Time  Nick          Message
00:48 Megaf         paramat: I know very well when to blame mods
00:48 Megaf         reason why I don have any mob nor technic
00:48 Megaf         but the thing is, with the same mod set, 0.4.16 got way heavier than 0.4.14
00:49 Megaf         and taxing, in clinets and server
00:49 Megaf         the good thing is. It looks like theres no memory leaks
00:49 Megaf         memory use is high but constant
00:51 Megaf         OH MY GAWD!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLawxkYyug
00:51 Megaf         And it' s running DEBIAN!
00:51 Megaf         !title
00:51 MinetestBot   Megaf: $299 Gemini PDA at CES 2018 - YouTube
00:52 Megaf         I NEED TWO OF THOSE
00:59 paramat       yes, it's odd how client memory use rose
01:02 rubenwardy    block loading got changed iirc
01:03 rubenwardy    there will be a setting to reduce how many blocks are in memory
01:05 paramat       try reducing 'client_mapblock_limit', might save half a GB. also maybe the mods you use got heavier?
01:07 paramat       hm i remember that block loading was made to act identically in all 3 dimensions, instead of the vertical load range being reduced
01:07 paramat       but the mapblock limit parameter will limit that
01:12 paramat       and, erm, you often don't know when to blame mods instead of MT and the devs :}
01:28 paramat       we have smooth lighting on everything now, that must increase client load especially with lots of nodeboxes present
02:03 tumeninodes   crazy Ukrainian spam on forum :P https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=22543
02:15 redblade7     hi
02:15 redblade7     i havent updated the mods on my server in months, so i'm doing that, and adding some new ones
02:15 redblade7     i want to add skins (real ones, not the dresser)
02:15 redblade7     i was wondering waht the best mod is
02:16 redblade7     i see there's one that makes use of server
02:16 rubenwardy    simple skins by 11
02:16 redblade7     a third-party database
02:16 rubenwardy    (tenplus1)
02:16 redblade7     but i dont want to cause lag
02:16 rubenwardy    no unfortunately :/
02:16 redblade7     the database one does cause lag?
02:16 redblade7     i'd think so
02:17 Shara         skins db one?
02:17 redblade7     i'm looking for the one that pizza used to have (where did the new one go?) which integrated into unified_inventory
02:17 redblade7     will the skins db one cause lag from disk i/o?
02:18 redblade7     because that is a real problem i have
02:18 Shara         I seperate it from the db part and just picked a bunch of the skins I liked
02:18 redblade7     although i've gotten better improving it
02:18 redblade7     wait...
02:18 Shara         You can also reduce the size of most of the skins
02:18 redblade7     i thought that brouguht you to a third-party repository
02:18 Shara         There was a place people could upload skins to
02:19 Shara         but do you really want hundreds and hundreds of skins?
02:19 Shara         Many of them are duplicates of each other with tiny changes
02:20 redblade7     no
02:21 redblade7     i dont want more disk i/o or lag
02:21 redblade7     so
02:21 redblade7     what's the best option?
02:21 redblade7     "pizza 2.0" is apparently gone
02:21 redblade7     but i remember, there was a charizard one
02:22 Shara         https://github.com/tenplus1/simple_skins
02:22 Shara         That one maybe
02:22 redblade7     and it integrated into unified_inventory
02:22 redblade7     no, it wasn't that, it was in unified inventory with previews of the skins
02:22 Shara         The db one integrates, but unless you want hundreds of skins, you need to adapt it
02:23 redblade7     it might have been this, but it says it's discontinued in favor of the db one
02:23 redblade7     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9807
02:25 redblade7     oh ok so skinsdb is like a framework and you download what you want?
02:25 redblade7     into the mods folder?
02:25 Shara         Hmm, just checking what I have
02:25 redblade7     i thought it was a catalog
02:25 Shara         Apparently I adapted u_skins
02:25 redblade7     which polled a server
02:25 Shara         But I re3member removing some part about a db or.. something (this was over two years ago)
02:26 Shara         remember*
02:26 redblade7     yep
02:26 Shara         and my version still works well
02:26 redblade7     i just dont want to poll hundreds of png files every time players connect
02:26 Shara         Will about 300 skins (I deleted the rest)
02:26 redblade7     the jukebox is bad enough
02:26 Shara         With*
02:27 redblade7     ok
02:27 Shara         I also reduced the texture sizes on all of them
02:28 redblade7     and how does the wardrobe work with it? right now you have 10 skins with the wardrobe from homedecor_Modpack, but they dont save when you log off
02:28 redblade7     i just installed datastorage so it might now
02:29 Shara         I guess the wardrobe just works like it always does. They are not connected
02:29 Shara         You'd have test
02:30 Shara         You can probably test on my server if you want, since both should be there
02:30 Shara         (Red Cat)
02:31 redblade7     and does armor replace the skin?
02:32 redblade7     i just added that
02:32 redblade7     even though i dont have pvp, some players wanted it on my damage servers
02:34 redblade7     shara how do i read the books? right clicking isnt working
02:35 Shara         You probably don't have interact yet?
02:35 Shara         Read the signs
02:35 redblade7     oh ok it was the sign behind them
02:35 Shara         Hehe
02:36 redblade7     i'd think it would be in all those books with "how to gain privs" the last
02:36 Shara         Spawn area is a bit more complicated than the norm.... stops a lot of would-be troublemakers
02:36 redblade7     not mine, mine is simple, with some roads and travelnets, and people who were lucky enough to build around them :)
02:37 redblade7     although on my creative server, i just built a new spawn area
02:37 redblade7     after 2 years, since it got too crowded and people were complaining (they apparently weren't creative enough to use the travelnets)
02:37 Shara         Yes.. had that problem
02:37 Shara         That's why spawn is now underground and has multiple ways out
02:39 Shara         Players must show they can read, follow some simple instructions, and have a little patience.
02:39 redblade7     i just have a wall with rules
02:39 redblade7     and news
02:39 redblade7     but
02:40 redblade7     is there a way to see what i look like while looking at skins?
02:40 redblade7     like i forget what they call ti in fps games
02:42 Shara         Hmm, probably not very well
02:42 Shara         I mean, you can change view, but the inventory window will clock the view anyway
02:42 Shara         block*
02:42 Shara         Hi paramat
02:44 rubenwardy    hey paramat
02:45 paramat       hi, i have a version of simple skins ..
02:45 paramat       see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1967
02:46 paramat       shifts the formspec and removes tint so you can view the skin
02:46 paramat       ^ redblade7
02:46 Shara         He wanted something with UI, which I think doesn't work with simple skins
02:47 paramat       uses the same file format as simple skins by tenplus1 so you can just move them into my version
02:47 paramat       yes my version doesn't work with UI, but i think simple skins might
02:48 paramat       oops no
02:48 paramat       it works with 'inventory plus'
02:49 redblade7     i use vanessae's unified_inventory
02:49 Shara         I'm still amazed uskins runs as well as it does on RC.
02:49 VanessaE      RBA's *
02:49 VanessaE      UI isn't mine.
02:49 redblade7     you forked it though
02:49 redblade7     i use your fork
02:49 VanessaE      meh
02:50 redblade7     did you fork technic too? or is that abandoned
02:50 VanessaE      all my updates went to upstream long ago....both
02:50 redblade7     i'll deal with skins later
02:50 paramat       anyway my skins mod is the simplest and most lightweight
02:52 paramat       https://github.com/paramat/minetest_game/tree/skins
02:52 Shara         I just can't get used to it being shifted to the left like that
02:52 paramat       heh
02:53 Shara         I completely get why you're doing it that way
02:53 Shara         Just can't get used to it :P
02:53 paramat       maybe no other mod has ever shifted the formspec before, makes it look weird to some people :)
02:54 Shara         I don't know why you close things you are still working on though
02:54 Shara         There's plenty of PRs that just get left open for ages anyway
02:55 tumeninodes   impulsivity ;)
02:55 Shara         heehehe
02:55 Shara         It's just more difficult to see what's being worked on
02:56 tumeninodes   this is why, if there is something in paramat's repo you like... better fork it quick
02:57 Shara         Then I'd need to fork basically everything he does
02:57 tumeninodes   exactically
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 benrob0329    o/
03:05 rubenwardy    \o/
03:05 tumeninodes   wth?
03:05 rubenwardy    \o/
03:06 tumeninodes   \o/ does the wave with rubenwardy
03:06 Shara         Who broke benrob?
03:06 tumeninodes   looks like benrob has the hiccups
03:07 tumeninodes   either that or the tardis finally made him snap
03:07 benrob0329    ok, I think we're good now
03:07 benrob0329    *hic*
03:07 tumeninodes   heh... you k dude?
03:08 benrob0329    yeah, dunno why hexchat decided to do..that
03:08 tumeninodes   because hexchat is evil
03:08 benrob0329    I didn't have my faulty script loaded
03:10 rubenwardy    never happened to me
03:11 benrob0329    *shrugs*
03:12 paramat       i closed it due to the 1 month neglect rule, being too hard on myself, reopening
03:12 paramat       after all it's not really neglected
03:12 Shara         :)
03:13 Shara         Anyway, good night.
03:13 tumeninodes   night Shara
03:16 rubenwardy    that shouldn't apply as strictly to MTG, para
03:16 rubenwardy    paramat,
03:16 rubenwardy    there's like 10 PRs
04:11 Hijiri        why is armor_monoid second on  https://minetest-mods.rubenwardy.com/? As far as I know only one large mod depends on it
04:12 Hijiri        and it's a soft depends
04:12 Hijiri        maybe it is possible they were looking for armor and installed it on accident?
04:29 tumeninodes   is there a conf setting for autojump? to walk up hills like on the Android build?
04:35 tumeninodes   or, is there a conf setting for player step height
04:36 tumeninodes   if anyone knows, please pm me, I am off to bed. night all
04:39 paramat       !tell tumeninodes no but you can set the object property 'step height' per player, to 1.1 nodes or whatever
04:39 MinetestBot   paramat: I'll pass that on when tumeninodes is around
04:42 Hijiri        would it be silly to have a mod with only hydraulic power transmission
04:42 Hijiri        like machines might internally have gears and shafts and things but anything that goes between two nodes has to use hydraulic power
04:45 paramat       i see no reason why that's silly :)
04:45 paramat       looking through the skin database, so many skins have creeper faces on the back =S
04:46 paramat       .. and headphones and a hoodie
04:49 paramat       .. and a chequered bandana over their mouths
05:18 Megaf         :S
05:18 Megaf         tug life ^
05:18 Megaf         3:18 AM, can' t sleep
05:19 Megaf         maybe I need coffee
13:34 IhrFussel     I think sauth got a bug...probably? I tried to protect an area for someone and got a crash "Runtime error from mod 'areas' in callback on_chat_message(): unrecognized token: "'rhn'' LIMIT 1;"
13:42 shivajiva     what was the command issued pls Fussel
13:42 IhrFussel     /set_owner rhn rhn' abode & plant farm
13:43 IhrFussel     rhn's*
13:43 shivajiva     wondering if ' is causing the crash
13:44 IhrFussel     Nope, cause the user was able to protect "rhn's plantation" minutes before
13:44 IhrFussel     Maybe the "&"?
13:45 IhrFussel     Or it maybe is the ' but only happens if the command has 2 arguments?
13:46 shivajiva     the error shows 'rhn"
13:48 IhrFussel     Seems like I forgot the s after '
13:48 IhrFussel     I actually typed "rhn' abode & plant farm"
13:51 IhrFussel     Could that cause it? Cause "rhn's" seems to work fine
13:53 IhrFussel     shivajiva, wait...I'm dumb I typed rhn' as NAME
13:53 IhrFussel     But sauth should probably check for unallowed chars
13:54 shivajiva     okay I'll get that added later
14:18 Fixer         wth paramat is doing with this PR? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1996
14:23 Megaf         Nice Dolby AD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKAG3aou5yU
14:23 Megaf         !title
14:23 MinetestBot   Megaf: Creating The Spectacular | Dolby - YouTube
14:29 IhrFussel     What's the max speed of boats in MTG? I see no variable for that
14:32 IhrFussel     I see a 5 somewhere in the code...maybe that's it?
14:42 Megaf         <ACTION> 2018-01-09 13:55:14: [Server] Server: ggggggtggggggg supplied empty password from 178.216.188.149
14:42 Megaf         Those nicks...
14:43 Mr-Pardison   hate them.
14:43 Mr-Pardison   2 players on DL that have the nick nnnnnnnn and nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
14:44 Megaf         Mr-Pardison: disable logins without passwords
14:44 Megaf         you will see a huge drop in logins, but it's worth it
14:44 Mr-Pardison   I don't run it.
14:44 Mr-Pardison   poke $hara about that.
14:44 Mr-Pardison   and I was talking about the nick.
14:45 Shara         Passwords are already required
14:45 Shara         And.. that. SIlly names have nothing to do with whether passwords are needed
14:45 Mr-Pardison   such long name that is just the same.
14:46 Megaf         Shara: well, in the one I post the person tried to login with empty password.
14:46 Megaf         Thats why I mentioned
14:53 shivajiva     name_restrictions can assert pronounceable on new names
14:54 shivajiva     i.e. some vowels reqd as well as consonants
14:56 Megaf         Folks, how to I reenable sneak?
14:59 IhrFussel     Megaf, this? https://pastebin.com/swnArpyX
14:59 shivajiva     it's per player in their attribs plus a conf setting from memory
15:00 shivajiva     https://github.com/SmallJoker/sneak_glitch/blob/master/init.lua
15:06 Megaf         so
15:06 Megaf         how do I do it?
15:11 IhrFussel     Megaf, just paste my snippet in any register_on_joinplayer() function
15:20 Megaf         Linode is amazing. I ask them to downsize my plan, and they do that, but they also convert to a cheaper way of billing, and also give me 2 motnhs credit
15:20 Megaf         and free GBs
15:21 Mr-Pardison   nice.
15:21 Mr-Pardison   now you should have some money for that ice cream you wanted.
15:22 Megaf         hah, indeed
15:22 Megaf         thou that would go to cover my dedicated for one month...
15:23 Mr-Pardison   opportunity cost.
15:23 rubenwardy    uh oh
15:23 Megaf         Linode is the best VPS host. they are just expensive for what they offer.
15:23 rubenwardy    looks like someone isn't sanitising their input to SQL
15:23 Mr-Pardison   speaking of opportunity cost, I have econ next.
15:23 Mr-Pardison   yay.
15:23 Mr-Pardison   ^ partially sarcasm
15:23 Megaf         rubenwardy: what you talking about
15:25 rubenwardy    <IhrFussel> I think sauth got a bug...probably? I tried to protect an area for someone and got a crash "Runtime error from mod 'areas' in callback on_chat_message(): unrecognized token: "'rhn'' LIMIT 1;"
15:26 shivajiva     just checking a fix, the issue is '
15:27 Megaf         https://blog.linode.com/2017/06/16/linode-turns-14/
15:27 Megaf         !title
15:27 MinetestBot   Megaf: Linode Blog » Linode turns 14!
15:27 Megaf         I have been with Linode for half of their existence
15:27 shivajiva     when manually passed in a chat command as part of the name
15:29 shivajiva     should area mod sanitise or should sauth catch it :)
15:29 rubenwardy    sauth should
15:30 rubenwardy    because there maybe more mods with this mistak
15:30 shivajiva     that's why I'm testing a fix :P
15:30 rubenwardy    excellent
15:30 rubenwardy    thanks for your work on s.*
15:31 shivajiva     np :)
15:36 Megaf         rubenwardy: sfan5: perhaps you could give a hand here ? https://github.com/minetest-mods/nixie_tubes/
15:37 Megaf         I mean
15:37 Megaf         https://github.com/minetest-mods/nixie_tubes/issues/8
15:37 Megaf         !title
15:37 MinetestBot   Megaf: decatron nixies crash server on place. · Issue #8 · minetest-mods/nixie_tubes · GitHub
15:42 Megaf         there https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6899
15:42 Megaf         I blame Krock
15:42 Megaf         I dont know how to properly name that issue tho
15:43 shivajiva     fix tested and pushed to master for sauth
15:44 shivajiva     rubenwardy: can you confirm ip6 handling is as expected now for sban?
15:45 Megaf         #5327
15:45 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5327 -- Fix various problems with sneaking by sfan5
15:45 Megaf         That should have never ever been merged
15:45 Megaf         for 6 years my players built and played based on sneak behaviour
15:46 Megaf         all minigames and parkour they created
15:46 Megaf         all hosues and buildings with sneak ladders
15:46 Megaf         all fall games where you used sneak to survive
15:46 Megaf         IhrFussel: does those line totally disable that merge?
15:47 shivajiva     it bypasses the new code and uses the old afaik
15:48 twoelk        how long will that work?
15:49 shivajiva     until we stop demanding it is included hopefully
15:50 twoelk        it depends on the old code kept in source, right?
15:51 shivajiva     yes
15:52 Megaf         I have no idea what I'm doing. Please review it. https://github.com/Megaf/minetest_gameplay_changes/blob/master/init.lua#L7
15:53 rubenwardy    no need to get overrides
15:53 rubenwardy    player:set_physics_override({ new_move = false,  sneak_glitch = true })
15:55 Megaf         rubenwardy: so, I just replace all the lines in the function with local player:set_physics_override({ new_move = false,  sneak_glitch = true }) ?
15:55 rubenwardy    no need for local
15:55 rubenwardy    it's not a variable
15:55 rubenwardy    it's a method call
15:55 Megaf         function register_on_joinplayer()
15:55 Megaf         player:set_physics_override({ new_move = false,  sneak_glitch = true })
15:55 Megaf         end
15:55 Megaf         that?
15:55 rubenwardy    yeah
15:56 rubenwardy    put with the correct player callback
15:57 Megaf         Again, I have no idea what Im doing
15:57 Megaf         I want this to be default and global
15:58 rubenwardy    lol
15:58 rubenwardy    jesus christ
15:58 rubenwardy    I thought that was pseudocode
15:59 IhrFussel     minetest.register_on_joinplayer(function(player) -- here player:set...... end)
15:59 rubenwardy    ^
16:02 * Megaf       just used what IhrFussel said
16:02 Megaf         I though it was weird, but you guys know much more than me.. so...
16:05 Megaf         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g246c6Bv58
16:05 Megaf         !title
16:05 MinetestBot   Megaf: Why Is Blue So Rare In Nature? - YouTube
16:07 Megaf         IhrFussel: rubenwardy: I DONT KNOW HOW TO CODE. Im very bad at it. All I can do is copy and paste. So please, if you could give me the whole thing to add to init.lua it would be great.
16:07 Megaf         I can't even talk/write properly
16:08 rubenwardy    https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/1061bd3eb24955d123ab4cebfc4beaa2
16:17 Megaf         is ok the ) after the end?
16:17 rubenwardy    yes
16:17 rubenwardy    it's a function as a parameter to a function
16:17 rubenwardy    it's a function as a parameter to a function call *
16:18 rubenwardy    learning modding is beneficial to server hosting, allows you to have custom features and fix buggy mods
16:19 Mr-Pardison   rubenwardy: I'm trying to change the activation key for the woodcutter mod. I made a post on here yesterday about it yesterday around this time.
16:19 rubenwardy    hmmm
16:20 rubenwardy    does it use get_player_controls()?
16:20 rubenwardy    you're unfortunately limited to what it submits
16:21 rubenwardy    although as soon as nerzhul finishes his input PR, I'd like to work on cleaning it up even more
16:21 rubenwardy    and allowing cross binding
16:21 nerzhul       rubenwardy, i need to hurry up then heh
16:21 rubenwardy    cross binding meaning using any type of control for an actual
16:21 rubenwardy    *action
16:21 rubenwardy    XD
16:21 Mr-Pardison   let me check.
16:22 rubenwardy    this would then lead on to allowing mods to register their own actions
16:22 rubenwardy    but maybe not for 0.5.0
16:22 Mr-Pardison   https://thepasteb.in/p/k5hYBlyD6PGsE
16:22 rubenwardy    yeah, it's hard coded to sneak currently
16:22 rubenwardy    you could use a different key such as aux1 (E)
16:23 Mr-Pardison   so, I would replace sneak with aux1 to change the control?
16:24 rubenwardy    yeah
16:24 rubenwardy    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3658
16:24 Mr-Pardison   thank you for your help with this.
16:52 Megaf         Thomas-S: Hi there
16:52 Thomas-S      Hello, Megaf!
16:52 Megaf         adding https://github.com/Thomas--S/streets_compatibility now
16:53 Thomas-S      Let's hope it won't cause problems :)
16:54 Megaf         starting server
16:54 Megaf         !server Megaf
16:54 MinetestBot   Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 13ms
16:54 * Mr-Pardison pulls the starter cord
16:54 Megaf         Mr-Pardison: it worked, server is running
17:08 Megaf         hm
17:08 Megaf         when I place homedecor:door_bedroom_left its not deducted from my inventory, nor it shows in the server log
17:09 Megaf         though when I dig it, it shows as dug and it increases in my inventory
17:17 Megaf         is sys4-fr on IRC?
17:17 Megaf         and davisonio
17:21 benrob0329    Idea that probably isn't reasonable in any way: make Minetest a library, that games depend on
17:21 benrob0329    Like, Love2D for example
17:21 Megaf         It was like that
17:21 Megaf         long time ago
17:21 benrob0329    It was a game, long time ago
17:22 Megaf         the standard was, all mods should work on minimal
17:22 benrob0329    ...not what i'm talking about
17:22 Megaf         and minetest_game was compatible with minimal
17:22 Megaf         benrob0329: you mean, full games?
17:22 benrob0329    Thats not a library
17:22 benrob0329    Thats just requiring cross game compatibility
17:22 Megaf         anything is a library
17:23 benrob0329    No
17:23 * Megaf       showing of his language skills again
17:23 benrob0329    Taking Love2D as one of the few Lua game engines
17:23 Mr-Pardison   a big book repository is a library.
17:24 benrob0329    Its an installable library that provides games functions and callbacks to plug into, and a cross platform runtime foe packaging
17:25 benrob0329    Minetest on the other hand, is a program with collections of mods and a set UI for everything
17:26 benrob0329    The games aren't what you're shown, its the engine
17:26 benrob0329    Games are written for the engine, rather than the engine for the games
17:27 benrob0329    IMHO, minetest should be a library games require() various components of, and define the mainmenu and distribution separately, ie Love2D
17:27 benrob0329    Rather than a mod-centric game, ie Gmod
17:32 benrob0329    If minetest was a library, a c api could be used instead of hardcoding lua, and other APIs could be written
17:32 benrob0329    Then people could stop complaining about lua
17:41 red-001       that's called adding your code to cmake and making minetest call it
17:47 benrob0329    Also, we should encourage core. rather than minetest. for future compatibility imo
17:49 Krock         core is also easier to type
17:49 * benrob0329  should go change his couple mods to do that
17:51 Megaf         So you make mods against core instead of MTG?
17:51 benrob0329    But if MT was a library, then games would theoretically be able to further customize the main menu, perhaps using worlds as levels or custom options
17:51 benrob0329    Megaf: not quite
17:51 benrob0329    You made games off core, mods off the game
17:52 benrob0329    Each game could be a different experience
17:53 twoelk        I thought mods actually use the running game as library
17:53 Megaf         first we have to make server totally hanging on map generation
17:56 twoelk        I had been experimenting with combining maps - I really wish it was easier to merge map content at the borders nicely
18:10 tenplus1      hi folks
18:11 Raven262      Hi ten
18:11 tenplus1      hi raven
18:11 RobbieF       hi tenplus1
18:11 tenplus1      hey robbie :)
18:11 tenplus1      how's all today ?
18:11 RobbieF       I'm well - how about you?
18:12 tenplus1      good thanks, got new pc desk :)
18:12 tenplus1      oh, and for anyone using windows 10 and amd chipset, be careful of windows "spectre" update, it can brick pc
18:12 Raven262      Oo
18:12 Raven262      Okay, not going to reboot to windows anyway.
18:13 RobbieF       oh nice tenplus1
18:13 RobbieF       tenplus1 MS halted the update on AMD systems because of it
18:13 tenplus1      hi nerzhul
18:13 benrob0329    Lol, professionalism amiright
18:13 RobbieF       lol
18:13 tenplus1      RobbieF: yeah but already downloaded updates waiting to GO will still bork things
18:13 tenplus1      hi benrob
18:13 * sofar       unable to comment due to company restrictions
18:13 RobbieF       "Oh, but our processors aren't susceptible!" - professionalism?  :D
18:13 tenplus1      hi sofar
18:14 RobbieF       tenplus1 too true
18:14 sofar         sup
18:14 tenplus1      friend of mine lost his desktop to this... had 23 updates cached and ready to rock once he booted up... then after reboot his pc was no more
18:15 benrob0329    Continuing from my "MT should be a library" thing from earlier
18:15 sofar         I've had a windows 10 system that has been unable to update for more than a year now
18:15 sofar         not that I care
18:15 sofar         it's always running linux anyway
18:15 tenplus1      better safe that sorry sofar...  clients pc keeps crashing desktop cause of updated radeon drivers, so updates arent always so hot
18:15 red-001       now here is a real question, is saying "no comment" a comment?
18:16 tenplus1      hi red
18:16 red-001       hi 11
18:16 benrob0329    We need to stop treating games as just a collection of mods. Minetest isn't fun, Minetest is an engine.
18:16 benrob0329    The games are fun, and we need to put them first.
18:17 tenplus1      minetest home page should have [mods] [textures] and [games] ready to vbiew
18:17 benrob0329    Not all games are alike, mods are game specific :-)
18:18 benrob0329    Textures too
18:18 tenplus1      yeah, textures can change the whole feel of a game
18:19 tenplus1      speaking of which, those melon textures were half assed by myself sofar
18:19 benrob0329    If a mod/texture pack works across multiple games, there should be a cross-posting feature in the forums
18:19 nerzhul       benrob0329, and Minetest is not just an engine, this should stop, minetest is a game framework :)
18:19 nerzhul       core side strong features should be there
18:19 sofar         tenplus1: lol
18:19 sofar         tenplus1: I just thought they looked familiar... that's why I asked
18:19 benrob0329    nerzhul: a framework is just a high level engine :-)
18:20 tenplus1      they were based on painterly, but redrawn and slapped together in gimp
18:20 benrob0329    Requiring me to unpack a game to a specific directory for it to even show up is stupid
18:22 benrob0329    The average person does not care about what engine a game uses, they care about what the game is.
18:22 tenplus1      true
18:24 benrob0329    Games should stand on their own, but right now all people see is Minetest, not Carbone, not Solar Planes, not InsideTheBox. They see Minetest, and some mod collections for it.
18:24 tenplus1      need to advertise the GAME with a subline of "built with Minetest Engine"
18:24 benrob0329    Exactly
18:25 benrob0329    Games stand alone, minetest works in the background
18:25 benrob0329    Mods should be written because the game is good, not because the game is bad.
18:30 benrob0329    carbone.mtg, voxelands.mtg, insidethebox.mtg
18:31 benrob0329    Clicking a game file would open them in minetest, with a custom menu and dedicated mods/worlds folders.
18:32 benrob0329    Games could include worlds for ex levels, and the menu could restrict multiplayer or worlds for progress
18:32 benrob0329    *eg
18:32 benrob0329    Heck, multiplayer could choose completely different worlds and be like Portal2 and its campaign
18:33 tenplus1      interesting idea
18:34 benrob0329    Very much inspired by Love2D (which has been use for decent commercial games!)
18:35 tenplus1      +1
18:37 benrob0329    It would be a huge breaking change though, so chances are it will never happen
18:38 tenplus1      :P
18:39 benrob0329    If modpacks suck, then let's stop treating games like they're modpacks
18:57 benrob0329    Alright, bbl folks o/
19:12 Fixer         hi
19:13 tenplus1      o/ Fixer
19:16 Mr-Pardison   \o Fixer
19:17 tenplus1      hi Mr-Pardison
19:17 Fixer         https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/microsoftsecure/2018/01/09/understanding-the-performance-impact-of-spectre-and-meltdown-mitigations-on-windows-systems/
19:17 Fixer         tenplus1 \o/ Mr-Pardison
19:18 Mr-Pardison   'ello tenplus1
19:18 Mr-Pardison   g2g now.
19:18 Mr-Pardison   will c y'all in a bit.,
19:24 Fixer         "How much did Intel pay M$ to brick AMD systems?" :D:D:D Slashdot
19:25 tenplus1      was thinking the same dude
19:25 tenplus1      "if we're going down the toilet we may as well take amd with us" kinda thing
19:26 tenplus1      hi aerozoic
19:26 aerozoic      hey wazup tenplus1
19:26 * tenplus1    drinks hot chocolate :P
19:27 aerozoic      tenplus1, after updating all the mods on my server last week, i realized how many GREAT mods you've made, so thanks!
19:28 tenplus1      :)
19:28 tenplus1      glad ya like 'em
19:28 Fixer         hmm
19:29 tenplus1      oh yeah, wine mod has been updated with it's own api :)
19:32 Megaf         17:26 -*- tenplus1 drinks hot chocolate :P
19:32 Megaf         :+1+
19:32 Megaf         I mean
19:32 tenplus1      ehehe, hi Megaf
19:32 Megaf         :+1:
19:33 Megaf         gotta go, cya
19:33 tenplus1      laters
19:36 * Mr_Pardison wants some hot chocolate....
19:36 tenplus1      ehe
19:58 Fixer         VanessaE: have you looked if spectre patches caused any performance changes on your minetest servers?
20:00 tenplus1      *shudder*
20:02 tenplus1      did the kernel update with the supposed fixes on ubuntu and it seems to be running well enough, no speed decreases
20:08 tenplus1      wb Krock
20:18 Krock         o/ tenplus1. ty
20:18 Mr-Pardison   considering making this into a fork: https://thepasteb.in/p/GZhW4nXGB9rUV
20:19 Mr-Pardison   only thing is that it interferes with fast running when using it.
20:19 tenplus1      aw
20:20 tenplus1      I like the idea of a cutting machine that cuts down leaves/trees and replants saplings :Sd
20:20 Mr-Pardison   and TommyTreasure just found a conflict with it.
20:20 Mr-Pardison   so, puttign the fork on hold.
20:21 Mr-Pardison   digtron.
20:21 Mr-Pardison   just build it tall enough.
20:26 TommyTreasure sure, blame it on me!  lol
20:26 tenplus1      ehehe, hi tommy
20:27 TommyTreasure hi tenplus1, and do i have a bunch of mob questions for you later on
20:27 tenplus1      I found it easier to add the super axe... cuts down a tree so fast but heavy on the diamonds
20:27 tenplus1      no worries
20:27 Mr-Pardison   so, looking at the player controls, I see that there are things called LMB and RMB. What are those and are they vital controls?
20:27 tenplus1      left mouse button and right mouse button I assume
20:28 * Mr-Pardison whacks himself with a frying pan
20:28 Mr-Pardison   my overtaxed brain missed that.
20:28 tenplus1      :P
20:28 TommyTreasure here's an abstract idea.  how about if it was disabled unless full range view was active?
20:28 Mr-Pardison   Might just have to put in a new player control given that all the ones that are listed are already used.
20:29 tenplus1      doesnt 0.5 have new player controls being added ? or is that still in discussion ?!?!
20:29 Mr-Pardison   huh.
20:30 TommyTreasure wouldn't that make the mod dependent on client version?
20:30 tenplus1      I just remember it being discussed...  custom controls and functions
20:30 Shara         New... controls...?
20:30 tenplus1      hi shara
20:30 tenplus1      lemmie find the issue.pull
20:31 Mr-Pardison   If 0.5 had more player controls (especially ones that are not vital and could be allocated to something else), that would be nice.
20:31 Shara         There might have been something about being able to set them to things more easily
20:31 Shara         Not sure though
20:32 tenplus1      trying to remember where I read about it... a function like minetest.register_key("key combination", on_press = function, on_release = function)
20:34 tenplus1      also I like the idea of a player being able to crawl on the ground, 1 high clearance :PP
20:34 Shara         Yea, that part I want
20:34 * Shara       wants a mod to grow/shrink players
20:35 tenplus1      ehehe, that coudl be done by potion :D
20:35 Shara         Yup
20:36 tenplus1      or we could punish bad players by shrinking them little by little :DDDD
20:36 Shara         Alice in Wonderland type of thing
20:36 TommyTreasure i kinda of remember a crawl key on one of the early tomb raider games
20:36 tenplus1      *drink me* potions
20:36 Shara         Yup
20:36 Amaz          And rabbit holes leading to magical realms... :)
20:36 tenplus1      ooh, good idea amaz :P
20:36 Shara         Would be a really nice mod
20:36 * tenplus1    likes alice in wonderland
20:36 Shara         And possibly could even fit with my subgame idea
20:37 Fixer         I did pretty simple "/emergeblocks (0,0,0) (-1000,-1000,-1000)" benchmark, it seems 14% slower since first time I've tested it
20:37 Shara         WHich I need to actually do some work on, but jobs and study and server things keep happening
20:37 tenplus1      busy start to the year shara
20:38 Shara         Seems like
20:41 tenplus1      hi ruben
20:42 rubenwardy    yo
20:43 Fixer         VanessaE: have you installed meltdown fixes on your server?
20:45 tenplus1      ooh, Threadripper version 2 is coming out :) niiiiice
20:49 * tenplus1    wishes for his genie to make mt-engine truly multi-core :P
20:49 Fixer         tenplus1: just one more year and you will be happy
20:50 Fixer         official moto of minetest, actually of open source in general
20:50 tenplus1      ooh, you know something ?
20:50 tenplus1      someone mentioned that talking between LUA and C++ is kinda slow, maybe looking into a way to speed that up somewhat would be good also :D
20:52 red-001       ffi
20:52 Mr_Pardison   lock them in a room and the only way to get out is to work together.
20:52 tenplus1      lolz
20:53 * red-001     greps logs for Fixer talking about one more year
20:54 rubenwardy    http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2013-06/msg00412.html
20:54 tenplus1      wb compunerd
20:54 rubenwardy    apparently they're roughly the same, and calling a C function is slightly faster
20:55 rubenwardy    maybe it's due to copying, and having to call multiple times?
20:55 tenplus1      ahh
20:55 rubenwardy    so LVM is faster than set_node because it builds everything and calls once
20:55 rubenwardy    rather than making a call per node
20:55 rubenwardy    tbh, I'm not sure about this
20:55 rubenwardy    need more time so I can improve Minetest whilst getting a degree and looking good to employers
20:56 tenplus1      :) all in a days work
20:56 rubenwardy    that benchmark is with a function that has no parameters and returns nothing
20:57 rubenwardy    meaning there's zero memory transfer
20:57 rubenwardy    well, you know what I mean
21:02 red-001       a lot of the preformence stuff I hear around these parts, tends to start off with "It's well known"
21:03 Mr_Pardison   g2g cya
21:03 rubenwardy    lol
21:03 rubenwardy    yeah, we need more performance gurus
21:04 rubenwardy    you can't just guess, as the compile does lots of magic
21:06 tenplus1      nite folks o/
21:06 rubenwardy    o/
21:07 Fixer         did some compile benchmarks, looks like spectre fix does not affect it much on my pc
21:08 IhrFussel     Ubuntu didn't release any fixes yet for 16.04
21:09 IhrFussel     Or at least no tested releases...they are available for testing but that's not suited for production servers
21:10 Fixer         https://www.ebay.com/itm/122892843527 looooooool
21:24 IhrFussel     https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-x86pti&num=2
21:24 IhrFussel     The IO benchmark is critical
21:25 IhrFussel     Wait is that even about Meltdown & Spectre since the article is from Jan 2 o.o
21:34 VanessaE      Fixer: My server got a new kernel the other day (cost me 400 days' of uptime) along with all other available updates.  it should be as safe as it can be.
21:48 sofar         https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=clear-kpti-retpoline&num=1
21:48 sofar         that's probably the article you want
21:49 sofar         IhrFussel: ^^
21:53 Fixer         VanessaE: what about performance? the same?
22:04 VanessaE      I haven't really compared.
23:03 Megaf         18:20 <tenplus1> I like the idea of a cutting machine that cuts down leaves/trees and replants saplings :Sd
23:03 Megaf         we have that in my server for over 4 years
23:06 Megaf         And I have a machine that is able to make anything that needs planks and things that come from plants automatically, at the same time
23:13 Fixer         supertuxkart is so much fun
23:15 Calinou       better than Rocket League
23:15 Calinou       (there's a meme about it)
23:16 benrob0329    both are fun :^)
23:17 benrob0329    and I don't care about either engine when playing :^)))
23:17 paramat       Shara in latest MT dev you can now grow/shrink players properly: visual size, collisionbox, eye height and step height are all settable per-player, it's what i've been working on a lot
23:18 benrob0329    paramat: nice
23:35 Shara         paramat: Yes, I know that's happening. It's one of the features I've been wanting for a long time to get :)
23:41 VanessaE      sofar: *poke*
23:43 * Megaf       grabs a glass of red wine and a bowl of ice cream
23:44 Megaf         VanessaE: I agree with you, about the rotation thing.
23:45 Megaf         oh boy, old player returned to my server out of the blue
23:45 Megaf         this is great
23:48 sofar         wut
23:48 sofar         VanessaE: hmmm?
23:48 VanessaE      sofar: I seem to have lost write access to minetest-mods/unified_inventory
23:49 VanessaE      (went to merge a PR, found I had no rightsa)
23:49 VanessaE      -a
23:49 sofar         eww
23:49 sofar         no good
23:49 sofar         me fix
23:49 VanessaE      thanky :)
23:49 Megaf         speaking of unified_inventory, how do I add new skins to it?
23:50 sofar         nore: did you do anything weird when you migrated stuff out of minetest-technic?
23:51 sofar         VanessaE: fixed, weird there were no contributors at all in there
23:51 sofar         VanessaE: I think it sent an invite link
23:52 sofar         meuh, technic is still properly setup
23:52 * Megaf       laughs
23:52 Megaf         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWiPROxS2HA
23:52 Megaf         !title
23:52 MinetestBot   Megaf: Top 100 Viral Videos of the Year 2017 - YouTube