Time  Nick           Message
00:05 paramat        hi Natechip no need to PM that kind of question :] i don't know
00:06 Natechip       ok
00:06 Natechip       does anyone know if its possible to install minetest 0.5.0 dev on manjaro linux? (Arch based)
00:16 Natechip       ahh I got it thanks to shivajiva
00:16 Natechip       if anyone is wondering: https://linuxpropaganda.wordpress.com/2016/07/24/compile-minetest-dev-from-source-in-manjaro-16-06/
02:40 srifqi         Hey!
03:15 Natechip       hmm
03:15 Natechip       looks like I take back what I said about installing minetest dev 0.5.0
03:15 Natechip       seems like cmake doesnt work correctly
03:15 Natechip       and its missing packages
03:15 Natechip       time to keep looking :D
03:47 Natechip       i did cmake . to compile minetest dev
03:47 Natechip       i cant find the executable
03:47 Natechip       anyone have suggestions
03:57 Natechip       actually
03:57 Natechip       im dumb
03:57 Natechip       i forgot make
05:53 Megaf|Home     Hi all
05:59 Calinou        <Megaf> IhrFussel, dont use Ubuntu
05:59 Calinou        performance between Linux distros is literally the same, with the same software set
06:00 Calinou        it's been tested to death, there is no practical performance difference between distributions, with very rare exceptions which are not daily drivers anyway
06:07 Megaf|Home     negative, Debian is much faster
06:07 Megaf|Home     Debian is among the fastest distros in several benchmarks
06:07 Megaf|Home     in some it's on pair with CoreOS
06:07 Megaf|Home     in a very few even faster
06:08 Megaf|Home     Debian kernel is different from Ubuntus Kernel for instante
06:08 Megaf|Home     instance
06:10 Calinou        it's never been proven that Debian is statistically faster than Ubuntu… especially on a server where the default package set is very similar
06:11 Calinou        also, kernel "optimizations" done by a distro are the smallest of your concerns :)
06:15 Megaf|Home     https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-epyc-bsd&num=2
06:15 Megaf|Home     Calinou, ^
06:15 Megaf|Home     server hardware
06:16 Megaf|Home     s/coreOS/Clear Linux?
06:17 Megaf|Home     Debian 9 is just amazing
06:17 Megaf|Home     Debian 10, the next one, is not doing so well in benchmarks
06:17 Megaf|Home     Debian 10 is as slow as Ubuntu, and Ubuntu is based on Debian testing/sid
06:20 Megaf|Home     !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kXLHLUhV5Q
06:20 ShadowBot      Megaf|Home: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
06:20 Megaf|Home     meh
06:20 Megaf|Home     YouTube: Format Wars: ASCII vs EBCDIC ^
06:21 Calinou        Megaf|Home: yes, I had Clear Linux in mind
06:21 Calinou        truth is, nobody outside of Intel uses it as a daily driver :P
06:21 Megaf|Home     Other truth is, the more you know about software and stuff the less you care about the distro...
06:22 Megaf|Home     you just adapt it to your needs
06:26 Megaf|Home     lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrd8AwO9jI8 <- "Oceanic Airlines: The Airline Designed to Crash" by Not Exactly Normal
06:51 Megaf|Home     cya
06:52 sofar          Calinou: clearlinux has minetestserver packaged :D
06:53 sofar          also, if something breaks, guess who is support and paid to help you
07:08 * sofar        & bed
09:05 shivajiva      !tell Krock upper/lower name match added to sauth
09:05 ShadowBot      shivajiva: O.K.
09:15 shivajiva      Hi sniper, Megaf
09:15 Megaf          Hi shivajiva
09:15 Megaf          Hi alll
09:15 Megaf          Hi Megaf|Home
09:20 sniper338      shivajiva! ಠ‿↼
09:20 Megaf|College  sniper338, I dont have that font
09:20 sniper338      hah 2 bad den... :(
09:21 sniper338      Megaf|College: It's kaomojis btw! ;D
09:22 shivajiva      fyi it was a wink Megaf
09:24 sniper338      :)
09:25 * shivajiva    toys with the idea of PostgreSQL auth handler
09:52 Krock          shivajiva, nice. Maybe 'LIMIT 1' will improve the performance a little further
09:53 Krock          for get_record and check_name, as you only need the first occurrence anyway
09:53 shivajiva      *nods* :)
09:54 Krock          could be applied for almost all queries I can see there
09:55 shivajiva      needs an error check for duplicate records also, first indication something screwed up
09:56 Krock          this will arise the forced-creative-issue again: https://github.com/shivajiva101/sauth/blob/master/init.lua#L163
09:56 Krock          i.e. `or admin and def.give_to_admin then`
09:57 shivajiva      forced-creative-issue?
09:57 Krock          yes. where the server owner can't revoke privileges
09:58 Krock          ...from themselves
09:59 Krock          for reference: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6456
09:59 Krock          hi Fixer
09:59 shivajiva      ah ty
10:00 Fixer          hello
10:01 shivajiva      o/
10:04 Krock          sqlite3 API functions provided by Minetest would be a nice thing. Makes luarocks requirement superfluous
10:05 shivajiva      ^
10:05 Krock          also the secure env
10:05 nerzhul        it can be nice but it permits mod to destroy performance by doing synchronised things
10:05 nerzhul        it should be better to have an async buffer
10:05 shivajiva      ^
10:24 shivajiva      thinking for now I'll add a #6460 branch for def_give_to_admin functionality
10:27 rubenwardy     +1
10:36 shivajiva      ty Krock, very helpful
10:36 shivajiva      Hi ruben
10:37 Krock          np shivajiva
10:37 shivajiva      greetings LazyJ
10:37 LazyJ          Howdy shivajiva ;)
10:38 LazyJ          This looks like something that will be abused to cause trouble on servers:
10:38 LazyJ          https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/basic_robot_csm
10:39 IhrFussel      Megaf, my problem gets even more weird: echo 1 > file takes 10-30ms mostly while echo 1 >> file takes ZERO ms
10:39 LazyJ          WorldEdit had a similar security hole a couple months back.
10:39 shivajiva      yea it's reared up already I believe, heard players complaining about it's use
10:41 shivajiva      hmm maybe I'm mistaken and it was about a robot mod lol
10:44 LazyJ          From  https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18415
10:45 LazyJ          Actually, it is not a robot that can move around (lsuch as basic_robot),
10:45 LazyJ          but a lua-sandbox with an editor-formspec for writing code.
10:45 LazyJ          That editor has 8 tabs for different texts or source-code that can be run.
10:45 LazyJ          Primary usage right now is as a calculator / chat-bot etc.
10:45 LazyJ          but everything lua can do within the client_lua_api is possible.
10:45 LazyJ          An editor-formspec for writing code.
10:45 LazyJ          Can do everything lua can do.
10:46 LazyJ          That's a recipe for trouble.
10:51 Calinou        hi
11:02 shivajiva      Hi Calinou
11:13 Raven262       Hi Calinou, shivajiva.
11:14 Raven262       Hi Fixer, Krock.
11:14 Fixer          IhrFussel: it is silly, what you need is some kind of disk benchmark, not this silliness
11:16 IhrFussel      Fixer, the benchmark looks normal but the problem seems to be the FIRST file write for a specific file since time for i in {1..1000}; do >file; done; seems to take as long as echo 1 > file
11:17 Krock          hi Calinou, Raven262
11:18 Calinou        LazyJ: by the way, since you're around, I reminded myself that I haven't looked at the Misa texture pack for a long time
11:18 Calinou        its author has been away for more than 4 years now (the last official update was in July 2013), however, some people are working on unofficial continuations… on the original forum thread itself
11:19 Calinou        http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/resource-packs/1223248-misas-realistic-texture-pack-updated-1jul13?page=439
11:19 Calinou        unfortunately, Misa released the textures under CC BY-NC 3.0 :(
11:19 Calinou        (and the alternate/Random Mobs textures are under a very strict license)
11:19 Calinou        I wish it was under a free license, but it's never gonna happen since she is 404
11:19 LazyJ          Calinou - Thanks. I kept up with Misa's absence and the attempts to maintain the texture pack.
11:20 LazyJ          Pity, she created a very nice texture pack.
11:20 Calinou        over 6 years ago, I got permission from Misa to port the pack to Minetest anyway :P
11:20 Calinou        but if it was under a free culture license, it could become officially distributed with Minetest
11:21 LazyJ          Not wanting to be hindered by licenses, I finally gave up on Misa's texture pack and made my own.
11:21 LazyJ          No where near close as nice but its mine to do with as I like, at least.
11:23 Calinou        haha, I installed the pack on Minecraft just to see it in 1.12
11:23 Calinou        a Micheal Jackson Thriller zombie is attacking me :'(
11:23 Calinou        (it's one of the randommobs skins)
11:23 LazyJ          Since RBA's passing, looks like texture packs will be the only visual aesthetic that can be improved in Minetest.
11:24 Fixer          i would rather focus on default mtg
11:24 LazyJ          I tried "Conquest" in Minecraft. Nice look but the lack up updates to the texture pack prevented new icons/features in MC 1.12 from displaying.
11:25 LazyJ          So I went back to default.
11:25 LazyJ          OptiFine and a good shader really improves the visual ambiance.
11:26 LazyJ          But... all that is MC. This is an MT channel.
11:26 Fixer          it does, except bloom
11:26 Fixer          fuck bloom
11:26 rubenwardy     language
11:27 rubenwardy     also I think subtile bloom looks okay if you're going for realistic shaders
11:27 rubenwardy     which I want
11:27 LazyJ          Of more concern to me are CSM threats.
11:27 rubenwardy     well, I want realistic weather shaders because rain is beautiful
11:28 Fixer          rubenwardy: it is not subtle, usualy it is cataract emulator
11:28 rubenwardy     the only thing CSM should be able to do is information exposure, ie: finding ores
11:28 Calinou        most people play Minetest on potato PCs
11:28 Calinou        so, adding fancy shader effects is useless because most people won't use them
11:29 Calinou        there are far more important things to focus on, right now
11:29 Calinou        (better GUI/usability)
11:29 rubenwardy     yeah, like a better GUI system
11:29 LazyJ          rubenwardy - scroll up a bit. I posted a couple links to a CSM that allows code to be written in MT.
11:29 LazyJ          Something similar to the problem WorldEdit had a while back.
11:29 Fixer          Calinou: very few use shaders in MC too
11:29 Fixer          Calinou: yet minetest has shaders enables that hits fps pretty hard
11:29 Fixer          enabled*
11:30 LazyJ          Computers will get better to handle fancier graphics.
11:30 Fixer          Calinou: also, you mean potatoPC=craptop? because very soon some kind of i3 with some even budget videocard gives pretty good performance, thats the craptops that are well... ---t
11:31 rubenwardy     chat send really shouldn't be a thing in CSM
11:31 LazyJ          Having a decent shader or two for those with high end PCs or those willing to put up with the slow-down they cause would still be a nice option to have.
11:31 Calinou        Fixer: people playing Minetest rarely use new PCs
11:31 Calinou        often, they're on 6+ years old PCs
11:32 Fixer          Calinou: i have 5 year old pc too, but if you have some descent config, it will be nice even today
11:32 LazyJ          rubenwardy - Automated spamming of chat is one of my concerns.
11:32 Fixer          but yeah, i can feel opportunity for upgrade now
11:33 LazyJ          The other, why would users need to write code on an MT server if the code only affects their client?
11:33 Fixer          corei3 is i5 now and even 200 usd videocard will give you pleeenty of power
11:33 rubenwardy     LazyJ, disable it using flags then
11:34 LazyJ          rubenwardy - What flags? Where's the info on them?
11:35 rubenwardy     LazyJ, it's a setting,    csm_flavour_limits
11:35 rubenwardy     so    csm_flavour_limits = 2   to disable sending of chat
11:36 rubenwardy     this should be added to the setting up a server wiki
11:36 IhrFussel      rubenwardy, was it merged before Jun 4?
11:36 LazyJ          rubenwardy - Ok, thanks for the clues. So the csm_flavour_limits aren't documented anywhere yet?
11:37 rubenwardy     in minetest.conf.example
11:42 LazyJ          rubenwardy - The info in minetest.conf.example says to combine the byteflags. So is that done as a sum or as comma/space separated values? i.e.:  csm_flavour_limit = 14    or csm_flavour_limit = 2 4 8
11:42 rubenwardy     sum
11:42 rubenwardy     documentation is baaaadd
11:42 LazyJ          Ok, thanks.
11:42 rubenwardy     we need someone to review this, really
11:42 rubenwardy     can't believe I didn't review the PR and spot it :/
11:53 rubenwardy     !title https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6527
11:53 ShadowBot      rubenwardy: Formspec replacement · Issue #6527 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
11:54 Krock          that's a duplicate! :P
11:56 rubenwardy     :P
11:56 rubenwardy     apparently renaming an issue confuses people, so named it back and marked as close
11:56 CalebDavis     hi aerozoic
11:56 shivajiva      appreciate it if someone could test sauth #6460 branch and let me know it works, if they have latest dev
11:57 Aerozoic       hey CalebDavis
12:17 shivajiva      o/
12:23 ThomasMonroe   this is very contraversial ik, but i would like to know how much faster than lua python is at transitioning to C++
12:36 jas_           Formspec strings for evarrrr
12:47 shivajiva      they are not so bad once you get used to the format but an api would be great
12:47 rubenwardy     the positioning is the worst bit, and the bugs
12:48 tenplus1       hi folks
12:48 twoelk         o/
12:48 tenplus1       hi twoelk
12:49 shivajiva      welcome tenplus
12:49 tenplus1       hi shiva
12:49 ThomasMonroe   hey tenplus1
12:49 tenplus1       hi Thomas
12:50 tenplus1       Xanadu updated to 0.4.16 standards...  260+ lucky blocks in play
12:51 CalebDavis     hi ten
12:51 twoelk         260+? hopefully not too much media wise
12:52 ThomasMonroe   XD
12:53 tenplus1       hi caleb
12:53 tenplus1       not at all... drops, mobs, troll blocks, traps and custom functions like bush attack etc
12:53 tenplus1       for a mix of available mods thast support it
12:55 shivajiva      rubenwardy: it's just a bit quirky in as much as it's a mental grid of slots with a resolution you choose to work at
12:55 twoelk         I wonder if that could be automated to make it offer any block that is registered ingame
12:56 tenplus1       you could add a lucky block that runs a function to randomly choose a block in-game :)
12:56 tenplus1       anything is possible, the api is very good
12:56 shivajiva      ^
12:57 CalebDavis     ten do you think that it would be possible to add a luckiness value to the blocks meta that controls weather you get good or bad blocks?
12:57 tenplus1       that turns it into minecraft lucky blocks :)
12:57 tenplus1       for minetest it truly luck you have to rely on :D
12:57 CalebDavis     :) true
12:58 shivajiva      and the quality of the randomness
13:00 tenplus1       the more blocks registered the more random it will be :)
13:00 tenplus1       lucky blocks itself has 160 registered inside depending on mods enabled...  my own mods add more to the list
13:01 twoelk         does it take groups in account?
13:01 tenplus1       e.g. https://github.com/tenplus1/lucky_block/blob/master/blocks.lua#L23
13:01 tenplus1       how you mean twoelk ?
13:02 twoelk         like not twice from the same group in series - like wood but different type
13:03 tenplus1       you mean dropping wood, but different wood each time ? that's easily done...
13:04 * twoelk       confesses he never looked at the lucky bblock code
13:04 tenplus1       you could even build different wood houses and have it place a schematic instead of dropping wood :D
13:04 twoelk         cool
13:04 tenplus1       blocks.lua are the main drops for default and each mod, init.lua is the api itself
13:05 tenplus1       custom functions are easily added as well... I have a "Dry Bush Takeover!" that drops all items inside inventory and replaces each slot with 1x dry bush...  no-one likes that one :D
13:05 tenplus1       I do need to add more bad items and traps though...
13:06 * twoelk       would surely look for a exclude_bad_item function :-P
13:07 tenplus1       ???
13:07 shivajiva      simply to make you feel lucky
13:08 shivajiva      twoelk just turned it into a present mod hehe
13:09 twoelk         hehe, how about a troll function like if_player_foo_then_spawn_monster ?
13:09 tenplus1       you could do that using custom mod function...  check player and pos, if specific player then do something... yep
13:11 tenplus1       it even lets you spawn entities and name them :) or change stats...  e.g.   if shivajiva then spawn creeper with explosion radius of 100
13:11 shivajiva      =)
13:12 twoelk         iirc the jt server had a mod were a player could mark another player - now imagine marking a player with monsterluck or such :-D
13:12 tenplus1       yeah, maybe using privs or the like you could mark a player or cure them, if monsterluck all sorts is possible
13:12 CalebDavis     ten is it possible to make the exploding mobs continue their countdown even after they leave the range to the player?
13:13 tenplus1       I based exploding mobs on creepers, if you are far anough away the countdown stops
13:13 tenplus1       but I coudl add a flag to make countdown constant once in range... lemmie check
13:16 twoelk         hmm, I could imagine some sort of minigame where you run around ticking each other and based on the hits the luckyblock is chosen
13:17 tenplus1       should I change "explosion" attacks so that the mob has a countdown that starts within player range and keeps going until boom! ?
13:17 CalebDavis     yes
13:18 twoelk         sounds sensible
13:18 tenplus1       cause you can easily outrun a creeper, so a quick boom would be an advantage
13:18 twoelk         that way you can enjoy the explosion from safety
13:19 tenplus1       will add a timer variable so you can set the number
13:19 CalebDavis     or it stops once the player is out of viewing range
13:19 CalebDavis     and starts when inside attack range
13:19 tenplus1       hrm
13:20 twoelk         starts as in restarts?
13:20 twoelk         8 9 10 boom
13:20 CalebDavis     or starts for the first tome
13:20 tenplus1       so when inside reach it starts timer, and can only be stopped when outside view range...
13:20 tenplus1       then it has to be within reach again to restart timer...
13:20 CalebDavis     right
13:22 * tenplus1     bashes his keyboard
13:22 tenplus1       lets do this
13:23 * ThomasMonroe bashes his keyboard, but regrets it later
13:23 tenplus1       lol
13:25 tenplus1       hi Jordach
13:26 tenplus1       hi neinwhal
13:27 neinwhal       hey tenplus1
13:35 Raven262       Hi tenplus1, neinwhal.
13:35 tenplus1       o/ raven
13:37 neinwhal       hey Raven262
13:38 ThomasMonroe   :O a greeting party!
13:38 ThomasMonroe   hey neinwhal, tenplus1, Raven262, CalebDavis
13:38 CalebDavis     hi tre
13:39 Raven262       Hi ThomasMonroe
13:40 neinwhal       hey ThomasMonroe
13:42 lisac          hey tenplus1
13:48 lisac          hey ThomasMonroe
13:48 ThomasMonroe   hey lisac
13:48 ThomasMonroe   see!! it is a greeting party XD
13:48 tenplus1       ehehe
13:56 jas_           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFiyA12mPq4
13:58 tenplus1       Mobs Redo API updated, 'explosion_timer' added, mobs countdown until out of view range and start again once inside mob reach
14:00 CalebDavis     :)
14:00 CalebDavis     thx ten
14:01 tenplus1       works pretty well with creepers :) they chase and continue countdown until out of range
14:02 tenplus1       was gonna add a countdown timer above mob, but that would lead to a LOT of trolling
14:02 CalebDavis     XD yea probly
14:12 tenplus1       Kitty is dreaming it's in RiverDance: http://lolsnaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/59dfe295dba6f_7b19af55a8c28f1e106cbdf29c8b7a75.mp4
14:27 Krock          https://i.imgur.com/kJXImYU.jpg
14:30 tenplus1       lol
14:30 jas_           nice cat vid
14:30 jas_           hypnotic : )
14:30 Wayward_One    hi all :)
14:32 tenplus1       hi wayward
14:50 tenplus1       hi CWz
14:51 CWz            Oh hay, might want to work on the spiders attack animation it jittery
14:51 tenplus1       all help is welcome :D
15:11 tenplus1       hi red
15:27 red-001        tenplus1, I guess I lost connection?
15:27 tenplus1       oops
16:26 Megaf|Home     Hi all
16:27 tenplus1       hi Megaf
16:32 tenplus1       o/ Jordach
16:41 tenplus1       hi paramat
16:43 paramat        hi, is anyone here able to resize a player model in blender? and is keen on this idea https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1411#issuecomment-324940867 ? we already have a re-proportioned model made by stujones11 but it needs a simple rescale
16:55 sofar          this is why I ended up making an entirely new model with proportional pixels...
17:01 paramat        nice
17:04 sofar          of course, I made the mistake of scaling it
17:05 sofar          I should have really aimed for a model height with 100% proportional pixels
17:16 paramat        ok looks like stujones11 is around now so we'll work on this
17:18 Jordach_       paramat, i built a model containing support for 64x32, 64x64 and a bonus 64x32 armour layer
17:36 paramat        yes, but what to do with MT format is still controversial, does your model fix the body/limb stretch?
17:37 Shara          Hello all
17:37 tenplus1       o/ Shara
17:38 Shara          Hi Ten :)
17:39 Shara          When it comes to models, it would just be nice to have a default skin that is less obviously male.
17:42 tenplus1       wait, did you just assume Sam's gender ?
17:43 Shara          Sam look male.
17:43 tenplus1       :P
17:43 Shara          looks*
17:43 Krock          Sam looks male because he is male
17:43 Shara          That.
17:43 Krock          "There's no girls on the internet"
17:43 Fixer          white priveleged male (c)(tm)(r)
17:44 Shara          Heh.
17:45 paramat        Sam is 'supposed' to be unisex
17:45 Shara          paramat: there's a key word in there :)
17:46 tenplus1       sam looks unisex... not obviously male or female...
17:46 Krock          let's colourize sam with rainbow colors
17:46 tenplus1       unlike steve on mc with facial hair
17:46 Fixer          yeah
17:46 sofar          just give sam a crotch bulge and be done with it
17:46 Fixer          heavy drinker
17:46 Shara          Hah.
17:47 Fixer          just use that thing they put on their head
17:47 Fixer          forgot how it is called in english
17:47 tenplus1       https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vUB9EIkPchOdEWyb4ZMNfdKMQXxI1wBchB6IJPcfsm-ximLb3JKFW2Erxhejxkv1ofBBrVKYDKwyDzIHU1ET1Q=s400
17:47 Krock          sofar, well, that makes it at least clear but doesn't solve the problem
17:47 Fixer          https://www.firestock.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Dollarphotoclub_65200405-700x503.jpg
17:47 Fixer          ^
17:47 tenplus1       heh
17:48 tenplus1       http://www.minecraftskins.com/skin/11143343/gender-neutral/
17:48 Krock          Fixer, already exists. http://minetest.fensta.bplaced.net/#name=Bag%20dude
17:48 Fixer          yeah
17:50 tenplus1       wb thomas
17:51 ThomasMonroe   thx
17:51 sofar          can I just say, I really dislike gender neutral skins
17:52 tenplus1       lolol
17:52 IhrFussel      I measured the file write times now with minetest.get_us_time() and it's weird how ONLY the first file write in a loop takes so long: 1st file write 10-30ms, the others takes < 1 ms
17:52 paramat        anyway, i agree, i feel the face needs to be cuter, and the hair could be more floppy, messy and shoulder-length
17:52 sofar          I mean, I say this as a guy who refuses to choose female avatars
17:53 paramat        .. but doesn't have to be deliberately 'gender neutral'
17:53 Fixer          IhrFussel: caching
17:54 sofar          the thing is, there's no such thing as a "gender neutral" shopping department
17:54 sofar          (not saying there shouldn't)
17:54 sofar          but, correct me if I'm wrong here, my observation is that women who don't want to dress stereotypically female just end up wearing comfortable male clothing
17:55 sofar          and vice versa, too
17:55 IhrFussel      Fixer, so the OS caches the other files within the loop but as soon as the loop ends frees that cache again?
17:55 rubenwardy     I like the idea of a character builder
17:55 Fixer          no idea
17:55 Fixer          yeah
17:56 Fixer          i remember it in Operation Flashpoint from like 201
17:56 Fixer          year 2001
17:56 Fixer          you can choose face, gender, voice
18:01 tenplus1       solar plains has a character builder
18:02 sofar          on insidethebox I ended up choosing 6 skins and only 2 of them are obviously male or female, the rest are somewhat hard to recognize
18:02 sofar          but yes, character creators are interesting
18:03 sofar          too bad the one in minetest-mods takes it too far (it modifies the model too much and the textures are all over the place)
18:03 Shara          6 is a nice number for skins in a basic game I think
18:04 Shara          It's enough to give options without being excessive
18:04 tenplus1       yeah. how nice would it be to have a skin selector in default :D
18:04 sofar          plus you can show them in a single sfinv tab easily
18:04 sofar          so it's easily integrated
18:04 tenplus1       *cough* simple skins... eheheheheh
18:06 Shara          tenplus1: I really like simple_skins, but I don't like the skins in uses
18:06 Shara          it*
18:06 tenplus1       heh, it's the 16 base skins from zeg'z skin mod and a random selection to make it to 31
18:06 tenplus1       only 24kb in total :D
18:06 rubenwardy     I'd prefer a character creator, it's better game design imo
18:06 Shara          rubenwardy: it would really depend on how it was done
18:06 rubenwardy     selecting a skin like that is like selecting a character to play, too many and it's strange
18:07 rubenwardy     however the problem with a character creator is variety
18:07 rubenwardy     ideally you could cleanly mix them
18:08 rubenwardy     so you could have outfits which are complete skins along side the normal character builder
18:08 Fixer          character builder will be nice
18:08 paramat        good point actually, how about we add a few optional skins to MTGame? also, let's keep this simple, we could make such that the skins selected from are easily added by the user using a texture pack
18:09 paramat        *make it such
18:09 Shara          paramat: yes, even that much would be really nice
18:09 lisac          would be fun to have dbus in Minetest
18:09 lisac          so that we can check what server we are on
18:10 lisac          would allow for awesome now playing scripts
18:10 tenplus1       o/ lisac
18:10 lisac          hey tenplus1 :)
18:10 paramat        hm but then, do we mean per-player skins or just selecting 1 default for all?
18:10 paramat        no, per-player skins are provided by players
18:12 tenplus1       it's own default mod would be handy for adding an sfinv tab and storing selected skin inside player attributes
18:12 tenplus1       that defaults every other skin mod to using it if possible :)
18:13 Shara          paramat: you need to let the player pick
18:14 Fixer          i would rather want something like few base models, with changing of everything, colours, pants, shirt, whatever (presets)
18:14 paramat        it seems to me that support for per-player player-provided skins should be in MTG, just done in a simple way. however, we can still redesign the fallback texture
18:15 tenplus1       how about a default skin wearing nothing but shorts/tshirt and a separate clothing mod :)
18:15 tenplus1       hi zorman
18:15 paramat        complex character designers can be optional mods, this is MTG
18:17 rubenwardy     :'(
18:18 Shara          paramat: not player provided skins
18:18 zorman2000     Hi tenplus1
18:18 Shara          Just give them a couple of basic choices
18:18 Shara          If you let players add their own skins, well... think about what you might get :)
18:19 rubenwardy     -1 to player provided skins. Instead it should be a web interface and the ability to add new skins at run time
18:20 paramat        well i mean, not automatic player provided, just make it easy for a server admin to take moderated skins anf manually place them into a folder for per-player use
18:20 paramat        *and
18:21 tenplus1       yeah, simple_skins are numbered... character_1 to _999 and it scrolls through numbers to create list
18:21 tenplus1       very easy to add
18:21 paramat        players will want to provide their own skins to the server admin surely? or is that rare?
18:21 zorman2000     My opinion is that there should be a default male and default female skin
18:22 Fixer          this is Spart...MTG!!1111111111
18:22 Shara          paramat: Fairly rare
18:22 tenplus1       I get requests all the time to add persdonal skins if they dont like the defaults provided
18:22 tenplus1       and a /setskin command to set a private skin for that plyer
18:22 Shara          Kind of depends on admining approach though (Ten's a softy for adding skins :P)
18:22 tenplus1       ehehe, but I do optimize the skins provided so they are tiny
18:23 paramat        if you have per-player selected from a choice then some players will be identical, but maybe this is not an issue
18:23 Shara          I think Dark Lands has added five custom skins ever in hmm.. just short of a year
18:24 Shara          paramat: it's not about them being able to be unique, just about them being able to play as the gender and maybe skin colour they are happy with
18:24 Shara          Also, female character doesn't have to mean cute or wearing a skirt
18:24 paramat        ok i assumed all players would insist on having a skin they designed, but apparently not
18:25 tenplus1       server owners can always provide a default SET to begin with
18:25 sofar          my bet is that player-provided skins would be a new low in artistic design
18:25 Shara          sofar: Oh yes.
18:25 paramat        hehe
18:25 rubenwardy     a character creator would allow a high level of customisation ;)
18:25 Shara          That + sometimes wonderfully inappropriate
18:26 rubenwardy     although at a high initial art cost
18:26 Shara          I've yet to find a clothing type mod that I actually liked, since in the end they just come down to different colours but all look the same
18:27 paramat        ok. a simple skins mod where each player can choose from a admin-chosen selection seems good, and the selection could always be expanded to include any acceptable player-designed skins, so that covers that possibility too
18:27 Shara          rubenwardy: how would you approach a character creator?
18:28 paramat        i assume 'simple skins' does that
18:28 tenplus1       yes paramat...  it counts how many skins are in the folder and as soon as it finds a gap (file not exist) it draws a line
18:28 tenplus1       any personal./custom player skins start at _900  to keep them separate so they dont appear on the list
18:28 zorman2000     +1 for character creator
18:28 rubenwardy     colorizable skin base + mask to make naked player + articles of clothing, various sizes
18:28 zorman2000     Even if simple
18:29 Shara          Just skin or model changes though?
18:29 rubenwardy     it's worth making it first though as a mod
18:29 rubenwardy     no model changes, can simple skins do that?
18:29 paramat        naked players!
18:29 Shara          It's just that once model changes are involved it all gets a bit... ikky somehow
18:29 Shara          No, it just does skins
18:29 sofar          basic clothing... not naked
18:29 rubenwardy     naked + underwear
18:29 sofar          e.g. simple shirt and shorts, barefeet
18:30 rubenwardy     and vest
18:30 Shara          With hearts? :)
18:30 sofar          sailor tattoo with swearing, too
18:30 sofar          'MOM'
18:30 sofar          tramp stamp on the rear
18:30 rubenwardy     the problem is what if you want gabs in clothing? Say swimming custome
18:30 sofar          wait what?
18:30 rubenwardy     it would be better to enforce a minimum number of items to be selected
18:30 zorman2000     Yes, simple clothing
18:30 rubenwardy     and have no detail
18:31 tenplus1       leave the detail to the clothing layers/armor etc
18:31 Shara          Yes.. default to shorts and tshirt, and instead of being able to remove those, you can just switch them
18:31 tenplus1       with base skin selection from male/female
18:32 Krock          well, texture overlays can be done
18:32 rubenwardy     player_apis mod could have the ability to allow multiple skin mods by storing the skin mod name that a player uses in attributes, and calling the mod
18:33 Fixer          'DAD'
18:34 rubenwardy     like this: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/bbf137bcbdfe5442dc5d0747704e34c0
18:34 paramat        note that once you have to split the texture into head, upper body, trousers/skirt then you lose the ability to have hair pixels on the upper body (essential for long hair), untucked shirt pixels on the trousers etc. these overlaps are essential for good skins
18:35 paramat        clothing choices tend to overwhelm when a selection of complete skins is just as satisfying, and simpler
18:36 rubenwardy     I'd argue that 100 pages of skins is more overwhelming then a selection of boxes to choose items to add
18:36 tenplus1       texture layering... base texture, clothing1, clothing 2.... 5
18:36 twoelk         clothing would be cool for themed subgames
18:37 Krock          didn't jordach have a skin creator mod somewhere?
18:37 paramat        as a player i would prefer a large choice to a designer. pre-designed complete skins look better, consistent, with overlapping sections
18:37 twoelk         he did have the player choose gender on gamestart
18:39 paramat        not 100 pages though, the choice can also be hosted on a MT internet page to browse through
18:41 paramat        hm i guess the overlaps could be supported by allowing head pixels to extend over the body texture
18:41 twoelk         paramat, I guess it depends on the player. I know quite a few who spend a lot of time choosing their looks in games such as GTA , WoW or 2ndlife
18:42 twoelk         if avaliable character creation will be used
18:44 rubenwardy     paramat, I'd do it in layers so any part can be anywhere on the skin
18:44 rubenwardy     it's just which layer you draw at
18:45 paramat        ok
18:45 LazyJ          Skins - gender, race, age, animal costumes.
18:45 rubenwardy     it needs a lot of work, so a simpler skin selector would be better for now
18:46 paramat        yes
18:46 LazyJ          Sokomine once told me that she didn't like the female skins because she isn't a little girl.
18:47 Krock          Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
18:47 paramat        they're stylised to be cute, they're not little girls
18:48 Fixer          layers are cool
18:48 LazyJ          What about a skin that is more like a space suit or costume were there is nothing to indicate gender, race, or age for the default skin. Gender, race, age, skins could be later applied by a mod.
18:48 Fixer          LazyJ: little in what sense?
18:49 LazyJ          Fixer - don't go there.
18:51 Shara          Seems I share Sokomine's feelings.
18:51 LazyJ          Having a base set of default skins would mean that all servers would likely have that same base set so players could use the same skin no matter which server they played on.
18:53 LazyJ          Most player created -from-scratch skins have been of poor quality on my server through the years.
18:53 LazyJ          However, there have been a few that started with an MC skin and customized it to there personality with some success.
18:54 LazyJ          *to their personality...
18:57 paramat        now i think about it, it's embarassing how we still have only 1 skin by default in MTG, i see a simple skin mod as essential for 0.5.0
18:57 LazyJ          Base set of skins - could be altered by the server-op or staff to suit the theme of the server. Medieval, moon base, or whatever theme suits the premise of the server.
18:58 Shara          paramat: yes please
18:58 Fixer          paramat: and one kind of tree
18:58 Shara          But please make sure the default choices are a decent set with balanced options
18:58 tenplus1       tree ??
18:58 LazyJ          So long as custom skins are still allowed to be assigned to individual players.
18:58 tenplus1       yes, a base set of male/female/colour options
18:59 LazyJ          Ohhh... we forgot about hair color. >:)
18:59 Shara          And please have some female ones that aren't wearing miniskirts :)
18:59 LazyJ          And the lack of hair for some of us. :)-
19:00 shivajiva      lol
19:02 Fixer          tenplus1: lets rephrase it, say apple it, there is only one kind of it, I would like more shapes of it
19:02 tenplus1       so different schems available for current tree's
19:03 sofar          in my insidethebox skin set, at first login a random skin is chosen for the player
19:03 paramat        yes random schem selection is needed first
19:03 tenplus1       yes, +100 for that one paramat...
19:06 paramat        i'll download 'simple skins' mod and try it
19:06 tenplus1       works with sfinv and inventory plus
19:07 paramat        obviously we'll need to add more skins and assess the variety
19:08 Shara          simple_skins works nicely, but the skins it comes with are poor (in my opinion)
19:08 paramat        Shara perhaps you can help us with the choice
19:08 Shara          Would be happy to
19:09 Shara          Anything we use should all have the same detail level/style
19:09 Shara          And since Sam should be one, they should be matched to that
19:09 paramat        would it be possible for this mod to show a simple preview image (front view) before selection?
19:10 Shara          That's something I would like it to do as well
19:10 tenplus1       that means you gotta add preview images adding to the size of the skins, and needing to edit previews
19:10 tenplus1       that's why I removed it...
19:10 paramat        as actually changing the skin to preview one loads the server
19:11 paramat        hm
19:11 paramat        of course, we would need a program to autocreate a preview front view
19:11 tenplus1       when using inv+ you could press F7 to view player and select skin by modelling it
19:11 paramat        otherwise it's some work in Gimp
19:12 tenplus1       *shudder*
19:15 paramat        nevermind, not essential at first
19:16 tenplus1       the skin meta (name, author) should be more than enough
19:20 Calinou        evening :)
19:21 tenplus1       hi Cal
19:21 Raven262       Hi Calinou
19:23 sofar          you could show a player model entity and skin that
19:23 tenplus1       would be great if it were possible to show entities inside formspec
19:23 lisac          hey Calinou
19:23 lisac          Calinou, I don't know if you know, but is Unknown Horizons still alive?
19:33 paramat        looked at all the skins in the mod, fun, the selection does need changing and expending though
19:34 tenplus1       :P
19:36 paramat        can the formspec be on one side of the screen to not block seeing the player?
19:37 paramat        .. when using F7
19:37 tenplus1       ivnentory plus, yes... it's already transparent, but on sfinv you'd have to redo formspec and add tabs manually to do taht
19:38 paramat        so engine changes if not using inv+?
19:39 paramat        or can the formspec be repositioned in lua in the mod?
19:39 Shara          Getting something to work with all three commonly used inventories is fun :)
19:39 paramat        having to exit the menu each time to see the skin is a pain
19:40 paramat        otherwise this seems fine
19:40 paramat        maybe add a line of description to the meta
19:44 Sokomine       LazyJ: that's right. the female skins usually just don't fit
19:44 tenplus1       hi Sokomine
19:45 Sokomine       paramat: hmm. male skins usually aren't trimmed for "cute". why are female skins? i don't think that's good
19:47 Shara          Hi Sokomine
19:47 Calinou        lisac: I never played it, no idea
19:47 Shara          Same thought really.
19:47 paramat        when i make a male skin i make it cute
19:47 Calinou        the answer is probably "no", judging open source games today :|
19:47 Shara          Sam isn't cute.
19:47 * Shara        waits for someone to disagree
19:48 tenplus1       lol
19:48 paramat        i had assumed that female skins were mostly made by females, and they make them cute by choice
19:48 paramat        sam isn't cute indeed
19:48 paramat        i don't like the default skin at all
19:49 Shara          paramat: uhhmmmm
19:50 paramat        note i have very little experience of servers and skins
19:50 Sokomine       sofar: a player model showing the skin sounds like a good idea. that'll help those players on mobile phones who can't find the f7 key equivalent
19:52 Sokomine       paramat: i'm afraid it's rather the opposite. the female skins look more like done by males in the way they think females ought to be...at least that's the impression i got. it might not be intentional
19:52 Shara          Yup.
19:52 Sokomine       the default skin is usually ok...at least it doesn't have the problems of most female skins
19:52 Shara          Certainly my impression as well.
19:53 Shara          I join a server, and even if they have lots of skins, finding a female skin that just looks like a normal person can be tough.
19:53 paramat        ah ok
19:54 LazyJ          Two female candidate designers for the new batch of female MT skins - Sokomine and Shara.
19:54 tenplus1       there's a few female skins in simple skins that look normal, nothing fancy or too girly
19:54 paramat        lack of variety and stereotyping i guess
19:54 * LazyJ        goes back to his box of donuts.
19:54 tenplus1       o.O
19:54 Sokomine       uff :-) i'm incapable of creating good textures. let alone skins :-)
19:54 Shara          tenplus1: I don't think they have the right style though
19:55 Shara          I've only ever worked on one MT skin, but I used another as a template
19:55 LazyJ          VanessaE could also consult.
19:55 Shara          This one: http://gingercat.tk/mt/character_999.png
19:56 tenplus1       :P
19:56 LazyJ          As mentioned earlier, the current female skins look like they were designed by guys and what they think would appeal the females.
19:56 Shara          No miniskirt in sight!
19:56 Calinou        <Shara> Sam isn't cute.
19:56 Calinou        0/10, wouldn't be gay for Sam
19:56 paramat        tenplus1 so can the simple skins sfinv formspec be repositioned in lua code in the mod?
19:57 * Calinou      hides from the "Sam is genderless" comments
19:57 Sokomine       that's right. vanessae has a nice skin. it's just that it's hers - taking it on another server would feel like stealing her identity
19:57 tenplus1       paramat: you can rewrite the formspec to offset it and make it transparent
19:57 LazyJ          Sooo... good artist or not, the ladies will have to start the first batch of female approved female skins.
19:57 Shara          Calinou:  :P
19:57 VanessaE       it's only "mine" because I was the first among MT users to use it.
19:57 VanessaE       I didn't design it.
19:57 tenplus1       hi Vanessa
19:57 VanessaE       it was something I got off of skindex I think.
19:57 VanessaE       hi.
19:58 Shara          Hi VanessaE
19:58 Calinou        LazyJ: yeah, 90% of the female skins I see are in miniskirts, with flowers in their hair or something
19:58 Sokomine       but you wear it all the time :-) so it's yours
19:58 paramat        Shara that's a nice skin
19:58 LazyJ          I didn't even have to chant her name three times and VanessaE appeared. :0)-
19:58 tenplus1       wb Krock
19:58 Fixer          in theory we should have look options on left and 3d model on the right
19:58 Krock          ty tenplus1
19:58 Calinou        left-handed option would be nice, too
19:58 Calinou        Minecraft now has that :P
19:58 Krock          we had an issue for that too
19:59 tenplus1       offsetting formspecs would be a good option instead of centreing every time
19:59 Shara          paramat: sadly lost the original I used as a base
19:59 paramat        tenplus1 ok so perhaps do that in your mod?
19:59 Sokomine       Calinou: sounds rather like a general way of presenting skin options. other games have that as well afaik
19:59 Shara          But i just wanted something that didn't show lots of skin on my skin really.
19:59 tenplus1       will look into that when I get time
19:59 Calinou        https://media.hugo.pro/Calinou-minetest.png
19:59 Shara          And cat with red hair because... Red Cat
19:59 Calinou        this is my Minetest skin since 2014 :P
19:59 Calinou        Shara: your skin looks nice, by the way :)
20:00 VanessaE       LazyJ: well it's not like I'm Beetlejuice or something :P
20:00 Calinou        as you can see, I'm not a pixel artist at heart, it's just a recolor of the default skin
20:00 LazyJ          There is an old MC skin editor that runs on java and it produces 64x32, MT compatible skins.
20:00 Calinou        my Minecraft skin is a tad more elaborate, https://media.hugo.pro/Calinou-minecraft.png
20:00 Calinou        look at that aureola!
20:00 Fixer          Calinou: wat?
20:00 Calinou        I swear it makes me look 20% more honest
20:00 tenplus1       nite all o/
20:00 Fixer          Calinou: firefox blurs it
20:00 Fixer          \o
20:01 Calinou        Fixer: yeah, browsers always blur pixel art when zoomed in
20:01 LazyJ          Could something like that editor be re-written and bundled with the MT engine like the scripts in /util?
20:01 Calinou        this can be solved by integrating an image with a web page, and adding a CSS property
20:01 Fixer          now that you mentioned java, i need to update my WADS
20:01 Calinou        LazyJ: "write programs that do one thing and do it well", I'd argue
20:02 Calinou        we don't have the resources to maintain a skin editor
20:02 LazyJ          I know folks here are java-averse, but it would take someone familiar enough with java to re-do in python or lua or whatever.
20:02 Sokomine       oh. er. started a local game, looked at me...i'm a colored square?
20:04 LazyJ          Calinou (and audience) - MT skins haven't changed much over the years, have they? How much maintenance would an MT skin editor require over the years given the current rate of development in that area?
20:04 Sokomine       afaik there's a skin selector that offers diffrent..overlays. choose shirt, trouser, hair style, .. ingame. that system of composing a texture out of components is used for one of the villagers mods as well. the idea is very good. it might just need more polished textures?
20:04 Calinou        I believe dedicated image editors like GIMP do the job well for Minetest/Minecraft skins
20:04 Calinou        or Aseprite, but it's no longer open source :(
20:05 sofar          Sokomine: Shara: can I ask you two for feedback on the skins that I have on insidethebox?
20:05 Calinou        problem is, if you write your own image editor, it will suck until you add a ton of features to it
20:05 sofar          or anyone else, for that matter
20:05 LazyJ          What GIMP and other editors lack is the body component layout template in the background.
20:05 Calinou        Sokomine: I prefer component systems as well
20:05 Sokomine       sofar: of course! provided the skins can be viewed (i don't enable javascript). trying them ingame might also help
20:05 Shara          sofar: sure. Got  ascreenshot to hand or do I need to join?
20:05 sofar          log in, press <inventory> and you see them all
20:05 Calinou        choose a base hair/shirt/pants/shoes color, then add some things like a cap
20:05 Calinou        it can do a lot of things already
20:06 Calinou        I mean, we've lived with 16² color combinations in Quake… :D
20:06 * Calinou      hides
20:06 sofar          just in-game is easiest, I'd have to find the hashes on my media server otherwise
20:06 * Shara        plays the "guess my own password" game
20:06 Sokomine       sofar: which server?
20:06 sofar          Inside the Box
20:06 sofar          (it's announced, just search for 'puzzle' or something in the server list)
20:06 Sokomine       calinou: yes, that's a good system. it just needs better styled components. creating such textures is an art by itshelf (and beyound my means)
20:07 Shara          Hmm, sofar, actually not bad at all
20:07 Shara          Though Jane looks kind of like a guy to me
20:07 sofar          is that the blond one?
20:07 Shara          Yea
20:08 CWz            can't belive it my server became one of the big ones
20:08 sofar          yes, that one is quite in the middle
20:08 sofar          could be both a guy or a girl
20:08 CWz            Tell where did i go so wrong!
20:08 paramat        hm i should clarify my use of 'cute', by that i mean cartoony, anime-stylised, i don't mean stereotyped sexualised
20:08 CWz            a girl and a guy would make a gurl
20:09 sofar          guy in real life?
20:09 CWz            or a giy
20:09 paramat        so i find Shara'a skin 'cute', no offence
20:10 sofar          I'm afk teaching chess to 12 year olds, see you all later
20:10 CWz            chess isn't for kids
20:10 Calinou        nice :P
20:10 Calinou        I started playing ches seriously when I was 12, CWz
20:10 Calinou        chess*
20:11 sofar          chess is a great way for kids to learn certain skills
20:11 sofar          anyway, I need to run
20:11 Shara          paramat: no offence taken. I really only went with cat theme since it fits the server I run
20:12 CWz            I never had a mind for chess
20:12 Shara          The Jear skin onf sofar's server is probably more like what I'd pick otherwise
20:12 Shara          on*
20:15 Calinou        CWz: I'm not great at chess, probably around average skill
20:15 Calinou        (if not lower, as I prefer faster games)
20:15 Calinou        I don't play often lately, https://lichess.org/@/Calinou
20:15 Calinou        and my rating is meh
20:15 Calinou        (it's below average)
20:17 Sokomine       the jane and jean styles both look acceptable. they match the style of most of their male counterparts. that's good
20:25 Calinou        https://lichess.org/bovNDGZi/white
20:25 Calinou        wow, I must be a true professional
20:25 Calinou        my professionalism didn't give me any rating points, though
20:33 paramat        \O/ new core dev
20:53 Fixer          WHERE?
20:53 Fixer          is it MTG DEV?
20:54 red-001        Fixer, core dev
20:54 red-001        lhofhansl
20:54 Fixer          niice
20:54 benrob0329     🤔
20:55 Shara          Ohhh, nice.
20:55 Shara          He seems to do good things.
20:56 Shara          Did anyone invite him here yet?
20:56 red-001        dunno
21:03 Calinou        <Fixer> is it MTG DEV?
21:03 Calinou        after complaints due to the lack of RPG elements in Minetest, it has been announced that Magic The Gathering will replace minetest_game
21:03 Calinou        this will make it more profitable, too
21:04 red-001        I for one welcome our new magic the gathering overlords
21:12 Fixer          Calinou: heck, give me TOOLS IN HAAAANDS
21:12 Fixer          RENDERING
21:12 Fixer          without spacing
21:14 Fixer          make modpacks great again
21:16 Fixer          wtf this disk io is soooo slow, hdd performance is not that bad in benchmark, yet it feels worse than in 90s
21:19 Fixer          daaamn, firefox - 2.2gb of ram usage, not acceptable, what is this?
21:19 Fixer          i had few active pages
21:20 Fixer          MOM.exe in tasklist
21:29 benrob0329     Fixer: ChromiumMasterRace
21:32 Sokomine       shara: guess jane could be used for both genders
21:32 Sokomine       oh. a new core dev? fine :-) can't have enough of them :-)
21:33 Sokomine       much work to do
21:33 * benrob0329   sent a long message: benrob0329_2017-10-13_21:33:57.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/XMqamCVAZPMRVPTrJoNMrTpT>
21:35 Krock          very long message, indeed.
21:36 Krock          just that the message with the link to the original message is longer than the actual message
21:37 Krock          benrob0329, can "Fred" be a gender neutral name?
21:38 Calinou        https://media.hugo.pro/Hyper_2017-10-13_23-36-56.png
21:38 Calinou        :D
21:38 Calinou        professional's terminal setup
21:39 Fixer          le professional
21:39 benrob0329     Krock: Fred is a classic joke name for when someone has a long name (Doctor Who reference)
21:41 benrob0329     Calinou: professional? Seems too cluttered to me, I like clean workspaces, so I usually spread across a few
21:42 benrob0329     But I would hardly call what I do "professional" so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:42 Fixer          i need to get my satisfaction of minetest_game
21:42 Calinou        benrob0329: it's sarcasm :P
21:43 Calinou        look at the text editor at the bottom-right corner, it's unusably small
21:43 Calinou        I just spammed the "split terminal horizontally/vertically" keys to get that terminalception
21:43 Calinou        look at how the htop is huge in comparison, too :P
21:43 Fixer          even win95 can do that
21:43 benrob0329     Calinou: oh yeah, didn't even notice that
21:44 Krock          benrob0329, from the old series? I don't remember this being a thing in the new ones
21:44 benrob0329     Why tile your terminal, when that's the WMs job?
21:44 benrob0329     Krock: when the 4th doctor met Romanna
21:44 Krock          ah.. still something on my ToDo list then
21:49 Fixer          Finals - 2016 Classic Tetris World Championship Classic Tetris // youtube, wth!?
21:55 TommyTreasure  i've recently upgraded my server to .16 stable, via minetest archives.  for some reason, minimap is returning 'Minimap disabled by server'.  any hints on where to look?
21:58 Krock          TommyTreasure, look for a mod that enables the minimap for the players. Either a new three-liner mod or the "map" mod from MTG do that
21:59 Fixer          TommyTreasure: are you using 0.4.16 stable minetest_game?
21:59 TommyTreasure  yes, .16-stable
21:59 TommyTreasure  i got both the engine and game via wget from the archives
22:05 TommyTreasure  in builtin/settingtypes.txt, 'enable_minimap (Minimap) bool true'
22:05 Krock          https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=297039#p297039
22:07 paramat        odd, i thought minimap was enabled in 0.4.16 stable
22:07 Shara          It is.
22:07 Krock          *shrug*
22:08 paramat        however in latest MTG it isn't
22:08 Shara          TommyTreasure: what version of MTG are you using?
22:09 TommyTreasure  i'd have to check my -hub log file.  i used the links posted in this channel when i was looking to get the .16-stable version of both minetes, and minetest_game
22:10 TommyTreasure  i added the code to my overrides mod.  still same response.  'disabled by server'
22:10 paramat        best navigate to version 0.4.16 in github and download to be sure
22:11 paramat        does your MTG have a 'map' mod?
22:12 TommyTreasure  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/0.4.16.zip
22:12 TommyTreasure  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/archive/0.4.16.zip
22:12 paramat        oh oops i see you did
22:13 TommyTreasure  i'm double checking my game now.  downloading again, and moving it into the games directory
22:14 paramat        yeah those are the correct links
22:14 paramat        for 0.4.16 stable
22:14 paramat        maybe a mod then
22:19 TommyTreasure  i just re-applied minetest_game from 0.4.16.zip, and it seems to be working.  guess i missed something the first time around
22:20 paramat        phew
22:21 * paramat      prepares for incoming minimap / zoom complaints =D
22:24 Calinou        https://meyer.fm/
22:24 Calinou        awesome website
22:24 TommyTreasure  seems as if i had the .15 version of minetest_game installed, as it had the old nyancat still in place
22:24 Calinou        it needs more JPEG :)
22:26 Fixer          paramat: incoming????
22:29 paramat        hehe
22:29 IhrFussel      Here's a list of unique random generated names by apps that connected to my server so far ... maybe anyone finds a use case for it http://ihrfussels-server.tk/names.txt
22:30 paramat        wow
22:30 paramat        no names with numbers?
22:31 IhrFussel      paramat, numbers were removed from them since those can be anything between 00-9999
22:32 red-001        IhrFussel, huh you could try and check how many of them are worldcraft names
22:41 Fixer          Tiffanie
22:41 Fixer          Tiffany
22:41 Fixer          Tiffiny
22:41 Fixer          linux OS has some very useful CMD for that
22:41 Fixer          uniq
22:42 IhrFussel      There are lots of names that are regularly used in the world like Thomas, Tiffany, Peter etc...but also some that are inappropriate in German like Ficker
22:42 IhrFussel      The list already got parsed by uniq
22:43 Fixer          hmm, then i'm wrong
22:43 Fixer          you have to remove both dupes
22:43 Fixer          maybe uniq can do that
22:44 Fixer          combine and sort both lists and do uniq -u ?
22:45 Fixer          oh, msys2 has uniq too
22:47 IhrFussel      Fixer, I see no duplicate names in that list
22:47 Fixer          ignore case
22:48 IhrFussel      red-001, I don't think Worldcraft names are only used by the Worldcraft app
22:49 Fixer          IhrFussel: did it
22:49 IhrFussel      Without unique the list would have 25,080 entries, after uniq it has 10,649
22:49 IhrFussel      uniq*
22:50 Fixer          IhrFussel: 89% of your names come from Worldcraft ;)
22:50 sofar          Sokomine: thanks for checking the skins out, appreciated
22:52 Fixer          IhrFussel: or generaly speaking 89% of your names are generated by worldcraft
22:53 Fixer          but some are generated by legitimate users, but probably it is more or less close to 90%
22:53 Fixer          especially if it is with those numbers
22:54 Fixer          IhrFussel: so by using list provided by red-001 you can control 90% of mobile userbase more or less :}
22:54 IhrFussel      Fixer, Yes I only grepped for player files that match this regex "[A-Z][a-z]{1,}[0-9]{2,4}"
22:55 Fixer          IhrFussel: oh lol
22:55 red-001        do we know where worldcraft got this list from?
22:55 red-001        you can't google search 10,000 names
22:55 Fixer          red-001: probably some site with list of names
22:55 IhrFussel      Many names are German words actually
22:56 Fixer          like when some kid is born, parents thinking to give it some name apart from Unit 256A
22:56 Fixer          they google for site that gives list of names
22:56 red-001        well I get that just which one did they use
22:56 Fixer          "Applepielover"
22:57 Fixer          that list also has not only first name but last one too
22:58 red-001        maybe they used a list made for dictionary attacks
22:58 red-001        since IhrFussel said a lot of the names are just german words
22:59 Fixer          red-001: have you even tried? first result: "Search the 50,000 baby names in our database using our exclusive Nameberry lists. You'll find lists of cool bible baby names and crazy celebrity baby names, ..."
22:59 Fixer          50 000
23:00 Fixer          adolphus // poker face
23:00 red-001        lol
23:00 red-001        well I guess there might be a similar list somewhere for usernames
23:01 IhrFussel      "Ficker" means fucker in German
23:01 Fixer          nice
23:01 Fixer          will remember
23:01 Fixer          and fick is fuck?
23:02 Fixer          fickling
23:02 Fixer          faggard
23:02 IhrFussel      fuck is fick/ficken ... also what's this? Penister
23:03 Fixer          LOOOOOL
23:03 Fixer          i will not google this
23:03 Fixer          IhrFussel: das ist fantastisch
23:03 Fixer          also, pensis
23:04 Fixer          mechanic
23:04 Fixer          penister - best name ever
23:04 IhrFussel      "Poorman" lol
23:05 Fixer          "nickel"
23:05 TommyTreasure  there was an old website by a company that made pens.  it was penisland.com
23:05 Fixer          opiola
23:05 IhrFussel      Salzmann = salt man
23:05 Fixer          TommyTreasure: nice
23:06 red-001        they are an internet lengend at this stage TommyTreasure
23:06 Fixer          popularis
23:06 TommyTreasure  hmmm, its still there!  but at penisland.net
23:06 Fixer          ransbottom
23:06 Fixer          robicheaux
23:06 Fixer          eau...
23:06 red-001        I wonder how many badly designed web filters block that
23:07 Fixer          no seaman, Sad!
23:07 red-001        Seemann?
23:08 Fixer          virdin
23:08 Fixer          loool
23:08 IhrFussel      Eichelmann could be translated as penis man
23:09 Fixer          nice
23:09 Fixer          "winegar"
23:10 Fixer          seeing slavic names too
23:10 Fixer          last names
23:10 Fixer          too
23:10 Shara          Hi lhofhansl, and welcome :)
23:10 Fixer          "bombino"
23:10 Fixer          very nice
23:10 lhofhansl      hi :)
23:10 Fixer          good for suicide bombing in MC
23:10 red-001        wb lhofhansl
23:11 IhrFussel      Frauenfelder = women fields ... what the?
23:11 Fixer          "cockerham"
23:11 Fixer          feels cheesy
23:12 Shara          Fussel, do these actually get used as real names?
23:12 Fixer          "doorset"
23:12 red-001        is this from the name list dump or from the user list for your server
23:12 IhrFussel      Shara, any of those connected to my server yes
23:13 Fixer          "dykhouse"
23:13 Fixer          red-001: from your list
23:13 Shara          I mean for actual people, not the app auto-assign names
23:13 IhrFussel      Shara, You mean if those are real German lastnames? I doubt it for some
23:14 Shara          Hmm.
23:14 Fixer          "hamming"
23:14 Fixer          "hanger"
23:14 red-001        you could try and process the list to exclude names that are auto generated
23:14 Fixer          hanger vs hunger
23:14 Fixer          red-001: i did that
23:14 IhrFussel      It doesn't simply fetch a name DB ... who would name themselves "Heroprolol"
23:14 Fixer          red-001: 90% of names were from your list :D
23:15 red-001        hero pro lol???
23:16 Fixer          59 names starting with "mcc"
23:17 red-001        lol
23:17 Fixer          "niffenegger"
23:17 Fixer          feeling like schwarzenegger
23:18 Fixer          "pickup"
23:19 IhrFussel      "Allcock"
23:21 Fixer          nice
23:22 Fixer          "schwinghammer"
23:22 Fixer          "vansteenhuyse"
23:23 Fixer          "tupacyupanqui"
23:23 Shara          Getting a bit spammy now.
23:23 Fixer          yep
23:23 Shara          Stop then :)
23:24 Fixer          32 names with length of 13
23:24 red-001        has anyone written a mod to block account creation if a username starts with a word?
23:24 Fixer          one more: "shariat"
23:24 Fixer          Shara: no shara in the list
23:24 IhrFussel      But kinda crazy how such names connect to our servers and all we could do is block all names that match those patterns (which is a lot)
23:25 Fixer          IhrFussel: nah, do not block, make some special area for them to hang out and then THE WAALLL, WE GONNA BUILD
23:25 Fixer          in trump voice
23:26 Fixer          Sad! that i can't host anything on my PC, if can, i would started this server long time ago with experiments on mobile players
23:30 IhrFussel      Fixer, the real sad thing is that most users are too stupid to TOUCH the generated name and change it to another...they just accept such garbage names and connect to a server
23:30 Fixer          or lazy
23:30 red-001        someone just write a mod to tell them to change thier name to join
23:30 Fixer          also, LazyJ proves his name, LG2 still on 0.4.14
23:30 red-001        lol
23:31 Fixer          red-001: no!
23:31 IhrFussel      red-001, already exists..I think no_guests
23:31 Fixer          red-001: you are ruining the fun
23:31 Fixer          yes, no_guests
23:31 red-001        IhrFussel, I suppose
23:31 Fixer          this list is useful for other purpose
23:31 Fixer          for pcmasterrace race
23:32 Fixer          just by using it you can filter huge part of annoying cobble builders to some 1000x1000 area somewhere away from spawn
23:33 Fixer          PCem MSYS2 build guide (with wxWidgets)
23:33 Fixer          ooooooooooooooooooh
23:33 * Fixer        leaks
23:35 red-001        does no_guests get all of them?
23:47 Sokomine       fixer: it's worse if you get young males in puberty who believe that their reproductive organ ought to be build inside the game...everywhere. thankfully most of them get older sooner or later
23:47 IhrFussel      red-001, The regex needs to be [A-Z][a-z]+[0-9][0-9][0-9]?[0-9]? or something like that
23:48 IhrFussel      That should match all generated names BUT also many non-generated ones which is why the mod is risky
23:48 Sokomine       ihrfussel: rather dirty immagination. maybe that player was just particulary intrested in the fruit of the tree that's called "eichel" (no idea about the english name)
23:49 IhrFussel      Sokomine, acorn ... but since the word can be both it's not good as a name at all
23:50 Sokomine       fixer: schwinghammer doesn't sound too bad. ok, in minetest, he probably ought to call himshelf schwingaxt (kind of axe wielder)
23:51 Fixer          Sokomine: have not seen male parts since 2011
23:51 Fixer          Sokomine: ***in minetest
23:52 paramat        hehe
23:52 Fixer          Sokomine: also, begging you to update your images for your mods, and maybe short it up a bit
23:53 Sokomine       fixer: i know...it's on my list :-(. most urgent is the update of the circular saw for hardware coloring
23:53 Sokomine       just got a bit more busy rl than i wanted :/
23:53 Fixer          Sokomine: moreblocks one?
23:53 Sokomine       fixer: yes. that one
23:54 Sokomine       i wrote the original one, and calinou somehow changed it a bit. it envolved over time. calinou has already expressed intrest in an update for hardware coloring. i just need to get around to finish it
23:55 Fixer          Sokomine: very nice, just don't forget to specify download for older versions of minetest that do not support hardware colouring
23:55 Sokomine       most of the remaining trouble lies in translating colors. those saw shapes can have 8 colors - while their source blocks may have many more
23:55 Sokomine       what will happen if such clients join a server with hardware coloring?
23:56 Fixer          Sokomine: everything will have same colour iirc
23:56 Sokomine       fixer: sounds reasonable
23:56 Fixer          Sokomine: btw, what do you mean by hardware colouring, we can assign any colour to any block?
23:57 Sokomine       fixer: yes. that option to store color in some bits of param2 when the block is placed on the map and otherwise as a value in the itemstack
23:59 Sokomine       those 256 colors that are possible for full blocks are a bit too much for real usage on a server (overwhelms the user). 8 colors are too few. defining variants for all shapes and colors would be too much...but to offer only 8 colors might be too few. and then you get the trouble to select which colors to take