Time  Nick          Message
00:01 tsquar3d      Can you make lockable doors on the europe.minetest.org server?
00:01 VanessaE      no clue
00:02 VanessaE      never played on that server
00:13 OldCoder      tsquar3d, what mod would that be?
00:13 bulletrulz    hi
00:14 tsquar3d      OldCoder: What would what be?
00:14 OldCoder      <tsquar3d> Can you make lockable doors on the europe.minetest.org server?
00:16 tsquar3d      Are you asking what the server is or what lockable doors are?
00:18 VanessaE      he's asking which mod provides such.
00:18 VanessaE      OldCoder is quite aware of what the server is.  :-)
00:18 OldCoder      Indeed
00:19 OldCoder      Indicate the mod you wish to inquire about
00:19 OldCoder      Its presence or absence will be revealed
00:19 OldCoder      Actually I should update http://minetest.org/ to document Europe
00:20 * OldCoder    shrugs
00:20 OldCoder      If you wish lockable doors it will be arranged
00:20 OldCoder
00:22 tsquar3d      I do wish lockable doors. :-)
00:22 tsquar3d      Sorry.
00:22 tsquar3d      Ha.
00:34 OldCoder      tsquar3d, If it is not a problem for other mods it shall be so
00:35 OldCoder      We're big on backwards compatibility and not breaking everything
00:35 tsquar3d      Wow.. cool.
00:38 OldCoder      tsquar3d, Somebody made a mesecons door but I don't think that's what you mean. See if you can find a link to such a mod. If one exists we'll evaluate it.
00:38 tsquar3d      Ah.. okay.
00:38 OldCoder      Somebody else is using pistons; possibly in a similar way
00:39 tsquar3d      Right now I am working on a blender model of a Dungeon Master. :-)
00:39 OldCoder      You are the Very Model of a Modern Major Blender
00:39 OldCoder      ^ obscure reference
00:40 tsquar3d      Ha.. thanks, I think.
01:32 LandMine_     VanessaE have you forgiven me?
01:32 VanessaE      ...
01:35 LandMine_     ill take that as a yes
01:35 LandMine_     dont worry i have forgiven you too
01:40 Kacey         hello
01:41 Kacey         anybody alive?
01:41 VanessaE      nno
01:41 VanessaE      the channel's dead.
01:41 LandMine      ooh
01:43 Kacey         sorry had to do that out of adhd
01:43 LandMine_     ok?
01:43 Kacey         this channel does seem dead
01:44 LandMine_     it is
01:44 Kacey         why dont you change your nick back?
01:46 Kacey         to just LandMine
01:47 LandMine_     cause im to lazy
01:48 Kacey         lol
01:49 LandMine_     yeh
01:49 Kacey         well im going to get off for a bit
01:49 LandMine_     so Kacey is aggies your brotheR?
01:49 LandMine_     ohh ok
01:49 Kacey         aggies is my brother
03:00 OldCoder      Muadtralk, Hi
03:00 Muadtralk     greetings
03:00 VanessaE      evening OldCoder, Muadtralk
03:31 OldCoder      I am asleep; back in a few hours or on Tuesday
04:16 VanessaE      in answer to his previous question, no.
04:19 VanessaE      not after the topic of his I just deleted (showing how to do rollback-proof griefing by exploiting the well-known bug in sapling->tree growth)
04:26 VanessaE      bbl
06:20 ruskie        *yawn*
06:24 ruskie        OldCoder, possibly this for lockable doors(and I'd like that as well) http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3653 , also I use constructors from technic for doors but will need to add a "lockable" button so that only the player can use the button
06:52 bulletrulz    hey
13:32 NekoGloop     MC Technic, y u so laggy.
13:55 OldCoder      Hello
13:55 OldCoder      RealBadAngel, babyface has reported a possibly significant Technic issue. If she shows up would you be willing to ask her about it?
13:56 OldCoder      ruskie, I am headed out on an early errand (6:00am here) and will review that when I return
14:31 PilzAdam      Hello everyone!
14:34 OldCoder      Hello back
14:42 RealBadAngel  hellou Minetest
14:43 RealBadAngel  Oldcoder its mesecons issue
14:43 PilzAdam      hi RBA
14:43 RealBadAngel  sticky pistons are buggy
14:43 OldCoder      RealBadAngel, should they be patched out?
14:43 OldCoder      They are causing damage in one world
14:44 OldCoder      Is there a simple way to disable them?
14:44 RealBadAngel  pistons?
14:44 RealBadAngel  its a needed element
14:44 RealBadAngel  need to be fixed just
14:45 OldCoder      Suggestions?
14:45 OldCoder      I think I need to disable them
14:45 OldCoder      Until the fix is made
14:45 OldCoder      They are damaging a world right now
14:45 RealBadAngel  no you dont need to
14:45 RealBadAngel  how?
14:45 OldCoder      Speak with Baby Face
14:45 OldCoder      When she is here
14:45 OldCoder      If there is no solution I'd like to disable them
14:45 RealBadAngel  wait, wait
14:45 OldCoder      She has reported something that sounds dangerous
14:46 RealBadAngel  i just bug report and you want to kill the patient
14:46 RealBadAngel  *got
14:46 RealBadAngel  bugs are found thx to the users
14:47 RealBadAngel  thx to that we can make game better
14:48 OldCoder      Sure
14:49 OldCoder      I leave it to you and her; but the problem sounds serious right now
14:49 OldCoder      The point is not killing the patient; it's quarantine
14:54 RealBadAngel  not really
14:54 RealBadAngel  its not world devastatin or something
14:55 RealBadAngel  its duplication bug, minecraft seen dozens of duplications issues and lives
14:57 OldCoder      RealBadAngel, what she's told me sounds pretty destructive
14:57 RealBadAngel  i need to wait for babyface now, so she can show me how exacly it works
14:57 OldCoder      Sure; thank you
14:57 RealBadAngel  then i will be able to fix it
14:57 OldCoder      Your time is appreciated
14:57 RealBadAngel  when i know how it works
14:58 RealBadAngel  how i do know that bells can be heard, but i have no glue which church
15:10 OldCoder      Heh
15:10 OldCoder      :-)
15:15 ruskie        hehe
15:17 ruskie        RealBadAngel, how's the MV stuff coming along?
15:19 ruskie        RealBadAngel, also suggestion: wood planks or wood -> grinder -> sawdust -> sawdust+glue -> MDF blocks
15:20 ruskie        and MDF+dye -> coloured MDF blocks
15:29 RealBadAngel  need to test them a bit before can go public
15:29 RealBadAngel  i do have some nasty glitches
15:29 * VanessaE    pokes RealBadAngel and PilzAdam just for fun ;)
15:30 RealBadAngel  mdf idea is quite nice
15:30 RealBadAngel  but propably more for furniture mod :)
15:30 RealBadAngel  hi VanessaE
15:30 VanessaE      hi all
15:30 PilzAdam      hi VanessaE
15:31 RealBadAngel  with mdf you can make Ikea mod ;)
15:31 VanessaE      G*d forbid
15:31 VanessaE      every-fricken-one uses MDF here for stuff you'd think would be cheaper if done with solid wood
15:31 * ruskie      likes ikea stuff
15:31 VanessaE      and as soon as water hits it?  bye bye structural integrity
15:31 RealBadAngel  best thing to buy at Ikea imho are hotdogs
15:32 VanessaE      RealBadAngel: as long as the MDF you have in mind degrades back into sawdust when exposed to water, it'll be realistic ;)
15:32 ruskie        ikea doesn't use pure mdf but engineered stuff with high density on the outside and medium density inside
15:32 RealBadAngel  whatever, still mass production shit :)
15:33 ruskie        I can get the same shit from a local independant
15:33 ruskie        at twice-to-three times the price
15:33 RealBadAngel  two or three times at ikea, and you will go for real furniture
15:33 RealBadAngel  not cartoon ones
15:34 ruskie        ???
15:34 ruskie        most of the furniture I have is from ikea
15:34 ruskie        frankly the quality is better than the local stuff
15:34 RealBadAngel  most of the furniture i have is made of wood
15:35 ruskie        so is most of the stuff I have
15:35 RealBadAngel  i do even have a cupboard made before world war 2
15:35 ruskie        just not solid wood
15:35 VanessaE      most of what we have is MDF :-/
15:35 ruskie        frankly solid wood isn't all that better than mdf for 90% of stuff
15:35 VanessaE      unless you count the wood the house's frame is built from.
15:36 ruskie        kitchen cabinets work just fine with mdf
15:36 RealBadAngel  tell that to 50-60 yrs old wooden furniture
15:36 ruskie        as do properly constructed tables
15:36 RealBadAngel  still lookin way better than any ikea shit
15:36 ruskie        the only solid wood thing I have and will continue to have is a bed
15:36 ruskie        RealBadAngel, frankly I like minimalistic stuff that ikea produces
15:37 ruskie        I don't like all the fancy crowning and molding on most solid wood products
15:37 ruskie        and I really can't complain about the quality
15:37 RealBadAngel  then go to small factory that produces furniture on demand
15:37 ruskie        RealBadAngel, and pay 20 times what costs me?
15:37 ruskie        no thans
15:37 ruskie        thanks
15:38 RealBadAngel  they will made you whatever you want
15:38 RealBadAngel  20 times?
15:38 ruskie        yeah
15:38 RealBadAngel  not here in Poland
15:38 RealBadAngel  maybe 2, 3 times more
15:38 ruskie        still too much
15:38 ruskie        for something that will fail one way or another
15:38 ruskie        also ikea gives me the option of easily changing stuff after a few years if I get fed up with it
15:39 RealBadAngel  for a piece of furniture that will propably serve your children too?
15:39 ruskie        I don't want it to serve my children
15:39 ruskie        I want it to serve me and my tastes
15:39 ruskie        not someone elses tastes
15:39 RealBadAngel  i rather prefer solid products
15:39 ruskie        well this table I got from ikea is solid enough
15:39 RealBadAngel  pay more and have good one
15:39 ruskie        I can stand on it with my 130kgs
15:40 VanessaE      I built a ~ 2.4m x 1.2m table recently from LDF and solid wood studs.  I can stand my 177 kg on it.
15:41 VanessaE      try that with a table that size made entirely from MDF.  ain't gonna happen.
15:41 ruskie        this one is 1.6x2.0m
15:41 ruskie        but it has a steel construction underneath and legs that bear the weight
15:41 RealBadAngel  mdf is just and idea what to make from leftovers when using real wood
15:42 RealBadAngel  instead of throw it away, as garbage, they are makin MDF
15:42 VanessaE      see?  that's cheating.  this is entirely made from wood, put together with good, decent screws.  Total cost?  about US $25.
15:42 ruskie        well I don't much care for just wood
15:42 ruskie        I like combinations
15:42 RealBadAngel  of trash
15:42 RealBadAngel  :)
15:43 ruskie        especially where it makes sense
15:43 RealBadAngel  most modern materials are just trash and recycled ones
15:43 ruskie        well that's good
15:43 PilzAdam      yesterday it was 5:2 for not renewable lava
15:43 VanessaE      RealBadAngel: which to be fair is a good thing.
15:43 PilzAdam      anything changed about that?
15:43 ruskie        preserves the forests etc...
15:43 RealBadAngel  yes, but still
15:44 RealBadAngel  thanks to it youre forced to buy stuff all over again
15:44 VanessaE      "preserves the forests", meanwhile trees are a renewable resource
15:44 VanessaE      the problem isn't how much we use - the problem is how much we *put back*
15:44 VanessaE      (as in re-plant)
15:44 ruskie        RealBadAngel, well so far I haven't been forced to re-buy anything
15:44 RealBadAngel  lucky you
15:45 VanessaE      hey, Jordach.
15:45 ruskie        and I had sides in the kitchen soaked in water, wine and I don't know what else
15:45 Jordach       hey VanessaE
15:45 ruskie        it's still holding together
15:45 VanessaE      ruskie: most people who end up with some shit made with MDF will have replaced it at some point because it just doesn't have the longevity of solid wood.
15:45 RealBadAngel  i would even risk to say that youre just lookin at your ikea at home and not actually using them :)
15:45 ruskie        RealBadAngel, sorry I cook a lot so that's a no
15:46 ruskie        my tables are host to a soldering iron and a lot of other tools
15:46 ruskie        and computer parts and I don't know what else
15:46 RealBadAngel  all that on MDF?
15:46 ruskie        as said ikea doesn't use pure mdf
15:47 RealBadAngel  i know what ikea is selling
15:47 ruskie        but yeah
15:47 ruskie        all tables from ikea
15:47 RealBadAngel  cheap shit for happy consumers
15:47 ruskie        heh
15:47 RealBadAngel  im not happy consumer
15:47 ruskie        well in the end happy customers are what matters
15:47 ruskie        sorry I don't consider myself a consumer
15:48 ruskie        I think before I buy
15:48 RealBadAngel  vanessa how was called the comedian with show bout happy consumers?
15:48 VanessaE      um
15:48 RealBadAngel  he is dead
15:48 VanessaE      maybe Penn and Teller?
15:48 RealBadAngel  remember? we all livin in the third mall to the sun
15:48 VanessaE      or George Carlin, both are known for such stuff.
15:49 RealBadAngel  i will try to find that show
15:49 VanessaE      and two of the three names above, I believe, are dead.
15:49 RealBadAngel  got him
15:49 RealBadAngel  Bill Hicks
15:49 ruskie        specifically I have a lot of expedits, kitchen and galant tables
15:50 ruskie        RealBadAngel, I was the same as you before I tried some pieces from ikea
15:50 ruskie        I considered them producing shit and crap that would just break
15:50 RealBadAngel  when i was livinin in germany i used to assemble Ikea shit for german folks
15:50 RealBadAngel  50euro per piece of shit
15:50 Jordach       RealBadAngel - extortion?
15:51 ruskie        I can't make that claim anymore... I'm happy with the quality for the price it's offered... I have yet to have anything break or somehow fail
15:51 Jordach       lolIkea
15:51 RealBadAngel  they paid me more sometimes that the piece of furniture was worth, just for assembling it
15:51 VanessaE      maybe it's just that the shit furniture by ikea and co. make it to everyone else except certain locales
15:51 ruskie        RealBadAngel, yeah I would believe that as someone doing that professionally you would see more of the bad than someone constructing the stuff for themselves
15:52 RealBadAngel  i do work with doors, windows etc
15:52 ruskie        VanessaE, well the kitchen offered by the local quality companies is the same quality as ikea... except 3 times as more expensive
15:52 RealBadAngel  so i know materials that are used
15:52 * Jordach     knows a little carpentry
15:52 RealBadAngel  what is shit and whats good
15:53 ruskie        RealBadAngel, also how long ago was this?
15:53 RealBadAngel  what?
15:53 ruskie        the building ikea stuff for customers?
15:53 VanessaE      the only carpentry I know is "use solid wood, glue, and screws and build the fucker to last.", not "use MDF, nails, and screw cams and just make sure it lasts over 90 days."
15:53 RealBadAngel  several yrs ago
15:53 RealBadAngel  i was livin in Berlin 2005-2009
15:54 RealBadAngel  assemblin a stupid desk was worth 50 euro
15:54 ruskie        well depends what you did
15:55 ruskie        some desks are a PITA
15:55 RealBadAngel  just RTFM
15:55 ruskie        but yeah FM tends to work
15:55 RealBadAngel  and used my screwdriver
15:56 ruskie        I wish I had a desk like I have at home also at work
15:56 ruskie        because the custom crap from a carpenter there can't stand up straight most of the time
15:56 RealBadAngel  the desk im using right now is circa 20 yrs old
15:56 RealBadAngel  and will serve another 20 for sure
15:57 RealBadAngel  like the belt for trousers i got on my 18th birthday
15:57 ruskie        well it works if you're happy with things not changing much
15:57 RealBadAngel  im using it all the time
15:57 RealBadAngel  military one
15:57 ruskie        I'm happy with what I have atm
15:58 ruskie        but I might not be in 5 years time
15:58 RealBadAngel  propably will live longer than i
16:00 RealBadAngel  the point is, nowadays producers are not interested in makin products that will serve you for a lifetime
16:00 RealBadAngel  theyre using worse materials, calculated to serve you just warranty time
16:01 RealBadAngel  so you will behave like a good child and go buy new one
16:01 ruskie        I am aware of that
16:01 RealBadAngel  all that started with BIC
16:02 RealBadAngel  one time shavin machines and ball points
16:02 RealBadAngel  now the idea is everywhere
16:02 ruskie        but chances are I'll replace most of the furniture before it will die
16:03 RealBadAngel  notice that even most of the stuff if you would even want to, its impossible to repair
16:03 RealBadAngel  its designed to be single use
16:04 RealBadAngel  with computers its even worse
16:04 ruskie        I rather spend extra money on good food than on material things
16:04 RealBadAngel  it may actually be working still
16:04 RealBadAngel  but you wont get drivers or run new soft
16:04 ruskie        only on wincrap and mac
16:05 RealBadAngel  yup, amd on linux refused to support my 1,5yr old card
16:05 Jordach       RealBadAngel - the futon im sitting on right now is 2yr old and the only thing broken is one bar where my fat ass has been sitting
16:05 Jordach       (for the last two years)
16:06 ruskie        my solid wood or MDF beds tend to break
16:06 ruskie        doesn't matter the material it will break
16:07 ruskie        to much weight and I roll a lot in my sleep
16:10 RealBadAngel  VanessaE, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSSUBqBi6k
16:10 OldCoder      <ruskie> I rather spend extra money on good food than on material things
16:10 VanessaE      I'll watch some other time, enjoying the quiet right now
16:10 OldCoder      Food is material and quite tasty material at that
16:10 VanessaE      (save for the fans anyway)
16:11 ruskie        OldCoder, hehe
16:12 RealBadAngel  VanessaE, look for his whole show
16:13 RealBadAngel  its just great
16:15 RealBadAngel  the show is called "Sane man" i believe
16:23 jin_xi        hi all
16:23 jin_xi        Hey VanessaE, hows the kitten?
16:23 VanessaE      she's doing well
16:24 VanessaE      A total nutball with boundless energy.
16:24 jin_xi        lol, yesterday i was working in a clients garden
16:24 jin_xi        punching trees and stuff
16:24 jin_xi        and his kitten constantly climbed up my legs
16:25 Jordach       <VanessaE> A total nutball with boundless energy. did you mean: every cat on earth?
16:25 VanessaE      Jordach: haha
16:25 VanessaE      jin_xi: awwwww
16:26 Calinou       <jin_xi> punching trees and stuff
16:26 Calinou       playing too much minecraft/minetest hurts
16:26 Calinou       don't punch trees IRL :|
16:26 VanessaE      lol
16:30 OldCoder      Calinou, speak for yourself
16:30 OldCoder      You never heard of Tree Boxing?
16:30 OldCoder      I think it's a big thing Down Under
16:30 OldCoder      :p
16:32 sokomine      as far as furniture is concerned: ikea used to have nice stuff years ago. but nowerdays they don't have the furniture i want
16:32 PilzAdam      do people want steel doors?
16:32 OldCoder      Steel will be Real
16:32 OldCoder      Quite a Deal
16:32 OldCoder      I Feel
16:32 ruskie        PilzAdam, yes
16:33 OldCoder      It's worthwhile
16:33 OldCoder      People will smile
16:33 OldCoder      At Real Deal Steel
16:33 OldCoder      :-)
16:33 ruskie        hehe
16:33 sokomine      spent a holiday in a room with furniture out of real wood (how do you call wood from needle trees?) and didn't want anything other afterwards :-)
16:33 OldCoder      Pine
16:33 OldCoder      sokomine, pine is fine I want mine
16:33 ruskie        well pine being just one of the ones
16:33 ruskie        isn't it?
16:33 OldCoder      He was asking about the name
16:34 OldCoder      Of the furniture he'd tried
16:34 ruskie        if I wanted to have solid wood furniture I'd probably go with larch myself
16:35 ruskie        I wish there were more trees in minetest
16:35 ruskie        and more wood
16:35 ruskie        I don't much care for this generic wood block
16:35 jin_xi        mauvebic has some nice wooden panels
16:36 sokomine      steel doors are useful. addi did one on the kingarthur server combined with an early stage of my locks-mod
16:36 ruskie        sokomine, add mesecons buttons/switches/etc... locks mod
16:36 sokomine      ah, pine. but there are two types: kiefer and fichte. only one of them is pine i think
16:37 * ruskie      prefers to use alpine for mail ;)
16:38 sokomine      try pilzadams farming_plus. it adds nice banana- and cacao-trees. the fruits shine in the dark. really nice sight. and the rubber trees from farming are nice as well
16:38 ruskie        sokomine, they lack different wood
16:38 ruskie        as in wood block and the wooden planks
16:38 ruskie        it's all the same wood
16:43 Calinou       v<sokomine> as far as furniture is concerned: ikea used to have nice stuff years ago. but nowerdays they don't have the furniture i want
16:44 Calinou       buy books from amazon (ubuntu's shopping lens), make furniture with.
16:46 Jordach       lolUbuntu1210
16:48 sokomine      hmm. there are some mods that add diffrent wood as well
16:50 sokomine      calinou: thanks, but now i'm happy with my furniture :-) nice thicker pine(?)wood (not as thin as the cheap ones but still only relatively cheap wood and not oak or something like that)
16:50 Calinou       Jordach: heh
16:50 Calinou       the only people that whine about it are experienced people
16:50 Calinou       no newbies whined about it
16:50 sokomine      about what?
16:50 Calinou       harshlinuxians attack ubuntu; that's normal, let them be
16:50 Calinou       we don't do that the other way
16:50 Calinou       (rarely)
16:51 * Calinou     is one of the 5 people in the world that dislike arch
16:51 sokomine      ah, that :-)
16:51 * ruskie      isn't a fan as well
16:51 Calinou       the 4 others being mark shuttleworth, jeff bezos, tim cook, steve ballmer, obama
16:51 Calinou       :p
16:51 Calinou       erm, that is 5.
16:52 * Jordach     hates Arch
16:53 jin_xi        how one can end up hating something like a software he is not forced to use is beyond me
16:53 Calinou       true
16:53 jin_xi        let the hate flow through you young padawan
16:53 OldCoder      <Calinou> harshlinuxians attack ubuntu; that's normal, let them be
16:53 OldCoder      That is a fun term
16:53 OldCoder      I will note it
16:53 OldCoder      Harsh Linux
16:53 Calinou       I quit hating unity a while ago, since I started using xfce
16:53 OldCoder      I wonder what the distro includes
16:54 Lumpio-       It's spelled arch
16:54 Calinou       nothing, just chroot and ping
16:54 OldCoder      Ah
16:54 Calinou       to install: ping www.google.com
16:54 OldCoder      No /usr/bin/hate then
16:54 Calinou       chroot /usr/bin/hate
16:54 Calinou       there, you installed arch
16:54 OldCoder      Very well
16:54 * OldCoder    laughs
16:57 OldCoder      Hmm somebody elsewhere has just christened me EmCee Coder
17:02 jin_xi        who's the G
17:02 OldCoder      G?
17:04 jin_xi        Gangsta...
17:05 PilzAdam      https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/commit/9e2b22b50b3ef39a9ad9552b4cddd273cafa16d7
17:05 PilzAdam      ^ should i bring this upstream?
17:05 sokomine      what's in it?
17:05 PilzAdam      its a new doors mod
17:06 PilzAdam      it is 3D and easy
17:06 PilzAdam      + to texture
17:06 PilzAdam      it also adds steel doors
17:06 VanessaE      PilzAdam: you should use the doors code from Homedecor instead - it is far simpler than this.
17:06 Calinou       PilzAdam: +1 push to upstream
17:07 Calinou       VanessaE: does your mod have automatic "double door" placement?
17:07 sokomine      there are a number of door mods out. perhaps some can be combined
17:07 VanessaE      no, but you can flip doors in the crafting grid.  double-door placement would be fairly easy to add I'm sure.
17:07 PilzAdam      sokomine, my mod combines all the good features
17:07 PilzAdam      VanessaE, my mod has auto flip
17:07 sokomine      what does your mod do?
17:07 Calinou       PilzAdam: stick to 16x16 textures for pure brown/gray
17:07 Calinou       texture alias will go less funky
17:09 PilzAdam      this would just waste memory
17:09 Calinou       optipng your textures :p
17:09 sokomine      hm, the homedecor mod of vanessa certainly has a lot of nice doors to offer with good textures
17:09 Calinou       we should optipng all the default textures...
17:10 Calinou       makes them much lighter since they'll be 8 bit-colored
17:10 Calinou       (you can't have more than 256 colors in a 16x16 texture..)
17:12 jin_xi        su
17:13 Calinou       PilzAdam: http://ompldr.org/vZzlzYw/compressed-textures.zip
17:13 Calinou       (this should replace all the default game textures)
17:14 sokomine      after a short glance on the doors: it annoys me that each door is implemented anew even though most of the time they only supply diffrent textures and nodeboxes. that's true for vanessas doors and i don't see much configurability on pilzadams door right now?
17:16 PilzAdam      my mod adds an function to register doors
17:16 PilzAdam      it has a fixed nodebox
17:17 sokomine      vanessas doors have more complex nodeboxes (they have glass-parts inserted). and addis steel-door consists of bars. can that be done with your mod?
17:18 PilzAdam      sokomine, this would be too much for the default door mod in the main game
17:19 sokomine      ah. found the function. hm. looks flexible. still...doors are doors. make the nodebox an optional parameter - and if none is supplied use your default one
17:22 sokomine      with a bit of tree, wood, 3dforniture and vanessas wood-and-glass-doors, a small wooden house almost automaticly looks great :-)
17:26 Jordach       3Dforniure should be default
17:27 sokomine      yes :-) at least the table+chair+armchair. the medieval part, rounded trees and bathroom set (very nice but not suitable for medieval environment) do not always fit
17:33 sokomine      is there any way to find out more easily what is causing lag in minetest? apart from deinstalling and reinstalling mods?
17:33 OldCoder      sokomine, Lag on a server?
17:34 sokomine      yes
17:34 sokomine      not on yours :-)
17:34 OldCoder      Could try exactly the same setup on a different server.
17:34 OldCoder      This might indicate if it was simply the connection.
17:34 OldCoder      Or run the same setup locally.
17:35 sokomine      no, the server owner confirmed that it was an issue of high cpu usage
17:35 OldCoder      Then run it locally
17:35 OldCoder      Does the problem return there?
17:35 sokomine      the problem happens mostly when newly generated areas are visited. but not only...
17:35 OldCoder      Does it occur in singleplayer mode?
17:36 sokomine      hm. i don't know. but 2 players are enough to cause it
17:36 OldCoder      Not just one, then
17:36 OldCoder      So it needs a remote server for debugging
17:37 sokomine      especially if a player logs in...
17:37 Calinou       <Jordach> 3Dforniure should be default
17:37 Calinou       fuck no
17:37 Calinou       _maybe_ chairs and tables.
17:37 Calinou       nothing else
17:37 sokomine      why not? furniture is great!
17:37 Calinou       1) looks like shit
17:37 Calinou       2) too many nodeboxes for some of them
17:37 Calinou       3) FFS, it's furniture not forniture
17:39 sokomine      oh, hm, too many nodeboxes does not seem to be that big of a problem? i had about 100 3d-sheep running around, and the 3d-player of pilzadam uses a lot of nodeboxes as well. doesn't seem to cause any slowdown
17:39 sokomine      ok, point 3) is a valid argument :-)
17:40 Calinou       also, the 3D torches make me vomit frame pointers
17:41 Calinou       (and you can't even place these on floors/ceilings)
17:41 sokomine      hm, ok, i don't like the 3d torches as well. but chair and table are a must. they improve the game a lot
17:41 sokomine      and the table lamp is nice as well
17:41 telek         Honestly there should be 2d alts of all 3d items.
17:42 Calinou       maybe the table lamp too
17:42 telek         And they can be auto-generated off 3d voxel models anyway.
17:43 telek         Do it server-side either at server startup or when a new item is loaded and it should be a large performance hit for either client or server.
17:43 sokomine      plus the armchair?
17:43 telek         s/should/shouldn't/
17:43 * sokomine    looks hopefully at calinou
17:43 Calinou       the steel armchair would be ok too
17:44 sokomine      hm. the 2d-images work for some things. for plants they look quite well. but the 3d-models of furniture are far better i think
17:44 telek         Also: What's the slowest client computer anybody has run on?
17:44 telek         sokomine: While I agree, some people may have performance limitations making the option of 2d imposters more sensible.
17:44 sokomine      er...don't know. but if 2d-models are good for slower computers as an option then do them
17:45 telek         Also has anybody thought about or done work on a distance fog slider?
17:46 Calinou       press +/-
17:46 sokomine      i've calculated that a recent celeron (not the developer but the cpu :-)) for ~40 euro (~2.6 ghz, dual core) would be about 50% faster than my 4-year-old computer
17:46 telek         Calinou: Oh neat!
17:46 telek         sokomine: Any modern proc for around that much would be :D
17:46 Calinou       (this changes minimum view distance, maximum is always 160, if minimum goes above maximum the minimum value is used)
17:46 telek         Calinou: Is that listed in the help somewhere?
17:47 sokomine      well, it's not much compared to the speedup in the years bevor
17:47 sokomine      er, before
17:47 Calinou       nope :) it should be
17:47 Calinou       http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Getting_started < there's a control list here, it should be completed, yes
17:48 telek         Ahh ok :)
17:48 sokomine      but the grapics are onboard. most likely that's the thing which slows all graphic things down terribly on my computer. minecraft classic can be either played well with fog turned to highest or the building be seen in full with fog turned to lowest and control slipping away due to low framerate
17:49 sokomine      minetest does better. however, it takes long to load really huge structures
17:49 sokomine      i havn't been able to see the eiffel tower on redcrabs server in full yet
17:49 telek         I've been wondering about that.
17:49 sokomine      so...taking care of even slower computers might be a good idea as long as it's optional
17:50 telek         How many blocks can the server send at a time, and what's the algorithm for doing so?
17:50 telek         Because rather than expanding outward from the player it seems to really load some random cells far out from where my player is.
17:50 sokomine      i suppose one chunk of 16x16x16 is send each time
17:51 telek         And yeah I know the minetest.conf options regarding it. I mean what sort of limit will you hit before causing server instability, as far as increasing the number 'in the line'?
17:51 sokomine      that's how the game's organized according to the documentation. and it is consistend with what can be seen when one waits for the landscape to arrive on a server
17:51 telek         There's conf options to change that, both per player and total across the server.
17:52 sokomine      do you think that will be significant? if the server has to only load the chunks and pass them on to the client it ought to be primarily a question of how fast the connection is. unless abms and such do something to the data..
17:52 telek         However I'd set them up to 8 per player back around 0.3.1 or something, and during the 0.4 era that appeared to cause server instability, both with and without mods installed (although a dramatic increase with mods, notably the animal mod)
17:53 telek         sokomine: It depends on what sort of acknoledgement and waitstates are used before sending another block.
17:53 sokomine      the animals mod got a lot tamer. animals are only created on newly generated areas per default. having lots of them run around in one place seems to work fine
17:53 sokomine      hmm
17:53 telek         That, some item mod, and both money mods were causing crashes on my server the other day.
17:54 telek         I'd tracked down some crashing to being due to the animal mod, and some due to the previous update (I did a git update from the last 'official' devel release to trunk the other day.
17:56 sokomine      well, i lost animals that where gathered in huge masses in a fenced-off area (i had placed them there) and they disappeared after restart. but that might have to do with 4seasons - might have missed something when making them work together
17:56 * telek       nods.
18:13 Octupus       Hola
18:14 Calinou       hi
18:35 NakedFury     how is everyone?
18:35 PilzAdam      fine
18:35 Jordach       alright
18:35 Calinou       alwrong
18:36 NakedFury     alwrong?
18:36 PilzAdam      where are all the special commands for the tile string documented? (like "[combine:")
18:38 PilzAdam      is it an Irrlicht thing or is it minetest defined?
18:38 VanessaE      I believe it's an irrlicht thing.
18:45 VanessaE      I can't for the life of me find where it's documented though.
18:48 xcgurl08      hey does anyone know a medical IRC channel?
18:48 xcgurl08      or is anyone here a podiatrist..that would work as well
18:49 VanessaE      I know someone on another network who is a podiatrist actually
18:49 xcgurl08      really??
18:49 VanessaE      but I doubt he's on right now.
18:49 Octupus       I went to the doctor this morning so i am highly qualified
18:49 xcgurl08      do you know when he would be on?
18:49 VanessaE      no clue, I haven't talked to him in months.
18:49 xcgurl08      :(
18:49 xcgurl08      I've been having extreme pain in my feet when I walk for more than 5 minutes
18:49 VanessaE      better you should go see a doctor if there's a problem.
18:50 Octupus       Try your shes xcgurl08
18:50 Octupus       *shoes
19:02 jin_xi        PilzAdam: those imagestrings are a mt thing, its all in tile.cpp/h
19:02 PilzAdam      thx
19:23 PilzAdam      jin_xi, why does "[transformfxdoor_steel_b_r.png" not work?
19:26 jin_xi        idk
19:27 jin_xi        F is for flip?
19:28 PilzAdam      yep
19:28 PilzAdam      FX = flip x axis = 4
19:28 jin_xi        but you use fx
19:28 PilzAdam      https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/src/tile.cpp#L1495
19:30 jin_xi        yes, but is it case sensitive or not?
19:30 PilzAdam      i tried both
19:30 jin_xi        ok
19:31 jin_xi        did you use a ^
19:32 jin_xi        "^[transformfxdoor_steel_b_r.png"
19:32 rubenwardy    hi all
19:33 jin_xi        ok, thats not it probably
19:34 PilzAdam      hm, the warning messages are gone but the texture is still wrong
19:35 PilzAdam      s/warning/error
19:38 jin_xi        but why dont you use transform4?
19:38 jin_xi        that seems to be what you want
19:39 PilzAdam      i tried that too
19:45 jin_xi        ok, use "xdoor_steel_b_r_.png^[transformfx"
19:47 PilzAdam      that works, thx
19:48 telek         Oh another question for you guys: Anybody run into an issue where the player image turns into other texture images? I had it turning into flower pots on both sides the other day (different ones). I had texture atlas disabled (since it kept complaining about being overflowed.) Any ideas?
20:00 PilzAdam      gtg; bye
20:07 Jordach       hey guys
20:07 Jordach       OldCoder - you here
20:08 OldCoder      hi!
20:09 OldCoder      Sort of
20:09 Jordach       http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2896
20:09 Jordach       there is a win32 build of a boost mapper
20:09 Jordach       with no libs
20:09 Jordach       (with it)
20:13 bulletrulz    hey
20:17 OldCoder      Jordach, ?
20:18 OldCoder      Jordach, should I review?
20:18 OldCoder      Mapper?
20:18 Jordach       it is a c++ version of the python script
20:18 OldCoder      Go on
20:18 Jordach       it needs boost -- but the win32 has no .dll prequisites
20:19 OldCoder      All right
20:19 OldCoder      Jordach, excuse me; this seems interesting but I am distracted. Is there something I should do with this?
20:19 Jordach       look into boost for win32
20:23 OldCoder      All right
20:23 OldCoder      It may not be needed
20:23 OldCoder      thexyz has made changes that should help
20:23 OldCoder      The past week and this one are an odd period
20:23 OldCoder      When time permits there will be a new set of builds that will give me more information
21:03 Alexandre1545 Hi, i'm trying to set my own minetest server and I need some help
21:04 Alexandre1545 I'm able to connect to the server in local, but when I try with the adress IP, it don't work
21:11 RealBadAngel  you can create local server without giving adress
21:11 RealBadAngel  to connect to local one you have to enter IP
21:11 RealBadAngel  if from the very same computer use 127.0.0.1
21:14 jin_xi        RealBadAngel: i've updated tetris blocks
21:16 Alexandre1545 Hi, i'm trying to set my own minetest server and I need some help. I'm able to connect to the server in local, but when I try with the adress IP, it don't work.
21:26 telek         Alexandre1545: Provide some extra information: What operating system, which ip address (LAN or WAN), if you know what a firewall is and if it's enabled/disabled/has that port passed through.
21:30 Alexandre1545 I'm running my server on Debian 6 the ip is 24.37.79.134
21:31 RealBadAngel  if you want to connect to local server, from the very same computer use 127.0.0.1
21:31 telek         RealBadAngel: He's saying it'll connect locally but not remotely.
21:32 Alexandre1545 it's not the same computer
21:32 telek         Alexandre1545: Can you ping your server?
21:32 telek         And can you connect to other services on the server, just not the minetest server?
21:32 Alexandre1545 yes my laptop connect to it in local
21:33 Alexandre1545 i do my test with my laptop because the server is in command line
21:34 telek         'in local'? Do you mean your laptop can connect to a 'local' minetest server, or you mean it is connected to the local area network?
21:34 Alexandre1545 local network
21:34 telek         So ssh or such work to the server?
21:35 telek         Do you have nmap installed on either the server or laptop?
21:35 Alexandre1545 no
21:36 telek         You can ssh into the server?
21:36 Alexandre1545 yes
21:36 telek         Laptop is windows or linux?
21:36 Alexandre1545 Linux
21:36 telek         Debian or ubuntu?
21:37 Alexandre1545 Fedora
21:37 telek         yum install nmap (maybe also nmap-fe or nmapfe, can't remember the package name.)
21:37 telek         nmap-fe is a GUI frontend for nmap. Although command line is faster.
21:38 * telek       recommends 'nmap -sU -p30000 <ip address of server>' (assuming the minetest server is running at the default port 30000)
21:38 telek         -sU is scan UDP, -p is port number (or range, see manpage), and ip address is self explanatory :)
21:39 Alexandre1545 nmap -sU -p30000 aviactu.info
21:39 Alexandre1545 Starting Nmap 6.01 ( http://nmap.org ) at 2012-11-13 16:39 EST
21:40 Alexandre1545 Nmap scan report for aviactu.info (24.37.79.134)
21:40 Alexandre1545 Host is up (0.0042s latency).
21:40 Alexandre1545 rDNS record for 24.37.79.134: modemcable134.79-37-24.static.videotron.ca
21:40 Alexandre1545 PORT      STATE         SERVICE
21:40 Alexandre1545 30000/udp open|filtered unknown
21:40 Alexandre1545 Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 0.36 seconds
21:40 telek         Next time pastbin it or something :)
21:40 telek         Your firewall is probably filtering all unused ports.
21:41 Alexandre1545 i'm running other game server without problem
21:41 telek         On ports above or below 16000?
21:42 Alexandre1545 above
21:43 Alexandre1545 i'm running Urban Terror servers on 27960
21:44 * telek       hrmms.
21:44 telek         It hangs saying 'connecting to server'?
21:44 Alexandre1545 yes
21:45 telek         The minetestserver process is definitely running on the server?
21:45 Alexandre1545 yes i've verified with htop
21:45 RealBadAngel  have you created the world for the server?
21:46 RealBadAngel  jin_xi: those are better
21:46 telek         And the client is definitely set to port 30000, not 30001 or something?
21:47 jin_xi        your changes for background in formspec are upstream now
21:47 RealBadAngel  yeah i know
21:47 jin_xi        so i was hoping you could make a background, and maybe better buttons too?
21:47 RealBadAngel  i can
21:48 Alexandre1545 the client is on 30000
21:49 RealBadAngel  to use backgrounds you should not display black squares
21:49 RealBadAngel  just the tiles
21:49 jin_xi        ok
21:50 RealBadAngel  make this change and i will prepare simple background for start
21:50 Alexandre1545 Like I said, when i connect to the server using the local adress of my server, it work, I see the world
21:50 telek         Alexandre1545: At this point I'm not really sure what to tell you, other than ask someone on #debian and see if it's your firewall filtering ports above a certain #
21:51 telek         Ohhh
21:52 telek         It's either the firewall on your cablemodem/router, or it's a 'software limitation' that ports above 30k aren't accessable (it used to be assumed they were temporary ports only.)
21:53 Alexandre1545 in the router, the port should be tcp or udp ?
21:53 RealBadAngel  udp
21:53 Alexandre1545 oh
21:54 telek         Alexandre1545: For future reference specify 'local host' or 'local area network address'
21:54 RealBadAngel  now its working
21:54 telek         I mistook it for 'you could connect ON the computer' but not on the LAN, not via the wan.
21:54 Alexandre1545 i will try
21:55 telek         I mean you could connect within the server computer, but not from the laptop over the LAN
21:55 Alexandre1545 yes it work now
21:56 Alexandre1545 can someone test it to see if it really work
21:56 RealBadAngel  i connected to your server
21:56 RealBadAngel  everything looks ok
21:57 telek         Yep
21:59 Alexandre1545 thanks for the help
22:01 RealBadAngel  np
22:01 RealBadAngel  now you will propably want to install some mods
22:01 RealBadAngel  check the forums for them
22:03 telek         Yep, will make your server much more colorful :)
22:26 RealBadAngel  jin_xi: here?
22:30 jin_xi        yes
22:33 RealBadAngel  got small update, proper removing of machine, can i merge now?
22:33 jin_xi        go ahead
22:34 RealBadAngel  hold on
22:35 RealBadAngel  done
22:37 RealBadAngel  now whatever part you will dig, its gone, and you got 1 node back
22:37 jin_xi        nice
22:38 RealBadAngel  so, good time to think bout crafting recipe imho
22:39 jin_xi        idk, making it work properly on servers seems more important to me
22:39 jin_xi        besides, i dont really mind whatever recipe is used
22:40 RealBadAngel  that will be an easy part
22:40 RealBadAngel  shall i do that now?
22:40 jin_xi        i use giveme, mod more than play ;)
22:40 RealBadAngel  on servers folks usually dont have such rights
22:41 RealBadAngel  so it has to be craftable
22:41 jin_xi        sure
22:52 RealBadAngel  jin_xi, makin it multiplayer now
22:52 RealBadAngel  gonna take a while
22:55 jin_xi        ok, code is quite hacky, feel free to improve while you're at it
22:56 jin_xi        thanks for your help!
23:03 RealBadAngel  hmmm
23:03 RealBadAngel  just encountered a problem, store table to meta
23:03 RealBadAngel  never did that
23:04 RealBadAngel  lookin for a solution now
23:10 jin_xi        use minetest.serialize and deserialize
23:20 RealBadAngel  jin_xi, got any example on that?
23:30 jin_xi        https://github.com/obneq/painting/blob/master/init.lua#L240
23:30 jin_xi        serialize just makes table to string, then save string to meta
23:31 RealBadAngel  ah ok
23:31 RealBadAngel  thx
23:31 jin_xi        use deserialize(string) to get back table
23:31 jin_xi        but in painting its entities
23:33 jin_xi        entities can have this https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1255
23:33 jin_xi        arbitrary variable
23:34 RealBadAngel  got it workin
23:35 jin_xi        wow that was fast ;)
23:35 RealBadAngel  meta:set_string("board",minetest.serialize(board))
23:35 RealBadAngel  i dont mean whole stuff lol
23:35 RealBadAngel  just storing and restoring tables
23:35 jin_xi        but will this be needed every tick?
23:36 jin_xi        if so it would be easier use invisible entity to avoid that while game is running
23:36 RealBadAngel  every called function has to store and restore game data from meta
23:36 RealBadAngel  so each machine will be independent from anothers
23:37 jin_xi        yes, but we could register an entity for every game that is played and use its arbitrary variable for keeping track of board
23:38 jin_xi        but idk havent really thougt about it
23:38 RealBadAngel  this way it will surely work without any problems
23:39 RealBadAngel  no matter how many machines you will have or the other players
23:39 RealBadAngel  each machine will be unique
23:40 RealBadAngel  just maybe High Score table should be server wide
23:41 RealBadAngel  that could be nice, dont you think?
23:41 jin_xi        yes
23:41 jin_xi        im also thinking about what game next
23:41 RealBadAngel  pacman?
23:41 jin_xi        i think snake will work well
23:41 jin_xi        not sure if smooth movement is really doable
23:42 RealBadAngel  ive made snake game long time ago
23:42 jin_xi        snake is both grid and tick based, so
23:42 RealBadAngel  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noKH_RXHrVI
23:44 jin_xi        you made this? cool
23:47 jin_xi        nice puzzle idea
23:48 RealBadAngel  in 1992