Time Nick Message 00:09 rdococ hi 00:32 rdococ hi benrob0329. 00:59 rdococ ... 01:00 rdococ people still interested in my status effects mod? 01:15 rdococ hi rubenwardy 02:39 tumeninodes just wanted to drop this here... gaming at 16k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toft6fMvByA hmmm, maybe time for a 2d mortgage :D 02:40 * tumeninodes has left the building... 06:41 rdococ yey 07:22 rdococ hm 07:22 rdococ Should I add potion bottles to the status effects mod, too, or a separate mod which has it as a dependency? 08:28 tenplus1 hi folks 08:28 rdococ hi 08:28 rdococ Should I add potion bottles to the status effects mod, too, or a separate mod which has it as a dependency? 08:28 tenplus1 o/ rdococ 08:28 tenplus1 use built-in vessels to craft potions 08:29 rdococ built-in vessels? 08:30 tenplus1 default game has vessels already in there (glass, bottle, steel bottle) 08:31 rdococ ahh 08:33 rdococ hm 08:34 rdococ tenplus1: what mod, though? 08:34 tenplus1 vessels 08:34 rdococ ah 08:35 rdococ lol, missed that 08:35 tenplus1 vessels:drinking_glass , vessels:glass_bottle , vessels:steel_bottle 08:39 nerzhul hey guyz, the mod channel API is now complete, it just need some security about flooding but it can be added later. It's not merged yet 08:39 rdococ mod channel? 08:40 tenplus1 hi nrz, how'd you mean mod channel api ? 08:40 rdococ can it make pizza ? 08:40 nerzhul tenplus1, yes 08:41 nerzhul rdococ, communication channel between CSM and SSM, and between CSM clients 08:41 tenplus1 what's it do ? 08:41 tenplus1 ohh 08:41 rdococ ah 08:41 nerzhul it works in broadcast mode, but SSM mods cannot talk to other SSM mods 08:41 nerzhul same for cleint 08:42 nerzhul if a local server mod send a message, other mods on the server doesn't receive the message, they doesn't need 08:42 rdococ > they doesn't need 08:42 nerzhul but you can add channels, and communicate on this channel with other subscriber 08:43 tenplus1 like global vars ? 08:44 nerzhul example usage, you play with a friend, on another PC, you have a mod to detect mobs around you, the two players, when a new mob is detected in one computer, a message is sent to a communication channel and the other player receive the message and show a message in chat containing mob type and coordiante to fight 08:44 nerzhul it's pure CSM usage 08:44 nerzhul no serveer mod, just communication between the two CSM mods using server 08:45 tenplus1 hrm, sounds com-licatec 08:45 tenplus1 *complicated 08:45 nerzhul non 08:45 nerzhul no 08:45 nerzhul it's just limited by imagination 08:45 nerzhul it's used in all popular RPG 08:45 nerzhul it permits to synchronize boss states, send notifications or player positions in PVP areas, etc 08:46 tenplus1 would have to see it in use 08:46 rdococ makes sense, I guess 08:47 nerzhul yes, it will be a new practice, that + the Hud CSM PR merged permits to really enhance CSM experience without involving the server 08:47 nerzhul another controversial case 08:47 tenplus1 so long as it doesnt promote cheating in csm 08:47 rdococ controversy! my favorite 08:48 nerzhul oredetect mod subscribe to communication channel and when oredetect finds diamond, a notification is sent to subsribers and they receive a chat notification about diamond position :D 08:48 nerzhul i know oredetect is controversial but it's more representative of the current CSM mod channels possibilities :p 08:48 nerzhul all of that is done without involving server, except for routing messages 08:49 rdococ lol 08:56 nerzhul i added a scheme https://github.com/nerzhul/minetest/blob/fee2380dfb61c73a1289c5f8792d42a91ea4699e/doc/channel%20mods.png 08:56 nerzhul it will be pushed to doc/ when merged 08:56 nerzhul https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nerzhul/minetest/fee2380dfb61c73a1289c5f8792d42a91ea4699e/doc/channel%20mods.png 09:02 tenplus1 hi fussel 09:02 IhrFussel Hello guys, can someone explain to me the definition of the parameters in this short form for register_spawn() in mobs redo? mobs:register_spawn("zombies:crawler", {"default:gravel","default:dirt_with_grass"},15, 0, 70, 10, 14000, false) 09:03 tenplus1 https://github.com/tenplus1/mobs_redo/blob/master/api.txt#L161 09:04 tenplus1 api.txt file explaining parameters 09:04 IhrFussel There is also another format to write it (option = value) and I understand it but I have no clue about this shorthand form 09:04 tenplus1 mobs:register_spawn was the original simple_mobs function which then moved to mobs:spawn_specific and finally onto the final mobs:spawn for simplicity 09:05 tenplus1 mobs:register_spawn(name, nodes, max_light, min_light, chance, active_object_count, max_height, day_toggle) 09:07 IhrFussel What about neighbors? Those don't seem to exist in that example o.o 09:07 tenplus1 that's where spawn_specific came into it, to allow more accurate spawning 09:08 IhrFussel Will the API just skip neighbors if there is no 2nd table after nodes? 09:09 tenplus1 if neighbors is set to nil then yes, it is ignored 09:09 IhrFussel I see no nil in the definition above o.o 09:09 tenplus1 for register_spawn the default neighbors is "air" 09:10 tenplus1 but like I said, that's an old function from simple_mobs days 09:10 IhrFussel Ah so it always adds air as neighbors when not specified alright thanks 09:10 tenplus1 if you want to spawn a mob then use the newer mobs:spawn(def) 09:10 rdococ hm 09:10 tenplus1 it's a lot easier to use and read in code 09:10 rdococ currently, my status effects mod adds the function minetest.register_effect 09:11 IhrFussel I probably don't use the newest mobs redo version so register_spawn() still works 09:11 tenplus1 how old is your version of mobs redo as mobs:spawn was added last year 09:12 tenplus1 i look forward toreading your code rdococ 09:12 IhrFussel From a few months ago I think...so register_spawn() is just a legacy function? 09:12 tenplus1 yes, register_spawn is the original simple_mobs function from 4 years ago :P 09:12 tenplus1 mobs redo has since added more specific spawning functions... so please use mobs:spawn() if possible 09:12 IhrFussel But all mobs mods I have use it 09:13 tenplus1 it'll stillwork, but as I said, you get a more specific mob spawning check with the new one 09:14 tenplus1 https://github.com/tenplus1/mobs_animal/blob/master/warthog.lua#L65 09:14 IhrFussel Are there any differences (apart from better options/readability)? 09:14 tenplus1 you get access to more features 09:14 rdococ hm 09:14 IhrFussel But no performance gains? 09:14 rdococ should I change minetest.*_effect to effects:*? 09:14 rdococ or effects.*, maybe 09:15 tenplus1 rdococ: whichever is easier to read and remember :) 09:15 rdococ well, there's mobs:spawn(), so idk 09:15 IhrFussel mods generally use modname.tablename 09:15 IhrFussel Or function name 09:16 IhrFussel Not even sure if you can simply add a minetest.* function in a mod o.o 09:17 tenplus1 fussel, you could say using it gives better performance as spawning a cow on grass next to air looks up many nodes, whereas spawning same cow on grass next to group:grass has to look up less 09:17 tenplus1 it all depends on the spawning definition 09:17 rdococ IhrFussel: yeah, you can modify the minetest table 09:18 IhrFussel tenplus1, oh so neighbors improves the function like ABMs? 09:18 IhrFussel I guess it is an ABM 09:20 tenplus1 all the mob spawning functions in the end creates an abm to do the job, so yes.. it helps improve the overall abm 09:20 IhrFussel tenplus1, when is "night" per mobs definition? 09:22 tenplus1 minetest.get_timeofday() * 24000 = 24 hour time... day time is >4500 and <19500 09:22 tenplus1 basically when dun first comes over the horizon to when it goes down on the other side :) 09:23 IhrFussel OK so night starts at 19:50 09:23 tenplus1 yeah, as soon as sun is gone... 09:23 IhrFussel I need that exact time cause my server has events based on ingame time 09:24 tenplus1 I pasted exact time above 09:24 tenplus1 minetest.get_timeofday() * 24000 = 24 hour time... day time is >4500 and <19500 09:24 IhrFussel I know, I just told the reason why I need the exact time :P 09:24 tenplus1 ah 09:25 IhrFussel So if I set day_toggle = false I can ommit min/max_light correct? 09:25 tenplus1 it still checks for min/max light even then... just incase mob spawns right under a torch or something if it's meant to be nighttime only 09:25 tenplus1 or in a shadow under cliff if it's meant to be daytime only 09:26 IhrFussel What's the max light at night in MT? Without light sources 09:26 tenplus1 0 09:26 IhrFussel Really? That's the max? o.o 09:26 tenplus1 at night with no light around, it should return 0 09:26 tenplus1 lemmie check 09:26 IhrFussel I thought 0 would be black 09:28 IhrFussel So normal daytime is 14?? 09:28 IhrFussel With no shadows* 09:28 tenplus1 sorry, my bad... it's 2 09:28 rdococ correct me if I'm wrong, but night time on the surface is brighter than in an enclosed cave with no light sources 09:28 tenplus1 2 in the open air and 0 underground 09:29 IhrFussel Thanks =) so if I set it to 3 it will still only trigger in the dark 09:29 rdococ of course, when you get high enough, minetest seems to stop trying to calculate shadows 09:30 tenplus1 so at night time in the open air, min_light = 2 09:31 IhrFussel min_light = 0, max_light = 3, < should work too or not? 09:31 tenplus1 yeah that'd work fine 09:31 tenplus1 hi Megaf 09:32 tenplus1 if you want mobs to spawn in absolute darkness then 0... in open air 2 09:32 tenplus1 so many settings for specific spawning :P 09:32 IhrFussel I want them top spawn in everything that's considered dark 09:32 Megaf Hello there 09:33 IhrFussel But I don't know how high darkness can get...I guess 5 is maybe still dark? 09:33 tenplus1 depends on mob tolerance 09:33 tenplus1 if it is damaged by light anything below mid-point is fine... 7 09:33 rdococ eks....PERIMENT! 09:33 tenplus1 ? 09:33 IhrFussel So 7 means "getting bright"? 09:34 tenplus1 light levels 0 - 14... 7 is midway so anything that hates light prolly wouldnt tolerate anything above that 09:34 tenplus1 and too high would hurt 09:35 rdococ I modified my status effects mod to use a separate table, effects. 09:35 rdococ e.g. effects.apply(minetest.get_player_by_name("IhrFussel"), "fast", 30) 09:35 tenplus1 kewl 09:35 IhrFussel Yes but in terms of engine daytime...I wonder at what level the sky reaches light level 7 09:36 tenplus1 lemmie check 09:36 IhrFussel At what time* 09:36 rdococ I like how new worlds start at sunrise now :P 09:37 tenplus1 testing 09:37 rdococ Light levels are in the node of the beholder. 09:37 IhrFussel rdococ, someone complained about it, cause they said they set the time_speed to 0 so it gets never bright or something like that 09:37 rdococ :P 09:37 rdococ IhrFussel: why don't they just /time? that's what I do. 09:38 tenplus1 exactly at 5320 does light level reach 7 on surface 09:38 IhrFussel Tell them (the complaint is on github) 09:38 rdococ lol, srs? 09:41 IhrFussel tenplus1, light_damage is affected by mob_difficulty or not? 09:42 tenplus1 and at night time @ 18579 it hits 7 light also 09:42 IhrFussel I mean difficulty 2.0 with damage = 2 means damage = 4 09:42 IhrFussel Also thanks for looking it up =) 09:42 rdococ wait 09:42 tenplus1 difficulty only affects mob health and damage done to player 09:42 tenplus1 if it dies in the light then that part will be same... 09:42 tenplus1 will just take longer with higher health 09:43 rdococ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1997 09:43 IhrFussel Ok I see :P 09:44 tenplus1 also I've added an immune_to table that lets you mess with players by having certain items inflict specific damage or heal a mob when struck 09:44 tenplus1 e.g. oerkki can be healed by 10 health when hit by gold lumps, wooden swords deal 0 damage 09:48 rdococ yey 09:50 IhrFussel Sounds cool :) tenplus1 my zombies take no damage from light...it's 09:00 now and I set light-damage to 2 09:50 tenplus1 I like the idea of a god killer sword (yeah, wonder woman reference) that hurts normal players like diamond sword, but 1-hit -kills mob bosses in 1 hit 09:50 Calinou hi 09:50 IhrFussel Does day_toggle false disable light damage? 09:50 tenplus1 light damage in mobs is >12 09:51 tenplus1 hi Cal 09:51 IhrFussel Ohh 09:51 tenplus1 direct light only 09:52 IhrFussel I surrounded them with meselamps...still no damage 09:52 tenplus1 light damage only occurs in natural daylight, so mob has to be above ground during daytime hours in a light level >12 09:52 tenplus1 natural light is the key 09:52 tenplus1 :P 09:53 tenplus1 I *could* change it so that normal light affects them to if bright enough ? 09:54 tenplus1 what does everyone think ? 09:55 IhrFussel Makes sense to me...it#s no real difference between sunlight and lightbulbs (except for the UV) 09:55 tenplus1 so mob light damage is changed to any light in general > 12 09:56 IhrFussel That will also make sure monsters die in populated areas where players build stuff and don't want to be disturbed by monsters 09:58 tenplus1 k, git page updated 10:02 rdococ but UV makes sense to damage mobs, especially undead ones 10:02 IhrFussel tenplus1, also I find it funny that you can tame warthogs BUT if you attack a monster they will attack their owner =P 10:03 rdococ lol 10:03 tenplus1 wait, they do ? checking 10:04 IhrFussel At least in my version they do 10:05 tenplus1 nope, in my version if I have a tamed hog and hit a spuider, the hog goes after the spider 10:06 IhrFussel Any PR for that I can apply to my code? 10:06 tenplus1 hi Krock 10:06 Krock hi tenplus1 10:07 Megaf I need to vacuum my DB... 10:08 tenplus1 hi Fixer 10:09 Krock If you clean a vacuum cleaner, are you a vacuum cleaner? 10:09 Krock /music plays 10:10 tenplus1 lol 10:10 rdococ lol 10:11 nerzhul hi Krock :) 10:11 Fixer yes 10:11 Fixer hi 10:11 rdococ Lately, I've realized that 'you are what you eat'. Because I've always wanted to be Batman, I ate him. I still don't feel like Batman, though. 10:11 rdococ :P 10:14 * tenplus1 is donut man 10:17 * rdococ eats tenplus1 10:17 * rdococ is donut man 10:17 * tenplus1 is eated 10:17 rdococ eated? 10:17 tenplus1 lol 10:17 * rdococ watches a cup of water get drinked 10:20 rdococ https://github.com/rdococ/effects 10:20 Megaf Whats does that do? 10:21 rdococ it's recently been through a fairly large overhaul (replaced minetest.*_effect with effects.*), so it might be buggy 10:21 rdococ had to use the find and replace feature 10:21 rdococ which I do fairly often anyway :P 10:21 rdococ Megaf: status effects 10:21 rdococ fast, slow, heavy, light, float, etc. 10:23 Megaf man I hate most of the modern music. Melody is just messed up and it's so loud very almost non dynamic range. 10:23 tenplus1 +1 10:23 rdococ what would be cool is realistic night vision 10:24 rdococ so if you've been out in the sun, and go into a cave, everything is pitch black... until your eyes adjust 10:24 rdococ that might work as a csm but idk for sure 10:24 tenplus1 would have to change clientside so that all nodes rendered could be in full brightness 10:27 rdococ I also like the idea of being able to place the sun and the moon where-ever 10:28 Megaf Science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WI6_G1T9KQ (Street Fighter Science) (Sonic Boom Science) 10:28 rdococ doing science to a video game is a bad idea tbh 10:29 tenplus1 nice effects 10:29 * tenplus1 floats around 10:29 rdococ video game logic and physics is completely incompatible with ours, even if it tries to emulate ours 10:29 * rdococ suddenly falls up 10:29 Megaf rdococ, subscribe to that channel and you shall change your mind 10:32 tenplus1 I kinda like the idea of water_source falling when no block beneath them 10:33 rdococ meh 10:33 rdococ we need new water physics 10:33 rdococ not super-ultra-realistic-water-pressure physics, but not minecraft water 10:33 tenplus1 having water spread out in all directions from source isnt too good... but... flowing out from source in a step by step / node by node way getting lower at each step is a good idea 11:03 rdococ lol 11:28 nerzhul rdococ, it sounds interesting and a good candidate for a core side support in a future release with propre client integration in a skill/spell API 11:30 tenplus1 mobs redo api updated with new on_spawn function in mob registry 11:31 Fixer very nice 11:36 tenplus1 hi caleb 11:36 tenplus1 bunny.lua has an example, depending where you spawn rabbit depends which texture it uses 11:36 CalebDavis hi ten 11:36 tenplus1 o/ 11:38 tenplus1 hi thomas 11:38 ThomasMonroe hi ten 11:44 tenplus1 hi cx384 11:44 cx384 hi tenplus1 :) 11:50 cx384 What is the best way to recompile minetest if I changed only one file? 11:53 Krock make -j4 11:53 nerzhul make -j750 11:53 Krock or: don't. (if you changed the Lua code) 11:54 cx384 ok thank you 11:55 Krock auto peer_removal_fct = [peer_id, &found](u16 p) { 11:55 Krock wtf 11:56 Krock ah. function definition within a function. seems to be C++11 11:56 nerzhul lambda 11:57 nerzhul it like a function definition yes, it's a std::function blah blah :p 11:57 nerzhul i don't use it generally, but here it's mandatory to use it :) 11:58 nerzhul i don't see real benefits to use lambda in most cases, but when you need an anonymous callback function on a list iteration (for example) it's nice to use them 11:59 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1884 -- closes lid now 11:59 nerzhul the [ ] is mandatory, it captures external attributes to send them to the function 12:00 nerzhul Krock, a little litterature about lambda http://www.cprogramming.com/c++11/c++11-lambda-closures.html 12:01 Krock I see. thanks. 12:07 CalebDavis is it possible to controll one bone via code and the rest via animation 12:09 tenplus1 hi ds 12:09 DS-minetest hi 12:10 DS-minetest 31 seconds, you were slow 12:10 tenplus1 lol, sorry DS, just pushed fix for https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1884 12:14 tenplus1 Krock: you can re-add the +1 approval :PPPP 12:19 Krock tested? 12:19 tenplus1 yes,w orks fine 12:20 tenplus1 hence the last minute nil checks added :P 12:23 ThomasMonroe ok so im trying to make a new mapgen, but the mountains and hills are somewhat pyramidal, why is that? 12:23 tenplus1 illuminati 12:23 Wayward_One lol 12:24 Wayward_One hi all :) 12:24 tenplus1 hi wayward 12:24 CalebDavis hi Wayward 12:24 Krock /o\ 12:26 Krock tenplus1, could you move the if not open_chests[pn] then return end check into chest_lid_close? this makes it failsafe when calling in a wrong place in the future 12:27 Krock i.e. it closes the lid if there's something to close instead of throwing an error 12:29 tenplus1 it already does that 12:29 tenplus1 but holdon, lemmie check 12:30 tenplus1 wouldnt that mess up the return and return true inside on_receive_fields 12:32 tenplus1 or does it matter if on_receive_fields returns true or not ? 12:32 Krock that only prevents the rest of the callbacks being called for this formspec event. never mind, let's keep it this way 12:34 Krock but there's the "return true" leftover from where you took the chest closing code 12:34 tenplus1 :) 12:35 nerzhul tenplus1, now i finished the mod channels (just some style cases) i think i will work on my secret project (not the NPC, i need to study various implementation and would use sofar approach with some mobs_redo ideas 12:36 tenplus1 time to enter the lab :P muhahahahahaha 12:36 nerzhul hehe 12:37 tenplus1 the on_spawn function I added just then lets you place bunny eggs and determine wether it's a snow/desert biome bunny or random 13:00 tenplus1 laters all o/ 13:22 ThomasMonroe ok so im trying to make a new mapgen, but the mountains and hills are somewhat pyramidal, why is that? 13:46 Krock Ooh.. these genious programmers again: https://i.redd.it/37mbebl3p8jz.png 13:47 Grandolf lol 13:54 nerzhul do i forget to link NPM post her ? 13:55 nerzhul just look at those winners NodeJS users https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/2049#issuecomment-230134212 14:13 Fixer fuck firefox 14:13 Fixer FUUCK YOU 14:13 DS-minetest what happened? 14:13 Fixer i had 60 background tabs opened, mem use was 800-2000 mb, now I've reduced it to 30, still this memory eating shit, what the fuck wrong with you firefox? 14:14 nerzhul it keeps it because it thinks you are silly and want you to rage 14:14 Fixer and this fucking lag 14:14 Fixer how fucking browser can lag on i3/i5/i7? seriously? fucking www-monkeys, i hope you eat your shit JS every morning 14:15 nerzhul i3/i5/i7 doesn't mean anything, you can have a i7 with 6 years old age it's just slow 14:15 Fixer no it is not 14:15 nerzhul and also ensure your don't have too many extensions/plugins 14:15 Fixer it is garbage WWW full of JS-shit that will be slow even on core i7 beowulf claster 14:15 nerzhul and having 60 backgrounds tabs is silly, you have pocket to store your pages :p 14:16 Fixer nerzhul: 60 background tabs, and only like 5 active of them, everything else is not even loaded from what I understand 14:16 Fixer nerzhul: firefox does not load tabs itself, you can have 60, but only 5 active are loaded into memory 14:17 Fixer still, fuck 1gb for few active tabs? are you kidding? 14:17 Fixer somewhere around firefox 3X it was much better, and then it went into ape shit 14:17 Fixer mem use skyrocketed 14:17 Jordach Fixer, chrome doesn't use much for me :^) 14:18 Fixer opening fucking youtube FF mem usage skyrockets to 2.3 GB, WTF!?!?!? (bug is opened btw) 14:18 nerzhul comparing FF &nchrome usage on different computers with differents tabs is just wrong 14:18 nerzhul are you using youtube with flash or not 14:19 nerzhul disable all plugins except ad-blocker 14:19 Fixer i can't even use ONE FUCKING FIREFOX TAB ONE 1GB WINDOWS XP MACHINE __ 14:19 Fixer to open ONE page 14:19 Fixer win xp used 100mb of ram itself 14:19 nerzhul i have 15 active tabs opened it takes 600 mb ram 14:19 Fixer is 900mb not enough for this crap? 14:19 nerzhul it depend how many pages you read on faceshit 14:20 Fixer also depends what pages are opened 14:20 nerzhul yeah 14:20 nerzhul some JS devs are shit 14:20 nerzhul windows xp is shit too 14:20 Fixer that was IRL example 14:21 nerzhul Windows XP is not real life, hopefuly :D 14:21 nerzhul else we will have many virus :D 14:21 Krock Fixer, Win XP used about 300 MiB, unless you really strip down everything to the most important 14:21 Fixer that shit can't open 1 website on computer with 1GB ram... one tab, Karl/Carl/whatever 14:21 Fixer nerzhul: it is 14:21 Krock if it uses less, virtual RAM might got used 14:21 Fixer nerzhul: XP is widely used 14:22 Fixer nerzhul: it is just example of IRL machine with 1gb ram that literally can't run ONE TAB in FIREFOX 14:22 Fixer it loads for minutes, mem usage tops, cpu usage tops 14:23 Fixer do i need Core i9 for web now? 14:23 Krock no, wait for i11 14:25 Krock Fixer, how about noscript? does it help a bit? 14:25 Fixer nerzhul: win7 64bit machine, firefox - 5tabs loaded (24 unloaded) - 600 mb usage, thats fresh start, when you start do something it skyrockets quickly to 1gb 14:25 Fixer Krock: yes, I have noscript, imagine how much more mem it will use with noscript disabled? 14:26 Fixer I have 8gb of ram, not a problem for me, BUT, if this shit with few tabs goes past 1GB and even lags... WTF 14:27 nerzhul Fixer, use a AMD CPU instead of Intel :D 14:27 nerzhul you use windows, it's the problem 14:27 Fixer i don't mind if you fucking eating my memory, but FUCK STOP LAGGING YOU POS 14:27 Fixer nerzhul: trololo 14:28 Fixer nerzhul: there was time when Firefox had pretty decent mem usage, it still lagged as hell, but now it is eating my mem and lags as fuck (there were some visible improvements not long ago though) 14:28 Krock i.e. pre-HTML5 14:30 Jordach you mean to say HTML5 requires JS to be useable and requires godly amounts of bloated crap? 14:30 Fixer i browsed the web on IE on WinNT4 machine with fuck knows what specs, today firefox with 1tab on 1GB ram machine with XP loads insanely slower compared to my times 14:30 Fixer Jordach: noscrip, fuck js, fuck telemetry, fuck ads 14:30 Krock Jordach, not direct in connection with JS but it surely needs more resources than without 14:30 Fixer t 14:31 Jordach Fixer, the problem is the JS frameworks 14:31 Jordach (no really) 14:31 Jordach they're all so bad and have such performance problems 14:31 Krock node_modules 14:31 Fixer here is interesting example of this WEB-JS cancer: https://weather.com 14:31 Krock been many times on r/ProgrammerHumor for being heavy 14:31 Jordach (who writes code on a fucking high end PC for end users with weaker machines) 14:32 Fixer Jordach: like everybody? 14:32 Fixer Jordach: and then normies with 400 usd craptops load that POS website 14:32 Fixer profit 14:33 Jordach Fixer, might have been a redditard with a ducky mech and high end PC claiming it's not much# 14:33 Jordach not forgetting the Senn HD 600/800 14:33 Jordach and DAC/AMP of choice 14:36 Jordach and they're also the same middle / upper class twats who then go: it's not hard to get a job / college (everything paid for by their parents) 14:41 nerzhul Krock, weather.com loads instanly on my FF 14:42 nerzhul and i'm on a shit i3 with 5 years old age at work 14:42 nerzhul with 13 tabs, Clion , Pycharm, irc, thunderbird with 15k mails opened and 4GB memory on the PC 14:42 nerzhul but i have a archlinux 14:42 Krock instant loading here too but half of the content isn't displayed due noscript 14:42 nerzhul maybe, i have ublock origin :p 15:43 Calinou hi 15:43 Calinou Fixer, the problem is the JS frameworks 15:43 Calinou today's JS frameworks perform well on desktop; mobile is another thing 15:48 Fixer said person with i7 and 64gb of ram, ssd and whatever 15:51 rdococ "This computer has 1 TB OF RAM!" 15:52 rubenwardy I got told a phone had 4GB of memory 15:52 rubenwardy turned out that was storage 15:52 rdococ lol 15:52 rubenwardy it had 512MB 15:52 rubenwardy stupid shop assistant 15:53 rubenwardy now I buy phones separately from contracts 15:57 sofar ^ 15:59 rdococ btw, did you try my status effects mod yet? 16:00 red-001 oh lol the guy that designed the anticheat went for the "I was just trolling" copout 16:00 red-001 anticheat mod* 16:04 rdococ lol 16:06 red-001 that's like the oldest trick in the book 16:07 Calinou Fixer: if you compare eg. Vue.js to vanilla JavaScript, the slowdown isn't huge 16:07 Calinou rubenwardy: buying phones on contract is stupid in France 16:07 Calinou :P 16:07 rdococ lol 16:07 benrob0329 Wouldn't that be an anti-anticheat mod? 16:08 rubenwardy pretty standard in the UK, Calinou 16:08 Calinou rnd is a special guy, I know him from another game since like 2010 16:08 rubenwardy basically everyone except tech-y people do it 16:08 Calinou he made a Sauerbraten map with weird tricks/glitches 16:08 Calinou :P 16:08 rdococ much confusion will occur if someone wants to create a vanilla extract mod :P 16:09 benrob0329 Also, I hate sites that need JS for basic functionality 16:09 Calinou "This all explains it - this kind of ignorant, fake expert, lazy attitude = "Trump 2020!" :)" 16:09 red-001 truly saying you where just trolling when you clearly weren't is the greatest troll 16:09 Calinou honestly, rnd's attitude is warn-worthy here 16:09 Calinou intentional trolling is definitely not permitted 16:09 rdococ rnd? 16:09 red-001 I somehow doubt he was trolling 16:09 red-001 I'm pretty sure this is just a cop-out 16:10 Calinou the guy who made the anticheat mod 16:10 rdococ meh. I think anticheat should only be enabled if the player doesn't have fly. 16:11 Fixer Firefox 57 drops support for all legacy add-ons, including Tab Mix Plus. From Firefox 57 onwards, Firefox will not install Tab Mix Plus. It is currently unclear when Tab Mix Plus as a WebExtension will be ready. 16:14 benrob0329 Fixer: it also requires PulseAudio 16:15 Fixer what you say? 16:15 red-001 https://i.imgur.com/7XYz9Fg.jpg 16:17 benrob0329 Fixer: basically no one wanted to maintain the Alsa backend, so rather than using something like OpenAL (like every other program in twenty friggen seventeen) they instead make Pulseaudio a hard dependency 16:18 Fixer benrob0329: i said nothing about pulseaudio, openal, or alsa 16:18 benrob0329 Mozilla: making unnecessary breakage since 199* 16:18 benrob0329 Fixer: it becomes a hard dep in 57 16:19 rubenwardy but muh progress 16:19 benrob0329 Like Pulse breaking my audio setup, and overcomplicating everything? 16:19 sofar I hate to poop your party, but I kinda like the features that PA brings 16:19 benrob0329 And constantly changing the audio levels?? 16:20 benrob0329 sofar: then use it, but it shouldn't be required 16:20 sofar so mozilla devs should be required to maintain 2 audio stacks? 16:20 sofar how is that logical? 16:20 Calinou rdococ: if you have fly but not noclip, it is possible to noclip using cheats 16:20 rdococ Calinou: true 16:21 benrob0329 No, they should use a standard audio lib instead of requireing a whole new server 16:21 rdococ Calinou: but I think stopping people without fly from flying is more of a priority 16:21 Calinou preventing noclipping is *very* important 16:21 Calinou people can break in anyone's house 16:21 Calinou they can escape fights during PvP, etc 16:21 Calinou it's a good thing it never was possible in Minecraft 16:22 benrob0329 My audio configuration is very simple, I do most things in hardware mixing 16:22 benrob0329 I don't want, nor do I need any extra audio levels to worry about fixing every 5 minutes 16:23 benrob0329 Nor do I need Pulse to pull another distort all input sound on me again while recording 16:23 Calinou not sure if OpenAL (Soft) is suited to everything 16:23 Calinou Godot doesn't use it, for example 16:23 Calinou also, I did have issues with PulseAudio changing the audio volumes randomly, but I longer have that issue 16:24 Calinou USB audio is still messy though… I bought an analog headset *because* of Linux and PulseAudio 16:24 Calinou but now I'm on Windows, heh 16:24 benrob0329 Pulse is good for some, and not others 16:24 benrob0329 that's why we have libraries that can use both 16:25 sofar too much choice isn't always better in the long run, there's a cost to it 16:25 sofar with almost every desktop env under linux using PA, there's really no reason to avoid it 16:25 sofar it's just economics 16:25 rubenwardy Megaf is aiming to do this to Minetest 16:25 rubenwardy well, his fork 16:25 rubenwardy remove a lot of the choice 16:25 sofar openal for minetest is fine btw 16:26 sofar it just has a single audio stream and you get positional audio and cross platform 16:26 rubenwardy true, he's removing db backends and like, I believe 16:26 benrob0329 sofar: I just stated reasons for avoiding it 16:26 sofar mozilla might just want different audio streams to actually go to a different output, for instance 16:26 sofar we do support imho too many obscure backends 16:27 sofar there's a good reason for it, but still 16:27 benrob0329 In a browser? That seems like a strange edge case to piss of a good chunk of your userbase for 16:27 sofar with sqlite and *sql backends now we can probably nuke leveldb and redis at some point 16:28 sofar benrob0329: you're a minority, and your demands are probably the most costly for them, so, economics... it's not personal 16:28 sofar if you really care you have a chance of doing the work yourself 16:29 sofar I mean, if PA support is horribly broken, sure, I'd complain loudly too 16:29 sofar everyone would 16:30 benrob0329 sofar: as I stated before, there ate libraries that have been around for years to solve this problem 16:30 Calinou how well does the PostgreSQL back-end perform in Minetest, compared to Redis? 16:30 Calinou we can nuke LevelDB though (after a 6-month notice or so) 16:30 benrob0329 Also your forgetting the many years of broken Pulse, but did distros pull it and build with alsa? Nope 16:30 Calinou (it's not built-in by default anyway) 16:31 Calinou benrob0329: Pulse's early issues are no longer a thing on even LTS distros, today :P 16:31 benrob0329 Is Pulse mostly fixed nowadays, sure. But its still broken in places and I won't deal with not knowing if my audio is fine or not 16:31 benrob0329 that's a level of pain I won't put up with 16:33 rdococ I like the idea of being able to move the sun and moon to any celestial position 16:33 rubenwardy but but Redis isn't a database 16:34 rdococ I'd also like to see local celestial body positioning overrides 16:34 rdococ so that a mod could make someone at Z=1000 see a differently positioned sun to someone at Z=-1000 16:35 sofar the whole sky object system could use an overhaul, but that doesn't make much sense 16:36 rdococ seasons, weird orbits, etc. would be cool, though 16:39 rubenwardy I'd prefer for particles to be fixed over that 16:40 rdococ eh, true 16:40 rubenwardy > weather without copious amounts of lag 16:40 benrob0329 rubenwardy: indeed 16:40 rdococ I saw a github issue about the sun and moon thing 16:40 rubenwardy I started doing it, but particles have sooo many features 16:43 rdococ hm 16:43 rdococ is there a way to remove a line of chat? 16:45 paramat hi Fixer please less swearing :] 16:48 rdococ yay, humanoid beings! 16:49 benrob0329 Hi RobbieF 16:49 RobbieF hi benrob0329 16:59 rdococ yey 16:59 Calinou anything said on IRC is permanent, although web-based logs can be edited :P 17:08 benrob0329 I should make a bot to redact [off] messages after 5 minutes 17:12 benrob0329 rdococ: Matrix has message redaction 17:13 rdococ [REDACTED] 17:13 rubenwardy ▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮ 17:14 rdococ welcome to minetest, where ice solidifies lava 17:14 rubenwardy ice and fire? 17:15 rubenwardy > SAM is the prince who was promised confirmed 17:15 rdococ no, ice and lava 17:15 rdococ it's just... █████ ███████ ██ ███ █ ████ █ 17:15 rdococ █████████████ ██ █ ███████ 17:17 DS-minetest minetest lava isn't so hot, that's the reason why ice solidifies it. sam can even swim in it 17:17 sofar ice and lava? 17:17 sofar let's assume typical lava at 1000C 17:17 sofar and typical ice at -10C 17:18 rdococ DS-minetest: without dying quickly (in survival)? 17:18 sofar specific heat of lava is ... 0.84 kJ/kg-K 17:18 DS-minetest yes, just eat some apples 17:18 DS-minetest (well, lag can kill you) 17:18 sofar ice is 2.1, water is 4.2 (kJ/kg-K) 17:18 sofar specific weight of lava is 3.1 17:19 rdococ that's because hunger is unrealistic in minetest_game, not because lava is boiling kool-aid 17:19 sofar so by volume, 1m3 would take 0.84 * 3.1 * 1000 to cool down 1K 17:19 sofar 2600 kJ 17:19 DS-minetest rdococ: but even without food, sam can be in lava for some seconds, have you ever tried that? 17:20 DS-minetest sofar: but sources are infinitely big 17:20 sofar 1m3 of ice gives 1kJ prior to melting 17:20 sofar roughly 17:20 rdococ 1m3 of lava somehow expands into multiple times that 17:21 rdococ with just 4m3 of water, you can create infinite water 17:21 sofar but if the ice melts you'd get another 4200 per K of energy 17:21 rdococ why do people apply science to a game where you can infinitely duplicate water 17:21 sofar the total would end up 4200 * 100 + 10 (kJ) 17:22 benrob0329 rdococ: its like deletion in other chat systems 17:22 sofar 4.2 * 100 + 10 17:22 sofar 430 kJ, that is 17:23 sofar err I'm off somewhere there 17:23 rdococ lol 17:24 paramat yeah it's unrealistic, but then 1 node of water cools 1 node of lava, and ice would of course be melted to water 17:24 sofar 541 * 1000 for 1m3 ice to boil off 17:24 sofar 2600 for lava to cool down 1K 17:24 sofar that results in a lower temperature of the lava by 208K 17:25 sofar assuming the lava is 1000C, it would still be fluid at 792C 17:25 sofar if the lava is 700C, it would solidify at 492C 17:25 rdococ are you still applying science to a game where 4m3 of water can become infinitym3 of water, and a game where you can hold stacks of 99m3 of gold without the weight killing you? 17:25 sofar no 17:25 paramat i made snowblock cool lava, but not snow slab as it's smaller 17:26 sofar I'm taking a theoretical ideal volume of lava and a theoretical ideal volume of ice :) 17:27 rdococ what would be cool is a fully fledged electrical circuit system 17:27 rdococ but idk how I'd do that 17:27 rdococ resistors are weird, man 17:28 sofar I've thought about making a true semiconductor mod 17:28 sofar e.g. P and N materials 17:28 rdococ you could use them in diodes and transistors 17:28 rdococ actually, I think I did make a mod like that 17:28 rdococ it wasn't that good though 17:28 sofar for educational purposes it would be 17:29 rdococ I meant that the code was messy 17:29 sofar link to source? 17:30 rdococ github.com/rdococ/silicons I think 17:35 sofar might be worth redoing and fixing 17:39 CWz #modernstoneagefamilly 17:40 CWz Really miss that show growing up 17:44 rdococ yey 17:45 * rdococ hugs a hug 17:46 benrob0329 rdococ: wot 17:46 benrob0329 How *universe explodes* 17:47 rdococ lol 17:49 rdococ yay 19:04 rdococ https://rdococ.github.io/ <- I'm creating a WEBSITE! 19:11 bigfoot547 Oh muh gaws 19:11 bigfoot547 Oh muh gawd 19:11 rubenwardy oh, nice 19:11 bigfoot547 me too: https://bigfoot547.github.io/ 19:11 rubenwardy very minimalistic 19:11 rdococ lol 19:12 bigfoot547 I spent very time on the sitemap lol, it's handwritten: https://bigfoot547.github.io/sitemap.html 19:12 rubenwardy you should look into Jekyll 19:13 bigfoot547 Ehh 19:13 rubenwardy no need to hand make sitemaps 19:13 bigfoot547 I think that website generators are cheating :3 19:13 rubenwardy It's not a generator really 19:13 rubenwardy it's not like it's WYSIWYG 19:16 IhrFussel Just happened again: 27/35 on my server but they see "too many users" 19:16 IhrFussel Either someone really abuses that packet sniff bug or the engine has a big issue 19:17 Krock too many reserved slots? 19:18 IhrFussel I thought reserved slots do NOT count as regular slots 19:18 Fixer benrob0329: you can recompile FF to use alsa iirc 19:18 IhrFussel Or is that only the admin account? 19:20 benrob0329 Fixer: I do, but WebRTC doesn't work then 19:20 rubenwardy I don't think Minetest has reserved slots? 19:20 benrob0329 And, hard dep in 57 19:20 rubenwardy players with the server priv can join anytime they wish 19:20 Fixer lol 19:20 rubenwardy maybe some other privs too 19:28 IhrFussel rubenwardy, Shara had the same problem recently...there were 14/30 players and the others got "too many users" 19:29 IhrFussel Possible (although VERY unlikely) that there were just so many in the connecting phase 19:30 benrob0329 It wouldn't be hard to make a mod for reserved slots though 19:30 IhrFussel The problem is that the servers tell "too many users" too soon it seems 19:34 IhrFussel I can actually check if there were really 8-9 people connecting cause I log each prejoin 19:36 IhrFussel Ok I gotta say it's not impossible anymore... 19:36 IhrFussel I had ~ 10 players connect within 1 minute for the last 20 or so 19:37 IhrFussel Shara, I suggest you to add a minetest.log() in on_prejoinplayer() and see if that explains the "too many users" 19:39 Shara IhrFussel: Why it happens is a minor point. The issue is that it happens. 19:40 Shara Cap of 30, but getting this before server has 20 connected players... shouldn't happen. 19:40 IhrFussel Shara, it happens because there ARE max_users / max_users slots used JUST that many didn't join yet 19:40 Shara I suspected that before you showed me that issue 19:40 IhrFussel A slot is gone as soon as someone connects AFAIK 19:41 IhrFussel Yes that explains it: ~ 15 players were in the loading phase when the issue happened 19:41 IhrFussel On phone loading can take up to 2 minutes 19:42 Shara So I'm basically getting a crazy number of people in prejoin phase who never actually make it into game. 19:42 Shara While players who are perfectly capable of playing simply can't connect 19:42 Shara If you are seeing this, it's my issue too, given both our servers rank fairly highly 19:43 Shara I won't be getting is less than you. 19:43 Shara it* 19:43 IhrFussel Likely...many have their app crashed on them cause it couldn't handle the media, or maybe they thought it's too much to download and closed it..but between connecting and joining a slot is definitely in use 19:43 Shara There really needs to be a better way to handle this 19:43 rdococ why do people use spaces to indent code? tabs ftw 19:43 rubenwardy any servers with high quality coastal cities? 19:44 rubenwardy also any with good subways 19:44 IhrFussel rubenwardy, can you confirm a player slot is in use as soon as someone connects? 19:44 rubenwardy I believe so 19:44 rubenwardy that was talked about recently 19:44 Shara To whatever devs are paying attention: is there no way to auto-disconnect a player who's attempt to join take slonger than x seconds, then hav ea conf setting so server owners can set what is acceptable to them? 19:45 Shara Maybe even scale acceptable connection time based on how far from the player cap a server is 19:46 Shara I don't want to raise the cap on my servers, since I know that's probably about how many players they can handle... but due to this they often refuse players far sooner, and how much sooner is totally unpredictable. 19:47 IhrFussel Shara, it's the worst when sudden player waves happen... 19:48 Shara It means being too popular can actually kill your ability to take players 19:49 Calinou It wouldn't be hard to make a mod for reserved slots though 19:49 Calinou there is one 19:50 Calinou also, people who have some kind of moderation privilege can always join a server, even if full 19:50 Calinou *supposedly* 19:50 Calinou (in practice, it didn't work for me) 19:50 Calinou eg. the "ban" privilege, or "server" 19:50 Shara Define "some kind"? 19:50 Shara The account I could always join on was the named admin 19:50 Shara And you can only have one of those set in conf 19:50 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4927 19:51 Calinou hmm, this is still open 19:51 CWz i wonder how many users can minetest handle 19:51 Calinou wow, I opened this in December 2016, I had no idea, I thought I did that like in 2015 :P 19:51 Shara Didn't see that before, but instant thumb up from me 19:53 Calinou :) 19:53 cx384 I am working on a mod with which you don't need to take care about in which chest you should put which items anymore. Anyone want to see? 19:54 cx384 bad English x_x 19:56 cx384 https://github.com/cx384/storage_interface/blob/master/screenshot.png?raw=true 20:01 Raven262 That looks complicated... 20:04 cx384 I think it isn't complicated, because you only have to place the storage interface next to your chests. 20:05 rdococ yay for hugs 20:07 cx384 bye bye 20:08 lisac Calinou, I can see a very very big problem with that kind of reserved priv 20:09 lisac currently server list gives placement punishment for servers with a high maxplayer, right? 20:09 lisac what if server admin just auto granted vip priv to all players? 20:17 Calinou lisac: hmm… it probably wouldn't work on first join 20:20 Shara Obviously upper limit should not be infinite and should not disregard cap completely. 20:21 Shara I'm just tired of my regular players (and me when I play on a non-admin account) not being able to connect when the server shows something like 17/30 20:46 Fixer Xhttps://twitter.com/Shitty_Future/status/882125437945737216 20:47 Calinou Xhttps? is that extra-secure HTTPS? 20:55 rdococ lol 20:55 rdococ xhttps 20:58 Fixer https://twitter.com/Shitty_Future/status/834121105468223488 21:07 paramat "is there no way to auto-disconnect a player who's attempt to join take slonger than x seconds" worth considering, but at busy times do desktop players have their connecting slowed, could it hit the wrong players? 21:08 paramat Calinou's issue is worth considering too 21:08 paramat guh, mobile users causing problems again :D 21:09 * Fixer decided not to swear about mobile 21:09 Fixer also, where is octacian? 21:09 sofar school probably started for him again 21:09 Calinou paramat: media download can take a while 21:10 Calinou it's much faster with a web server set up, but unfortunately, not everyone takes the time to set one up… 21:10 Calinou (I am beginning to think it should be required for servers listed on the list) 21:10 Calinou (it's ok to not have one for LAN/private gameplay, but it ruins the experience on public servers) 21:10 IhrFussel I just found a protection by "mr_Hitler" on my server who built a nazi symbol lol 21:11 Calinou I once was playing Sauerbraten, then I see… "Adolf_Hitler connected from United States" 21:11 Calinou seems legit 21:12 Fixer pfff 21:12 Fixer i've seen Adolf Hitler like week ago or so 21:12 Fixer and he built a nazi themed town* 21:12 IhrFussel His protection was named "Mein Kampf" too 21:12 sofar in ukrain? that doesn't surprise me 21:12 Fixer sofar: nope, USA server $) 21:14 Fixer i'm not sure if it is permitted in USA 21:14 Fixer sofar: in Ukraine there is ban on nazi/communism ideology 21:15 sofar yes, I hear it's particularly effective in the eastern regions 21:15 Fixer Germany has ban on nazi ideology too 21:15 sofar as a dutch person, I'm well aware of the german prohibitions 21:16 sofar apparently, asian travellers to berlin not so much 21:16 sofar https://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/08/don-t-mention-war 21:18 paramat does connection timeout have a fixed value currently? 21:18 sofar my guess it's based on the OS stack values 21:18 sofar nerzhul probably knows 21:18 Fixer sofar: ukraine has no far right parties in parlament, btw, I hope this does not surprise you too 21:20 sofar not at all. what surprises me is that russia can just shoot down an airplane with dutch and malay folks in east ukrain and take a whole province 21:20 Fixer for some reason neonazi still fascinates some folks around the planet 21:20 Fixer sofar: welcome to russia 21:22 Fixer sofar: i remember that day when they shot down the plane, western investigation said military rocket system went in from Russia, shut down some planes, and then MH17 and then exit to Russia back, question is: who was operator? 21:23 paramat be careful to not confuse the ancient and fine swastika symbol with the specific 3rd reich symbol 21:23 Fixer sofar: and Europe is always buries its head in the sand 21:23 sofar it's a proxy war, russia is responsible 21:24 Fixer Putin feels that Russia is strong and Europe is weak, and he is right, Europe is lets pretend nothing happens lalala, lets send another Shreder to receive money from cleptocracy 21:25 sofar Fixer: to be honest, ukrain really cut itself in the shins by not accepting EU's invitations to cooperate more right before this mess all started 21:25 Fixer Putin started antiwestern war long ago, projects, propaganda, for years, nobody cares 21:25 paramat well, USA cares, they're very aggressive towards russia :] 21:26 sofar this could have likely been prevented but perhaps polls were fixed to make it look like ukranians didn't want europe's aid 21:26 Fixer sofar: president was probably threatened by Putin, then he announced we won't cooperate with EU and will receive money from Putin 21:26 sofar paramat: wth? trump is effectively ass-kissin putin 21:26 sofar Fixer: yeah, undoutably (and then he ran) 21:26 Fixer sofar: it is not about the aid 21:26 paramat Shara it's worth opening an issue for settable timeout time, at least for discussion 21:26 sofar it would have made it harder for russia 21:27 sofar without the aid the country is in chaos -> easy invasion/insurgion 21:27 Fixer sofar: people in ukraine like european system more or less, they don't want this russia-alike cleptocracy with czar/oligarchs and stupid peasants without any rights 21:27 paramat trump yes, the rest of USA government differs 21:27 sofar with the aid it would potentially attack european aid 21:28 Fixer sofar: it is not about the aid 21:28 Fixer sofar: Ukraine can easily aid itself, by beeing realistic, you can't pay 1usd for gas, if it costs 5... government created huge communism like warfare systems, it was not sustainable 21:28 sofar what-if scenarios are kinda useless, yes 21:29 Fixer sofar: they fixed it after revolution 21:30 Fixer sofar: currency exchange was unrealistic for years, nobody wanted to fix it, gas prices were ridiculous low (yet guy cost a lot) - nobody wanted to fix this, they wanted to get more debt instead of telling the truth 21:30 sofar well I hope that ukr becomes a better country for it, but losing a significant part of it to essentially russia is still a waste 21:30 Fixer sofar: there is no free living 21:30 Fixer sofar: you have not lived under communism, what it created in people, cancer 21:30 paramat and EU cares too, it has imposed sanctions on russia 21:30 Fixer sofar: more or less it created peasant people that relied on mammy state for everything 21:31 Fixer sofar: especially in russia 21:31 Fixer sofar: so when communism collapsed, we transitioned to "market" 21:31 Fixer sofar: but 21:31 Fixer sofar: here comes shitty part 21:31 sofar right, I haven't. I've seen only some of what it can do (berlin etc, right after wall came down) 21:31 Fixer sofar: to please "people", they lowered gas/heating/whatever prices, and you know how it ends up, look Venesuela 21:32 Fixer fucking soviet degenerate economy 21:33 Fixer sofar: after revolution, currency exchange is free floating now, fixed our export-import, it is improving, stabilisation, realistic utility prices, yet people still complain that they need to pay more 21:33 Fixer lots of reforms 21:33 Fixer yet people still complain 21:33 Fixer they want something visible 21:33 Fixer like road construction, shit like that 21:34 Fixer road construction is seriously increasing too 21:34 sofar instead they got dashcam videos 21:34 Fixer sofar: my parents had no fucking toilet paper 21:34 Fixer SERIOSLY 21:34 sofar I believe you 21:34 Fixer huge mega super pony communism wander @ no toilet paper 21:35 Fixer how?????? 21:36 Fixer capitalism has its own faults, but not communism again, fuck this 21:37 Fixer also, EU/Ukraine itself buried head in the sand while Russia went back to ultra-far-right-everything-is-Russia-antiwestern mode 21:37 Fixer we suffered because of our stupidity, but now we learned our lesson (at least most of the people, except commies, they love russia so much) 21:38 rdococ hm 21:38 rdococ I wonder what I should put on my website 21:40 Fixer sofar: here is another example, schools, Ukraine reduces amount of schools with like 10 children, instead they go in bigger one and use bus, people are SAD 21:41 sofar that's happening everywhere 21:41 Fixer sofar: or medicine, people just don't understand there is amount-quality trade-off, they want school-hospital in even smallest village 21:41 sofar teachers in the US buying pencils for kids with their own money 21:42 Fixer sofar: and now comes communists and says how USA(tm)-sponsored(R) government destroys our schools/hospitals/blablabla 21:42 sofar they do that in the US too 21:43 Fixer people just don't understand that you can't have 10 awesome hospitals, you choose 1 good hospital, or 10 shitty ones... people want 10... it is puzzling, meh, don't want to drive so much to that hospital 21:44 Fixer sofar: or... you will not believe but people in Ukraine call ambulance when they have something like +39*C or baby cries... 21:44 Fixer sofar: because they expect "free" ambulance 21:44 Fixer same for whole exUSSR 21:46 Fixer they don't understand that ambulance is for saving lives... not doing one injection in butt to reduce your body temp from +39 to +37*C 21:46 Fixer true story 21:47 Fixer sofar: and worst thing that USA has both sides of the cancer, neonazis and communists, but I have suspicious that USA(tm) communism should be more human friendly without too much genocide like USSR practiced 21:47 sofar I believe communism is entirely gone 21:48 sofar socialism plenty though, but that's something completely different 21:48 sofar I'm probably not using the same definitions that you may have gotten in school when you were a kid :) 21:49 sofar to me, socialism means public schooling, healtcare including mental health, welfare are single-payer solved issues 21:49 Fixer sofar: lets say I avoided that cancer, but my parents have not, but it is more of older generation problem 21:50 Fixer sofar: in reasonable manner... but not Venesuela like 21:50 Fixer sofar: or another thing like pensions 21:51 sofar welfare includes pensions imho 21:51 Fixer sofar: in Ukraine it is 60/60, but it is still not quite good financially, and people are very sad to have 63/63... they don't understand that without doing that future pensioners will have even less pensions :( 21:51 sofar welfare == people who should or can not work 21:51 Fixer pensions = necessary 21:52 sofar welfare is necessary 21:52 Fixer sofar: in Ukraine problem was regulated utility prices that were unreal and made huge debt, that was fixed after revolution 21:53 Fixer sofar: when you pay 1usd for heating and budget pays another 5usd... people don't even know about that 21:53 Fixer they think they are ripped off 21:53 Fixer this regulation has a name 21:54 sofar as I recall it was russian gas prices that got jacked on ukraine 21:54 Fixer sofar: yes, but government went with poker face and price "for people" was very low, it was stupid populist policy 21:55 sofar sure, that's not very intelligent 21:55 sofar it's also political suicide anyway, irregardless 21:55 Fixer sofar: smth like 0.1 usd for 1cu m of natural gas, thats like free compared to Europe prices 21:55 Fixer sofar: thats populism aka Trump 21:55 sofar but essentially russia did that, ukraine just got played 21:56 sofar "here, have some more free heroin" 21:56 Fixer sofar: politicial suicide? ha, that president-traitor who left to Russia now lives in russian government mension, life is good (c) 21:57 sofar yes but his former friends are all out of office now, and wish they hadn't taken his word for it 21:57 sofar at least, that's what I assume, lol 21:57 Fixer sofar: they have enough money, it is not western-corruption like 21:58 Fixer sofar: here it is you grub money as fast as possible and buy everybody or left the country to Russia, it accepts all kinds of scum around the world 21:59 Fixer revolving door corruption is too slow for us 21:59 Fixer thats reserved for german guys like Shreder 22:00 Fixer sofar: yes, free heroin 22:00 Fixer sofar: Russia has other country on "free heroin" it is called Belarus 22:01 Fixer country that still emulates kind of soviet past on russian welfare 22:01 sofar that place is scary 22:02 Fixer sofar: nah, i know a guy who went there (working trip), it was funny 22:02 Fixer sofar: they don't talk about politics, end of story 22:02 Fixer closed mouth 22:03 Fixer actually very few exUSSR countries are free and democratic more or less... like only 6 out of 15 22:04 Fixer all of them on western border near EU 22:04 Fixer what is amazing about russia 22:04 Fixer it is huge country with 140 million peasants 22:04 Fixer they have literally one main party and few "technical" parties 22:04 Fixer they hardly can name opponents for putin 22:04 Fixer Only 22:04 Fixer Putin 22:04 Fixer no more alternatives 22:05 Fixer thats how propaganda works 22:05 rdococ hm 22:05 Fixer it is politically dead 22:05 rdococ Is there an easy way to add some kind of base HTML (say, a menu) on each page? 22:06 sofar what page? 22:06 Fixer sofar: funny how USA/Europe free speech is actively used by Russia and Islamists to promote their propaganda, China probably too 22:07 Fixer also, Richard Stallman was on RussiaToday 22:08 Fixer thats kinda sad, that this may hurt OSS a little, eh, nobody cares, RMS was always considered weird but he was right in many places 22:09 IhrFussel What is quicktune? 22:10 Fixer same question 22:11 IhrFussel When I press pageup/down on my keyboard it says quicktune = "(nothing)" = (none) 22:11 Fixer sofar: somewhere in our news I remember some guy from Netherland said MH17 downing is bad, but business with Russia is also good, thats EU for you 22:12 sofar I doubt that that is the general consensus, my family sure isn't going to go shop russian any time soon 22:12 sofar they are still appalled and shocked 22:14 Fixer i don't feel like EU really cares, it is just talks, Germany even wants to build another pipe from Russia and their minister said American natural gas competition is kinda bad idea 22:14 Fixer it is strange 22:14 Fixer they talk about finding other suppliers, yet they want another pipe to increase monopoly 22:14 rubenwardy rdococ, what host? 22:15 rdococ rubenwardy: using github pages 22:15 Fixer not sure why USA gas is that bad 22:15 rubenwardy ah, github.io 22:15 rubenwardy look at Jekyll. You get that for free with github pages 22:15 rdococ it was easier than doing anything else, lol 22:15 rubenwardy meaning no work 22:15 Fixer from what I seen prices are pretty good, compared to Europe 22:15 rdococ I'd use Jekyll but meh. 22:15 rubenwardy I use github pages to host rubenwardy.com 22:15 rdococ it's more fun when I do it by hand. 22:15 rubenwardy Jekyll is really good and light weight 22:15 rdococ I will really regret that. 22:15 rdococ :P 22:16 rubenwardy you still do HTML by hand 22:16 Fixer maybe it is not that much cheaper, but alternatives are welcome, natural gas is still used as political tool 22:16 rubenwardy you can just use templates 22:16 rdococ ah 22:16 rdococ well, maybe 22:16 rubenwardy for example, rubenwardy.com is all HTML just with includes for header and footer 22:16 rdococ I might take a look in that case 22:16 rubenwardy Jekyll isn't a CSM, it's a static site generator which makes raw HTML easier 22:17 Fixer sofar: you mentioned skyrocketed gas prices for Ukraine by Russia, here is part you don't probably know, for -100 usd prices down they wanted their fleet to stay longer in Cremia... then they annexed it anyway 22:18 Fixer we don't buy natural gas from Russia anymore, via Europe only, it is done, no more of this crap 22:19 sofar all this oil and gas and coal shit needs to go away anyway 22:19 Fixer sofar: also, USA these days is literally Ukraine-like politics 22:19 Fixer reading USA forums, ... same thing 22:20 Fixer sofar: ha, you mentioned coal... guess what...? 22:20 sofar apparently trump has made stupid people feel it's ok to open your mouth 22:21 Fixer sofar: Ukraine has very deep and dangerous antracite coal mines (Donbass), coal extraction is not profitable (mostly), Tetcher did it in 198X, Ukraine? Nah... let it run, see, bestest capitalism 22:21 Fixer bestest as in Borat 22:22 sofar I still haven't seen Borat 22:23 Fixer sofar: same for car producers, ... oh, they produce 100 cars per month... lets support them and increase prices on everything imported by thousands... "PROFIT", not really 22:23 Fixer and aftermarket prices are shit there because of this 22:23 sofar coal is dead anyway, too expensive to exploit due to labor cost 22:24 sofar with rising wages everywhere in the world, soon it'll only be used for steel and that's it 22:24 Fixer sofar: how much? here 1000 usd per worker is probably considered good here, at least they demand 1000 usd NOW on some strikes 22:25 Fixer we have steel production, but using local mines is problematic, some profitable some not, most is occupied by russian-prorussian-separatist thing, coal is exported to russia now 22:25 sofar it doesn't matter much since cost of things are relative 22:26 Fixer sofar: nah... East Europe business, you don't understand (tm) 22:26 Fixer sofar: steal one pack of vodka, drink it, destroy bottles, ???, profit 22:26 Fixer business 22:26 sofar I do understand. Even china isn't opening as many new coal plants as they previously said they would 22:26 sofar reason: it's just not cost effective 22:27 sofar they are sure as hell not doing it for the environment 22:27 Fixer sofar: hint, you can do "unoffical mine" 22:27 Fixer sofar: you are not anarchocapitalistic (tm) enough 22:27 sofar nah, they could care less 22:27 sofar besides, it's easily monitored and spotted 22:27 Fixer pfff, Donbass environment was ruined long ago, it is rust belt, total 22:27 sofar china still imports coal anwyay 22:27 Fixer rust + coal belt 22:28 sofar mostly due to a lack of their own resources 22:28 Fixer sofar: china will cool down anyway and coal demand will lower eventually 22:29 sofar coal for electricity will be eradicated soon, imho 22:29 Fixer Europe slowly builds up solar / wund station 22:29 sofar 10-20 years tops 22:29 Fixer sofar: here it is 50% atomic, some hydro, and most was antracite from local mines, it is transfered to other coal type right now 22:30 Fixer very roughly, i maybe wrong 22:30 Fixer coal was something like 30% 22:31 Fixer sofar: environment be damned anyway, maybe US/Europe does something, but in other places... be damned 22:32 Fixer sofar, also, Ukraine will buy your coal now, I hope you are happy :D 22:32 Fixer somewhere from midwest 22:33 * sofar declares weekend and goes home 22:34 Fixer weekends are best 22:34 sofar 3-day weekend too, yay 22:36 Fixer sofar: I have coal on my shelf, also, is it a bit radioactive from what I know? 22:37 Fixer less radioactive then igneous rocks? 22:47 rubenwardy wow 22:47 rubenwardy so much politics 22:47 rubenwardy so much offtopic 22:47 rubenwardy :D 22:50 paramat yeah, enough :] 22:53 Fixer paramat: history of swastika (prenazi) is very interesting, widely used symbol across Europe and Asia for thousands of years (even in roman times), symbol in Buddism 22:55 Fixer used by neonazis today more or less, and in buddism 22:58 Fixer and probably other religions 22:59 shivajiva note the original symbol was mirrored when the Nazis used it 22:59 paramat i'm sure the other uses used both directions though 23:00 Fixer swastika can be both directions 23:01 Fixer basically it is everywhere, but you can't mention it because nazism and neonazis 23:01 Calinou so I'm looking at some archived page: https://web.archive.org/web/20150218160738/http://www.funender.com:80/quake/articles/fps.html 23:01 Fixer probably ok in asia 23:01 Calinou "This calculator will probably only work in Internet Explorer, as it needs VBScript." 23:01 Calinou ooh, the Windows 2000/XP era… 23:01 Fixer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#/media/File:Winchestercathedralheadonwilliamedingtontomb.jpg 23:03 rdococ lol 23:04 rdococ dora the explorer 23:05 Fixer Calinou: "probably" 23:05 Fixer works for me!11 23:06 rdococ lol 23:09 Calinou note the original symbol was mirrored when the Nazis used it 23:09 Calinou or when Romero first put it in E1M4-- 23:09 Calinou oh wait 23:14 rdococ moo 23:33 Shara Calinou: RC uses remote media and still gets the issue. I've also optimised every mod I have to reduce the amount of total media. 23:34 Calinou :( 23:34 Calinou I guess it's because there's tons of small files to download 23:34 Shara DL on the other hand does not use remote media, and doesn't get the issue as much 23:34 Calinou libcurl doesn't support HTTP/2 (at least in Minetest), so there's lots of requests done and it's slow 23:34 rubenwardy not quite as fast as MTG, Shara 23:34 Calinou having a single .zip with all the data would be much faster, but this is a lot of work both on the client side (adding a virtual filesystem, eg. PhysicsFS) and the server side (script to assemble media into a .zip) 23:35 Shara (I'd be extremely angry to find DL got removed from the main list due to this anyway) 23:35 rubenwardy but not quite another server I connected too 23:35 rubenwardy :D 23:35 rubenwardy does MT do individual downloading with remote media 23:35 Calinou this is what Quake 3 and derivatives do, custom assets come in .pk3 files which are just renamed .zip files 23:35 rubenwardy does it support HTTP/2 for batching? 23:35 Calinou no extraction is needed, the client downloads them from a web server and uses them directly 23:35 Calinou pretty sure it doesn't use HTTP/2 23:35 Calinou it downloads each asset with these cryptic hexadecimal names :P 23:35 Shara But yea, number of files can be an issue as well as size. Number is harder to reduce though. 23:36 Shara But too tired to think about it tonight. Good night! 23:38 rubenwardy I have no idea where the exit to this library is 23:38 rubenwardy oh well 23:38 rubenwardy time to sleep anyway 23:39 rdococ woof 23:47 Calinou now I want this for Christmas… http://www.nofrag.com/images/007eaf.jpg :D 23:48 IhrFussel How to make an entity immortal? 23:48 Calinou source is here: http://imgur.com/gallery/FSMca 23:48 rubenwardy IhrFussel, with immortal 23:48 rubenwardy *troll face* 23:48 IhrFussel immortal = true? 23:48 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1431] 23:49 rubenwardy huh, says it's a group by the objectref doesn't mention any group params 23:50 rdococ https://rdococ.github.io/index.html 23:50 IhrFussel so damage_groups = {immortal=1} ? 23:50 rdococ the "Test" element is linked to "#test", which doesn't do anything :P 23:51 rubenwardy wiki mentions armor_group 23:51 rubenwardy no, armor_groups 23:51 rdococ armor_hugs 23:52 rubenwardy damage_groups is a tool thing 23:52 rubenwardy so armor_groups = { immortal = 1 } 23:52 rubenwardy it looks like 23:52 rubenwardy lua_api sucks 23:52 rdococ hugs? 23:53 rdococ btw, what are your thoughts on my "website" so far? :P 23:53 rdococ it only has one page but I got a working navigation menu 23:53 rubenwardy nice 23:53 rubenwardy padding is very important, btw 23:53 rubenwardy for readability 23:54 rubenwardy I'd separate the body and the navbar more 23:54 Jordach rubenwardy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udj-o2m39NA 23:54 rubenwardy also, your HTML is invalid 23:54 rubenwardy things you see can only be in 23:54 rubenwardy so your nav bar and header should be in 23:54 rubenwardy use for a heading 23:54 rdococ ah 23:54 rubenwardy and