxie21 yeah 19:29 RealBadAngel for _,object in ipairs(minetest.env:get_objects_inside_radius(pos, 2)) do 19:29 Traxie21 trying that 19:29 RealBadAngel example for similar function 19:29 Traxie21 Yeah 19:29 Traxie21 I cant use that 19:29 RealBadAngel use ipairs 19:29 Traxie21 I need to check on a horizontal axis only 19:29 VanessaE what are you doing anyway? 19:30 Traxie21 trying to finish my mud mod 19:30 Traxie21 XD 19:30 Traxie21 sand by the ocean needs to become sandmud 19:31 VanessaE use plants_lib for that :-) 19:31 jin_xi VanessaE: its supposed to return a list of positions 19:31 VanessaE it can do the checks you want to do :-_) 19:31 VanessaE jin_xi: or nil, if the node wasn't found. 19:31 Traxie21 I know, but its an extra lib, for something supposedly so simple 19:31 jin_xi VanessaE: nope.jpg 19:32 jin_xi https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1071 19:32 VanessaE strange, I coulda sworn it had mentioned returning nil 19:32 jin_xi find node near does that... 19:32 VanessaE well no matter, she's checking for an empty table now too 19:33 Traxie21 wow 19:33 Traxie21 if nodes == nil or nodes == "" or nodes == {} or nodes == "{}"then return false else minetest.env:add_node(pos, {name="mud:sandmud_source"}) return end 19:33 Traxie21 that still gets through O_O 19:33 VanessaE jeez 19:34 Traxie21 this is the hardest mod I've ever done 19:34 Traxie21 I should stick with textures XD 19:35 Traxie21 Btw, RBA, your technic mod is excellent 19:35 Traxie21 along with pipeworks 19:35 Traxie21 WOOT 19:35 Traxie21 Its done! 19:35 Traxie21 It worked! 19:35 VanessaE \o/ 19:35 Traxie21 Testing time 19:36 RealBadAngel thx 19:36 sokomine what will your mod do, traxie? 19:37 Traxie21 make a caustic/erosive mud that can mine when controlled 19:37 Traxie21 But can also be a natural disaster 19:37 sokomine sounds dangerous 19:37 Traxie21 It is 19:37 Traxie21 Fortunately, it can normally only be created with player help 19:37 Traxie21 sandmud is not dangerous 19:37 * sokomine turns fly on and watches from above :-) 19:37 sokomine ah, ok 19:38 Traxie21 Lolyea 19:38 Traxie21 Before this was working, all sand turned into sandmud 19:38 Traxie21 my world was totally wrecked 19:38 MiJyn haha yeah, I imagine... 19:40 sokomine i've got a spawning problem as well. in short: whenever such a nice huge moretrees-tree spawns, i want a function to be called that places a house some distance (5-20 blocks away) from that tree. it's supposed to be a home for lumberjacks 19:40 Traxie21 what happens? 19:40 sokomine of course not for every tree. maybe every 5th or 10th 19:42 sokomine the wood of the tree would be of limited help in this case since they strech up so high. also i do not care about a particular surface. just at least 1 tree has to be nearby (the more trees the more chance of a lumberjack home beeing spawned) 19:43 VadtecWk hey all, im running MT off a thumb drive for a local game, and i am getting the following: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/45692 19:43 VadtecWk is there any reason everything is red like that? 19:44 VanessaE VadtecWk: turn off shaders. 19:44 MiJyn VanessaE, or maybe he's using a blood texture pack? O_o jk 19:44 VadtecWk VanessaE, woot, that worked 19:45 VanessaE regarding spawning a building... 19:45 VanessaE I'm not entirely sure how to do that in fact. 19:45 VadtecWk my graphics card at home is much better, cause i turned on all the graphics stuff and it worked just fine last night :P 19:49 sokomine i do have the code that actually puts the house at a given location ready. i just need such locations... 19:49 sokomine if there would be a way to find out that a huge moretrees-tree is about to spawn (or has spawned) at xyz that would be helpful 19:57 VadtecWk i really love the fact that MT uses UDP 19:58 VadtecWk the network admins here filter TCP heavily, and they have tagged MC packets 19:58 VadtecWk and basically killed MC 19:58 VadtecWk but now i can play MT :P 19:58 VadtecWk sneaky sneaky 20:08 FreeFull =P 20:09 jin_xi sokomine: maybe something like that could work? https://gist.github.com/obneq/4980214 (untested) 20:14 sokomine ah, you suggest overlaying the tree-grow-function, jin_xi? hm. maybe. if it can be done in this case? 20:14 sokomine that would at least be along the lines i was thinking 20:14 VanessaE that might work too 20:15 VanessaE I hadn't even thought of doing that 20:15 VanessaE but you'll have to be very careful about detecting what is being spawned 20:15 VanessaE because this will also affect sapling growth 20:15 sokomine would be easiest for me in this case i think. i could attach a hut to every 5th or 10th tree. what is important is the location of the tree and the type of it 20:16 sokomine in how far? 20:16 PilzAdam bye 20:19 sokomine how do trees grow btw? do they spawn saplings first? 20:20 VanessaE nope, they just grow immediately. 20:20 sokomine ok 20:21 VanessaE the spawning algorithm selects a spot and either calls spawn_tree() directly or calls a function in moretrees to handle it (which also just calls spawn_tree() after doing a couple of tests) 20:22 VanessaE so for example, a palm is spawned directly at the target, while a fir is spawned via a function call, which does a quick random function to decide which model and size to spawn 20:22 VanessaE saplings are individually deleted and replaced by whole trees when their time comes 20:22 sokomine hm, yes, the trees are of diffrent sizes and might require diffrent distance 20:22 sokomine hi backupcoder 20:22 VanessaE via plants_lib's growing abm 20:23 sokomine ok. but on mapgen it's immediate growing 20:24 VanessaE yes 20:24 sokomine how about depth? do the trees grow down some way? else i could place the detector-node beneath the tree-to-be and spawn the house a few seconds later somewhere in the area (i'd like to wait a bit due to incoming mud from neighbouring generated areas) 20:24 VanessaE as soon as a spawn target is chosen, the tree is immediately spawned. 20:25 VanessaE no, they don't. 20:25 VanessaE that's not a bad idea at all in fact 20:25 VanessaE place your special node two spaces below the tree 20:25 sokomine or...well...with an after-function, i could just call it with the position without placing anything 20:25 VanessaE brb, gotta do something 20:26 VanessaE exactly 20:26 sokomine a general node might not be a bad idea after all for those huge trees. could be useful for other mods as well that want to detect trees. they're more complicated than the typical 4-trunks-upward-and-leaves-version 20:26 VanessaE sokomine: well there's also group:moretrees_trunk 20:27 VanessaE :-) 20:27 sokomine ...which will also occur in my houses since they will use the same wood the tree is made out of... 20:28 sokomine such a root-node could help supply jungletrees with those roots they used to have in bas' mod 20:28 sokomine that's something i miss with the moretrees-version 20:29 VanessaE you mean the + shaped roots? 20:29 sokomine yes, those 20:29 VanessaE that's easy to add, should be a small matter of a quick tweak to the jungletrees model 20:30 VanessaE check tree_models.lua, maybe you can play around with it? 20:35 VanessaE worst case it would require adding some code to the function that is called to spawn a jungle tree (like firs, they are spawned by function call rather that directly) to manually draw the roots 20:38 VanessaE bbiab 20:38 VanessaE gotta run an errand 20:55 MiJyn does anyone know what causes a chunk to load? 20:55 MiJyn if a player is in it? 20:55 MiJyn if an entity is in it? 20:56 MiJyn I mean, a player/entity moves inside it 21:11 Kacey Menche's server crashed... 21:14 * Kacey lagtest 21:14 Kacey hi all 22:05 VanessaE MiJyn: generally, if the player is looking at it and it's close enough 22:06 Kacey http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=1NyogxL54NE lol 22:17 MiJyn @VanessaE, oh... so I can't even cheat it :/ 22:17 VanessaE not yet 22:17 VanessaE there's been talk of making it possible for the client to request blocks, and also of Lua mods doing the same, but no one's decided to make this happen yet 22:22 MiJyn dang 22:23 MiJyn I'll have to make a bot 22:23 MiJyn or something 22:29 MiJyn are there any tutorials for bot-making? 22:29 MiJyn in lua 22:29 VanessaE nope, not that I know of 22:29 MiJyn ok 22:29 VanessaE no one would EVER compose such a thing - how dare you even suggest it, you hacker ;) 22:30 MiJyn uh whut? 22:30 VanessaE gah, so much for that joke 22:31 MiJyn ok xD 22:31 MiJyn ok, so is it possible to create a new player in lua? 22:32 VanessaE not that I know of. 22:32 VanessaE you're gonna have to do this in an external program or something 22:32 MiJyn oh :/ 22:33 MiJyn ok, I guess I'll just wait 22:36 Kacey what is a gpu? 22:37 VanessaE graphics card 22:37 VanessaE namely, the main chip on the card 22:37 VanessaE Graphics Processing Unit 22:55 sokomine how can i overload the spawn_tree function? does it work at all? it's in the lua api... 22:55 VanessaE overload it? 22:56 VanessaE you mean overlay it 22:56 VanessaE as in wedge into it? 22:56 xming I was wondering how do those moreblocks/ores mods work when I drop them in a existing world? Will they change existing blocks? 22:56 sokomine xming: only newly generated 22:56 sokomine vanessa: yes 22:57 xming that makes sense 22:57 sokomine jin_xi suggested https://gist.github.com/obneq/4980214 ... does not seem to work in this case? 22:58 VanessaE I 22:58 VanessaE I'll have to leave you to it, I don't know how to do that 23:01 VanessaE I know, fat lotta help I am today :D 23:05 xming is "Dwarves" a good gametype/collection of mods to start with? 23:08 VanessaE dunno 23:10 xming trying to setup a server without much knowledge in MT 23:10 xming adding mods bit by bit 23:11 xming then noticed (by reading here) that some are outdated/unmaintained 23:11 xming so what's the best practice here for a n00b? 23:12 VanessaE just do what you're doing now 23:12 VanessaE use common sense, try mods out one at a time, see what works for you 23:12 xming and leran by trial & error? :D 23:13 VanessaE watch the forums for mod updates, and yeah learn by trial and error :-) 23:13 xming not very "user friendly" :p 23:14 xming personally I am not scared by it, just lack of time 23:14 xming but I can imaging some newcomer might get scared 23:15 FreeFull xming: Named after the X11 server for windows? 23:15 xming there are no plans for central repo, compatibility test, status checks? 23:15 xming FreeFull: nope, I should sue Xming for that 23:16 xming note the capital X 23:16 xming I have been using this nick (xming) on irc since 1991, way before Xming 23:17 FreeFull I think Windows 3 did have an X server, although it wasn't Xming 23:18 xming Xming was launched around 2000 23:18 xming IIRC 23:39 jojoa1997 can anyone tell me the code to make an object go in someone's inventory 23:40 RealBadAngel you mean create new stack and place it inventory? 23:40 jojoa1997 yes 23:40 RealBadAngel hold on a sec 23:41 jojoa1997 i want to use luacontrollers to give me some stuff 23:44 RealBadAngel local item={} 23:44 RealBadAngel item["name"]="default:cobble" 23:44 RealBadAngel item["count]="10" 23:44 RealBadAngel local itemstack:replace(item) 23:44 RealBadAngel this is how you create new stack 23:44 jojoa1997 thanks you soo much 23:48 MiJyn so with luacontroller, you can give yourself 1000 mese, correct? 23:48 MiJyn no cost to you 23:48 MiJyn only the cost of a luacontroller 23:49 sokomine same with creative? 23:50 MiJyn yeah, but I'm talking about survival 23:54 VanessaE more likely, you'd pop up a 1000-mese entity that you can then pick up 23:54 VanessaE that'd be a little more fair to the other players anyway ;-)