Time Nick Message 04:53 Thomas-S Megaf, we're working on Streets 3.0 at the moment. This version will be much more modular and lightweight. 14:43 IhrFussel I was curious how many high lag values my avg_lag mod reported on my server so far... the script that counts the lines results in "78082 samples -> 4299 higher lag values (3978 tolerable, 321 critical) [5.5%]." ... A sample is the max lag per minute 14:46 IhrFussel I think that's pretty good considering my server is not lightweight 16:48 Fixer MAKE A MOOOOOOOOOOVE 16:49 * Mr_Pardison moves his king pawn to d4 16:55 ThomasMonroe umm 16:55 ThomasMonroe thats not possible 16:55 ThomasMonroe Mr_Pardison, its e4 XD 16:55 Mr_Pardison I knew somethign was wrong. 16:55 Mr_Pardison It's been a while since I've played a game. 16:55 ThomasMonroe d6 16:56 ThomasMonroe ^ was my next move :) 17:00 twoelk o/ 17:01 Mr_Pardison \o 17:01 twoelk \ö 17:02 Fixer \oo/ 17:02 Mr_Pardison /oo\ 17:02 Fixer |oo| 17:03 ThomasMonroe \O> 17:04 Fixer Do you know what "INNOVATIVE" game we need for minetest? Skiing down the slope! Extreme sports %) 17:04 ThomasMonroe lol 17:05 ThomasMonroe Qub3d Update: Gamestates are going to be added soon :) 17:06 Mr_Pardison Fixer: YES! 17:06 Mr_Pardison put a player on a pair of skis and then see how long it takes them to either fail or make it to the bottom. 17:08 ThomasMonroe or make it to the bottom AND fail XD 17:09 Mr_Pardison would be hilarious either way 17:11 ThomasMonroe lol 17:23 Krock hi Mr_Pardison 17:23 Mr_Pardison 'ello Krock 17:56 * twoelk remembers skidding downhill with a pinguin in some game 17:59 twoelk https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_Racer can minetest supply the physics for something like that? 17:59 twoelk oops, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_Racer for most 18:30 rubenwardy Tux racer is great fun 18:30 rubenwardy hoping that client-side scripting will allow custom player physics eventually 18:30 rubenwardy but we need better anticheat first 18:30 rubenwardy ala #6219 18:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6219 -- Server side movement by bendeutsch 18:35 Shara Your initial feedback to that hasn't made me feel hopeful :( 18:40 Fixer *,,,,* 18:41 Fixer you know, you can merge and disable it by default and keep improving by adding further commits along the way, and then when it is pretty good - enable by default, ???, profit 18:44 Fixer better than letting that PR die and spread dissatisfaction 18:44 Shara I really hope it doesn't die 18:45 Shara But merged and off by default doesn't mean something will just get improved either 18:46 rubenwardy well, it depends on whether the issues are design related or just random bugs / unimplemented stuff 18:46 Fixer it does, there is insentive to work on it 18:46 rubenwardy I hope it's the latter 18:46 rubenwardy if it's the latter, it's fine to merge it and work on it more 18:46 Fixer if it is not merged, it ends up like that FarMap PR and 100 other prs... 18:46 rubenwardy if it's the former, then it shouldn't be merged 18:46 rubenwardy far map had design issues 18:46 rubenwardy and was generally pretty ugly 18:47 rubenwardy heh, strike the former 18:47 rubenwardy the map loading stuff should definitely have been merged 18:49 Fixer farmap idea looks neat on the surface, but then how that minecraft bedrock engine can achieve insane performance on vrange 1000 18:49 Fixer ? 18:49 rubenwardy yeah 18:49 rubenwardy that's the performance I'd prefer 18:50 Fixer i'm not saying i need vrange 1000, but if you have at least vrange 240 - you are set, totally immersed 18:50 rubenwardy agreed 18:50 Fixer now go and visit any server with town at spawn, fps will blow your mind, it sucks balls 18:51 Fixer it is that bad, you need to relocate the spawn sometimes 18:51 Fixer or avoid building on water 18:51 Fixer and/or 18:52 rubenwardy wonder if we could some how fundraise or bounty performance 18:52 rubenwardy hard to do with micro optimisations 18:52 Fixer BTW 18:52 rubenwardy would maybe be better to have benchmarks so we can at least see how PRs affect it 18:53 Fixer MINETEST was mentioned in upvoted thread in r/Minecraft 18:53 Fixer recently 18:53 Fixer something about wishes about next updates 18:53 Fixer with deeper mining 18:54 Fixer rubenwardy: minecraft is dying, not trandy, etc, how you gonna attract people to OSS-like of it, especially when MT pretends to be not MC-inspired, while it is clearly inspired 18:55 rubenwardy yeah, getting people is an issue 18:55 Fixer rubenwardy: my guess is, there are shittons of survival games, it is meme now, even if you push minetest on steam... I doubt it will have much traction (with current MTG) 18:56 Fixer rubenwardy: also, I don't see much developers right now, and MTG is dead (not really, paramat improves it and keeps alive, but that feels scary) 18:57 Fixer there are some attention to engine, but very little interest in MTG, thats bad 18:57 Fixer there is* 18:57 rubenwardy MTG sucks 18:57 rubenwardy I'd rather have people working on their own games, and actually making them good 18:57 Fixer it is like not fun to develop or smth 18:58 rubenwardy than more people on MTG 18:58 Shara Hoenstly, I'm sick of people being so negative about MTG 18:58 sofar I don't think I need to chime in on that and people know my perspective on MTG 18:58 Fixer MTG is nice for sandbox game as of now ;) 18:59 Fixer but it is boring, no story, no challenge, no mobs, automation, ambience, whatever 18:59 rubenwardy the problem with MTG is that it tries to suit everyone, so suits no one 18:59 Shara Or at least of people being so negative and doing nothing to help it 18:59 sofar I've written extensively why MTG will never succeed at anything on the forums 18:59 rubenwardy it's also a MC clone which is trying not to be a MC clone 18:59 Shara rubenwardy: sure, we know more games are needed, but unless those games can be official or at least have some easy way for people to find them, everyone will still get to know MT through MTG 19:00 Fixer ahah, yes 19:00 Shara and as long as that stands, improving MTG remains more worthy of time than anyone but paramat is willing to give it 19:00 Fixer rubenwardy: featuring some minecraft alpha/beta ideas 19:00 Fixer tools in inventory 19:00 Fixer cobble/gravel texture 19:00 sofar everyone should stop working on MTG immediately 19:00 Fixer no hunger 19:01 sofar it's not worth the time 19:01 sofar just let paramat maintain it 19:01 sofar everyone else should be working on specific narrow-focus subgame goals 19:01 rubenwardy work needs to be done to allow mod compatibility between multiple subgames 19:01 Shara sofar: again, why are you even on the MTG team? 19:01 rubenwardy so having individual mods with defined APIs 19:01 sofar to make sure stuff doesn't break 19:01 Mr_Pardison sofar: surely MTG can't be maintained by a single person. 19:01 rubenwardy having a single mod (ala defualt) is just brain dead 19:01 rubenwardy well 19:01 Shara Just pretty poor show when the MTG devs slam the only official game there is 19:01 rubenwardy when it does more than add nodes 19:02 sofar without any progress or development goals of significance, anyone can maintain mtg as-is 19:02 Mr_Pardison yeah.... 19:02 sofar I'm not slamming it. I'm saying it has no reasonable long-term goals that are worth working on 19:02 Shara Yes, you are slamming it 19:02 sofar It's not worth working on 19:02 Shara Heh 19:03 sofar there are far better things you can work on that are far more beneficial to minetest 19:03 sofar it's not the same 19:03 sofar sunken cost fallacy 19:03 Shara At least now I know why you didn't say no to me joining :) 19:03 sofar I can't prevent you from working on MTG, but I wish you wouldn't 19:04 Shara I'm also working on a seperate game 19:04 rubenwardy I think the best thing to do it work on both MTG and other games 19:04 Shara And actually find the experience of moving between them both useful 19:04 rubenwardy then you can back port cool but minimal things, and also expand on them elsewhere 19:04 sofar I get that 19:04 Shara There's some things MTG does right, and a whole load of things I wish it would do differently 19:04 sofar I'm beyond that from my perspective 19:05 Fixer also, do not throw rocks onto me, I waited 6 years to have carts on rails, instead of going into mc beta 1.5 at the time, I have commitment to this game, it is quite impressive how much progress was done on engine, and MTG has carts, and even fireflies, good selection of blocks to build, good for sandbox 19:05 Shara Well that's good for you, but a whole lot of server owners and players are stuck with MTG unless they'd like to lose a lot of work. 19:05 rubenwardy for coursework I think I'm going to work on a mod store for MT 19:05 rubenwardy in Python/Flask 19:05 rubenwardy and get it done 19:06 Shara I do consider making sure the needs of those sever owners and players get met means MTG stays important 19:06 rubenwardy will be done by May 19:06 sofar Shara: even more sunken cost fallacy 19:07 Shara sofar: sorry, but don't agree with you 19:07 Fixer MTG can be improved 19:07 sofar I understand, my perspective is ... not very empathetic 19:08 sofar I'm basically telling current server owners to stuff it and maintain mtg themselves, so everyone else who has cycles can work on something new 19:08 Fixer it can be improved evolutionally or revolutionary, whatever :D 19:08 Fixer sofar: that can work 19:08 Fixer some games has this extreme decentralisation 19:08 Fixer have* 19:09 Shara Well I've been maintaining my own versions of MTG since coral and keys got added, because I don't want them 19:10 Shara Though I'd actually like to get back to a point where I can use MTG proper again to save myself some hassle of maintaining those mods 19:10 sofar why are you maintaining a subgame if you can make a mod that can `minetest.override_item` etc.? 19:11 sofar anyway, not important/irrelevant 19:11 Shara Back when I started this, that wasn't an option 19:11 Calinou I just wish Minetest had a better experience for new players for now 19:11 Calinou there's just too much things to configure to make a fresh install playable right now 19:11 Fixer Calinou: problems in 2018? 19:11 Fixer holy shit, it is 2018! 19:11 Calinou plus, we don't even have an official Windows installer anymore 19:12 Fixer Calinou: installer sucks, zip rules new Brave & Degenerate windows era 19:12 Krock apt get install 2018 19:12 Mr_Pardison Linux FTW 19:12 Krock Calinou, did we ever have an official Windows installer? 19:12 Calinou Mr_Pardison: we don't have an official distribution-independent Linux package either :/ 19:12 Calinou (AppImage) 19:12 Calinou Krock: yep, for a short while. rubenwardy made it 19:12 Mr_Pardison Calinou: ik. 19:12 Mr_Pardison only in the reops tey have. 19:12 Mr_Pardison *they 19:12 Calinou Mr_Pardison: so lots of people end up using outdated versions 19:12 rubenwardy I don't have Windows any more 19:12 rubenwardy and so can't anymore 19:13 Calinou rubenwardy: you can create them from Linux (both with NSIS and Inno Setup) and test them using WINE 19:13 Mr_Pardison Ubuntu (as of 16.04) has 0.4.13 19:13 Fixer Calinou: windows installer in 201X @ malware, adware, opencandy, universal extractor, regshot2, hassles with updates 19:13 Calinou the only one which doesn't work in WINE is the WiX Toolset, which is more targeted at enterprise applications 19:13 Fixer portable is superior 19:13 Calinou (it creates .msi packages instead of .exe installers) 19:13 Calinou Fixer: why not both? 19:13 Fixer you can do both :) 19:13 Calinou see https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=minetest and https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest 19:14 Krock indeed, using Wine might be the solution there 19:14 Fixer Calinou: there is literally a PR about *.msi, guess what? IT IS DYINGG 19:14 Calinou users of LTS distros won't have the latest version :( 19:14 Calinou Fixer: yeah, I don't know why it's not being merged 19:14 Fixer Calinou: poke nerzhul and autogenerate appimages on his stuff 19:14 Calinou Krock: Inno Setup works very well from WINE, I'm using it for my Godot builds 19:14 sofar Shara: perhaps I'm looking at this too much from a business perspective, but honestly if I don't then I'd be working on things that are a waste of my time - I'm just not interested in working on something that has limited to no forward mobility and doesn't match the problem space I'd like to see solved 19:15 Krock Calinou, I don't know of any dev who has a setup on Windows to test & review it 19:15 Calinou Fixer: I would if there was any promise to make them official… 19:15 Fixer Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6153 19:15 Calinou Krock: the generated installer works perfectly in WINE :P 19:15 Calinou but you can test it in a Windows VM if you wish 19:15 Shara sofar: yes, you probably are. But do try to remember not everyone sees or wants to solve the exact same problem as you. 19:16 sofar which is fine, but everyone should agree that resources are now wasted on things that just... don't need it 19:16 Calinou I kind of feel this as well 19:16 Calinou (see: CSM debates) 19:16 sofar the amount of people-time available to the project is limited 19:16 Shara And what would you have me invest my time in instead? 19:16 rubenwardy sofar: then resign from MTG 19:16 Shara ^ 19:17 sofar rubenwardy: as long as people want me to review PRs for specific bits of code, I see no problem with doing that 19:17 sofar why should I resign if I'm still around to fix critical bugs and advise/review? 19:17 sofar I just don't want to work on solving the major architectural problems that MTG has 19:18 sofar or adding new features to it 19:18 Fixer sofar, MTG time available is paramat time available; no paramat, no MTG, and it will be sad to be gameless or stuck with zombie game (trying not to troll here) 19:18 sofar which is fine (and somewhat the current status quo) 19:18 sofar but then everyone except paramat should resign from mtg 19:18 Shara I'm actually working on things for it 19:19 sofar well, good 19:19 sofar I see it more as how I treat minetest-mods 19:19 sofar making sure it doesn't go to shit 19:19 Shara They are also things for another game for the most part, but it becomes a two for the price of one then 19:19 sofar I'm not going to delete it 19:20 Shara Delete what? 19:20 sofar mtg 19:20 Shara Uhhh 19:20 Shara Not even sure why that came up, since it wouldn't be your call. 19:20 sofar as in, delete it from my local copies, stop using it myself etc. 19:20 Shara Ahh 19:21 sofar I've done Open Source for... like 20 years now? I know very well that maintining legacy projects can be a very small time investment and have a big return 19:21 Fixer sofar: but what remains? 19:22 Shara I'm quite happy for you to work on MTG or not as you see fit, but I do find is bad when one of the official devs for it is so intent on calling it a waste of time. 19:22 Fixer sofar: apart from MTG, insidethebox 19:22 sofar I would just effectively shelf it for the most part 19:22 sofar ah, yes, I still think the words are suitable (crass, but not out of line) 19:22 Fixer but what in the future? 19:22 rubenwardy #7053 19:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7053 -- Rename Subgame to Game 19:23 sofar rubenwardy: I'm all for that 19:23 sofar mark me as :+1: on that 19:23 rubenwardy done 19:25 sofar Shara: the reason I'm being somewhat offensive about it is because I want people to realize that "we all want to get something" but "it comes at a cost" and those 2 are not matching 19:26 Shara sofar: I realise the cost of getting things, which is both why I am working on my own game (not a small effort, and has a team behind it... but not doing any kind of public release until it gets to a certain stage), and also why I agreed to join MTG development. 19:26 Shara I am completely willing to work on things. 19:26 twoelk sofar: you got any links to where you go into detail at where mtg fails? 19:27 sofar hmm, honestly that would probably be somewhere in IRC logs I think 19:27 sofar essentially, MTG shouldn't be packaged as a game with the default download 19:28 Shara It needs to come with something 19:28 sofar the default download should contain a single-player survival type game instead, focussed on local play or local lan play only 19:28 sofar no problem with mtg existing for server owners to use 19:29 sofar but stop giving it to people who download a phone or tablet version from the app store 19:29 twoelk well if ever mt does not come with default content then it definetly needs some built in download option for content 19:29 sofar I'm definitely not saying "dont' ship any game" 19:29 sofar the opposite 19:29 sofar it just should not be MTG, at all 19:30 Shara Personally I'd favour either it coming with more than one game, or making a very easy way to get games from the client 19:30 twoelk all other games had their time and faded into abandoned states 19:30 twoelk none have stuck around for really long 19:31 twoelk I wrote most of the games-list on the wiki and there are a lot of corpses there 19:31 sofar previous games haven't gotten enough momentum 19:31 Shara How many other games ever had actual teams, not just one or two people, working on them? 19:32 sofar or lacked actual orchestration/directing 19:32 twoelk mtg is the only game that has some sort of functioning maintenance for most of the time it existed 19:32 rubenwardy yeah 19:32 rubenwardy there are basically no other games of sufficient quality 19:32 sofar It would certainly be interesting to do a post-mortem on old games 19:33 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19721 19:34 Krock rubenwardy, you forgot to add a poll for those who don't have a github acc 19:34 Shara rubenwardy: surely there's already been enough positive support for this? 19:34 rubenwardy heh 19:34 rubenwardy yeah 19:34 Shara It's just changing a word 19:34 Shara Nothing else 19:34 rubenwardy kk, fiar 19:35 sofar I think one of the biggest problems is that people don't understand the problem space 19:35 sofar it's not that mtg is bad/or good 19:35 twoelk maybe someone should explain why the term subgame was chosen in the first place - I remember some discussion but forgot the content 19:35 Shara It's simply not really a game 19:35 sofar well no 19:36 sofar the problem is that it's not a solution for the biggest problem 19:36 sofar take for instance 19:36 sofar terraria 19:37 twoelk so the single example game solution is bad? 19:37 sofar did you know that terraria is a terribly incompatible game that can't do multiplayer with other versions unless you have the exact same version pretty much? 19:37 sofar if you're on android 4, you pretty much cant play with anyone who has android 5/6 etc 19:37 sofar why then is the game still so popular? 19:37 Shara Never had a single problem when running a server for it way back (but only played with a group of PC users) 19:38 sofar and the answer is simple: the game is enjoyable in single player anyway 19:38 rubenwardy deleted topic 19:38 sofar I bet 95%+ terraria players never play multiplayer (ever) 19:38 rubenwardy there's a lot more to do in terraria than just build 19:38 Shara sofar: it's a game. Not a dig-a-hole simulator 19:38 rubenwardy which is why 19:38 sofar exactly 19:38 sofar it's actually a well-rounded game at that 19:38 sofar someone did: 19:39 sofar - artwork direction 19:39 sofar - landscaping 19:39 sofar - crafting engineering to be consistent and understandable 19:39 sofar - add some RP elements/storyline 19:39 sofar it's not rocket science 19:39 rubenwardy > crafting engineering to be consistent and understandable 19:39 rubenwardy github.com/rubenwardy/crafting 19:39 Shara None of this is really news though. It's also why I'm trying to ge specific people taking ownership for such areas in my own game 19:39 sofar it's just looking at it from a product perspective 19:40 sofar this is how nore and me developed ITB as well 19:40 sofar focus on a goal, make sure everything passes the checkboxes (good textures, audio, mechanics, etc.) 19:41 sofar and don't release until it all works 19:41 Shara Basically why mine is not public 19:41 twoelk sofar: seems I'm pretty much with you there except that I don't understand why this excludes working on mtg 19:41 sofar "working on" in my vocabulary isn't the same as "maintaining it" 19:42 sofar I'm currently not working on ITB, either 19:42 sofar I'm not working on anything :) 19:42 Shara Lucky for some :P 19:43 twoelk well from what I understand you would check that new code doesn't wreck havoc but not fix the existing content where you think it fails 19:43 sofar Shara: if you are working on a project that has it's goals set to create an essentially single-player survival game, count me in 19:43 Shara sofar: if you would be interested in working with us, please do message me to discuss more. 19:44 sofar the goals need to match, though, I absolutely do not want to work on a project that solely is designed to be run on a server 19:44 Shara Agred, that's why discussion first 19:44 sofar or primarily, even 19:44 * twoelk remembers some tomes lost in never made trails 19:44 sofar mostly because I worked on ITB and entity_ai 19:44 Shara I want something that gives a solid singleplayer experience without need of additional mods 19:45 sofar and finishing an actual project is more important than getting traction on 3 projects at the same time 19:45 sofar besides that, with ITB I got a chance to do the whole creative directing/architecture that I wanted to do 19:46 sofar my next project should really be to work on entity_ai 19:47 sofar of course, there are significant RL projects happening as well for me 19:47 Shara One thing I do not want to work on myself is mobs... so if you find yourself in a place where you can provide mobs that work well, that's something I could have use for 19:48 twoelk my next RL-project : go shovel lots of snow :-P 19:48 sofar yeah, we had 8+" of snow at our RL project too last week :) 19:49 Fixer twoelk: same, snow loves you 19:49 Krock 20 centimeters ^ 19:49 sofar I nearly got stuck in it 19:49 sofar well, the car :) 19:51 twoelk usually I get my "spring-is-coming" haircut in early march - but I don't really feel like doing it that soon 20:05 Fixer spring is coming, it will be nice, but summer will suuuuck 20:06 * Fixer pokes Calinou 20:07 Mr_Pardison Fixer: try summer in a place where it will reach 100 F regularly. 20:08 Fixer Mr_Pardison: that is why I hate it so much 20:08 Fixer i mean, when Europe moved into Africa? I've missed that part 20:08 Mr_Pardison at least we have really good BBQ where I live. 20:09 sofar yes, because BBQ is related to location 20:09 Fixer if your car has no AC, you will became BBQ 20:10 * twoelk thinks after all this discussion he should bring his own privat subgames uptodate - but then rather starts to play some mt 20:11 sofar twoelk: make me a new box? 20:11 sofar on itb? 20:12 twoelk erm ... 20:12 sofar twoelk: minetest.foo-projects.org 20:13 twoelk been there, failed some, loved the place 20:14 twoelk wow - playing from my new usb-stick sucks like sticky goo :-( 20:15 sofar rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19719&view=unread&sid=fcc776b5f9317fa8afe6b68a558f22f4#unread 20:15 sofar bug in docs? 20:18 rubenwardy lol 20:20 sofar we use "models" as folder name everywhere, not "meshes" 20:21 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_book/commit/dddfab3827c356ce4743aa195f36d085d8fd583f 20:22 sofar +1 20:22 Shara :) 20:22 Shara (yes, your editor needs to do better work) 20:24 Calinou sofar: people don't care about compatibility in proprietary gaming 20:24 Calinou especially since Steam has (sometimes forced) automatic updates 20:25 Calinou also, MemoServ is literally Twitter :P https://lut.im/7f45uybXHi/PEwhkPdB9k0Orkj0.png 20:27 rubenwardy > literally 20:28 sofar Calinou: steam doesn't exist for android 20:28 sofar and that's where the largest minetest user base exists 20:37 * twoelk whispers lets make windows great again and hides again in the shadows 20:39 twoelk hmm, so turning of logging and savemaptolocal makes mt playable from slow usb - not really surprising I guess 20:40 twoelk why do write processes slow down the client? or rather can't that be avoided? 20:41 sofar usb storage is slow to write 20:41 sofar saving the map locally serves no purpose other than stealing the map 20:41 sofar you don't load the game faster 20:41 twoelk but I love using the mapper 20:41 sofar it's just reducing the longevity of your usb stick 20:43 twoelk but that aside, can't them slowmotion monks that scribble down the map be sent to some other abbey on the other side of the mountain, so I can have my fast lane for fighting of the odd monster 20:43 twoelk it's the same with any info written to local file 20:45 Calinou USB sticks are really slow compared to SSDs or even HDDs at times 20:46 Calinou high-end USB sticks such as the Sandisk Extreme aren't too bad, but are still much worse than mid-range SSDs 20:46 twoelk all true 20:47 twoelk haven't played from a stick for that exact reason 20:48 twoelk insert "for some time" in the above - somewhere 20:48 Mr_Pardison between 'stick' and 'for' 20:49 twoelk :-P 20:51 twoelk so it seems my new tiny speck of usb device is not the gadget of option to sneak in more mt at work :-( 20:56 Fixer USB 2.0 flash driver is uselessly slow 20:57 Fixer drive* 20:57 Fixer Calinou: i'm in SSD club as of now :] 21:17 Calinou congrats :D 21:19 Fixer new stalker lost alpha full release, neat 21:20 rubenwardy so, that snow huh 21:24 rubenwardy how can Ubuntu's Software app be so slow 21:55 lumberJ rubenwardy: every try app grid? 21:55 lumberJ ever* 21:55 rubenwardy no? 21:55 rubenwardy !g linux app grid 21:55 rubenwardy ~g linux app grid 21:55 ShadowBot rubenwardy: App Grid An Alternative to Ubuntu Software Center, Install in ... - App Grid is a lightweight software center which is being considered as an alternative to Ubuntu software center, it's been a quite whil... , App Grid: New Lightweight Ubuntu Software Center (7 more messages) 21:56 lumberJ its a nice software app if you are unhappy with ubuntu software center 21:56 rubenwardy http://www.appgrid.org/ 21:56 lumberJ performs well enough, easy to install and is drastically better at discovery than most software/package installers 21:57 rubenwardy argh 21:57 rubenwardy PPA 21:57 lumberJ there is ppa or .deb 21:58 rubenwardy where? 21:58 lumberJ the .deb should be on the app grid website, one sec 21:58 rubenwardy PPA 21:58 rubenwardy not .deb 21:58 lumberJ ah, sure, another sec :P 21:58 rubenwardy https://launchpad.net/~appgrid/+archive/ubuntu/stable 21:59 lumberJ that looks right 23:01 Fixer sofar: you are right about goals, but is not MTG goals are already defined here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 Why starting from scratch? 23:08 sofar Fixer: convincing paramat is not a good, healthy and satisfying hobby 23:09 sofar besides, it would be more work to convert mtg 23:09 Fixer sofar: fork minetest_game and included it alongside and rework it heavily? 23:09 sofar than to start from scratch 23:09 sofar it's too much baggage imho 23:09 sofar some parts are great, though 23:09 sofar sfinv works well, for instance 23:14 Shara Only issue with sfinv is that it depends on default 23:14 * Shara pokes rubenwardy again about that 23:15 Shara I really want to see more of the basic mods that games need being easily usable outside MTG, so people have an easier time of making other games. 23:15 sofar it's really only 2 lines of default that it needs 23:15 sofar the silly gui bg textures 23:16 Shara I know, already changed it in my version 23:16 sofar I patched that out myself too 23:16 sofar honestly sfinv can just carry those textures 23:16 Shara But it would be nice to sort that out in MTG, so other people can just drop it in to whatever they are working on 23:16 Shara Yes, that's what I did 23:17 Shara I just really like the idea of making mods non game specific where possible. 23:17 Shara You can't with some things, but for other things there'd no real excuse. 23:18 Shara there's* 23:18 rubenwardy Shara: #7068 is needed for that 23:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7068 -- Standard formspec templates (ie: default.gui_bg) 23:20 Shara Just got to hope someone finds time :) 23:20 Fixer everything relies on MTG this days 23:20 Fixer these 23:20 * Shara maybe wants to clone certain devs