Time  Nick         Message
01:01 * benrob0329 explores servers
01:03 benrob0329   Any server which has a broad enough anti-guest regex to disallow any username with numbers at the end immediately goes on my "Well screw you too" list.
01:09 rdococ       the best anti-guest regex is /^[A-Z][a-zA-Z]+\d{2,3}$|^benrob0329$/g
01:18 ANAND        lol :)
01:56 benrob0329   "Yeah, that's cool. But I've seen all of this before. Show me something new, something different."
01:56 benrob0329   ^ thoughts while looking for a server to do a video on
01:57 rdococ       If CSMs supported rendering graphics, then I might be able to create a *much* more capable touchscreen mod.
01:57 rdococ       s/supported/support/
01:59 kaeza        Do it using texture modifiers ala signs_lib.
02:00 xerox123_    benrob0329: lasers™?
02:01 xerox123_    hehe
02:04 benrob0329   xerox123_, lazers are certainly something special :P
02:14 benrob0329   The thing I have to ask with this is, why is ___ different from the other several-dozen servers that we have? What makes it special, what makes it worth making a video about, or worth playing on?
02:15 xerox123_    BlS doesnt have pipeworks/technic, it has tubelic and terumet which make some cool looking factories
02:21 rubenwardy   *lasers
02:22 benrob0329   which is cool, and I'm glad to see more than the classic pipeworks/technic combo but how does that really change gameplay or builds?
02:22 rubenwardy   Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
02:22 rubenwardy   LASER
02:23 benrob0329   How does that make it different than your average Modded MTG, High-Res Medieval, or RPG Survival?
03:18 xerox123_    benrob0329: you could check out persistent kingdoms, but i dont think anybody there would let you fly around their base
03:18 xerox123_    esp if it's gonna be in a video
03:22 benrob0329   xerox123_, I've been told about PK, it's definitely on my list.
03:22 benrob0329   Could make for an interesting filming setup
04:41 benrob0329   What is the point of having a "No Video" Policy on a public server?
05:34 kaeza        Good night.
11:26 IhrFussel    Even after adding a if formname ~= "" then return end and adding a priv check for u_i 'giveme' functions I still get a lag of several seconds sometimes
11:26 IhrFussel    - on_player_receive_fields[2] .......................  |         1 |   4822490 |       620
11:26 rubenwardy   yay u_i
11:27 IhrFussel    I don't see how the 'put to craft grid' buttons can cause such a lag
11:28 IhrFussel    This is btw the ONLY callback that exceeds 1 second lag
11:28 IhrFussel    No other player_receive_fields() callback takes that long ever
11:30 IhrFussel    To make sure I might've to disable those buttons for testing
11:30 IhrFussel    If lag is normal again then it's 100% something to do with the 'handle_giveme' function
11:31 IhrFussel    I mean 'handle_craft'
11:32 IhrFussel    The actual function name is 'craftguide_craft'
11:35 IhrFussel    Can someone look at that function and tell me what could potentially cause a lag of 3+ secs there? Craft recipes can only have a maximum of 9 recipe items right?
11:36 IhrFussel    Here is the function https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/blob/master/register.lua#L506
11:38 rubenwardy   there's recursion in a triple nested for loop
11:38 rubenwardy   that'll be why
11:38 rubenwardy   oh wait, nvm
11:39 IhrFussel    Maybe the 'all' button is the problem?
11:39 IhrFussel    Like if someone has thousands of items for crafting and presses 'All'?
11:40 IhrFussel    I just restarted my server with the function commented out...let's see how high the lag goes
11:40 rubenwardy   it should probably be operating on Lua tables at this scale
11:41 rubenwardy   ie:      local list = inv:get_list("name");      list[i]    instead of         inv:get_stack("name", i)
11:53 IhrFussel    Profiler says 'giveme' button takes about 30ms which is totally fine
12:29 tenplus1     hi folks :)
12:30 _Xenon       Hey tenplus1
12:30 tenplus1     hi Xenon :)
12:33 tenplus1     Ethereal NG updated (added Sakura Door to fit in with Paper Walls)
12:45 twoelk       0/
12:45 tenplus1     hi twoelk o.
12:52 tenplus1     wb
13:01 twoelk       tenplus1 , ever seen this ?  https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3588
13:02 tenplus1     nope... although nice image at the end :D
13:03 tenplus1     gotta make the tree model look better sometime :P
13:04 twoelk       seems like them cherry trees have been added to minetest on several occasions over the last 7 years but never stayed
13:05 tenplus1     true, never seen them before on forum
13:05 twoelk       google for sakura voxel for inspiration :D
13:06 IhrFussel    Protocol version 26 is which MT version?
13:06 tenplus1     hi fussel
13:06 IhrFussel    Hey tenplus1
13:06 IhrFussel    I think it's 0.4.12 or 0.4.13
13:06 tenplus1     lololol, sakura voxel = https://pre00.deviantart.net/26da/th/pre/f/2018/016/1/5/voxel_japanese_sakura_by_pixelz3d-dc071bx.png
13:09 twoelk       0.4.16?  https://wiki.minetest.net/User:Twoelk/sandbox1
13:10 twoelk       see table at bottom of page
13:10 tenplus1     themods ?
13:10 twoelk       another wip that I totally forgot
13:12 tenplus1     interesting page :D
13:15 twoelk       :D, now you know my folder tree templates
13:16 tenplus1     hehe
13:17 IhrFussel    How to explain someone with Ubuntu how to get the newest MT version? The person already has problems opening the terminal... IMO only people who know at least a little about computers should use Linux
13:17 twoelk       https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NJUWjZJftN0/maxresdefault.jpg a design worth stealing er .... use as inspiration of course
13:18 tenplus1     I might tweak the model later today, add a few ysplices in the right places and chance nodes
13:18 IhrFussel    They say they installed MT a year ago... now I tried to get the Ubuntu version they use and told them to type 'lsb_release -a' into the terminal and they find it too hard
13:19 tenplus1     gawd
13:19 IhrFussel    I'm guessing they use 16.04 which still has 0.4.13 in the official repos I think
13:20 IhrFussel    So I'd have to explain to them how to add a PPA
13:20 tenplus1     to download minetest and install ? just give them the link to the .deb file
13:21 IhrFussel    Do PPAs have deb files?
13:21 tenplus1     did you find what version of ubuntu he has
13:21 twoelk       well with fingers trained on wiping tiny mobile screens doing some typing in a terminal can be a frightening adventure
13:21 IhrFussel    Not yet cause they find it too hard to type the command into the terminal...
13:22 tenplus1     would either be 16.04 or 18.04
13:22 tenplus1     https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable/+files/minetest_0.4.16-ppa5~ubuntu16.10.1_amd64.deb
13:22 tenplus1     https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable/+files/minetest_0.4.17.1-ppa0~ubuntu18.04.1_amd64.deb
13:22 tenplus1     those will work
13:22 tenplus1     if it's a 64-bit system
13:24 IhrFussel    They say they installed MT a year ago so most likely 16.04 cause 18.04 doesn't exist that long yet
13:24 tenplus1     1st link will work on 16.04 and 16.10 releasesd:)
13:24 IhrFussel    Or maybe they upgraded...but wouldn't the MT version upgrade then too?
13:25 tenplus1     if they upgrade using an LTS it stays that release, until  new LTS comes out
13:25 tenplus1     so ya never know
13:25 IhrFussel    I mean if I install MT 0.4.13 via official repo on 16.04 and 18.04 only has 0.4.16 ... would Ubuntu update my MT version after I upgrade?
13:25 tenplus1     yup, would upgrade minetest as well
13:26 IhrFussel    Then they definitely don't use 18.04 else their MT would be newer
13:26 tenplus1     and they somehow cannot hit: CTRL+ALT+T to open a terminal and type: lsb_release -a
13:26 tenplus1     stranger
13:32 IhrFussel    The .deb file will open Ubuntu software center right?
13:33 IhrFussel    Or will it just install directly?
13:33 tenplus1     yes, it'll either install using software centre or gdebi, whichever it finds
13:35 tenplus1     do you know what spec their setup is ?
13:42 tenplus1     o/ scr267
13:50 IhrFussel    I know nothing other than 'protocol version 26' and 'using Ubuntu'
13:51 tenplus1     hopefully the .deb file will help
13:51 tenplus1     failing that he would benefit from upgrading his system
14:50 IhrFussel    WAIT a sec... I think I found another possible 'exploit' in u_i ... you can theoretically send a custom field named 'craftguide_craft_9999' and it will try to craft something 10,000 times
14:50 tenplus1     ouch, that needs a limiter added
14:51 IhrFussel    Granted you need the materials to craft but once you got them you can likely cause a big big lag
14:51 tenplus1     do you think anyone would do that on purpose ?
14:52 IhrFussel    IDK...my server experienced 3-6 secs lag recently caused by u_i 'receive_player_fields()' and now that I commented out the 'to craft grid' buttons the lag seems to be gone
14:52 tenplus1     interesting
14:53 IhrFussel    I mean I commented out the function that passes the fields to the 'craft x times' function
14:54 tenplus1     so the 1 and 10 buttons still work ok?
14:55 IhrFussel    They shouldn't cause much lag...one issue might be the 'All' button
14:56 tenplus1     adding a hard limit of 99 would be ideal
15:00 tenplus1     this is why it woudl be ideal to include craftguide and creative invenotry in default
15:01 tenplus1     I wouldnt be surprised, never did like u_i myself
15:02 IhrFussel    At least the exploit requires a modified client (and optionally CSM if they want to have a nice GUI for the formspec field sending)
15:07 IhrFussel    But such mod mistakes are very unfortunate...and some server owners even believe that the 'bad mobile apps' are able to cheat the server and give themselves items
15:07 IhrFussel    When in reality the problem is an exploit in one of the server mods
15:08 tenplus1     if bored enough players can find many exploits to cheat the game :D
15:08 IhrFussel    Yeah but the mobile apps cannot magically cheat more than non-mobile clients
15:10 IhrFussel    btw I recently started logging what players search for in the inventory... and it showed me that many 'bot players' actually look for normal stuff... partly in other languages but they don't send spam links or some kind of command in the inventory
15:11 tenplus1     do we still have bot clients running around servers as much ?
15:12 IhrFussel    I had one recently... didn't react to anything, walked around in the same patterns always punching and sometimes right clicking ... was kinda creepy
15:12 tenplus1     yeah, insta kick
15:12 IhrFussel    I gave them a few dirt nodes and they sometimes placed one
15:13 IhrFussel    Was also btw always the first to join
15:13 tenplus1     eager bot :D
15:13 IhrFussel    A bug happened and I had to restart the server 5 times within 10 minutes...that bot player was always instantly in
15:14 IhrFussel    I temp banned the account and a few minutes later a new name joined with the same behavior
15:14 tenplus1     I've only ever allowed one bot onto server and that was to create a map
15:15 tenplus1     set behaviour, zooming around and loading areas to plot out
15:15 IhrFussel    I wonder what their benefit is...the one I had didn't seem to do any harm to my server cause they ran around in circles kinda
15:16 IhrFussel    Not actual circles but they reached their starting position again after a while... the movement looked a bit like a 'slalom'
15:16 tenplus1     5.0 doors mod has changed "doors_owner" to "owner" which breaks door compatibility if testing 5.0
15:18 IhrFussel    Oh wow that could break lots of servers...
15:19 tenplus1     would have been easy to simple leave it as "door_owner"
15:21 tenplus1     am trying to update Doors Redo to use new 5.0 code but it'll break compatibility now
15:22 IhrFussel    I see now it tries to convert the key name here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/bae58b38067ffec52eb3c3c67d5a2f71190c22e8/mods/doors/init.lua#L7
15:23 tenplus1     yup, so a check every time a door is used and update if found
15:23 tenplus1     wasteful
15:24 IhrFussel    To make it compatible you could simply do local owner = meta:get_string("doors_owner") or meta:get_string("owner")
15:24 IhrFussel    No wait
15:24 IhrFussel    meta returns a "" if not found so that won't work
15:25 tenplus1     if "doors_owner" is found it's a standard (old) door, so it rewrites as "owner" and blanks the former
15:25 IhrFussel    Yes but I mean if you want to make your mod compatible with both 0.4.X and 5.0.0
15:26 IhrFussel    You'll have to do local owner = meta:get_string("doors_owner"); if owner == "" then owner = meta:get_string("owner"); end
15:26 IhrFussel    Maybe
15:26 tenplus1     read 2, write 2... lol
15:27 tenplus1     am changing code to go back to using "doors_owner" for now
15:27 tenplus1     and when 5.0 is more stable and released I'll switch to the new way
15:30 IhrFussel    You could possibly also add a new meta key called 'mode' for example which stores 'doors_owner' or 'owner' and then you only need to local mode = meta:get_string("mode") and can run all writes on that variable
15:30 tenplus1     true
15:31 tenplus1     doors redo has flipped settings using a special key tool though, doors can flip between unlocked, locked and protected
15:36 tenplus1     players prefer the choice of opening/locking/protecting any door registered with the mod :)
15:52 tenplus1     Doors Redo updated (nil checks added, global doors.)
15:57 Calinou      IhrFussel: point them to https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.minetest.Minetest
15:57 Calinou      "Make sure to follow the setup guide before installing" of course :)
15:57 tenplus1     hi Calinou
15:57 Calinou      it's supported on Ubuntu 14.04 and newer (so, any supported Ubuntu version)
15:57 Calinou      on 18.10, you don't need to add a PPA anymore to enable Flatpak support too
15:58 tenplus1     wow, didn't know there were any flatpaks available for Minetest
15:59 Calinou      hi tenplus1 :) I did some work on my mods recently to improve code quality (added Luacheck + Travis CI)
16:00 tenplus1     sweet :P
16:00 Calinou      rubenwardy, sofar: also, I'd like to enable enable Travis CI on my repositories in minetest-mods but I can't do it
16:00 Calinou      (no permissions)
16:00 Fixer        that feel when you have over 5000 or more bookmarks
16:01 Calinou      I use buku for managing my bookmarks in a browser-independent way
16:01 tenplus1     ouch dude, are they all needed ? or just whimsy
16:01 Calinou      the database is a SQLite file, so it can be easily synchronized with Nextcloud or Syncthing
16:01 Calinou      https://github.com/jarun/Buku
16:17 tenplus1     anyone got any good anime recommendations ???
16:20 tenplus1     foody time :) laters all o/
16:55 Fixer        fuck pinterest and their spam in google images search and their shitty modal window
16:55 Fixer        get of my google image lawn
16:55 rubenwardy   it does truly suck
17:16 Fixer        bless https://mycroftproject.com
18:36 benrob0329   Fixer, could you activate my account on JT2? I joined for a bit some time ago and would like to take another look
18:37 Fixer        benrob0329: no idea how
18:37 benrob0329   Well, is there someone else on IRC who's on the moderator team?
18:38 benrob0329   Also I'm gonna say it, deactivating an account for inactivity is really annoying
18:39 benrob0329   If I was a long-time player who wanted to look around and bring back some old memories, needing to find a way of contacting a mod just to look around for 15 minutes would make me just move on.
18:46 Calinou      deleting accounts for inactivity should probably be bound to an "initial activity" meter of some sort
18:46 Calinou      like, long-time players never get their account deleted
18:46 Calinou      but players who stay for one hour would get it deleted after 3 months or so
18:49 benrob0329   Calinou, it's not deleted, it's deactivated
18:49 benrob0329   just deleting I could understand, but I can't log back in without getting a hold of a mod first
18:57 Sokomine     benrob0329: ah, indeed. my account is similarily deactivated. probably best send a pn on the forum? i've visited that server only for sightseeing as i severely dislike any pvp that is not strictly on an agree-to or mere-accident-basis
19:01 twoelk       benrob0329 ask sorcerykid
19:02 benrob0329   The way I look at it, if your server does something stupid (like deactivate my account or disallow my already snipped in-game username) I don't really want to make a video about it.
21:21 IhrFussel    Not sure what 'deactivating' is supposed to accomplish... either you let the account be or delete it to save some space....decativating will do neither
21:21 IhrFussel    It sounds dumb and pointless to me
21:24 IhrFussel    On my server unimportant info (like profile) is deleted after 6 months of no login and after 1 year account data/protections are wiped
21:26 IhrFussel    Cause 'areas' actually gets slower the more protections exist... at 1,000 looping through them only takes 50-80ms but when you reach 3,000 or more it can take up to 2 seconds when using /find_areas
21:26 rubenwardy   install libspatial
21:43 Shara        IhrFussel: Deleting protections for inactivity can be really bad. It's not odd for players who build really good things to move on... If I took that approach on RC, some really beautiful works would now be open for griefing.
21:55 benrob0329   IhrFussel, Shara: Transfer them to the admin then?
21:59 Shara        I don't know what Fussel does. But if he's worried about too many areas, I doubt he's doing that.
21:59 Shara        It's not something I'd ever do either way.The onyl time areas get removed on my server is if the admin team makes a decision to remove them
22:08 rdococ       What kinds of messages can be sent with mod channels?
22:11 rdococ       Can functions be sent if they have no upvalues?
22:16 sfan5        you can send anything that can be turned into a string
22:25 Fixer        Shara: removing protects is very cancerous, i see that in mc a lot, 30 days and boom, i would rather inspect the area first and then remove if it is empty
22:27 Shara        Fixer: Yea. That's why I spoke up about it. Any kind of auto-removal of protection is just asking for good builds to get wrecked
22:54 * Sokomine   heavily nods to Shara
23:04 IhrFussel    Then we have different views... if a player doesn't spend time on my server for 1 year I honestly don't think they are worth my server resources anymore ... if you move on from a server you do it for good
23:06 IhrFussel    This might also depend on the type of server you run... creative servers are expected to keep any big projects I'd say
23:07 rubenwardy   that's kinda bs
23:07 rubenwardy   say a player builds something massive near your spawn, then goes off line for a while
23:08 rubenwardy   their build could end up getting trashed
23:08 IhrFussel    1 year is more than a while... 1 year just tells me 'sorry i found something else or quit MT entirely'
23:08 rubenwardy   but the build should still have value for you
23:08 rubenwardy   if it's in a visible location especially
23:09 rubenwardy   I haven't been on Shara's server for about a year
23:09 rubenwardy   I'd be quite annoyed if my stuff was gone
23:09 rubenwardy   as per usual, you're making shitty assumptions
23:09 Shara        ^
23:10 Shara        Fussel, I'd be pretty furious with you if I found the castle I built on your server had lost protection as well.
23:10 IhrFussel    1 year is more than enough time to come back to a server you have important builds on... I accept no excuse there
23:10 Shara        Okay, I will tell serious builders to avoid your server from now on.
23:10 Shara        It doesn't matter if it's survival or creative
23:11 Shara        And your assumptions are so wrong in so many ways.
23:11 Shara        It is not about giving resources to a player. If a build is high quality, that build adds value to your server regardless of whether the player is there or gone
23:12 IhrFussel    The BUILD is not deleted just the protection... so if the project was built far from usual visited places chances are it's still intact if the player ever decides to join again
23:12 Shara        "chances"
23:13 IhrFussel    If players fear deletion/griefing they can use local map saving
23:14 Shara        Which most don't know about and find really inconvenient to do anythign meaningful with, especially once custom nodes are involved
23:14 Shara        I wouldn't even know how to duplicate the nodes in my build there for example
23:14 IhrFussel    And yes this is about resources cause as I explained earlier more protections = more lag per step ... and I'm not going to recompile my server and readjust everything again just to enable some faster protection checking
23:15 IhrFussel    The next time I recompile is when I switch to 5.0.0
23:15 Shara        Well, no one else here seems to agree with your viewpoint, but you do as you wish
23:16 IhrFussel    My server is already very mods heavy... I cannot accept more lag just because some players who virtually never join think their projects need to stay protected for years to come
23:18 Shara        Well go ahead and delete my builds please
23:19 Shara        I'd rather that than some random kiddies griefing them or claiming them
23:26 paramat      if protection is removed a build will almost certainly be messed with. if a build is good it deserves protection whether the builder is around or not -> transfer protection to admin
23:27 ChimneySwift if protection is causing lag then the protection mod is bad, there should be no reason to remove protection
23:30 IhrFussel    Not every server has 100,000+ accounts like mine
23:31 IhrFussel    So on most servers with less accounts the protections are no problem with 'areas'
23:32 IhrFussel    Or if the server either disables self protection or sets the limit per player to something very low (I think default is 4)
23:32 IhrFussel    I set my limit to 10 per player
23:33 IhrFussel    And if a player reaches those 10 I review their best build and when I think it's somewhat creative I give them +40 protections
23:33 IhrFussel    Some long term players already reached the limit of 50! So I had to add yet another priv to allow 100
23:35 IhrFussel    I'd say there are well over 5,000 protections on my server ... many of them are wasted cause players don't know how to protected properly and waste their 10 protections on different rows of their houses instead of asking staff to help
23:37 IhrFussel    If I find something very special on the map and see it has no protection then I reprotect it of course... or if I find such a build before the protection is deleted
23:37 IhrFussel    But it's not easy to find these...usually it happens by accident when I fly over the map to explore
23:40 IhrFussel    I could maybe also find another way to keep the protections low ... like deleting ones of app users who didn't join for a few months only
23:40 IhrFussel    Cause the apps they use change their name/password regularly and many cannot access their old names anymore and have to use a new one
23:41 IhrFussel    I read that daily 'it's me blahblah, my app gave me a new name'
23:49 paramat      100,000+ ... it always amazes and impresses me how admin manage to cope with a public server =)
23:50 IhrFussel    Well...probably more like 30,000 when I think about the IPs that have 10 or more names cause of their app
23:50 IhrFussel    I mean probably 30,000 unique people