Time  Nick       Message
00:15 sfan5      holy shit pitch fly is some stupid stuff
00:15 sfan5      if you look at the ground, space will move forward shift backwards
00:20 sofar      well, 'w' is direction of travel, and 'space' is 90 degrees rotated from that?
00:20 sofar      with that you can make interesting downward looking pan shots
00:24 sfan5      it does make sense if you consider how it works
00:24 sfan5      I just find it weird since space = jump =
00:24 sfan5      go upwards is what usually happens
00:40 Calinou    yeah, I think moving upwards regardless of pitch would make sense when pressing "jump"
00:40 Calinou    (and "downwards" when sneaking)
00:40 Calinou    even Quake did it :)
00:45 calcul0n   first thing i did in v5 was to find the setting to disable that crap :)
00:46 Fixer      there is even a key availablew
00:46 Fixer      hotkey
00:46 Fixer      can't you make it like in minecr-ft?
00:46 Fixer      having two modes is powerful, but will it affect gameplay?
01:00 rubenwardy calcul0n: it should be disabled by default
01:01 sfan5      it is, of course
01:01 sfan5      this is the second time I accidentally pressed L though
01:01 calcul0n   well, it was not for me
01:01 calcul0n   ho, there's a key to toggle it?
01:04 rubenwardy yeah, L
01:04 rubenwardy another person accidentally pressing it
01:04 rubenwardy it should probably not be next to K
01:04 rubenwardy maybe make it P
01:04 calcul0n   yep :)
01:04 rubenwardy that's currently only used for print stacks
01:05 calcul0n   on my keyboard it's next to M which i use for "use"
01:07 Emerald2   Heh yep I accidentally press L then wonder why my movement has gone weird.
01:07 rubenwardy paramat ^
01:07 rubenwardy would people be happy if I moved the key to P instead of unbinding it?
01:09 Emerald2   I figure I just have fumble fingers. :)
01:09 calcul0n   it wouldn't change anything for me :)
01:10 calcul0n   but now that i know the key it won't be a problem
01:12 Emerald2   Sometimes I press P by mistake, too. :D
01:13 rubenwardy lol
01:13 Emerald2   For somebody who learned to type early on, I sure am terrible sometimes. Especially to hit the = without looking.
01:21 Sokomine   for me, L stands for (l)oose item. dropping on q was too impractical
02:07 paramat    yeah, i admit i have accidently pressed L too. but due to fumbling around for K
02:07 paramat    next to K makes the most sense
02:08 paramat    still think it's worse to remove the keybinding. a forum news post is probably needed
02:09 paramat    stuff like this always happens when adding a new key
02:20 paramat    i'll make a forum post
02:31 paramat    ... once 5.0.1 is released
03:43 rubenwardy argh, firefox keeps freezing
05:01 sofar      https://minetest.foo-projects.org/mt-players.png woohoo
08:45 IhrFussel  'enchanting' mod is completely broken! 3d_armor now uses 'armor_groups = {fleshy = value} and not groups = {fleshy = value} anymore
08:45 IhrFussel  It took me aboutan hour to fix this ... before it did the exact opposite of what it#s supposed to do
08:46 IhrFussel  It made the armor WEAKER
09:32 ANAND      Just realized I was disconnected by freenode because my IP was blacklisted by some random organization that freenode is associated with... -_-
09:33 Emerald2   Weird.
09:34 ANAND      I'd been connected to the Internet using the exact same IP for the past 48 hours, lol. What's wrong with freenode...
10:23 Krock      ContentDB: Password must have at least 6 characters with one lowercase letter, one uppercase letter and one number
10:23 Krock      > my password being >15 characters
10:39 rubenwardy Krock: those are the defaults, lol
10:39 rubenwardy although, I guess: Security 101, don't trust the defaults
10:49 Krock      ^^
11:04 IhrFussel  Can someone tell me if 0.4.13 understands custom name tags?
11:04 IhrFussel  0.4.11 definitely doesn't
11:05 rubenwardy I think 0.4.13 is the first that does
11:05 IhrFussel  Which is why I don't want to allow these old clients to play on my server anymore... the vast majority uses 0.4.14 anyways
11:05 rubenwardy there's also a version that does, but doesn't work with alpha=0
11:34 ANAND      How (non-)intensive are raycasts? Are they performant enough to be used multiple times within a second?
11:35 rubenwardy they are performed every tick - on the client side
11:36 ANAND      That's quite self-explanatory - they're probably efficient enough for https://github.com/ClobberXD/gunslinger/issues/12 then. :)
11:36 Krock      performed every frame on client-side
11:37 Krock      and they're fast
11:37 ANAND      Faster than manual Lua-side calculations, right?
11:37 Krock      and way more precise
11:37 ANAND      Awesome :)
11:37 Krock      here's something you could measure: https://github.com/SmallJoker/farbows/blob/master/init.lua#L128
11:38 Krock      set the arrow velocity to 100-ish for longer distances
11:42 ANAND      Wow, nice mod!
11:43 Krock      thanks. just a demo
11:43 ANAND      Works very nicely, even on my potato PC, considering that raycasts are performed every step.
11:44 ANAND      +on
11:45 ANAND      That's enough assurance for me to go ahead with my method of "deferred raycast" :D
11:48 ANAND      Basically, I'm not using entities for bullets in my guns mod for performance reasons, and the bullets deal instant damage to the player in line-of-sight. So I'm trying to use raycasts to replicate bullet-entity behaviour (i.e. the bullet actually taking time to travel from the gun to target) without entities.
11:49 ANAND      Haven't gotten down to implementing it yet, because I thought I should first understand if raycasts are actually performant enough for this use-case.
11:57 Krock      the time spent from click to the actual impact is already a sever step long
11:57 Krock      *server step
11:57 rubenwardy the raycast optimisation were really nice
11:57 rubenwardy completely removed the lag of massive tool ranges
11:58 Krock      yeah, they performed very horribly before
11:58 rubenwardy had fun with this last night: https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/pull/373
11:58 rubenwardy nice new feature
11:58 rubenwardy although it's painful to avoid cheating/loop holes
12:00 Krock      oh right. still no mod out there which uses the item metadata toolcaps
12:00 rubenwardy :(
12:00 Krock      -100 registered special enchanted tools per tool type
12:00 Krock      probably too new to expect anything
12:01 rubenwardy :D
12:01 Krock      although, migrating the enchanting table to the new format should be quite easy
12:01 rubenwardy that PR there will be a pain to do with high performance ^
12:01 rubenwardy because of events like picking things up and taking from chests
12:01 rubenwardy and there being 30 players online
12:02 rubenwardy don't want to swamp players
12:02 rubenwardy with packets
12:02 rubenwardy it would be nice if the profiler allowed you to see how many packets a mod results in sending somehow
12:03 Krock      C++-provided statistics to Lua
12:04 rubenwardy a lot of packets are deferred
12:04 rubenwardy or at least should be
12:04 rubenwardy so it's not so easy
12:04 rubenwardy nothing is so easy
12:05 ANAND      "Nothing is so easy" - rubenwardy, 2019
12:07 IhrFussel  The map stalling is back on my server after lots of weeks!
12:22 IhrFussel  He desperately tries to get as much points as possible in the server list... https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=346226#p346226
12:22 IhrFussel  And claims that someone from Serbia (high ping) can cause more internal server lag... no comment
12:27 rubenwardy oh wow
12:27 rubenwardy TIL C++ supports exponents in floats like    1.e6   for   1,000,000
12:40 IhrFussel  Does 'lsb_release -a' work on any Linux distro?
12:41 rubenwardy works on Manjaro
12:44 sfan5      doesn't work on my arch system
12:44 sfan5      you're better of reading /etc/os-release
12:47 Krock      rubenwardy: uhm.. C to
12:47 rubenwardy sure :D
12:48 IhrFussel  Is it possible with PPAs to install a specific version?
12:48 rubenwardy it's possible without a PPA
12:48 rubenwardy by using the = operator, and holding the package
12:48 IhrFussel  Like what if my OS is Ubuntu 18.04 and stable is 5.0.0 but I want 0.4.17.1 still?
12:49 rubenwardy sudo apt install minetest=0.4.17.1
12:49 IhrFussel  Huh? Does that also work on elementary OS?
12:49 rubenwardy or they can just ask their servers to update :)
12:49 rubenwardy wait oops
12:49 rubenwardy sudo apt install minetest -t something/something/0.4.17.1
12:50 rubenwardy I'm not sure how -t works
12:50 rubenwardy then   sudo apt-mark hold minetest
12:50 rubenwardy if you already have 0.4.17, you can just sudo apt-mark hold mono-devel
12:50 rubenwardy oops
12:50 rubenwardy guess which of my blog posts I copied that from
12:51 Krock      you can freeze an installed version
12:51 Krock      (for the future)
12:56 IhrFussel  I read that after adding the PPA you should be able to simply type apt install minetest=0.4.17.1
12:58 IhrFussel  Doesn't work on Ubuntu 18.04
13:00 IhrFussel  Who thought that it would be a good idea to remove 0.4.17.1 from the repo?
13:00 IhrFussel  https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
13:00 IhrFussel  I see NO 0.4.17.1 for 14.04/16.04/18.04
13:01 IhrFussel  Only available for 17.10 which barely anyone uses
13:05 Krock      after all it's still possible to compile 0.4.17.1 on your server
13:06 Krock      I've got several binaries for 18.04 but those are not vanilla
13:08 IhrFussel  This is not about server...maybe users also still want to be able to install 0.4.17.1 via PPA? The majority of servers won't upgrade anytime soon
13:12 IhrFussel  It might still work via deb files
13:12 IhrFussel  At least on supported systems
15:15 tenplus1   Hi folks :)
15:15 tenplus1   hey Krock
15:22 tenplus1   do you really need to update the player database when using 5.0 ?
15:25 rubenwardy no
15:27 tenplus1   yay, also hi ruben :P
15:28 Krock      hi tenplus1
15:28 rubenwardy hey
15:28 tenplus1   o///
15:28 Krock      you should. it's easier to manage than files
15:28 tenplus1   we updated Xanadu, only hiccup was noguest which was fixed
15:29 tenplus1   will prolly look into player database soon enough, hope it doesnt take ages to convert over
15:39 Krock      it's very fast compared to map migration
15:40 tenplus1   kewl, might do that for next udpate then
15:40 Krock      most time spent is probably by logging the name of each converted player
15:40 tenplus1   will it take into account players who havent logged in for a while ?
15:42 Krock      it takes all player files in account
15:42 Krock      would be stupid to not do so
15:42 Krock      and it'll leave the player files untouched, as a backup
15:42 tenplus1   kewl, thx
15:43 Krock      so it's kinda just copying the information over to a new database
15:43 tenplus1   got many 5.0 things to add to mods now, especially ethereal mapgen
15:43 Krock      and then redirecting Minetest to use another backend
15:46 tenplus1   <fingers crossed> all goes well :D but am glad it's up and running ok
15:57 tenplus1   was said in forums that crashes happened due to mods with same names as defaults, so far that hasn't happened and I'm running quite a few (farming, xpanes, carts, tnt, fire etc.)
16:01 tenplus1   hi Tommy
16:20 tenplus1   disabled dungeon_loot, was crashing server
16:20 rubenwardy I suggest updating to 5.1.0-dev MTG
16:20 rubenwardy there's a fix for that
16:20 rubenwardy it's due to farming_redo
16:20 rubenwardy or not having farmin
16:21 tenplus1   ? it is ? why ?
16:21 tenplus1   redo has all the same functions and items in default farming
16:22 rubenwardy there's a missing item somewher
16:22 tenplus1   k, will check
16:22 rubenwardy which causes the crash
16:22 rubenwardy dungeon_loot has a list of items it needs in a table somewhere
16:23 tenplus1   all items on list are there, only lava_bucket is missing on xanadu cause we disabled
16:23 tenplus1   that's prolly the one
16:37 tenplus1   wb
16:39 IhrFussel  The map is NOT loading on my server...and it's worse than ever before
16:39 IhrFussel  It is not server lag
16:39 tenplus1   hi fussel
16:40 IhrFussel  Hey tenplus1
16:40 tenplus1   is it the same issue where your server would stall from time to time ??
16:40 IhrFussel  It's also not network bandwith... the server only sends with 1.5 MB/s right now
16:41 IhrFussel  Yes slow map loading and sometimes it just stalls the whole map (and meta actions I think cause inventories also don't update during the stall)
16:42 IhrFussel  But chat, player movement and mobs work on loaded map parts
16:42 IhrFussel  Entities even load in unloaded map parts...they basically spawn in the void
16:43 tenplus1   that's so weird...
16:44 IhrFussel  And it always fixes itself again as soon as a certain random app user disconnects
16:44 IhrFussel  Exactly at that moment
16:45 ANAND      Have you tried dissecting the packets the certain random app client sends, using the MT Wireshark plugin?
16:45 tenplus1   hi anand
16:46 ANAND      You might be able to find something interesting
16:46 ANAND      Heya tenplus1 :)
16:46 tenplus1   o/
17:03 tenplus1   wb benrob :P
17:05 benrob0329 Ty
17:09 tenplus1   ooh, my hoggie has arrived :) brb
18:06 clavi      what's the biggest ram usage you guys have seen on heavily modded servers?
18:45 benrob0329 Couple gigs
18:47 Fixer      can't you just use AppImage of minetest server?
20:18 IhrFussel  Maybe the devs should've made it possible for server owners to customize the 'mismatched protocol version' error server side, cause I would LOVE to tell them that all they need to do is either install an older version or install an app like Multicraft to keep playing
20:19 IhrFussel  From what I hear some of my players are too young to get what's needed ... they think they can never again play on my server
20:47 rubenwardy I think you should just update, loyal players will follow you
20:47 rubenwardy They have on CTF
20:49 IhrFussel  Too early... too many mobile apps don't offer 5.0.0 yet
20:49 IhrFussel  Do we have any NFS experts in here?
20:49 IhrFussel  Hello... when I try to remove a huge directory recursively via NFS I often get an error saying 'file does not exist' but in reality it is there and remains in the directory and I have delete it after manually
20:49 IhrFussel  <IhrFussel> Is that normal?
20:49 IhrFussel  <IhrFussel> Example ... I use sudo rm -R on the whole 'dir' but after execution it happens a lot that files like 'dir/dir2/somefile' remain
20:54 sofar      rubenwardy: ITB crashed on sfinv calling .is_in_nav with an invalid player parameter
20:54 sofar      is that possible?
20:55 rubenwardy Sounds like a mod being weird
20:55 sofar      no mod will call that method I think
20:57 sofar      oh, hmm, possible minetest.after() calling
23:00 aerozoic   Is there a guide for server owners to upgrade from 4.x to 5.0?
23:21 sofar      aerozoic: update your mods/game as well, the end
23:22 aerozoic   sofar, tenplus1 was talking earlier about updating player db, idk what that means but seems to indicate more than just fixing installed mods?
23:23 aerozoic   also if i installed 4.x and compiled from source, does that mean i need to compile again when i pull the 5.0 update?
23:25 sofar      how you get 5.0.0 is up to you
23:28 aerozoic   hints the need for a guide
23:30 aerozoic   and if there is no guide then i am asking for guidance
23:40 NathanS21  If you compile from source anytime you pull newer code you need to compile again.
23:41 NathanS21  Obviously that only applies to the engine.
23:46 aerozoic   ok thx