Time Nick Message 01:18 FourFire How do I detect whether a block is on fire, (for an ABM)? 01:18 FourFire When my mod is done it's gonna be a killer on the CPU 01:19 FourFire I'll have to figure out how to actually program like a real coder and optimize all my functions 01:25 FourFire For now, I made it activate using flowing lava. 01:53 paramat set 'neighbour' to fire:basic_flame ? 01:53 paramat *neighbors 01:54 FourFire thanks paramat 01:57 benrob0329 paramat: any way of using the mapgen to generate corridors without the use of schematics? 01:57 FourFire I'm having trouble with this ABM: https://hastebin.com/ufapohihic.lua 01:58 FourFire Lines 15/16 seem to be crashing for some reason 01:59 benrob0329 I suppose on_generate with vmanip and some math would work 02:03 paramat FourFire that's unreadable code, work on indents and line length. are you missing the final '})' to close the ABM registration? 02:04 FourFire nope if I comment out those two lines it runs 02:04 FourFire I'll work on indents 02:05 benrob0329 FourFire: you need to let your code breath man 02:05 benrob0329 Put some spacing lines in every now and again :-) 02:05 FourFire I could put it all on one line and it would run 02:05 paramat benrob yes use LVM in on generate with some maths, just like a lua mapgen works 02:05 FourFire the formatting is only for the sake of the programmer, correct? 02:06 paramat no heh 02:06 benrob0329 FourFire: and everyone who comes after him 02:06 FourFire the programmer, yes. 02:06 paramat for reviewers and anyone who wants to read and understand it 02:06 FourFire Okay, how about you fix the formatting for that block so I can see how it should be done? 02:06 paramat erm .. 02:07 FourFire and I'll fix my mod to that standard 02:07 paramat you have to learn yourself how to format lua, read MTG files 02:08 paramat we're not here to do your work for you 02:08 FourFire That's fine and I can read my code fine, for not having touched programming until this week. 02:08 FourFire I'll comment it more. 02:11 paramat remeber to use the 'mapgen object voxelmanip', good example https://github.com/paramat/roadvalleys/blob/master/init.lua#L172 02:11 paramat *remember 02:12 paramat FourFire no surprise you can read your own code, but no one else can 02:12 benrob0329 FourFire: good luck in a month 02:19 FourFire paramat, benrob0329 is this any better: https://hastebin.com/eroxumurot.lua 02:19 FourFire Oh yeah ignore the last line comment, that's a feature I have yet to figure out first. 02:22 paramat 'then' is wrongly placed. lines should be no longer than 80-90 columns (with tab size 4). i still can't read some lines in my browser window due to length 02:23 paramat best to also paste the closing brackets of the ABM 02:25 FourFire any idea why line 16 fails to produce a table? 02:26 paramat well line 16 is a search that only searches one node at 'pos' 02:27 paramat area wrongly defined 02:27 FourFire that's true 02:27 FourFire it's supposed to be the node that the AMB originates from 02:27 FourFire it's supposed to self destruct/turn into default:stone 02:33 FourFire hah figured it out, it was the wrong node 02:38 paramat no need to search for it then, just 'set node' at pos 04:41 FourFire well my mod is now published, if rather informally I wonder if anyone will do anything with it: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/385648764054011915/FourFire_nano_mod_1.0.0.7z 05:45 benrob0329 FourFire: https://hastebin.com/kolitoyohu.lua 05:45 benrob0329 something closer to that 05:45 benrob0329 ofc I use tabs normally but hastebin doesn't do tabs apparently 05:47 benrob0329 Also discord...just..eww 08:57 Megaf Greetings folks 08:57 Megaf I'm very happy so far with Firefox 57, Apache 2 and PHP 7 09:00 Megaf Youtube is not working fantastically well on Firefox though 09:12 tenplus1 hi folks 09:15 shivajiva Hi tenplus, Megaf 09:15 Megaf Hi tenplus1 09:15 tenplus1 hi Megaf 09:16 Megaf Hi shivajiva 09:17 * shivajiva sips hot milk with cinnamon and honey, it's a tad chilly out there today 09:17 tenplus1 hi shiva... yo got a cold dude ? 09:17 tenplus1 hi nrz 09:18 nerzhul hi 09:18 Amaz Hello everyone :) 09:19 tenplus1 hey amaz 09:26 Megaf 3C here this morning 09:26 tenplus1 nice n toasty :)) 0c here 09:26 Amaz -2C here :) 09:27 * tenplus1 makes ice at Amaz's house 09:27 Megaf 2C yesterday when I went home from college at 8:50 PM 09:27 Megaf Amaz, no need to spend money in electricity to chill your food! 09:27 Amaz Heh :P 09:27 Amaz Although it does need to be heated to keep it from freezing ;) 09:28 Megaf tenplus1, I think we should visit Amaz and make some ice cream outside 09:28 tenplus1 ooh, sounds like a plan 09:29 Amaz Too cold for icecream :P 09:29 Megaf Amaz, expect us this weekend 09:29 tenplus1 it's never too cold for ice cream :D 09:29 Megaf agreed ^ 09:29 Amaz xD 09:37 tenplus1 does new new 0.5 player model support minecraft 1.7 AND 1.8 skins ? 09:39 Megaf I need ice cream now 09:40 tenplus1 hi neinwhal 09:40 tenplus1 hi ShadowNinja 09:41 neinwhal hey tenplus1 09:41 Megaf Is Shadow still alive? 09:42 tenplus1 hope so :P 09:44 shivajiva heh no cold, I just like the taste 09:44 tenplus1 mmm, honey & lemon with ginger sounds nice about now 09:45 shivajiva ofc it's tainted by the fact the honey is contaminated with pesticide 09:46 tenplus1 nuuuuuuuuu 09:46 shivajiva all honey on the planet contains nicotinoids now 09:46 tenplus1 *shakes fist at pesticides* 09:50 shivajiva tenplus are you following pr #6718 09:51 tenplus1 disable all for csm 09:52 shivajiva yup 09:52 tenplus1 +1'd it... we do need a kill switch for csm loading on client... 09:53 shivajiva this is a mess, why isn't the dev who instigated it providing the support to add the feature 09:54 Megaf CSM should have never made into the code in the first place 09:54 Megaf At least not with a way of getting disabled. 09:54 Amaz CSM shouldn't ever have allowed client provided mods, just server sent mods... 09:55 tenplus1 csm could have been good if implemented from server only 09:55 tenplus1 Connect to server -> here's a mod to run client-side -> okie dokie 09:55 Megaf tenplus1, that's how I thought it would work when we first talked about that long time ago 09:55 Amaz Yup 09:55 tenplus1 yeah, but clients are using it to cheat and that makes me sad 09:55 Megaf I was actually thinking it was a good idea back in the day 09:55 sfan5 pretty that is also how the plan looked like before work on CSM even started 09:55 Megaf all heavy stuff could be done client side freeing up server 09:56 Megaf but man, clients deciding the mods? No, just no. 09:57 Megaf So my point is, we remove CSM for now from the code, entirely. And we work on a better implementation. In a different branch 09:57 tenplus1 +100 09:57 tenplus1 have 0.5.0 stable and useable and maybe after than 0.5.1 can re-implement a proper working csm 10:01 tenplus1 am still putting faith in 0.5.0 being a huge stepping stone for mt 10:02 Megaf I copied your text and pasted there https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6699#issuecomment-348140053 10:02 Megaf Will remove if you not happy with it 10:03 Megaf Just thought it could be interesting. 10:03 tenplus1 das ok :) 10:04 Megaf Github hiding the nicks because < > 10:04 tenplus1 ehehe, it knows!!!!! 10:04 Megaf Fixed 10:04 shivajiva given it has been included, why isn't the modifications being handled by it's creator, surely he's in the best position to instigate the changes required to disable it 10:04 tenplus1 hi Vanessa 10:04 Megaf shivajiva, any idea who was the creator> 10:04 Megaf ? 10:05 sfan5 shivajiva: probably since nrz has limited time to spend on MT currently 10:05 Megaf Ahah, That's why he defends CSM so much 10:05 Megaf it was his idea 10:06 tenplus1 nrz, good idea, badly implemented... sorry dude 10:06 shivajiva so if he had a 10 min conversation with another dev about how to do it...instead he's stood off watching the proceedings 10:06 sfan5 >volunteer run project 10:07 sfan5 "why isn't he doing this and that?????" 10:08 shivajiva just trying to understand why he's stepped away from the task 10:09 Megaf We had a better CSM implantation but it was stepped over. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4577#issue-181205385 10:10 Megaf I *think* server had control over that one 10:11 shivajiva 0.4.16 was a bad move in terms of the holes created and it looks like a hit and run from over here atm 10:19 tenplus1 wb bwarden 10:37 tenplus1 wb 10:38 Megaf Thanks 10:38 Megaf interesting https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6718#issuecomment-348145457 10:40 nore Just a quick question, but it is a problem if CSM is running but all its API calls are disabled? 10:40 tenplus1 o/ nore 10:40 nore Hi :) 10:40 nore (or rather, most of them, except ie those that can't affect the server but are essential such as those used for death formspec) 10:41 tenplus1 death formspec ? 10:41 Megaf Hi nore, long time no see 10:41 nore Hi Megaf! Yeah, not very active lately 10:42 nore Lots of stuff to do :) 10:43 nore tenplus1: yes, I seem to remember nerzhul saying something about it 10:43 tenplus1 is it anything to do with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1342 10:43 nerzhul honestly, CSM implementation is good, the flavour are good, some user usage is bad. The only error we did is we don't have flavour support in 0.4.16 which can heal the hemoragy 10:44 Megaf Nothing that takes control from you is good 10:44 nerzhul nore, disable all calls can have a problem, if i remember death formspec has been migrated to the CSM builtin lua stack permitting CSM mods to override it like we did with SSM inventory formspec 10:45 sfan5 nerzhul: but isn't paramats PR actually fine? since builtin is still loaded to death formspecs still works, it essentially just prevents client mods from being loaded 10:46 nerzhul sfan5, maybe it can be good, but i don't guarantee side effet if you use flavours for this, as it's not the CSM enable bool flag 10:46 sfan5 i see 10:46 nerzhul i think if you want to use a such thing you should use a function to check both bool flag & flavour byteflag and use it everytime you check the bool flag 10:47 nerzhul this thing will try to disable mods loading, but if you add code to builtin CSM on various places you can make it work like a rogue mod (like the hated oredetect) 10:51 tenplus1 which is why I'd rather have CSM removed completely for 0.5.0 and have it re-implemented properly 10:52 tenplus1 it's bad enough that bogus clients can use minetest servers, but giving them the slightest chance to run unsecure csm mods is a no no 10:53 nore ^ well, a possible solution is to check the hash of the builtin file 10:53 nerzhul tenplus1, the CSM implementation is good, the problem is what users can do with API 10:53 nore That way, users can't change the file without recompiling 10:53 nerzhul nore, it's not a single file, but it can be done yes 10:53 tenplus1 that's the issue, what they can DO with it... meaning it's not secure 10:53 Megaf[College] nerzhul, you wont admit is not good will ya? 10:53 Megaf[College] Get over it 10:53 * Megaf[College] runs 10:53 nerzhul i admit you are a kid 10:54 nerzhul and i admit i don't like to talk with you as you just see things in white or black, never in gray 10:54 tenplus1 who ? me or megaf ? 10:54 nerzhul CSM implementation is nice, CSM API is nice, but some possibilities are used by users to cheat on servers, and flavour fix them, just enable flavour or look at missing flavour instead of complaining 10:55 nerzhul tenplus1, -> Megaf[College] 10:55 nerzhul the only thing you need is flavours 10:55 nerzhul they fix your points 10:55 nerzhul but 0.4.16 doesn't have it 10:55 tenplus1 can we please have a properly implemented flavour to disable csm entirely ? 10:55 nerzhul entierely is not possible but mod loading is possible 10:56 sfan5 tenplus1: that's exactly what the PR is aiming at and I don't think that would be rejected 10:56 tenplus1 can it be hacked to re-laod mods ? 10:56 nore The thing is anyway, we can never ever prevent the client from executing things like oredetect, which are simple to do in C++; of course, CSM currently lowers the entry barrier, but you will never be able to limit more than CSM flavours 10:56 nerzhul tenplus1, if you recompile your own client you can, but it's like very cheating when you have access on binary source code. 10:57 nerzhul like the hacked client we saw before any wild CSM appears :p 10:57 Megaf[College] tenplus1, boycott time is it? 10:57 tenplus1 and like I said before, it takes 1 person with the know-how to change the code, compile a hacked version and release to the masses 10:57 Megaf[College] some people just can't change their minds and see things from a different perspective 10:57 sfan5 tenplus1: it was always like that, CSM does not change that 10:57 nore tenplus1: yes, and that is true regardless of csm 10:57 Megaf[College] nerzhul, how many servers do you have? And for how long have you been running them? 10:58 nerzhul tenplus1, yeah, but this person can release a hacked client, like it's already the case, but anyway, just add the flavour proposed by t0ny2 it's reasonable 10:58 tenplus1 it was bad enough players coming onto Xanadu and stealing from LOCKED chests 10:58 nerzhul FLAVOUR_DISABLE_MOD_LOADING 10:58 sfan5 oh yes the locked chest issue again 10:58 nerzhul it's nice, no code hack 10:58 nerzhul sfan5, lol :p 10:58 sfan5 tenplus1: that was a bug and is not the fault of csm 10:58 nore tenplus1: that's a mod bug 10:58 sfan5 also you still haven't shown how to reproduce it 10:59 nerzhul if you can steal thing which is stored server side, it's ALWAYS server side issue 10:59 tenplus1 0.4.16 july 19th build running csm, go onto server, punch locked chest, take item 10:59 sfan5 yeah and the csm mod used to do that? 11:00 tenplus1 opening a client formspec for a specific node using "main" inventory doesnt necesseraly check server on_take on_move etc... it's a new formspec 11:00 nore tenplus1: it does check it 11:00 sfan5 no no 11:00 sfan5 can you please just post the full exact code so someone can reproduce and fix this? 11:01 tenplus1 am not posting chest_inspector anywhere, I dont want ppl getting hold if this nonsense 11:01 nore tenplus1: just privmsg it to core devs 11:01 sfan5 ^ 11:01 tenplus1 might do later, gonna play with 0.5.x for now 11:02 nore tenplus1: do you want it fixed or not? 11:02 nerzhul tenplus1, in fact on_take and on_move server callbacks should see if the user is allowed to do that 11:02 nerzhul if you do that only on server formspec opening it's ridiculous :) 11:02 sfan5 i don't get this 11:02 sfan5 multiple server owners keep complaining about CSM citing the locked chests bug 11:02 nerzhul it's like if in a web page you have a login page, and you allow user to see http://example.org/admin.php without being logged if he changes the URL 11:03 sfan5 while NONE of them want to work with coredevs to fix it 11:03 tenplus1 hold on, will give u pastebin of csm mod 11:03 tenplus1 2 mins, gotta get from other desky 11:05 tenplus1 who wants link: sfan5, nore, celeron ? 11:05 sfan5 PM it to me, please 11:05 tenplus1 done... back laters... 11:11 sfan5 unsurprisingly it does not work 11:11 sfan5 0.4.16 both mt + mtg does not allow you to take from locked chests 11:12 nerzhul sfan5, maybe it's not standard mtg locked chests ? 11:12 sfan5 the mod has support for a few other nodes too but the comments list the commits in which it has been fixed 11:13 sfan5 (it's the "chest_inspector" mod you have probably already seen) 11:52 Shara sfan5: if I could reproduce it, I would GLADLY work with you to fix it in anyway I could. 11:52 sfan5 and i would gladly fix it 11:52 Shara I've seen Ten take things from chests I placed, but I can't in turn reproduce it, even when using the exact code he sent me 11:53 Shara Which leaves the only option of it being version or even weirdly OS related somehow.. and I just don't know. 11:53 Shara I did ask him to look into it more because if there is a big, I want it fixed 11:53 Shara But please don't assume we're all unwilling to work with you on these things 11:54 shivajiva ^ 11:56 Shara I think CSM should never have been added in its current form, and completely support it being removed until such a time as it can be reimplemented properly, and I will argue down any dev or other person who tries to tell me I don't have the right to decide the gameplay on my own server, but my interest is in fixing things, not fighting. 11:59 sfan5 Shara: this happens with default:locked_chest right? 11:59 Shara From what I've been able to gather 12:00 Shara I wasn't here much this morning or would have tried to find more out from Ten 12:04 shivajiva looking at the history it was locked/protected/mailbox initially before the fixes were merged, I can't reproduce it either fwiw 12:38 IhrFussel Hello there 13:48 Megaf Hi Mr_Pardison Fixer RobbieF 13:48 RobbieF hey Magaf, how you been? 13:48 Mr_Pardison greetings. 13:49 Megaf RobbieF, Fighting with Linux 13:49 Megaf apt says disk full, dd and df says otherwise 13:49 Mr_Pardison I hope it's not Fedora. 13:49 Megaf Mr_Pardison, Debian and CentOS 13:55 Mr_Pardison Why is it called tourist season if we aren't allowed to hunt them? 13:56 Calinou fhi :) 13:56 Calinou -f 13:57 RobbieF Megaf type: df -h - which is 100%? 13:57 RobbieF guessing /var? 13:57 RobbieF or /boot? 13:58 Megaf nope, all free 13:59 RobbieF so where are you seeing "full"? 13:59 RobbieF gui? 13:59 RobbieF pastebin the output of df -h 14:01 Megaf RobbieF, I have the guys on #Debian at OFTC trying to help me with this too 14:02 Megaf RobbieF, you have to believe me, df reports more than enough space available 14:02 Megaf apt update on Debian is complaining of not having space 14:03 Megaf Err:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages 14:03 Megaf Error writing to output file - write (28: No space left on device) Error writing to file - write (28: No space left on device) [IP: 151.101.0.204 80] 14:03 Megaf E: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-amd64/Packages Error writing to output file - write (28: No space left on device) Error writing to file - write (28: No space left on device) [IP: 151.101.0.204 80] 14:04 RobbieF I'd still like to see df -h :) and have you run df -h wrapped in watch during the update to monitor it? 14:05 Megaf[College] will try that, hold on 14:05 RobbieF ie., watch df -h 14:05 RobbieF and what about your inodes? 14:06 RobbieF like, what does it show when you type df -i 14:07 RobbieF use watch df -i while running apt upgrade 14:07 Megaf[College] did that 14:08 Megaf[College] use one inode more wile running and I get the inode back when apt finishes failing 14:08 Megaf[College] by the way, df http://paste.debian.net/plain/998335 14:09 RobbieF intriguing 14:09 RobbieF so the inode use never spikes during the update? 14:11 Megaf[College] not at all 14:15 RobbieF is apt in a clean state? Could it be broken packages causing this? 14:22 Jordach Megaf[College], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGXERfhe-Oo 14:22 Jordach you think your RPI is slow? :^) 14:23 Megaf[College] Jordach, actually I dont :P 14:23 Megaf[College] 3dfx voodoo :D 14:25 Megaf[College] I'm amazing Windows 7 kernel works without MMX 14:25 Megaf[College] I'm amazing Windows 7 kernel works without MMX and SSE 14:26 Jordach what's what i've been implying about W10 14:26 Jordach windows can run on even lower end pieces of shit compared to Linux 14:29 Megaf[College] I wonder if Windows ships with different kernels and just selects the best by its init/boot loader, or if it just loads modules as needed to support new CPUs or what 14:29 Jordach have you seen the shit i did to my W10 install? 14:30 Jordach yes, it's probably modularized to the goddamn moon and back 14:30 Jordach (my W10 is in need of re-installing, but it keeps on going without dying) 14:31 Megaf[College] Windows 10 is running terribly bad in VBox here 14:31 Megaf[College] very slow 14:31 Megaf[College] I think in part because I can only give it 1 GB of RAM 14:32 Jordach Megaf[College], https://i.imgur.com/UvU5TiN.png 14:32 Jordach i don't need to pay for windows again 14:34 Jordach and no, the license cost me nothing 14:34 Jordach (it's not KMS either) 14:36 Jordach (it's not a W7 upgrade either) 14:40 Megaf[College] I have no idea if I have any key associated to my account, should have 14:40 Jordach Windows Update & Security -> Activation 14:40 Jordach under PC Settings 14:41 Megaf[College] I dont have windows man 14:41 Megaf[College] not with my account at least 14:41 * benrob0329 skims backlog 14:41 Megaf[College] I have 1 VM for Windows 10 Creators, Pro N, 1VM for 7 Enterprise and 1 VM for Server 2008 R2 Enterprise 14:53 ThomasMonroe how do I check the IP of a player? 14:56 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: player:get_ip() I believe 14:56 Megaf Gotta love my colleges wifi 14:57 ThomasMonroe I mean from in-game 14:57 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: write a mod for it I suppose 14:57 benrob0329 I don't think there is a chatcommand for it right now 14:58 Megaf ThomasMonroe, check the log 14:58 Megaf it shows there 14:58 ThomasMonroe ok so its player:get_ip("playername") 14:58 ThomasMonroe right? 14:59 CBugDCoder no tre it is just player:get_ip 14:59 ThomasMonroe nvmd 14:59 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: if your calling it from the player object I don't think you need to specify the name 14:59 ThomasMonroe nvmd I just did a whois XD 15:00 CBugDCoder which by the way tre is a mod 15:00 ThomasMonroe ik XD 15:04 * Jordach starts creating some automation for Solar Plains 15:05 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/bkcilhhrqkzdjwxhxn.png 15:06 Jordach the whole reason for that warning marker is for identifying the object to be automated 15:11 benrob0329 Jordach: its amazing what you can to with some model placement 15:12 Jordach benrob0329, the block breakers code stretches back to 2013 15:12 Jordach as a stopgap measure for a skyblock 15:14 Jordach i'm just giving it that 2017 paintjob it deserves 15:32 FourFire How do I make the subgame MC2 a depend for my mod? 15:32 FourFire where do I find the title is it just the folder name? 15:36 Jordach lmao 15:36 Jordach you can't depend on subgames 15:36 Jordach only mods 15:36 Jordach if you know the list of mods MC2 comes with, then depend on those 15:44 FourFire well damn I only need the nodes 15:49 benrob0329 I have realized that Sam's idle animation make no sense 15:50 benrob0329 If you stand up, and do what you would expect an idle to be, you'll probably look around and shift your weight around on your hips 15:51 benrob0329 If you do what Sam does you'll do 1 hump per second and rotate your whole body around to look at your surroundings 15:53 benrob0329 sofar: can the head movement idea you had be done in Lua? 15:55 benrob0329 For that matter, can you control just one bone of an entities animation while leaving the rest animated? 16:10 sofar you can but it makes no sense, the engine can do it 10x more efficient 16:10 sofar also, it's already done 16:24 Jordach benrob0329, sofar: this thing does something related to input; https://jordach.net/images/pevsacfevjjduiuhnl.png 16:27 benrob0329 sofar: head movement is already done for 0.5? 16:28 benrob0329 Jordach: I like that you're doing the text in the texture, rather than using the default font (which IMHO does not fit the rest of the game) 16:28 benrob0329 Custom fonts should be a thing. 16:28 Jordach benrob0329, and unlike the default text 16:29 Jordach it scales to screens properly 16:29 Jordach even at 1080p+ 16:29 Jordach it's still that 12pt font 16:29 benrob0329 Along with font rendering for textures 16:53 * RoaryTiger is hidden 16:54 RoaryTiger Anyone running 0.5 server already? 16:54 * Jordach is 16:56 * Mr_Pardison doesn't even run a server but just watches and learns about things here 16:59 RoaryTiger Im very likely going to 0.5, 0.4 seems to be too messed up 17:01 RoaryTiger going homr 17:22 FourFire So I'm trying to make my mod compatible with MC2 and I'm getting: ...\mods\mc2plus-master\mc_biomes/ores.lua:55: attempt to call field 'layer_to_y' (a nil value) 17:23 FourFire Line 55 is: energy = tonumber(nano_data:get_string("Energy")) 17:23 FourFire so the first time I'm loading a local int from mod storage 17:24 FourFire does MC2 use different mod storage? 17:26 Roger9 idea: 17:26 Roger9 minetest logo should have a small chance to say "minteast" instead 17:49 benrob0329 FourFire: is there an actual Energy value? 17:49 benrob0329 Or are you trying to load nothing? 17:49 FourFire I initialize it before hand 17:50 FourFire this works fine with my mod which is dependent on default blocks 17:50 benrob0329 In mod storage? 17:50 FourFire I'm just trying to translate it to MC2 blocks 17:50 FourFire yes I do: if nano_data:get_string("Energy") == "" then 17:50 FourFire nano_data:set_string("Energy", "0") 17:50 benrob0329 Not the variable, the actual string in mod storage 17:51 FourFire The initalization sets it to 0, no? 17:51 benrob0329 FourFire: if there isnt a value in mod storage it will be set to nil 17:52 FourFire yep, which means the initialization is not working for some reason, right? 17:52 benrob0329 So while you may initialize the energy variable, you probably dont initialize the value in mod storage 17:53 benrob0329 But you probably dont want to reset it value every time either 17:53 benrob0329 So I would make the function return 0 if energy is nil. 17:54 benrob0329 Aka, if (energy) return energy else return nil 17:55 FourFire doesn't the line of code I paste above initialize the storage first, then this line: 17:55 FourFire energy = tonumber(nano_data:get_string("Energy")) 17:55 FourFire afterwards loads the mod storage value into the local int. 18:00 FourFire benrob0329, do you know who in here is most in charge of MC2, perhaps i can talk with them 18:00 benrob0329 FourFire: nil != empty string 18:00 benrob0329 Nod storage isnt game specific 18:00 benrob0329 Its an engine thing 18:00 * Krock Nods 18:00 FourFire can i use the || operator inside if statements? 18:01 Krock FourFire, in C++, C and C# yes. Lua: no. 18:01 FourFire I don't understand why it works with one mod but not the other 18:01 benrob0329 FourFire: use the actual word or 18:01 Krock use "and" and "or" 18:01 FourFire it's literally the same mod but with node names changed 18:01 benrob0329 that's probably not the problem 18:01 benrob0329 New world, new values 18:02 FourFire what is this "layer_to_y" thing then? 18:03 benrob0329 FourFire: ohh 18:03 benrob0329 Your mod is not the problem 18:03 benrob0329 MC2 is broke 18:03 benrob0329 I should've read the error message more carefully 18:03 FourFire Oh I'll try an earlier version of MC2 then 18:04 Mr_Pardison afk lunch 18:04 FourFire where should i submit the bug report, on the MC2 thread, MC2 github? 18:05 benrob0329 FourFire: github 18:06 Krock ensure that you mention @Wuzzy2 as often you can to trigger them 18:07 Krock not really no. it'll show up in their notifications anyway ;) 18:08 sofar benrob0329: you can already do head movement in lua (player_anim mod) 18:09 benrob0329 sofar: thats not the point though 18:10 benrob0329 The player_anim mod hand animated everything 18:10 benrob0329 *animates 18:10 sofar obviously it's better to do this in the engine 18:10 benrob0329 My question is can you leave everything but a specific bone to normal animation? 18:10 benrob0329 Yes, in engine with smoothing and niceness is better 18:10 sofar don't see why not 18:11 sofar but tbh I don't know the code that well 18:15 sofar smoothing, maybe, even without it would be fine I think 18:15 sofar the body rotation is where it gets tricky, but visually appealing much more 18:17 benrob0329 I feel like you'd need to make the head the parent bone, and have tge body inherit rotation (after a certain amount of rotation) 18:18 benrob0329 So, reverse the parenting of the skeleton and put rotation locks on the neck 18:19 benrob0329 I dont think we have the physics to do that though 18:23 sofar the best way to model and animate is to make the hip bone of a model the root 18:23 sofar that way, if the head moves, the body doesn't 18:24 sofar if you do it the other way around, the whole body moves if you rotate the head 18:24 sofar and then you have to rotate the body *back* 18:24 ThomasMonroe what would happen if the head was a separate entity? 18:24 sofar if the head isn't connected to the body, nothing happens to the body if you rotate the head 18:24 sofar (with the hip being the root) 18:25 Jordach sofar, lmao, my model doesn't do that 18:25 sofar btw, player_anim does it the hard way 18:25 sofar since the default character model is setup wrong in that way 18:25 Jordach there is a bone before the body bone (known as root, aka parent of all bones) 18:25 sofar i'm certain Jordach didn't make that mistake 18:25 Jordach my armature has a proper root bone 18:26 Jordach where the body can rotate independantly of the root 18:26 sofar yes, that also solves it 18:26 Jordach arms, legs and head have the body as parent, root is just to move it 18:26 benrob0329 sofar: but we want the head to rotate before the body, not the other way around 18:26 Jordach benrob0329, local rotation TM 18:26 sofar "before" ? 18:27 sofar you don't want head movement also rotating the body 18:27 benrob0329 The head should move before the body starts to 18:27 Jordach then the head should be parented to the root bone, benrob0329 18:27 sofar that's phase 2 of head movement 18:27 sofar phase 1: head rotation (tilt/pan) 18:27 sofar phase 2: lazy body movement 18:28 sofar if a player stands still, and looks around - head rotates 18:28 benrob0329 So you just want to do all the rotation manually, in engine 18:28 sofar if a player moves - body rotates the right way 18:28 Jordach benrob0329, https://i.imgur.com/bAGTZah.png 18:28 sofar it's not manual if the engine does it, really 18:29 benrob0329 I'm saying this could be done with rotation constraints 18:30 Jordach benrob0329, constraints in blender yes 18:30 Jordach constraints in exported models no 18:31 benrob0329 Thus my comment earlier about how MT doesnt have the stuff to do it 18:31 benrob0329 But if rotation constraints were a thing, it would allow for better animation in general 18:32 Jordach benrob0329, my model is the final word in character models 18:32 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/2z5fPlL.png 18:32 Jordach it has a mesh for 64x32 18:33 Jordach one for armour in 64x32, a shield, and the 64x64 layer 18:36 Krock why are diamonds always shown in turquoise color? Too bright and colorized 18:41 sofar the whole idea of armor covering evrything is terrible 18:41 benrob0329 Krock: because white diamonds would be too realistic 18:42 Mr_Pardison they could come in a variety of shades depending on the depth the spawn at but in creative it would only have one shade. 18:42 Mr_Pardison just my 2 cents. 18:42 Krock sofar, more decent shading and a higher resolution would improve that, wouldn't it? 18:43 sofar no 18:43 sofar armor should be supplemental to the skin visually 18:43 sofar not replace it 18:44 Krock that's an overlay texture. perhaps are the layers not thick/distanced enough? 18:44 sofar "am I hitting Jill or Jack? All these skins look the same when covered in diamond armor? *shrug* *whacks*" 18:44 Krock oh, that's what you meant. I see. 18:45 FourFire I think the game could benefit a lot from having additonal sounds for sounded actions, but I recognize the difficulty of recording them 18:45 sofar play on "inside the box" with headphones on, and tell me what sounds you're still missing 18:46 benrob0329 sofar: UI sounds 18:47 benrob0329 I actually thought about making an issue for that today 18:47 sofar skip UI sounds for now (but sure) 18:47 Krock benrob0329, we already have one for that somewhere 18:47 benrob0329 Button clicks and such for the main menu, like a game would have 18:47 sofar it's actually easy 18:47 benrob0329 And maybe some quite, chill menu music for MTG 18:47 Krock (regarding client-sided button feedback) 18:47 benrob0329 Just because that's what people will first see 18:48 sofar benrob0329: well ITB doesn't need those, it has those 18:49 benrob0329 Also, what if the first screen you saw was Play/Play Online 18:50 sofar we was talking sounds, ye of short concentration 18:51 sofar I've spent a lot of time working on the soundscape for ITB, so I'd like to use it as a future reference for other projects 18:52 sofar hence the request for feedback and see if it misses sounds 18:52 sofar afk a bit 19:10 * Jordach creates a util function 19:10 Jordach a truncator for facedir /4 19:10 Jordach (well, param2 / 4) 19:15 * twoelk wonders wether Jordach ever considered sharing his Blender knowledge on the wiki 19:15 Jordach i'd fry the noobs minds 19:15 twoelk :-D 19:15 Mr_Pardison their brains taste better sauted in a brown butter sauce. 19:15 Jordach blender is the emacs of the 3d modeling software world 19:16 twoelk some nice screenshots with remarks might be an easy start 19:17 * Mr_Pardison sees no one got his joke and that he should get some better material 19:28 Megaf Greeings gentlemen and two ladies. 19:28 Megaf Greetings* 19:29 Mr_Pardison Greetings, fellow homo sapien 19:31 Megaf Some people don't quite believe I'm homo sapiens 19:31 * twoelk imagines aliens making first contact via irc 19:31 * Megaf hide 19:31 Mr_Pardison *gasps* you're not human? 19:32 Megaf I tried to prove I'm human to some people yet they don't believe I am 19:32 Megaf So yeah 19:35 twoelk not much of the place exists my parents claim to have been born, all destroyed in ww2, so no proof of my family's origin on earth :-D 19:36 Mr_Pardison DNA might help. 19:36 Mr_Pardison Nat Geo and Ancestry.com both have decent holiday offers. 19:38 twoelk hm, but then I wouldn't be able to make mysterious remarks 19:39 Mr_Pardison I'd get one just to see where I'm from but I still won't know where I'm going. 19:42 twoelk my family claims to be able to track ancestors to about the napoleonic wars. he seems to have disrupted the area somewhat 19:45 Jordach got a strange bug 19:45 Jordach two different functions 19:45 Jordach and a node timer 19:46 Jordach they copy pos into their own local, yet edit one another when used together 19:46 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/15cef28c52e76a4d61808fa02a1ff199 19:47 sfan5 local npos = pos will not create a copy 19:47 sfan5 use table.copy() 19:48 Jordach you'd expect it to copy irregardless 19:49 Mr_Pardison codehs.com is really dumb. 19:50 Mr_Pardison doing HTML right now (EASY!) and I didn't have to put any links in nor image sources and it took it to be right. 19:51 sfan5 Jordach: the problem with languages like lua is that there is no explicit indicator whether something is a reference or a value 19:51 Jordach sfan5, for a scripting language that says it's C but a scripting language seems to lie like theresa may 19:52 * Jordach drinks bleach 19:52 Mr_Pardison o/ Sokomine 20:04 IhrFussel table.copy() only copies the first level of a table? Or is that definition deprecated? 20:07 sfan5 not sure 20:08 sfan5 don't we have table.deepcopy()? 20:10 sofar it deepcopies afaik 20:10 sofar would be terrible if it didn't deepcopy by default 20:24 IhrFussel sofar, the lua docs I found say it doesn't deepcopy, MT's lua_api.txt mentions deepcopy 20:25 sofar submit a documentation fix? 20:26 sofar and test it, of course 20:26 sofar I could be full of it 20:26 sofar print(dump(table.copy({a = { b = "deepcopy!"}}))) 20:29 IhrFussel I'm guessing standard lua doesn't even have "table.copy" so MT likely implements it manually with deep copy 20:30 IhrFussel The lua docs just say "A generic table.copy function is not guaranteed to suit all use-cases, as there are many different aspects which must be selected for the specific situation. For example: should metatables be shared or copied? Should we check userdata for a __copy metamethod? These questions (as well as many others) must be asked and answered by the developer." 20:38 benrob0329 sofar: thinking about the main menu made me thing about how the main menu needs some work 20:39 sofar why are you bothering me about the main menu thing? 20:39 sofar I never wanted to talk about it 20:39 sofar :P 20:41 benrob0329 heh 20:44 sofar (not that it isn't a problem or needs work) 20:48 Mr-Pardison got my minimap to be completely black on d/l! 20:48 Mr-Pardison pretty neat. 20:51 * benrob0329 posted a file: minetest_main_menu_idea.png (45KB) 21:02 Krock The mod & texture pack overview plus all the settings in one button? duh 21:11 benrob0329 Krock: Organized settings would help :-) 21:12 benrob0329 rather than advanced settings being where everything is dumped, we could organize them in a proper settings panel 21:13 benrob0329 heck, we could just take the categories from Advanced settings and turn them into tabs and sub-tabs 21:55 benrob0329 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3818#issuecomment-348332793 22:05 IhrFussel Regarding the "CSM can access locked chests" I highly think that your chest mod(s) simply don't have allow_metadata_inventory_put/take/move callbacks with proper owner checking 22:06 IhrFussel Many chest modders are too lazy to really put that owner check in EACH of those callbacks 22:07 IhrFussel CSM requires you to do that, or else your chests/storage nodes will get compromised sooner or later 22:13 nerzhul IhrFussel, it's not CSM which require that, it's just... you 22:14 nerzhul SSM mods security cannot be compromised by CSM as they run on different machines 22:14 nerzhul if a mod is lazy coded, it's just shitty lazy coded 22:14 IhrFussel nerzhul, CSM made this more necessary...I'm not saying that's a bad thing 22:15 nerzhul IhrFussel, yeah it has a nice side effects, modders can be attacked like PHP apps can be easily attacked by tweaking HTTP requetss with firefox console :p 22:15 IhrFussel Before CSM it was almost impossible (without very good c++ knowledge) to access metadata of nodes without permission 22:16 IhrFussel And server owners/modders knew that so they likely got lazy there...and now it bites them back 22:19 IhrFussel I'm neutral regarding CSM ... I don't love it and I don't hate it... I see at least a couple of good uses for it (for example when server and clients work together) and I was one of those who complained about the idea of completely disabling CSM with no way to enable it server-side 22:20 benrob0329 As of right now server provided csm does not exist, and client provided csm is used for cheating 22:20 IhrFussel And I gotta admit it helped me with a few security risks in certain mods ... benrob0329 servers can already communicate with clients AFAIK some client mods do it ... so it enhances certain gameplay 22:21 benrob0329 IhrFussel: but you have yo manually install them 22:21 benrob0329 *to 22:21 benrob0329 CSM should have waited until 0.5 imho 22:22 IhrFussel Yes that's the painful part of it... and will hopefully be improved soon 22:22 IhrFussel I agree there...CSM should have released with 0.5.0 but who knows if flavors would've been added then... I think the feature was only added cause of negative feedback 22:23 IhrFussel No CSM = no negative feedback 22:24 IhrFussel It's just very very unfortunate that server owners who don't want to switch to 0.5.0 yet can only hope that no CSM will damage their server 22:26 IhrFussel When 0.5.0 releases server owners will only have 2 options: 1. Upgrade and lose ~ 90% of your userbase but have CSM restrictions or 2. Stay on 0.4.X with your old userbase and be vulnerable to all kinds of CSM 22:26 sfan5 ｄａｍａｇｅ 22:26 sfan5 do you also fear that ordinary cheaters "damage" your server? 22:28 IhrFussel sfan5, damage is relative to what kind of server the "cheater" joins... on a creative server I doubt that stealing from chests is seen as bad ... but on a survival server where players are supposed to gather their materials by hard work...absolutely 22:28 sfan5 okay waitr 22:28 sfan5 here's a PSA: no mention of the locked chest issue unless it has been reproduced by devs 22:28 sfan5 since it's not even confirmed please stop using it as an argument everywhere 22:29 IhrFussel There are other examples like ore_detect ... it's not just 1 type of CSM that could "damage" a server..it's quite a few and I'm sure some are yet to be created 22:30 sfan5 oredetect is a legitimate problem, i agree 22:31 Grandolf solution for oredetect is to use UFI codes 22:32 Grandolf in all your ores 22:32 IhrFussel CSM definitely lowered the barrier to spam (hi mod) and other cheating ... but like I said there are also usecases where CSM enhances the game ... it has both sides 22:32 Grandolf a pain, and untested 22:33 IhrFussel Can you even use that code in /giveme then ? 22:33 Grandolf IhrFussel i dont really care for CSM myself, but now that its been implemented, its not easy to take out, since people will just not update 22:33 Grandolf no IhrFussel 22:34 Grandolf but if you have unified inventory you should still be able to pul stuff out 22:34 IhrFussel Then it's useless...admins/moderators need to be able to get items via /give and /giveme ... there are items that are hidden from the inventory 22:35 Grandolf then refer to previous comment: now that its been implemented, its not easy to take out, since people will just not update 22:35 IhrFussel Also not only will clients just not update, big servers will very likely not update soon either... tenplus1 mentioned that he will upgrade to 0.5.0 when it releases but not every server owner wants to take the risk of losing LOTS of players 22:37 IhrFussel I mean *who* will want to upgrade to 0.5.0 as player if there are only very few servers (first) that support the client ... the only hope is the big Android re-design 22:38 Grandolf 5.0 doesn support previous versions? 22:38 Jordach sofar 22:39 Jordach i have functional pipeworks minus the entity lag 22:39 IhrFussel 0.5.0 raised the minimum protocol version to 36 AFAIK and 0.4.16 is protocol version 32 22:39 sofar so, no entities? 22:39 Jordach entirely entityless and feels exactly like MC hoppers, without the only going downards part 22:39 sofar animated textures and smart UV mapping? 22:40 Jordach not a fan of those 22:40 IhrFussel 0.4.17 will also stay on version 32 I'd guess since there will be no breaking feature implemented...just a few smaller ones + bugfixes 22:41 IhrFussel I can test it right now if I find a 0.5.0 server..one sec 22:42 IhrFussel Grandolf, confirmed I get an error that the server requires version 36 and my client only supports 25-35 22:43 Grandolf kk 22:44 IhrFussel So yes, 0.4.16/0.4.17 cannot connect to 0.5.0 (unless the server owner manually edits the min_protocol_version which would cause many bugs or even crashes) 22:45 IhrFussel Am I right? @ core devs 22:46 Amaz IhrFussel: I'm not a core dev, but from what I understan, yup, that's right. 0.4.16 can't connect to 0.5.0 servers. 22:47 Amaz (And 0.5.0 can't connect to 0.4.16 servers) 22:48 IhrFussel Amaz, I know but I wanted to know what IF a server owner edits the c++ hard coded minimum protocol version to say 32 which would (theoretically) support 0.4.16 again 22:48 shivajiva it does seem to hinge on the droid client and the fact 0.4 was spoiled just prior to 0.5 could be seen by some individuals as an intentional move to undermine the security of 0.4 whilst making breaking changes. 22:49 Amaz IhrFussel: Ah, okay. I think that would crash the client before/as it joined. 22:50 Jordach >starts recording demo 22:50 Jordach >crash 22:50 IhrFussel If nerzhul's ASIO PR gets merged before release the networks will be completely incompatible so older clients couldn't even connect to a 0.5.0 server ... I just remembered that PR 22:53 Shara What worries me is if there ends up being more than one compatibility breaking version in a row... 0.5 is already going to make all kinds of fun 22:53 Shara Personally I don't want to rush into 0.5... more than one server owner is only in a hurry to get it thanks to CSM... 22:53 shivajiva ASIO doesn't make it into 0.5 it's been delayed for testing I believe 22:54 Shara So we'll have two compat breaking releases in a row? 22:54 shivajiva :) 22:54 IhrFussel shivajiva, 0.5.0 will not release before Feb 2018 22:54 Shara And given the public server list is usually showing servers of at least three versions... I pity the players 22:55 Amaz If the ASIO is going to be merged, it should be before 0.5. 22:55 CBugDCoder definatly 22:56 IhrFussel 0.4.17 was supposed to release this month (in 5 minutes it's dec here) but probably delayed too now? 22:56 shivajiva I feel for both players and server owners, it's going to be a rough ride either way 22:56 nerzhul IhrFussel, it's exact yes 22:56 Shara I still see myself whitelisting my servers come the release of 0.5 and calling it a day 22:56 nerzhul Shara, it's not delayed, we have no release date for 0.5 atm 22:56 Shara I didn't say it is delayed... 22:56 nerzhul i just need time to finish tracking a windows anoying bug, else it's perfectly stable 22:57 nerzhul better to have all compat break in one row than doing it every 6 months 22:57 IhrFussel nerzhul, I actively helped testing the PR for over a week xP 22:58 shivajiva nrz: I said it's delayed, based on lack of testing 22:58 CBugDCoder question will there be a iphone/ipad app for 0.5.0? 22:58 IhrFussel ASIO PR is 100% stable on Ubuntu ... the last time I connected to nrz's test server I had 0 bugs and 0 crashes for over an hour straight 22:59 Shara nerzhul: Any chance you could tak e alook at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6717 and let me know if I made the changes you wanted correctly? 22:59 Jordach https://youtu.be/jU5HkFtyBh8 :^) 22:59 IhrFussel CBugDCoder, Apple doesn't allow LGPL software 23:00 CBugDCoder ugg so then how is there an app now? 23:00 IhrFussel Illegal, it breaks the MT license 23:01 CBugDCoder so if a server updates then all iphone/ipad users are "banned" 23:01 shivajiva clearly we need a public server we can stress test ASIO on as a community, something permanent and advertised as such? 23:01 IhrFussel Greedy app devs don't give a damn about licenses 23:01 nerzhul Shara, why not remove version from client_mod_api too ? 23:02 nerzhul they are very similar 23:02 Shara because I'm focused on lua_api only for now. I'll get to the others later 23:02 IhrFussel CBugDCoder, yes exactly...and the iDevices userbase is huge in MT 23:02 Shara I don't want these PRs sitting around too long, due to how often documents might get updated, and I have no time the next few days. 23:03 IhrFussel I mean app devs *will* find a way to create another illegal 0.5.0 app in the future... but it takes lots of work I think 23:04 IhrFussel Until now they could just use 0.4.11 client code which is still supported in 0.4.16 servers 23:05 benrob0329 Jordach: particles? 23:05 CBugDCoder if apple doesnt allow LGPL then how is there a mac app 23:07 shivajiva ask apple lol 23:07 Jordach benrob0329, particles for whqt 23:07 IhrFussel I think the restriction is only in their store...iTunes or whatever ... Mac doesn't use the store necessarily...or does it? 23:08 CBugDCoder idk i have never used apple XD 23:08 benrob0329 Jordach: pipes, or did you ditch those since last I knew? 23:08 IhrFussel You can install homebrew on Mac..that's what I know 23:09 Jordach benrob0329, i've been working on them all evening 23:12 CBugDCoder so if the licence of MT was changed to another FOSS licence it might be able to be added to the apple store :/ 23:13 benrob0329 Screw iOS 23:16 CBugDCoder true but that is a large portion of the playerbase 23:17 benrob0329 Screw people who don't bother to use the internet :^) 23:17 CBugDCoder ? 23:19 sofar there's nothing wrong (from our perspective) with apple store versions of minetest 23:19 sofar only apple has an issue with it 23:19 sofar if the source can be obtained properly... I'd say we shouldn't care 23:20 benrob0329 CBugDCoder: to actually look up the game 23:20 benrob0329 sofar: that is true 23:21 CBugDCoder i noticed that the app store has GPL apps so why can it have GPL and not LGPL 23:22 sofar it can't. gpl/lgpl are the same for license requirements for as far as they are concerned 23:23 benrob0329 Apple doesnt like copyleft licenses because walled garden :^) 23:24 sofar bottom line is that app stores and GPL don't mix, since apple can not verify that the app sources are actually the same as the ones used to build the app 23:24 benrob0329 Also I think this proves the curation of the App Store is crap 23:24 sofar and if apple redistributes GPL, then apple must provide sources 23:25 sofar so they cannot legally have gpl apps in the store unless they build the software 23:25 sofar and of course, they don't. 23:25 sofar the GPL actually is ambiguous about this 23:25 sofar on purpose 23:26 sofar the GPL could say that "app stores etc" are not the ones that are required to provide sources, but the original vendor should 23:26 sofar but that is a slippery slope that the FSF would never agree on 23:26 sofar besides, courts might invalidate it entirely 23:26 IhrFussel Here is a relevant link (old but probably still correct) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/459833/which-open-source-licenses-are-compatible-with-the-apples-iphone-and-its-offici 23:26 sofar enough legal speak yet? 23:27 sofar that article has little to do with the reason that the app store doesn't allow gpl/lgpl 23:28 sofar it's entirely irrelevant, even (it's not incorrect, though, but it doesn't clearly state the reason why apple disallows GPL apps) 23:29 sofar heck that thread is full with conjecture 23:29 benrob0329 So...use illegal apps with care. 23:31 sofar well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with MT builds for ios 23:31 IhrFussel sofar, what? I clearly lists the problems with using (L)GPL on their app store and what requirements you likely cannot meet 23:31 sofar it's when the people making them do not distribute their sources that there is a problem 23:31 IhrFussel It* 23:31 sofar IhrFussel: you can totally make a legal ios GPL application 23:32 sofar the problem is that apple won't allow them in the appstore 23:32 sofar and for good legal reasons 23:32 IhrFussel Yes but the app store may reject your software...it would still be legal to distribute it for iOS 23:32 sofar obviously, illegally linking apps are not legal, but they are illegal everywhere 23:32 sofar even outside of the app store... 23:33 sofar do you see the difference? 23:33 IhrFussel But almost nobody is able to download apps from outside the store 23:33 sofar yes, I'm not disclaiming the ramifications of that restriction 23:33 IhrFussel Why can Google allow "every" licence then? 23:34 sofar Google may or may not be in trouble for the exact same reason 23:34 sofar however, reality shows that users do not sue google for not having GPL sources for apps 23:35 sofar and google honors takedown requests 23:35 sofar Apple lawyers are clearly more anal 23:35 sofar culture is likely also a factor 23:35 sofar especially since android uses a GPL kernel 23:35 sofar ! 23:35 IhrFussel So anyone could tell Google "I didn't get my licence when downloading the LGPL software Minetest" and Google might remove it?? 23:36 sofar I don't see why not 23:36 sofar https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest&hl=en 23:37 sofar no links to source code anywhere 23:38 sofar anyone could complain, really 23:38 sofar there's not even a "license" field anywhere afaics 23:39 IhrFussel Requires Android 23:39 IhrFussel 2.3 and up 23:39 IhrFussel Didn't know we support such old versions 23:42 IhrFussel Okay well the good thing is that Android allows you to download/install apps from anywhere (just need to enable it in settings) so in case of a removal, the majority of users could still play 23:43 IhrFussel Shouldn't we link the source code in the description though? I mean a link to github 23:44 benrob0329 ^ 23:48 IhrFussel Off for the night, see ya