Time  Nick          Message
00:09 VanessaE      zzz
00:48 vicscandl     im gonna go diff .4 and .4.1 to see EXACTLY what was changed...
00:48 vicscandl     after the kid playtests it a bit... heheheh
00:49 VanessaE      there's an easier way
00:49 VanessaE      https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commits/master
00:51 VanessaE      is something broke on it for you?
01:17 VanessaE      bored, bored, bored, etc.
01:54 * GTRsdk      should try 0.4.1
04:07 cornernote    hey
04:07 cornernote    i released my gamewiki mod - http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2479
04:07 VanessaE      hey
04:07 VanessaE      what, no screenshot? ;-)
04:08 cornernote    demo link
04:08 VanessaE      haha, missed that
04:08 VanessaE      (besides, I was kidding :-) )
04:08 cornernote    yeah =)
04:08 cornernote    i got that after i replied
04:08 VanessaE      you should change the download link to use ompldr or dropbox or so
04:09 cornernote    what do u have against gdocs ?
04:09 VanessaE      not everyone can use google docs
04:10 cornernote    why ?
04:10 VanessaE      (of course, I'm one who prefers a straight <a href=""> link to a file rather than piping through javascript et.al
04:10 cornernote    no login is needed
04:10 VanessaE      true
04:11 VanessaE      it works now - last time it demanded that I sign in first
04:11 cornernote    just press CRTL+S
04:11 cornernote    and it saves the zip
04:11 VanessaE      "Firefox prevented this site from opening a pop-up window."
04:11 VanessaE      heh
04:12 VanessaE      ok so it works fine. :-)
04:12 cornernote    was playing last night, wiki was sooo good to see how things are used
04:13 cornernote    eg, you are mining, and you hit tin.. and you think "i wonder what i can make from that"
04:13 VanessaE      oh by the way
04:13 VanessaE      when I last looked, the listing of ABMs was...um
04:13 VanessaE      wrong. :-)
04:13 VanessaE      and your demo link doesn't work btw
04:14 cornernote    really?  what do you get ?
04:14 cornernote    it works for me
04:14 VanessaE      gets stuck at 'looking up'
04:14 VanessaE      eventually dies out, 'Server not found'
04:15 cornernote    plz ping fasthost.com.au
04:15 VanessaE      vanessa@rainbird:~$ ping fasthost.com.au
04:15 VanessaE      ...waiting...
04:15 cornernote    hrmm.. sec,
04:15 VanessaE      [canceled]
04:15 VanessaE      vanessa@rainbird:~$ dig fasthost.com.au
04:15 VanessaE      ...waiting...
04:16 VanessaE      ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> fasthost.com.au
04:16 VanessaE      ;; global options: +cmd
04:16 VanessaE      ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
04:16 cornernote    http://www.just-ping.com/index.php?vh=fasthost.com.au&c=&s=ping%21
04:16 VanessaE      Amsterdam3, Netherlands: 	Unknown host: fasthost.com.au
04:16 VanessaE      (I'm in the US)
04:16 cornernote    try just put a record in /etc/hosts .. a line like this
04:17 cornernote    108.167.161.62 fasthost.com.au www.fasthost.com.au
04:17 VanessaE      ditto for Spain, Denmark, Switzerland, Japan, Thailand
04:17 cornernote    cant believe so few hosts support sqlite3
04:18 VanessaE      in fact about half of the locations are timing out
04:18 VanessaE      must be a network outage somewhere
04:18 cornernote    yeah
04:18 VanessaE      edited /etc/hosts.  still can't resolve it.
04:19 VanessaE      oh NOW it works.
04:19 cornernote    yay
04:19 cornernote    =)
04:19 cornernote    i only have the default items on the demo
04:19 VanessaE      or not...can't 'dig' it, but I can ping it.  go figure.
04:20 cornernote    i have to reload the mega list
04:20 cornernote    and i wanted to put more mods in
04:20 cornernote    basically troll the forums and get them all
04:20 NakedFury     ohh another thing, the game needs a better way to include player made menus
04:20 cornernote    that way people shouldnt overlap crafts
04:20 VanessaE      wait..
04:21 VanessaE      http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/minetestmods2.zip
04:22 VanessaE      vanessa@rainbird:~$ ls minetestmods/
04:22 VanessaE      add_moreores_tool  flowers				particles
04:22 VanessaE      animatedtorches    growing_trees			pipeworks
04:22 VanessaE      blox		   homedecor				poisonivy
04:22 VanessaE      bobblocks	   Jeija-minetest-mod-mesecons-04bcc45	pushable_block
04:22 VanessaE      bushes		   junglegrass				stairsplus
04:22 VanessaE      coloredwood	   locked_sign				throwing
04:22 VanessaE      cotton		   maptools				unifieddyes
04:22 VanessaE      doorsplus	   moreblocks				wool
04:22 VanessaE      drippingwater	   moreores				worldedit
04:22 VanessaE      fireplace	   nature				xdoors
04:22 VanessaE      is that enough? ;-)
04:22 VanessaE      (those of mine in that list are the latest)
04:22 cornernote    there are some there i never seen, but i have ones that arent there too
04:23 VanessaE      (Jeija's was as of a couple days ago, not sure about the others)
04:23 cornernote    awesome! thanks VanessaE
04:23 VanessaE      no prob :-)
04:23 VanessaE      OH
04:23 VanessaE      get the latest minetest git master
04:23 VanessaE      the node limitation has been partially fixed.
04:23 cornernote    has darkrose mod applied ?
04:23 VanessaE      all of the above can be installed without crashing.
04:24 cornernote    i compiled hers
04:24 VanessaE      the full 16-bit node ID bit is not in yet though
04:24 VanessaE      c55 is doing some regression testing of it
04:24 cornernote    im not recompiling unless i have to
04:24 cornernote    windows
04:24 cornernote    sux
04:24 cornernote    for comiling =)
04:24 cornernote    compiling too
04:25 cornernote    thats what i said
04:25 cornernote    i thought i typed it wrong
04:25 cornernote    lol
04:25 VanessaE      heh
04:25 cornernote    what about xfences ?
04:25 VanessaE      didn't sfan post some up-to-date builds?>
04:25 VanessaE      I don't like xfences ;-/
04:26 VanessaE      (the way they're drawn feels a little....strange)
04:26 VanessaE      which reminds me, where the hell is thexyz anyway?
04:28 VanessaE      maybe it's just the lack of proper dynamic lighting on nodebox stuff
04:28 VanessaE      they look....flat
04:31 cornernote    3dforniture ?
04:31 VanessaE      that's a good one to add
04:31 VanessaE      I like the 3d torches
04:32 VanessaE      you might, by the way, want to filter out the mod:__builtin entry ;-)
04:33 cornernote    why ?
04:33 cornernote    it has stuff in it
04:34 VanessaE      'cuz the only things being listed are air and ignore :-)
04:34 VanessaE      at least, in the "Items" section.
04:34 cornernote    maybe a craft makes air?  =)
04:34 VanessaE      haha
04:34 cornernote    maybe you are right
04:35 cornernote    but i'll leave it for now
04:35 cornernote    its an easy tweak if the server admin wants to hide it
04:35 cornernote    and i dont plan on releasing a lot of new versions, it pretty much does what i want it to do
04:35 VanessaE      suggestion:  condense the recipe viewer.
04:35 VanessaE      http://fasthost.com.au/minetest/wiki/craft.php?id=15
04:35 VanessaE      that
04:35 cornernote    i thouhgt about that
04:35 VanessaE      that's way too wide
04:35 cornernote    having item_thumb() instead of item()
04:36 cornernote    then it just shows the image instead of the whole item
04:36 VanessaE      do both
04:36 VanessaE      wait,
04:36 VanessaE      idea
04:36 cornernote    but, we have the whole width, so not a requirement, just makes it look more pretty
04:36 VanessaE      you know how people represent crafts as text?
04:36 cornernote    no, can you give an eg ?
04:36 VanessaE      ok, for a bucket:
04:36 VanessaE      - - -
04:36 VanessaE      S - S
04:37 VanessaE      - S -
04:37 VanessaE      S = Steel
04:37 VanessaE      or say,a furnace:
04:37 VanessaE      C C C
04:37 VanessaE      C - C
04:37 VanessaE      C C C
04:37 VanessaE      C = Cobble of course
04:37 cornernote    yeah, can do that pretty easy
04:37 VanessaE      so,
04:37 VanessaE      do something like this:
04:37 cornernote    then u can copy/paste easily
04:37 VanessaE      [Image] [Image] [Image]
04:37 VanessaE      [Image] [Image] [Image]
04:37 VanessaE      [Image] [Image] [Image]
04:38 VanessaE      X X X
04:38 VanessaE      X X X
04:38 VanessaE      X X X
04:38 VanessaE      where the X's are the abbreviated text version
04:38 VanessaE      with a key under them
04:38 VanessaE      just use the first letter of each node name (or first two if needed) to create the key
04:39 VanessaE      I'd draw a better diagram, but you can code it faster than I can draw it ;-)
04:40 VanessaE      next step is to read each node definition and attempt to actually render cubes from the texture files being references
04:40 VanessaE      referenced.
04:44 * VanessaE    waits patiently for the demo page to be updated with 4000 new nodes/crafts/items ;-)
04:46 VanessaE      morning japa
04:47 Japa_werk     Morning E
04:47 cornernote    i get a deserialize error on darkrose's version with latest moreores or moreblocks
04:47 VanessaE      uh oh
04:47 VanessaE      wait, you sure it's the latest of darkrose's commits?
04:47 cornernote    darkrose-minetest-aec9c7f
04:48 cornernote    probably not the latest
04:48 VanessaE      that's not new enough.
04:48 cornernote    anyway, the game doesnt need to load for me to extract the items =)
04:48 VanessaE      has to be 063489[...]
04:48 cornernote    ok, i'll recompile tonight
04:48 VanessaE      ok
04:51 VanessaE      recommendation:  collapse all the mods, so a click opens that mod's listings
04:51 VanessaE      that way you don't see four million items from coloredwoods, bobblocks, blox, etc. before getting to the default stuff :-)
04:54 cornernote    yeah, i was going to do that too, but then CRTL+F wont work as well .. also need a "show all" type thing
04:54 VanessaE      good idea
04:54 cornernote    can you post these onto the forum?  that way i'll add them next time im playing with it
04:54 VanessaE      ok
04:54 cornernote    thanks
04:59 VanessaE      done.
05:05 VanessaE      I just realized, I don't have unifiedbricks installed.
05:05 * VanessaE    grabs it
05:06 VanessaE      by the way,
05:06 VanessaE      oops.  ignore that
05:11 VanessaE      wow,
05:12 VanessaE      5594 registered items and crafts now
05:12 VanessaE      and the game takes almost a full minute to start, because of the extrude-for-wield operation done on every texture file
05:29 cornernote    every mod - http://fasthost.com.au/minetest/wiki/items.php
05:31 cornernote    wow, thats a lot of things =)
05:34 cornernote    unified brocks seems to be missing some items
05:34 cornernote    bricks =)
05:34 VanessaE      oh?
05:34 cornernote    http://fasthost.com.au/minetest/wiki/craft.php?id=2414
05:35 cornernote    missing unifiedbricks:claylightgrey
05:35 VanessaE      ah, so I see - missing an underscore there
05:35 VanessaE      I better check my gentextures script
05:35 cornernote    many like that, see this page - http://fasthost.com.au/minetest/wiki/crafts.php
05:35 cornernote    all the dyes are fine
05:36 VanessaE      hrm
05:36 VanessaE      and my gentextures script is good, too.
05:36 cornernote    there is a bug in my script
05:37 cornernote    if the node name was:  "node mod:the_name"  (eg, starts with "node ") then it breaks
05:37 cornernote    GRR!
05:40 VanessaE      also,
05:40 VanessaE      "flowing sand" is being rendered with water as the texture :-)
05:46 VanessaE      hm, I need to fix my node descriptions for mahogany nightstands
05:51 VanessaE      ok, bedtime for me, I'll fix that ^^ later.
05:51 VanessaE      hi/bye sfan5.
05:52 sfan5         lol its morning for me
07:14 cornernote    darkrose, your build works will all the mods in my wiki demo
07:15 darkrose      celeron's latest git (but not release) is now in sync with mine
07:16 cornernote    sweet!
08:00 cornernote    VanessaE, what does the add more ores tool do ?
08:15 brobostigon   good morning everyone.
08:33 jordach       morning all
08:35 brobostigon   morning jordach
08:35 jordach       morning bro
08:36 brobostigon   <tab>
08:40 sfan5         hi Calinou
08:40 Calinou       hi
08:42 jordach       sup Calinou
08:45 * jordach     is working on a pipes mod
08:47 * VanessaE    wanders back in
08:47 Calinou       http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=33097#p33097
08:47 Calinou       paranoia evolved
08:47 VanessaE      insomnia sucks :-(
08:48 Calinou       "Your server isn't behaving like the c55 0.4 one." < inb4 "ITS LIKE GOOGLE'S"
08:48 Calinou       lol @ his pgp key, too.
08:48 Calinou       "Where is your source code?" < LGPL FTW
08:49 GTRsdk        Question... If I have a 30 Mbit/s connection, 2 Xeon cores, and about 256 MB RAM, about how many players could I host?
08:49 jordach       a lot
08:50 jordach       (dont forget about swap file too)
08:52 GTRsdk        So then is there a calculation one could do to find about how many players one could host with a Minetest server specified specs?
08:53 jordach       my pc can handle up to around 10 players fine
08:53 jordach       (using the client as a server)
08:55 GTRsdk        What are the specs of your pc?
08:56 jordach       1gb of ram
08:56 jordach       pentium d @ 3.8 ghz
08:56 jordach       (2cpu cores + hyperthreading)
08:57 jordach       512mb agp card
08:57 jordach       160 7700rpm sata MK1 drive
08:57 jordach       (160gb)
08:59 GTRsdk        so the CPU would be the limiting factor?
08:59 * VanessaE    groans... someone please tell my sore back to shut the fuck up :-(
08:59 * jordach     shouts at VanessaE's back
09:01 VanessaE      yay! redcrab fixed his server :-)
09:07 jordach       ikr
09:07 jordach       but
09:07 jordach       it could still crash
09:08 VanessaE      maybe - interesting thing is when I signed on and got back to work (just for a few mins, so I feel like I made some progress), about a dozen or so gravel nodes had turned into entities, but were still buried inside more gravel, along with the offending torch
09:08 jordach       could have been you timber mod vanessa
09:08 Calinou       upcoming tree type in BlockPlanet: http://i.imgur.com/yA59i.png
09:08 Calinou       <GTRsdk> Question... If I have a 30 Mbit/s connection, 2 Xeon cores, and about 256 MB RAM, about how many players could I host?
09:08 Calinou       why only 256MB ram
09:08 VanessaE      impossible - I don't have a mese axe.
09:09 jordach       <Calinou> upcoming tree type in BlockPlanet: http://i.imgur.com/yA59i.png YOU ADVITISED BLOCKPLANET?
09:09 VanessaE      inb4 "RAM is cheap"
09:09 Calinou       RAM is cheap
09:09 Calinou       sheeeeeep.
09:09 jordach       Calinou, LIAR
09:10 GTRsdk        Calinou: I only have 768 MB RAM on the VPS, and most of it is already used
09:10 jordach       GTRsdk, then remove some apps
09:10 VanessaE      GTRsdk: swap file.  the server will decide how much RAM it actually needs to dedicate to the game vs other stuff
09:11 jordach       <GTRsdk> Question... If I have a 30 Mbit/s connection, 2 Xeon cores, and about 256 MB RAM, about how many players could I host?
09:11 jordach       <jordach> a lot
09:11 jordach       <jordach> (dont forget about swap file too)
09:11 VanessaE      gah, too tired
09:11 jordach       i said this 10 mins ago
09:11 VanessaE      I shoulda seen that
09:11 VanessaE      I blame my sore back :-)
09:11 GTRsdk        I'd have to ask my VPS provider if he could add more swap then... (I use OpenVZ)
09:12 VanessaE      you don't have root on your own VPS?
09:12 GTRsdk        I do, but swapon/swapoff doesn't work with OpenVZ
09:12 VanessaE      ah
09:13 GTRsdk        I have 512 MB swap, (half used) so would that work for like 20 players?
09:14 jordach       VanessaE, awesome pipe cap http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-230712-101342.php
09:30 VanessaE      ...
09:42 VanessaE      morning jin
09:45 jin_xi        morning
09:46 VanessaE      https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/commit/7fd0d66b4fdd00cad3a536c82239a6eea4018088#commitcomment-1615629
09:46 VanessaE      sfan5's little fix to the large-number-of-objects issue :-)
09:48 jordach       ikr
09:51 jin_xi        yeah, i know. grepped (acked) the sources a while ago. but i think its a combination of issues
09:51 jin_xi        there's a reason for this limit, as it really kills the framerate (my mod does)
09:52 jin_xi        problem is also with entity visual style. i use "cube" atm, which is overkill
09:52 VanessaE      well sure, but if you're seeing 40 nodes out in every direction by default, with a 90 degree viewing angle, that's some 800 nodes
09:52 jin_xi        but "upright_sprite" always has the same direction
09:52 VanessaE      I wouldn't think another max 300 would actually do much damage if they're not visible
09:52 jin_xi        also its not nodes or nodeboxes, its entities
09:52 VanessaE      yeah I know
09:53 VanessaE      (now :-)  )
09:53 VanessaE      I tend to forget that's how you did it
09:53 jin_xi        nodes are handled efficiently in huge numbers, as they are quite static. I'd need a static entity
09:53 VanessaE      maybe it would be pruden.....wait a sec...
09:53 VanessaE      I just remembered.
09:54 VanessaE      someone, I forget who or what mod this occurred in, proved that minetest can also load JPEG data as long as the extension is PNG
09:54 VanessaE      (they encoded images to JPG and renamed them to PNG without realizing)
09:54 VanessaE      maybe the same is true for easier formats like XPM or so?
09:55 VanessaE      or ascii TIF
09:55 VanessaE      if so, creating those images in realtime might be doable after all, without entities
09:56 jin_xi        idk have not looked into this, but that sure would be a way
09:57 jin_xi        xpm would be cool for this type of pixel art.
09:57 VanessaE      exACTly
09:57 VanessaE      provided the windows client can also view such images
09:58 jordach       VanessaE, that was me
09:58 jordach       with the jpg error
09:58 VanessaE      I was thinking of exploiting this to shrink my photorealistic texture pack down to something small
09:58 VanessaE      jordach: but the images worked, no?
09:58 jordach       VanessaE, THIS WONT WORK ON AGP OR PCI-E V1/2.0 VIDEO CARDS
09:58 jordach       only onboards work
09:58 VanessaE      correctipon:
09:59 jordach       mine states: cannot load tv_screen_6.png
09:59 VanessaE      I bet it's using the car'd texture compression then
09:59 VanessaE      card's
09:59 VanessaE      not all video cards and drivers can do that
09:59 VanessaE      those that can usually see a small performance boost
09:59 VanessaE      in addition to the smaller file sizes/RAM requirement
10:00 VanessaE      and JPEG is certainly a popular enough format,
10:00 VanessaE      texture compression isn't just one codec, it's dozens apparently
10:00 jordach       exactly
10:01 jordach       thats why mine aint gonna work anytime soon
10:01 VanessaE      I might make a version of the pack available in JPG just to see how it works out :-)
10:02 Kray          what the fuck are you planning?
10:02 VanessaE      Kray: me?  nothing as yet.
10:02 jordach       Kray, GET BACK TO EVE ONLINE
10:02 VanessaE      jin_xi: well, scratch that idea huh?
10:03 Kray          jordach: all the time playing
10:03 jordach       now
10:03 jordach       kray, get 0.4.1 server up
10:03 VanessaE      no, wait
10:03 jordach       its two days now
10:03 VanessaE      get 0.4.x-latest-git server up
10:04 VanessaE      the 16 bit node ID change went in
10:04 VanessaE      servers must be that version or higher for a client of that version to connect
10:04 VanessaE      it's a change c55 put through after 0.4.1 was released.
10:05 jordach       hmm
10:05 * jordach     thinks 0.4.2 is coming soon
10:06 VanessaE      I hope not
10:07 VanessaE      thise 16-bit node IDs break network compat with 0.4.1 and prior servers
10:07 VanessaE      (I don't recall whether an 0.4.1 or older client can be used on a latest-git server though)
10:07 VanessaE      darkrose: you here?  care to comment? :-)
10:08 darkrose      >.>
10:08 VanessaE      w00t
10:08 Calinou       <VanessaE> the 16 bit node ID change went in
10:08 Calinou       > what does it do?
10:08 Calinou       please host a 0.4.1 server, not a git
10:08 Calinou       don't restrict your server to linuxians :c
10:08 Calinou       linuxians know how to pull stable and not unstable, too
10:08 darkrose      increases maximum item count from 2k to 64k
10:08 Calinou       cool :p
10:09 Calinou       increases map size a lot, no?
10:09 VanessaE      Calinou: it increases the number of nodes one can define.
10:09 VanessaE      at present, from just before that commit, it's 2048+126.  Now, it's 65534.
10:09 VanessaE      (a
10:09 VanessaE      ('air' and 'ignore' are reserved)
10:09 darkrose      VanessaE: I don't have a 0.4.1 client to test with
10:09 VanessaE      darkrose: I do.
10:10 Calinou       +126?
10:10 VanessaE      Calinou: something to do with really old maps I think
10:10 Calinou       also, doesn't that mean increased network bandwidth usage?
10:10 VanessaE      eh, whoop-de-do :-)
10:27 Kray          https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=51142 AUR package now 0.4.1
10:28 VanessaE      Calinou: and besides, I think not.
10:29 VanessaE      if I understand it correctly, the extension of the node ID comes in the form of re-purposing a couple of bytes that are\ already part of the protocol or something
10:29 VanessaE      (or rather, several bits)
10:30 VanessaE      hrm, maybe not
10:30 VanessaE      the changes in the source do suggest an added byte
10:30 darkrose      it increases by one octet per node - compression
10:31 VanessaE      oh well, it's not like that's gonna push the game into bittorrent/"ridiculous bandwidth needs" territory :-)
10:34 Calinou       <Kray> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=51142 AUR package now 0.4.1
10:34 Calinou       lolaur
10:34 Calinou       VanessaE, say "minecraft territory" :P
10:35 jordach       VanessaE, bittorrent only uses little if its setup right
10:35 VanessaE      ew, byte your tongue
10:35 jordach       (me torrents linux enough to know)
10:35 VanessaE      jordach: if you're using using "a little" with a torrent, you're doing it wrong :-)
10:35 VanessaE      the whole purpose of a torrent is to flood one's pipe while in use :-)
10:35 jordach       i set bandwitth limits
10:35 VanessaE      I set upload limits, but download is wide open
10:36 jordach       ^ same
10:36 jordach       unlimited 8mb is awesome
10:36 * Calinou     never torrents
10:36 Calinou       anyway: upload zero FTW
10:36 VanessaE      if you don't throttle your upstream just a little, you can't get packets out fast enough to keep the downlink populated for other apps.
10:36 jordach       ikr
10:56 jordach       wth
10:58 jordach       my mouse keeps "going far left in gimp.
11:05 VanessaE      get 2.8
11:05 VanessaE      that's a weird interaction between 2.6 and something in ubuntu and a few others
11:06 VanessaE      something to do with pointer tracking on touchpads
11:06 VanessaE      why it affects mice, I have no idea
11:06 VanessaE      but it used to piss me off to no end
11:13 VanessaE      vicscandl: you know, you *can* just sign on directly.  what you're doing gives away the IP address you're trying to hide :-)
11:24 jordach       vicscandl, stop doing these messages
11:25 jordach       they are kinda spammy
11:26 VanessaE      I don't recall the last time I saw him speak
11:26 VanessaE      is he real or a bot?
11:27 jordach       idk
11:27 jordach       seems like so
11:32 jordach       with my metals mod
11:32 jordach       you can use a furnace plus those items to get your iron ingots back
11:33 jordach       a metal railing
11:33 jordach       all sorts
11:34 VanessaE      smart
11:35 VanessaE      I should implement something like that for homedecor for the brass and wrought iron objects
11:35 jordach       because steel and iron are re-cycleable
11:35 VanessaE      brass -> brass ingots, wrought iron -> steel ingots
11:36 jordach       yep
11:36 jordach       thats what i was thinking
11:36 jordach       for how many you make with them, is how many you get back
11:37 VanessaE      no
11:37 VanessaE      there should be some waste
11:37 VanessaE      but only very little
11:37 jordach       iron ingots are expensive
11:37 VanessaE      if it takes 6 ingots or lumps to make something, give back 5.
11:37 jordach       no
11:37 jordach       because if you made things like that
11:37 jordach       we would run out
11:37 jordach       metal recycling in real life returns all of the metal
11:37 VanessaE      it's times like this that partial/fractional items would be useful
11:38 VanessaE      no, it doesn't.  there's always a small amount of waste
11:38 * jordach     is also thinking about adding aluminium to metal making
11:38 VanessaE      though "practically all" would be accurate
11:38 VanessaE      fork moreores and add aluminum and zinc :-)
11:39 VanessaE      (so I can make brass from the right fucking materials for a change :-) )
11:39 jordach       alright
11:39 jordach       gonna fork moreores
11:39 jordach       (and remove all the crap
11:40 VanessaE      crap?
11:40 VanessaE      if you fork, btw, fork from marktraceur's rewrite
11:40 VanessaE      his code is apparently a lot cleaner
11:40 jordach       oh shit
11:40 jordach       addtool
11:40 jordach       POS
11:41 jordach       ITS UNWORKABLE
11:41 VanessaE      heh
11:41 jordach       fuck that
11:41 jordach       ill make it myself
11:41 VanessaE      this from the same guy who couldn't figure out how to use the facedir parameter ;-)
11:41 jordach       no.
11:41 jordach       wrong.
11:41 jordach       the tile system is pansy
11:41 VanessaE      sorry, you're not gonna live that one down for a while ;-)
11:42 jordach       VanessaE, i can speak bad of yopur mods
11:42 jordach       s/yopur/your
11:43 VanessaE      there's no need, I know my code sucks :-)
11:43 VanessaE      but it WORKS ;-)
11:44 jordach       VanessaE, id rather have one size fits all than several hundred methods that want a certain bit
11:44 jordach       (which might not even exist)
11:44 jordach       Fixer_, quit that
11:46 VanessaE      jordach: the problem with that philosophy...well...here:
11:46 VanessaE      http://xkcd.com/927/
11:46 VanessaE      that.
11:46 VanessaE      :-)
11:49 jordach       VanessaE, is crap half the time
11:49 jordach       i meant to add lua
11:49 jordach       lua is crap
11:49 jordach       there
11:49 jordach       its like your mother in law, you have to deal with it
11:49 jordach       no matter how much you hate that bitch
11:49 VanessaE      I seem to have no problems with it, save for FUCKING COMMAS :-)
11:49 jordach       yes
11:49 jordach       FUCKING COMMAS
11:49 jordach       finally
11:50 VanessaE      and fwiw, my mother in law died 17 years ago
11:50 jordach       oh
11:50 VanessaE      (and my own mother, 12 years ago)
11:50 jordach       oh
11:50 VanessaE      Open Mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.
11:50 VanessaE      :-)
11:50 jordach       :D
11:53 jordach       ahh corregated metal
11:54 VanessaE      are you using code from mauvebic's metals?
11:54 jordach       no
11:54 jordach       hand coded
11:54 VanessaE      oh ok
11:54 jordach       and thats what i prefer
11:54 VanessaE      well he's done some of that stuff, might be useful to you
11:54 jordach       not really
11:54 jordach       i have my own ideas and textures
11:54 VanessaE      fair enough :-)
11:56 jordach       ok
11:59 jordach       o hai Calinou
11:59 VanessaE      wb Calinou
12:00 darkrose      slightly better pig mob: http://stuff.ltmnet.com/images/mt/pig.png
12:00 VanessaE      not bad
12:00 VanessaE      implemented as nodeboxes?
12:01 darkrose      yeah
12:01 darkrose      little shits are hard to catch though, they get panicy when you start hitting them
12:02 VanessaE      heh
12:02 VanessaE      how do they move?
12:02 darkrose      ugly jumping between nodes at the moment
12:03 VanessaE      can noceboxes be used in an entity?
12:03 VanessaE      nodeboxes*
12:03 VanessaE      (I'm totally unsure how those work)
12:03 darkrose      not that I'm aware of
12:03 darkrose      https://github.com/darkrose/minetest_mods <-- it's in there if you wanna play
12:03 VanessaE      oh.. too bad :-/
12:03 jin_xi        entities can be drawn as sprite, upright sprite and cube
12:05 * VanessaE    looks...
12:08 jordach       http://xkcd.com/949/ lol
12:08 VanessaE      darkrose: are there supposed to be white dots on the pigs' backsides?
12:08 Calinou       <darkrose> slightly better pig mob: http://stuff.ltmnet.com/images/mt/pig.png
12:09 Calinou       lol, I often mix up darkrose and celeron55
12:09 Calinou       their names are in bright green in xchat
12:09 Calinou       LOL pig
12:09 Calinou       looks crappy :p
12:09 Calinou       more like a pink sheep
12:09 darkrose      VanessaE: just pushed the update that fixes that
12:09 Calinou       a pink sheep of an opensourcist
12:09 darkrose      had it committed but not pushed
12:09 Calinou       NETSPLIT PARTY
12:09 VanessaE      at least she accomplished this much
12:10 Calinou       darkrose, is your mob system fully in lua? or does it have some C++ parts for the AI?
12:10 darkrose      all in lua at the moment
12:11 darkrose      it's just an experiment to see what is needed
12:11 VanessaE      what if you used several entities together?
12:11 VanessaE      you know, like one for the body, another couple for each leg, etc
12:11 VanessaE      then you could move them around smoothly
12:11 jin_xi        they can only be cubes
12:11 Calinou       <VanessaE> you know, like one for the body, another couple for each leg, etc
12:11 Calinou       LAAAAG
12:11 Calinou       :p
12:12 VanessaE      cubes -> rectangles, just stack them up
12:12 Calinou       oh, your "mob" is a NODE?
12:12 Calinou       seriously
12:12 Calinou       opensourcist level 99
12:12 jin_xi        entity voxel mobs
12:12 VanessaE      jin_xi: exactly
12:12 VanessaE      but using as few as possoble
12:12 VanessaE      possible
12:13 VanessaE      like 12 or so per mob
12:13 VanessaE      maybe 16, depending on the thickness of the legs
12:13 jin_xi        anyone remember wobbly cactus from smb2
12:13 Calinou       one mob needs to be ONE entity. period
12:13 jin_xi        that would be a good candidate
12:14 Calinou       else, c55 will never add that
12:14 Calinou       jin_xi, opensourcist level 500
12:14 VanessaE      Calinou: I'm talking about stuff that's doable as a lua mod
12:14 VanessaE      not stuff that would be implemented as an upstream change
12:14 * darkrose    just wanted to see if nodeboxes were a viable option for 3d mobs
12:14 Calinou       yes; but the whole AI part needs to be in C++, if someone ever wants their mob system to be included
12:14 Calinou       that's the only way to have mobs with decent performance
12:15 VanessaE      never played SMB2, just 1 and the Wii version.
12:15 Calinou       darkrose, now go code nodeboxes for entities :p
12:15 VanessaE      Calinou: not according to c55.
12:15 * jordach     wants you lot to shut up
12:15 * Calinou     will not shut up
12:15 * jordach     will leave otherwise
12:15 Calinou       VanessaE, does he want a slow lua AI? O_o
12:15 VanessaE      he's looked into animals, and he just dodn't like the complexity of the code, otherwise he wasn't too unhappy with the idea
12:15 VanessaE      didn't(
12:15 jordach       otherwise "he"
12:16 jordach       did you mean: she?
12:16 VanessaE      no, I meant 'he', as in c55.
12:16 jordach       ah
12:16 jordach       lol
12:17 VanessaE      damn it now I lost my train of thought
12:17 jin_xi        so many things to try
12:18 VanessaE      oh, there we go.   66 seconds to start minetest now, with 512px textures and 35 mods that define a total of 5601 items/nodes/crafts
12:19 VanessaE      whew.
12:19 * VanessaE    likes to push things to the limit :-)
12:19 * jin_xi      gonna try make cactus mob
12:19 VanessaE      THAT is why I say the extrude function needs to be on-demand.
12:20 VanessaE      jin_xi: try to make it work properly with my photorealistic cactus texture :-)
12:20 jin_xi        try to make it work first...
12:21 VanessaE      right
12:21 VanessaE      I'm just lazy, don't want to have to revise the cactus texture - it was a bitch to get right the first time :-)
12:23 Calinou       minecraft 12w30b has "Snooper settings", lol
12:24 Calinou       "We want to collect information about your machine to help improve Minecraft by knowing what we can support and where the biggest problems are. All of this information is anonymous and viewable below. We promise we won't do anything bad with this data, but if you want to opt out feel free to turn it off."
12:25 VanessaE      heh
12:25 * Calinou     is using a 64x pack
12:25 Calinou       "texpack_resolution" "16"
12:25 Calinou       FAIL
12:25 VanessaE      fancy way of saying 'profiling' :-)
12:25 Calinou       "vsync_enabled" false
12:25 Calinou       I forced it in nvidia control panel :p
12:25 Calinou       FAIL #2
12:26 * jordach     high fives Calinou for using nVidia
12:26 Calinou       disabled it anyway
12:28 Calinou       LOL, lava just under ice.
12:29 VanessaE      hah
12:31 jin_xi        or an evil block mod, to keep it simple
12:32 jin_xi        *mob
12:32 VanessaE      heh
12:49 jordach       Fixer_, please stop using /nick
13:04 VanessaE      Fixer: fix your damn IRC client :-)
13:07 Fixer_        it is not even IRC, it is jabber-irc gate
13:08 VanessaE      bbl
13:09 cornernote    in unifiedbricks, it seems there is no way to make the colored clay
13:09 cornernote    i see all the recipied to make things once you have the clay
13:32 cornernote    i would like to use the 3d looking inventory image for the wiki
13:32 cornernote    do you think i can save it as a graphic via LUA ?
13:32 jordach       0x81980085
13:34 jordach       Calinou, http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=33252#p33252 SPAM
13:36 Calinou       deleted
13:37 jordach       :)
13:37 jordach       OMFG
13:37 jordach       celeron in the forums
13:53 cosarara97    hi!
13:54 jordach       sup
13:54 cosarara97    I'm trying to add something to the minetest engine and can't get it to work
13:54 FreeFull      What are you trying to add?
13:54 cosarara97    A sniper rifle
13:55 cosarara97    I'm stuck getting the eyehole to show
13:55 cosarara97    But I made it zoom
13:55 cosarara97    This is what doesn't work: http://pastebin.com/bUcQ1qka
13:59 cosarara97    Anyone (with a better level of C++ than mine) can help me?
14:09 jin_xi        argh, moving mobs are hard
14:12 jin_xi        keycode.cpp:298: KeyPress::KeyPress(const irr::SEvent::SKeyInput&): Assertion 'written >= 0 && "unexpected multibyte character"' failed. also this, alot
14:16 darkrose      http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
14:28 jin_xi        alot zea lots
14:55 jin_xi        so, yeah, i guess that would work, using an entity for a mob which holds more entities for its body
15:28 jordach       cool
15:31 jordach       afternoon
15:31 jordach       sup sfan5
15:38 alpha_one_x86 Hello, it's possible to have rss to the site?
15:59 jordach       alpha_one_x86, rss to where exactly
15:59 alpha_one_x86 the home
16:00 jordach       probably impossible
16:00 jordach       celeron updates the html directly, from what i see
16:06 alpha_one_x86 just rss of blog blog can be good
16:09 alpha_one_x86 I have noted too free during few seconds under linux, mainly when I look a new zone (chunk loading)
16:09 jordach       ?
16:09 jordach       hold on brb
16:10 alpha_one_x86 jordach: I have understand nothing
16:12 jordach       alpha_one_x86, you might be experiencing some bug, that might be obscure
16:14 alpha_one_x86 But it's know bug? It's the unique blocking to play to minetest
16:14 jordach       hm?
16:15 jordach       can you move outside of the UN-loaded chunk
16:18 alpha_one_x86 no, because all the game freeze, some time 15s...
16:19 jordach       be more specific, which OS are you running?
16:22 jordach       VanessaE, can i have some help?
16:27 alpha_one_x86 linux
16:27 alpha_one_x86 but same under windows
16:28 jordach       alpha_one_x86, linux IS THE KERNEL, i want to know the distribution
16:28 alpha_one_x86 gentoo amd64
16:28 jordach       self compiled?
16:28 alpha_one_x86 I'm at 60fps all the time, d3d or openGl
16:29 alpha_one_x86 but down to 0 during the freeze
16:29 alpha_one_x86 under wine, (same self compiled)
16:30 jordach       alpha_one_x86, compile it your self
16:30 jordach       using mingw
16:31 alpha_one_x86 I have the same bug under windows, and all my other game work, I have tested on multiple hardware
16:39 * jin_xi      gives up
16:41 jordach       jin_xi, http://pastebin.com/1WrZ9v5T any clues?
16:42 * jin_xi      checks
16:43 jordach       Calinou, can we please ban madchicken? my spam senses are tingling.
16:43 jin_xi        what is the problem you're having with it?
16:43 jin_xi        your code i mean
16:43 Calinou       madchicken is spammy, yes
16:43 jordach       register_craft returns an error
16:44 Calinou       haven't been reading what he says lately
16:44 Calinou       he does not seem to flame other users, or "spam"
16:44 Calinou       <alpha_one_x86> I'm at 60fps all the time, d3d or openGl
16:44 jordach       his damn client spam
16:44 Calinou       tell me your secret
16:44 Calinou       how do you use direct3d on linux, natively
16:44 jordach       jin_xi, 17:29:40: ERROR[main]: Error loading mod "metals": LuaError: Invalid crafting recipe (output="metals:half_ingot 2")
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: ERROR[main]: stack traceback:
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: ERROR[main]: 	[C]: in function 'register_craft'
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: ERROR[main]: 	...esktop/041/bin/../games/minimal/mods/metals/init.lua:212: in main chunk
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: ERROR[main]: Server: Failed to load and run /home/jordan/Desktop/041/bin/../games/minimal/mods/metals/init.lua
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: INFO[main]: BanManager: saving to /home/jordan/Desktop/041/bin/../worlds/a/ipban.txt
16:44 jordach       17:29:40: ERROR[main]: ModError: Failed to load and run /home/jordan/Desktop/041/bin/../games/minimal/mods/metals/init.lua
16:44 Calinou       jordach, "invalid crafting recipe"
16:44 Calinou       sums it up. fix it :p
16:44 jordach       Calinou, its fine with OTHER MODS
16:45 jordach       why NOT mine
16:45 Calinou       did you add any invisible characters by mistake?
16:45 Calinou       (yes, there are invisible characters out there)
16:45 jordach       nope.
16:45 jordach       http://pastebin.com/1WrZ9v5T
16:45 jordach       read through
16:46 jordach       or try the mod: http://ompldr.org/vZXVhNw/metalsmk2.zip
16:47 Calinou       -_-
16:47 Calinou       shapeless is broken
16:47 Calinou       plus, you don't have to use it here
16:48 Calinou       if your recipe uses 4 items in a "square"/1 item only, it is pointless
16:48 Calinou       plus it doesn't work
16:48 jordach       Calinou, ?
16:48 VanessaE      since when are shapeless recipes broken?
16:48 Calinou       and for the full steel ingot craft, add 2 crafting recipes: one where the items are "stacked" horizontally, one vertically
16:48 VanessaE      I use them all over the place and they work fine
16:48 Calinou       VanessaE, they never worked for me
16:48 * VanessaE    wanders in for a minute
16:48 jordach       VanessaE, defuse please: http://ompldr.org/vZXVhNw/metalsmk2.zip
16:48 Calinou       this is why moreores' bronze recipe is not shapelessw
16:48 Calinou       -w
16:49 VanessaE      Calinou: look at unifieddyes, it's based on that.
16:49 VanessaE      jordach: no time right now, I'm leaving for an appointment in 10 minutes
16:49 jordach       im epic today
16:49 VanessaE      (probably less)
16:49 jordach       i avoided a minetest-dev ban
16:49 jordach       <jordach> well, thinking about what you just said: buildable_to = true does this i think?
16:49 jordach       <celeron55> ...NO.
16:49 jordach       <celeron55> as if i would be doing anything like this if the functionality existed
16:49 jordach       <celeron55> i feel 90% desire to kick you becaue of that; anyone who knows anything about minetest can directly say it's not what this is about
16:49 jordach       <celeron55> +s
16:49 jordach       and im there now
16:50 jordach       and i avoided his kick, woot
16:50 jordach       Calinou, http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=33279#p33279 NOTHER FUCKING ALWAYS CRAFT POST >:(
16:51 Calinou       <jordach> <celeron55> i feel 90% desire to kick you becaue of that; anyone who knows anything about minetest can directly say it's not what this is about
16:51 * Calinou     invites the random minetest player to #minetest-dev
16:51 Calinou       suddenly: banlist overflow
16:51 jordach       well
16:51 jordach       buildable_to = true is what he wanted
16:51 jordach       and it already exists, just in another form
16:51 NakedFury     what does that do?
16:52 jordach       replace a node with a another node without digging it first
16:52 VanessaE      jordach: pastebin the code you wanted me to look at.
16:53 jordach       already did http://pastebin.com/1WrZ9v5T
16:54 VanessaE      problem is simple:
16:54 VanessaE      get rid of the braces around your recipe items.
16:54 VanessaE      minetest.register_craft({
16:54 VanessaE      output = 'default:steel_ingot',
16:54 VanessaE      type = "shapeless",
16:54 VanessaE      recipe = {
16:54 VanessaE      {'metals:half_ingot', 'metals:half_ingot'},
16:54 VanessaE      }
16:54 VanessaE      })
16:54 VanessaE      get rid of the braces around the two 'half ingot' items.
16:55 VanessaE      and the same for all over shapeless recipes
16:55 VanessaE      and for readability, put one recipe ingredient per line in these kind.
16:55 VanessaE      so like this:
16:55 VanessaE      minetest.register_craft({
16:55 VanessaE      output = 'default:steel_ingot',
16:55 VanessaE      type = "shapeless",
16:55 VanessaE      recipe = {
16:55 VanessaE      'metals:half_ingot',
16:55 VanessaE      'metals:half_ingot'
16:55 VanessaE      }
16:55 VanessaE      })
16:56 jordach       still bugged
16:56 VanessaE      well fix the rest too :-)
16:56 NakedFury     what is that type? new?
16:56 VanessaE      it's not new, jordach is just using it wrong as usual ;-)
16:56 jordach       :(
16:56 VanessaE      anyway, that's the basis of the problrem
16:56 jordach       VanessaE, dont make me go pvp
16:56 VanessaE      problem*
16:56 VanessaE      I gotta run.
16:56 VanessaE      bbl
16:56 jordach       kay
16:57 NakedFury     what does shapeless do?
16:57 jordach       allows any shape for crafting
16:59 jordach       Calinou, not even sfan5 can find the bug
17:13 alpha_one_x86 wine translate d3d to openGL, or galium support too d3d under linux
17:13 alpha_one_x86 But the most important it's that's I have same bug under windows
17:16 jordach       then stop using d3d
17:16 jordach       problem solved
17:17 alpha_one_x86 ??? -> same problem with openGl or software render, what I do?
17:18 Calinou       lolwine
17:18 Calinou       lol software render
17:18 Calinou       alpha_one_x86, get real drivers and/or GPU
17:18 Calinou       period
17:19 jordach       Calinou, proprietary drivers FTW
17:21 alpha_one_x86 I have/wish only the open sources drivers, witch have any problem with minecraft, lineage, directX 9 (and few modern game), DS2, ...
17:22 alpha_one_x86 profiling can help?
17:52 vicscandl     Calinou: i'd say get a real OS, not real drivers... but i'm anti-redmond...
17:52 Calinou       lol
17:53 vicscandl     <-- jaded, hard
17:53 * vicscandl   ponders his stack of site launch tickets vs. procrastinating more...
18:19 * Calinou     moved some topics in mod releases
18:19 * Calinou     is about to have 900 posts
18:19 Calinou       over 900
18:55 jordach       huh
18:55 jordach       cool
18:55 jordach       i found an old jachoo world sitting around: https://github.com/saschakb/minetest-world#readme
19:04 jordach       did you know?
19:04 jordach       my inspiration for pixel art came from here http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2492#p2492
19:45 jordach       sup VanessaE
19:45 VanessaE      hey
19:47 VanessaE      did you figure out your recipe issue?
19:47 jordach       no. gave up.
19:48 VanessaE      oh.  too bad :-/
20:04 VanessaE      jordach: you didn't do what I said :-)
20:04 jordach       i did
20:04 jordach       same problem
20:04 VanessaE      224.                {'metals:half_ingot', 'metals:half_ingot'},
20:04 VanessaE      no you didn't. :-)
20:04 VanessaE      ditch the {braces}.
20:04 SmugLeaf      jordach: suck less dick
20:04 SmugLeaf      and listen
20:05 VanessaE      same for line 216 also.
20:09 vicscandl     SmugLeaf: lol
20:10 jordach       i DID REMOVE THEM
20:10 jordach       SAME BUG
20:10 jordach       SmugLeaf, ircops?
20:10 VanessaE      if you removed them, why were they still in the paste? ;-)
20:10 jordach       its the OLD paste
20:11 VanessaE      well then show us the current one, duh :-)
20:11 jordach       VanessaE, ill probably fix it later
20:11 jordach       (because i want to re-code it)
20:11 * vicscandl   prefers the old-school library paste to the crap jordach is eating...
20:11 * VanessaE    waits.
20:11 jordach       vicscandl, :(
20:11 VanessaE      you asked for help and then posted an outdated paste for people to fix
20:11 VanessaE      FAIL.
20:11 jordach       VanessaE, im lazy
20:12 vicscandl     lazy is never an excuse for quality code.
20:12 jordach       and the face that my xbox is greater then metals right now
20:12 VanessaE      oh I see, so some closed-source microsoft shit versus minetest..I see
20:12 jordach       VanessaE, no. IT HACKED
20:12 vicscandl     VanessaE: down with reedmond!
20:12 jordach       its a hacked console
20:13 jordach       (might install reactos
20:13 VanessaE      ;)
20:15 jordach       i will fix metals later
20:15 VanessaE      s/fix/ask for help with/
20:15 VanessaE      ;-)
20:15 jordach       tbh VanessaE its 2115 here
20:16 jordach       and my speed pixel art build is done
20:16 VanessaE      yeah yeah, excuses ;-)
20:16 jordach       no really
20:19 * jordach     did not lie http://i.imgur.com/hb4kQ.png
20:21 VanessaE      sorry, that texture pack does not work for pixel art :-)
20:21 VanessaE      and his name is Sonic, not speed.
20:21 jordach       i built it in about 15 mins
20:21 * jordach     is getting faster at building them
20:22 jordach       VanessaE, see that pun there>
20:22 VanessaE      zzz
20:22 jordach       wtf
20:22 jordach       google chrome wont maximise
20:22 jordach       it stays as a normal window
20:56 VanessaE      jordach: noooooo
20:56 jordach       what
20:57 jordach       i had a power surge
20:57 VanessaE      better you should delete wool and panes AND create a new wool-only topic that properly covers and provides download links for 16 and 32 colors wool
20:57 jordach       no.
20:57 VanessaE      some servers still use them after all
20:57 jordach       just no.
20:57 VanessaE      deprecated though they may be :-)
20:58 VanessaE      pweeze?  I don't wanna have to drop support for them from my tex packs
20:58 jordach       i have phased them out i cant keep em life support forever
21:00 jordach       my post is now updated with cotton on its own, or with the needed mods
21:00 jordach       so no more bitching about cotton being a mod/modpack
21:01 jordach       VanessaE, to be frank, panes died the day xpanes came out
21:01 jordach       i keep them for oldies
21:02 * VanessaE    backs up the text of the page just to be safe :-)
21:37 * VanessaE    is bummed :(
21:38 VanessaE      c55 doesn't like unifieddyes - too many colors, too "mechanical".  blah
21:38 jordach       my wool mod ftw
21:39 VanessaE      you could be helping out here you know :-)
21:39 jordach       i am
21:39 jordach       i made my own cotton textures and is testing them
21:39 VanessaE      eh, ok
21:45 VanessaE      afternoon (etc) cisoun
21:45 jordach       VanessaE, evening would be better
21:46 VanessaE      (etc)
21:46 jordach       hes probably midnight by now
21:46 NakedFury     VanessaE> c55 doesn't like unifieddyes - too many colors, too "mechanical".  >what do you mean?
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 16:58] <jordach> replace with this http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2373
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 17:02] <celeron55> i don't like the looks of those at all
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 17:04] <celeron55> also, i don't think i will support the full unified dyes mod
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 17:04] <jordach> my mod supports all of the colours con-currently
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 17:04] <celeron55> yes and that is why it sucks
21:47 VanessaE      [07-23 17:05] <celeron55> it just feels so mechanically made, and there is nothing to help it
21:47 jordach       yeah
21:47 VanessaE      (oops, wrong click just now)
21:47 jordach       by my own textures feel natural
21:48 jordach       strangely
21:48 NakedFury     I still dont understand what the hell he means by mechanical
21:48 jordach       processed
21:48 jordach       MRM
21:48 jordach       (Mechanically recovered meat)
21:48 VanessaE      of course they're processed - there has to be some kind of logical standard against which to work
21:48 NakedFury     too easy to do in game? recipe not natural enough?
21:48 VanessaE      either they're random or they're mathematically derived
21:49 NakedFury     examples, if you are gonna hate on it give an example on how to improve it
21:50 VanessaE      http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2012-07-23#i_2386161
21:50 VanessaE      there's the start of the convo in the channel's logs
21:52 VanessaE      he probably doesn't like it because he didn't write it :-)
21:53 jordach       and it DOES have way too much
21:54 VanessaE      then don't use all of it
21:54 VanessaE      you need LOTS of colors only because you have to make sure that a modder will have just the right color they need for some object
21:55 jordach       thats why i made they dyes by default colours
21:55 VanessaE      I mean dye colors - even if you only want to put in half a dozen colored objects into your mod, they have to be *just right*
21:56 jordach       not always
21:56 jordach       every user of my wool mod knows
21:56 VanessaE      it makes no sense to craft a light sky blue object if the closest color you have is just plain blue
21:56 jordach       there is another mod that has the colour you need
22:35 jordach       night
22:35 jordach       catcha tomorrow
23:17 VanessaE      G*d c55 pisses me off sometimes.
23:21 NakedFury     why? stubborness?
23:21 VanessaE      yeah.
23:22 VanessaE      http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2012-07-23#i_2386161
23:23 VanessaE      start here, keep reading until the end
23:23 VanessaE      (there's new stuff since I posted the link earlier)
23:26 VanessaE      I really could use some support on this - my dyes implementation is miles ahead of what c55 is about to introduce, IMHO.
23:31 NakedFury     he wants colors to come from materials and found in the world and not be many of them
23:33 VanessaE      yeah I guess - but mese = blue?  come ON.
23:34 NakedFury     well if he gave a definite mese colored block instead of that attrocious MESE block default has
23:34 VanessaE      (I've looked at jordach's recipes, they're terrible ... )
23:34 VanessaE      but that's just it - mese is defined as being yellow.
23:34 VanessaE      yellow != blue.
23:35 VanessaE      I get my colors from flowers, each of which is defined exactly as the color I get from them anyway