Time Nick Message 09:46 nerzhul i will look at play store if there is not many problems and push the 5.0.0 as 5.0.1 is quite long to happen 09:48 nerzhul pushed in production. It will be published when google wants 09:48 nerzhul no new bugs reported by android since 0.4.17 builds 09:52 nerzhul i like this russian translation for a play store comment: "too wet" 09:54 nerzhul do we have 3rd person camera fix in 5.0.1 ? in beta a user report it 09:54 Megaf Greetings 09:54 nerzhul some users on the play store are complaining about missing help to assist new players 12:23 benrob0329 nerzhul: Welp, time to wait 6 months for Fdroid to update 12:54 nerzhul benrob0329 not my food :D 18:55 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/XmxMi.png 18:56 sofar that's very red 18:56 rubenwardy the blendings not quite right 18:56 rubenwardy the blue looks better 18:57 rubenwardy the formspec code for that is: 18:57 VanessaE what's the game on the far right? 18:57 rubenwardy style[world_delete;bgcolor;#ff0000] 18:57 rubenwardy button[4,3.95;2.6,1;world_delete;Delete] 18:58 rubenwardy VanessaE: NodeCore 19:00 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/6sC4c.png 19:00 rubenwardy style_type[button;bgcolor;#006699] 19:00 rubenwardy style[world_delete;bgcolor;#ff0000] 19:00 rubenwardy button[4,3.95;2.6,1;world_delete;Delete] 19:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/006699 -- Server setting for complete disable of client-provided CSM 19:04 kaeza Stfu ShadowBot 19:04 kaeza Greetings. 19:06 kaeza rubenwardy: one can style buttons now? 19:06 rubenwardy kaeza: style all the things! 19:06 kaeza :o 19:07 kaeza Your image looks much better than default. 19:18 VanessaE rubenwardy: nonono, it's -=> STYLE ALL THE THINGS! "\:D/ <=- 19:19 VanessaE you have to write it like that to properly invoke the memory of image ;) 19:22 * Sokomine sees a button and can't resist to press it (hopefully rubenwardy created a backup) 19:44 nerzhul rubenwardy i prefer gray, and red with a little bit gray :) 19:48 rubenwardy nerzhul: well, that's obviously not going to become default 19:58 * sofar squeeees piiiiink 19:58 rubenwardy #8383 19:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8383 -- Add style[] formspec tag by rubenwardy 20:00 VanessaE sofar: http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/images/omgponies.jpg 20:00 VanessaE :) 20:04 sofar I remember it well 20:11 Rafi59 !server Axinite Capture the Flag 20:11 MinetestBot Rafi59: Axinite Capture the Flag | axinite.rafi59.codelib.re:30002 | Clients: 0/20, 0/2 | Version: 5.0.0 / capturetheflag | Ping: 41ms 20:12 * Rafi59 is testing MinetestBot commands :) 20:13 rubenwardy any changes? 20:15 rubenwardy https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2122943/54459061-79a68e80-475d-11e9-8744-b86e98407db8.png 20:15 rubenwardy slightly better blending, 20:17 scr267a !server Aurelium 20:17 MinetestBot scr267a: Aurelium | m.impactcore.com:30001 | Clients: 0/15, 0/2 | Version: 5.1.0-Aurelium / minetest | Ping: 149ms 20:18 scr267a haha 20:18 scr267a nice 20:18 scr267a terrible ping :( 20:18 VanessaE !server dreambuilder 20:18 MinetestBot VanessaE: VanessaE's Dreambuilder survival Server | daconcepts.com:30001 | Clients: 2/50, 1/5 | Version: 5.0.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 89ms 20:18 scr267 :) Yay! Vanessa's server has a better ping! 20:18 VanessaE heh 20:19 scr267 That is a useful bot tool, that is 20:19 VanessaE of course the ping depends on where MinetestBot is relative to the host :) 20:19 VanessaE (where IS MinetestBot run from?) 20:20 VanessaE or is it reading that data from the public list? 20:20 scr267 !whereisminetestbot 20:20 scr267 nope he doesn't want to tell us :) 20:20 rubenwardy Amsterdamn 20:20 rubenwardy and it's from the public server list 20:20 scr267 ah, well that makes a lot more sense 20:20 rubenwardy !ping daconcepts.com 3000 20:20 VanessaE Amsterdamnitall huh 20:21 rubenwardy !up daconcepts.com 3000 20:21 MinetestBot daconcepts.com:3000 seems to be down 20:21 rubenwardy !up daconcepts.com 30001 20:21 MinetestBot daconcepts.com:30001 is up (88ms) 20:21 rubenwardy there's the ping from MinetestBot 20:21 rubenwardy pretty sure they're on the same serber though 20:21 VanessaE if ShadowBot were to reply, it would be, like, 0.1 ms (since it's on the same machine as the server) :) 20:22 scr267 Yeah but wouldn't that depend if it uses domain vs ip though? 20:22 VanessaE dunno. 20:22 scr267 and public ip vs local ip 20:22 scr267 cause that will make a few more round trips if its going out and back in. 20:22 scr267 er, not round trips, but hops 20:22 VanessaE root@daconcepts:~# ping daconcepts.com 20:22 VanessaE PING daconcepts.com(daconcepts.com (2607:5300:60:e9f::1)) 56 data bytes 20:22 VanessaE 64 bytes from daconcepts.com (2607:5300:60:e9f::1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.051 ms 20:23 VanessaE I suppose not. :) 20:24 scr267 er, well if you try mtr you will see what I mean, or traceroute. 20:24 scr267 but ipv6 might be rerouting that directly within your network... oh, geez i don't know 20:25 VanessaE networking is confusing :) 20:25 scr267 ipv6 is a bit confusing for me at the moment. 20:26 scr267 I ran into some really annoying issues on my linux systems with IPv6 due to running bridged vms on the same hosts 20:27 VanessaE to me, IPv6 is as if the people who invented it said "hey, let's have a MAC address get married to and have a child with an IPv4 address, then mangle the fuck out of the result." 20:28 VanessaE they could have just added a couple of octets to the left end of the address, but noooooooooooo 20:29 scr267 Yeah indeed. My initial understanding was that it was just a simple hexadecimal address and then I started reading about it. 20:29 scr267 And then I quickly wanted to run away and hide. 20:30 VanessaE oh, and then add to that, "let's give everyone a /56 or /64, too!" as if the average home user needs more than a small handful of addresses (nevermind that it's not smart to put one's LAN directly onto the 'net, that's why we have NAT) 20:31 luk3yx <@VanessaE> they could have just added a couple of octets to the left end of the address, but noooooooooooo 20:31 scr267 Yes, that is a horrible thing. 20:31 luk3yx West 20:31 luk3yx *Why did they not do that? 20:31 sfan5 NAT is not meant as a security boundary 20:32 scr267 sfan5, agreed its not. 20:32 scr267 but they really increased the complexity of the addressing scheme :) 20:33 scr267 mah, im not well versed in ipv6 yet... hard for me to comment. 20:33 VanessaE sfan5: no, not using it as that. simply as a more convenient way to group machines on the LAN. security is the edge firewall's job 20:35 luk3yx Also, is it a bad thing if I make a 0.4 server that 5.0 clients can connect to? 20:35 VanessaE yes. 20:36 luk3yx benrob0329 said the protocol changes were to weed out bad forks. 20:36 VanessaE not really. 20:36 VanessaE but it does have that effec 20:36 VanessaE t 20:36 VanessaE just, don't. 20:36 luk3yx (As well as everything else) 20:36 luk3yx Why not? 20:36 VanessaE just upgrade to 5.0.0 (or .0.1) 20:36 VanessaE don't split things further. 20:37 rubenwardy it would be better to have a 5.0.0 server which 0.4 clients can connect to 20:37 VanessaE THAT might be a better idea, yeah 20:37 VanessaE but still impossible I guess 20:38 luk3yx I want it to be used as a transitional server until everyone upgrades to MT 5. 20:38 luk3yx (And I'm already halfway through creating it) 20:38 VanessaE careful, we don't want to end up with breakage like that weird thing we had between early and mid 0.4.x :) 20:38 sfan5 why can't "everyone" just upgrade right now? 20:38 VanessaE (I think it was 0.4.6 versus everything later?) 20:38 scr267 Has the default ore generation depths changed between 0.4.17 and 5.0.0? 20:39 luk3yx Because people don't know how to upgrade from the low-quality forks to the official game 20:39 rubenwardy sfan5: a lot of people are on mobile forks which haven't updated and likely never will 20:39 luk3yx And they don't get much of a chance to be told how. 20:44 VanessaE of course, 20:44 VanessaE like ben said, that DOES help filter out junk clients 20:45 VanessaE in the sense that if a client is perfectly good, but the maintainer is unresponsive, that fork will die off. 20:46 luk3yx Unless server owners change the port and create a 0.4 server telling players to upgrade... 20:46 sfan5 you can remind people 20:46 sfan5 then switch to 5.0 and do the above 20:46 rubenwardy luk3yx: that's what I've done 20:47 VanessaE my channel has 5.x builds listed in the /topic, for linux, windows, android 20:47 IhrFussel iOS users have no official app to upgrade to and at least 40% of my mobile userbase uses iOS to play ... that alone is a big argument to stay on 0.4.X for now 20:47 VanessaE so no worries ther 20:47 VanessaE e 20:49 IhrFussel iPhone marketshare is gigantic compared to Android which runs on thousands of devices 20:49 VanessaE um 20:49 VanessaE n o 20:49 VanessaE iOS has WAY less than android 20:49 rubenwardy Android has a much bigger marketshare 20:49 VanessaE something like 5% of the mobile market 20:49 rubenwardy iOS users are much more likely to buy apps 20:49 IhrFussel When you compare that a few devices have a larger audience compared to a few Android devices then what I say is true 20:50 VanessaE IhrFussel: it doesn't work like that. 20:50 VanessaE you compare the entire line to the entire line. 20:50 VanessaE all of iOS versus all of android. 20:50 VanessaE all versions, all devices on which they run, new or old. 20:50 VanessaE sfan5: don't you have stats for this/" 20:50 VanessaE ? 20:51 sfan5 yes 20:51 sfan5 i should probably make new stats at some point 20:51 rubenwardy https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/serverlist_stats_2018-03-06.txt 20:51 rubenwardy Android -> 956067 (83.42%) 20:51 rubenwardy iOS -> 190039 (16.58%) 20:51 VanessaE ok, 17%. still a huge difference 20:52 VanessaE (I think the 5% figure is overall, not limited to any specific program/app) 20:52 rubenwardy iOS users are probably more likely to download apps 20:53 rubenwardy that being said, my dad uses iOS 20:53 VanessaE hard to imagine that ANYONE is still using 0.4.8/9/10 :) 20:53 rubenwardy and he only downloads apps if I downloaded them for him 20:53 IhrFussel I think it is gigantic to be able to have a market share of 10+% with only ~ 5 active devices on the market 20:53 VanessaE 5? 20:53 VanessaE you're forgetting all previous versions of the hardware 20:54 VanessaE iPhone isn't just one device, it's like, 6 or 7. 20:54 luk3yx Active devices 20:54 IhrFussel I'm talking about the ones that are still supported by Apple... I doubt that 4/5 still get support...maybe limited 20:54 VanessaE then iPads, 4 or 5 of those now isn't it? 20:54 luk3yx Oh, I read that as ones they're still selling. 20:54 VanessaE "still supported by the manufacturer" is irrelevantr. 20:54 VanessaE my Samsung Galaxy S4 is massively obsolete but still works, f.ex. 20:55 VanessaE people who buy new stuff don't always throw away the old, they sell or give away 20:55 IhrFussel Yes but nobody would buy a S4 nowadays anymore so the device is kinda irrelavant 20:55 VanessaE wanna bet? 20:55 IhrFussel irrelevant* 20:55 VanessaE if my phone breaks, I'll be looking for another S4, because it works just fine, and it's cheap 20:56 IhrFussel Regardless...iOS has a huge fanbase and these people will only buy iDevices for the rest of their lives probably 20:57 VanessaE rubenwardy: oh, just realized the date on that txt. guess those stats are juuuuuust slightly outdated :) 20:57 rubenwardy only a year 20:57 sfan5 hard to imagine that ANYONE is still using 0.4.8/9/10 :) 20:57 sfan5 two words: debian stable 20:57 IhrFussel Not knowing that the tech in those devices is not worth the money they pay for... they pay for the brand 20:57 rubenwardy however, 18% is a large percentage 20:57 VanessaE sfan5: Did you mean: Debian Stale? 20:57 VanessaE :) 20:57 sfan5 same thing 20:58 benrob0329 sfan5, not even Debian Stable is that old, they're only on 0.4.16 iirc 20:58 IhrFussel I think I read that the newest iPhone has parts worth ~ $700 ... where are the other 300-400? 20:59 VanessaE IhrFussel: a quick google says that iOS sales are slowing down, while android is still speeding up. customer retention is still up for both though (moreso for iOS) 20:59 VanessaE which in turn means than iOS market share is shrinking. 21:00 IhrFussel Manufacturers of smartphones only really have Android as option when choosing a OS... even Blackberry admits that Android is the only relevant OPEN OS these days 21:00 VanessaE nah, there are others, like windows (shudder) 21:00 VanessaE and whatever it is that Huawai claims they have as a "backup" 21:01 IhrFussel Not sure if Android counts as 'open source' but it's definitely more open than iOS and Windows 21:01 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ apt-cache show minetest 21:01 VanessaE Package: minetest 21:01 VanessaE Version: 0.4.17.1+repack-1~bpo9+1 21:01 VanessaE [...][ 21:01 VanessaE benrob0329: ^ 21:01 rubenwardy although, maybe iOS does allow LGPL software: https://lwn.net/Articles/526355/ 21:02 rubenwardy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10894522 21:02 sfan5 x.x.x.x - - [15/Mar/2019:20:42:59 +0000] "GET /list HTTP/1.1" 200 354900 "-" "Minetest/0.4.10 (Linux/4.13.0-32-generic x86_64)" "-" 21:02 sfan5 well actually it seems to be ubuntu stable, mostly 21:02 VanessaE rubenwardy: I thought the real pitfall was apps that can themselves run arbitrary, user-provided code? 21:02 rubenwardy no lol 21:02 sfan5 there appears to be an iOS app with Minetest/0.4.10 too 21:02 VanessaE it used to be the case a few years ago 21:03 rubenwardy GPL isn't allowed because the GPL conflicts with the app store EULA 21:03 rubenwardy ie: GPL says you're not allow to apply further restrictions 21:03 rubenwardy but the app store does 21:03 VanessaE (it prevented the creation of a good C64 emulator app for a while) 21:20 IhrFussel Even if we could publish the real MT on the app store... it costs $100 per year right? 21:21 rubenwardy We'd probably be able to fund that somehow 21:21 IhrFussel Versus Android one-time $25 fee 21:29 VanessaE is it $100 a year for any year a new release is uploaded? or every year regardless? 21:44 IhrFussel I think it's simply the fee to be able to publish apps to the app store