Time Nick Message 00:10 Sokomine aerozoic: afaik krock ran his server for quite some time on an old laptop. it worked fine. a pi might be sufficient for a creative server with not too many complex mods 00:20 aerozoic Watching with the top command, my server is bouncing between 5 and 30% with an i7 4.0ghz cpu. 01:17 rubenwardy https://i.redd.it/j29xd9yo0tb11.jpg 08:32 tenplus1 hi folks 08:32 tenplus1 hi diamond :P 08:33 tenplus1 PigIron updated to 0.4: Bronze and Steel tool_capabilities switched since steel is much stronger irl 08:33 IcyDiamond hey tenplus1 08:33 IcyDiamond my server had decided it wants to reboot overnight 08:33 IcyDiamond xD 08:33 tenplus1 ouch, did your server have an autostart script ? 08:33 IcyDiamond no 08:34 tenplus1 double ouch 08:34 IcyDiamond fsr my services didn't start 08:34 IcyDiamond so i couldn't even access my server 08:34 IcyDiamond cuz i run the dns on it 08:34 IcyDiamond had to look up the ip 08:34 IcyDiamond XD 08:37 tenplus1 in need of a little fiddling for services to startup next time :PP 10:31 tenplus1 hi raven 10:37 Raven262 Hi ten 10:37 tenplus1 hi CWz 10:37 tenplus1 o/ 10:38 entuland o/ 10:38 CWz Ello 10:38 tenplus1 updated PigIron mod, bronze and steel tools have switched strengths since steel is much stronger irl :P 10:52 tenplus1 hi twoelk 10:52 twoelk o/ 10:53 tenplus1 o/=== <-- holding pizza box 10:54 twoelk am just trying to figure out a batch to reset the source origin of folders full of github clones that have since fled github :-P 10:55 tenplus1 ahh 10:56 tenplus1 a task in itself 10:56 twoelk for mod collections now on different git services this is not much fun 10:56 tenplus1 all of mine are on notabug.org, so you would only have to replace github.com to notabug.org in the git clone section 11:00 twoelk yeah, luckily I indeeed do have a tenplus1 folder from which I will then copy individuall mods to other locations 11:02 twoelk I guess for individuall mod collections I'll just have to invest more time - the time you spend do keep kids/players happy 11:02 tenplus1 still think it'd be handy for all git sites to be able to fork/link to one another 11:03 twoelk don't know how that would work though, might need a central name/nick database to avoid duplicates 11:04 tenplus1 true 11:05 tenplus1 coffee time :P 11:08 * twoelk tries to drink more water than coffee on hot days 11:08 tenplus1 drinking a warm.hot drink cools you down more ;D 11:16 twoelk except the amount one drinks on hot days might be a tad too much coffein :-D 11:17 twoelk I guess I do drink too much coffee in relation to any other liquid anyways 11:17 tenplus1 cause coffee rocks :DD 11:18 twoelk hmm, chewing roasted coffee beans - I love to do that 11:18 tenplus1 ooh, choccy covered coffee beans are nice 11:22 tenplus1 hrm, might add those to farming redo actually :D 11:27 entuland === === 11:27 entuland \o/ 11:27 entuland two pizzas 11:27 tenplus1 hi entuland 11:27 tenplus1 ooh, expert level :D 11:27 entuland :) 11:29 twoelk what effect would choco coffee beans have? bouncing around instead of walking? 11:29 tenplus1 lol, slight speed boost and lower fov due to concentration on the spot 11:33 tenplus1 could add pova support and add .01 speed for a minute :D 11:37 tenplus1 hi Krock 11:37 Krock hi tenplus1 11:37 tenplus1 o/ 11:37 tenplus1 got the bronze <-> steel tools to switch capabilities ok :P 11:38 Krock already seen the forum post 11:38 tenplus1 ehehe 11:39 tenplus1 good to know almost anything can be overriden on startup 11:40 tenplus1 hi aerozoic 11:42 tenplus1 what sorta things will be backported from 0.5 to 0.4.16-3 ? 11:42 aerozoic hi tenplus1 11:58 Krock huh? this seems incorrect https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=326743#p326743 11:59 Krock they're not "next to each other". it's a different mentality 11:59 tenplus1 hi fussel 12:00 tenplus1 and yeah Krock, something seem soff 12:00 tenplus1 *seems off 12:00 Krock however, that image is from wikipedia 12:00 tenplus1 lol, wiki isn't always right 12:01 IhrFussel Hi there^^ Don't you go a bit too far on xanadu regarding banning of players for silly/no reasons? From what I read in the forum post the player shares their IP with a sibling and got banned for "multi account use" with no way of proving they are separate people 12:02 tenplus1 fussel, what you read on the forum isnt always what happens, admin ban/limit people for a reason 12:03 IhrFussel For a silly reason often...this is not the first time I saw someone complaining about your rules 12:03 IhrFussel Maybe you should consider to be more fair towardas players 12:03 IhrFussel towards* 12:04 IhrFussel Or the admin rather 12:05 IhrFussel He already joined my server once and said "who are you to tell me how to run my server" pretty immature statement 12:05 tenplus1 Shinji'a word is final, he owns server 12:05 IhrFussel No IRC, no forum account, no way of contacting him outside the game it seems...bad practice IMO 12:06 tenplus1 he doesn't want anyone contacting him 12:06 IhrFussel Then he is bad admin 12:06 tenplus1 forum is there which I check daily if anything crops up 12:07 tenplus1 and you will find that players tend to complain even after there was justified reason to kick/ban them 12:07 IhrFussel That's normal but sometimes his reasoning is beyond ridiculous 12:07 tenplus1 you can look back in the forum and find people pleading innocence until many ppl believe them, then the actual screenshots of what they said/did crop up and they disappear... 12:07 IhrFussel Quite a few people already told me how he hadnles certain cases 12:08 IhrFussel handles* 12:09 IhrFussel My players mostly say good things about you, but not about the server owner 12:10 tenplus1 he plays on server but doesnt suffer fools... 12:12 IhrFussel He acts like a child at times 12:12 IhrFussel From what stories I hear 12:12 tenplus1 he's really an ok guy, just doesnt like players complaining/arguing 12:13 IhrFussel Of course he is *allowed* to act however he wants but then he must live with the backlash 12:14 IhrFussel And you don't find it weird that the server owners avoids any kind of communication outside the game? No way to send a complaint about something? 12:14 IhrFussel owner* 12:15 tenplus1 he has a busy life fussel and can't always be into the game itself, that's why I'm here 12:16 IhrFussel My question is why is he the owner of a server but only appears on his server and neither on IRC/forums/xanadu website (if exists) 12:17 IhrFussel To me it looks like "if i ban someone then i don't wanna deal with complaints no matter tzhe ban reason" 12:17 IhrFussel "everything i do is right and the world has to accept what i say because it is just right" 12:18 tenplus1 the fact he runs a server and keeps it up and running connected to a ups is more than enough, and I'm here to deal with everything else 12:19 IhrFussel NO, it takes more than keeping a server running to be a good server owner...he is a joke in my eyes no matter how long he paid for the server, he doesn't take responsibility for it 12:20 ThomasMonroe who are we talking about? 12:20 tenplus1 hi thomas 12:20 ThomasMonroe o/ 12:21 IhrFussel ThomasMonroe, Mr server owner of xanadu 12:24 IhrFussel To be clear: I don't expect from a "good server owner" to be online daily and talk to every player about everything ... but accepting critique/suggestions/complaints is required if you want to offer a public server...don't just put up a MT instance and do wahtever you want, that is NOT how you run a good server 12:25 IcyDiamond i cant start minetest server 12:25 IcyDiamond ./bin/minetestserver: /lib64/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.8' not found (required by ./bin/minetestserver) 12:25 IhrFussel I avoid ANY server that has something along the lines of "what staff says is final, don't try to fight it" 12:25 IcyDiamond although it built just fine 12:25 tenplus1 IcyDiamond: did you try: minetest --server 12:26 IcyDiamond i dont have minetest binary cuz i built just server 12:26 tenplus1 ohh, 0.5 or 0.4.17? 12:26 IcyDiamond 5.0 12:27 tenplus1 the scarey build 12:27 Krock are you sure that you didn't do a distro upgrade in between? 12:27 IcyDiamond i just built it.. 12:28 Krock https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23494103/version-cxxabi-1-3-8-not-found-required-by/23494975#23494975 12:32 Krock maybe the cmake params are outdated 12:43 CWz Ello 12:43 tenplus1 o/ 12:47 xerox123 o/ o/ 12:51 tenplus1 hi xerox 12:52 Krock hi CWz. xerox123 12:55 sfan5 IcyDiamond: your minetest binary expects a different version of libstdc++ that you have installed 12:55 sfan5 which pretty much only happens if you downgrade packages after building or transfer a built binary from a different machine 12:56 BillyS \o/ 12:56 tenplus1 hi sfan, hey billy 13:00 BillyS hi tenplus1 13:00 BillyS My mod is a success! 13:00 BillyS https://github.com/Billy-S/knockout 13:02 tenplus1 omg! lol, that is so funny :) knocking out players and carrying them around like a handbag :D 13:02 BillyS yep. xD 13:02 Calinou be sure to add a license :) 13:02 Calinou https://choosealicense.com/ 13:02 BillyS It took a lot of messing with entities to get it to work 13:02 BillyS Imma go with the Apache 2.0 13:03 Calinou most mods use the MIT license now 13:03 Calinou (it is compatible with Minetest's license, unlike Apache 2) 13:03 BillyS ah 13:05 BillyS hmmm 13:06 BillyS maybe GNU General Public License v2? 13:06 Calinou if you want to pick the same license as Minetest, use the LGPLv2.1 or later 13:06 Calinou https://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl-2.1.html 13:06 BillyS Nah, I'm just trying to find a licsense I like 13:07 tenplus1 how about: WTFPL 13:07 Calinou (make sure to add an "or later" clause in the license notice, which you should add at the top of all your source files) 13:07 BillyS lol 13:07 BillyS Heck, Ill just got with MIT 13:08 tenplus1 :P 13:09 BillyS I don't want people stealing my code and making it propritary 13:09 BillyS That's my main reason I don't like WTFPL 13:09 tenplus1 I tend to use MIT for things like that 13:10 BillyS Hmmm 13:10 BillyS My knockout mod should have some was to jail players 13:10 BillyS It's ment for PK, after all 13:10 BillyS But I'd have to make it so that the player can escape somehow 13:13 rubenwardy There are potential issues with GPL for mods 13:13 tenplus1 there are ? 13:13 rubenwardy Another mod can't depend on it without being GPL itself 13:13 rubenwardy Potentially 13:14 rubenwardy Not sure if that counts as linking 13:15 rubenwardy Yeah, quick Google looks like people agree 13:15 rubenwardy There's also the issue of a GPL mod polluting the minetest namespace 13:15 BillyS ah bleh 13:16 BillyS Everyone should agree on one license to use 13:17 * tenplus1 always uses MIT license now 13:17 rubenwardy LGPLv2.1+ 13:17 rubenwardy Well 13:17 rubenwardy Or MIT 13:20 rud0lf TANZ MIT MIR 13:20 tenplus1 o/ rud0lf 13:20 rud0lf o/ tenplus1 13:26 tenplus1 hi DI3HARD139 13:26 DI3HARD139 hello 13:47 tenplus1 wb Krock 13:47 Krock ty 13:48 tenplus1 lol, we have a player called Xanadu_News who finds out what's going on and makes a bulletin board for players :) hah 13:49 rud0lf nice 13:49 rud0lf "Strange creature found near coal mines!" 13:49 rud0lf "Citizens are thrilled to let kids play alone!" 13:49 tenplus1 for a survival world it's great how players work together to make things like this, and public farms etc 13:49 Krock "life found on mars. it's sam" 13:50 tenplus1 "Sam's face found in a door in Texas" 13:53 tenplus1 wb Megaf 13:57 tenplus1 wb entuland 13:58 entuland o/* 13:58 entuland that's a cupcake 13:58 rud0lf at your armpit? 13:58 tenplus1 o/* looks just like my starfruit 13:59 entuland sure, doesn't everybody carry them under the armpit just like baguettes in france? 13:59 tenplus1 keeops them warm ::PPP 14:00 entuland :) 14:01 tenplus1 o/ 14:01 Krock ree 14:02 Krock no idea why it happened but my system froze completely 14:02 tenplus1 winblows or linux ??? 14:04 IhrFussel entities still get removed when the attached player logs off ... for cars with 2 seats even if just the passenger loses connection the car is gone 14:04 tenplus1 ouch 14:06 entuland 60MPH on rough gravel... tough landing 14:06 IhrFussel Happened in 0.4 backport from Dec already and now in 0.4.17.1 ... can someone check on other servers? Just join, enter a cart (or other attachable entity) and reconnect, then see if the entity is gone 14:07 Krock tenplus1: linux. it experienced a crash when I fired the computer up from sleep mode 14:08 Krock all apps were closed anyway.. a bit suspicious 14:08 tenplus1 ahh, something not enabling properly from sleep 14:10 Krock xorg had a crash, then ubuntu said something about "oopsie whoopsie a crash happened". however, I could compile most of Minetest until it froze 14:11 tenplus1 I uninstall whoopsie and the crash handler... is more annoying than anything 14:18 IhrFussel What the heck happens on my server right now...player count went from 15 to 45 in matter of minutes 14:19 tenplus1 rush hour 14:20 Krock classes finished 14:20 tenplus1 Shara: are abritorches suppose to be hot / able to start fires ??? 14:20 xerox123 oh shit, IhrFussel. are they all guests? 14:20 Krock The Great Rush Of Kids 14:20 tenplus1 Guest007 :P dun du dun dun dun dun dun 14:20 xerox123 just noticed the rush of guests that tried to join 14:21 xerox123 on my server ^ 14:22 DI3HARD139 Good sir. Is the wonderful tool of yours public? 14:22 DI3HARD139 this* 14:22 Krock indeed a flood of guests 14:23 xerox123 DI3HARD139: yeah, mod called no_guests, but I added another regex pattern I saw in the forum thread and a Krock tweak to exempt myself from the pattern 14:23 tenplus1 good idea 14:23 DI3HARD139 No I mean the web control panel 14:24 xerox123 o 14:28 ANAND Is it possible to rotate a wield-item to make it point forward? 14:29 Krock rotate the inventory image 14:30 IhrFussel Map loads slow again, no stalling (yet) 14:30 ANAND Krock, do you mean the wield_image? I specified different inventory and wield images :) 14:30 Krock increase your simultaneous block sends 14:31 Krock ah, wield image then 14:31 ANAND ok thanks! 14:33 IhrFussel Is 10 not enough? 14:34 xerox123 for all those people, no 14:34 tenplus1 wb raven 14:35 Krock per client: 40. total: somewhere 300 maybe 14:35 Raven262 ty ten 14:35 Krock or even 400 total 14:41 ANAND The position field of an HUD element can take values from 0 to 1. So to centre an element on the screen, should I go with {x = 0.5, y = 0.5}? 14:42 tenplus1 yeh 14:42 ANAND Alright, I'll try it out 14:43 ANAND It works :D 14:43 tenplus1 yay 14:44 ANAND Is it possible to hide all the hud elements by removing them one-by-one using :hud_remove() with their IDs? 14:45 tenplus1 I think HUD has an actual visible flag 14:45 ANAND I'm planning on displaying one HUD element and hiding the rest while it's visible 14:47 ANAND So I could manually get the defs of all the other hud elements using :hud_get() 14:47 ANAND Store them, and then :hud_remove() them 14:48 ANAND But where do I get the IDs of all of a player's hud elements? :S 14:49 ANAND Whoa, the Travis-CI build was running for 26 minutes! Is it just me or is Travis taking way too long nowadays? 14:50 tenplus1 so much has been added prolly 14:51 tenplus1 ANAND: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/players/hud.html 14:51 rubenwardy Btw 14:51 rubenwardy !book hud 14:51 MinetestBot rubenwardy: HUD - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/ 14:51 rubenwardy Oh noes 14:51 Krock fail 14:51 rubenwardy That's the wrong URL 14:51 rubenwardy Oops 14:52 rubenwardy Looks like I broke it 14:52 tenplus1 heh, hi ruben 14:53 ANAND lol 14:55 tenplus1 o/ paramat 14:55 ANAND That page still doesn't help me with getting the IDs of all of a player's HUD elements :/ 14:55 rubenwardy You can't 14:55 rubenwardy Why do you need to? 14:55 ANAND I'm planning on displaying one HUD element and hiding the others while it's visible 14:56 tenplus1 check out wuzzy's hudbars for information on usage and how to hide 14:56 ANAND Will do, thx 15:03 tenplus1 hi tumeninodes 15:04 tumeninodes Hi tenplus1 15:04 tenplus1 whassup tumeni ? 15:04 tumeninodes license loonies 15:04 tenplus1 oh, what happened ? 15:05 rubenwardy !book hud 15:05 MinetestBot rubenwardy: HUD - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/players/hud.html 15:05 rubenwardy There we are 15:05 tumeninodes I was just looking over all the license threads popping up 15:06 tenplus1 scarey huh 15:06 tumeninodes unfortunately many do not seem to understand licensing in the first place 15:06 ANAND Aha, I guess just hiding the default hud bars and hot-bar is enough for me... ;) 15:07 ANAND rubenwardy: I see an extra '/' in the URL :) 15:07 tumeninodes then come the radical this ways, and the radical that ways 15:08 rubenwardy Yeah, can't fix this cleanly now 15:09 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=20578 15:09 MinetestBot rubenwardy: The use of GPL mods - Minetest Forums 15:11 tumeninodes existential GPL 15:12 tumeninodes so from now on, when node defs are modified, have a popup screen which rolls credits :D 15:13 tumeninodes but do it like star wars opening with scrolling text and bg music 15:15 tenplus1 lol 15:17 tenplus1 hi fixer 15:17 Fixer hi 15:26 Calinou rubenwardy: I would argue that it's akin to dynamic linking since the user is able to replace the other part 15:26 Calinou the LGPL *does* allow static linking to proprietary software, but the user needs to be able to replace the library. 15:26 rubenwardy Does GPL actually have a dynamic linking exception? 15:26 rubenwardy This isn't about LGPL 15:26 rubenwardy That's obviously fine 15:26 Calinou there are two ways to achieve this: 1) distribute the object code (.o) files, 2) release the source (even under a restrictive license) 15:31 tumeninodes just add a sub license 15:32 Fixer Jeeez 15:32 Fixer debian has apt now? 15:33 tumeninodes A sub license can be granted to a third party to extend usage exceptions, even under an NC license 15:33 Fixer it was apt-get, then aptitude, then it was kinda WTF, and then it is apt? 15:33 benrob0329 Hi tenplus1 15:34 benrob0329 Autogreeter on the fritz today? :P 15:34 tumeninodes a sub license can be granted for any restrictive license, by the license holder 15:34 tenplus1 hi benrob0329 15:34 tenplus1 ehehe, we had a tardis competition on xanadu earlier :D 15:35 tumeninodes pimp my tardis? 15:35 tenplus1 yup 15:35 tumeninodes haha 15:35 benrob0329 Oh cool, wish I could've been there :D 15:35 tenplus1 got some blue carpet and a homedecor cube light and made an awesome one with a toilet inside D 15:36 benrob0329 I think I might have been able to impress, I have some experience :P 15:36 tumeninodes should've used the lava lamp 15:36 tenplus1 hah yeah 15:36 tenplus1 wait, we dont have that... ahaha, homedecor mod we run is LITE 15:36 tumeninodes a little poo-zen 15:37 tenplus1 ever noticed how cooked rat looks just like a poo ?!/! 15:37 tumeninodes dude..., I just ate 15:37 benrob0329 It does doesn't it.. 15:37 tenplus1 lol, sorry tumeninodes 15:38 tumeninodes s'ok, my rat didn't look like poo 15:38 tumeninodes afk for a few 15:42 tenplus1 back in a bit... food calls :D 15:53 * Sokomine melts away due to the heat and searches for an ice biome 15:55 tumeninodes hi Sokomine. Freezers make nice ice biomes 15:56 * Sokomine climbs into one and closes the door behind her 15:56 tumeninodes So, my comments about sub license has nothing to do with what rubenwardy and Calinou were talking about btw :D 15:58 tumeninodes I think, IMO, NC-type licenses could be allowed, as long as they offer a sub license, which is specific 15:59 tumeninodes meaning to grant permissions to use the works for the purposes of related youtube reviews on a monetized channel 16:00 tumeninodes basically the license holder is paying a small advertising fee to the reviewer (usually, extremely small fee under youtubes' payout scale) 16:02 tumeninodes MT/MTG related 'commercial use' mostly falls under works shown on youtube anyway. And the basis of NC still stands in any usage, outside of that factor 16:03 tumeninodes ND though, does not fit into the entire MT/MTG environment, so I strongly agree with that being disallowed 16:04 Sokomine trouble is that the distinction between "commercial" and "non-commercial" as applied by courts does not reflect what one might commonly expect 16:05 tumeninodes There is nothing wrong with an individual wishing to protect from others using their work for a substantial, capital gain 16:05 tumeninodes but a court does have to follow the wording of a license 16:06 Sokomine yes. but substantial, capital gain..that's not what courts seem to think of 16:06 tumeninodes but the wording has to be put in use in a proper manner 16:09 tumeninodes The license holder only need state a use exception. But to be quite specific 16:09 tumeninodes other than that exception, the NC clause holds firm 16:11 Calinou tumeninodes: that's not what sublicensing is about 16:11 Calinou sublicensing is allowed by permissive licenses, but is not allowed by copyleft licenses 16:11 Calinou by the way, the NC clause has many exceptions that most people don't seem to be aware of :) 16:12 Calinou for instance, it's allowed to sell a NC-licensed work to cover the costs of distribution/shipping/handling 16:12 Calinou (as long as the cost only does that, and is not intended to create a profit) 16:12 Calinou recent versions (4.0 especially) have more exceptions than older ones 16:12 tumeninodes sub license - a license or contract granted to a third party by a licensee for specified rights or uses of a product, brand name, logo, etc. 16:14 tumeninodes that is my understanding of the definition of sun license 16:14 tumeninodes it gives the license holder, power to grant special rights, for specific usage 16:15 Sokomine as long as it's your own work you can grant diffrent licenses to diffrent people the way you want 16:16 tumeninodes but, this is why I feel NC licenses should actually be allowed. 16:16 tumeninodes ND has no place in the community though, 16:18 tumeninodes Calinou, I know you definitely have a better grasp on licensing, than myself. It would be nice if you would take a moment and make a post related to the topic. As it seems licensing concerns are popping up all over lately 16:20 tumeninodes Sokomine, I don;t believe you can grant a diff license to various people, only exceptions within the chosen license 16:22 tumeninodes but wait..., ALL CC licenses are 'copyleft' 16:22 sfan5 rubenwardy: the server list uses 2 worker threads 16:23 sfan5 the code starts a separate thread to handle announces though, so request don't (shouldn't) block 16:23 sfan5 requests* 16:24 tumeninodes sorry, only the SA are copyleft, my bad 16:26 rubenwardy Pretty sure you can sublicense a GPL work, if you own all the rights 16:26 rubenwardy Like, license to someone under something other than GPL 16:26 tumeninodes SO, a BY-NC-SA, is not allowed to have exceptions? Even if they are related only to the NC clause? 16:27 tumeninodes rubenwardy, that sounds like it could cause some confusion/complications down the road. 16:27 rubenwardy Probably 16:28 tumeninodes So if you have a work under GPL, yet you release it to someone else, under a different license 16:28 rubenwardy I'm pretty sure there are some projects that do this - use a copyleft license but then offer a permissive license to be purchased 16:28 tumeninodes now there are two of the same work under two licenses... 16:29 rubenwardy That's what sublicensing is though? 16:29 tumeninodes well yeh, but that is normally used as a gimmick 16:29 Sokomine we could need something that covers what you want. it's not too dissimilar from what i'd like. just something like that (yes, people using it on servers is no problem, even when asking for donations, youtubers are no problem in general, normal webpages are not...but if a more significant amount of money is gained with it it isn't ok anymore) 16:29 tumeninodes though I am not sure offering a free trial which is a portion of a licensed work is the same thing 16:31 tumeninodes Sokomine, those are 'exceptions' 16:31 tumeninodes But I think Calinou is saying they are not allowed when SA clause is involved as well? 16:32 tumeninodes which honestly does not make sense to me but... 16:33 tumeninodes my cousin is a lawyer for a huge company, I'll have to ask him to look into this next time I see him 16:36 Sokomine when NC is involved, people may still ask you for a more permissive license. wasn't there something about people abusing that some time ago? 16:37 tumeninodes SA itself is non-negotiable, I think. But NC is allowed exceptions, as stated. If exceptions are allowed for NC, then that means they are still allowed, even when combined with the SA clause 16:38 tumeninodes More permissive 'exceptions' would be more appropriate 16:38 tumeninodes not entirely relicensing 16:40 tumeninodes and... while on the topic... ALL work under CC-BY-SA 3.0 should be updated to 4.0. WHich is allowed as it is only upgrading to the latest version, I do not believe permission is required by original authors 16:40 twoelk I guess choosing the right license will have to become the first course in any creativity teaching in the future 16:40 tumeninodes the license, itself is not being changed, just the updated 16:40 tumeninodes twoelk... it really should be part of the curriculum 16:41 twoelk want to become an artist? go to law school first 16:41 tumeninodes ha 16:43 twoelk inb4 all schools start with a year of law first 16:44 tumeninodes paramat, what do you think? Wanna go through and update all the CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0? :D 16:45 paramat no :D 16:45 tumeninodes party pooper 16:45 twoelk it really is somewhat difficult telling kids that they may not create any derivates of their favorite heroes or storys or random toys once they start to get creative 16:46 tumeninodes it's easy..., well if you enjoy watching kids cry... which I do, so... 16:46 tumeninodes "D 16:47 twoelk minetest mods are actually full of fan art - big grey zone out there 16:47 tumeninodes very true 16:48 tumeninodes well I gotta go get ready for an appointment \o 16:51 twoelk my nephews once added some yellow minion related nodes to our private mt-game aka Apfelschorle. When I challanged them to add something original they had to think up themselves they went somewhat ... blank. their point wasn't coding something cool but simply adding minions. coding was just the way to get it done 17:06 paramat > "I avoid ANY server that has something along the lines of "what staff says is final, don't try to fight it"" i would avoid any server without that. that rule is essential to avoid endless KGM-type tantrums, just look at the forum threads. only server owners can have the final decision, no-one else can 17:07 Calinou any license can be negotiated with its copyright holder(s) :) 17:08 sfan5 paramat: why isn't he avoiding the forums then? 17:11 paramat well, actually i mean 'reduce' not 'avoid' 17:15 paramat and i mean 'on server', the forum is just an example of how bad the arguing is :) 17:16 rubenwardy He doesn't do much of that on my server 17:16 IhrFussel Every server owner should give players the option to "file a complaint" when they think they have been punished for a wrong/no reason 17:16 rubenwardy Just joins to spam his broken cheat 17:17 IhrFussel The implementation of that can vary from server to server...PM in forum, message in IRC, email etc 17:18 paramat file a complaint to who though? the admins who just decided? EU court of human rights? :) 17:18 rubenwardy A moderator could have made the decision 17:21 paramat yeah. but players usually already have a way to dispute a decision 17:22 paramat as said, tenplus is there for that 17:28 twoelk still IhrFussel at some point there is a final decision and no quarantee that the player in distress accepts it - some will just go on fighting 17:28 paramat so then the moderator and admin will discuss and the admin will reassess and make a final decision, and we're back to the same rule again :) 17:28 paramat yep 17:30 paramat the impression i get is that Ihr is actually a worse server admin than most for being too soft, but also preaches a lot about others being worse :) 17:30 IhrFussel You should provide the player simply a way to let you know "hey i think i was punished in error" then you should re-read what happened (in case it wasn't you (owner)) and decide whether or not the ban was fine 17:30 Shara Every so often someone joins #minetest moaning that x server banned them but boohoo they are innocent and the admin/moderator/goldfish who happened to have the ban priv is evil and mean 17:31 Shara It's happened with RC bans before... and the player is asking for the IRC channel which is invite only... so they can try and join and spam us out 17:32 IhrFussel That's not what I mean Shara ... I'm not talking about those crybabies that just can't accept that they broke rules and got punished for it...I'm talking about cases where it may not be as black and white and the staff/violating player need to meet somewhere in the middle 17:32 Shara And I am pretty sure there are people who have believed those players and they now think that I / my moderators / my non-existent pet goldfish are evil and mean 17:32 Shara Fussel, it is exactly what you mean even if you can't say it. 17:32 Shara see* 17:33 Shara You are choosing to think the player is truthful and the admin is not. 17:36 IhrFussel No, I respect every player and I thought that's the general opinion with server owners...and if I respect every player then every player got the equal rights on my server and staff is *not* above players so if staff did something wrong then I of course reconsider what the staff did and might undo the punishment 17:37 * twoelk has a second identity on quite a few servers just to get himself out of protected holes he fell into in the dark 17:39 twoelk and I do often share an IP with others - most don't have an individuell router for everyone in every house or place they go online at 17:40 Shara Fussel: ultimate issue is no one can police the admin (unless they do something that is actually illegal... and then the police can :P) 17:41 Shara You can decide what you think player rights on all servers should be, but actually it's the server owner who decide what a player's rights are (again, so long as it's not literally illegal somehow) 17:41 Shara decides* 17:43 IhrFussel twoelk, and would you be fine with being banned cause "you have more than 1 account" without any way to give some sort of feedback or get the chance to prove that you're separate persons? 17:44 IhrFussel my issue with the xanadu server owner is mainly that he doesn't give banned players a way to talk to him about what happened...cause he has no forum account, no (known) IRC account, no website...nothing 17:44 IhrFussel He is basically isolated from the world in his xanadu bubble 17:47 twoelk he has a tenplus1 :-D 17:48 Shara Does that make it okay to constantly insult how someone else's server is managed? 17:50 sofar can we keep the server/admin drama on each respective server, perhaps? 17:51 paramat Ihr tenplus deals with that and can talk to the owner, and probably does, why imply otherwise? 17:53 IhrFussel So you don't see what's wrong with no direct way of communication between players and server owners...then it#s no use to discuss any further with you...seems like our views are galaxies apart 17:54 Shara Got to agree with sofar really... (hi sofar!) 17:57 paramat Ihr i just said, there is tenplus who probably talks with the owner about situations. you're implying a lot 17:59 paramat erm, talking generally, i think it's fine for a server owner to not want to communicate with anyone except other admin. personally i couldn't cope with ranting kids :) 18:09 twoelk after all - minimal admin interaction servers have been a quite popular experiment and some managed quite well - for some time at least 18:10 sfan5 i count at least 3 anarchy servers 18:11 twoelk well, anarchy isn't the only form and by far not the best 18:11 IhrFussel 1 more message regardung this topic: Shinji_Ikari in case you read the IRC logs I invite you to my server and then we can discuss how you handle/manage your server and how I handle/manage mine 18:11 IhrFussel regarding* 18:11 paramat i was actually contacted privately by a player on Ihr's server who told me that Ihr is too soft on troublemakers and this was affecting other player's enjoyment ;) 18:11 twoelk oops 18:13 twoelk I di think though IhrFussel can manage his server just as he pleases and in turn has to accept that others may also do exactly that 18:13 IhrFussel You cannot please everybody, but I rather act nice and reasonable than being an asshole towards my players and punishing them (too heavy) for something they might not even have done in the first place 18:14 twoelk be carefull with all the being nice to players that you don't act like an ... to fellow server admins :-D 18:15 IhrFussel My server got a /feedback and a /report ... I really offer MANY ways to communicate with me... offline messages exist too and mailboxes for books...players can tell me their opinion as much as they like 18:15 twoelk giving interesting advice on difficult issues is nice but don't become a fanatic missionary 18:16 IhrFussel Players may critize my actions or suggest changes...that is no crime on my server and encouraged 18:16 Sokomine paramat: ihrfussel is a fine server admin and does well :-) so does shara. and vanessea of course has proven to be a very good server admin for a long time 18:17 * twoelk desperately needs some time to do some extensive server touring again 18:17 shivajiva having a reputation as a pushover is as bad as having a reputation for being over zealous, both attract different kinds of trolls and different levels of damage. Is this some kind of competition? 18:17 Sokomine Shara: ah, well, i'm afraid the earth would be heavily overpopulated if all those claimed siblings that are blamed with having done griefing (back in mc days) would actually exist :-) 18:18 Shara Sokomine: yup :) 18:18 IhrFussel I never said that I'm on some kind of "mission" to convince server owners to change/be like me... All I did was kinda ranting about a certain server owner who is unreachable for the average player and instead sends tenplus1 to deal with the complaints 18:19 shivajiva you should join Xanadu and have a conversation with shinji rather than disrespect someone not present to defend themselves imo 18:20 * twoelk largest group visit to a mt server, some 3 years ago was 7 players, all sitting at the same table, was fun, though hard on the connection 18:20 shivajiva that's what I did 18:20 Sokomine IhrFussel: no :-) your views are close together. at least as far as what you consider "right". you just want a formal law 18:20 IhrFussel Do you actually really think that he would DISCUSS with another server owner who critizises him for his actions? 18:21 IhrFussel He resides in his bubble for a reason and I thought that was obvious 18:21 twoelk you would have to change some of your tone 18:22 shivajiva that's my point, don't criticize before you have the facts, you lost the ability to have a discourse because you didn't go ask Shinji before making a fuss 18:23 Sokomine twoelk: server touring is a lot of fun. there are diffrent mods to explore and diffrent textures to build with. that's why i'm so often not on those servers where i like the way of administration most. just...curiosity 18:23 IhrFussel I offered him indirectly earlier to come to my server where nobody gets kicked/banned for critique ... there's nothing else I can do..either he accepts my invitation or he ignores it 18:23 shivajiva how magnanimous of you 18:23 benrob0329 To be honest, I dont find long-term builds and survival runs fun 18:24 benrob0329 But something like, that Tardis building contest Xanadu had would have been fun 18:24 paramat after all the preaching i doubt anyone would want to discuss server management with you ;) 18:24 Sokomine IhrFussel: it's not bad for xanandu if tenplus1 does the communication with the rest of the world. i don't know if and to what degree he does. i think shinji could profit from talking to other server admins from time to time (as we all can) but maybe he doesn't have the time 18:27 twoelk IhrFussel: could you really accept if he just sticks to his ways? I fear you would keep on argueing until you get annoying 18:27 Sokomine i've even myself accidently rollbacked a player on one of vanessaes servers. his actions looked like griefing...but he was just a child :-(. we're all prone to errors 18:28 * twoelk remembers that one 18:29 IhrFussel paramat, you don't even play on my server you have absolutely NO CLUE what work I've done on my server whatsoever... you also have no clue about the "level of respect" my players pay me ... I can manage my server just fine and if yu don't believe it I'm sorry, but I want to show the strict server owners that it's NOT required for a server owner to be an asshole 18:30 IhrFussel You can earn respect in other ways than being GOD 18:30 sofar stop it 18:30 * benrob0329 feels that this may be going on a bit long now 18:31 sofar that's enough already 18:31 sofar next topic, please 18:33 * twoelk is now going to test looping through folders with git remote set-url origin https://notabug.org/tenplus1/%.git 18:34 twoelk lol, that wasn't suposed to become a link in irc 18:34 * Sokomine secretly feels happy about there beeing so many server owners who do the work and take it seriously and secretly tries to convince sofar that less jumping might be better :) 18:34 twoelk no, serverhopping is cool ;-P 18:35 * twoelk should really try another box 18:35 Sokomine my update-git script gets stuck now in some repros as those have been moved. sometimes it's a simple replacement, but sometimes more hidden 18:36 benrob0329 Inb4 clustergit 18:36 paramat !next 18:36 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 18:38 twoelk that was unfair paramat :-D updating git clones has become quite an issue 18:41 benrob0329 https://github.com/mnagel/clustergit 18:44 twoelk hm, not really a solution 18:48 * twoelk moves his batchfile out of the testing zone 18:53 tenplus1 hi peeps 18:53 tenplus1 :P 18:53 Shara Hi tenplus1 18:54 tenplus1 hey shara :) 18:54 tenplus1 quick question, are abritorches meant to burn ? as in cause fires ? 18:54 Shara Hmm, not really. 18:54 tenplus1 was wondering, cause they are mostly crystal based 18:54 twoelk yay I just updated all my tenplus1 mods in one go 18:54 tenplus1 hi twoelk 18:55 twoelk o/ 18:55 Shara At least for the "correct" version (when using them with CRL...) they are meant to be kind of magical in nature 18:55 tenplus1 a player was using them and they melted ice/snow... had no idea they were meant to do that :D 18:56 twoelk now I just need to sort my hundreds of cloned mods according to the git-hosts they fled to 18:56 * tenplus1 calls in Esther Ranson to track down lost git-hosts 18:57 Shara Maybe something in groups? 18:57 tenplus1 could be the torch=1 group 18:58 tenplus1 makes abms think it's a normal torch :) 18:58 Shara Yea, probably you have something deciding that means things melt 19:03 BillyS I have a very wierd issue 19:03 BillyS My mod registers a globalstep, which displays a formspec to a player every second 19:04 BillyS But it doesn't display it if the player's hp is <= 0 19:04 BillyS However, when the player dies, they don't get the "You died" message 19:04 BillyS They just sortta get turned into a ghost 19:04 tenplus1 weird 19:05 BillyS If I remove the line that shows the formspec, it all works just fine ... 19:05 twoelk if anybody wants to do some batch comand to git folders this might be usefull -> https://pastebin.com/FZnFnvwK 19:05 tenplus1 wb aerozoic 19:06 aerozoic thx 19:09 BillyS ahhh I found the issue 19:09 tenplus1 kewl 19:09 tenplus1 Shara: updated ethereal, was using group:torch and told it not to :D 19:10 tenplus1 also toolrank support for crystal sword now :D 19:11 Shara Ohhhh 19:11 Shara I still want toolranks to add more than durability :D 19:12 tenplus1 oh it will, in 0.5.0 since we can dynamically change tool capabilities :) 19:12 tenplus1 we already have a tinkers mod like in mc to try it out :0 19:14 Shara Nice 19:15 Shara I really want something where you have a crafting skill level, and depending on that you can get modifiers on things you craft with different effects 19:18 tenplus1 I'd be happy with an enchanting table being able to finally change a tool specs live :) 19:41 tenplus1 nite all o/ 20:49 Sokomine Shara: adventuretest has such crafting skill levels to a degree. at the beginning, all crafted tools are already almost broken. it takes a high skill level to build a tool that will last for a while 20:49 Shara I'd like something a bit more flexable than just increased durability