Time  Nick        Message
00:08 rubenwardy  "You think you’re annoyed at the open source project that just pushed out a breaking change. You’re actually annoyed at your lack of deployment testing, inability to read documentation and unrealistic expectations of commercial-level support from volunteer maintainers."
00:08 rubenwardy  sauce: https://twitter.com/MikeMcQuaid/status/969654593088098304
00:14 Calinou     THIS ^
00:15 Calinou     "no warranty" needs to be understood more. It's written into free software licenses for a reason
00:56 Fixer       sauce!
02:53 srifqi      hi
02:54 srifqi      Wayward_One: I stuck on this: "jni/src/script/cpp_api/s_base.h:38:10: fatal error: 'cmake_config.h' file not found".
03:06 srifqi      Nvm, found it: #6894
03:06 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6894 -- Android build fails with missing header
03:13 Wayward_One yeah, i got hung up on that one too
03:19 srifqi      Another problem: "jni/../jni/src/gui/guiEditBoxWithScrollbar.cpp:151:2: error: use of undeclared identifier '_IRR_IMPLEMENT_MANAGED_MARSHALLING_BUGFIX'".
03:21 srifqi      ^ Wayward_One
03:28 Wayward_One hmm, i don't recall encountering that one..
03:33 Wayward_One i have no idea what could've caused that, sorry :/
03:33 srifqi      Okay.
03:34 srifqi      :(
03:39 srifqi      Wayward_One: You followed each step on the dev wiki, right?
03:48 Wayward_One yes, except instead of following the directions under "Obtaining and building Minetest, i git clone "https://github.com/stujones11/minetest.git" and then run "git checkout android-c++11"
03:49 srifqi      I've done that, too.
03:49 Wayward_One hmm
03:51 srifqi      Because it can't download irrlicht using svn, I decided to download snapshot and put it in build/android/deps/ folder.
03:51 srifqi      "jni/../../CFileSystem.cpp:29:6: error: Compiling with __STRICT_ANSI__ not supported. g++ does set this when compiling with -std=c++11 or -std=c++0x. Use instead -std=gnu++11 or -std=gnu++0x. Or use -U__STRICT_ANSI__ to disable strict ansi."
03:52 srifqi      ^ when building irrlicht lib.
03:52 srifqi      Maybe I downloaded it wrongly?
04:01 Wayward_One i really have no idea, sorry :/ i've never come across anything like that before. i wish i could be of more help
04:03 Wayward_One srifqi, what distro are you using btw, out of curiosity?
04:05 srifqi      lubuntu 17.10
04:09 Wayward_One hmm.. i've compiled it on linux mint 17.3 and 18.x
04:11 Wayward_One unfortunately i have to go to bed now, but i should be available again tomorrow
04:23 srifqi      See you!
13:28 srifqi      (Compiling Minetest for Android) Using stable-0.4 branch, I managed to go to "[armeabi-v7a] SharedLibrary  : libminetest.so".
13:28 srifqi      ... and then: "deps/irrlicht/include/vector3d.h:79: error: undefined reference to 'short irr::core::roundingError<short>()'".
13:28 srifqi      ._.
13:43 IhrFussel   "This server was not designed for mobile/tablet use, please use a PC or laptop to connect" <<< what a line... yeah sure why not? It's not like 80-90% of users connect through non-PC devices xP
13:44 Mr_Pardison Personally, I prefer to use a PC since the controls are much more user-friendly.
13:44 Fixer       #pcmasterrace
13:44 Mr_Pardison Fixer: YES!
13:45 IhrFussel   I will try to connect to my server now via a $65 Wiko phone
13:46 Shara       IhrFussel: which server was that?
13:46 IhrFussel   Downloading media is really really slow on phones... 6% after 30 secs whereas my PC (same connection) takes 20 secs total
13:47 IhrFussel   Shara, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19744
13:48 Shara       Ehh, nothing wrong with that
13:48 Shara       My server isn't designed for them either
13:48 Shara       If they can connect, great, if they can't.... well, I don't intend to reduce what I do to suit non-PC users
13:49 IhrFussel   I'm not saying it's bad to mention that, but not caring about the majority of MT userbase is not good for server popularity and from that post it looks like the server wants to become popular
13:49 Shara       Most do.
13:50 IhrFussel   I honestly care about the mobile users and before I add new mods I look at the possible load they could add on mobile devices
13:50 Shara       Personally I'd rather a couple of long term players who act like human beings and build great things, than a horde of name375s who wander around spawn without read signs until they time out
13:50 Shara       reading*
13:51 rubenwardy  looks like you've got some competition for the most amount of mods on a server, IhrFussel
13:51 Shara       I'm totally fine for app users to play, but the point is that I refuse to limit the experience I try to provide for others due to them
13:52 Shara       According to the server list, thye have only 137 mods, which I think includes MTG...
13:52 IhrFussel   rubenwardy, connect ot my server and you will see how smooth is runs on weak devices ... I'm testing it right now with my new cheap phone I bought..it has 1 GB RAM and a quadcore ARMv7
13:52 IhrFussel   Still downloading media though
13:53 Shara       I guess they are working on it though
13:54 IhrFussel   Many of my mods just add a few new blocks with no heavy functions/callbacks
13:56 IhrFussel   Shara, I agree that the server shouldn't ignore stuff just because phone users would have trouble running it, but I want to make mine as accessible as possible
13:56 Shara       And that's fine, but don't be too harsh on those who take a different stance
13:57 IhrFussel   Media 100% let's see if it manages to init everything before crashing
13:58 IhrFussel   The problem with Android is that it eats quite a bit of RAM already...but here we go I'm online on my server via a $65 smartphone
14:00 IhrFussel   ~ 15 FPS ... it's playable
14:01 Fixer       i would rather play NES and GBA games on mobile, instead of this 15fps thing
14:02 Fixer       Shara: treat those "name375s" as weather... they come on and go, leaving some or no trace =]
14:03 IhrFussel   $65 is about the cheapest you can get when buying a new smartphone (not talking used) ... if we now consider that most people have a much more expensive one then we can conclude that phone should have absolutely no problem on my server
14:03 Fixer       not really
14:03 Fixer       most people buy cheap everything, including smartphones
14:04 Fixer       only posers buy $600 smartphones =]
14:06 Mr_Pardison or those who have money to burn (rich ppl problems)
14:07 IhrFussel   Most people still buy a somewhat better one...you cannot expect much from $65 ... I have a 800x480 screen, a 5 MP camera and the screen is TFT
14:08 IhrFussel   And no the phone is not old, it's from 2017
14:08 IhrFussel   It's just a budget phone, made for poor people
14:09 Fixer       IhrFussel: 800x480, 5MP is enough for most
14:10 IhrFussel   Fixer, the most annoying is the screen being TFT and not even IPS so if you look at it from the wrong angle it changes
14:11 IhrFussel   gets brighter, negative image etc
14:12 IhrFussel   By the way has the default font size changed in 0.5.0 Android yet? The default is *horrible* on my screen ... I can barely see "drawtime" in F5 mode
14:13 IhrFussel   And if this screen is (based on what Fixer says) what many people got then I understand why they don't manage to control MT properly
14:14 Fixer       kids usually get shitty cheap phones :}
14:14 Fixer       so if they loose them - they won't go to that labour camp
14:15 IhrFussel   Wait it's not font size...it's gui_scaling
14:15 IhrFussel   Or maybe both
14:15 Fixer       maybe both
14:15 Fixer       i remember an issue about small fonts somewhere
14:16 Fixer       I'm not sure how those kids play it on 5-6" screens
14:16 Fixer       thats insane
14:17 Fixer       that's
14:18 IhrFussel   My phone is 5" but the low resolution makes pixels a lot larger I guess
14:20 IhrFussel   At least I can somewhat still navigate through UI ... but the buttons to switch the page are *very close* to the bottom of my screen
14:20 Fixer       IhrFussel: how about 320x240 TFT? ::))
14:22 IhrFussel   haha...now I also understand when many mobile players say "the chat is filling my screen"
14:22 IhrFussel   Cause 6 lines occupy 50 PERCENT
14:24 IhrFussel   That needs to be fixed before 0.5.0 releases...I would even say it's probably a bigger issue than the controls
14:25 IhrFussel   By controls I mean the arrow movement and button positions
14:26 Fixer       IhrFussel: i would rather play it on larger screen, in my time I've tried playing this in https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.png/300px-BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.png in 320x240 on 3,5", did not like it
14:26 Fixer       larger, aka full blown screen
14:27 Fixer       iirc, new smartphones support connecting to a big TV, so instead of destroying your eyes on that 5" shit, just connect it to TV to that cast thing or how it is called
14:28 Fixer       and buy small keyboard with a mouse I guess
14:28 Fixer       tbh
14:29 Fixer       i would rather buy a kid a Pi and hook it to big TV, stuff if with that great emus and stuff ;)
15:01 Fixer       suse
15:22 Fixer       https://i.imgur.com/ZIZWlYc.png :thinking_emoji:
15:23 benrob0329  🤔
15:28 Wayward_One Hi all :)
15:29 Mr_Pardison hello Wayward_One
15:31 CWz         wello Wayward_One
15:36 benrob0329  Hi Wayward_One
15:36 Calinou     I switched my KDE theme to Breeze Dark, I'm impressed that most applications still look fine
15:38 Fixer       show us
16:20 Fixer       old minetest textures are eye burning
16:34 sfan5       eye burning? you mean nostalgic
16:36 Fixer       cobble is worst
16:36 Fixer       textures are very contrasty
16:41 Fixer       it is also nostalgic
17:29 sofar       eye-burning textures sounds like a security vulnerability
17:31 Calinou     one can easily host a server with very loud sounds and seizure-inducing animations
17:31 Calinou     or pron in the spawn room :-)
17:31 sofar       don't tempt me
17:51 Fixer       can you stream porn within minetest server?
17:52 Fixer       or any video? audio?
17:52 Fixer       radio?
17:56 sofar       for the sake of making sure everyone knows, yes, you could indeed do this in crude ways
17:56 sofar       easy enough to make an animated texture
17:56 Fixer       nah, not that
17:56 Fixer       real streaming
17:57 benrob0329  Fixer: no, and may it never be
17:57 sofar       well no, depending on the quality you want
17:57 benrob0329  I dont want porn or ads being streamed into my game
17:57 sofar       audio isn't possible
17:58 sofar       but you can certainly do rudimentary animation
17:58 Calinou     [GIF conversion intensifies]
17:59 Fixer       okay okay I stop suggestions, this will turn badly
17:59 sofar       I mean, if people think it's impossible to shock kids in minetest then they should be warned
18:00 Calinou     you can also shock adults easily
18:00 sofar       yes, just mention the boogeyman, or taxes
18:00 Calinou     :D
18:00 Fixer       us taxes are not that high
18:01 sofar       in return, we also get nothing
18:01 benrob0329  You can scare teenagers with taxes to
18:01 benrob0329  o
18:02 Mr_Pardison taxes don't scare me.
18:02 benrob0329  They will :^)
18:02 Mr_Pardison they make me pull out a calculator and a lot of paper.
18:03 benrob0329  sofar: in-game taxes
18:04 sofar       I've seen games that do that
18:04 Fixer       minecraft towny has this
18:04 sofar       you get "income" for playing
18:06 Shara       Such things are a quick way to put me off playing
18:06 Shara       I'd rather reserve things like that for reality
18:07 sofar       towny wasn't bad iirc
18:15 Fixer       towny has optional taxes iirc
18:16 Fixer       i play currently on server with towny
18:19 Fixer       has some similarities to land rush
18:19 Krock       Fixer, for minetest it already stops with "streaming", as dynamic loading of media is not possible (yet)
18:20 Krock       well, duh.. if you really want you could use [combine for each pixel and each frame but your RAM wouldn't like it
18:24 rubenwardy  my plans for a capitalist server included taxas
18:24 rubenwardy  *taxes
18:24 Calinou     CommunistCraft
18:24 rubenwardy  you need it to take money out of the system
18:24 Shara       ruben, but then it would have an actual use
18:24 rubenwardy  true
18:24 rubenwardy  the taxes would then fund public stores, partly
18:25 rubenwardy  heh
18:25 rubenwardy  public stores would probably suck, so naah for that
18:25 Shara       I've just seen too many games use tax and so on pointlessly in ways that just seem to add unnecessary number work and no gameplay value or consequences
18:26 rubenwardy  tax needs to be automatic and smooth
18:26 Shara       introduce something if it will matter, otherwise....
18:26 rubenwardy  for example, in shops it should do tax automatically and include it in the price
18:26 rubenwardy  and for company income, it should be automatic
18:26 Shara       yes, but then what happens to the tax?
18:27 rubenwardy  it disappears
18:27 Shara       That's boring then
18:27 rubenwardy  or maybe goes to a government which can set server rules
18:27 rubenwardy  haven't decided yet
18:27 Shara       Second option would be better
18:27 rubenwardy  the whole point of tax is that it takes money out of the system, and avoids hyper inflation
18:27 Shara       Players can elect someone as an official who can decide what tax gets used for
18:27 rubenwardy  in a game anyway
18:28 Shara       rubenwardy: all that means if they caused too much money to appear to begin
18:28 sofar       I'm thinking a good fascism server may work well
18:28 rubenwardy  you want to give initial money to players
18:28 rubenwardy  to make it easier for them to start
18:28 sofar       force players to give up everything to fight "some evil"
18:28 rubenwardy  or maybe that should be in the form of a grant
18:29 rubenwardy  only available for buying machinery and locations
18:29 Shara       rubenwardy: let players take out loans :D
18:29 rubenwardy  why would you loan money to PlayerXYZ though?
18:29 Shara       with eventual consequences if they dont repay... assuming the get caught
18:29 Shara       they*
18:29 Calinou     <sofar> force players to give up everything to fight "some evil"
18:29 Calinou     mobile clients?
18:29 Shara       heh
18:29 Fixer       #pcmasterrace
18:30 sofar       even better to pit players against players using misinformation, yes
18:30 sofar       essentially horde vs. alliance
18:31 Shara       I would like to see a server playing around with, well, any of these things, so long as it was implemented well
18:32 Shara       but I think pretty much every MT server I saw playing with money of any kind just randomly had it appear in your inventory and so on
18:32 rubenwardy  anyway, I best do coursework
18:32 rubenwardy  https://i.rubenwardy.com/Ld4UCxHsCD.png
18:32 rubenwardy  ^ refraction with fresnel, TIR and beer's law
18:32 rubenwardy  beer's law means that if a translucent material has color, the amount of color you see depends on how much of the material you're looking at
18:33 rubenwardy  so jelly (as in the sweet thing, not jam you stupid americans, but I guess this applies to jam as well) is clearer the less you have of it, and more of the color the more you have
18:36 rubenwardy  Shara: I guess they could take out a loan from an NPC, and it would basically be the same as giving them money on start in terms of economics
18:36 rubenwardy  but it feels more realistic, and can be used later
18:37 Shara       yup
18:38 Shara       For example, other services might not be possible to use while they have the "in debt" status
18:38 Calinou     beer's law, the favorite law of Belgium
18:40 Shara       rubenwardy: anyway, I should try to not inspire you to get back into the game for the moment :D
18:40 rubenwardy  lol
18:42 rubenwardy  also, that image took 25s to render
18:43 rubenwardy  rasteriser is a lot faster: https://i.rubenwardy.com/uuXg0UzI1V.png
18:43 rubenwardy  60FPS
18:43 rubenwardy  anyway, enough offtopic
20:13 atorian37   if I migrate from files playerbase to sqlite3 and getting this error, what does that mean?:
20:13 atorian37   2018-03-05 21:04:16: ERROR[Main]: An error occured during migration: PlayerArgsEnd of player  not found!
20:14 sfan5       some of the player files you had were invalid
20:19 atorian37   ok, what does that mean to the migration. is it done or not?
20:20 atorian37   can I check that before sarting the server again?
20:20 atorian37   *starting
20:21 sfan5       " An error occured during migration:" means it's not done
20:25 atorian37   ok
20:31 atorian37   thank you sfan! there has been a txt file in the players directory that should not have been there...
20:31 atorian37   2018-03-05 21:30:21: ACTION[Main]: Successfully migrated 710 players
20:31 atorian37   it's always nice to have your support here!
21:45 Fixer       sofar: in that Earth map there are few missing squares
21:45 sofar       what is missing? vegetation/snow or something else?
21:48 Fixer       sofar: those things https://i.imgur.com/2LDXZC8.png and https://i.imgur.com/RLAstby.png and probably others
21:49 sofar       snow/vegetation cover missing I know about. it would cost me a lot of time to fix. Not sure about those locations though, do you think you can find me coords for those places?
21:50 sofar       it's also entirely possible the original MC map had those holes as well
21:51 Shara       Like looking at google earth anomalies
21:51 * Shara     really hopes someone will put that thing on a server
21:52 sofar       I would, if I knew what kind of gameplay people would want from it
21:52 Fixer       sofar: it is like hole in the ground in such places with only water present
21:52 Shara       sofar: hard to say, but would just appreciate a chance to wander round in it
21:52 Shara       Being able to travel easily would be important of course
21:53 sofar       nod, even a read-only world would be nice
21:53 sofar       I was even thinking of making a mini-game
21:53 sofar       like, "guess where you are"
21:53 Shara       Yup, wouldn't care even if it was no interact, or was reset every so often to prevent spam builds
21:53 sofar       and if you get it right, you get teleported to a random new place
21:53 Shara       I would simply prefer the option to select places and look. But maybe the quiz could be optional
21:54 Shara       Just feels like a thing that should be available somehow
21:54 sofar       maybe an educational project?
21:54 Mr_Pardison sofar: there's a game called geoguessr. https://geoguessr.com
21:54 Mr_Pardison !title
21:55 sofar       Mr_Pardison: that's where I got the idea from
21:55 Shara       was what I was thinking of too
21:55 Mr_Pardison nice.
21:56 MinetestBot urllib.error.URLError: <urlopen error EOF occurred in violation of protocol (_ssl.c:600)> (file "/usr/lib/python3.4/urllib/request.py", line 1184, in do_open)
21:56 Shara       You spelled it wrong? :)
21:57 sofar       could just make it an optional game
21:57 Shara       I'd prefer optional, simply because my interest is exploring it, not trying to answer questions
21:58 Mr_Pardison I'd so do the guess where you are thing since I like a challenge.
22:02 Fixer       sofar: example https://i.imgur.com/0JVzsBO.jpg
22:18 sofar       how deep is the hole? what's at the bottom? stone?
22:19 sofar       weird for sure, if it's a conversion bug it'll be interesting to see if I can find the original sector and see what happens during conversion
22:19 sofar       but it could just be a fluke
22:20 Fixer       sofar: vertical scale is 1:100?
22:20 sofar       dunno, did I not post that in the forums?
22:21 sofar       ah no, I did not
22:21 sofar       I think it's 1:100, sure, afaicr mt everest doesn't reach 100 nodes high
22:22 Fixer       sofar: i'm really looking forward into doing literally mountain everast 1:1 in minetest
22:22 Fixer       this will be epic
22:22 Fixer       i love this
22:23 sofar       I have this map at home:
22:23 Fixer       sofar: 25,5 at buttom of that square
22:23 sofar       https://images.bonanzastatic.com/afu/images/6758/ec16/1f3b_5400788055/s-l1600.jpg
22:24 Fixer       sofar: https://i.imgur.com/S0ommcx.png
22:24 Fixer       sofar: unknown nyan rainbow blocks underwater here
22:24 sofar       that's what the underwater temples convert to
22:24 Fixer       we don't have nyans anymore :)
22:24 sofar       send a patch to mcimport
22:24 Fixer       x_x
22:25 Fixer       i will create an issue I guess
22:25 Fixer       sofar: and where are other parts of temple?
22:25 Fixer       sofar: original minecraft map had those structures too?
22:26 sofar       the way this map conversion works is complex
22:26 sofar       the original MC map is "unpopulated" terrain
22:26 sofar       when you load it into MC, it adds villages, temples, animals, trees
22:26 Fixer       you can disable those
22:26 sofar       but only in places you visit
22:26 Fixer       iirc
22:26 sofar       so in order to make this map, I've had to unexplore the entire MC map in MC
22:27 sofar       (yes, you can enable or disable them)
22:27 sofar       but you don't get trees without loading every block in MC once
22:27 sofar       this takes like 4+ days to do
22:27 sofar       I even automated it
22:27 sofar       after the full explore, then I convert it with mcimport
22:28 Fixer       i don't get it, is not there simple download of this map for MC, pregenerated?
22:29 Fixer       that you can convert right away?
22:30 sofar       you can do that, but, I explained already, you wouldn't get a single tree
22:30 sofar       which is really ugly imho
22:33 Fixer       oh
22:36 Fixer       sofar: eh, you probably needed to disable all those structures like temples and such before explore >_>
22:37 sofar       4+ days of work to redo it X_X
22:37 Fixer       yeah
22:38 Fixer       that sucks
22:38 Fixer       at first I was... wth... bases in oceans?
22:38 Fixer       player built? then I've recognised those NPC villages
22:39 Fixer       sofar: and those square holes are probably induced by temples
22:40 Fixer       FSX, FlightGear now Minetest has world to explore
22:40 Fixer       have*
22:40 sofar       well, maybe I'll redo the conversion without structures, but it was a royal pain lol
22:41 Fixer       and don't forget to deal with that nyan thing
22:41 Shara       sofar: get it on a server and probably worth the pain :)
22:43 * Calinou   eats a pizza
22:43 Calinou     nevermind, I was testing Quassel master branch
22:43 Calinou     (I am not actually eating a pizza)
22:43 Fixer       Calinou: and?
22:44 Calinou     there's an option to color nicks in /me now :P
22:45 Fixer       that mcKingley mountain is ~77.5 nodes
22:46 Fixer       6190 meters = 77.5 nodes
22:46 sofar       y=77?
22:47 Fixer       yes
22:47 Fixer       80 meters per 1 node?
22:48 Fixer       how much was everest?
22:48 Calinou     8848 meters?
22:48 Calinou     (out of my head)
22:49 Fixer       in nodes on that map
22:49 Fixer       sofar: we need some kind of coordinate table to find stuff on that world -___-
22:52 Fixer       i generally run FSX to explore the world, it has pretty nice approximation
22:54 Fixer       and Car as a plane :}
23:21 Fixer       aww https://i.imgur.com/Zo26XWf.jpg