Time  Nick        Message
00:23 IhrFussel   pos = pos, gain = 0.7, max_hear_distance = 5} << sound should only be heard max 5 nodes away from 'pos' correct?
00:32 paramat     only within 5 nodes on sound start
00:32 paramat     long sounds will be heard if you then move away
00:34 IhrFussel   That sound only got a duration of 1 sec and still ca  be heard thousands of nodes away
00:35 IhrFussel   WAIT a sec...I don't see pos anywhere defined
00:36 IhrFussel   Does MT play the sound everywhere if pos field is empty?
00:36 paramat     possibly
00:37 paramat     heh pos sibly
00:38 IhrFussel   Is the modder dumb? Uses pos without ever retrieving it via user:get_pos()
00:45 paramat     probably :)
00:53 IhrFussel   paramat, so did you test 0.4.17.1 yet regarding the bug? Or not yet?
00:56 IhrFussel   Need to leave now, reply via !tell if you want...see ya
00:58 paramat     !tell IhrFussel not yet. but see newly opened issue
00:58 MinetestBot paramat: I'll pass that on when IhrFussel is around
07:57 IcyDiamond  https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20532&p=326276#p326276
11:18 Krock       hi rdococ
12:33 CWz         The kids on my server went from playing house to playing domestic depute
12:33 CWz         what life is heading to, is unkown
12:34 Krock       screenshot! https://forum.minetest.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=15871
12:34 Krock       CWz: mood = math.random()
12:39 Shara       CWz: I thought it was like that on every server...
12:43 CWz         i mean as part of roleplay it was cringy as ... i don't know what to compare it to
12:45 CWz         If redcat server is Beverly hills, Bananaland would be some slum in Detroit
12:51 Shara       I simply don't allow roleplay
12:51 Shara       They still end up in weird fights with each other though
12:51 Shara       But I have heard stories about your server... :P
14:07 Sokomine    hmm. i wonder what makes my client give up on maikaumines sticks&stones server. it's definitely not server lag but client lag. no huge or strange textures to be seen...
14:08 Sokomine    even chaning view sight does not really make a difference. if i turn around it turns into a slideshow instead of beeing smooth
14:10 Sokomine    reminds me a lot of vanessaes spawn in that regard
15:46 Tenplus1    hi folks :)
15:46 Tenplus1    hi Krock
15:47 Krock       hi Tenplus1
15:47 Tenplus1    o/
15:56 Tenplus1    wb raven
15:56 Raven262    Ty ten
16:01 Tenplus1    hi diamond :P
16:11 Tenplus1    o/
16:20 IcyDiamond  Hey Tenplus1
16:21 IcyDiamond  How hard would it be to add the concept of "cameras" to minetest engine, like, use a viewport of some sort as a texture
16:21 MinetestBot IhrFussel: Jul-21 00:58 UTC <paramat> not yet. but see newly opened issue
16:21 Tenplus1    I think we have a camera mod already for recording flight paths etc
16:22 IcyDiamond  That's not what I mean
16:22 Tenplus1    hi fussel
16:22 IcyDiamond  I mean using a viewport as a texture
16:22 Tenplus1    so you see a camera view as a texture on another block ?
16:23 IcyDiamond  Yes
16:23 Tenplus1    ahh gotcha
16:23 IhrFussel   Hi there =) People don't seem to understand that MT doesn't compare passwords ... I think what MT checks is not even a password hash correct? (SRP)
16:23 IcyDiamond  This would allow for see-through portals and CCTV
16:24 Tenplus1    might have to be an entity where you can use multiple textures
16:24 IcyDiamond  Or entity behind/in a transparent/meshed node
16:24 Tenplus1    and texture itself would need to be dynamic
16:24 IhrFussel   In the German sub forum some are trying to create a "master auth service" but I doubt that it will work...maybe if they avoid the internal MT auth system and edit the auth file/DB manually via websites
16:25 IcyDiamond  See: FBOs of OpenGL
16:26 IhrFussel   Someone suggested to use MD5 for securing those passwords lol
16:26 red-001     IhrFussel, mods can replace the Auth system and I'm pretty sure est31 wrote a remote auth server quite some time ago
16:26 Tenplus1    if we had a way of reading/writing player attributes when they are offline then we could simplify the auth system and use player files instead
16:26 red-001     not sure if any server uses it rn
16:27 IhrFussel   red-001, but you cannot use SRP for a master auth system AFAIK ... that's why I said you need to avoid the internal auth
16:27 rubenwardy  Sure you can
16:27 red-001     sure you can
16:27 rubenwardy  Lol
16:27 rubenwardy  Srp works by having different constants
16:27 IhrFussel   But SRP doesn't use hashes that are the same across clients and servers
16:27 Tenplus1    hi ruben
16:27 sfan5       not from lua though, you'd need to change the core to "proxy" the authentication to a master server
16:28 rubenwardy  It doesn't, because different servers
16:28 rubenwardy  *constantd
16:28 Tenplus1    wb raven
16:28 Raven262    ty ten
16:29 IhrFussel   The only solution I see right now is: 1. create auth website 2. let people register and block access before they did that (maybe check if they have an account via files or something) 3. Edit auth file without MT (PHP, Python etc) 4. Allow access
16:30 red-001     you can just replace the Auth handler
16:31 red-001     like Sauth
16:31 red-001     or https://github.com/est31/share_login
16:31 IhrFussel   But can you replace SRP? I think not
16:32 red-001     why would you want to replace it?
16:32 red-001     it's a perfectly acceptable authentication protocol
16:33 IhrFussel   AFAIK there is no way (without editing c++ code) to send the SRP password of MT/website between website <-> MT
16:33 Tenplus1    I really dont want players to have to register on a site before playing on a server
16:34 red-001     IhrFussel, not sure what you mean...
16:35 IhrFussel   I mean can you just generate a SRP "hash" in a mod and it will be compatible?
16:36 rubenwardy  Yes
16:36 red-001     if it correctly implements SRP
16:36 rubenwardy  There's no reason to do that though
16:36 IhrFussel   Does lua have SRP support?
16:36 rubenwardy  That's a stupid question
16:36 red-001     I'm sure someone wrote an SRP implementation in Lua
16:36 rubenwardy  It's an algorithm
16:37 Tenplus1    ?
16:37 red-001     might be terrible slow but I'm sure it has been done
16:37 IhrFussel   Not stupid, only a few languages have it builtin IIRC
16:38 red-001     no language has it "builtin", it's just a protocol/algorithm
16:38 rubenwardy  It is a stupid question though
16:38 rubenwardy  To share passwords between servers you just want to have sauth but with postqesql
16:38 rubenwardy  Or some remote SQL server
16:38 red-001     ^
16:40 rubenwardy  C/c++ doesn't have builtin support for it
16:40 Tenplus1    IF player file was able to hold auth information you could link the players folder between servers and use same player info on each one
16:40 IhrFussel   I wouldn't trust someone who's not WELL-known in the community with something like writing a password algorithm
16:42 red-001     if you still want to have a website for the server, you can try using javascript SRP
16:42 IcyDiamond  a friend of mine asked why do some clearly client-side-implementable features apparently require priviledges? stuff like zoom and debug
16:43 IcyDiamond  privileges
16:43 IhrFussel   I don't want that, certain German people in the German subforum plan to do that https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20191 (German)
16:43 red-001     Mozilla wrote one for node.js
16:43 red-001     I'm sure you could fairly easily port that to in-browser javascript
16:44 sfan5       IcyDiamond: debug is essentially "seeing through walls", some server owners might not want players to be able to zoom
16:44 IcyDiamond  sfan5: but its client side, couldn't you just edit your client and do it anyway?
16:45 sfan5       of course
16:45 IcyDiamond  so i was right, it's just to prevent noobs from cheating
16:45 Tenplus1    it's client side to save using server but priv is controlled by server for effects
16:48 red-001     IcyDiamond, keep honest people honest
16:49 Tenplus1    hi red
16:49 Tenplus1    o/ sfan
16:49 red-001     and non-honest people that can't figure out how to bypass it, which is more of a side effect
16:52 * Tenplus1  changes everyones password to "12345"
16:53 red-001     "Admin1234"
16:54 Tenplus1    :P
16:54 Tenplus1    is it possible to add a feature that allows admin to read/save player attributes while they are offline ???
16:55 red-001     IhrFussel, could you give me an overview of the reasons given in that topic?
16:56 red-001     SMS verification feels like a bit of a privacy invasion
16:56 IhrFussel   Tenplus1, that's already planned I think...it was supposed to be added together with renaming attributes to meta
16:57 Tenplus1    wb Krock
16:57 red-001     Tenplus1, could add a way to load the player that's offline from the DB
16:57 Tenplus1    kewl, it's a feature I wanna see in engine
16:57 IhrFussel   red-001, sure so in the OP there was the idea to use SMS for verification but that was quickly scrapped (GDPR) ... then later they talked about how they could possibly create such a master auth system without violating GDPR (much)
16:58 red-001     GDPR might be the most misunderstood piece of legislation
16:59 red-001     IhrFussel, if you just want email sofar already has a site for that
17:00 IhrFussel   Then on the next few pages they discussed how to retrieve the MT password/connect website auth to MT auth and someone suggested MD5 *laughs*
17:01 red-001     minetest auth as never that bad
17:01 red-001     even before SRP
17:02 sfan5       red-001: sha1(user + password) is pretty bad
17:02 sfan5       there isn't even a random salt
17:02 red-001     better than md5
17:02 sfan5       whether you use md5 or sha1 doesn't matter much in this case, it's still terrible
17:03 red-001     I suppose so
17:03 Krock       md5 and sha1 are great for hashes which have to be fast
17:03 red-001     md5 is still worse
17:03 Krock       i.e. worst for passwords
17:03 red-001     even if both are terrible
17:04 red-001     and setting the password in plaintext would still be worse
17:04 red-001     sending*
17:04 Tenplus1    the only person who can access passwords is server admin anyhow ? surely /
17:05 Krock       sending the password after an empty password login through a chat message which is detected by the server. in plaintext.
17:05 IhrFussel   red-001, next they talked about the difference between a hash and encryption ... and on the last page they now start to make the auth website
17:06 * red-001   disables Google Translate
17:06 xerox123    o/
17:07 Krock       o/ xerox123
17:07 Tenplus1    hi xerox
17:07 red-001     \o
17:09 IhrFussel   The most recent post now states that there only seem to be 2 options: 1. each server gets a list from the "master auth" with all master passwords in certain  intervals ... 2. The engine (MT) sends the password hash to a callback so that it can be compared to the server async
17:09 xerox123    cleaning up a creative server... it's amazing how ignorant some people are
17:10 Tenplus1    left a mess behind xerox ?
17:10 red-001     IhrFussel, amazing
17:10 xerox123    I really wish I took a screenshot now, just noob mess everywhere
17:10 Tenplus1    so we really need a centralized uth system ???
17:11 Tenplus1    *auth
17:11 red-001     well I doubt there is any serious risk of this getting implemented
17:11 Tenplus1    make it an option
17:11 xerox123    moved everything good out of the way and nuked the area
17:12 Tenplus1    xerox: I'd do a /deleteblocks here 50    to clean it up and regen area :D
17:12 IhrFussel   If the master auth is supposed to work between different machines over the net then I imagine it to be very complex
17:13 red-001     Not really
17:13 red-001     I already linked an example implementation
17:13 IhrFussel   But surely more complicated than just having multiple processes running on the same machine?
17:14 xerox123    it's a little bigger than 50, like 200 radius
17:14 Tenplus1    lol, time to up the radius :D
17:15 red-001     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19313
17:15 red-001     !title
17:15 MinetestBot red-001: Minetest 2-factor Authentication Service[mt2fa] - Minetest Forums
17:18 Tenplus1    if this ever gets implemented please make it an option, dont force every server to be registered
17:19 Sokomine    IhrFussel: brandonreese afaik has a system for setting the mt password via a website
17:23 Sokomine    xerox123: yes, sadly "noob mess" is generally very present on too open servers
17:26 IhrFussel   That's why on my server a radius of at least 300 is protected
17:27 IhrFussel   Players who don't know how to use travelnets have to walk a while to find a spot to build but that's life
17:27 xerox123    it's pretty much always at the top of the list...
17:33 Tenplus1    wb aerozoic
17:33 Sokomine    doesn't hurt to walk a bit and to take a look at how the server is structured anyway
17:33 aerozoic    hi Tenplus1
17:44 IcyDiamond  rubenwardy: why cant i get any hits on any players on the ctf server
17:44 IcyDiamond  is it lag or am i not supposed to spam sword
17:45 red-001     pretty sure that's a minetest quirk
17:45 red-001     need to wait for the sword to move back
17:53 IhrFussel   Yep that's the full punch interval tools define
17:55 CWz         So i had this dream where i was at a farm, everything was normal until suddenly the sheep, pigs and cows started hopping twice their body-hight while walking in mid-jump. after that happened the entire farm started turning into this otherworldly world. all the objects and walls started having text on them their texture looked like garbled noice. next thing i knew i was running but after few feet the air became solid and i was staring at the grey void...
17:56 Tenplus1    o.O what were ya smokin' CWz :)
17:59 Krock       CWz: solution 1) never sleep
18:01 Tenplus1    solution 2) realise you are in a dream, give yourself creative privs and control that sh*t
18:02 Krock       lucid dreaming.. I wish I could do that
18:02 Tenplus1    it's possible with some mind training...
18:02 Tenplus1    throughout day close your eyes and check... if you can still see then you are dreaming... :))) then you know
18:15 Tenplus1    that's how I do it at least
18:20 Tenplus1    nite folks
18:31 Sokomine    spent some time searching for an error - because i apparently can't spell "height" :/ too hot here. has someone a free fridge to jump into?
18:34 IcyDiamond  sure
18:34 IcyDiamond  you can come step into my basement for a few secs, you'll be freezing
18:34 IcyDiamond  XD
18:35 IcyDiamond  totally a good idea to jump into the basement of a random guy online
18:48 atorian37   o/
18:59 * Sokomine  enjoys IcyDiamonds cold basement
18:59 Sokomine    i don't know. most basements might want some tidying-up ,-)
19:04 IcyDiamond  XD
20:24 IcyDiamond  can a forum mod delete this reply I accidentally created https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=326322#p326322
20:25 IcyDiamond  I thought I was editing but apparently I'm blind
20:43 Krock       then edit it so that it's an update post
20:43 Krock       don't fear bumping that topic
20:53 IcyDiamond  Okay, did that instead
21:13 IhrFussel   User with 50 other accounts on same IP "Who is xyz is real life? You share the same IP" "Nobody"
21:19 Krock       > school networks
21:20 red-001     > minetest masked lan party
22:56 aerozoic    Why can't i join a 4.16 server with a 4.17 client?
22:57 aerozoic    without getting flooded with errors in chat*
23:07 paramat     'deprecated' messages?
23:07 paramat     what's the error message?
23:10 aerozoic    "Irrlicht: GL_INVALID_ENUM"
23:10 aerozoic    It floods the chat continuous.
23:13 paramat     i seem to remember that's been mentioned before ...
23:14 paramat     android?
23:14 aerozoic    yep
23:14 paramat     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7525
23:16 aerozoic    Ah so it's not my server causing the issue.
23:16 paramat     please could you add your experience to the topic? seems this is triggered by 0.4.17?
23:20 aerozoic    ok
23:32 paramat     looks like we will need android 0.4.17.3
23:35 aerozoic    post added
23:42 xerox123_   I had that yesterday, fell as sleep before I got around to reporting it