Time Nick Message 08:19 CWz just did something stupid. i made a texturepack for myself that replaces steel axe,pick and shovel with bongs. newbs are now stoners 11:41 Megaf Heya 11:41 Megaf Just installed ircloud here again 11:41 Megaf Let's see if it's any good 11:49 IhrFussel Okay guys I ran my modified mod profiler for 3 days now and *not even once* I saw 1 lag-entry that could come even close to the max_lag the server reports when a few more players play...the highest I saw was 720 ms caused by mod zombies but that was very rare...most "lag mods" caused 3-5 ms lag which would never explain 2+ secs max_lag 11:51 sfan5 the lag can also be caused inside C++ code 11:52 IhrFussel How can the engine lag for 2 seconds outside of Lua? 11:54 Megaf Speaking of mods, do we have a tool that will load the whole map, like clear objects does, and remove all unknown objects? 12:17 IhrFussel 99.9% certain it's not the mods now... I disabled all my mods (expect areas + MTG) and the max_lag peaks at 1.7 secs with 3 players 12:18 IhrFussel except* 12:22 shivajiva how many players are registered in the auth file? 12:26 shivajiva if you have 30k of players registered then you are searching 30k of players for privilege validation for 3 players and it's several times a second, continuously whilst they are logged in... 12:27 shivajiva this adds lag despite tables being relatively fast in lua 12:27 Megaf Oh 12:27 Megaf How do we clean the Auth file? 12:27 shivajiva ofc sauth mod makes it reasonable by only caching the players logged in 12:29 shivajiva Megaf you need to compare the entries in auth against player files and remove entries from the auth that didn't make it to the player file stage 12:29 shivajiva and then you can do a time based cull 12:30 Megaf My server sure have several thousands of players registered 12:30 shivajiva or shift to sauth and player db and use a little query to fix the orphaned entries and never suffer auth lag again 12:31 shivajiva skyblocks goes down to 0.1 lag with sauth running, used to be 5 seconds 12:32 shivajiva >200k of entries in the auth file was bogging it down 12:32 shivajiva I haven't even purged the orphans to get that kind of response 12:32 shivajiva :P 12:33 shivajiva also, use sban and stop loading all the banned players into memory 12:34 shivajiva correction, all the players it's ever seen! 12:35 shivajiva xban2 file normally corrupts at around the 6MB size 12:36 shivajiva people use databases when they are available to prevent corruption! 12:38 shivajiva I took the knowledge gained from running a server for 18 months and made 2 mods that fix the biggest issues a server owner faces... 12:40 * shivajiva packs his soapbox up and saunters off 12:44 shivajiva ~950 privilege checks for a player just to get into the game... 12:44 IhrFussel shivajiva, I guess it's time to try sauth 12:44 shivajiva pls ;) 12:46 Jordach shivajiva, check your privilege 12:46 Jordach Kappa 12:46 shivajiva ? 12:46 Jordach being sarcastic about SJWs :^) 12:46 shivajiva lol :P 12:46 IhrFussel I installed lsqlite3 via luarocks and moved sauth-master to worldmods/sauth ... is that all I need? 12:47 shivajiva yes that should be all that is required 12:48 shivajiva if the record set is big it would bbe better to do it locally and copy the db to the server though 12:48 shivajiva >30k of entries forces a dump file you have to import 12:49 shivajiva trivial still but if you don't play with db's it may seem a little daunting 12:49 shivajiva and it will require the installation of sqlite3 for the import 12:49 shivajiva no biggie 12:51 shivajiva if anyone wants me to do the conversion just pm me with a link to the file and I'll process it and link you back 12:51 shivajiva 80MB import takes less than a minute 12:52 shivajiva thank goodness for bulk import statements :) 13:21 IhrFussel shivajiva, sauth just created a new DB with only 1 entry.. I see no import file either 13:26 shivajiva hmm how many entries are in the auth file? 13:27 IhrFussel I have a auth.sql file (7.7 MB) and a sauth.sqlite (4.9 KB) ... the auth.txt has been deleted (by the mod?) but it had ~ 18,000 entries 13:27 shivajiva auth.txt was renamed to auth.txt.bak 13:28 IhrFussel Ok yeah that happened so it's correct? 13:28 shivajiva so it should have imported directly with only 18k of entries 13:28 IhrFussel Well first time I started the server it shutdown itself after 10 secs 13:28 Fixer mt engine: 28 notification, mtg: 0 13:29 shivajiva the sql file is auth.sql, that needs importing fussel 13:30 shivajiva hnce the small db and the large import file 13:30 shivajiva +e 13:30 IhrFussel shivajiva, but the auth.sql already exists and it's several MB so I guess it worked? 13:30 IhrFussel Ohh .sql is the import file? 13:30 shivajiva yea 13:30 shivajiva sauth.sqlite is the db 13:31 IhrFussel Ok what's the command to import it now? 13:31 shivajiva have you installed sqlite3? 13:32 shivajiva once you have the commands are:- 13:32 shivajiva sqlite3 13:33 IhrFussel Yes...so just sqlite3 sauth.sqlite3 < auth.sql ? 13:33 IhrFussel sqlite* 13:33 shivajiva that will suffice, personally I open the db and read the auth.sql 13:34 shivajiva you should delete the sauth.sqlite file first 13:34 shivajiva otherwise you will get a duplicate entry for yourself 13:35 IhrFussel That took 2 seconds...is that right? o.o 13:35 shivajiva how big is the sqlite file now? 13:35 IhrFussel 8.7 MB 13:35 shivajiva perfect :) 13:37 shivajiva only the sban import reduces the data size because of the layout used by xban2 for readable saving 13:39 shivajiva sqlite is pretty fast, that's why I chose it. Tests showed <5ms access time for a record pulled from the db and it's cached after that till the player leaves 13:40 IhrFussel shivajiva, unfortunately that's not the source of the problem but I'll leave it like that anyway...max_lag just jumped to 1.4 secs with me ALONE 13:41 shivajiva okay but loading has an effect that needs time to settle, more importantly will be the lag figure in 5 mins 13:42 shivajiva when the server start event is a distant reflection on the max_lag figure 13:43 shivajiva despite the stated value does it feel more responsive? 13:44 IhrFussel I guess the best way to check is switching privs? 13:47 shivajiva I noticed teleporting around was quicker and obviously I have a gamehub mod running that instantly became more responsive in handling events 13:48 shivajiva sauth runs on Darklands and dropped the lag from 7s down to 1.5s 13:51 shivajiva it runs both sauth and sban though so it recovered about 66MB of lua memory 13:51 shivajiva from the change over 13:54 shivajiva heh your server is heavy on the media 13:54 IhrFussel shivajiva, the lag only goes up when I move quickly on the map...when I idle for a bit the max_lag goes <0.5 14:41 shivajiva IhrFussel: grant invokes core.get_auth_handler().get_auth(grantname) which does use the registered handler so it's not that 14:41 IhrFussel shivajiva, I use minetest.player_exists now is that safe? 14:42 IhrFussel shivajiva, 0.4.16 stable chatcommands.lua uses core.auth_table 14:43 shivajiva player_exists should work fine 14:43 IhrFussel Or maybe not...maybe my chatcommand.lua is older than 0.4.16 14:44 shivajiva yea I'm in 0.4-stable and chatcommands.lua is using core.get_auth_handler().get_auth(grantname) for grant 14:47 shivajiva shows no use of core.auth_table in that file 14:48 IhrFussel minetest.auth_table seems to be very rarely used by mods...only areas used it (changed now) 14:49 shivajiva only other example of it was in the border mod 14:53 shivajiva I'll do some testing but I'm sure I checked /grant, maybe you modified your version? 14:59 shivajiva did you grep for auth_table to see where it's used on your server? 14:59 IhrFussel "maybe my chatcommand.lua is older than 0.4.16" 15:00 IhrFussel I probably didn't use the one from 0.4.16 cause I modified quite a bit in it 15:00 shivajiva yea something isn't quite right about your setup in terms of what's expected at that revision 15:01 rubenwardy it's generally a bad idea to modify default 15:01 shivajiva ^ 15:01 rubenwardy baring in mind it's possible to override chat commands anyway... 15:01 shivajiva ^^ 15:02 rubenwardy minetest.registered_chatcommands["name"].func = function(...) end 15:02 rubenwardy ops 15:02 rubenwardy *modify builtin 15:03 shivajiva were in chatcommands.lua so we both knew what section you were referring to ruben ;) 15:04 rubenwardy :D 15:04 IhrFussel I modified a bit than just the commands...I modified the overall chat message handling since I use an external bot and want its commands to be accepted 15:04 IhrFussel A bit more* 15:04 rubenwardy what does that mean? 15:05 IhrFussel I use a bash bot for my server and want its commands to be valid ingame 15:05 rubenwardy what 15:05 rubenwardy you run bash commands in game? 15:05 shivajiva chat handling is setup so you can terminate or pass forward, that covers your needs for all chat commands 15:05 IhrFussel No the bot runs in the background and listens to the ingame chat log and executes functions based on commands it finds 15:06 rubenwardy what kind of commands? 15:06 rubenwardy this sounds awfully a lot like a remote code execution vulnerability 15:06 shivajiva join/part/level etc 15:07 IhrFussel Lots...it has 150+ commands ... no players cannot just execute code, the bot will add the actual command/program by itself 15:08 IhrFussel Like when a player enters something the bot executes cat something for example or if [[ -f something ]] 15:08 shivajiva what you are doing can be done by intercepting the chat stream and passing it on after you have checked it against your list of commands 15:09 shivajiva unless they alter the behaviour ofc 15:09 IhrFussel Lua is painfully slow to type and lots of the bot commands need to check for file names/contents... that is just easier to write in bash $(cat $file) [[ -f $file ]] etc 15:10 rubenwardy errr... ssh? 15:16 rubenwardy btw, IhrFussel, I saw in the log you're suffering from performance issues. As well installing sauth, I recommend doing the following: 15:16 rubenwardy cd worlds/world 15:16 rubenwardy sudo inotifywait -e modify -e attrib -e move -e create -e delete -m -r . 15:16 rubenwardy it tells you which files are being modified as they happen 15:17 rubenwardy so you can see if it's due to file i/o the server is freezing 15:17 rubenwardy (you can also tell if a server is freezing from the packets on f5 btw) 15:17 rubenwardy but sauth helps a lot for server 15:17 rubenwardy *servers 15:18 rubenwardy oh, you'll need to do sudo apt install inotify-tools or smth 15:52 shivajiva IhrFussel: is your disk HDD or SHD or SSD? 15:53 IhrFussel rubenwardy, with grep -v sqlite it's basically just debug.txt that is modified a lot...there are some other small files here and there every 30-60 secs 15:53 rubenwardy are you using the players sqlite DB? 15:54 rubenwardy I think there's a bug with it 15:54 rubenwardy it was causing massive lockups on my server 15:54 shivajiva :O 15:54 rubenwardy which it shouldn't with 15 players online 15:54 rubenwardy like, updating 15 records shouldn't take very long aha 15:55 rubenwardy I made an issue 15:55 IhrFussel Nope still using files and shivajiva it's a regular HDD ... those lag spikes are not normal... with 3 players spiking to 3+ secs once per minute or so...something is completely wrong there 15:55 rubenwardy would be code to have it independently verified 15:57 shivajiva wonder if we can persuade someone to verify it who has reasonable traffic 16:00 shivajiva trouble I have with this is skyblocks sits at 0.1 lag with 3 players in and for over an hour, it's nothing but a vanilla stable-0.4 with about 30 mods 16:01 rubenwardy my server has been having block loading issues recently, I reckon it's due to some max packet send though 16:01 rubenwardy MT is no where near my max CPU or network 16:02 shivajiva same for Fussel, mt is taking hardly any resources 8% CPU 20% memory and it's still spiking up to 3s 16:03 rubenwardy odd 16:03 rubenwardy what about hard drive usage? 16:03 shivajiva that's why he's obsessed with tracing it 16:03 IhrFussel max_lag 3.6 secs with 11 players 28% load, 13% CPU and 16% RAM 16:03 rubenwardy also, are map blocks read asynchronously? 16:04 shivajiva you'd hope so 16:04 rubenwardy there's emerge threads, so yeah, I'd hope so 16:04 rubenwardy not gone into that area yet 16:05 IhrFussel Is max_packets_per_iteration = 512 maybe too low? 16:07 rubenwardy is that a server cap? 16:07 IhrFussel I set server_unload_unused_data_timeout to 900 in hope that the server would cache mapblocks better 16:07 IhrFussel Nope I just saw that somewhere and applies it 16:08 IhrFussel I guess I will have to create a new test world with all mods and let it run for a bit to see if it still spikes...if no then the map DB is the problem 16:08 shivajiva skyblocks was running with max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 10000 16:12 shivajiva when moving fast as the chunks load it produces a little stutter but nothing that would spoil the game play 16:12 Fixer hmm, what is this youtube insanity with 1280*738? resolution? scales like shit, everything is blurry, wth? 16:12 IhrFussel Or maybe I had the map_save_interval too high? (60) 16:13 shivajiva what's the default for the save interval? 16:14 IhrFussel 15 I think 16:18 IhrFussel Maybe if one sets it too high it writes too many mapblocks at once 16:18 shivajiva that could stack it up as you are potentially writing x4 times slower, with x4 the data to save, wonder if they are done as a series of single transactions 16:19 shivajiva you're just trying to drag me into the core code :P 16:21 IhrFussel I set it to 20...will see if it's better after restart 16:21 shivajiva excellent :) 16:32 Calinou hi 16:34 shivajiva Hi Calinou 18:00 IhrFussel inotifywait shows 20-30 MODIFY map.sqlite at once every few secs...is that normal? 18:06 IhrFussel paramat, sauth requires lsqlite though...do you plan to bundle that? 18:06 rubenwardy yes 18:06 rubenwardy I wonder if you can compile it in 18:06 rubenwardy as a Lua module 18:06 rubenwardy but yeah, it needs to work without Lua rocks or any system hackery 18:07 IhrFussel Yes regarding my question or lsqlite? 18:07 IhrFussel My first question* 18:08 rubenwardy lsqlite 18:08 rubenwardy regarding sqlite, that's not great. It may be part of the libsqlite rather than what we're doing 18:08 rubenwardy ie: async staggered writes 18:10 IhrFussel It also creates map.sqlite-journal a lot ... too many requests? 18:11 rubenwardy same happens with players.sqlite, but suspiciously often 18:13 IhrFussel Here the last 500 or so entries https://pastebin.com/Cvs6ftSn 18:14 IhrFussel Okay more like last 1,900 xP ... I also added the date 18:15 rubenwardy maybe try postgresql? You can always go back 18:15 rubenwardy make sure to keep a backup of the sqlite too 18:16 rubenwardy actually, does the migrate work all ways? Thought it does 18:16 rubenwardy nerzhul would be able to answer :P 18:22 nerzhul use postgresql for a good long term server relational database yes 18:23 IhrFussel Will that reduce the DB reads/writes? Do I need to recompile MT for postgresql? 18:23 rubenwardy I'd to investigate this and do benchmarks at some point 18:24 nerzhul IhrFussel, postgresql will do less write but better write too, and MT doesn't care about those and is faster because it's not done by itself 18:24 rubenwardy my intuition is that a key-value database like LevelDB or Mongo would be better for our inherently non-relational data, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 18:24 nerzhul rubenwardy, postgresql on my machine can go 1M transactions per second, try to do that with sqlite :p 18:24 rubenwardy so I 18:24 nerzhul mongo is shit and we have relational data :) 18:24 rubenwardy maps aren't though 18:24 nerzhul binaryblob is just a field 18:25 rubenwardy it's a key - position hash - and a value - binary blob 18:25 nerzhul do you want to query inside the mapblock ? no ? then nosql is useless 18:25 rubenwardy no relation ships 18:25 nerzhul relation is the primary key: postition 18:25 IhrFussel Does postgresql require a certain compile flag or does it just work when I enter the info into world.mt ? 18:25 rubenwardy IhrFussel, you need to compile with postgresql-dev installed on the system 18:25 rubenwardy no flags 18:25 nerzhul IhrFussel, regular postgresql, just tune shared_buffer value to 512MB or 1GB if you have 2GB ram 18:25 rubenwardy just need to have the header install 18:25 rubenwardy +ed 18:26 nerzhul and use PostgreSQL 9.5 at least, 10 is prefered 18:27 IhrFussel rubenwardy, wait...I install postgresql-dev (name of ppa?) then I compile the engine again with the EXACT same flags as usual and it will just work? 18:28 rubenwardy yes, but you also need to do a migration 18:28 rubenwardy I'm not sure how 18:28 rubenwardy nerzhul will be able to give more detail 18:28 rubenwardy but you'll need postgresql login details somewhere 18:30 IhrFussel Too many packages https://pastebin.com/SdGCFeD1 18:31 rubenwardy ha 18:31 rubenwardy nerzhul? 18:31 rubenwardy :D 18:31 rubenwardy I'm guessing postgresql-9.5-dev, but it'd be nice to have 10 18:32 rubenwardy what that isn't a thing 18:32 rubenwardy heh 18:32 Calinou you can probably get a PPA or something, to get latest PostgreSQL on Linux 18:36 nerzhul there is apt.postgresql.org official repository 18:39 IhrFussel Now there's even more packages https://pastebin.com/WY2dYphU 18:41 Calinou there's a v10 now :) 18:41 IhrFussel But which do I need? server-dev? 18:42 IhrFussel 10 doesn't even have a server-dev 18:47 Calinou IhrFussel: postgresql-server-dev-10 18:47 Calinou it's the other say around :) 18:47 Calinou way* 18:48 IhrFussel Is that the one I need?? 18:48 Calinou IhrFussel: probably :) 18:51 IhrFussel I'm asking #postgresql ... maybe they know 19:00 paramat rubenwardy could this CSM mod be disruptive to servers? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18800 it does say 'kicks you if you are trying that "something" online' but that kick could easily be removed 19:04 Fixer *,,,,,* 19:05 Shara Sounds like a way to spy on contents of containers you are not meant to see into 19:06 sofar he kicks the player if they use it outside of singleplayer mode 19:06 sofar lol 19:06 Shara Yay for CSM? 19:07 sofar even without that kick, this is fairly harmless 19:07 Fixer paramat: is not it is pretty much the same as chest inspector? or worse? 19:07 sofar it's a generic version of chest inspector, yes 19:07 Shara Harmless maybe, but still unwanted as far as I'm concerned 19:08 Shara What if you set up a game wher ea player can select one chest to open for a reward? 19:08 sofar ha 19:08 sofar just make a chest that doesn't store the content in nodemeta 19:09 Shara Shouldn't need to make workarounds like that though 19:09 Shara If chest content was meant to be seen by everyone it should just be visible to everyone 19:09 sofar it essentially is visible to everyone 19:10 sofar you can mark fields in nodemeta as private and then this csm mod is defeated 19:10 sofar that mechanism exists 19:10 Shara The ability to do such things has fewer and fewer barrier though. That's the issue. 19:10 shivajiva +1 for chest contents stored in db only retrievable by the owner 19:12 paramat well see my reply, the kick code can be removed, and this would be fairly useless in singleplayer, plus it's marked as a 'cheat' 19:14 Shara There is clearly no use for it in singleplayer unless you have copied a map from somewhere 19:14 paramat doesn't seem harmless 19:14 Shara Even then, you'd have protection_bypass 19:14 Shara So this would maybe only help with mods having containers that don't respect that, at best 19:15 paramat looks like a server cheat mod carefully created to get around the rules 19:15 Shara Yup 19:16 shivajiva just a thought but shouldn't we be heavily biased towards db storage, not just for the map but everything. Seems there must be some issue with that scenario given we are so far down the line 19:17 IhrFussel Okay I pretty much can confirm now that the ingame lags are caused by the DB... whenever the engine modifies map.sqlite it lags 1-2 secs right now 19:18 shivajiva probably not noticeable on SDD 19:18 shivajiva try levelDb ? 19:18 Shara leveldb didn't help at all on Dark lands 19:19 Shara I'm still pretty sure it made things worse 19:20 shivajiva could you quantify in what way it affected the performance or was it just a further deterioration? 19:21 shivajiva *SSD 19:21 Shara Well, it didn't seem to make anything better 19:21 IhrFussel shivajiva, it didn't always happen...the DB isn't small so maybe that takes longer? 19:22 IhrFussel map.sqlite is 17 GB now 19:22 shivajiva wow 19:22 Shara Fussel, that's comparable to RC in size 19:22 Shara I have an SSD though 19:24 IhrFussel That minetest modifies the DB 20+ times in a row seems very inefficient to me 19:24 shivajiva I'm disadvantaged by skyblocks as it keeps the map size down and for whatever reason leveldb performs better than sqlite. The map db is only 1.8GB 19:25 sofar 17gb map.sqlite... heh 19:25 sofar itb's is 30mb lol 19:25 shivajiva lol 19:25 IhrFussel I will try server_map_save_interval with 120 and see if the lag goes down more 19:25 shivajiva wonder what the access time is on a 17 GB sqlite db 19:26 Shara I think RC is around 16GB now 19:26 sofar longer delays between writes may make things worse 19:26 Shara But RC doesn't really have any real lag issues 19:26 sofar but you may have hit an sqlite scaling problem 19:27 Shara I think DL is around the same size, but using leveldb. I do get some lag spikes there if a lot of people join at the same time sometimes, but since adding sauth it's been pretty good 19:30 IhrFussel time sqlite3 .minetest/worlds/oldserver/map.sqlite "SELECT * from blocks WHERE ROWID='1'" << this query takes 37 ms 19:32 shivajiva as sofar noted, writing is where it may impact the most 19:34 sofar 37ms is probably 30ms for the exec() overhead already, so it's almost negligeable time 19:34 sofar you want to try adding a block and see how long that takes 19:34 IhrFussel sofar, inotifywait displays 20-50 entries within the SAME second though when the server saves the map 19:35 sofar sure, that's to be expected. With a 17gb file it has to touch various journal blocks. 19:35 sofar the larger the map is, the more it has to do that too, I bet 19:36 sofar 20-50 isn't even shocking 19:36 IhrFussel I see lots of journal CREATE MODIFY and DELETE 19:36 sofar yup 19:36 IhrFussel Would that explain 1+ sec lag? Sometimes even 5 secs 19:37 sofar do you have a precise log of those 20-50 entries? with timestamps? 19:37 IhrFussel https://pastebin.com/Cvs6ftSn 19:39 sofar not enough time resolution, I need like millisecond time stamps 19:39 shivajiva can't see from that what if any timeframes there are in between each transaction 19:39 IhrFussel No problem 19:39 IhrFussel One sec 19:42 Calinou map.sqlite is 17 GB now 19:42 Calinou reminds me, weren't there issues with map.sqlite being over 4 GB? 19:44 IhrFussel sofar, https://pastebin.com/xEYUpAF2 19:45 Shara Calinou: Red Cat doesn't seem to mind it. It's been over 4 GB for approaching two years :P 19:47 IhrFussel MODIFY means write correct? 19:48 paramat surely a long server_map_save_interval means that when it does it has a huge amount to do, causing freezes? 19:48 shivajiva MODIFY suggests either update or insert 19:49 shivajiva that was my take on it paramat 19:49 paramat the default is 5.3 so that may be fairly optimal 19:49 paramat 120 is huge 19:50 sofar well it seems to be taking 400+ms in some cases so that's awfully close to 5.3ms (only 1 order off) 19:50 shivajiva the tuned edge is in keeping it low enough to not interfere with the core processes so the data is minimal 19:50 sofar 5.3s 19:51 paramat IhrFussel what's your current save interval? 19:51 paramat or previous 19:52 shivajiva I think he's tried 60/20/120 now 19:52 IhrFussel I will try 5.3 then ... paramat I had it at 60 for 2 months or so...now it's at 20...will try 5.3 after restart 19:53 Shara I recall being told by someone that high was fine, and actually use 60 myself. 19:53 Shara No issues from it. 19:53 Shara So if anyone can confirm it should actually be lower, it would be good to know 19:53 IhrFussel Could server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 900 be the problem? Maybe the longer the server remembers blocks the more it stores per save_interval? 19:54 Shara RC has that much lower, so maybe 19:54 IhrFussel I doubt that it's just the save_interval but we'll see in a minute 19:54 Shara server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 28 here 19:55 Shara But I won't pretend I fully understand these settings 19:55 Shara I think it was Ten who advised me to keep that one low back when I had some problems. 19:56 shivajiva why are these settings not documented? 19:56 Shara This one says: 19:56 Shara # How much the server will wait before unloading unused mapblocks. 19:56 Shara # Higher value is smoother, but will use more RAM. 19:56 Shara So it kind of is 19:56 shivajiva to the depth of how to utilise them 19:57 Shara It would require someone who fully understands them to be willing to write more about them :) 19:58 sfan5 what's so hard to understand about that setting? (honest question) 19:58 shivajiva nothing at all about that one 19:58 Shara sfan5: Boundaries. What would count as too low/too high and so on 19:59 sfan5 hmm right 19:59 shivajiva it's obvious that keeping the block loaded increases the chance of it becoming available if the player turns back or another player enters it 19:59 Shara Yup, but keeping it loading too long can be an issue because then it's a risk of wasted effort 19:59 Shara But knowing what the right balance is can be really difficult 20:00 shivajiva specifically the map save was what I was interested in at this point 20:02 IhrFussel I see no real difference...except the game now shows 20-50 MODIFY entries per 5 seconds 20:02 Shara Hi Mr-Pardison :) 20:03 Mr-Pardison Hello Shara. 20:03 shivajiva 2 years down the line this stuff is a lot more transparent but even so if information can be added to what we have to make it clearer in terms of boundaries as Shara suggested 20:03 IhrFussel I wonder why it even has to store that many mapblocks at once...we are 4 players right now and I doubt that 50 mapblocks have been modified 20:03 Shara It's probably a case of info overload for many people when trying to work out which of all the possible options they need as well. 20:04 shivajiva ^ 20:04 sfan5 IhrFussel: one modify operation != one mapblock write 20:04 paramat set server_unload_unused_data_timeout to the default or close, 900 is huge compared to the default 20:04 IhrFussel default is 300 right? 20:05 paramat not sure, thout it was around 30 20:05 Shara server_unload_unused_data_timeout (Unload unused server data) int 29 20:05 Shara So 29? 20:05 sfan5 300 still sounds pretty high, try something in the range of [90, 120] if you'd like an increased value 20:06 IhrFussel But that likely won't affect the DB problem...I'll try 20:15 IhrFussel It looked like it helped... 3 players @ 0.6 secs max_lag but then I ran a bit and 1.7 secs 20:21 IhrFussel I just added -e access to inotifywait and some accesses take 100 ms 20:24 IhrFussel I'm pretty sure ACCESS time is the problem 20:29 Megaf Folks, #Minetest-Mods is it closed for good or actually just for invited? 20:29 Mr-Pardison invite only. 20:29 Mr-Pardison just checked. 20:30 * Megaf quietly roads at Shara 20:30 Megaf Mr-Pardison: Channel is empty, not even ChanServ is there 20:30 Mr-Pardison huh. 20:30 Megaf I do believe the channel is closed for good 20:31 * Shara wonders if that means a road dropped on her 20:31 Megaf when you join, Chanserv joins and kicks you 20:31 Mr-Pardison yeah. 20:31 Megaf Shara: I eman 20:31 Shara I still don't get why that channel is closed 20:31 * Megaf quietly roars at Shara 20:31 Shara Even if it would not be hugely busy, is there any harm in opening that channel? 20:31 Megaf Shara: Yep, I think that channel should be open and we should be there... 20:32 Mr-Pardison Now that I'm speaking, mind if I bring up this: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/375 ? 20:32 Shara I'm quite happy to talk about mods in here as well, but some people seem to want a dedicated place for it, so it may as well be an official one 20:34 Megaf sfan5: celeron55: Hi gentlemen, a word on Minetest-Mods please? 20:34 sfan5 i'm not involved in that 20:35 sfan5 however i don't see the need for yet another channel to talk about something minetest-related 20:35 Megaf Chanserv says otherwise 20:35 Megaf Information on #minetest-mods: 20:35 Megaf Founder : celeron55, sfan5 20:35 Shara sfan5: we've got people making their own channels for it instead. 20:36 Shara DOes it do any harm if it's not busy? 20:36 sfan5 Megaf: huh good to know that i'm marked as founder of that 20:36 Megaf I'm neutral regarding #Minetest-Mod actually 20:36 Megaf I think it's nice having it, although not a problem not having it 20:37 Shara Like I said - I'm totally happy to talk about mods here, but I don't understand the resistance to letting people use it 20:37 sfan5 there is no need to split the community into even more channels IMO 20:37 sfan5 you can use #minetest for that 20:37 Shara Mr-Pardison: You will probably need to check who maintains technic and ask them 20:38 Shara sfan5: they'll split themselves then. 20:38 sfan5 i haven't heard of anyone wanting a separate place to talk about mods 20:38 Shara check the forum 20:38 Megaf I don't fully get the need for this very channel tho 20:38 Shara wuzzy already made a seperate channel 20:38 Megaf IMHO all we need is #Minetest and #Minetest-OffTopic 20:39 Shara Two devs (if I recall) said reoppening -mods was an option instead, yet it sits there closed 20:39 Megaf I don't even think there's a need for #Minetest-Dev 20:39 Shara Hah 20:39 Megaf Everything regarding Minetest could be spoken at #Minetest and other things in the offtopic channel 20:40 Megaf maybe we need #Minetest-Hub (where admins and mod creators join) -Dev, for Dev and Minetest for off topic? 20:40 Megaf meh, whatever 20:40 Megaf hah 20:41 sfan5 #minetest is for everything minetest related without strict offtopic rules 20:42 Shara sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=18510&p=294799#p294799 20:43 * Megaf do /join #Minetest-Mod-Dev 20:44 Shara Both paramat and rubenwardy mentioned the possibility of reopening the channel 20:45 Megaf #Minetest #Minetest-Dev #Minetest-Mod-Dev #Minetest-Servers #Minetest-OffTopic 20:45 Megaf perfect 20:45 sfan5 Shara: does he detail his reasoning for a separate channel anywhere? 20:45 Shara Don't know, but I've come across others asking for such a channel too 20:45 Shara Some people simple want a dedicated space for things. 20:46 Shara I don't mind so much for myself, but in reality the channel would either not get used much (in which case it does no harm) or it would get used (which means we would have people using an official channel instead of other random ones they made because the team refused to reopen this one) 20:51 Megaf Information on #minetest-servers: 20:51 Megaf Founder : jordach 20:51 Megaf Registered : Jun 03 22:11:44 2012 (5y 23w 2d ago) 20:52 Megaf Jordach ... 20:53 shivajiva I've been in -mod-dev a while and nothing is spoken there so I'm not sure what the purpose is, -hub seems like a good place to chat about many aspects of minetest, keeps the devs informed about perceptions and attempts to be mature in the content and language. 20:56 Megaf I think for our current community size more channels is not really needed, -hub takes care of almost anything not dev related 20:57 Megaf but as our community grows and our project gets more complex, the larger number of specific channel will be welcomed 20:57 IhrFussel From #sqlite "Are you using the INT column in the predicate to read out the BLOB in the access query? If so, have you verified it's indexed?" I told them one column in the B is a BLOB the other an INT (maybe INT was wrong though) 20:58 IhrFussel DB* 21:00 paramat meh wuzzy should use #minetest for modding discussion, it already is mostly that anyway 21:00 Megaf we talk alot about modding here 21:01 sfan5 yes, #minetest is dead enough already, just use that 21:01 paramat plus #minetest is logged which is useful, and is fairly quiet 21:20 paramat it seems that if modding discussion moves to a new unofficial channel, that #minetest would then be dead, despite being an official and logged channel, while the discussion is then at an unofficial unlogged channel. makes no sense, better to consider #minetest the modding channel, which it roughly already is 21:23 Shara Is the purpose for channels (other than -hub) listed anywhere? 21:24 Shara Could fix it if so maybe. 21:26 paramat erm 21:27 paramat https://www.minetest.net/irc/ could be improved 21:28 paramat i think there's more need for an offtopic channel, but that can be unofficial, i hope someone sets this up :] 21:29 * VanessaE peeks in just long enough to spam the channel... https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2640546 (Pipeworks models in 3d printable form :D ) 21:29 sfan5 offtopic is not forbidden in #minetest 21:29 Shara paramat: looks like red-001 has registered -offtopic 21:31 paramat excessive offtopic is, and it has been excessive over the last few months, especially in -hub 21:32 Shara -hub isn't the same as #minetest 21:32 paramat 3D printed MT =) 21:33 paramat yes, but th rues for all IRC channels are "Off-topic is allowed, but excessive use of it is disallowed. 21:33 paramat oops 21:33 paramat *the rules 21:33 paramat rightly so too 21:41 VanessaE enjoy. I'm off.