Time  Nick         Message
02:39 Zeno`        oops :)
02:46 VanessaE     well it's about fucking time
02:46 VanessaE     that you showed up ;)
02:47 Zeno`        I've been around
02:47 Zeno`        But being mentally ill I sometimes forget where I am
02:47 VanessaE     oh that's easy
02:47 VanessaE     you're right....... THERE  *points at a random spot in Australia*
02:47 VanessaE     see?
02:47 * Zeno`      looks
02:47 Zeno`        wow, you're right!
02:48 VanessaE     lol
02:48 Zeno`        and look! A book with my name on it! :-o
02:48 VanessaE     :D
02:53 * benrob0329 finally has some time to tweak configs n stuff
02:53 benrob0329   including vimrc
03:02 Zeno`        make sure it has pretty colours
03:32 benrob0329   Zeno`: all my terminals have pretty colors :PP
03:34 Zeno`        mine are just kind of very dark bluish background
03:35 Zeno`        basically a slightly modified version of solarized dark for everything
03:37 Zeno`        benrob0329, do you have one of these? http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/vim_layout/vim_qwerty_black.jpg
03:37 Zeno`        it's a "help" keyboard O.o
03:38 benrob0329   Zeno`: no, but might be helpful :PPP
03:38 benrob0329   i'll learn all the shortcuts eventually, just takes time
03:39 Zeno`        I have a different keyboard for every program I use
03:39 Zeno`        a minetest one, a vim one, a shell one, a tmux one, a firefox one, etc etc
03:39 benrob0329   different monitors?
03:39 benrob0329   in a big tri setup?
03:39 Zeno`        yes of course because I put little post-it notes on them
03:41 Zeno`        I did have a tri setup but have gone back to two monitors now: a 2550x1440 and a 1920x1200
03:41 Zeno`        2560*
03:41 benrob0329   im not sure if i should try to move all files manually (im finally organizing my youtube stuff) or just pack everything into the blend
03:42 Zeno`        I think this is VanessaE's colour scheme: http://community.smartbear.com/nwkab66374/attachments/nwkab66374/Functional_Web_Testing/15688/1/1.jpg
03:42 benrob0329   MY EYES
03:43 VanessaE     not.  even.  close.
03:44 VanessaE     http://i.imgur.com/3t8VDKZ.png
03:45 VanessaE     (yes, I'm browsing through old Dilbert comics out of boredom)
03:45 kaeza        well, at least you changed that script font :P
03:45 kaeza        ...for...Comic Sans? :((
03:46 VanessaE     I use comic sans for window title bars :)
03:46 Zeno`        lol
03:46 Zeno`        those desktop backgrounds aren't photos I took, VanessaE
03:46 Zeno`        traitor
03:47 VanessaE     :P
03:50 Zeno`        benrob0329, here is OSZero booting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKERPeOwed4
03:50 benrob0329   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feA64wXhbjo
03:50 benrob0329   wait
03:50 Zeno`        perhaps I could make it so it works in xterms as well
03:50 benrob0329   https://i.imgur.com/TCROI2k.jpg
03:50 benrob0329   why is middle click sidderent than shift crtl v?
03:50 kaeza        404
03:51 VanessaE     nice imagery, benrob0329
03:51 kaeza        because you're pressing cortrol instead of control?
03:51 Zeno`        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsppgpwMxUI
03:51 Zeno`        very space like benrob0329
03:52 Zeno`        I wish Tuomo didn't slow my plasma down :(
03:53 benrob0329   x11 vs DE (probably gtk actually) clipboards
09:29 kaeza        off I go. good night o/
09:37 shivajiva    Morning :)
09:55 * Zeno`      fries up some spam for shivajiva
09:55 Zeno`        yummy
10:10 Shara        Morning all
10:11 Raven262     Greetings, Shara
10:15 Calinou      hi
10:24 shivajiva    Zeno: you know I'm vegetarian :P
10:24 shivajiva    Hi Shara :)
10:24 Shara        Hi Raven262, hi shivajiva
10:35 Krock        hello everybody
10:35 Raven262     Hello Krock
10:35 Shara        Hi Krock
10:37 Krock        I almost couldn't believe what I found today in a shop - a Rick Astley LP and if it wasn't enough, the first track is Never Gonna Give You Up
10:38 Krock        pranks guaranteed
10:46 Zeno`        of course it was the first track
11:14 Raven262     o/ lisac
11:25 DI3HARD139   Hello Jordach and Fixer
13:56 Zeno`        fucking OC
13:56 * Zeno`      grumbles
13:56 Jordach      hai Zeno`
13:56 * Zeno`      will bbs
13:56 Zeno`        hi Jordach
13:57 nerzhul      Debian 9 is out
13:57 nerzhul      Zeno`, don't answer him let him talking alone
13:58 Zeno`        yeah I know... don't feed the troll
14:01 Zeno`        the problem is that I cannot stand liars and people making false accusations
14:01 nerzhul      Zeno`, lgtm
14:05 * red-001    tries very hard to forget Oldcoder
14:05 red-001      Zeno`, he doesn't deserve to be remebered even in a bad way
14:08 DI3HARD139   Quick question. Are there any major bugs I should be aware of with 0.4.16-stable?
14:08 red-001      in minetest_game then I say yes
14:09 red-001      the book issue is somewhat major
14:09 red-001      well it depends what you see as major I suppose
14:09 DI3HARD139   Meh. Not really an issue for me then. I don't run that portion of minetest. Just the core
14:09 DI3HARD139   I only use custom games. Most of which are still running mods from the 0.4.13 era
14:36 Wayward_One  hi all :)
14:49 red-001      does anyone know which ambience mod has the best enviromental effects?
14:50 red-001      the orginal had a bunch but the code is a nightmare and there are a lot of random effects mixed in
14:50 red-001      tenplus1 version is better codewise and has a lot less random effects but it seems to be lacking in the amount of sounds
14:51 red-001      maybe I could try and merge the two together
14:51 red-001      since I guess they are both a bit light on dynmaicly triggered effects since they run on the server
14:51 Shara        Ten tried to keep his very light.
14:51 red-001      but a CSM port can do more stuff
14:52 Shara        I will probably stop hating CSM so much if a good ambience mod shows up for it
14:52 red-001      maybe I should just write a mod from scratch
14:52 Shara        It's something really needed.
14:53 red-001      too bad CSM doesn't have the functions an ambicne mod needs
14:53 red-001      I'm using getnode to read nodes since thats the only way I can
14:54 * red-001    wishs the someone just addded node counting functions instead of the find_node family
14:54 red-001      Shara, my two attempts at a CSM abience mod so far https://github.com/red-001/ambience and https://github.com/red-001/MinetestAmbience
14:55 red-001      you need to copy the sounds folder to a server mod or your soundpack
14:55 Shara        Can't look at the moment
14:55 Shara        Found a bug that's... bugging me.
14:55 Shara        So playing with ways to fix it :)
14:56 DI3HARD139   Quick question. Is it possible to manually re-add 'sneak' via a mod?
14:56 Shara        At the moment yes
14:56 DI3HARD139   Usual physics override?
14:56 Shara        new_move = false
14:56 red-001      there is a forum post in the news section about the override name
14:57 Shara        just set that as an override on join
14:58 DI3HARD139   Using the usual minetest.set_physics_override({})?
14:59 Shara        minetest.register_on_joinplayer(function(player)
14:59 Shara        player:set_physics_override({new_move = false})
15:00 Shara        something like that. Worked on singleplayer tests for me anyway
15:13 Krock        inb4 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17734
15:34 paramat      DI3HARD139 i guess you mean 're-add classic sneak behaviour including sneak ladders and sneak-jump'?
15:34 DI3HARD139   I put PilzAdam's fix into a lua file in the game's mod dir. and changed 'false' to 'true'. Works wonderfully.
15:34 DI3HARD139   @paramat Yep!
15:35 DI3HARD139   From here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1484
15:39 Shara        Krock: thanks for link to my mod. Just noticed :)
15:40 Shara        and hi paramat
15:40 Krock        ^^
15:40 Krock        offtopic: http://imgur.com/gallery/aH4ppoz
15:43 benrob0329   Ambiance mods need music imo
15:43 Shara        Agreed
15:43 benrob0329   Although its probably different logic, so perhaps not
15:44 Shara        Sound effects alone are... not enough for me
15:45 benrob0329   We need some good (short and loopable) ambiant tracks, that blend in with the background well
15:45 benrob0329   They shouldn't be in your face
15:46 benrob0329   They should just immerse you
15:48 Calinou      [heavy metal intensifies]
15:49 Raven262     yes!
15:49 Raven262     xD
15:49 benrob0329   https://github.com/oamldev/oaml
15:57 Calinou      Serious Sam has adaptive music, it works quite well I've found
15:59 Fixer        current mood: https://i.imgur.com/ERoARYV.png
16:02 Fixer        Calinou: +1
16:13 Jordach      benrob0329, Calinou pointless endeavour
16:14 Jordach      Minetest has reached the point where the core devs don't want modders to have a reasonable toolkit
16:14 Jordach      this is minetest; http://i.imgur.com/hYYz1If.gifv
16:18 Jordach      >says voxel engine on the cover
16:18 Jordach      >doesn't do much other than be a FOSS MC
16:19 paramat      "core devs don't want modders to have a reasonable toolkit" yeah yeah of course :]
16:19 Jordach      i'd rather have a shitty codebase that does more shit than something that looks like a sunbleached flag
16:20 Jordach      it's been 5 fucking years and no progress on "MobAI"
16:20 Jordach      nodeboxes came out around 5 years ago
16:20 Jordach      and yet Minetest Game is virtually IDENTICAL
16:21 DI3HARD139   dev.minetest.net is the toolkit that I use
16:22 Jordach      DI3HARD139, plantlike meshoptions isn't even properly fucking documented
16:22 Jordach      "yes we're a game engine"
16:22 Jordach      "wheres the documentation"
16:22 Jordach      uhhhhhh
16:23 DI3HARD139   Thats probably my one complaint about the docs. It doesn't have much for mesh design and requirements
16:23 Jordach      DI3HARD139, the modding API is a fucking afterthought
16:25 paramat      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L802 if these docs are not good enough improve them :]
16:25 Jordach      and then spend a week in PR hell because 6/10
16:25 Jordach      devs need to sign off on shit
16:25 Jordach      or because of a simple typo people won't notice
16:26 paramat      'afterthought'. the whole of 0.4 is built around the modding API as the central feature
16:27 Jordach      paramat, 0.3 was monolithic in design entirely
16:28 paramat      Jordach no one takes your nonsensical rants seriously, but it's ok they're not particularly irritating because we know you just do this ;]
16:28 Jordach      paramat, except when the truth is told you run the fuck away
16:29 paramat      go count the number of PRs by sofar and me in MTG
16:30 Jordach      paramat, and they're all under the hood
16:31 paramat      like the under the hood new biomes and decorations
16:31 Jordach      which have no gameplay value other than looking shiny
16:33 Jordach      the million-and-one open world surival crafting games on steam have more shit to do than MT
16:33 paramat      anyway, you're still here so you like it really :]
16:33 Jordach      and by extension, a real set of shaders
16:34 paramat      'no gameplay value'
16:34 paramat      well write a subgame with stuff to do, it's down to contributors
16:34 shivajiva    any issues building latest, it bombs for me at 37% whilst building srp.cpp
16:36 shivajiva    srp.cpp:45:
16:36 shivajiva    /usr/include/c++/4.9/cstddef:51:11: error: ‘::max_align_t’ has not been declared
16:36 shivajiva    using ::max_align_t;
16:37 shivajiva    starts... In file included from /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gmp.h:51:0,
16:37 paramat      you're a valued person, but please try to minimise the nonsensical insulting rants, and please be a little more restrained with expletives, using them casually is unpleasant
16:37 Jordach      swearing and diagnosed from childhood autism are two good friends indeed
16:38 shivajiva    yea but you have to physically write it, that's the point to censor ^
16:39 Jordach      words don't hurt anyone
16:39 shivajiva    words are weapons, sharper than knives, makes you wonder how the other half dies....
16:40 shivajiva    inxs ^
16:40 paramat      i'm not sure expletives are an unavoidable symptom, i'm borderline aspergers myself. words have effect
16:41 paramat      you were not this bad a few years ago
16:41 red-001      you can't take my -g̶u̶n̶s̶ expletives
16:42 Shara        Also can't seem to build latest.
17:14 red-001      yeah I think I will just write a new ambience mod
17:15 red-001      all of the existing mods have major flaws of some sort
17:38 Fixer        Jordach: develope your game @ include in official distrib
17:38 Jordach      Fixer, pfft
17:39 Fixer        Jordach: but MTG has carts [i n  2 0 1 6 ]
17:39 Jordach      y t h i
17:39 Jordach      y t h o
17:40 * Jordach    thinks about putting a variant of Solar Plains into MC:W10
17:47 Jordach      Fixer, look at this fucking draw distance
17:47 Jordach      blob:http://imgur.com/e1db559f-cce0-4ee8-93d3-441d3ef67795
17:47 Jordach      http://i.imgur.com/TwHC1xU.jpg
17:47 Jordach      solid 60fps
17:48 Fixer        Jordach: how much mem used by it?
17:48 Jordach      2gb
17:48 Jordach      http://i.imgur.com/s6JVgBa.png
17:50 Jordach      that render distance is 16*60
17:50 Jordach      not forgetting the anti-aliasing
17:52 paramat      red-001 the flaw of ambience mods for me is they use sounds of stuff or animals not actually present in the MT world, the result is it sounds ridiculous. what's needed is running water, fire and wind in trees sort of stuff, animal sounds should stay in animal mods
17:52 Jordach      Fixer, more specifically: add-ons are downloaded to the client if they are used by a server
17:53 Jordach      fek
17:53 Jordach      Fixer, more specifically: add-ons are downloaded to the client if they are used by a server
17:58 Fixer        Jordach: not bad
17:58 Fixer        Jordach: that means MT can be speed up too (in theory)
17:59 Fixer        Jordach: also, on your screenshot there are lots of water, go into land only area on top of some mountain
17:59 Fixer        paramat: get biome info will be nice for ambience mods i guess
18:03 paramat      oh, meeting in dev
18:26 Fixer        Jordach: 300 fps in mc beta 1.7.3 (with optifine)
18:41 Jordach      30C in my room right now
18:41 Jordach      t o a s t y
19:01 Fixer        Jordach: remove PC heat
19:08 Krock        sudo apt-get remove pc_heat  or  sudo apt-get autoremove  will do it
19:08 Krock        also remove kebab, if you're on the way :P
19:12 tenplus1     hi folks
19:12 VanessaE     hi ten
19:12 tenplus1     hi Vanessa
19:12 tenplus1     what's new '
19:13 nerzhul      you can disable some CPU cores too :p
19:13 VanessaE     nothing much here.
19:13 tenplus1     same... *sips coffee*
19:13 tenplus1     hi nrz
19:14 nerzhul      hi tenplus1
19:14 tenplus1     o/
19:20 Raven262     Hello tenplus1
19:20 tenplus1     hi raven
19:20 Raven262     I'm having a very hard time working on this texture pack i'm making, can't get stuff just as i want.
19:21 tenplus1     textures are always fiddly :P especially if you are a perfectionist :D
19:21 Raven262     I seem to be :P
19:21 Raven262     Should I be disappointed in myself? xD
19:21 tenplus1     ehehe
19:21 tenplus1     showcase your textures and let everyone else decide :D
19:22 Raven262     I made 4 different stone texture today, none of them was.. what i expected
19:22 Raven262     sure, when i finish the basic support for mt game i'll post it on the forums :D
19:22 tenplus1     github is good for things like this also :P
19:22 Raven262     *textures
19:22 tenplus1     you can always get users helping out
19:23 Raven262     nah i'm not posting it on github, bad preview
19:24 tenplus1     :P
19:25 Raven262     Heh lets try this again :P
19:25 Raven262     5th time
19:25 Raven262     gl hf
19:43 tenplus1     hi kaeza
19:44 kaeza        hi tenplus1
19:52 Krock        hi tenplus1
19:52 tenplus1     hi krock :0 hows u
19:54 Krock        I'm fine thanks. Got some cheap but used records (LP) today. They still sound quite good <3
19:54 Krock        how about you, ten?
19:55 tenplus1     not played a record in a long time...
19:55 tenplus1     am good thx, just tired :P
19:56 Krock        in contrast to the digital music it's also nice to have tracks in a material form :)
19:57 paramat      well, digital is material form :]
19:57 tenplus1     hi paramat
19:57 tenplus1     lp's do tend to sound really good tho
19:59 paramat      yes
19:59 Krock        paramat, well yeah but it's quite volatile - once deleted, it's complicated to restore
20:00 paramat      yeah i prefer CDs as that is permanent material form
20:00 Krock        and CDs can be scratched easily, which makes it hard to read them for some drives
20:01 garywhite    I have Prime Music, but now I'm gonna have to go back to CDs, cause they're pulling all their songs so that people will pay extra
20:01 paramat      vinyl is very scratchable, possibly more delicate
20:01 shivajiva    in a blind test with decent equipment and a clean vinyl most people think the LP is the digital source based on the fact they are told it's a better system
20:02 tenplus1     paramat: since dirt with snow is no longer considered soil, any chance of now adding dirt_with_pine_needles or something simliar for pine biomes
20:02 Krock        I believe that also depends on the material quality
20:02 Raven262     Is this acceptable as a stone texture? http://i.imgur.com/BKjAogO.png
20:02 tenplus1     hi shiva and gary :D
20:02 paramat      tenplus1 taiga or temperate coniferous forest?
20:02 shivajiva    the only thing vinyl can't do is stereo bass as that represents the groove depth
20:02 Krock        looks more like hardened lava
20:03 Calinou      record as in vinyls?
20:03 shivajiva    Hi ten
20:03 tenplus1     yar...  same thing you did with rainforest litter only with pine :D
20:03 Krock        Calinou, yes
20:03 tenplus1     ooh, that stone looks creepy as hell :DDDDD love it.... would make a kewl END realm
20:03 Raven262     I'm making a whole tp in that style
20:04 Raven262     xD
20:04 paramat      yes the lack of stereo bass bothers me, i always preferred cassette tapes anyway even if they sounded worse
20:04 red-001      tenplus1, do you know of an ambience mod that has a large amount of sounds?
20:04 Krock        shivajiva, from the aspect of quality, digital surely wins. (well, as long you don't encode it with 32kbit/s MP3)
20:04 paramat      nice stone
20:04 Calinou      this will be released soon, IIRC, https://store-uk.nin.com/collections/music/products/quake-ost-1xlp-1
20:04 Calinou      :D
20:04 garywhite    hi
20:04 Krock        wohoo
20:04 tenplus1     hi red, nothing too huge I dont think... my own ambience redo has a good selection but no music
20:04 Raven262     And it seems that after 5 tried i finally made stone texture, good for me.
20:05 Raven262     *tries
20:05 red-001      I see
20:05 paramat      tenplus1 which biome? temperate pine forest will get 'dirt with dead needles' but taiga will remain 'dirt with snow'
20:05 tenplus1     red-001: github.com/tenplus1/ambience
20:05 red-001      I already ported your mod but it seems to be using locationless sounds
20:05 red-001      which is sub optimal
20:06 tenplus1     yeah, it just plays in players ear :DDD
20:06 tenplus1     keeps it simple but works
20:06 * Sokomine   is glad that two villager mods got released today :-) finally some life in my villages
20:06 tenplus1     hi Sokomine, yeah saw those... looking good
20:06 red-001      well I guess I should write a mod from sratch
20:06 tenplus1     if you do red, add an api :) would be great
20:06 tenplus1     kept meaning to do that but no time
20:06 paramat      just dig and replace 'dirt with snow' to get dirt, then plant in that, that represents breaking up frozen soil
20:06 shivajiva    nyquest criteria is phooey, you might not hear the stuff they throw away but it affects the harmonics interpolating from a series of samples
20:07 red-001      yeah I'm planning to implement it with an API
20:07 tenplus1     yeah paramat, gotta change Ethereal cause it relies on snowy dirt for some saplings
20:07 red-001      but the client doesn't really support mod packs yet
20:07 paramat      ok
20:07 red-001      and it lacks some of the functions I need so I have to manually loop through the near by mods using getnode
20:08 Raven262     I see minetest is finally getting some proper npcs :D
20:08 Raven262     And two mods in a same day? Oo
20:09 Sokomine     yes :-) and they're both already very fine. not complete, but good
20:09 tenplus1     Question: Should I change Ethereal so that saplings grow on ANY soil ???
20:09 tenplus1     or keep it specific ??
20:10 Sokomine     tenplus1: hmm. ethereal has something in that it requires special soil...maybe make it configurable?
20:17 Krock        Calinou, FYI: we also have a DPI setting.. but yes, it's quite limited: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L811
20:18 Calinou      Krock: it doesn't work for many things, I've seen
20:18 Calinou      need to try it again...
20:18 Krock        could be - I haven't tested it at all
20:22 tenplus1     hi bigfoot
20:22 bigfoot547   Hi tenplus1
20:31 tenplus1     ethereal NG updated, farming redo updated
20:32 bigfoot547   Cool
20:40 tenplus1     nite all :D
21:42 Fixer        PART FISH
21:42 bigfoot547   Exciting
21:42 benrob0329   My new keyboard came in
21:42 Fixer        had no problems compiling prelates build
21:42 Fixer        lets test again on newest git
21:47 * Jordach    creates a RGB profile containing the Solar Plains palette
21:50 Fixer        8f778577
21:50 Fixer        very nice
21:51 Fixer        time to test GC64 again via that simple mod
21:51 Fixer        a = {}; for i = 1,1500000 do a[i] = table.copy(minetest.registered_nodes); end
21:52 Fixer        waiting for crash within 30-60 sec, lets see
21:52 Fixer        minetest.exe mem usage at 3gb
21:54 Fixer        still no crash, interesting
21:54 red-001      wow
21:54 red-001      nice
22:02 Jordach      >sfan5 didn't believe me that gc64 was stable
22:03 sfan5        it's not stable on my machine
22:03 Jordach      (((linux)))
22:05 Jordach      >puts solar plains on a keyboard
22:05 Jordach      http://i.imgur.com/zygBidh.png
22:05 ThomasMonroe compiler stability vary from machine to machine
22:05 ThomasMonroe thanks Shiva
22:08 Fixer        sfan5: at least it does not crash on my test anymore, which is good
22:10 sfan5        i don't remember which version i tested so it might've been fixed in the meantime
22:13 Fixer        https://i.imgur.com/waWJxCn.jpg
22:15 Fixer        i have two more methods
22:15 Fixer        1) dreambuilder_fatso
22:15 Fixer        2) xxxxxxx subgame from actual server that OOMs a lot
22:16 VanessaE     ...
22:16 Fixer        updating my mod database first
22:17 Fixer        last time i checked gc64 it crashed on both iirc
22:17 Fixer        and quite ridiculously
22:17 Fixer        lua mem usage at most 90mb and then SUDDEN OOM
22:18 Fixer        will check that too
22:19 Fixer        technic_worldgen on_generated and darkage on_generated are usual fuckers
22:20 Fixer        even after fixes
22:20 paramat      apparently the memory usage displayed at OOM is not the actual memory usage that causes OOM
22:21 VanessaE     it really *really* needs to tell us what mod and what line of code triggered the OOM (and how big the attempt weas)
22:21 ThomasMonroe well, this is goodbye guys, im headed to camp i might be on later tonight, but that is a maybe, cya in a week if not then
22:21 VanessaE     (was*)
22:21 VanessaE     have fun, ThomasMonroe
22:21 Fixer        paramat: could be, but mem usage was 90mb at most all the time
22:22 Fixer        Jordach: W10E has paid only texture packs? o_0
22:22 Jordach      Fixer, they can be installed for free under /appdata/
22:22 Jordach      (but those ones will always be up to date, compared to manual installs)
22:26 red-001      how is the modding scene for it
22:26 Jordach      minimal at the moment
22:27 Jordach      it's getting closer to MT levels of moddability
22:27 Jordach      but at LEAST THAT HAS WORKING MOB AI IN CORE
22:27 red-001      calm down
22:27 Jordach      ah nuuu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh_p20lHqtA
22:27 red-001      hey atleast we can be sure MS isn't not intertsted in someones shitty idea
22:28 Jordach      red-001, servers can host modded content and serve it to connected clients
22:28 red-001      but what sort of modded content?
22:28 red-001      I assume it's all messing around with data right?
22:29 Jordach      yep
22:29 Jordach      it's getting to the point that it's ready to get a Lua like API
22:29 red-001      huh they are going to add a scripting api?
22:29 red-001      well I guess they have to set up killing off the java version somehow
22:30 red-001      I assume they back ported it to old versions of windows right?
22:30 Jordach      red-001, it may be likely that the java version gets open sourced as an engine
22:31 Jordach      and just left with a few blocks and mobs removed
22:31 Jordach      and then fill in the blanks eg forge
22:31 Fixer        Jordach: hhaaha
22:31 Fixer        Jordach: to good to be true
22:31 Fixer        too*
22:31 Jordach      Fixer, considering .net got open sourced...
22:32 Fixer        Jordach: java one still a cash cow
22:32 red-001      dream on
22:32 Fixer        Jordach: wtf they don't support older OSes?
22:32 Fixer        Jordach: i mean W10 edition
22:32 red-001      .net is diffrent
22:33 red-001      they don't get money from that
22:33 Fixer        what is so special for it to be w10 only?
22:33 red-001      Fixer, nothing
22:33 Jordach      Fixer, Xbox Live cross play with both PE, XBL, Nintendo Switch...
22:33 Jordach      they're all the same version
22:33 red-001      it's just that MS needs to promote winshit 100
22:33 red-001      10*
22:33 Jordach      mods will run under all platforms
22:34 red-001      since it's pretty hard to get people to enjoy using adware unless you do that
22:34 Fixer        Jordach: i want it on W7, where is it? :}
22:34 Jordach      UWP
22:35 Fixer        Jordach: deUWP it
22:35 red-001      oh thats a shit excuse
22:35 Jordach      UWP is not Win32 compatible
22:35 Fixer        ha?
22:35 Jordach      or Win64 or even WoW
22:35 red-001      like some people said in the halo modding community "there is no reason it needs UWP"
22:36 red-001      it's pretty clear it's just an advertisment for windows 10 and UWP
22:37 Fixer        holy fuuuuck
22:37 Fixer        saw the price in my country MS store
22:37 Fixer        fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
22:37 Fixer        insane
22:37 Fixer        HAR HAR~~~
22:37 Jordach      Fixer, free copy if you own the java version
22:38 Fixer        Jordach: haha, no, it is East Europe
22:38 Fixer        good luck with that
22:38 Jordach      c h e e k i  b r e e k i
22:38 Jordach      Fixer, thing is
22:38 red-001      in fairness it's possible that minecraft is somehow magical and it needs UWP to even be possible to implement
22:38 Jordach      UWP allows those mods to run on ARM64 windows
22:38 Fixer        continuing testing dreambuilder
22:38 Jordach      red-001, UWP allows basically anything to run on basically any processor arch
22:38 Fixer        who needs arm64....
22:38 red-001      ^
22:39 VanessaE     make sure you're on the latest release of dreambuilder, btw
22:39 Fixer        VanessaE: it is
22:39 Fixer        every time I hear ARM, i almost feel that anal thing...
22:39 red-001      Jordach, wow so they invented cross compiling?
22:39 Jordach      red-001, Fixer: UWP is what NT truly is: portable windows for any architecture
22:39 Jordach      (NT was meant for both x86 and non x86 platforms)
22:39 Jordach      go figure it's turned up now
22:39 red-001      I didn't know it was possible for c++ to be compiled for diffrent archs
22:39 Jordach      </sarcasm>
22:40 Fixer        ha?
22:40 Jordach      think about how much 9X era shit still lives inside of windows 10
22:40 red-001      call the bloody newspapers they need to stop the presses and print this discoverey
22:40 Fixer        win 7 is x64, problem?
22:41 red-001      this will change the course of western civilization
22:41 Jordach      Fixer, remember that WOW16 and Win9x is still part of it
22:41 Fixer        so I'm forced to use UWP, wonder what is the fate of linux MC users
22:41 Jordach      Fixer, dual booting
22:41 red-001      no, the whole history of humanity
22:41 Fixer        Jordach: not in 64 bit one iirc
22:41 red-001      this is one par with the invention of the wheel
22:42 Fixer        Jordach: no, fuck MS
22:42 Jordach      Fixer, your other option is OSX
22:42 red-001      Jordach, if minetest can figure out cross-platform support then microsoft can use thier monutains of cash to figure out cross framework support
22:42 Fixer        Jordach: if I'm gay - yes
22:43 Fixer        but i'm not
22:43 Fixer        osx and win - same shit with different looks
22:43 red-001      hell they reimplemented the linux kernal as a windows subsystem
22:43 Fixer        you bend over in both anyway
22:44 red-001      and they can use the code for UWP unlike linux
22:44 Fixer        even in linux there are problems
22:44 Fixer        that Lennart related stuff was pushed furiously
22:44 Jordach      s y s t e m D  i s  c a n c e r
22:45 red-001      pretty sure they had internal ports of windows for all sorts of platfroms for ages
22:45 Fixer        VanessaE: blox:glowore - you should probably tune its light level, it is bright as hell since new light curve
22:45 Jordach      red-001, i think the idea of UWP was to allow writing bytecode that's portable across all variants of W10
22:45 red-001      ...
22:46 red-001      ....
22:46 Jordach      for example you can start writing something on a tablet then finish on a desktop
22:46 VanessaE     Fixer: I noticed.  make an issue on blox mod and I'll tweak it later
22:46 Fixer        will make later, if not forgot
22:46 red-001      I don't think you understand UWP
22:46 red-001      it's just a subsystem like win32
22:46 red-001      or the linux subsystem
22:46 red-001      or the old OS/2 subsystem
22:47 VanessaE     Fixer: what's it at now, and what do you figure it needs to be?
22:47 Fixer        less bright
22:47 VanessaE     light_source = 12       ,
22:48 Fixer        try 7
22:48 VanessaE     do some testing, tell me what you think looks best
22:48 Fixer        tommorrow
22:48 Jordach      red-001, Microsoft is trying to phase out the old 9x style UI and replace it with something modern but also looks exactly like 9x
22:48 VanessaE     (meanwhile, glow stones are 30 (!).  I'll fix those when I fix that ^ (
22:48 VanessaE     )
22:48 Fixer        i'm testing dreambuilder in general
22:49 Fixer        lua mem use is under 100mb most of the time
22:49 Fixer        VanessaE: ferns on jungle trees? o_0
22:49 red-001      I'm just saying the reason they didn't backport minecraft c++ to older versions of windows was to advertise the adware commenly known as windows 10
22:49 VanessaE     Fixer: if you say so :P
22:50 VanessaE     more likely a giant tree fern embedded among jungle trees
22:50 Fixer        VanessaE: https://i.imgur.com/zv9MpLh.png
22:50 VanessaE     weird
22:50 * VanessaE   shrugs
22:51 VanessaE     the only thing recently changed in the ferns mod was just the visual_scale
22:51 Fixer        VanessaE: maybe they did not find place to gen, so they gen on top of tree nodes
22:51 Jordach      red-001, in short, linux lost the battle ages ago
22:51 VanessaE     Fixer:  a light level of 8 looks good to me, btw.
22:52 Jordach      users want shit that works at all time with what they have and what their used to
22:52 Jordach      moral high ground does nothing for them
22:52 red-001      humans confuse me
22:52 Jordach      fortunately, UWP allows those to do what ever they need to do across any device they choose
22:53 Fixer        Jordach: "normies"
22:53 red-001      Well sorry I prefer versions of windows that don't have the nice builtin feature of adware
22:53 red-001      fuck ms for being shitty to consumers
22:53 VanessaE     Fixer: lighting fixed in blox git.
22:53 Fixer        red-001: MS went with cancerous road of google and other
22:54 Fixer        VanessaE: ty
22:54 Jordach      red-001, it's not MS
22:54 red-001      if you add ads to something it better be fucking free
22:54 Jordach      it's the users problem for not being educated by the fucking companies that sell you it
22:54 Fixer        i'm continuing walking to trigger some crash or oom
22:54 red-001      wait MS doesn't make windows?
22:54 red-001      shit I missed that part
22:54 bigfoot547   Fixer, in minetest?
22:55 Fixer        VanessaE: failed tree https://i.imgur.com/BmuOna7.png
22:55 Fixer        bigfoot547: yes
22:55 Jordach      red-001, another OS won't ever take off again. period.
22:56 bigfoot547   At: x/y/z 229367
22:56 Fixer        1100 11 1636 y102 on that seed
22:56 Jordach      users want their youtube, facebook, whatsapp, snapchat
22:56 VanessaE     Fixer: idk how that happens, except I know it's the engine doing it
22:56 bigfoot547   You will abort with a serialization error.
22:56 red-001      what strawman are you talking too??
22:56 Jordach      red-001, users won't flock to any OS anymore because it's "better"
22:57 Fixer        Jordach: thats niche
22:57 Jordach      but it has to have the normie shit there or it gets left in the dust
22:57 Jordach      see Sailfish, Jolla, etc
22:57 bigfoot547   Fixer, that is when you will crash
22:57 Fixer        linux has some normie shit
22:57 red-001      I mean you are winning agaist the strawman
22:57 bigfoot547   Where rather
22:57 red-001      mostly because strawmen can't talk
22:59 red-001      still I do wonder what OS this strawman advocates that it doesn't have a web browser
22:59 red-001      maybe it's windows phone
23:02 Jordach      red-001, and i don't see UWP taking off as a thing
23:02 Jordach      think of CAD users, graphics pros
23:02 Jordach      their usual software isn't on it
23:02 red-001      don't worry they will get rid of non-UWP apps in time
23:03 Jordach      red-001, some CAD packages still have Win95 era code left in them
23:03 Jordach      i wouldn't put it past autodesk
23:03 VanessaE     Fixer: pushing another dreambuilder build in a few mins
23:03 red-001      you can easily port normal programs to UWP apps
23:04 red-001      huh
23:04 red-001      I think it might actually be built on top of win32
23:04 red-001      and not a new subsyste,
23:07 Fixer        VanessaE: walked for 30 minutes, no crash, big progress to me (GC64)
23:08 bigfoot547   You won't crash for a while
23:08 Jordach      red-001, MC:W10 has massive performance gains on my system compared to Java
23:09 Fixer        bigfoot547: without GC64 it needs 5-10 minutes at most to OOM
23:09 red-001      Jordach, neat
23:09 bigfoot547   GC64?
23:09 red-001      but it probally has almost nothing to do with UWP
23:09 Fixer        bigfoot547: luajit with GC64 enabled
23:09 Jordach      red-001, 60 chunks (16x60 blocks in a straight line), at 60fps
23:09 red-001      but a large professional rewrite in a decent langague
23:10 Jordach      red-001, it's in C++
23:10 red-001      yeah so in the end thats asmbelly code vs java bytecode
23:10 red-001      one level further down
23:11 Jordach      red-001, it's also the end of those malware laden adf.ly links
23:11 Jordach      because of the inbuilt store
23:11 Jordach      (afaik they're stored DRM free)
23:14 Jordach      also top fuckin kek
23:14 Jordach      >PureBDcraft PE can be purchased one time on any platform and then be downloaded on any other platform (where the Minecraft Marketplace is available).
23:14 Jordach      >port PureBDcraft to any other device without explicit written authorization
23:14 Jordach      >any other device
23:14 Jordach      nice fucking meme
23:18 Fixer        "It's cross platform in the sense that they crossed mac os, linux, windows 7 and windows 8 off the list of supported platforms"
23:18 Fixer        lol
23:18 Fixer        Jordach: purchased? is not it was free?
23:18 red-001      is android still on the menu?
23:18 Jordach      Fixer, forge just stopped modders from using coremods
23:18 Jordach      MC is imploding java wise
23:19 red-001      or are they commited to only relase it on the gratest mobile platfrom of all
23:19 red-001      windows phone 10
23:19 red-001      ^ said no-one ever
23:19 Jordach      i had a windows phone 8 for a while
23:20 Jordach      wasn't half bad
23:20 red-001      well I think I have to increment a number from 2 to 3
23:20 Fixer        Jordach: it was scary at first @ but then you enjoyed it
23:21 red-001      3 people I have every talked to that I know used a windows phone
23:21 Jordach      red-001, i've noticed MC:PE supports both kb/m and touch controls
23:21 Fixer        never seen windows phone in my life
23:21 Jordach      even xinput controllers if need be
23:22 red-001      I mean bloody desktop linux has a similar market share to windows phone
23:22 Jordach      want to find out who's a linux user? they'll tell you
23:23 Fixer        Antinormie
23:23 red-001      linux 	1.66% windows phone  0.7%
23:23 Jordach      Fixer, i use W10 with most of it's brains killed
23:23 red-001      linux 1 windows phone 0
23:24 Jordach      because i use the best tools for the job
23:24 Fixer        Jordach: what tools? :trollface:
23:24 Jordach      "best" being partially ambiguous with W7
23:24 red-001      in what universe is windows phone good?
23:24 red-001      I would like to see that universe and talk some sense into it
23:24 red-001      market share doesn't lie
23:25 Jordach      red-001, it was fucking pretty good in WP8.1
23:25 Jordach      shit was fluid as fuck
23:25 paramat      language please
23:25 red-001      hey lets port our software to linux/windows phone so we get a lot of profit - Said no-one ever
23:26 Jordach      red-001, and that's why the world basically runs windows
23:26 Jordach      not our fault
23:26 red-001      windows phone is dead and microsoft should just give up on it
23:26 Jordach      it's all because of the 8bit micros having Microsoft DoS/Basic giving them the foothold
23:26 Jordach      from the 70s
23:26 red-001      it's not happening MS and it's not worth being able to put "phone" in your cross platform support ads
23:27 Jordach      (it's also why intel is such a fegging problem)
23:27 Jordach      red-001, iirc MS has UWP for android
23:27 red-001      wasn't it the other way around?
23:27 red-001      android in windows but the project got scraped because they relaised they were funding a dead platfrom
23:28 paramat      Fixer those failed trees are likely because the tree is being generated too soon after mapgen. L-system was never meant to run during or very soon after mapgen
23:28 Jordach      https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/10/uwp-porting-guidance-for-android-and-ios-developers/
23:28 Jordach      https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/ios
23:28 Jordach      huh, there's an iOS support for UWP
23:28 Jordach      neat
23:28 red-001      oh never mind it was .7 last year
23:29 red-001      now it's 99.6% android + iOS
23:29 Fixer        android support was dropped :trollface:
23:29 red-001      well I guess windows phone can be added to the "other" category
23:30 Fixer        still, MC (java) was quite customisable
23:30 paramat      L-system moretrees can't run on or very soon after mapgen because the trees are so big they will extend out of the mapchunk, there needs to be a good few seconds for surrounding mapchunks to generate first, so saplings by ABM are best
23:33 Fixer        pity there is little interest in Truecraft
23:33 paramat      so yeah it's the engine doing that, but the cause is a design flaw in moretrees
23:37 VanessaE     paramat:  which is why moretrees has a "generate saplings only" mode, which uses an ABM to grow then a bit later.
23:37 VanessaE     so in that mode, those trees are NOT grown during mapgen
23:38 VanessaE     Fixer: dreambuilder update is done.
23:38 Fixer        VanessaE: nice
23:39 Fixer        https://i.imgur.com/jvylwnb.png what the fuck is this
23:39 Fixer        REMOVE
23:39 VanessaE     (had to make a couple changes to homedecor first.  the new overlays feature is actually rather powerful, taking time to get it just right)(
23:39 paramat      yeah, saplings should be the default
23:39 VanessaE     paramat: easily changed.
23:40 paramat      i look forward to the default being changed then ;]
23:40 VanessaE     changed.
23:41 VanessaE     you'll need to change it in your world config also
23:41 VanessaE     (if you have one)
23:42 VanessaE     (worlds/your_world/moretrees_settings.txt)
23:42 VanessaE     either delete ^ that file, or just edit it.
23:45 VanessaE     dreambuilder updated with that change.
23:45 paramat      nice
23:46 paramat      'max block generate distance' is critical here as it needs to be large enough to generate all the mapchunks around the mapchunk containing the sapling before a player gets within range (48 nodes) of the sapling
23:51 VanessaE     I wonder if maybe moretrees should just force-load a bunch of blocks around/above each sapling :P
23:52 VanessaE     (at the moment that they're grown I mean)
23:52 VanessaE     actually, you know...that might just workl
23:52 VanessaE     -l
23:55 paramat      it seems that the default 'max block generate distance' of 6 is just big enough to avoid problems
23:55 VanessaE     sounds good then
23:59 paramat      yes i doubt force-loading is needed