| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:10 |
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| 03:22 |
* benrob0329 |
tries to reproduce the tardis lock bug |
| 03:35 |
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| 04:42 |
rubenwardy |
shivajiva: when I ban someone, it should kick any connected accounts |
| 04:42 |
rubenwardy |
not just the name I ban |
| 04:43 |
rubenwardy |
ie: say foo and bar both connect from the same ip, they'll then be connected in the database as the same user. If I ban foo, it should kick bar too if in game |
| 05:44 |
jas_ |
paramat: i was only half-serious. i bring it up because everytime i push f9 without a mapping kit i see this message, and think "no it's not you silly engine!" |
| 06:07 |
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| 08:10 |
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| 08:28 |
jas_ |
benrob0329: ok now i just need to make it more precise and with a better texture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3_7PJEpFg |
| 08:29 |
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| 08:51 |
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| 09:18 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:20 |
Megaf[College] |
Morning |
| 09:20 |
jas_ |
alright, happy with these two textures now (n, nw .. rotated using ^[transform..) https://imgur.com/a/UfoNf ... push it to https://github.com/jastevenson303/dcbl_default .. and is live on dcbl server. |
| 09:20 |
jas_ |
good morning megaf, how goes college? |
| 09:21 |
TigerInCollege |
good. Having a test on number conversions momentarily |
| 09:21 |
TigerInCollege |
convert decimal, binary and hexa |
| 09:23 |
jas_ |
good luck to you |
| 09:26 |
jas_ |
https://twitch.tv/jastvn streaming for a few minutes |
| 09:26 |
TigerInCollege |
Gonna need all luck. I have no idea how to do the conversions |
| 09:26 |
jas_ |
yikes! |
| 10:11 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:11 |
TigerInCollege |
So yeah, my classmates having network issues. DNS not resolving, network timeouts and stuff |
| 10:11 |
TigerInCollege |
me on Linux having no issues whatsoever |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:53 |
* TigerInCollege |
is hidden |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:08 |
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| 11:11 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:26 |
shivajiva |
Megaf you're such a tease, pretending you don't know how to convert between bases :P |
| 11:29 |
TigerInCollege |
Actually I don't |
| 11:29 |
TigerInCollege |
I got 1/30 right |
| 11:30 |
TigerInCollege |
In reality I just didnt have brain time for that |
| 11:30 |
jas_ |
just gotta learn a fast algorithm eh? |
| 11:32 |
jas_ |
i once attempted long division in front of a boss and was left pretty embarrassed. looked up online that night, was surprised to find there were so many different ways to do it. anyway, i'm rambling sorry. better luck next time megaf |
| 11:47 |
shivajiva |
it should only take a few mins to learn Megaf and then you will get 30/30 =) |
| 11:49 |
shivajiva |
reminds me of the joke 'There are only 10 types of people that understand binary...those that do and those that don't' |
| 12:01 |
TigerInCollege |
:) |
| 12:02 |
* TigerInCollege |
quietly walks by Shara |
| 12:24 |
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| 12:39 |
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| 13:21 |
CWz |
this anti net neutrality the us is doing is just poopshit |
| 13:33 |
TigerInCollege |
Hi to the people who just joined |
| 13:41 |
Calinou |
hi :) |
| 13:58 |
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| 14:07 |
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Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:16 |
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FourFire joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:16 |
FourFire |
Greetings, I am trying to program my first lua mod, following https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en |
| 14:18 |
FourFire |
I get an error when enabling my simple mod in game: Failed to enable "modname" as it contains disallowed charzscters. Only characters [a-z0-9_] are allowed] |
| 14:18 |
FourFire |
does this refer to the contents of init.lua ? |
| 14:19 |
Shara |
What is your mod actually named? |
| 14:19 |
FourFire |
"Nano" |
| 14:20 |
Shara |
Try nano |
| 14:39 |
FourFire |
Okay now it loads. |
| 14:39 |
FourFire |
What do I need to add in order to specify how my nodes will generate in the world? |
| 14:40 |
FourFire |
I don't see any references n that guide |
| 14:40 |
FourFire |
besides the "is_ground_content = true," line which doesn't specify frequency or location or anything |
| 14:47 |
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| 14:54 |
FourFire |
Shara, could you answer my question about worldgen and mod nodes? |
| 14:54 |
Shara |
They won't generate unless you have some kind of code that will cause them to |
| 14:54 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4819 |
| 14:55 |
Shara |
Simply registering a node won't do it. Best approach is to read that link and also look at the code for any mods you can think of which do similar things to what you want. |
| 14:57 |
Shara |
You need to decide if they are some kind of decoration, or show up like gravel/sand/ores, or if you are making a new biome. |
| 14:58 |
FourFire |
Okay thanks |
| 14:59 |
Shara |
No problem. Can try to help more once you know exactly what you are aiming for, but AFK for a while. |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:26 |
TigerInCollege |
Guys, later today I will very likely be officially leaving Minetest and it's community. |
| 15:26 |
TigerInCollege |
I really enjoyed been part of this amazing group of people but the time to leave has come |
| 15:26 |
Megaf |
I wish you all the best for you all |
| 15:31 |
Shara |
Megaf: What has triggered that? |
| 15:31 |
Megaf |
Immaturity. |
| 15:32 |
Shara |
Anything that can be done? |
| 15:32 |
Megaf |
more details on pvt |
| 15:42 |
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| 16:05 |
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Amaz joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:28 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:53 |
Megaf |
Will be back later folks |
| 16:53 |
Megaf |
going home on foot |
| 17:37 |
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| 17:39 |
jas_ |
https://github.com/jastevenson303/gen_music |
| 17:40 |
Megaf |
jas_, What's your streamings about? |
| 17:40 |
Megaf |
I never watched you live but I was always curious |
| 17:40 |
jas_ |
me playing dcbl, or develping it |
| 17:40 |
Megaf |
dbc1? whats that? |
| 17:40 |
jas_ |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18163 |
| 17:41 |
jas_ |
it's a sub-game i been working on lately |
| 17:50 |
jas_ |
i got a youtube here: https://youtube.com/jastevenson303 |
| 17:50 |
jas_ |
guess that's not how that works anymore |
| 17:51 |
jas_ |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpvlmbZO1rsWF18fBhP9aWA |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
cool jas_ |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
good to know that |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:04 |
IhrFussel |
Hello guys |
| 18:06 |
jas_ |
hi IhrFussel |
| 18:09 |
jas_ |
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/203643146 this is a bit of me playing earlier, megaf. sometimes i show the whole desktop and goof off in the code. no mic or cam, just the game or the desktop, sometimes music if i can get away with it |
| 18:09 |
jas_ |
twitch's copyright filter doesn't trigger as easily as youtube's |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:10 |
jas_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_veXOs9DEVc <-- there now it's on youtube.. still processing tho |
| 18:11 |
jas_ |
tomeninodes told me i either needed to add commentary or split them up, so i try not to make them too long. there's a four hour long one on there somewhere. |
| 18:18 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:34 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:41 |
Fixer |
do we have some magic/alchemy mods in minetest? |
| 18:55 |
shivajiva |
anyone confirm the buildbot.sh doesn't work for the current head? |
| 19:04 |
Fixer |
yesterday my modified one worked |
| 19:04 |
Fixer |
or preyesterday |
| 19:21 |
sfan5 |
shivajiva: you can just look at the current travis status for win32 and win64 since that's using the buildbot |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
Fixer, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9691 |
| 19:26 |
Fixer |
nice, a bit tiny |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
I'm sure you could combine it with mount meru, so there will be slightly larger piles |
| 19:33 |
Fixer |
not enough magic |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
am I wrong or some mods in minetest allows infinite ore doubling? I hope it is not technic |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
there used to be such a bug in the circular saw/moreblocks like a year ago, I think. |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
remember |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
such problems can happen quite fast as the inventory move actions aren't triggered in a helpful way |
| 19:38 |
Krock |
> trash-mail.com being invalid |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
i have impression that rnd machines had ore doubling, i hope we don't allow such thing in technic |
| 19:43 |
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Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:44 |
Fixer |
sojourner stuff - charged with torches - places torches, noice, we need dat |
| 20:16 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:19 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:45 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:17 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:43 |
Megaf |
[15:26:12] <TigerInCollege> Guys, later today I will very likely be officially leaving Minetest and it's community. |
| 21:43 |
Megaf |
[15:26:40] <TigerInCollege> I really enjoyed been part of this amazing group of people but the time to leave has come |
| 21:44 |
Megaf |
Please ignore the first message. I am staying. |
| 21:44 |
Megaf |
And I will try to be more pro active and helpful. |
| 21:44 |
Krock |
TigerInCollege = Megaf? |
| 21:45 |
Megaf |
Krock, Yep |
| 21:46 |
Megaf |
So folks, We have to work on CSM! |
| 21:47 |
* Shara |
wonders if the devs would start with something that no one can argue is impossible... a way to handle chat spam |
| 21:48 |
paramat |
hey good |
| 21:48 |
rubenwardy |
Shara, would be good |
| 21:48 |
Shara |
I think that would be a thing everyone could agree is good, regardless of personal stances on CSM. |
| 21:48 |
rubenwardy |
players can copy+paste the same thing a couple of times a second, shouldn't be possible |
| 21:49 |
paramat |
or maybe just remove chat sending from CSM? |
| 21:49 |
Krock |
Shara, we already have chat limits |
| 21:49 |
Shara |
What was the case for chat sending being in CSM? |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, I'd obviously support that |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
Shara: none |
| 21:50 |
paramat |
none |
| 21:50 |
Shara |
Krock: How do they work and are they in current stable? |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
I'm actually working on that now |
| 21:50 |
paramat |
i'll approve removing chat sending from CSM |
| 21:51 |
Shara |
I've never understood why it would be in CSM. |
| 21:51 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d4c76258 |
| 21:52 |
paramat |
the CSM devs threw as much as possible in regardless of usefulness |
| 21:52 |
Krock |
somehow these settings can only be found in the configuration tab in the current dev version, as they were removed form the .example file somewhen |
| 21:52 |
Megaf |
paramat, can we improve that? |
| 21:52 |
Shara |
I really wish the devs would get better quality control when it comes to the BIG features/changes |
| 21:53 |
Megaf |
CSM can be very good. But I believe it should be used only on very specific cases. |
| 21:53 |
paramat |
for a start, flavours should be able to disable all CSM |
| 21:53 |
Shara |
Krock: Thanks |
| 21:53 |
Krock |
!next |
| 21:54 |
ShadowBot |
Another satisfied customer. Next! |
| 21:54 |
Shara |
Heh |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
paramat: Would be nice, yes |
| 21:56 |
Megaf |
paramat, That would be great |
| 21:56 |
paramat |
flavours was coded by someone who was forced to and not happy to, and it seems rushed and there was maximum resistance to how far it went |
| 21:57 |
paramat |
so i think someone else needs to rework it |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
To be quite honest, I'd say fix them or out with CSM :) |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
Unless maybe they want to pay my servers bills for me, because I don't feel like paying to run a server I can't control anymore :) |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
I don't really get what the resistance is to server owners being able to decide the gaming experience on their own servers |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
It's not in our interests to create an environment players hate, or they'd just go somewhere else anyway |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
And given the number of empty servers, it's not like we can expect players to stay if we get unreasonable |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
So where is the need to take that control away? |
| 22:00 |
Calinou |
we could have built-in flood protection, that's fairly easy to do |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
and automatic muting or kicking |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
this is how you do flood protection, automated chat sending should definitely be allowed! |
| 22:01 |
paramat |
why? |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
I can do it in other games, why not Minetest? :) |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
it's not like I can't use WinCompose to type sentences anyway |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
Hello, world! |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
(typed with compose + "hw") |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
this works in *any* program :P |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
but yeah, I shouldn't need to do that. Just give me bindable keys for stuff :) |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
Doesn't mean you have to give a means for it to be done |
| 22:04 |
rubenwardy |
why should chat sending be in there? |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
I see no use case for it other than abusive ones. |
| 22:05 |
rubenwardy |
the only reason is for client-modifications and making a player a bot |
| 22:05 |
rubenwardy |
there is no use |
| 22:07 |
paramat |
'I can do it in other games' is absence of reason |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
there are many non-abusive use cases for automated messages |
| 22:17 |
Calinou |
both by staff and players |
| 22:17 |
Megaf |
Maybe we should just remove CSM until we have a better decision on what to do with it. If anything at all. |
| 22:18 |
Megaf |
s/decision/idea |
| 22:18 |
Calinou |
paramat: not from an user experience point of view :) |
| 22:18 |
Calinou |
it's a feature I expect |
| 22:18 |
Shara |
As a server owner, it's something I don't want. |
| 22:18 |
Calinou |
but it's not up to you to choose |
| 22:18 |
Calinou |
(at least, it shouldn't be) |
| 22:19 |
Shara |
Nor you either (not meaning any offence) |
| 22:19 |
Calinou |
I dislike games which let the server owners do everything they want |
| 22:19 |
Calinou |
including restricting random features |
| 22:19 |
Shara |
But given that CSM specifically affects servers, and I am involved in running several busy servers, what I think should at least matter |
| 22:20 |
paramat |
if 'other games' have a bad idea, no reason to add it just because other games do it |
| 22:20 |
Megaf |
I'd like CSM to be removed too. Or at least optional, with default to deactivated. Even better if it was a compile time option in the server. |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
yeah but this one isn't a bad idea :P |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
and I'm glad we have CSM (even though I never used it myself) |
| 22:20 |
Shara |
So you support inconveniencing server owners and taking control away from them? |
| 22:20 |
paramat |
f**k expectations |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
well, clients should be in control of such things |
| 22:20 |
Shara |
Why? |
| 22:20 |
paramat |
yes it is up to the server and core devs to choose |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
and this is not really inconvenient, just improve your flood protection mods |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
Why should the player get to decide these things on my server? |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
it's been done in other games, you can do it in Minetest |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
my QuakeWorld client doesn't prevent "say" binds because I'm on a specific server |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
this is just nonsense, you know |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
The player is not paying me and is not under any obligation to play on my server. |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
sure, but what if all server owners do the same thing? |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
(mostly because it's the default setting) |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
So if this updates me or causes distress to me, why should I have to put up with it? |
| 22:21 |
paramat |
quake can f**k off |
| 22:22 |
Calinou |
:suspect: |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
Calinou: if that happens, it was clearly bad to have it to begin with! |
| 22:22 |
paramat |
cal if you dislike MT's way of doing things play another game |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
Or you and people who feel like you can make your own servers |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
That's the beauty of opensource games - anyone can just go ahead and run a server or whatever they like! |
| 22:23 |
Shara |
I'm not the only server owner who is completely fed up |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
meh, that's a bad argument |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
paramat, are you a server owner? |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
people almost always polarize around a few servers which actually decide everything |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
(unfortunately) |
| 22:23 |
Shara |
Calinou: your arguments sound bad to me as well |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
Core devs, we, server admins are the ones who keep your project going. |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
it's important that the big servers (and the master server) are as "logical" as possible when it comes to rules/etc |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
we might as well leave and let MT die |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
But this is not what we want |
| 22:24 |
Shara |
Uhm, wanting to run something a specific way and wanting the freedom to choose that does not make me anything other than logical |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
We want to contribute and make MT better |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
But you have to hear us |
| 22:24 |
paramat |
quote from c55 "the design of MT is to give servers all possible control ... current CSM is bad" |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
meanwhile: client-side movement with barely any checks (which don't even work well) |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
client-side aiming, too |
| 22:25 |
Shara |
One thing having issues is an excuse to add more issues then? |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
it's dangerous to give too much freedom to server owners, many are just not good at this job, frankly put |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
look at community TF2/CS servers |
| 22:25 |
paramat |
we intend to work on serverside validation of client actions, someone already is |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
VIP systems, crappy custom content, etc |
| 22:25 |
Shara |
Am I a bad server owner? |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
maybe |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
I can't say yes or no |
| 22:26 |
paramat |
giving power to clients is far more dangerous |
| 22:27 |
Megaf |
Why don't we just make a poll among server owners? |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
in my experience, it's (almost) only positive |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
Megaf: I'm afraid that's not gonna work out :) |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
you have to ask people who don't host a server |
| 22:27 |
paramat |
cal your opinions are contrary to the philosophy of MT, it's pointless you arguing your case |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
sorry, but no |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
Calinou, what is that? |
| 22:28 |
Calinou |
argumentum ad populum is a terrible way to do anything |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
Well. We are open to alternatives |
| 22:28 |
paramat |
so all the hacked clients ruining servers and everyone's fun is positive? |
| 22:29 |
Fixer |
hacked clients were since forever long before CSM |
| 22:29 |
paramat |
your opinions are complete nonsense |
| 22:29 |
Fixer |
i even observed them |
| 22:29 |
Fixer |
csm is blown out of proportion |
| 22:29 |
Shara |
Fixer: we're well aware |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
sorry, but most people do not use a cheating client |
| 22:29 |
paramat |
yeah, i'm not talking about CSM |
| 22:29 |
Shara |
And you think that's the only thing this is about, you are simply not reading |
| 22:29 |
|
bwarden joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
there are plenty of legitimate uses to CSM, that don't harm anyone |
| 22:29 |
Fixer |
csm is good, just imrove general anticheat |
| 22:29 |
Shara |
if you* |
| 22:29 |
Megaf |
I have to agree with Fixer |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
and cheating clients aren't a new thing |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
they were here in 2011! |
| 22:30 |
Calinou |
(I speak of experience) |
| 22:30 |
Calinou |
(just saying, but most cheaters are obvious anyway, especially in the less competitive games) |
| 22:30 |
Fixer |
just by banning CSM gold_digger will be still there, fly noclipping and automining that ore near spawn |
| 22:30 |
paramat |
it doesn't take many cheating clients to ruin servers, doesn't matter if it's 0.5% |
| 22:30 |
Megaf |
(I agree with Fixer that we already had hacking before, hacking that got way worse with CSM) |
| 22:30 |
Calinou |
0.5% is tiny, really |
| 22:31 |
Fixer |
servers need active admins, thats all |
| 22:31 |
Megaf |
Disagree on that |
| 22:31 |
Shara |
It takes ONE person able to mess with locked chests to totally mess up my server |
| 22:31 |
Megaf |
You can't blame admins for a bad decision on the game design |
| 22:31 |
paramat |
there are non harmful aspects to CSM, no one denies it |
| 22:31 |
Shara |
Fixer: Should I be giving my whole admin team server access so they can view logs then? |
| 22:31 |
Shara |
Because you won't find this unless you can check logs |
| 22:31 |
Megaf |
+1 ^ |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
Shara: iirc taking out of chest was fixed some time ago |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
that inventory check |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
i forgot when exactly |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
Not based on Ten's tests yesterday |
| 22:32 |
Calinou |
viewing logs ought to be possible without server access |
| 22:32 |
Calinou |
time to fix this? :) |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
._. |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
Calinou: time to fix many many things |
| 22:32 |
shivajiva |
Cal you seriously believe that dev should control what a server owner can enable/disable because you have some altruistic belief in collectively smarter therefore better placed to control it, when other people pay to host and do the pr for the project? |
| 22:32 |
Calinou |
shivajiva: altruism is good :) |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
To the point where we get abused for it? |
| 22:33 |
Calinou |
maybe, see Wikipedia |
| 22:33 |
Calinou |
abuse will happen no matter what |
| 22:33 |
Shara |
I suppose you think I should grant everyone whatever privs they ask for? |
| 22:33 |
Calinou |
attempting to prevent it causes more tension than anything |
| 22:33 |
Calinou |
no, that's an entirely different issue |
| 22:33 |
Shara |
Resisting requests to help us limit the damage being done is what causes tension |
| 22:33 |
Megaf |
Calinou, bad comparison that one to wikipedia |
| 22:33 |
shivajiva |
what causes me tension is the stupidity displayed with regard to security |
| 22:34 |
Megaf |
different solar systems... |
| 22:34 |
Calinou |
eh, I like the Wikipedia philosophy, as weird as you can find it |
| 22:34 |
Calinou |
Shara: sorry, but this is asking for a dictatorship |
| 22:34 |
Shara |
Calinou: what right to you have to decide how my server is governed though? |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
the clients do? |
| 22:35 |
Fixer |
do we have news entry for that vulnerability with take/put in chests? can't find it |
| 22:35 |
Megaf |
Calinou, So. Again. I'm not so much so against CSM been written added to the code, I'm against it not been optional to servers admins. |
| 22:35 |
Shara |
No, they don't |
| 22:35 |
shivajiva |
he's the dictator ofc |
| 22:35 |
Megaf |
There are good uses for it, for that it should be left as an option |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
Megaf: wasn't it already disableable by admins? |
| 22:35 |
Shara |
If you force this onto us, you are the one being the dictator |
| 22:35 |
Megaf |
in the very same fashion support for leveldb is |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
Shara: everyone forces something anyway |
| 22:35 |
Megaf |
the server owner will enable it should them want |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
Megaf: is LevelDB useful today? we have SQLite (simple), Redis (very fast, RAM-intensive) and PostgreSQL (fast) |
| 22:35 |
Megaf |
So, can we make CSM into a build option? |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
LevelDB sounds like a weird middle ground |
| 22:36 |
Calinou |
much like bzip2 compression, for example |
| 22:36 |
Calinou |
Megaf: uh? |
| 22:36 |
Megaf |
that was just an example to illustrate my point |
| 22:36 |
Calinou |
that won't solve your problem, if it's disabled in the official builds |
| 22:37 |
Megaf |
battery about to die, will be back soon |
| 22:37 |
shivajiva |
sqlite is file storage with relational capabilities not to be compared with real databases imo |
| 22:37 |
Calinou |
indeed |
| 22:37 |
Calinou |
that's why I said "simple" |
| 22:38 |
shivajiva |
what was the reason for mod_storage if sqlite was available? |
| 22:39 |
rubenwardy |
mod storage is an easy key-value meta storage |
| 22:39 |
rubenwardy |
simple, unstructured |
| 22:39 |
Fixer |
gave up, where is that damn commit :( |
| 22:39 |
rubenwardy |
sqlite is better for bigger structured data |
| 22:42 |
paramat |
"abuse will happen no matter what ... attempting to prevent it causes more tension than anything" can't believe what i'm reading |
| 22:43 |
paramat |
servers are benign dictatorship, and should be, that's how MT is |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
MT is not for you, go elsewhere |
| 22:45 |
shivajiva |
but it has size restrictions that limit its usefulness, perhaps that is worth opening up as key-value meta storage is easy to implement in sqlite terms for mod creators that need simple storage. The auth handler needs to be done so why not open up sqlite storage for mods? |
| 22:46 |
Calinou |
paramat: sorry, but other games work fine with less one-sided management |
| 22:46 |
rubenwardy |
it's not productive to say "go elsewhere", paramat |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
also, I say this as someone who plays Red Eclipse (and is a global admin there) |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
yes, global admin because in Red Eclipse, servers on the master server can be controlled by players with global privileges at any time |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
(overriding local privileges) |
| 22:47 |
paramat |
i don't care about other games |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
many people have complained about this system, but I find this less bad than arbitrarily disallowing things by default |
| 22:47 |
Calinou |
(and I used to find it pretty bad) |
| 22:48 |
paramat |
well i mean why endlessly complain about how MT is instead of playig a game you actually like? |
| 22:48 |
Shara |
Calinou: add something like that in MT, and I will be closing my servers. |
| 22:48 |
paramat |
*playing |
| 22:49 |
sfan5 |
the situation is somewhat different with RE |
| 22:49 |
Fixer |
chest vulnerability was fixed, but forgot when, we need antifly and antinoclip |
| 22:49 |
Shara |
Fixer: are you sure? I have not tested myself, but based on Ten's tests it is not fixed |
| 22:49 |
sfan5 |
there are a small set of rules that everyone can agree on: (e.g.) cheating is not desirable in a shooter |
| 22:50 |
Shara |
anti-fly would be nice, but it seems quite clear it will not happen any time soon |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
mt is a sandbox so there is no such thing everyone could agree on if you look at e.g. anarchy servers |
| 22:50 |
Fixer |
Shara: it is, make sure you have up to date MTG and chests mods (or backport the fix) |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
global moderators don't make sense in this case |
| 22:50 |
Shara |
Fixer: Like I said, did not test, but a bigger concern would be whether it's fixed in backports branch or not |
| 22:51 |
Fixer |
Shara: also this https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1839 |
| 22:52 |
Shara |
That's not the same issue |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
Shara: heh |
| 22:52 |
shivajiva |
this isn't a discussion about what's enabled by default, it's about being able to disable the 'features' we don't want as individuals, it's a dictatorship the second you add something that cannot be disabled or did I miss something |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
sfan5: they could for spam, I guess |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
(and probably cheating) |
| 22:53 |
sfan5 |
Shara: not sure whether i'm missing something https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blame/backport-0.4/mods/default/nodes.lua#L1884 |
| 22:53 |
Fixer |
Shara: probably this too https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4812 |
| 22:53 |
sfan5 |
but the code related to locked chest permission checks has not been touched in 2 years |
| 22:54 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:54 |
shivajiva |
some meeting where you redefined freedom that I didn't attend perhaps or is this about the freedom not to bother if you don't like it |
| 22:54 |
Shara |
Then seems to be an issue. Will test if I can find the test code anywhere (I was on a train when someone sent me it and could not save) |
| 22:54 |
Fixer |
Shara: seems like it was fixed before 0.4.15 release iirc or 0.4.16 |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
Shara: newest 0.4.16 should be fine 100%, unless smth new pop ups |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
csm helped find the bug |
| 22:55 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: spam sure, but i wouldn't be so sure about cheating (different definitions); in any case this makes global mods /way/ less useful so you might as well not have them |
| 22:55 |
sfan5 |
Fixer: the detached inv fix by me is not related to unauthorized item taking |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
spam can be controlled already, is not it? |
| 22:56 |
Fixer |
sfan5: my memory is not entirely clear on that, can't google that |
| 22:56 |
Fixer |
it was at the time of chest inspector |
| 22:57 |
sfan5 |
that was later |
| 22:57 |
Fixer |
and was fixed in mtg somewhere |
| 22:58 |
sfan5 |
wasn't that the bug with the creative inv? |
| 22:58 |
Shara |
Fixer: was something to do with that |
| 22:58 |
Shara |
Just need to test and confirm either way, but I don't have the code Ten linked me to |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
sfan5: this one? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1839 |
| 22:59 |
sfan5 |
yea |
| 22:59 |
Shara |
creative issue is fixed as far as I know |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
hmmm |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
22 Jul, but minetest was released in june |
| 23:00 |
sfan5 |
by looking at the code i cannot find any issues with locked chests |
| 23:00 |
Shara |
Well, I will test and let you know |
| 23:01 |
sfan5 |
make sure to open an issue on mtg with the results |
| 23:01 |
Shara |
If there is a bug there, will |
| 23:02 |
* Shara |
just needs to remember how to even set up CSM now |
| 23:02 |
shivajiva |
sfan5: okay I see travis builds okay, can you tell me what version of ubuntu it's using or can that info be found somewhere? |
| 23:03 |
sfan5 |
shivajiva: the travis builds run on ubuntu precise, the scripts are here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/util/travis |
| 23:03 |
sfan5 |
relevant are before_install.sh and script.sh |
| 23:04 |
shivajiva |
ty |
| 23:04 |
|
TommyTreasure left #minetest-hub |
| 23:06 |
shivajiva |
mint 18 behaves like it can't do posix builds throwing mutex errors with the buildbot script |
| 23:11 |
Megaf |
Ok, I just figured out a workaround for CSM |
| 23:11 |
Megaf |
I will just fork the client and ship my fork to my players and forbid connection from any other client to my servers. |
| 23:11 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 23:12 |
Megaf |
That is a temporary workaround |
| 23:12 |
Megaf |
rubenwardy, precisely |
| 23:13 |
Megaf |
I wonder if it would be possible to make a mod that would detect CSM and ban the client who has it |
| 23:14 |
Megaf |
celeron55, Good evening. What's your current opinion on CSM? |
| 23:17 |
Calinou |
detecting CSM is likely not possible |
| 23:19 |
Fixer |
Megaf: it is night over here |
| 23:19 |
Megaf |
Calinou, Of course it is. It was added, so it is possible to remove it |
| 23:19 |
Megaf |
If I could remove it |
| 23:20 |
Megaf |
I could already remove bitmap font, translation, leveldb, redis and all mapgens but v6 from the code for one of my forks |
| 23:20 |
Megaf |
If I can do that I'm sure a person more knowledgeable (almost anyone of you) than me can remove CSM |
| 23:20 |
Calinou |
you said "detecting CSM from the server-side", no? |
| 23:22 |
Megaf |
Calinou, sorry, I missread |
| 23:22 |
Megaf |
I read deleting CSM |
| 23:22 |
Fixer |
nobody will play on your servers if it requires custom client |
| 23:22 |
Megaf |
Fixer, [ironic mode on] that would be more people that currently play there |
| 23:22 |
Megaf |
(server is off for now) |
| 23:23 |
Megaf |
Calinou, And I understand why is likely not possible. |
| 23:24 |
Megaf |
who takes care of 3d armour now? |
| 23:33 |
rubenwardy |
stu is still active |
| 23:33 |
Megaf |
ok |
| 23:38 |
paramat |
another CSM cheat mod trying to creep around rules https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18521 |
| 23:40 |
Calinou |
yes, probably should be removed |
| 23:40 |
Megaf |
paramat, I'm not against cheat posts on the forum |
| 23:41 |
Megaf |
especially if exposing CSM |
| 23:41 |
Megaf |
I believe we have enough reasons to drop CSM already |
| 23:41 |
Megaf |
unhappy server owners, lots of cheats, lack of control |
| 23:52 |
paramat |
hm it seems to have disappeared, thanks |
| 23:52 |
Megaf |
it's hidden or deleted |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
the current CSMods i see are very dull, or an ok idea that could be done by a server mod instead |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
we need server-provided CSMods to make it worth having |
| 23:55 |
paramat |
maybe red-001 will work on it |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
Have there been any really worthwhile CSM mods yet? |
| 23:57 |
paramat |
no |
| 23:57 |
paramat |
well, IMO |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
On one level I really want to see some to justify it all |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
But I'm just not seeing them |
| 23:57 |
Megaf |
cars, a decent cars mod, or any transport vehicle |
| 23:58 |
Shara |
That would need the server though |
| 23:58 |
Megaf |
I think those mods could make good use of CSM |
| 23:58 |
Shara |
Which at the moment doesn't work |
| 23:58 |
Megaf |
client downloads world, client takes care of movement and all |
| 23:58 |
Megaf |
so we could have cars with good pyshics and little to no lag |
