Time Nick Message 00:12 paramat i'm interested in having it, but not much interested in coding it :) 00:24 Fixer oops 00:35 * Megaf could be you-know-who and you would never imagine that 00:46 Megaf I just did a /emergeblocks here 5000 00:46 Megaf I wonder what will happen 00:47 Megaf ]Segmentation fault 00:47 Megaf That ^ 01:05 Megaf so? 01:27 IhrFussel What the heck was THAT ... it was a one-time spike it seems 2017-12-28 02:00:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.150 (0 over 0.5 s, 0 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 0.50000) 2017-12-28 02:01:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.221 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 19.49998) 2017-12-28 02:02:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.150 (0 over 0.5 s, 0 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 0.50000) 01:33 Megaf Oh boy, I just found an old computer of mine, Athlon XP 2800+ in my closet 01:33 Megaf plugged it in, and its bootin!!! 01:36 Megaf oh boy, what password and users were I using several years ago? 01:37 IhrFussel Guys, are such extreme lag spikes normal with VPS? Or was that likely something rare? 01:37 Megaf I'd blame Minetest 01:38 IhrFussel I can't blame MT when the avg lag was 0.150 99% of the time for hours and now suddenly and only once it says avg lag 0.221 with max_lag 19 01:40 sfan5 you can blame MT 01:42 IhrFussel I checked the logs...there is nothing that could've caused a 20 second lag at that time ... it must either been an external process or someone hogging the shared CPU...not sure 01:47 IhrFussel Maybe daily backup?? I will watch the behavior 01:52 Megaf oh boy, there's a Minetest server in this computer that was in my closet 01:52 Megaf oh boy 01:55 IhrFussel Off for the night, see ya 02:15 Sokomine megaf: one of your old servers? 02:15 * Sokomine looks intrested 02:15 Megaf Sokomine: early times of current V4 version 02:15 Megaf server* 02:15 Megaf 179.179.75.90 30003 02:15 Megaf try to connect please 02:16 Megaf you have to enable support for older servers 02:16 Megaf 0.4.9 :) 02:31 Sokomine moment please :-) 02:50 Megaf sofar: sfan5: I found an old 0.4.9 server of mine. I could connect to it just fine from a 0.4.16 client enabling the options to support old servers in advanced menu. But it looks like when other people try to connect, all they get is time out. Yet in the servers console it shows they entered wrong password. Any ideas? 02:55 benrob0329 Found a problem with aliveai, it spawns waay too many mobs 03:15 Sokomine benrob0329: perhaps. but they're very entertaining mobs 03:17 Sokomine would really love to take a look at megafs old world but can't seem to connect. not even with older clients 03:18 Megaf It might work now 03:25 Sokomine thanks :-) it does work. nice to see an old map back again even if i hadn't built anything there 03:30 Megaf I like the old textures 03:35 Sokomine some where better. some not so 03:35 Sokomine it's a mixed feeling... 03:36 Sokomine at least cobble was stonebrick. that looked less bad on houses 03:56 benrob0329 Sokomine: the problem is that it gets really laggy 03:56 benrob0329 like boats are unusable, more than usual 05:48 Megaf mt.megaf.info is pinging where for you? 05:48 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info 30003 05:48 MinetestBot mt.megaf.info:30003 is up (10ms) 05:48 Megaf oh 05:52 Megaf !server Megaf 05:52 MinetestBot Megaf: No results 05:52 Megaf good night 05:52 sofar Megaf: the init sequence changed several revisions ago, it's possible the new client no longer understands the old sequence 05:53 Megaf sofar: sfan5: it was a missconfiguration of my local network 05:53 Megaf It s just weird the terminal reporting wrong password 05:53 Megaf the correct was time out the client was seeing 05:53 Megaf well, good night, and thanks 07:59 jas_ #6737 paramat it may be Low priority now, but I'd consider it High priority for a later release, if it included the touchscreen controls. 07:59 jas_ aw 07:59 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6737#issuecomment-354246374 07:59 jas_ !title 07:59 MinetestBot jas_: Add main_menu_style setting by PorygonZRocks · Pull Request #6737 · minetest/minetest · GitHub 12:14 Aerozoic Wazup peeps. Anybody know why worldedit doesn't have a //cube command? 12:19 Megaf !server Megaf 12:19 MinetestBot Megaf: No results 12:21 Megaf !server Megaf 12:21 MinetestBot Megaf: No results 12:21 rubenwardy how do I fix the lighting after placing a large schematic? 12:21 rubenwardy LVM? 12:27 Megaf rubenwardy: select areas around it and replace air air 12:27 rubenwardy heh 12:27 rubenwardy that sounds inefficient 12:28 rubenwardy this is going to be done by a mod, and needs to be as fast as possible 12:29 rubenwardy ah, there's core.fix_light 12:29 rubenwardy I'll try that 12:35 rubenwardy aah damit it, it's because there stone above there 12:36 Megaf Thanks 12:36 Megaf !server Megaf 12:36 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | 5.196.88.227:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms 12:37 Megaf !server Megaf 12:37 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms 12:37 Megaf better 12:50 IhrFussel 2017-12-28 07:26:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.275 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 27.44995) +++ 2017-12-28 12:01:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.262 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 25.79996) +++ 2017-12-28 13:26:14: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.376 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 44.25007) 12:50 IhrFussel You CANNOT run a game server under such terrible circumstances 12:50 Jordach says the person running a 2009 CPU 12:51 Jordach :thinking: 12:51 IhrFussel This is a VPS now 12:51 Jordach kektus 12:51 Jordach DO VPS weren't bad 12:51 IhrFussel 99% of the time PERFECT steps ... and then those huge lags once in a while 12:52 IhrFussel My 2009 dedi never had such lags...it had consistent 1-2 sec lags 12:53 IhrFussel I just called my hoster asking what kind of f*ckery that is and they told me to watch it some more and open a ticket with a screenshot of the lag times 13:00 sfan5 well yes 13:01 sfan5 on a dedi you get consistent performance (even if that perf is bad) 13:01 sfan5 on a vps you get good performance, but due to resource sharing that performance is inconsistent 13:04 IhrFussel 30+ secs lag is unacceptable for every kind of service...you cannot even reliable host a website on such a machine...but you know what's weird? I was able to use commands WHILE MT lagged so long...so was it just IO? 13:04 Jordach >400mhz DDR2 13:04 Jordach there's your problem 13:05 IhrFussel I'm not talking about my dedi, my new VPS has much better hardware 13:05 IhrFussel But top showed only 0.50 load...that doesn't sound like a lot 13:06 Jordach run screenfetch or similar to get CPU info 13:07 IhrFussel It's not the hardware since MT runs *perfectly* outside of those extreme one-time spikes 13:07 IhrFussel Or at least not the specs* 13:07 Jordach still wise to get actual on paper specs 13:07 Jordach and what mods do you ru 13:08 IhrFussel The VPS is so powerful it stays at 0.15 max_lag with EIGHT players 13:08 IhrFussel Trust me when I say it's not the specs...either another customer hogs the CPU at times or my hoster got an I/O problem 13:09 Jordach it's why i asked you to show me your specs and modlist 13:10 IhrFussel 175 mods...all kinds of mods and the mods don't lag the server...maybe sometimes when many players use them excessively max_lag goes up to 0.5 but then quickly goes back to 0.15 which is the step interval I set (it can't go lower) 13:11 IhrFussel There is no details about the RAM lshw just says "12 Gib memory" 13:11 Jordach run screenfetch or similar 13:12 Jordach CPU information will probably help 13:12 IhrFussel model name : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v3 @ 2.50GHz 13:13 IhrFussel I see 6 "cores" cause my VPS has 6 vCores 13:14 Jordach https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2390&cmp[]=2185 13:14 Jordach my server runs the Atom 13:15 Jordach and never goes above 0.1 max_lag 13:15 Jordach scaleway generally has good shit, they're just unfortunately out of stock at the moment 13:16 IhrFussel Like I said I'm sure iI could run my world @ 0.05 steps but I don't want to...I optimized my mods to operate at 0.15 sec steps 13:16 Jordach why'd you think i do critical things for SP in their own time 13:17 IhrFussel Since this is a VPS now the most logical reason for those one-time spikes is some asshole that's hogging the CPU for a bit with his heavy script 13:19 IhrFussel But I wonder...if it's really the CPU why could I still run top and it updated every sec?? Shouldn't it freeze then? 13:19 Jordach scrypt mining* 13:19 Megaf IhrFussel: we have 3 players now in my server, the only thing that makes the lag spike badly is mapgen 13:19 Megaf !server Megaf 13:19 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 3/10, 1/3 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 10ms 13:19 Jordach my server is all SSDs top to bottom 13:19 Megaf It's running on a very old Atom 13:20 IhrFussel Is it more likely that I/O blocked the MT process since I was able to watch top as it happened?? 13:21 IhrFussel Unfortunately I wasn't fast enough to run iotop =/ ... I hope I can catch the next huge lag and run that 13:24 IhrFussel Do you also share storage with others on a VPS? 13:26 sfan5 yes 13:30 IhrFussel Then I'm honestly leaning more towards it being an I/O problem ... we all know the server thread in MT lags as long as I/O is blocked 13:31 IhrFussel I just don't know if 1 customer can block the I/O for all other customers 13:40 Megaf date palm trees still crashing http://paste.debian.net/plain/1002688 13:40 Megaf [11:31:51] I just don't know if 1 customer can block the I/O for all other customers 13:40 Megaf bad design 13:40 Megaf not only from MT, but for PCs 13:44 IhrFussel Megaf, but do you think it's actually possible with shared storage? I really want to pinpoint the issue as detailed as possible when I open the support ticket... 13:45 IhrFussel They told me on the phone if I convince them enough they may move my VM to another, less crowded cluster 13:46 Megaf I dont think another VM in the cluster would hog your IO 13:47 sfan5 it is definitely possible 13:47 sfan5 but their system should be set up to fairly share resources between VMs 13:48 IhrFussel Something just made MT lag for 8 secs again :/ it's not as much as 30+ at least 13:49 Megaf IhrFussel: mapgen? 13:49 IhrFussel No, mapgen doesn't really lag anymore on this VPS ... but it would be awkward if it did considering this crazy CPU 13:50 Megaf my server is yet again lagging badly to load terrain 13:50 IhrFussel But that means mapgen lags on weaker hardware which is still an issue I' say... if you want you can pretty much eliminate any kind of performance issue if your specs are top notch 13:51 IhrFussel That's not the solution though 13:51 Megaf as I said, too easy coding for fast hardware 13:52 IhrFussel The CPU my VPS uses costs $ 1,000 or more 13:52 Megaf and a 300 USD or less Ryzen CPU will be much quicker now a days :) 13:54 IhrFussel I don't even need 12 GB RAM ... I had to take that much cause there was no other configuration available 13:55 Shara Hi all 13:56 IhrFussel Hey Shara ... are you running your servers on a VPS? 13:56 Shara Fussel, nice to see you're making some progress. And yes, both of mine are on VPS, one with OVH and the other with Scaleways. 13:57 IhrFussel Ever had such huge lags? Or inconsistent performance? 13:57 Shara Not like you seem to get. 13:57 Shara I've always been able to trace any lag issues to specific things 13:58 IhrFussel So the lags were caused by your own machine? Or external? 13:58 Shara Usually by MT or mods 13:59 IhrFussel Well then you must be pretty lucky to not have experienced ***holes that hog your shared CPU 13:59 Megaf I'm sure this would run Minetest server reasonably well, https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3706631 13:59 Shara The worst case was some time back on DarkLands when players joining or performing actions that involved auth file checks brought the server to a halt, and sauth fixed that 13:59 Megaf !title 13:59 MinetestBot Megaf: Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more - Newegg.com 13:59 Shara Fussel, which provider do you use? 13:59 Megaf 34 3,4GHz threads 13:59 Megaf 32* 14:00 Shara A good provider should be set up to handle that kind of things 14:00 IhrFussel Strato ... it's pretty much the biggest German hoster 14:00 Shara thing* 14:00 Shara Big doesn't mean good 14:00 Shara But don't really know anything about them. 14:00 IhrFussel I know but I also have my dedi there so I figured I'd stay for the VPS 14:01 Shara Either way, if you cannot actually use the resources you are meant to have, talk to them about it. 14:02 IhrFussel Just now 2017-12-28 15:00:42: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.185 ... MAX LAG: 7.050 14:02 IhrFussel It's way worse than a few hours ago now 14:02 Shara Can you find out what MT actually did to cause that? 14:03 IhrFussel It's not caused by MT... it's 99% caused by another customer 14:03 Shara Regardless of whether it should have caused such lag or not, MT will have still done something. 14:03 Shara But if you alreayd know that's the issue, just talk to them 14:03 Shara already* 14:04 IhrFussel My server runs with 0.150 steps for hours and then suddenly a 40+ sec spike...I cannot blame MT for that 14:05 Shara It can quite easily be in MT or amod. 14:05 IhrFussel And nobody uses WE either..WE is the only mod that could cause such numbers 14:05 Shara Even if not frequent 14:05 Shara As an example, I run one specific mod on RedCat that I know for a fact can crash the server. 14:05 Shara However I choose not to remove the mod or address the crash, because the fix would be worse than the occasional crash 14:06 Shara It crashes me maybe once every two months. 14:06 Shara Just because it's somethign rarely triggered doesn't mean it's to do with my hosting. 14:07 IhrFussel The lag is almost never high now only when those mysterious spikes happen https://pastebin.com/5R9rPDEb 14:08 Shara Then talk to your provider if you are sure it's on their side. 14:08 IhrFussel There is no mod that only runs something every X minutes/hours 14:09 Shara Doesn't need to be timed; it can be something a player triggers, or a rare thing in mapgen. 14:09 IhrFussel I already called them...they said it it doesn't stop I need to open a support ticket and attach a screenshot of the lag times 14:09 Shara I've seen people use mesecons machines to insta-lag out a server for example. 14:09 Shara Then do that 14:09 IhrFussel if it* 14:10 Shara Wonder if I should also do an official release of my mesecons restrictions mod... 14:10 Shara So many messy mods to tidy :( 14:10 IhrFussel Should I only include the lines where the lag was high or also some lines where it was low so that they see it#s very inconsistent? 14:11 Shara I'd show them something so then can also see what's normal 14:11 Shara And explain why you're sure the problem isn't on your side 14:12 Megaf 2017-12-28 14:11:17: [Server] CHAT: HOLYSHIT 14:12 Megaf 2017-12-28 14:11:43: [Server] CHAT: well, you not getting interact... 14:12 Megaf Server] CHAT: WTF IS WRONG WITH THESE ADMINS THEY ARE RUDE 14:12 Megaf 2017-12-28 14:12:30: [Server] CHAT: YOUSONOFABITCH!!!!!! 14:12 Megaf ] 14:12 Megaf if you want to ban this guy in advance from your server... 14:13 Shara Unless it's related to some very specific things, I only ban for actions actually on my servers 14:14 Aerozoic Same ^ 14:15 Shara There's some exceptions, like predatory behaviour of certain kinds that I'm happy to advance ban for, but when it comes to insults and swearing, you may as well advance ban hundreds of players a day if you start that. 14:16 IhrFussel Megaf, I have a player with a very similar name ... if it's them they probably didn't complain cause interact is default in my world xD 14:16 Shara I sometimes get people screaming... in perfect english... about how my server is terrible because they don't have interact... when all they need to do is read some signs... in english... to get it. :) 14:18 Megaf great, I ban the guy and server seg faults 14:18 Megaf 2017-12-28 14:18:07: [Server] UnspeakableGame leaves game. List of players: Megaf Hamza568 14:18 Megaf ]Segmentation fault 14:18 Megaf gotta love MT reliability 14:22 sfan5 open an issue with a backtrace 14:35 Calinou 2017-12-28 14:12:30: [Server] CHAT: YOUSONOFABITCH!!!!!! 14:35 Calinou sounds like they just broke their space bar 14:36 Megaf hah 14:43 Jordach kek 14:45 Megaf !server Megaf 14:45 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms 14:45 Megaf ok, updated homedecor, moretrees and the engine 14:45 Megaf maybe my bugs were fixed already 14:46 Megaf lol 14:46 Megaf I just updated homedecor and now stuff went missing 14:49 Megaf defuck creative was added as dep to homedecor!?!?!?! 14:49 Megaf Why would a mod depend on creative!? 14:50 Shara Check the mod to see what needs it? 14:50 Megaf VanessaE: why? https://github.com/minetest-mods/homedecor_modpack/commit/1471a0cba91f4fca0c00d502ac6b7e880e7594f7#diff-b12aa140a7c73abdcce63bd23f3e9edeR4 14:50 Megaf Shara: vanessa jsut decided to add creative as dep to her mods 14:50 Megaf that just breaks my server, thank you very much 14:51 Megaf eveyday you people push me more and more away from Minetest, 14:51 VanessaE Megaf[m]: fix your busted install then. 14:51 Megaf keep doing this great job. Soon you will see me vanished from here 14:51 Megaf no more complains. 14:51 VanessaE if you don't want creative mode TURN IT OFF IN YOUR CONFIG. 14:51 VanessaE don't just delete the mod. 14:51 Calinou you should ask for a refund :) 14:52 Megaf Calinou: name me a person to as for refund 14:52 sfan5 thatsthejoke.jpeg 14:52 Megaf I've put thousands of dollares in this shit already 14:52 Megaf dolalrs* 14:52 Megaf I cant spell 14:52 Megaf but still 14:52 Calinou Minetest and mods are provided without warranty, with no promise of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose 14:52 Calinou read the license :) 14:52 Shara Megaf, though I don't necessarily agree that requiring people to use MTG exactly as it is is a great approach for well established mods, complaints and threating to leave don't generally help get things resolved. 14:53 Megaf Im spending between 20 and 40 USD/month since 2012 in Minetest 14:53 Shara threatening* 14:53 VanessaE Megaf: and it depends on creative because it has to inquire if the user has creative capability for the sake of inventory management. 14:53 Aerozoic I'm on Megaf's side. MT should come with a warning that says it's WAYYYYY below quality standards, even for a free game. 14:53 Megaf I dont have a job. I quit doing lots of nice things in my life so I could run Minetest server 14:53 sfan5 VanessaE: shouldn't it optionally depend on creative then? 14:54 Shara ^ 14:54 Megaf for that money I can have ulimited cinema or ulimined gym or ulimited 4G internet in my phone 14:54 Megaf yet I decided to spend moeny I dont have in Minetst 14:54 VanessaE sfan5: no, because it calls some functions in that mod. 14:54 sfan5 i know that 14:54 Megaf for 6 fucking years 14:54 Shara Megaf: it's your choice. Just like all of us choose what we are or are not willing to do for MT. 14:54 Megaf to only get my hardware blamed 14:55 Megaf I'm absolutely fed up 14:55 Shara Personally I shrugged my shoulders and made my own fork of homedecor long ago, but I don't complain about it. 14:55 Megaf if you just fork you stay away from some very good and welcome improvements 14:55 Shara Of course, but again, that's my choice 14:55 VanessaE ok I give up. if you're not gonna listen to me then just piss off. 14:55 Megaf in my server it was a big celebration every single homedecor updated 14:56 * VanessaE wanders off. 14:56 sfan5 VanessaE: you could have `local has_creative = mintest.get_modpath("creative") and creative.is_enabled_for or function() return false end` 14:56 Megaf we used to gather together to see what was new in homedecor 14:56 Shara And I can always choose to add in new things if I want to anyway 14:56 sfan5 that preserves compatibility with non-minetest_game and still solves the problem 14:58 VanessaE sfan5: I could, but why bother when disabling/deleting the creative mod entirely is simply the wrong way to disable that mode (versus creative_mode = false in minetest.conf) 14:58 Megaf VanessaE: and guess what, my brain is fucked up too. I worked fucking hard for 12 years just so I could walk properly and been working my whole life just so people can tell me I'm weird 14:58 VanessaE Megaf: um..your point? 14:58 sfan5 that depends on whether you explicitly support non-minetest_game 14:58 Megaf None, YET 14:58 sfan5 if you don't then you don't need to bother 14:58 Jordach >tfw you make your own game so Minetest_Game doesn't do stupid things 14:58 VanessaE sfan5: and I don't. 14:58 sfan5 well then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 14:58 Megaf [12:58:37] >tfw you make your own game so Minetest_Game doesn't do stupid things 14:58 Calinou Aerozoic: the README does include such a notice :) 14:58 Megaf precisely 14:59 Aerozoic oh XD 14:59 Megaf Jordach, the very reason I have my own game now homedecor and other mods are not working anymore 14:59 Megaf just because I dont have creative in my SURVIVAL game 14:59 Calinou Aerozoic: problem is, if you scare people off they won't even try it 14:59 VanessaE sfan5: so if Megaf wants to keep doing non-standard stuff that breaks things, he's welcome to all the headaches that brings with it. 15:00 Shara Megaf: Personally I would love to see big mods like homedecor offer support beyond MTG, but asking politely is usually a much better approach and makes people more willing to consider helping you. 15:00 Megaf the only non standard things in my subgame is the lack of TNT, Screwdriver and Creative 15:01 Megaf and the very reason I dont have them is the lack of quality control and security in Minetest 15:04 Megaf Now, I still think homedecor is one of the greatest mods in Minetest. We all love it. I'm just not buying the dependencie in creative. Specially after 5 or 6 years of using it without creative. 15:06 Megaf and if creative is there just disabled, but with its functions enabled, CSM could then easily hack into it 15:08 Megaf I wonder what else now depends on creative. 15:11 VanessaE um.. 15:12 VanessaE csm is client-side, Megaf. creative mod is server side 15:12 Megaf csm can do whatever it wants currently 15:12 VanessaE I don't see how your claim is remotely possible. 15:12 VanessaE csm can't do anything the server forbids.... 15:12 sfan5 ah yes the uninformed csm bashing 15:13 VanessaE (as long as it can enforce the forebiddance) 15:13 Megaf let me put in other words, quoting myself from somewhere else 15:13 Megaf [13:07:24] A mod installed yet disabled, having it's functions available to other mods. That sounds like a terrible designed and security flaw to me 15:13 Megaf [13:07:43] design* 15:14 VanessaE bullshit. 15:14 Megaf If I am mistanek, then please enlighten me 15:14 Megaf mistaken* 15:14 VanessaE no. 15:14 VanessaE we've tried, you refuse to listen 15:14 VanessaE so fuck it. 15:14 VanessaE I ain't gonna waste my time. 15:15 sfan5 Megaf: do you mean "creative_mode = false" as a way of disabling the creative mod? 15:15 VanessaE yes, he does. 15:15 Megaf sfan5: I don't know. I want to understand how that works 15:16 Megaf I see creative inside a directory called mods 15:16 Megaf if I remove creative from there and put in the servers mod, and set it to enable = false in world.mt, it will be disabled 15:16 sfan5 being able to reactivate creative functionality despite creative_mode=false is a feature 15:16 Megaf how is that different from removing creative altogether or setting creative_mode = false? 15:17 sfan5 methods 1 and 2 result in creative not being loaded at all 15:17 Megaf It looks like creative is always there, active, regardless of true or false 15:17 Megaf all it does is changes the inventory behaviour 15:17 sfan5 method 3 just says "by default nobody is able to use creative mode features" 15:17 Megaf that for me, deosnt matter at all, since I dont use standard inventory 15:18 sfan5 uh 15:18 sfan5 yes 15:21 paramat Megaf creative not being a dependency was a bug in the mod that was fixed, so coooool it :) we can help you code around this 15:25 Megaf That is a good anwer to my ugly question 15:25 Megaf sfan5: so you see? Apart from homedecor and moretrees maybe, creative is totally irrelevant 15:26 sfan5 yes 15:27 sfan5 but creative provides an API which homedecor uses, meaning homedecor requires a full minetest_game installation to function 15:27 sfan5 i don't see the problem here (apart from the missing support for non-MTG subgames) 15:29 paramat why is creative mod a 'lack of quality control and security' issue? what harm is there using it? 15:30 paramat if anything is broken we'll fix it 15:30 paramat not having that mod will just cause you problems in future 15:30 Shara I think it's a general dislike of running mods that you have no intention of using 15:31 * benrob0329 reads backlog, and walks away 15:33 paramat if the 'player creative priviledge' is the only dependency there's a 1 line way around that 15:35 paramat however, easiest just to use creative mod 15:37 paramat what are the quality control and security issues of TNT and Screwdriver mods? they seem fine, again, leaving those out will just cause you grief, like today =) 15:40 Shara paramat: quite a lot of servers delete tnt 15:40 Shara I was even advised to by a developer 15:41 Megaf paramat: while CSM = true; $everything == NotSafe 15:42 Shara Megaf: I really would love to see CSM removed, but there's no point blaming everything on it. Some things are safe because the server does control them correctly 15:42 Megaf And the best thing to prove me wrong, is trying to prove me right, that is the scietific method 15:43 paramat yeah might as well leave TNT out if it's not needed 15:43 Megaf I've seen people building without interact, flying without fly. Wiping chests and opening doors with screwdriver 15:43 Megaf you see quite a lot of things in 6 years of Minetest 15:43 Shara I would just like to see the major mods be as flexible as possible in terms of what they can work with. 15:44 Megaf things that devs arriving in the last 3 years wouldnt even dream to be possible at all 15:44 Megaf I have used the screwdriver myself to exploit other servers 15:44 paramat do open an issue about screwdrivers opening doors, we'll try to fix it. but again, you could leave that out if not needed 15:45 Megaf IMHO the same goes to ANY mod that I dont use. 15:45 paramat ok fair enough 15:45 Megaf the only "mod" I want is "default" 15:45 Megaf I dont need carts, tnt, screwdriver, creative, fire 15:45 Megaf nor farming 15:46 paramat but if you don't open issues it won't get fixed 15:46 Megaf I rewrote those from scratch myself, used another implementations or just dont use them 15:46 Megaf if creative is 100% essential to Minetest, then it's FUNCTIONS should be in default 15:46 Megaf since all we need is a simple check 15:47 Megaf It's not just about be bitching about creative, it's about choice, it's about consitency and security 15:47 Megaf I see things inside a palce called mods, as mods. 15:47 Megaf If they are not mods, then I'm sorry 15:47 Megaf I must have skipped that lesson 15:49 paramat no, a game is a collection of mods, MTG is 15:49 paramat and we separate it into mods for good reason 15:50 paramat anyway, is there a specific problem with creative? 15:50 paramat afaik homedecor just needs a 1 line fix to not need creative 15:50 Shara paramat: you yourself know that part of why server owners prefer it seperated is so they can just drop bits they don't want 15:50 paramat exactly 15:51 paramat VanessaE what part of creative does homedecor use? is it just checking the player creative priv? 15:55 VanessaE it uses the is-enabled-for call. 15:56 paramat ok easy fix 15:56 VanessaE ..in multiple places 15:56 paramat oh 15:57 paramat well still possibly easy 15:57 Megaf paramat: Couldn't we write a creative-lite thingy just to implement that function? 15:57 VanessaE anywhere that homedecore or one of its sub mods has to manage the player's inventory (f.ex deducting an item to replace it with something else) 15:57 VanessaE -ew 15:57 VanessaE -e* 15:58 Megaf I understand VanessaE's point. Maybe that function should be in default isntead of creative. 15:58 paramat Megaf 'yes we can' 15:58 VanessaE probably still easy but the fault lies with Megaf's install. 15:58 Shara VanessaE: would you still be willing to change it if someone made a PR? 15:59 Megaf as is for now, homedecor only works in minetest_game, with a simple change to "default" her mod and many other would work in other subgames 15:59 Shara I'm torn about the disabling creative part myself, because it seems so vital to me, but then I am in favour of mods having that level of flexibility 15:59 Megaf and freedom of choice would be given back to admins 15:59 VanessaE Shara: debatable... what happens when someone else decides they don't want some other mt_game component that HD uses? 15:59 Shara How many others are there people could dispute? 15:59 VanessaE idk 15:59 paramat well, that creative priv check has to be in creative, it can't be moved 16:00 VanessaE but I don't dare to guess. 16:00 Megaf hold on 16:00 Megaf let me check something 16:00 Shara Looking at depends, creative is the only obvious one I see 16:00 paramat i'll gist a creative-lite mod in a minute 16:00 * Megaf doesnt really want to change HD 16:01 Megaf paramat: no need for now, wait a sec please 16:01 VanessaE like I said, the proper way to fix this is to not disable the creative mod and instead turn off the modE in minetest.conf 16:01 Megaf I might code something here myself, Im reading the code 16:01 Megaf homedecor check does make sense, doesn't it? 16:02 paramat add a mod called 'creative' with https://gist.github.com/paramat/d92f05790c5195f4931a54dad5b4b7db as init.lua 16:03 paramat that will then also help with any other mod that uses that function 16:03 VanessaE Shara: that said, people have in the past tried to remake 'default', breaking mods (including mine) along the way. so I have to draw the line somewhere. "don't disable whole mods that are part of minetest_game" is as reasonable place to put said line as I can think of. 16:04 VanessaE as reasonable a place* 16:04 paramat any issues with that gist let me know 16:05 Shara VanessaE: I just find it a pretty sad stance for the maintainers of popular mods to take, since it creates a huge barrier for other subgames and even slight customisations of MTG. When a bit more flexibility would be possible, it is nice to see it, but I do understand your stance as well. 16:06 VanessaE Shara: like I said, I have no choice but to draw a line in the sand. 16:07 Megaf minetest@Platinum:~/MegafServer/BinMegafServer$ ls games/MegafXploreNext 16:07 Megaf game_api.txt game.conf LICENSE.txt menu README.txt settingtypes.txt 16:07 * Megaf hides 16:07 VanessaE Megaf wants to break his mt_game install, fine with me, it's just up to him to deal with the fallout 16:07 Shara I know, but it's still sad given homedecor is mostly just adding content that could easily work in any game. 16:09 VanessaE Shara: besides, homedecor uses public API functions in the creative mod and has for months or years. should I start adding checks everywhere for other mt_game mods that it uses. 16:09 VanessaE ? 16:09 VanessaE it's only last week that I updated depends.txt accordingly. 16:10 VanessaE because I had simply forgotten about it 16:10 Shara I'd need to spend some time checking exactly what the mod does to even start forming an answer, and since I have no interest in using official homedecor for reasons I already lost count of, I'm not going to do that. 16:10 VanessaE no interest D: 16:10 Shara Sorry - I love the mod but it simply has too many issues for me. 16:10 VanessaE oh well 16:11 VanessaE can't please everyone I guess. :( 16:11 Megaf Well, it has only a single issue for me... 16:11 Shara It's one of those annoying dilemas, since I don't want to run my own version w hen it comes down to it, b ut I feel I have to, so I just get on with it 16:11 VanessaE I'm just sorry I can't really code anymore. :-/ 16:11 Shara I still feel like I never could even to begin with :D 16:12 Megaf I can't even spell... 16:12 Shara homedecor would be nicer if it was lots of seperate mods, but that's just my preference 16:12 VanessaE it is :) 16:12 Shara ANd I also don't know if all the issues I identified previously are still present or not 16:12 Megaf Shara: it is, it's a modpack 16:12 VanessaE but you mean even more separated 16:12 Megaf you can enable and disable stuff in it 16:12 Shara VanessaE: Yes, the main homedecor mod itself. 16:12 VanessaE Megaf: she wants homedecore itself split apart too 16:13 VanessaE -e 16:13 Megaf oh 16:13 Shara There's things I want, and things I don't want, and after a while it gets messy 16:13 VanessaE some day maybe I will 16:13 VanessaE but not now. 16:13 Shara depends was another issue that made me fork 16:13 Shara But again, I consider that my own choice 16:14 VanessaE at this point I'm lucky I can think clearly enough and type well enough to chat. coding? fuhgeddaboutit. 16:14 Shara For example, I didn't want to have unifieddyes on my server, because that's just about crafting, and a creative doesn't need crafting 16:14 Shara Hehe 16:14 Megaf well, my issue was sorted out by paramat 16:14 Shara :) 16:14 Megaf I have the function homedecor needs, problem solved 16:15 Megaf maybe the function could be part of default 16:15 Shara Awesome 16:15 VanessaE Megaf: and you'll notice he did it by un-breaking your modified mt_game :P 16:15 Shara Megaf: I think it was already explained it can't be moved to default 16:15 VanessaE [12-28 10:59] well, that creative priv check has to be in creative, it can't be moved 16:15 Shara ^ 16:16 Megaf Sorry, I totally missed that 16:16 Shara In the end there's just a whole bunch of decisions that have to be made about how larger mods/modpacks are run, and they won't suit everyone. Doesn't make those choices wrong, just different. 16:18 Megaf sofar: Just to let you know, I added your remote media server to my main server now. I'm using latest homedecor, mesecons, pipeworks, moretrees, moreblocks, moreores, you have all of those? 16:19 VanessaE Shara: so anyway..um... file some issues so we can sort out what you don't like. 16:20 VanessaE on an unrelated, offtopic note 16:20 * VanessaE grumbles at the pile of 3d printed parts on her desk 16:20 VanessaE (can't put them together, waiting on some bits and bobs in the mail) 16:25 Megaf Shara: you know adv trains mod? 16:25 Megaf I added it to my server, pretty neat 16:36 Megaf hi Krock 16:37 benrob0329 Neat, but the steam locomotive models are...*cough* 16:38 benrob0329 I started to redo the detailed one, need to finish that 16:44 Shara Megaf: Poke me in an hour or so and I can come check it out if you like 16:47 Shara VanessaE: If I can crawl to the top of my own "must fix this mod yesterday!!" heap, I might grab current homedecor and take a look, but I really would have to test most of my previous issues again before spamming you with things to do. 16:48 VanessaE ok 16:48 Shara I did too much travelling over the past couple of months and the heap grew into a mountain while my back was turned. :( 16:48 VanessaE don't forget, homedecor is in the minetest-mods group, so maybe I can pawn some of your issues off on sofar ;) 16:49 Shara Hehehe 16:52 Megaf benrob0329: heh, pelase do, I'm fine with the models tho 16:53 Megaf My only issue so far is some trains have no sounds and it's very tricky to make curves 16:56 Megaf benrob0329: Actually, I have no idea how to do curves 16:56 Megaf !server Megaf 16:56 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/10, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 10ms 16:56 Megaf feel free to join and help me figure out 16:57 benrob0329 Megaf: use the track tool to change the track type 16:57 Megaf oh 16:57 benrob0329 And lay then so they connect, its diagonally 16:57 Megaf lemme try 17:01 Megaf benrob0329: heh, thanks, it worked just fine 17:08 Shara Sadly, I suspect adding advance trains to my creative would just lead to more crazy spammy railtracks absolutely everywhere 17:09 rubenwardy advanced trains is rather unstable 17:13 benrob0329 Shara: unfortunately yes 17:13 benrob0329 Although you could make them reserved to railroad operators 17:13 Shara There is something about railtracks that causes otherwise okay builders to go mad and make huge eyesores 17:14 benrob0329 Remove them from the creative inventory type thing 17:14 benrob0329 o_O 17:15 Shara What railtracks in MT should look like: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/rafstrain.png 17:15 rubenwardy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUZZkUrMrNY 17:15 paramat Megaf so you added that stripped-down creative mod? 17:17 Krock rubenwardy, advtrains is on the way for that.. just the textures may need a bit more tweaking 17:17 rubenwardy the textures are disgusting 17:17 paramat Megaf also please open an issue about your screwdriver problem. no issue > no fix > can't complain :) 17:18 Shara Doe sthat issues with screwdrivers exist anymore? 17:19 paramat yeah confirmation would be good 17:21 Megaf paramat: I think it was fixed already 17:28 paramat ok good 17:54 IhrFussel Customer support didn't help much "that seems to be normal regarding VPS, maybe you should've considered a dedi instead" 17:54 IhrFussel Well let's see what they reply to my email with the lag times 18:46 Megaf bye all 18:59 rubenwardy omg 18:59 rubenwardy if we have a conference we could call it Minetest.Conf 18:59 rubenwardy minetest.conf 18:59 Shara rubenwardy: and now it has to happen 18:59 rubenwardy either that or MeseCon, but the latter's way too ambiguous 18:59 ThomasMonroe hehe 19:00 ThomasMonroe XD 19:00 ThomasMonroe I like MeseCon better though :P 19:00 rubenwardy yeah, it's better :D 19:00 paramat MineFest 19:01 paramat ConTest 19:01 ThomasMonroe lol 19:01 ThomasMonroe are there prizes at the ConTest? 19:01 rubenwardy ew, just nuke the test 19:02 rubenwardy rebrand as "Mine" 19:02 ThomasMonroe isn't that selfish? ;D 19:02 rubenwardy even better, MineGine™ 19:02 rubenwardy oops 19:02 rubenwardy even better, Minengine™ 19:03 Sokomine Shara: if all you don't want from homedecor are some nodes...perhaps overriding minetest.register_node might be of intrest? (if possible). i'm considering ways of offering travelnet in such a way that people can decide what part they want and what not. thus the discussion about settingtypes.txt 19:03 Shara Sokomine: then my server is still stuck with the baggage of all those extra textures and modles, which I believe are still sent to players? 19:04 Shara models* 19:04 Shara Not to mention dependencies on other mods I don't want 19:04 rubenwardy MineEngine Pro 19:05 rubenwardy MineEngine F2P with IAPs 19:05 rubenwardy IAP API for Minetest, when? 19:05 rubenwardy gotta get loot boxes in CTF 19:06 Shara Sokomine: Also homedecor has the fun issue of single textures larger than 200KB. 19:07 Sokomine rubenwardy: as long as we don't have to mine at the meeting...("bring your own pick", "dig for coal", ...) 19:07 rubenwardy we don't have enough players for this, unfortunately :( 19:07 Sokomine Shara: hm, that's right. the models and textures would still be there 19:07 Sokomine VanessaE loves doing textures and believes in hd :-) 19:08 ThomasMonroe ruben, I guess we have an empty mine :P 19:08 Shara One of the things I did with homedecor is massively reduce texture size.... never yet had a player complain 19:09 Shara 216KB texture in homedecor... my version is 53KB, just to give one of the most extreme cases 19:10 Sokomine hm, yes, homedecor is sometimes a bit heavy. it offers lots of very nice decorative nodes, and i've met a lot of players who did spend more effort on indoor decoration than on the outside. yet...a smaller version for more survival-orientated servers could sometimes help. maybe what 3dformiture had + some homedecor nodes + doors + windows (those really help make buildings look better) 19:10 Shara And that starts adding up big time soon enough, even if most of the texture changes have had smaller savings 19:10 Shara On DarkLands I used xdecor and then added selected homedecor items only 19:12 Sokomine xdecor is also nice and has consistent textures. but it's not really a repalcement for homedecor. it feels...more mc-like. mt has chairs and tables and toilets and fridges and kitchen sinks and kichten cabinets (very universal usage possible) 19:12 Shara Yes, I don't even really like xdecor to be honest, but that wasn't meant to be a heavy server in any sense 19:12 rubenwardy "a bit heavy" 19:12 rubenwardy very bloated you mean 19:12 rubenwardy :D 19:13 Shara When you can reduce a mod by over 1MB in size and players don't even notice the change... 19:13 * Shara shrugs 19:13 Sokomine maybe they notice but see no reason to complain 19:14 Shara Sokomine: At the time I asked them to tell me which nodes I had reduced textures on... they couldn't 19:14 Sokomine oh :-) 19:14 Sokomine well, anyway: thanks for reducing textures. my gpu is always glad if it has less work to do 19:15 Shara I think one player noticed I reduced the water texture (I used a fairly large custom one), but I expected that since I could see the difference on that myself quite easily 19:15 Shara But the only homedecor ones where I think you can actually see the change if you look closely are the plasma ones, since I simply couldn't justify such large textures sizes for them 19:42 Shara ThomasMonroe: Just to confirm, have you played on RedCat any time recently? Pretty sure it was someone using your name and not you that I just banned. :) 19:45 ThomasMonroe yes it was not me XD 19:45 Shara Awesome. If you ever need the name freed up there, just let me know. 20:27 * Jordach has more choccie digestives 20:30 Shara Jordach: Share? 20:32 IhrFussel Is a 30 sec lag every hour acceptable on a VPS? I'm just trying to hear some more opinions in case they reply "sorry we cannot help you there" 20:34 Jordach yes 20:34 Shara Fussel, the best people to ask that of would be your players 20:34 Shara They are the ones who need to live with it 20:36 IhrFussel What kind of service are you supposed to run on a VPS if it's "normal" to have the machine freeze for 30 sec hourly?? I cannot imagine that this is normal 20:36 Shara Doesn't happen to me 20:36 IhrFussel I don't even have the cheapest VPS I have the middle one 20:37 IhrFussel https://www.strato.de/server/linux-vserver/ I got the one that's blue by default 20:38 IhrFussel I can't believe that they are offering such a terrible performance as "mid-tier VPS" 20:42 Shara Maybe I am missing it, but it doesn't seem to say much about CPU? 20:42 IhrFussel Look at those numbers https://pastebin.com/3iwxZePQ 20:43 Shara All over the place 20:43 IhrFussel It says 6 vCores ... and the CPU in use is extremely powerful ... the problem is that I have to share the CPU with others 20:43 Shara Can MT even utilise that many cores? 20:44 IhrFussel No, but I thought if I choose a more expensive VPS MAYBE I would get a certain min performance 20:44 Shara When lag peaks, is CPU maxing out on the cores in use? 20:45 IhrFussel Nope, average load goes up to 0,5 or maybe 1,0 but that's it ... minetestserver stays at ~5% CPU 20:46 Shara When I've had lag problems on my servers before, I could clearly see CPU maxing out 20:48 IhrFussel http://i.imgur.com/pIsHNvm.png ... that's what it looks like during the spike more or less 20:50 Shara I wish I could help you more, but you need someone with more of a clue about this than I have 20:50 Megaf Minetest.Conf it is 20:51 Megaf will happen in Feb or March next year in Europe 20:51 rubenwardy what is mtwol? 20:51 Megaf Likely in Wales or Scotland 20:51 rubenwardy *mtwol.sh 20:51 rubenwardy Bristol! 20:51 rubenwardy :D 20:52 Shara rubenwardy: Don't be greedy :P 20:52 Megaf we have already 3 attendences comfirmed 20:52 Shara Bristol already has one :) 20:52 rubenwardy lol :D 20:52 * Megaf has just returned from sunny day in the swiming pool 20:53 IhrFussel rubenwardy, those are just some scripts that restart the server, do backups etc 20:53 rubenwardy cool 20:53 rubenwardy was wondering why it was root 20:54 IhrFussel Yeah well since I modified a few builtin files too I need to backup those too =P 20:54 rubenwardy with systemd, you can allow users to control services. ie: allow the Minetest to restart Minetest 20:54 rubenwardy lol 20:55 * Megaf has to learn how to do that ^ 20:55 rubenwardy you don't need run as root to backup files in /usr 20:55 rubenwardy everything in /usr is world readable 20:56 * Megaf throws Darwin at rubenwardy 20:56 rubenwardy what 20:56 Megaf the OS.. 20:56 Megaf nevermind 20:56 rubenwardy the VPS is probably Linux 20:56 rubenwardy not Darwin 20:57 rubenwardy trying to upload my systemd service, but gist.github.com won't load 20:57 rubenwardy at my parents who have 60Kbps currently 20:57 rubenwardy usually 500Kbps - 2Mbps 20:58 rubenwardy ha, 23Kbps right now 20:58 Megaf sometimes is faster to just send data by post 20:59 Megaf or by pigeon 20:59 Megaf attach a 1 TB SD card to a pigeon and be happy 20:59 rubenwardy I have 200Mbps at home, so this is very painful 20:59 Megaf Pigeon Backup Services 20:59 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/59ea4e422f70b4b7a220c759d29fc8b2 21:21 * Sokomine lures the pidgeon with megafs sd card away with some seeds 21:21 Jordach IhrFussel: what's your maximum price/month 21:27 IhrFussel Jordach, I already pay $25/month for my current dedi ... if I didn't have that other dedi I could take a more expensive dedi right now but my hoster also takes an "activation fee" of $50 21:27 Calinou rubenwardy: I could download at 10 MB/s on Steam with a 4G connection at my grandparents on Christmas 21:27 Calinou I get 1.3 MB/s at best at home 21:28 Calinou oh, also, fiber has been announced in my city 21:28 Calinou it should hopefully be there in less than 2 years… riiiight? 22:12 Jordach IhrFussel you're US based or EU based 22:12 IhrFussel EU 22:13 Krock > when Asia doesn't exist 22:13 Jordach scaleway has amsterdam and paris based dedis 22:13 Jordach !ping jordach.net 22:13 Jordach MinetestBot: pls 22:13 Krock <3 MinetestBot 22:13 MinetestBot <3 Krock 22:13 Krock Jordach, she doesn't like you 22:14 Jordach !up jordach.net 22:14 MinetestBot jordach.net:30000 is up (13ms) 22:14 Jordach :^) 22:14 Jordach in Paris loaded with 3 SSDs 22:17 benrob0329 can you get the textures definition from an entity? 22:21 benrob0329 entities have supprisingly little documentation, especially in lua_api.txt 22:21 benrob0329 :-/ 22:24 Krock benrob0329, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4373 22:24 Krock self.object:get_properties().textures 22:24 Krock example from builtin: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item_entity.lua#L60 22:27 benrob0329 Krock: thanks 22:27 Krock !next 22:27 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 22:46 benrob0329 how can I call custom functions in entitydef? 22:47 Krock self:my_custom_function(arg1, arg2, ..) 22:48 Krock it's just a table where you can call functions :) 22:51 Megaf Shara: I just saved a young little birdie 22:51 Shara Hmm? 22:52 Megaf Found him on the floor of my garage. Got him carefuly in my hand and searched for his nest, found his nest and his bros and sis and put it back there 22:52 Megaf all 3 healthy and safe now 22:52 Megaf :) 22:52 Megaf tiny bird, I think it was like a baby 22:52 Megaf How do you call a baby bird? 22:54 Shara Chick? 22:56 sofar a snack? 22:56 Shara :P 22:56 sofar failed dinosaur! 23:00 IhrFussel Most dedis I find are $50+ or have the same weak CPU as my current one (AMD Opteron) 23:01 Megaf AMD Opteron is not weak at all 23:01 sofar a 2009 amd opteron is weak 23:01 Megaf is just Minetest is not designed to use an AMD Opteron, nor AMD Opteron is designed as a game server CPU 23:01 Megaf Just fact, not a critic to Minetest this time ^ 23:01 sofar disclaimer: my personal opinion does not represent my employers' views :) 23:02 Megaf IhrFussel: Opteron is good for crunching numbers in parallel and running several web and database servers 23:02 Megaf not for games 23:03 Megaf Maybe, in my opinion, a very high clocked two thread modern Atom will beat a lot of more complex CPUs at same clock running Minetest 23:03 IhrFussel And another huge lag...40 secons and average load went up to 3,5 23:04 Megaf Raven262: did you check the max lag on my server? 23:04 Megaf I dont think I'm getting as high as 40 seconds, but I am gettings like 20 seconds when theres many people moving around loading areas 23:06 Shara I sometimes wonder how I manage to run servers on VPS at all, given the problems you both get 23:07 Megaf no no, I dont get many problems on my VPS, almost none. I'm getting some lag now due to old Atom CPU and HDD. Is expected 23:07 Megaf in my Linode VPS the only problem was lack of RAM 23:07 Shara I'd just consider such lags unacceptable, that's all. 23:08 Megaf Oh, I do too 23:08 Megaf Shara: what CPU you have by the way? 23:08 Megaf in the VPS that is 23:08 Shara Can't remember right now. 23:09 Shara I use the third tier here: https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml 23:15 Megaf That's it, I will drop my Linode VPS and switch to OVH VPS 23:15 Megaf will have on OVH Dedi (where my MT server is and one OVH VPS) 23:15 Calinou OVH VPS is not exactly cheap 23:15 Calinou compared to the competition 23:16 Calinou OVH dedicated is even worse :P 23:16 Calinou (try So You Start or Kimsufi instead) 23:16 Calinou (both are owned by OVH, they're just more accessible brands) 23:16 Calinou disclaimer: my personal opinion does not represent my employers' views :) 23:16 Megaf Calinou: Kimsufi is OVH ;) 23:16 Calinou I love this sentence, it means nothing :P 23:16 Megaf Calinou: and my dedi is Kimsufi 23:17 Megaf I'm running a /emergeblocks here 1000 from my spawn. What will happen? 23:17 Megaf Will it generate only ungenarated areas or will it overwrite everything? 23:18 Megaf (Of course I have a full backup of worlds directory made just prior running this command) 23:18 Calinou what does "/help emergeblocks" say? 23:18 Sokomine Megaf: hm, does placing a bird back into his nest work? i'm not sure if that's always a good idea 23:18 Shara Calinou: It works, whereas DL has needed to change hosting multiple times since we tried to do it more cheaply. 23:18 Megaf Calinou: /emergeblocks (here [radius]) | ( ): Load (or, if nonexistent, generate) map blocks contained in area pos1 to pos2 23:19 Calinou Shara: DL? 23:19 Shara DarkLands. The other server I run. 23:19 Calinou Megaf: that means it keeps already generated areas as-is :) 23:19 Calinou Shara: we have many nonprofit hosts in France, the prices can be good, but they only speak French 23:19 Shara Currently that one is hosted on Scaleway, and hosting problems have been minimal since going there 23:19 Calinou really good, even 23:19 Calinou (it's where my VPS is) 23:19 Megaf Sokomine: well, I just aproached him from the place where his nest is and he actually jumped from my hand and ran to be just with his brothers 23:20 Megaf dady and momy bird were not around 23:20 Megaf Calinou: thanks, that's what I thought 23:20 Sokomine Megaf: hope it works then 23:20 Megaf So do I 23:21 Megaf Sokomine: If I wasnt traveling tomorrow I'd actually keep birdie and feed him by hand 23:21 IhrFussel 74 secs lag ... 23:21 Sokomine might be quite demanding if it's a very young one 23:21 paramat emergeblocks only generates ungenerated world 23:21 IhrFussel It gets worse and worse 23:21 Sokomine IhrFussel: what are you doing? increasing lag? 23:22 Sokomine perhaps...lag once in a while is less bad than constant high lag 23:22 IhrFussel I'm doing nothing...my hoster is apparently too full 23:22 Megaf IhrFussel: shutdown server, run CPU benchmark 23:22 Megaf wait one hour 23:22 Megaf shutdown server again 23:22 Megaf run CPU benchmark again 23:22 paramat but radius 100 nodes is rather large 23:22 Megaf repeat 4 times 23:22 paramat 1000 23:22 shivajiva oversubscribed, cheeky buggers :/ 23:22 Megaf IhrFussel: compare CPU times benchmark 23:23 IhrFussel Megaf, customer support already implied that "this is normal" 23:23 Megaf paramat: yep, I want 100% of spawn area generated 23:23 Megaf I was walking around today and found areas close to spawn that were never visited 23:24 shivajiva ofc the provider will guarantee it for a fee lol 23:24 paramat i find 4000x4000x80nodes takes 15mins 23:24 Megaf IhrFussel: I have dedicated now, yet I still get these lag spikes. So I would just blame your provider yet 23:24 Megaf paramat: emergeblocks update: 11928/2000376 blocks emerged (0.6%) 23:24 Megaf emergeblocks update: 11995/2000376 blocks emerged (0.6%) 23:24 Megaf it will take a while 23:25 shivajiva sofar: https://github.com/shivajiva101/sban/tree/shivajiva101-patch-gui 23:25 Megaf at least there's 16 Emerge threads running :D 23:25 Megaf and all 4 hardware threads are maxed out 23:26 paramat ah 1000^3 is similar volume, should be ok 23:26 sofar shivajiva: oh, will review security asap 23:26 shivajiva ty 23:27 paramat oops 23:27 paramat radius 100 is 2000^3 23:27 paramat *1000 23:28 IhrFussel Megaf, trust me when I say 95% of the time the max_lag is 0.15 ... and then SUDDENLY the server freezes for 30+ seconds 23:28 Megaf Right 23:28 IhrFussel And it can happen multiple times in a row 23:28 paramat so will take a long time, maybe an hour or more 23:28 IhrFussel It's a pure luck game 23:29 Megaf hm, during emergeblocks maxlag is 11 seconds, server still responsive 23:29 Megaf amazing 23:29 Megaf I was expecting it to totally freeze 23:30 sofar shivajiva: well, you explicitly check privs in the formspec receive method, so after that it's all admins, so it's already good enough 23:30 Megaf now, how come a normal gameplay mapgen/loading unloaded areas hangs everything and a heavy emerge blocks doesnt!? 23:32 shivajiva sofar: nice to know I understood your methodology for securing the formspec :) 23:33 sofar you are putting a lot of data into fields though, which I don't really like 23:33 sofar better keep it tucked behind a priv :) 23:33 sofar I'm glad the article was useful :) 23:38 IhrFussel I want to kill my hoster 2017-12-29 00:02:51: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.417 ... MAX LAG: 106.801 23:38 IhrFussel 106!!! 23:38 shivajiva how would you prefer the data to be displayed code wise ? 23:39 Megaf IhrFussel: who do you get that message anyway? 23:39 Megaf and just go back to your dedicated... 23:40 Megaf # Server: version=0.4.17-Megaf, uptime=2045.22, max_lag=14.2526, clients={Megaf} 23:40 Megaf Running emergeblocks ^ 23:40 sofar # Server: version=0.4.16, uptime=8410, max_lag=0.116296, clients={GreenDimond} 23:40 sofar somehow I'm really liking my hoster 23:41 IhrFussel Megaf, I wrote an email with a few lag times to the support and wait for a reply... Maybe they will offer to "move" me somewhere else with less load not sure 23:42 IhrFussel The lag times are reported by my avg_lag mod 23:43 IhrFussel I linked it here some time ago 23:43 shivajiva IhrFussel: my provider just charges me more for exceeding my quota and I stay on that tier for the rest of the billing period. Yours doesn't which may be a blessing 23:45 benrob0329 Krock: what if I only wanted to set one texture from the textures table, how would I do that? 23:45 benrob0329 set_properties({textures[1] = foo}) is rejected by my linter, so I'm not inclined to think it works 23:45 Calinou sofar: what's your hoster by the way? 23:45 IhrFussel shivajiva, I'm not exceeding any quota though, this VPS is very new (have it since yesterday) and there are too many crazy scripts running on the shared CPU... either that or the shared I/O got a problem 23:46 IhrFussel Nobody can tell me that 100 seconds lag are "normal" not even for a VPS 23:46 Jordach >using a linter 23:46 Jordach benrob0329: git gud 23:46 * Jordach doesn't use a linter at all 23:46 Jordach 8) 23:47 benrob0329 Jordach: thats why i use a linter :^) 23:47 benrob0329 because tracing errors sucks 23:47 Jordach >Do you have a disability? 23:47 Jordach >Yes 23:47 Jordach >If yes, please give details 23:47 Jordach >uSiNg A lInTeR 23:49 Jordach i'm being sarcastic, because i'm moderately depressed right now 23:49 sofar Calinou: ramnode, and AWS 23:50 Megaf !server =IML= 23:50 MinetestBot Megaf: "=IML= Clan Server - Minetest 0.4.17 Vanilla" | 179.179.75.90:30417 | Clients: 0/100, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-dev / minetest | Ping: 258ms 23:50 Megaf fastest MT server ^ 23:51 Jordach kek 23:51 Jordach dat ping 23:54 Sokomine IhrFussel: maybe you ought to be more friendly towards your hoster :-) 23:54 Megaf Jordach: far away from bot... 23:54 Megaf closer to you 23:54 Megaf pint it yourself 23:54 Megaf also, dat IP 23:56 * Sokomine hands Jordach a chocolate cookie in order to cheer him up 23:57 IhrFussel 2017-12-28 20:01:43: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 35.250 +++ 2017-12-28 21:00:48: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 7.350 +++ 2017-12-28 22:02:48: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 36.750 +++ 2017-12-28 23:01:05: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 32.250 << do you guys notice how it's always around the same minute of the hour? 23:58 IhrFussel I bet it will happen again in 3 minutes (01:02)