Time  Nick          Message
00:00 paramat       actually mapgen carpathian doesn't have crazy 3D noise structures and has lots of flat areas to build on
00:00 paramat       partly why it was added
00:00 paramat       better than mgv6 for building stuff
00:02 benrob0329    Megaf: gentoo probably could
00:03 benrob0329    And LFS, but thats not technically a distro
00:05 Megaf         root@VZHost:~# free -m
00:05 Megaf         total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
00:05 Megaf         Mem:             49          21           1           0          26          24
00:06 Megaf         Simply put, there's no reason somebody shoulnd't use Debian
00:06 Megaf         and I can reduce a lot / if I begin to remove some modules
00:08 Calinou       <Megaf> Simply put, there's no reason somebody shoulnd't use Debian
00:08 Calinou       suddenly: Fedora, Ubuntu, Arch, Antergos, Manjaro… :D
00:08 Calinou       there's no reason somebody should use Debian, I'd even say :P
00:09 Calinou       (I just find Fedora/Arch-based distros much better, these days)
00:09 Megaf         well, I used Fedora and Arch for many years
00:09 Calinou       (I still use Ubuntu Server 16.04 on my server, but I don't like how the software begins to be quite outdated already)
00:10 rubenwardy    Ooops "Your page has 3 redirects. Redirects introduce additional delays before the page can be loaded. https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4d2b9253178875b3e96bab226563cade"
00:15 Megaf         /dev/sda1 1886 379 1492 21% /
00:15 Megaf         379 MB used
00:17 Calinou       https://media.hugo.pro/explorer_2017-09-09_02-17-52.png
00:17 Calinou       I gotta do something… :|
00:18 Megaf         Calinou, use Linux
00:18 Megaf         it's a good start
00:19 Megaf         Calinou, right click on the drive, propeties and the thing to clean disk
00:19 Calinou       yeah, I know about that
00:20 Calinou       just run it, it didn't really free anything
00:20 Calinou       I'll just remove some stuff sitting in my Downloads folder :P
00:24 Megaf         I decided to put my downloads folder in a ramdisk
00:25 Megaf         it was always full...
00:33 Megaf         root@VZHost:~# df -h /dev/sda1
00:33 Megaf         Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
00:33 Megaf         /dev/sda1       1.9G  371M  1.5G  20% /
00:33 Megaf         o/
00:49 KaadmY        Calinou: yeah I saw Zandronum 3.0 yesterday :P
01:41 Megaf-Haiku   I can speak now
06:24 Hijiri        forum is broken
06:29 Hijiri        oh, everybody knows
06:46 CWz           Ahoy there seems the forum is broken again
06:54 sofar         I've contacted the authorities :)
07:28 tenplus1      hi folks
07:29 rdococ
07:30 tenplus1      hi rdococ
07:30 tenplus1      anyone know what's up with forums ???
07:39 Raven262      Calinou, Finally, No more shuttering on my PC (in zandronum).
07:39 Raven262      Gzdoom works very nice though.
07:39 tenplus1      hi raven
07:39 Raven262      Hi tenplus1
07:40 celeron55_    http://i.imgur.com/KH3PukH.png
07:40 celeron55_    /var wasn't happy
07:40 celeron55_    and, well, still isn't
07:40 tenplus1      o/ celeron
07:47 rdococ        hi
07:58 rdococ        Hunger now depletes your health if your bar is empty, but currently there is no way to get that to happen yet.
07:59 rdococ        well, unless you eat red mushrooms, which now make you hungry :P
08:02 tenplus1      ???
08:05 rdococ        oh, I'm rambling on about my in-dev subgame
08:06 tenplus1      oh, thought you were using stamina mod for that
08:06 rdococ        nah, I'm creating it from scratch using code from my new health bar mod
08:06 tenplus1      ahh
08:07 rdococ        it's probably going to be similar, though
08:07 tenplus1      :P
08:09 rdococ        the game's probably different enough to cause some incompatibilities, e.g. in crafting recipes designed to use steel
08:10 rdococ        but I plan to readd steel by crafting iron ingots with coal anyway
08:10 tenplus1      being a sub-game you gotta add what needs to be added and fix it :)
08:10 tenplus1      that'll work
08:11 rdococ        iron lumps now smelt to form iron ingots, as opposed to steel ingots. at the moment, it uses the same textures as steel does, but that may change.
08:11 rdococ        crafting 5 iron ingots with 4 diamonds nets you cast iron (forgot how many ingots, though).
08:12 rdococ        cast iron replaces diamond in various aspects, and is usable as a stronger alternative to iron/steel as well in things like ladders
08:12 tenplus1      kewl
08:12 rdococ        Plan: buckets mod will be modified to add iron buckets, and cast iron buckets. only cast iron buckets will be able to carry damaging liquids, such as lava.
08:16 tenplus1      cklay buckets you gotta fire before being usable ?
08:17 rdococ        maybe
08:17 rdococ        hm, I swear there was a mod which already had wrought and cast iron
08:17 rdococ        I might add wrought iron, then mixing wrought with cast nets you steel
08:18 rdococ        but nah
08:20 rdococ        wait
08:20 tenplus1      hi lisac
08:21 rdococ        new plan: cast iron won't be used in making tools and stuff
08:21 rdococ        instead, what are currently cast iron tools will be rebranded to steel tools. steel would be created by mixing wrought iron with cast iron.
08:21 rdococ        wrought iron will appear slightly orangish, cast iron slightly bluish.
08:22 lisac         hey tenplus1
08:22 lisac         rdococ, just make a high furnace and smelt steel
08:22 lisac         *iron
08:22 tenplus1      try not to over complicate things rdococ
08:22 lisac         or add white, grey and cast iron
08:22 * lisac       needs to re-read his textbook on machine materials
08:22 rdococ        having multiple furnaces doesn't even make sense
08:23 lisac         oh it does. High furnaces are how iron products are made
08:23 rdococ        what the heck is a high furnace
08:23 rdococ        did you give a furnace weed?
08:23 tenplus1      high temp furnace for smelting ores, normal furnace for food items
08:23 tenplus1      e.g.  Smelting Furnace
08:23 lisac         apparently my translation sucks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace
08:24 lisac         it's called 'Visoka Peć', literally 'High furnace' on Serbian
08:24 lisac         anyways, pure iron is very very hard to get, and is basically useless
08:24 rdococ        hmm
08:25 rdococ        meh, idk now
08:25 lisac         IIRC there are 3 main iron types
08:25 lisac         the carbon one (dark), the white one, and the other one
08:25 lisac         see, very descriptive
08:26 lisac         ^ technical irons
08:26 rdococ        are you talking about iron, wrought iron and cast iron?
08:26 lisac         possibly
08:26 rdococ        cast iron is probably the carbon one
08:26 rdococ        wrought iron is likely to be the other one
08:26 rdococ        well, or steel
08:27 lisac         so, pig iron has a high carbon content
08:27 lisac         too high
08:27 lisac         you smelt it and add oxygen to reduce the carbon content
08:27 lisac         and get steel
08:27 rdococ        so...
08:27 lisac         so maybe just smelting pig iron should give you steel
08:27 rdococ        crude iron metal -> pig iron -> steel?
08:28 lisac         *ore
08:28 lisac         yes. And you can make it more complicated
08:28 rdococ        lisac: but I want steel to be rarer
08:28 lisac         Oh, simple. Require an expensive tech to convert iron to steel
08:28 lisac         and maybe give 1 steel for 4 iron
08:28 rdococ        I'm planning on using it to replace diamond tools...
08:29 lisac         there never should've been iron tools
08:29 rdococ        whadya mean?
08:29 lisac         in MT, you can make tools out of iron and get steel tools
08:29 lisac         right?
08:29 lisac         well, iron tools would break really fast
08:29 rdococ        in MT, iron lumps smelt into steel ingots
08:30 lisac         yeah
08:30 rdococ        hm, maybe I'm taking an incorrect approach
08:31 tenplus1      https://ftb.gamepedia.com/Steel
08:31 tenplus1      if it helps
08:32 rdococ        meh, I'm not sure I want to add a new type of furnace
08:32 rdococ        honestly, I think we need a furnace overhaul
08:33 tenplus1      yeah, 2 input slots for starters
08:33 lisac         maybe add iron and steel furnaces
08:33 lisac         so you've got stone, iron and steel one
08:33 lisac         when we are at how other games do it: https://wiki.factorio.com/Steel_plate
08:34 rdococ        I might add graphite, which would be used to create graphene/grapheme (spellcheck doesn't seem to recognize it) tools, which would be hard to craft but extremely strong
08:34 tenplus1      4x iron ingots + 1x coal lummp = 1x steel ingot
08:35 lisac         tenplus1, poor players
08:35 rdococ        perhaps
08:35 tenplus1      simple recipe to solve any confusion
08:35 rdococ        but maybe iron ore -> pig iron first?
08:35 tenplus1      and since steel is a lot stronger than iron and bronze it'll last longer to compensate player
08:35 rdococ        tenplus1: I was going to use steel to replace diamond tbh
08:35 lisac         rdococ, smelting iron should give you two other types of iron
08:36 lisac         not just one
08:36 rdococ        hm
08:36 rdococ        lisac: how would that work?
08:37 lisac         simply output pig and cast iron ingot out
08:37 lisac         most furnaces already have got 2 output slots, right?
08:37 rdococ        if I'm reading the situation on pig and cast iron correctly, aren't pig and cast iron similar anyway? even then, what would cast iron be used for? I plan for pig iron to smelt into steel, but cast iron?
08:38 lisac         cast iron has nice heat distribution properties
08:39 rdococ        would that be useful in, say, a cast iron furnace?
08:39 lisac         probably
08:39 rdococ        or... or maybe not
08:39 rdococ        idk
08:39 lisac         'The first cast-iron bridge was built during the 1770s by Abraham Darby III, and is known as The Iron Bridge.'
08:39 lisac         it is also good for building, apparently.
08:40 tenplus1      also brings in a good idea for iron blocks to become rusted over time giving decorative block
08:40 tenplus1      samwe way copper block has it's copper patina alternative in moreblocks
08:41 lisac         maybe differentiate different temperatures for materials in furnaces? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron#/media/File:Steel_pd.svg
08:42 rdococ        hm
08:42 rdococ        in regular mt_game, steel is as strong as bronze
08:43 tenplus1      going up in strength it should be iron -> bronze -> steel
08:44 lisac         and remove wood tools.
08:44 tenplus1      yes
08:45 lisac         allow digging of stone by hand, but make it slow
08:45 lisac         like, painfully slow
08:45 lisac         5 seconds per node slow.
08:45 rdococ        how would you dig stone by hand
08:45 lisac         you'd break off pieces
08:45 tenplus1      find stones among gravel, same with flint
08:45 lisac         then make a primitive pickaxe using them
08:45 tenplus1      put stones together to make blocks
08:46 lisac         tenplus1, isn't gravel a bit too rare to require player to find before being able to do anything?
08:46 rdococ        have you two created a subgame yet?
08:46 tenplus1      I made an ethereal subgame ages ago, but gave up on it to simple have the mod itself
08:46 rdococ        lisac: I already have gravel as a requirement for getting flint, to craft a "flint head" to chop trees, but I was gonna compensate by making gravel more common
08:47 lisac         hmm
08:47 lisac         I need to make a subgame
08:47 lisac         tenplus1, interested in a nice tech-based subgame, like tehnic?
08:47 tenplus1      would be a good idea :) especially if it ran on servers more smoothly
08:48 lisac         tracing lines is the reason some mods lag
08:48 lisac         like mesecons
08:48 lisac         what if we had fields, like factorio?
08:48 lisac         you place a power pole, and everything in vicinity is connected
08:48 tenplus1      mesecon and technic needs a complete overhaul
08:49 rdococ        mesecon's internals are weird, man
08:49 tenplus1      I'd remove the mesecon wires lighting up and have a simple abm in the background with some particles to show activity... less laggy
08:49 lisac         tenplus1, remove wires completely
08:49 tenplus1      wires are necessary
08:49 tenplus1      for certain machines
08:49 rdococ        not necessarily
08:49 lisac         for example?
08:49 rdococ        I don't think, anyway
08:50 lisac         my power pole idea would be nice, I think
08:50 rdococ        at least if you have a good replacement for it
08:50 tenplus1      go back to using mese dust and not the wires
08:50 lisac         tenplus1, I heard tracing lines is expensive
08:50 rdococ        say, being able to connect a receptor to an effector directly with a tool
08:50 tenplus1      it can be, yes
08:50 rdococ        and wirelessly
08:51 tenplus1      wireless interaction is advanced level mesecons,,, we need wires to begin with
08:51 tenplus1      otherwise there's no progression
08:51 lisac         tenplus1, maybe stronger machines require more power?
08:51 lisac         therefore stronger power poles
08:51 tenplus1      technic has lv mv hv machines for that
08:52 lisac         yes, but with line tracing
08:52 rdococ        I have a mod similar to mesecons/digilines, but it's a wireless signalling system
08:52 rdococ        what if, rather than connecting lines to connect blocks, you'd connect the blocks directly and a line would be drawn?
08:52 tenplus1      would be nice if placing a machine part would trace the line to the other side and only affect the machine nodes, leaving the wires out of it completely
08:53 tenplus1      that way a simple on place does the searching and the machine operation works only between the two
08:53 tenplus1      faster
08:53 lisac         what if we just draw lines between two connected machines?
08:54 tenplus1      have formspec deal with input./output coords
08:54 tenplus1      to direct link machines ?
08:55 lisac         hmm typing coords is painful
08:55 lisac         that's how basic_machines does it
08:55 tenplus1      have a button to PUNCH output machine
08:55 tenplus1      like the basic_machines mod does... only easier
08:55 tenplus1      that one runs many times faster than technic
08:55 tenplus1      no wires
08:55 lisac         hmm not a bad idea
08:56 tenplus1      what we need most is simplicity of use and progression (if possible)
08:56 lisac         also add infotext, 'Connected to <other machine name> at <other machine coords>'
08:56 rdococ        again, I have a wireless signalling system that allows you to connect two nodes by clicking on them with a tool
08:56 lisac         have two connections, input and output
08:57 lisac         input gives power and some data, output outputs data or power
08:57 rdococ        although it was designed for creative and so doesn't have a power system
08:57 tenplus1      battery input for charging, output for powering...  grinder for input (items) output (storage) but needs power
08:58 lisac         tenplus1, problem is if we've got generators that should be connected to multiple locations
08:58 lisac         maybe have power dispenser
08:58 lisac         that can be connected to 5 outputs
08:58 lisac         and 1 input
08:58 tenplus1      there's a lot to think about when it comes to machines i minetest
08:58 lisac         also have maxrange
08:58 lisac         in order to prevent 2000 nodes generator distance
08:58 tenplus1      unless you go totally steam power and have a compressor that uses coal
08:59 lisac         make player start with steam
08:59 tenplus1      or rope levels with no power requird :D
08:59 lisac         lol
08:59 shivajiva     Hi, what about punching the machines to connect them after issuing a command, with implied wiring underground that is not visible until you dig in the path?
08:59 tenplus1      eg, level at door, pull lever to connect to machine that opens doors only
09:00 lisac         shivajiva, formspec is simpler for enduser
09:00 tenplus1      start with simple machines/pulleys and make them more complicated as/when needed :D
09:00 lisac         not everyone will read a forum post on how to use it
09:00 tenplus1      hi shiva
09:00 lisac         but everyone will get the idea to rightclick a node
09:00 lisac         hey shivajiva
09:00 shivajiva     adding coords in a formspec is not simpler than punching :P
09:00 tenplus1      back laters, shopping time :)))
09:01 lisac         we'll have punching, but you'll press a button in formspec to active it
09:01 shivajiva     like a master switch
09:04 lisac         is there any way to drop items in MT?
09:04 lisac         from a mod?
09:05 shivajiva     drop as in spawn into the world
09:06 shivajiva     or remove an inventory item and spawn into the world
09:07 rdococ        uhm
09:08 lisac         yes
09:08 lisac         remove and spawn one
09:09 lisac         then have a transport belt that just moves every item on it forward
09:09 lisac         on the other side, have an inserter which picks up items from the node next to it and places it to the other side
09:11 shivajiva     yea you can do that in code but it would be quite heavy moving items node to node like a conveyor me thinks
09:18 rdococ        idea: copper wiring mechanism with copper ingots
09:23 rdococ        hi DS-minetest
09:24 DS-minetest   hi
09:26 rdococ        heh
09:26 rdococ        https://xkcd.com/1180/
10:04 rdococ        does [resize use nearest neighbor when scaling up?
10:35 IhrFussel     Are extended player attributes faster than global variables?
10:47 rdococ        heh, I should add kale that depletes your hunger
10:54 lisac         IhrFussel, I'd think they are slower
10:54 lisac         they not only write into RAM, but also save inside a file on HDD
10:54 lisac         right?
10:57 IhrFussel     lisac, they are saved to file every 15 secs by default
10:57 lisac         which would again make them slower then just using a variable.
10:57 IhrFussel     But I rather wanted to know whether accessing them in RAM is faster than accessing a global Lua var
10:58 lisac         variables are in RAM
10:58 lisac         not sure if lua has concept of cache
10:58 lisac         anyways, you could always test it
10:59 lisac         have a for loop write a thousand variables, and another write a thousand player attributes, check time it takes it to finish
10:59 lisac         do it a few times, get median value
10:59 IhrFussel     How do I get milliseconds in Lua?
11:00 lisac         http://lua-users.org/wiki/ProfilingLuaCode
11:01 lisac         os.clock()
11:04 rdococ        In my subgame, lava will kill you instantly (that is, 20 damage per second rather than 8. If you find a way to get more max HP, you could still survive for longer, though.)
11:05 lisac         IhrFussel, https://pastebin.com/r8FhXhXU
11:06 lisac         that seems to do... something.
11:08 rdococ        lisac: is there a way to create a solidifed liquid that doesn't flow? It'd be pretty cool to be able to solidify lava.
11:08 lisac         um... what's the difference between a non-flowing liquid and an ordinary node?
11:09 rdococ        a non-flowing liquid would be able to take on the shape of a flowing liquid, but would be unable to spread.
11:09 lisac         oh
11:09 shivajiva     like a solid then
11:10 rdococ        like lava that has solidified instantly, remaining in the shape it was as a liquid but not flowing
11:10 lisac         yes; aren't flowing liquids just models, anyways?
11:10 lisac         register a node for every flowing shape
11:10 lisac         then replace them in an ABM
11:11 rdococ        what would happen if you set liquid viscosity to math.huge, though?
11:11 lisac         you'd force the poor player to kill himself.
11:11 lisac         once you touch it there is no escape
11:12 Krock         there's also core.get_us_time() which gives you a microsecond precision
11:12 rdococ        oh, ew
11:12 lisac         https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4382
11:12 Krock         lisac, /spawn
11:12 lisac         ah it's the flow thing.
11:13 * lisac       wonders what happens in this case https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4453
11:13 lisac         does it flood itself?
11:13 lisac         and disappear?
11:14 lisac         or does it keep fading in and out?
11:14 lisac         flooding and not flooding?
11:14 Krock         huge lag, I suppose
11:15 rdococ        a floodable liquid
11:15 rdococ        I get the feeling that the liquid would flow into itself
11:15 rdococ        but might be wrong
11:15 rdococ        I feel the urge to test it
11:32 rdococ        hi DS-minetest
11:32 rdococ        (again)
11:34 DS-minetest   hi
11:36 Calinou       Raven262: also, I installed this launcher for Doom, https://github.com/Hypnotoad90/RocketLauncher2
11:36 Calinou       hi :)
12:01 tenplus1      hi folks
12:02 rdococ        hi
12:02 tenplus1      o/ rdococ
12:02 tenplus1      hi lisac
12:02 Krock         hi tenplus1
12:03 tenplus1      hey Krock :)
12:03 rdococ        hi eleven
12:03 tenplus1      glad the forums are back up
12:03 rdococ        my subgame currently has a thirst mod, but your thirst only depletes when you are in sunlight
12:03 tenplus1      should also deplete when you are moving/working
12:03 tenplus1      same as hunger
12:04 rdococ        hunger depletes over time, but it depletes faster to heal you when you're damaged
12:04 rdococ        currently moving and doing things doesn't change the speed at which they deplete
12:04 rdococ        also, I'm probably using a bad method of timing depletions anyway
12:04 rdococ        how do other mods do it?
12:04 tenplus1      check stamina mod, it'll show you how it depletes when moving/digging
12:06 rdococ        odd how it modifies core.do_item_eat...
12:06 tenplus1      that's so it's compatible with every food item in every mod
12:06 rdococ        my hunger mod currently adds an on_item_eat callback that returns the itemstack with an item removed
12:07 rdococ        I thought all food items were standardized to use minetest.item_eat
12:07 rdococ        or, at least, all food items in the more popular mods
12:08 tenplus1      they are... which is why code.do_item_eat is overriden by stamina to use it's own function and still eat food
12:08 tenplus1      stamina mod beats hud/hunger and hbhunger in this
12:08 tenplus1      and is very light on resources
12:08 Megaf         Hi tenplus1, wb
12:08 tenplus1      hi Megaf
12:08 Raven262      Calinou, I'm used to running doom from console, but this launcher looks nice.
12:08 rdococ        I'd use the stamina mod, but meh
12:09 tenplus1      lol, stamina mod also adds sprinting
12:09 Megaf         Folks, I'm trying to build mt for windows here on linux, but I get this error. Can you please have a look? http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/raw/master/CompilingMTforWindowsOnLinuxError
12:10 Megaf         This link for colourful text... http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/src/master/CompilingMTforWindowsOnLinuxError
12:11 tenplus1      have you tried this Megaf https://www.ditchWindowsAndUseLinux.net
12:11 Megaf         I will actually click, it must be fun
12:12 rdococ        ugh, I'm thinking about adding the stamina mod but not sure
12:12 Megaf         yep, very fun tenplus1
12:12 rdococ        I know it's probably some flavor of open-source but I still don't like using mods from others
12:13 rdococ        idk why, even though I'm basing my subgame off minetest_game
12:13 tenplus1      rdococ: sign onto Xanadu for a tick if you wanna see stamina mod in action
12:13 rdococ        odd
12:14 rdococ        "this conflicts with the builtin breath bar. To move the builtin breath bar, I basically have to entirely re-implement it in lua including timers to catch breath changes for each online player, which is all a waste of time, just to move a few pixels around."
12:14 rdococ        ...I guess that was written before the "override builtin hud" function was implemented
12:14 lisac         hey tenplus1
12:15 rdococ        it honestly doesn't make that much sense as to why the breath bar is builtin anyway tbh
12:15 lisac         tenplus1, still interested in that mod?
12:15 tenplus1      which mod lisac ?
12:16 lisac         Light easy to use automation mod
12:16 lisac         with electricity
12:17 lisac         Raven262 can do the textures. He joined already. Right, raven?
12:17 Raven262      Yeaaaaaa
12:17 cx384         hi tenplus1
12:18 tenplus1      hi cx384
12:18 * rdococ      gets to work on modifying stamina textures
12:18 tenplus1      I was thinking of a simple "Medeival Machines" mod that uses ropes to PULL mechanisms to open doors etc.
12:19 Shara         Hello
12:19 tenplus1      hi shara :)
12:19 Shara         Hi Ten :)
12:20 rdococ        hm
12:20 tenplus1      if pathfinding would allow you to follow certain nodes it'd be great for mesecon stuff
12:21 rdococ        should I replace the textures in the rdogame/mods/stamina folder, or override them in another mod?
12:21 tenplus1      but... from machine 1 to machine 2 we could use pathfinding to join them up with rope/wire to make sure it's connected and it's a LOT faster than mesecon checking
12:21 tenplus1      if you are replacing textures always do it within mod folder
12:22 lisac         tenplus1, problem with checking if it's in sight is that it needs to be checked every use
12:22 lisac         what if player puts a node over the 'cable'?
12:22 tenplus1      no no, when connecting two machines it checks once only and writes inside meta the coords for each machine location
12:23 tenplus1      that way machine works, uses coords and doesnt have to constantly check connection
12:24 lisac         yeah that's more-less the original idea
12:24 lisac         just have a button inside a node formspec to connect output to the other nodes input
12:24 lisac         like output of the generator to furnace input
12:24 lisac         and furnace output to some sort of an inserter to take stuff out when it's baked
12:25 rdococ        Yay, I got the stamina mod to look like my old hunger mod
12:25 tenplus1      and we could have a spool or wire or rope that uses pathfinding to connect machines and remove X amount of wire/rope from the bundle when connected
12:26 rdococ        ...???
12:26 lisac         not very easy to use, ten
12:26 rdococ        is the stamina mod increasing my HP to 21?
12:26 lisac         players might not figure out how to connect machines
12:26 rdococ        I keep getting an extra half-heart
12:27 tenplus1      once the initial workings has been sorted then messages/mouseovers can be used
12:27 rdococ        tenplus1: in the stamina mod, can my saturation exceed 20 (by default)?
12:28 cx384         water mills and wind mills would be nice to create mechanical energy.
12:28 tenplus1      it has settings to increase saturation max
12:28 rdococ        cx384: I had the idea of a cog mod
12:28 tenplus1      heh, cogs are what minecraft would have originally added instead of redstone :P
12:29 rdococ        true :P
12:29 rdococ        a cog would check the rotational speed of its neighbors. if all of them were equal, it would set its rotational speed to the negation of that.
12:30 rdococ        hm
12:30 rdococ        well, if all of them had the same sign or were 0
12:30 cx384         I want to build this in minetest :D https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Gear_5-bar_linkage.gif
12:31 tenplus1      heh
12:31 rdococ        tenplus1: what do you think about a simple copper wiring system?
12:32 rdococ        you'd have to build circuits, otherwise the electricity wouldn't flow
12:32 tenplus1      sounds good
12:32 tenplus1      and give copper a good use
12:32 rdococ        circuits would be detected recursively (maybe?)
12:32 lisac         tenplus1, make crafting need chopper wire
12:32 lisac         for the max range of the node connecting
12:32 lisac         like 10 if 10 nodes is the max distance
12:32 lisac         make 1 ingot give 2 wires
12:33 tenplus1      yeh... and when connecting wires use pathfind to remove and place needed wires and write meta
12:33 rdococ        lisac: I also had the idea of a survival-mode connection tool for my trigger mod, which would store the number of wires it was fed with and deplete it by the distance between two nodes when it is used to connect them
12:34 lisac         tenplus1, more like show no sign of connection but infotext.
12:34 lisac         else it becomes a bit laggy. Placing nodes.
12:34 lisac         rdococ, problem is then a player with 500 chopper could move electricity 1000 nodes away
12:35 lisac         you know, extremely long distances
12:36 rdococ        lisac: yeah, but unless we want the wires to actually show then no pathfinding is needed
12:36 lisac         I'd much rather force players to build some sort of repeaters inbetween for longer distances
12:37 rdococ        true
12:37 tenplus1      we do need a sort of wire setup if possible, but something nowhere as laggy as mesecons
12:37 rdococ        you could simply set a maximum range for that, though
12:38 lisac         tenplus1, I don't see why
12:38 cx384         this is a minecraft mod cable but I think this is not possible with minetest https://media-curse.cursecdn.com/attachments/152/607/1ccfc64fde13e87f5a2074cdde98412f.png
12:39 lisac         it forces a very strange design because you can't place wires inside walls
12:39 lisac         without making 3 node walls
12:39 rdococ        that's true
12:39 lisac         cx384, that looks great
12:39 lisac         awesome, actually. We need it
12:39 tenplus1      if only we could do that sorta thing in mt
12:39 rdococ        we def. need that
12:40 lisac         tenplus1, maybe objects?
12:40 lisac         for the wires
12:40 lisac         downward lines are harder, tho
12:40 tenplus1      hi srifqi
12:41 srifqi        hi tenplus1
12:43 srifqi        Anybody knows what will I get when I do minetest.settings:get("mgv5_np_ground") ? Will it be a table? How to store it?
12:44 lisac         use print(dump())
12:44 lisac         it will give you the contents of it
12:44 srifqi        Let me try.
12:44 tenplus1      local var = minetest.settings:get("mgv5_np_ground") ; print ("--- type:", type(var))
12:45 tenplus1      will tell you exactly what it is
12:45 srifqi        Okay, let's try both of them.
12:45 * srifqi      is wondering why GIMP loads longer after Windows Creator Update.
12:46 rdococ        creator update?
12:46 tenplus1      *shudders* at windows 10 updates
12:48 srifqi        Do you think, what happens when GIMP stuck on Font loading?
12:48 tenplus1      prolly remaking fonts list for windows
12:48 srifqi        Oh, it requires administrator now.
12:48 lisac         srifqi, easy to fix. Download a pirated version with spy stuff turned off. It also turns of the updates.
12:49 Fixer         it is still bad
12:49 Fixer         here is why
12:49 Fixer         actually no
12:49 Fixer         download pirated ltsb version and you should be fine
12:49 srifqi        ltsb?
12:49 Fixer         install security only updates
12:50 Fixer         anyway I'm staying on Win7
12:50 rdococ        lisac: sounds like an awful lot of trouble when you could get linux
12:51 Fixer         completely disabling updates is not good
12:51 tenplus1      hi Fixer and totally agree, Win7 is the better choice
12:51 srifqi        "2017-09-09 19:51:13: ERROR[Main]: Setting [mgv5_np_ground] is a group."
12:51 Fixer         beauty of previous Windowses was ability to choose what to update, now you have no choice, you suck it up, or you suck without updates
12:52 Fixer         is not W10 updates are cumulative?
12:52 tenplus1      microsoft could have easily re-written windows from the ground UP and fixed many of it's problems along the way
12:52 Fixer         so you can't really skip anything
12:52 srifqi        So, we can't use minetest.settings:get() to get a group?
12:53 srifqi        Back to on topic, please. :(
12:53 Fixer         what topic?
12:53 srifqi        So, we can't use minetest.settings:get() to get a group?
12:54 lisac         Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "zesty" 17.04 • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G (1.40GHz) • Memory: Physical: 6.6 GiB Total (4.6 GiB Free) Swap: 7.9 GiB Total (7.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 644.6 GB / 1.1 TB (445.0 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h • Uptime: 54m 7s
12:54 lisac         I'm on Linux
12:54 lisac         but Skyrim doesn't work well here
12:54 lisac         especially on this GPU
12:56 tenplus1      hi nrz
12:56 rdococ        hi nrz
12:56 srifqi        hi nerzhul
12:57 Fixer         hi
12:57 rdococ        hi
12:58 rdococ        is it normal for stamina mod to give me 21 HP?
12:58 nerzhul       lisac, what command did you use for that ?
12:58 nerzhul       hi all
12:58 Raven262      Hi nerzhul
12:58 tenplus1      o/
12:58 lisac         /sysinfo
12:58 lisac         it's a hexchat plugin
12:58 nerzhul       installed by default ?
12:58 rdococ         HexChat: 2.10.1 ** OS: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 ** Distro: Debian 8.6 ** CPU: 4 x AMD A4-6210 APU with AMD Radeon R3 Graphics     (AuthenticAMD) @ 1.20GHz ** RAM: Physical: 3.3GiB, 53.8% free ** Disk: Total: 913.4GiB, 89.5% free ** VGA: 1002:9850 ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic ** Ethernet: 10ec:8136 ** Uptime: 2d 7h 26m 43s **
12:58 lisac         hey nerzhul
12:59 Raven262      Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (x64) • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G   (3.10GHz) • Memory: 5.9 GiB Total (2.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 301.4 GiB / 611.0 GiB (309.6 GiB Free) • VGA: AMD Radeon(TM) R7 Graphics • Uptime: 3h 1m 17s
12:59 lisac         I think so
12:59 rdococ        depends
12:59 nerzhul       Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (1,40GHz) • Memory: 23,0 Gio Total (20,5 Gio Free) • Storage: 847,5 Go / 1,3 To (463,9 Go Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tahiti XT [Radeon HD 7970/8970 OEM / R9 280X] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RD9x0/RX980 Host Bridge • Uptime: 7m 16s
12:59 rdococ        heh, I'm still using an old ver :P
12:59 nerzhul       i see :p
12:59 lisac         :P
12:59 rdococ        I tend to get stuck in the past :P
12:59 rdococ        not when it comes to minetest 0.5.0, though, I hope :P
13:00 nerzhul       why does it said 1.4Ghz my processor can run at 4.2 GHZ :p
13:00 nerzhul       i think it's because it's not used :p
13:00 lisac         Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "zesty" 17.04 • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G (1.90GHz) • Memory: Physical: 6.6 GiB Total (4.5 GiB Free) Swap: 7.9 GiB Total (7.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 644.6 GB / 1.1 TB (445.0 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h • Uptime: 1h 0m 9s
13:00 Fixer         AMD users o_O
13:00 lisac         youtube must take a lot of CPU then
13:01 lisac         Fixer, AMD>Intel
13:01 lisac         can you cook soup on intel CPUs? No?
13:01 Krock         ^
13:01 lisac         or create baked goods?
13:01 Fixer         you can cook on any CPU
13:01 Krock         you can cook soup and eggs on a Riva TNT graphics card or P3/P4
13:01 lisac         or heat your room during winter?
13:01 nerzhul       Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4,00GHz) • Memory: 23,0 Gio Total (20,2 Gio Free) • Storage: 847,4 Go / 1,3 To (464,0 Go Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tahiti XT [Radeon HD 7970/8970 OEM / R9 280X] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RD9x0/RX980 Host Bridge • Uptime: 9m 43s
13:01 nerzhul       ah it's better when i compile MT :D
13:01 nerzhul       4.0 ghz :p
13:02 srifqi        "sysinfo :Unknown command"
13:02 tenplus1      brb
13:02 srifqi        see you
13:03 lisac         hey can you try this nerzhul? while true; do make clean && make -j ; done
13:03 srifqi        XD
13:04 * DS-minetest found out something interesting
13:04 nerzhul       it's already a make -j 8
13:04 nerzhul       i have 8 cores :)
13:05 cx384         I have only 2.
13:05 srifqi        DS-minetest, what is it?
13:05 Krock         DS-minetest, was it this? https://i.imgur.com/GRTZ35l.jpg
13:06 rdococ        lol
13:06 DS-minetest   Krock: the right or the left one? X3
13:07 DS-minetest   you know, that if you walk on the edge of a node, there are no footsteps. if you eg. throw an item on the edge it will glide
13:07 tenplus1      hi DS
13:07 DS-minetest   hi
13:08 Krock         DS-minetest, long known features
13:09 * DS-minetest didn't try it before >_<
13:09 cx384         http://i.imgur.com/7heihIA.jpg :}
13:17 cx384         The minetest coral texture is really ugly compared with this http://imgur.com/gallery/jaDHhWa.
13:22 tenplus1      wb amaz
13:23 Amaz          ty :)
13:26 rdococ        cx384: lol
13:37 rdococ        hi tenplus1
13:37 tenplus1      o/
13:37 rdococ        should I bother creating a copper wiring system, then?
13:38 tenplus1      am trying to think of the best way to handle it which would be easy to use and give progression
13:40 rdococ        components could either put themselves in the "conductive" group, or have an "is_conductive" function (to enable for nodes whose conductivity varies, without using set/swap_node, or for nodes whose conductivity can only be determined when the node is checked). nodes could also have an on_conduct function, which is called when the node becomes powered, or loses power.
13:41 tenplus1      sounds like a plan, but what differs from basic_machines and current mesecons ?
13:41 rdococ        nodes would manipulate electrical signals not through emitting or sending them, but purely through allowing a signal through or not.
13:41 rdococ        tenplus1: wires must form a circuit
13:42 rdococ        idk yet whether the wires themselves should turn on or off, or just whether wires should dictate how to trace the current
13:43 rdococ        sorta like silicons, but the wires aren't bundled for you
13:43 tenplus1      they should only dictate current.. .changing wires on conductivity is what slows down mesecons too much
13:44 rdococ        agreed
13:44 rdococ        hm, what should I call the mod? circuits?
13:44 tenplus1      machines should do their work without changing nodes around it for look alone... if anything a mouseover comment.text is ok
13:44 rdococ        true
13:47 rdococ        when a switch is flipped from on to off or vice versa, it should trace to find a battery in front of it - if it does, then it should see if the battery can trace to form a complete circuit
13:50 tenplus1      but tracing each and every time is a pain and slowdown... am thinking of placement in general updating circuit check once and once only on place/remove
13:52 tenplus1      am wondering how minecraft does it so smoothly with redstone, if I could remember the sourcecode site I used for mc I'd check it out
13:53 rdococ        you have to account for the fact that redstone has a finite signal strength, too
13:53 rdococ        s/strength/rnnge/
13:53 rdococ        s/rnnge/range/
13:54 srifqi        I was using buildbot64.sh, how to make it not reconfigure so that I don't have to compile ALL of them.
13:54 tenplus1      that's fine, if I can figure HOW they do it so fast then it'll help in porting it across to minetest minuns signal strength if needed
13:54 srifqi        I mean, I was using "make -j2" inside _build.
13:54 rdococ        it is weird how redstone isn't laggy in minecraft
13:54 rdococ        I mean, it even uses java
13:55 tenplus1      that's why I think it uses check_circuit_on_place instead of each and every iteration by machine
13:56 rdococ        hm
13:57 rdococ        unrelated idea: admin-customizable privilege groups, so "/grant tenplus1 mod" would add kick, ban, etc. but not server or worldedit
13:57 tenplus1      ? explain
13:58 tenplus1      https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/tree/master/net/minecraft/server minecraft decompiled code... checking for redstone now
14:00 rdococ        tenplus1: You would be able to define "privilege groups". When a group is granted, every priv that is part of it is granted. When it is revoked, every priv that is part of it is revoked.
14:00 tenplus1      I think granting specific privs is a lot easier than setting up groups
14:00 rdococ        you think?
14:01 tenplus1      to me anywat
14:01 tenplus1      *anyway
14:01 rdococ        I find it kind of difficult that I can't have a set list of privs for "moderators", a set list of privs for "admins", etc.
14:01 rdococ        meh, I might create it myself as a lua mod.
14:02 tenplus1      I grant privs depending on player ability/trust
14:02 rdococ        hm
14:02 Shara         Same as Ten, but TPS servers do have groups like that
14:02 Shara         DEspite being an admin there, I've never used the groups though
14:03 srifqi        Oh, I can run "make minetest/fast".
14:03 Shara         I really prefer to grant based on the individual player and which things I think they are good at handling
14:03 tenplus1      hrm, I just confused myself looking at redstone wire code: https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneWire.java
14:07 tenplus1      from what I gather redstone components use an internal timer to check for nearby power to turn things on or off
14:07 tenplus1      it's all in server ticks though
14:07 tenplus1      e.g. redstonelamps check themselves every 4 ticks to turn itself on or off depending on touching nodes
14:07 IhrFussel     MC ticks are 0.05 secs maybe that's what makes it look so fluent
14:08 tenplus1      hi fussel
14:08 tenplus1      can you imagine minetest checking every 0.05 * 4 seconds for neighbouring power to turn a lamp on or off... it'd lag like nuts
14:10 rdococ        how the hell does MC pathfind that quickly?
14:10 tenplus1      https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java this is a redstone torch that provides power
14:11 Krock         pro code: https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java#L90
14:11 Krock         almost readable
14:11 tenplus1      it does a sort of nodeupdate_single when placed for touching redstone components and runs their version of applied physics (on place) again
14:13 nerzhul       Krock, java powa xD
14:13 nerzhul       and function is called m
14:13 tenplus1      lol
14:14 tenplus1      seems each redstone component (or mc block in general) has a DoPhysics function that can be called when something changes around it
14:14 rdococ        oh yeah, the block updates
14:14 rdococ        why didn't I think of those?
14:15 tenplus1      and only if something changes it'll pass onto the next block and run it's DoPhysics etc.etc
14:15 tenplus1      so redstone lights up, doors open, machines work etc et
14:15 rdococ        hm, does minetest have that?
14:16 tenplus1      it doesnt have to constantly check the whole circuit
14:16 rdococ        wait, mesecons constantly checks the whole circuit?
14:16 tenplus1      cause it eventually whittles down from A (power) to B (machine)
14:16 rdococ        why would it do that?
14:16 rdococ        ah, it's gradual
14:16 tenplus1      hrm, I understand why redstone works much smoother
14:16 rdococ        it sounds like we need a queue
14:17 tenplus1      the DoPhysics is only called around the 6 faces of the block, never the diagonals, so saves 8 additional checks that way too
14:22 rdococ        hm
14:22 rdococ        do block updates happen sequentially, or in one server step? I can't imagine the latter
14:22 tenplus1      each block has it's own internal timers doing it's own thing
14:23 rdococ        oh, wow, nodetimers
14:23 tenplus1      so if redstone torch is placed its timers check around it once only and update the next lot of nodes which start their own timers etc to cehck for power or not
14:23 tenplus1      it radiates outward until nothing else needs to be checked
14:24 tenplus1      checking level code
14:24 rdococ        meh, that could still be made more efficient but that's nuts
14:24 tenplus1      it saves checking a whole line of components and wires, it only updates what needs to be updated this way
14:26 rdococ        to be honest, it sounds like mesecons and digilines, not only technic, were designed pretty badly
14:26 tenplus1      we could speed it up by getting a find_nodes_in_area(pos1, pos2, {"group:redstone_component"}) and running through a for loop to initiate each one's DoPhysics function
14:26 rdococ        hm, does minecraft use the equivalent of nodetimers, then?
14:27 tenplus1      yeah, when you plaec a block it has the ability to set internal timers
14:27 tenplus1      from what I see here
14:27 rdococ        ah, so I guess we should do that?
14:28 tenplus1      tht way if player is out of range nothing happens, and when in range it contionues the timer
14:28 rdococ        now we just need someone willing to redesign technic :P
14:28 tenplus1      https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java#L51
14:29 tenplus1      that function onPlace (redstone torch) starts applyPhysics of each block around it, and each block does it's own thing...
14:29 rdococ        ah
14:29 tenplus1      rdococ: start with mesecons and simple machinery, once that works well we can add machine by machine and get ppl involved :D
14:29 DS-minetest   actually mesecons isn't laggy…
14:30 tenplus1      I have an intel atom, I FEEL the lag
14:30 tenplus1      :P
14:30 rdococ        and you don't feel the lag with redstone? :P
14:30 tenplus1      I tinkered with it once and gave jeia some changes, he no like :P ahah
14:30 DS-minetest   what changes?
14:30 tenplus1      redstone works in a different way, but it seems smoother
14:30 tenplus1      DS-minetest: was a few swap_node instead of set_node changes that sped things up a lot
14:31 DS-minetest   aha
14:31 tenplus1      so long as no node-meta exists then swap_nodes are perfect... that's why I use it for Fire Redo mod
14:31 rdococ        tenplus1: why does he no like then?
14:31 tenplus1      wish I knew...
14:32 cx384         IMO mesecons is laggy.
14:32 rdococ        hm
14:32 tenplus1      what spec is your pc cx ? and have tyou used it in a server environment ?
14:32 DS-minetest   afaik mesecons can only cause lag when something happens
14:33 rdococ        tenplus1: wait, does it check EVERY 4 server ticks?
14:33 tenplus1      heh, when in use and changing things it can lag... but on it's own sitting doing nothing it's non-laggy :D
14:33 DS-minetest   yeah, because nothing happens…
14:33 tenplus1      lol
14:34 rdococ        meh, nodetimers
14:35 DS-minetest   poor mesecons devs, there are still 11 PRs from me open
14:35 rdococ        lol
14:35 cx384         o.O
14:35 DS-minetest   some of them non trivial
14:36 rdococ        lol
14:37 cx384         tenplus1, giant mesecon structures are laggy.(for example a calculator)
14:37 Fixer         rdococ: automation in default mtg
14:37 tenplus1      I had a server of Robbie's where they used a blinky plant to turn on/off 10 lights... it lagged that whole area to hell and back
14:38 tenplus1      using swap_node in the lights helped a lot, but still bad
14:38 tenplus1      checking mesecon actionqueue.lua to see how it operates now
14:40 DS-minetest   well, placing light nodes lags in minetest
14:41 tenplus1      since particles have glow feature, would be nice if we could do same with nodes... have them full brightness but without affecting light around them... just so they are SEEN in the dark
14:41 rdococ        ^
14:42 tenplus1      e.g.  light_source = -10  -- light up node at level 10 light all the time but without affecting nearby nodes
14:42 DS-minetest   do you know if minetest.get_objects_inside_radius radius is limited?
14:42 tenplus1      to hoe many objects ? or radius ?
14:42 tenplus1      *how
14:42 DS-minetest   no the radius
14:43 tenplus1      could make a test scenario and check :)
14:43 tenplus1      1 to 1000 radius ;D
14:43 DS-minetest   or i look into code
14:43 tenplus1      :P
14:43 rdococ        my subgame has unlit torches which you have to light with flint and steel, but they don't burn out unless you dig them again
14:44 tenplus1      rdococ: Real Torch mod handles this
14:44 rdococ        tenplus1: but I said /don't/ burn out
14:44 tenplus1      ah, so you find them, light them and they stay on... forever!!!!!!!!
14:44 tenplus1      :P
14:45 rdococ        yes
14:45 rdococ        lol
14:46 rdococ        you just need the ignition to start the exothermic reaction which enables our two face-adorning watery sacks to determine the rough geometry of the areas near the torch
14:46 tenplus1      hah, love it :P
14:47 tenplus1      I made real torch so you could light with gunpowder to re-ignite the embers... but if torch already lit you get hurt in the explosion :D hah
14:47 rdococ        tbh it'd be a pain to have to relight the torch constantly, even with lighters that never run out
14:47 rdococ        heh
14:48 tenplus1      giving them a life is a bit of realism... I should make the burnt out torches give 1 light only so you can at leasdt see them in the dark to relight
14:49 rdococ        unlit torches in my mod give out 4 light, I believe
14:49 rdococ        they are also 3d
14:49 tenplus1      can someone explain this please: https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons/blob/master/mesecons_blinkyplant/init.lua#L22
14:49 tenplus1      before blinkyplants had 3 nodes (on, off, inactive)... now it's 1 mode with 3x different changes... how's that work ?
14:49 tenplus1      wb Megaf
14:50 tenplus1      did I miss a note update or something ?
14:50 Megaf         not happy
14:50 rdococ        tenplus1: uh, I think mesecon.register_node is just a way to register multiple nodes at once easier
14:50 rdococ        note the "not_in_creative_inventory=1" group in the "on" state
14:50 tenplus1      a crap, didnt even see the mesecon. part at the start... ahahahahaa, custom function
14:50 rdococ        lol
14:51 tenplus1      false alarm, thought we had new features for a sec :d
14:51 rdococ        stuff like that is one of the reasons I love lua
14:51 tenplus1      been tinkering with LUA outwith minetest, it's pretty nifty at other stuff, even gui programs
14:52 rdococ        I once jokingly suggested a lua api for an irc bot written in python :P
14:52 tenplus1      hah
14:52 tenplus1      from what I'm reading, lua is better and smaller than python in most cases
14:52 rdococ        yeah
14:52 tenplus1      am surprised users dont convert existing code across and see if it runs any better
14:53 DS-minetest   looks like it's not limited
14:54 rdococ        does minetest.get_objects_inside_radius check each object to see if it falls inside the radius?
14:54 rdococ        (I hope so, otherwise the universe is broken :P)
14:55 tenplus1      lol it should
14:55 nerzhul       for those who are interested, i tested and succeed to create automated debian repository using gitlab pages :D
14:55 nerzhul       https://gitlab.com/nerzhul/debianrepo
14:55 DS-minetest   yes, it checks the distance of each active object to the position if it's bigger than radius
14:55 nerzhul       i build / download two packages, and create a repository, publish on gitlab pages and it works heh
14:55 nerzhul       maybe sfan5 we should add a step to have https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest debian/ubuntu repository ? :D
14:56 nerzhul       daily snapshot build + repo :p without hands
14:57 rdococ        hm
14:57 tenplus1      http://lua-users.org/wiki/GraphicalUserInterfaceToolkits
14:57 rdococ        I should modify my hearts bar mod (a part of my subgame that changes the health bar) to support >10 hearts
15:00 rdococ        and maybe add a system for displaying status effects like poison
15:00 rdococ        btw, have you seen my status effects mod yet?
15:00 rdococ        it's pretty extendable
15:02 rdococ        can't wait til 0.6.0, though
15:02 tenplus1      :P lol
15:03 rdococ        I'm trying out 0.6.0-dev from a time travelling friend of mine
15:03 tenplus1      ah kewl... do i still rule the world in 2023 ?
15:04 rdococ        lemme ask him
15:04 rdococ        back
15:04 rdococ        and he says you die on Friday 8th September 2017.....wait... that was YESTERDAY!
15:04 tenplus1      seem IUP is the better gui front-end for LUA: http://webserver2.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/gallery_dlg.html
15:04 rdococ        brb, gonna ask him about the temporal inconsistency
15:04 tenplus1      o.O <-- sudden realisation!!!  zombie me :P
15:05 rdococ        huh, apparently you died yesterday, but then was revived
15:05 rdococ        I'm gonna ask him why he couldn't give me 0.6.0-stable to try out.
15:07 rdococ        ahhh. he says it's because an asteroid will impact Earth on the 3rd of March, 1972...wait...
15:16 Megaf         old console geeks might like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fffb-_VCuCo
15:17 Megaf         megadrives more precisely
15:19 tenplus1      you ever seen the Armiga yet ?
15:19 tenplus1      https://www.armigaproject.com/
15:20 Megaf         not really
15:20 Megaf         but there are AmigaOS OSes for PC
15:20 tenplus1      this is a tiny console device with build in floppy that'll let you read your original amiga floppies and store them on internal sd card to play :D
15:21 Megaf         tenplus1, it looks too small for me...
15:21 rdococ        dammit, I wish I could hop on xanadu
15:22 Megaf         Why cant you?
15:22 tenplus1      dont you have a bootable flash drive ?
15:24 Megaf         Im still watching the megadrive video, he plugged into a commodore CRT, oh boy, amazing image
15:25 tenplus1      yeah, the old Commodore 1084S monitors were amazing (had one)
15:33 rdococ        Megaf: "Sorry, no new players being admitted at this time!"
15:33 tenplus1      ooh, lemmie open border :)
15:34 tenplus1      done
15:35 rdococ        YAY
15:42 Calinou       did you build a wall to keep new players out? ;)
15:43 tenplus1      lol, we have a border to stop offenders entering server
15:43 benrob0329    Only mobile players ;-)
15:43 nerzhul       rdococ, what do you mean ? which feature do you need in core ?
15:44 nerzhul       (status effect, 0.6.0, etc)
15:51 tenplus1      lol dude
15:52 tenplus1      swear filter got you :)
15:56 rdococ        nerzhul: it was a joke :
15:56 rdococ        P
15:57 nerzhul       oh
15:57 benrob0329    Ugg, 10 hours+ of rendering later, and I still have a couple things to fix
15:58 tenplus1      long rendering time ... movie or still ?
15:58 benrob0329    Doctor Who fan intro :P
15:58 benrob0329    Maybe even the first in blender :D
15:58 Fixer         tenplus1: costs too much
15:59 tenplus1      :P
16:00 rdococ        lol
16:00 tenplus1      did you actually swear in german ?
16:00 Fixer         tenplus1: costs as much as original one for sale
16:00 rdococ        tenplus1: yes
16:00 tenplus1      true but better than original in a sense
16:02 benrob0329    Aw dang, this guy beat me to it: https://youtu.be/kYRR4BKmb5o
16:03 benrob0329    And this...thing: https://youtu.be/TFk0AHIMOII
16:03 tenplus1      oh man, this one is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
16:06 benrob0329    Lol, this one actually is really good: https://youtu.be/6x-h6XMI8qQ
16:07 tenplus1      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qra6fc47jAY in 360 VR if you have it
16:08 benrob0329    Hmm...his tardis is animated better XD
16:10 benrob0329    *animation
16:11 Fixer         tenplus1: you can install emulator and use already digitized diskette files, 0 usd
16:12 tenplus1      true
16:12 tenplus1      UAE is pretty good
16:12 Fixer         hack, you can buy PI3 and emulate _everything_
16:14 benrob0329    Fixer: nice markdown
16:15 tenplus1      pi3 is pretty good...
16:16 rdococ        hack
16:22 rdococ        lol
16:25 * rdococ      hugs tenplus1
16:25 tenplus1      lol
16:26 Megaf         speaking of pi3
16:26 rdococ        lol
16:26 Megaf         I wonder if I could stick a pi zero on my keyboard
16:26 rdococ        my trigger mod is so hacky it redefined minetest.register_node
16:26 Megaf         in my keyboard I mean
16:26 rdococ        s/ed/es/
16:27 Megaf         I have a very nice 8 Euro USB keyboard, and it looks quite old school
16:27 Megaf         it'd be nice if I could it plug it to a TV
16:27 rdococ        although to be fair it handles it kinda well
16:32 benrob0329    rdococ: why would you do that...thats going to potentially break everything
16:36 rdococ        benrob0329: ik
16:36 rdococ        :P
16:37 rdococ        benrob0329: to be honest, though, it runs "old_register_node(...);" first, then does its stuff afterwards
16:37 rdococ        although, if it errors, the error's going to pop up there instead of where minetest.register_node was called
16:55 tenplus1      hi Natechip
16:55 Natechip      hi tenplus1
16:55 garywhite     morning all
16:55 tenplus1      hi gary
16:55 tenplus1      o/
16:55 garywhite     o/
16:56 Natechip      guess my PC shutdown somehow O_O
16:56 tenplus1      o-
16:56 Natechip      welp now my uptime is gone XD
16:56 tenplus1      uptime; 0.2 seconds now... clean slate :D
16:56 tenplus1      hi kaeza
16:57 kaeza         hi tenplus1
16:57 tenplus1      :P
16:58 Natechip      meh
16:58 Natechip      it was at 5 weeks
16:58 Natechip      ._.
17:00 tenplus1      record time
17:08 rdococ        lol
17:15 srifqi        Anybody knows why some elements in dialog just ignored? ... or have I done something wrong?
17:15 tenplus1      how you mean ?
17:20 srifqi        I mean, when a dialog only consist of 2 checkboxes and 2 buttons, it works well. But, when there are 9 textboxes, 6 checkboxes, and 2 buttons, the checkboxes ignored.
17:20 tenplus1      hrm, weird bug
17:22 tenplus1      add an issue if it persists
17:23 tenplus1      hi paramat
17:28 srifqi        hi paramat
17:30 paramat       wow, reading logs, this channel has been on-topic today, amazing
17:30 tenplus1      :P
17:34 srifqi        tenplus1, nvm, I forgot to modify an if statement. :P
17:34 tenplus1      lol
17:34 rubenwardy    paramat, lol
17:34 tenplus1      o/ ruben
17:34 rubenwardy    o/
17:35 rubenwardy    how's everyone?
17:35 srifqi        paramat, I'm still working on the noise params with flags setting.
17:35 srifqi        rubenwardy, I'm fine.
17:36 tenplus1      For anyone using them, MObs Redo API and Lucky Blocks has been updated
17:36 kaeza         srifqi, I'd guess you have some syntax error in your form making the parser ignore the rest
17:36 kaeza         srifqi, can you `print` your form and pastebin it?
17:36 tenplus1      also... https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6396 yay! :) we need 'dis
17:37 srifqi        Probably. But seems like for my case, it just my algorithm, not Minetest's.
17:40 tenplus1      wb raven
17:41 Megaf         Anyone here with a Skylake CPU and windows to try my build when it finishes building?
17:41 Megaf         build of minetest
17:42 srifqi        Have Windows 10, but what is Skylake?
17:42 tenplus1      intel cpu
17:43 paramat       srifqi i really appreciate it, and i'm so sorry about disapproving your long running PR
17:43 rubenwardy    tenplus1 :D
17:44 srifqi        paramat, nvm, that's two years ago. This one is better. :)
17:44 tenplus1      ?
17:44 Megaf         It has to be an intel Skylake because I optimized it for Skylake, I dont know if it will run on other CPUs
17:44 Megaf         These are Intel Skylake CPUs http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/37572/Skylake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)
17:45 * tenplus1    currently has THIS bad boy; http://ark.intel.com/products/49490/Intel-Atom-Processor-D525-1M-Cache-1_80-GHz
17:46 rubenwardy    lol
17:46 tenplus1      .. and this running on a separate desktop where I gotta fix a cscale issue with the processor to get it working: http://ark.intel.com/products/78868/Intel-Pentium-Processor-J2900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_67-GHz
17:47 Megaf         my badboy products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-E-Series-Processors/AMD-E1-Series-APU-for-Laptops/E1-6010-with-Radeonâ„¢-R2-Graphics/94
17:47 kaeza         rubenwardy, req: add which node (pos?) caused death to `node_damage`
17:47 rubenwardy    kaeza, that's hard
17:47 rubenwardy    well
17:47 rubenwardy    not that hard
17:47 Megaf         tenplus1, I have the AMD version of your CPU, but with half the threads
17:47 rubenwardy    the code sums the node_damage of all the nodes around it
17:47 kaeza         ah
17:48 tenplus1      if the engine checks the node and issues damaage it'll know the name to pass as cuase
17:48 rubenwardy    you could put the most damaging node I guess
17:48 tenplus1      I may get an AMD processor next time around, they seem to have less issues than intel right now
17:48 kaeza         anything works
17:48 rubenwardy    I thought about this, but decided that   player:get_pos() was close enough
17:48 kaeza         the idea is being able to distinguish between e.g. acid/lava/etc
17:49 kaeza         well, true
17:49 rubenwardy    true
17:49 tenplus1      is this for that pull request, or a mod in general ?
17:49 rubenwardy    hmmm
17:49 rubenwardy    it makes for a nicer API, so I'll look into it
17:50 Megaf         tenplus1, my CPU beats your, http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Atom-D525-vs-AMD-E1-6010
17:50 kaeza         override_node("air", { damage_per_second=1 })
17:50 Megaf         clearly Intel paid for 3D mark to win tho
17:50 tenplus1      lol, but I have nvidia ion v2 gfx... muhahahaha
17:51 rubenwardy    kaeza, this is the code btw: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/blob/3df2a75315ff4c6f205133d39364de237d34a796/src/content_sao.cpp#L952
17:51 rubenwardy    it's not even a for loop, which would be nice
17:51 tenplus1      hi DS
17:52 DS-minetest   hi
17:52 Megaf         tenplus1, both of our CPUs suck
17:52 tenplus1      ehehe but they work
17:52 Megaf         srifqi, what CPU do you have?
17:52 kaeza         uh, it also doesn't respect player collision box? (was that added?)
17:53 Megaf         N2840
17:53 srifqi        Megaf, Intel
17:53 rubenwardy    kaeza, doesn't seem like it does
17:53 Megaf         srifqi, you have an Intel Celeron N2840 at 2.16 GHz
17:53 kaeza         >v3s16 p3 = floatToInt(m_base_position + v3f(0, BS*1.6, 0), BS);
17:53 Megaf         running windows 10 Home
17:53 srifqi        Megaf, srifqi Intel
17:53 kaeza         nope, hardcoded 1.6
17:54 srifqi        ^^ sorry, wrong message.
17:54 Megaf         It's a Bay Trail, not Skylake =/
17:54 tenplus1      bay trail running win10... do you notice any freezes or lock ups ?
17:55 * rubenwardy  has an i5 @ 2.6GHz  5200U
17:56 Megaf         rubenwardy, that's a Broadwell
17:56 rubenwardy    yeah
17:57 Megaf         I wonder if my build would run on Broadwell and Bay Trails
17:57 Megaf         Almost sure it wouldn't on an Atom
17:57 * tenplus1    chooses processors based on 65watts or below system use
17:59 srifqi        Skylake has 12 cores? o_0
17:59 Megaf         some, maybe
18:00 srifqi        "make -j12" .-.
18:00 Megaf         22, becuase 22 threads
18:00 tenplus1      'd love to try one of the ARM boards
18:00 tenplus1      hi lisac
18:01 lisac         hey ten
18:01 Megaf         I want to try this puppy http://products.amd.com/en-us/search/CPU/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2-Threadripper/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2-Threadripper-1950X/177
18:02 Megaf         16 cores, 32 threads, up to 4 GHz
18:02 tenplus1      ooh I've seen the youtube videos on that one... amazing specs... even Alienware has a gaming rigg using it
18:02 tenplus1      kicks intel core i9's outta the water
18:03 Megaf         4 memory channels man
18:03 Megaf         it's Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4 all over again
18:03 Megaf         Intel stuck in time with overpriced product and AMD inovating
18:04 tenplus1      that's the problem, intel ask too much for the cpu's instead of setting a good price and relying more on bulk sales
18:05 * DS-minetest has a Pentium 4 Intel with 3.2 GHz
18:05 rdococ        ugh
18:05 rdococ        why internet, why
18:05 rubenwardy    > £741
18:06 rdococ        why intel why
18:06 tenplus1      lol
18:06 srifqi        DS-minetest, how could? My computer uses Pentium 4 but not reaching 3 GHz.
18:07 DS-minetest   umm, idk
18:07 srifqi        overclocking? (o_O)
18:08 DS-minetest   Family, model, stepping is 15, 6, 4
18:08 Megaf         DS-minetest, does Minetest runs well there?
18:09 Megaf         are you running windows?
18:09 DS-minetest   no, linux
18:09 Megaf         I can make a build of Minetest for your CPU,
18:09 DS-minetest   i can
18:09 DS-minetest   but it takes long…
18:10 Megaf         what distro do you use?
18:10 DS-minetest   lubuntu zesty
18:10 tenplus1      nice
18:13 srifqi        lol, same as mine, lubuntu, too. But one RAM died, so only one 256 MB RAM. It still can run.
18:13 tenplus1      that's a little light on resources
18:13 srifqi        It even can still play games. .-. But not 3D, because of the video driver.
18:14 paramat       remember don't let this offtopic go on too long please, there is a channel for long offtopic discussions
18:14 srifqi        3D games play so laggy.
18:14 srifqi        Which channel?
18:16 Megaf         #Minetest-Chat and #Minetest-OffTopic
18:16 Megaf         both dead
18:16 Megaf         I prefer #Minetest-Chat because it was created by me
18:16 Megaf         paramat, man, hub is offtopic
18:17 Megaf         paramat, official is #Minetest ///
18:19 Megaf         well, I said, both channel dead
18:19 Megaf         because people off topic here,
18:19 Megaf         because official is #Minetest
18:19 Megaf         IMHO
18:19 DS-minetest   i think, this may be my processor: https://ark.intel.com/products/27501/Intel-Pentium-4-Processor-supporting-HT-Technology-3_20-GHz-512K-Cache-800-MHz-FSB
18:20 tenplus1      not bad
18:20 Megaf         and you are on 32 bit :S
18:23 tenplus1      https://www.aliexpress.com/item/UK-Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-Game-Kit-2-Game-Controller-32G-SD-Card-Case-3A/32826692571.html
18:24 Megaf         we are talking about Raspberry Pi at #RaspberryPi Yes, really!
18:25 paramat       hub isn't an offtopic channel, restrained offtopic is allowed though. #minetest is for chit-chat, offtopic and mindless spamming
18:25 paramat       hub rules http://hub.minetest.net/info
18:26 paramat       we're very lenient about offtopic though, but the amount has become a problem recently
18:26 tenplus1      it opens the room to ideas and eventually ideas about minetest :)
18:28 paramat       doughnut talk is allowed here
18:29 tenplus1      I would bloody well hope so :P
18:29 paramat       nah, long computer-geek conversations should not be here
18:30 * Megaf       could /ban paramat and everyone who doesnt like this channel the way it is
18:31 * Megaf       hides
18:31 RoaryTiger    I'm safe now
18:32 kaeza         potato
18:33 paramat       important dev information is often posted here so huge amounts of casual offtopic is a problem when reading logs, the reason #minetest is for chit-chat is so we don't waste 10mins a day scrolling through offtopic when scanning logs for important information
18:34 Krock         how about not posting important information here?
18:34 Krock         for something we have -dev
18:35 rubenwardy    I read the logs as there are sometimes interesting suggestions in here
18:35 rubenwardy    and mentions project
18:35 rubenwardy    *of projects
18:35 paramat       importantly though, it's a request for relaxed discussion with a little restraint, instead of no restraint, we're not strict here
18:38 kaeza         chat suddenly died
18:39 Krock         until kaeza appeared to revive it
18:39 kaeza         it's a zombie now?
18:39 Krock         well, technically.. nah.
18:40 paramat       Krock important MT discussion that is not strictly dev happens here a lot. it makes no sense to suggest MT talk should move out of this channel instead of suggesting offtopic is restrained
18:41 paramat       but please don't get all uptight, relax, just please have a little restraint
18:41 tenplus1      the whole point of -hub is a laid back channel where ideas form among normal talk
18:42 paramat       tenplus it's focus is MT
18:42 paramat       see info page
18:42 tenplus1      o.O
18:43 Krock         that's not exactly what I meant. If there's important dev information to share, then is the dev channel definitely a better option. However, it may be a parallel discussion - with the difference that we've got more player feedbacks here
18:43 DS-minetest   hm, it looks like overriding nodes after load destroys the ability to connect with connected nodeboxes
18:43 tenplus1      the room does what it says on the tin
18:43 paramat       "Please keep offtopic discussions short (under 50 lines)." we don't even enforce that, it's just to stop excessive offtopic
18:44 Krock         DS-minetest, overriding nodes after loading is not intended and won't work in almost all cases
18:45 DS-minetest   is rawsetting something in minetest.registered_nodes after load bad?
18:45 paramat       important MT discussion can often be unsuitable for dev channel, and some find that channel too strict
18:46 DS-minetest   rawsetting a custom field
18:47 Krock         DS-minetest, it won't be synced with the core anymore. Changing the drawtype, for example, won't do anything. But you can still override Lua functions or groups, that aren't used by the client
18:47 DS-minetest   ah, thanks
18:47 Krock         !next
18:47 ShadowBot     Another satisfied customer. Next!
18:55 paramat       it's possible to be relaxed but also have a little restraint, i don't know why people find that difficult. i talk offtopic here too but always feel i should not go on too long :]
19:02 rubenwardy    https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18434
19:02 rubenwardy    "Can I use a part of my github pages domain to host [a Minetest server]?"
19:02 rubenwardy    -.-
19:03 KaadmY        Wat no
19:04 rubenwardy    well, Minetest's protocol sucks
19:04 rubenwardy    we should have gone with a TCP one
19:04 rubenwardy    even better, HTTP
19:04 rubenwardy    then you could use github pages to host a server
19:04 IhrFussel     People who don't even understand how setting up a server works shouldn't even attempt it IMO
19:04 rubenwardy    ^
19:04 rubenwardy    well, meh
19:05 rubenwardy    it's good for anyone to be able to make a server
19:05 rubenwardy    but the sorts that don't understand/don't bother to won't make very stable or long term ones
19:05 IhrFussel     If his idea would work most people would've exploited it by now
19:07 IhrFussel     rubenwardy, inexperienced people only harm themselves when they set up a public server
19:07 tenplus1      many players want a server to be admin, in control... and they they make one and figure out it's a lot harder than it looks
19:16 tenplus1      nite folks
19:25 RoaryTiger    My built of Minetest 0.4.17 for Skylake CPUs if you want to test. https://github.com/Megaf/Minetest-Light/releases/tag/0.4.17
19:25 Megaf         It's the very same code of Minetest, nothing was changed at all
19:25 rubenwardy    nice
19:25 rubenwardy    > tag 0.4.17
19:27 Megaf         I am very interested in knowing if it runs at all in any non Skylake CPU
19:27 Megaf         and how well it runs comparing to lets say, sfan5's build
19:27 rubenwardy    are there any objects to using stable-0.4 as a 0.4.17-dev branch?
19:28 rubenwardy    it'll have bug fixes backported, and no new features
19:28 rubenwardy    the alternative is dev-0.4
19:28 rubenwardy    which I prefer, but nerzhul is against
19:28 Megaf         I have no idea why my build is 0.4.17 actually
19:28 sfan5         Megaf: depends on whether gcc decided to use skylake-exclusive features, also it probably runs similarily as all the libraries are still compiled for "generic"
19:28 sfan5         rubenwardy: what kind of development is there to do for 0.4.17?
19:28 Megaf         This is sfan's build by the way http://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/win64/minetest-0.4.16-win64.7z
19:29 rubenwardy    back porting bug fixes
19:29 rubenwardy    traditionally stable-0.4 has pointed to the last 0.4 release
19:29 Megaf         sfan5, my next step if this build runs is rebuilding the libs too
19:29 rubenwardy    tbh, I don't mind it being used for 0.4.17-dev that much
19:29 Megaf         at least irrlicht
19:29 Megaf         lua is already built for Skylake
19:30 sfan5         rubenwardy: well those can be collected in a list, backported at once and then pushed
19:30 sfan5         you don't use luajit, Megaf?
19:30 rubenwardy    sfan5, stable-0.4 is already broken btw
19:30 sfan5         i know
19:31 rubenwardy    so should we revert the bump to 0.4.17 or fix it so it says 0.4.17-dev?
19:31 rubenwardy    and if it's reverted, should there be a dev-0.4
19:31 sfan5         idk keep it
19:32 rubenwardy    ok, I'll just fix it then as it'll be less controversial
19:32 Krock         just set the DEVELOPMENT_BUILD variable to true?
19:32 rubenwardy    yup
19:34 Calinou       Megaf: I have a Skylake CPU, so I could run that build :D
19:34 Megaf         sfan5, Not in this build, since I wanted Lua to be compiled for Skylake too
19:34 Megaf         and test the normal Lua
19:34 Megaf         Calinou, so please :)
19:35 Megaf         It has no LevelDB, LuaJIT nor Gettext by the way
19:36 Calinou       also, my mother is finally going to use a "new" PC starting from tomorrow
19:36 Calinou       my blood pressure will lower a lot while I have to perform maintenance tasks on it
19:36 Calinou       she's going from a low-end dual-core AMD CPU from 2010 or so, 4 GB of RAM, a GeForce 9200 GT and a very noisy PC
19:37 Calinou       to an i7-2600K, 8 GB of RAM, a 256 GB Samsung 840 PRO SSD, a very quiet PC
19:37 Calinou       there's no dedicated GPU, but the IGP is enough to drive a 1920×1080 desktop (she only does office work/web browsing)
19:37 Calinou       also, Windows 7 to Windows 10 :P
19:37 Calinou       my dad is going to switch PCs soon, too
19:37 Calinou       (he's on a 2008 iMac right now, it's extremely slow)
19:38 Megaf         Calinou, That's great news
19:38 Megaf         now test my build, will ya?
19:40 Calinou       it works :)
19:40 Calinou       created a world
19:41 Megaf         Oh my
19:42 Megaf         Calinou, any difference in FPS compared to other builds?
19:43 Calinou       is it a MSVC or MinGW build?
19:43 rubenwardy    rdococ, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/41b7823057bdaddd760f932dce802719301c3a0f
19:44 Calinou       Megaf: I think it performs the same
19:44 Calinou       as the official 0.4.16 build I have
19:44 Megaf         Calinou, MinGW
19:45 nerzhul       rubenwardy, i'm okay for backporting fixed to stable-0.4, just open PR
19:54 Calinou       https://media.hugo.pro/2017-09-09_21-52-37.mp4
19:55 Calinou       player movement on my server, with 15 Hz server step
19:55 Calinou       looks quite good, although I wish we had yaw interpolation, and a way to display pitch :(
19:57 Megaf         Calinou, define 15Hz server step
19:57 Krock         1/15s
19:57 Calinou       `dedicated_server_step = 0.0667` in minetest.conf
19:57 Megaf         ah
19:57 Megaf         my server was 0.05 for around 3 years
19:57 Krock         tried 0.01 yet?
19:57 Megaf         and at times I used 0.02
19:58 Calinou       ah, yeah, I remember a guy running 0.02
19:58 Megaf         just in the last 10 monts I put in 0.1 because a bug in bees mod
19:58 Calinou       it wasn't you, though
19:58 Calinou       Krock: heh
19:58 sfan5         tfw minetest servers have less "ticks" than cs demos
19:58 Calinou       Megaf: I can try 0.05
19:58 Calinou       sfan5: even Minecraft has 20 Hz :(
19:58 Calinou       id Tech 3 games usually are 20 Hz
19:58 Calinou       although Quake Live and Unvanquished are 40 Hz
19:58 Megaf         and at the time I didnt know 1/5 I know today a bout optimizng things
19:58 Calinou       (40 Hz should be a sane default for modern games)
19:58 Calinou       (or 30 Hz, in the worst case, eg. Xonotic)
19:59 sfan5         but muh 128 tick
19:59 sfan5         what does cube 2 have tho?
19:59 Calinou       25 Hz, IIRC
20:00 Calinou       hmm, I'll try 30 Hz on Minetest just for fun
20:00 Calinou       I don't run mob mods anyway
20:02 Megaf         ok, my server is not runnign with 0.02
20:02 Calinou       30 Hz looks awesome, however player movement isn't very "immediate" due to the SmoothTranslator
20:02 Calinou       which is too slow for 30 Hz
20:02 Calinou       (it's hardcoded, so you need to recompile your client to change it)
20:05 sfan5         couldn't it be made a setting?
20:06 Calinou       it could be :)
20:06 Calinou       I can send a PR if you want
20:06 Calinou       my server holds up well with 30 Hz, but I only tested with 2 players :P
20:23 IhrFussel     My server runs at 5 Hz and it's enough...most humans can't react in under 200 ms
20:24 IhrFussel     I understand why high precision games (like shooters) need more Hz though...Minetest isn't "high precision"
20:27 Calinou       >most humans can't react in under 200 ms
20:28 Calinou       they very much can
20:28 Calinou       try using a 2nd client (put two windows side-by-side) and move one of the clients around
20:28 Calinou       you will easily notice the difference between 5 and 10 Hz
20:28 Calinou       or even 10 Hz and 20 Hz
20:28 Calinou       or sometimes 20 Hz and 30 Hz
20:28 Calinou       also, PvP requires accuracy :P
20:31 rdococ        hi
20:34 Calinou       nice: https://kryptxy.github.io/torrench/
20:39 IhrFussel     Calinou, PvP in minetest is a joke and no most humans cannot react in under 200 ms...I'm talking about reaction time when you press a button for example
20:40 rubenwardy    Calinou, installed
20:40 Calinou       IhrFussel: Minetest CTF :P
20:40 rubenwardy    IhrFussel, human reaction time is 10MS, iirc
20:41 sfan5         > most humans cannot react in under 200 ms
20:41 sfan5         nice meme
20:41 rubenwardy    oh wait no
20:41 rubenwardy    "The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus."
20:41 rubenwardy    he's right
20:42 Calinou       latency should be decreased as much as possible, really
20:42 rubenwardy    well, the unreliable first result says he is
20:42 Calinou       and increasing player update rate decreases the perceived latency
20:42 rubenwardy    but you will be able to notice finer details
20:44 IhrFussel     "Humans see an image in just 13 milliseconds." << seeing an image doesn't allow to react to it right away
20:46 IhrFussel     I played a reaction game on my phone and I NEVER got below 250 ms ... there may be humans who react a little faster but those aren't the average joe
20:47 sfan5         you only have average people playing on your servers?
20:47 rubenwardy    basically everyone is average
20:47 IhrFussel     When I'm at a traffic light and it turns green nobody is able to walk right away
20:47 Calinou       I can :P
20:48 rubenwardy    I can
20:48 rubenwardy    because the lights go amber first
20:48 Calinou       lucky you :D
20:48 Calinou       oh, people might be interested by this, by the way: https://github.com/mcollina/autocannon
20:48 Calinou       it's a web load testing tool, using Node.js
20:48 Calinou       it works on Windows natively, unlike wrk
20:48 Calinou       seems to work quite well, even installed on my VPS
20:51 IhrFussel     Test your reaction here https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
20:52 lisac         rubenwardy, I found... a thing: http://www.minehacker.org/
20:53 rubenwardy    old news
20:54 sfan5         IhrFussel: my average is 248ms what now?
20:54 lisac         new news for me
20:54 lisac         hey fuck that guy
20:54 Krock         269 average
20:57 IhrFussel     254 see... so the 0.25 s is correct
20:58 sfan5         are you serious
21:01 IhrFussel     Yes I wanted to prove that you "cannot" react much faster than 200 ms ... so the only reason why shooters need higher Hz is because otherwise shots may miss on one screen while they hit on another
21:02 sfan5         you can't prove anything with a sample size of 1
21:02 Calinou       https://www.humanbenchmark.com/users/32135350
21:02 Calinou       hmm, I'm not that good
21:02 Calinou       67% percentile
21:03 Calinou       hey, the number in milliseconds is a power of 2, at least :D
21:03 IhrFussel     Of course you can prove something if several people confirm it
21:04 sfan5         how much is several?
21:05 IhrFussel     Quora posts, Wikipedia, other forum posts/articles + you guys who did the test
21:05 sfan5         well you should have said so from the beginning
21:06 IhrFussel     But doesn't matter now, MT simply doesn't *need* < 0.1 s ticks
21:06 Calinou       not bad, I did the number memory test
21:06 Calinou       13 digits, 94% percentile
21:06 Calinou       IhrFussel: any game does
21:06 Calinou       player movement, even in slower games, looks just horrible in 10 Hz
21:06 Calinou       play Quake 2 and you'll see why
21:06 Calinou       it also means the perceived latency of most actions will increase
21:09 Calinou       Verbal Memory, 101 points (96% percentile) :D
21:11 Calinou       and the last one, Visual Memory, 21016 points (79% percentile), although I kind of rushed it
21:12 Calinou       redid reaction test, 238 ms (80%)
21:12 Calinou       not sure how to get lower… I put the window on my TN monitor (which has lower input lag)
21:12 Calinou       but still, it's not that good :P
21:31 Megaf_        Calinou, sfan5, a friend just tried to run my build but her computer complained about this missing dlls, libwinthread-1.dll, ibwinpthread-1, libgcc_s_seh-1.dll, libstdc++-6.dll
21:31 sfan5         you need to copy those from the toolchain folder
21:32 Calinou       I have a MSYS2 installation already, that's probably why it worked out of the box on my PC
21:32 Calinou       and it's in my PATH :P
21:32 Calinou       Megaf_: http://www.msys2.org/ + http://styrene.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ = ♥
21:32 Calinou       I used it for building my Sauerbraten mod, it works just fine (with copying DLLs manually, not using the generated installer)
21:32 Calinou       in 64-bit :)
21:33 Megaf_        but but but
21:33 Megaf_        I dont use windows
21:33 IhrFussel     Is there any other server that displays the nametag as green while healing and red while taking damage + remaining HP?
21:34 Calinou       Megaf_: if you want to perform proper Windows testing and distribution, you gotta run Windows at some point :P
21:34 Calinou       IhrFussel: that would be nice
21:34 Calinou       there's the "gauges" mod for displaying other player health/breath (only visible at close distances)
21:35 Megaf         Calinou, negative, I get my users addicted to my software then force then to use Linux
21:36 Megaf_        and Im joking
21:36 IhrFussel     Calinou, I already implemented that on my server + custom HP system ... I was just curious if my server was unique with that feature
21:38 Calinou       IhrFussel: mind putting the mod on GitHub? :)
21:48 IhrFussel     The mods I code aren't standalone, they depend on each other in a big "network"
22:03 Calinou       aw :(
22:41 rubenwardy    > The mods I code aren't standalone, they depend on each other in a big "network"
22:41 rubenwardy    sounds like spaghetti
22:54 paramat       erm, reaction time to a visual stimulus is irrelevant to server step as step affects so many aspects. but if it helps your potato that's ok :]
22:56 * rdococ      eats some spaghetti code
22:56 Calinou       yeah, exactly
22:56 Calinou       I'm not sure if my server would hold 20 players in 30 Hz though :P
22:56 Calinou       15 Hz, probably
22:56 Calinou       but 30 Hz looks so smooth… :o
22:57 Calinou       this is a VPS, not a dedicated server, but still
22:57 rdococ        lol
23:05 Fixer         https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12573981
23:05 rdococ        one day, someone should create a chaotic Minetest server named "Discord", to throw people off :P
23:09 Fixer         *,...,*
23:10 Fixer         Calinou: nice, I'm not alone on msys2/mingw64
23:12 Calinou       rdococ: would it have memes at spawn?
23:13 Fixer         EVERYBODY MOVE YOUR BODY_
23:13 rubenwardy    argh
23:14 rubenwardy    advtrains is buggy
23:14 Fixer         rubenwardy: breaking
23:14 rubenwardy    he also includes the release.zip in the git repo
23:16 Fixer         [rare] My original and final just test (0.4.12) inventory: https://i.imgur.com/MZj82bd.png
23:20 Fixer         U P D A T I N G  M I N E T E S T
23:22 Calinou       P
23:22 Calinou       D
23:22 Calinou       A
23:22 Calinou       …okay, let's stop here
23:26 Fixer         Calinou: DELL
23:26 rdococ        U P D A T I N G
23:27 Fixer         my PDA is older than octacian *probably
23:28 rubenwardy    man, advtrains has messy code
23:28 Fixer         Calinou: F E E L  I T https://i.imgur.com/kJvxA1D.png
23:28 rubenwardy    so many publicly defined variabes
23:28 rubenwardy    also, some variable names: str, stra, t, a, return1, return2, return3
23:29 Fixer         rubenwardy: fuckyou1, fuckyou2, fuckyou3, variable1, variable2, cat1, cat2
23:30 Fixer         Calinou: can you feel it? https://i.imgur.com/TvkchIM.png
23:30 Megaf_        my next build will be built with -O2 -mfpmath=both -march=nocona -mtune=generic
23:30 Fixer         notice cleaned up spawn by TNT, TNT easily destroy chests, but this seems to be a bug that was fixed few days ago o_O
23:31 Megaf_        this should make it compatible with any cpu newer than any 64 bit intel and amd cpus
23:31 Calinou       Fixer: "What will Minetest look like in 10 years from now?"
23:31 Calinou       ;)
23:31 Megaf_        and should produce a pretty stable code
23:31 Fixer         Calinou: I'M LIVING IN 3017
23:31 Fixer         Megaf_: have you benchmarked it?
23:31 Megaf_        I dont have windows
23:33 Fixer         Calinou: notice my tall building is right in center behind this protector tower, i miracoulously found a spot for just 1 protector right near spawn
23:33 Fixer         and grew to a big house
23:33 Megaf_        This builds Im building are for windows only Fixer
23:34 Fixer         I even had tree farm on top of the house
23:34 Fixer         also, living at spawn on jt is actually annoying
23:34 Fixer         because of those noclip assholes
23:36 Megaf_        and I dont have windows computer
23:37 Calinou       Personal Computer = PC, Windows Computer = WC
23:37 Calinou       :D
23:37 Fixer         Calinou: i hate protectors tbh... not mod itself, but hanging blocks everywhere... When I did heavy WE test on GC64 build, just removing protectors makes a big diff
23:37 Fixer         Calinou: true
23:37 Calinou       Fixer: yeah, I much prefer areas
23:37 Calinou       most Minecraft protection mods use an areas-like system
23:37 Calinou       and players tend to prefer them
23:37 Fixer         yeah
23:37 Fixer         golden shovel
23:37 Calinou       (an exception is PreciousStones, where gold blocks protect a 25×25×25 area)
23:38 Fixer         or towny
23:38 Fixer         i'm playing on beta 1.7.3 mp server with towny
23:38 Fixer         that is V I N T A G E
23:38 Fixer         towny is quite amazing for its time
23:38 Fixer         2011 version
23:38 Fixer         or little addons like /top is very handy
23:39 Calinou       I know a server with a Beta 1.6 map
23:39 Calinou       still online today
23:39 Fixer         mt does not have this
23:39 Megaf_        I need a nice lightweight OpenSource IDE....
23:39 Calinou       I took screenshots last week
23:39 Fixer         Calinou: there is Alpha server online
23:39 Megaf_        with git integration
23:39 Calinou       it still has my house (but it has been "overridden" with roads, so I can't enter it anymore)
23:39 Calinou       it still has the pixel arts I remember from August 2011
23:39 Calinou       Megaf_: not sure if that exists :/
23:39 Fixer         Calinou: what is the name of it?
23:39 Calinou       Geany doesn't have Git integration, IIRC
23:39 Calinou       Fixer: it's a private server
23:39 Fixer         ok
23:39 Calinou       if you're interested anyway, ##shadowempire
23:39 Fixer         i don't know this one
23:40 Calinou       note, nobody really plays on it anymore :P
23:40 Fixer         I prefer beta 1.7.3, it has some similarities to MT, very simple, people play on it, yes
23:40 Megaf_        geany-plugin-git-changebar - git change bar plugin for Geany
23:41 Megaf_        apt install geany geany-plugin-addons geany-plugin-ctags geany-plugin-debugger geany-plugin-devhelp geany-plugin-doc geany-plugin-git-changebar geany-plugin-lua geany-plugin-markdown geany-plugins
23:41 Megaf_        this should give me a nice GEany
23:44 Calinou       https://media.hugo.pro/2017-09-10_01-42-29.gif
23:44 Calinou       this is what my Logitech G710+ keyboard registers when I put my entire arm on it :P
23:44 Calinou       (http://www.gigahype.com/nkey-rollover-test-page/)
23:45 Megaf_        lol
23:45 Megaf_        its fake, because its USB
23:45 Calinou       it supports partial key rollover, as you can see
23:45 Calinou       it's USB, but it's not too bad
23:45 Calinou       you can crouch-move diagonally, for example
23:45 Calinou       which isn't possible with low-end USB keyboards
23:46 Calinou       and it's good enough by far, in practice :P
23:46 Megaf_        yep
23:46 Megaf_        more than good enough
23:47 Megaf_        by the way, is NetBeans and Eclipse still active?
23:47 Calinou       not really (iIRC)
23:47 rubenwardy    jesus
23:47 rubenwardy    so many global variables
23:47 Fixer         WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?
23:48 Megaf_        hm, I could use XCode...
23:48 Calinou       just did a "casual" typing test
23:48 Calinou       https://img.10fastfingers.com/speedtests/generate_screenshot_result/1_125_638_624_14_93_3_1
23:48 Calinou       3 wrong words :'(
23:48 Calinou       but still, not a bad result :)
23:49 rubenwardy    I use either Atom or a form of IntelliJ (Android Studio, CLion, IntelliJ ultimate)
23:49 Megaf_        Calinou, man, I'm quite happy with my 8 Euro keyboard from Argos
23:49 rubenwardy    the latter isn't FOSS though
23:49 * Megaf_      clicks https://www.tecmint.com/best-linux-ide-editors-source-code-editors/
23:49 Calinou       I should be at the 7th of the daily top 20 of the advanced typing test, soon :)
23:49 Calinou       7th place*
23:50 Megaf_        I kinda want to try NetBeans again after maybe 10 years without using it
23:50 Calinou       I used NetBeans back in 2011
23:50 Calinou       it was ok, but not great, but I didn't know much about tooling back then
23:50 Calinou       (I was 13 :P)
23:51 Megaf_        Calinou, you 19 now?
23:52 Megaf_        My fingers told me you are 19
23:53 red-001       that might be the strangest expression I heard in a while
23:53 Megaf_        oh, hey red-001
23:53 Megaf_        I have to agree on that one