Time  Nick         Message
00:00 Shara        hah
00:00 Shara        though it does make it kinda hard for me to use anything :P
00:01 Shara        mostly intrested in the beds
00:01 Jordach      Shara, my plan is to have a singular game server
00:01 benrob0329   BSD 4 clause, obviously
00:01 Jordach      (aka an offical thing)
00:01 Shara        I need nice beds for something.
00:01 Jordach      Shara, unlucky
00:01 Jordach      it needs that custom player model
00:01 Shara        hmm
00:02 Shara        might not even matter for what I'm thinking of
00:02 Shara        not all beds are for sleeping in!
00:04 benrob0329   > Tabs
00:04 benrob0329   TRIGGERED
00:04 Jordach      tabs can be converted into spaces by any fucking editor
00:04 Jordach      the tab key comes from the typewriters tabulator key
00:04 Jordach      for exactly that goddamn purpose
00:45 Jordach      i want to revisit the late 80s to early 90s
00:45 Jordach      (specifically 87->94)
00:45 Jordach      scratch 87, make it 84
00:47 paramat      i was there :] the space LEGO was excellent then
00:47 Jordach      paramat, more specifically
00:47 Jordach      the rise and death of analog before digital madness
00:50 Jordach      paramat, there's just something *magical* about cassettes
00:50 Jordach      my phone's digital music playback just drives me mad
00:51 Jordach      it's the "flat" and "monotone" sound these modern phones produce
00:56 Jordach      paramat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4lDU-QLUY
00:56 Jordach      just feels magical
00:56 Jordach      and remarkably peaceful
01:00 paramat      yes i loved cassettes, didn't really do records
01:00 Jordach      paramat, got a collection of these marvels in restored condition
01:02 Jordach      what makes that video special
01:02 Jordach      it's before doom on DOS
01:02 Jordach      before win 9x
01:03 Jordach      before even modern dialup systems
02:25 Sokomine     hmm. perhaps i ought to ask if trees_lib can be added to minetest-mods. it's a lib, not many screenshots, and people intrested will currently never find it, and adjustments to changes in mtg also ought to be considered
02:39 sofar        Sokomine: url?
02:39 sofar        nvm
02:47 Sokomine     found it? i mentionned it in a recent post
02:49 sofar        google fu
02:49 Sokomine     the purpose of the lib is to add all that belongs to trees *except* spawning. it's basicly a complex register function that accepts schematics, l-system and functions for tree growth. node registration and sapling growth are handled. could probably use some adjustments to more recent mt. and maybe i ought to add a more basic example
02:49 Sokomine     :-)
02:50 Sokomine     in the end it's a lib, and those tend to be useful only if they're available and installed
02:50 sofar        don't see a license
02:51 sofar        other then that, we can put it in minetest-mods :)
02:51 sofar        slap MIT on it and transfer?
02:51 sofar        afk a bit
02:51 Sokomine     let me check where the sample code came from...but afaik that was mostly mtg
02:55 * benrob0329 pops in
02:55 benrob0329   Isc License.
02:55 * benrob0329 pops out
02:56 Sokomine     i usually use gplv3.0. maybe unpractical for a lib? the example code is partly taken from duanes valles mapgen, vanessaes moretrees and mgv6
03:18 Sokomine     what would be the best liscence in this case? probably lgpl? mtg seems to use that...
03:20 sofar        lgpl-2.1 is best for mtg compat
03:20 sofar        mit is second best
03:20 sofar        same reason
03:50 sofar        https://gist.github.com/sofar/b3244ce728a907c6a442fcf7cd050985
03:50 sofar        just for the heck of it
03:51 sofar        oh, was meant for -dev
04:03 nore         https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1696 to follow with this afternoon's argument, this should make everyone happy :)
04:16 benrob0329   github dark theme is great when you have a headache
04:18 benrob0329   hi paramat
04:23 paramat      full moon O_O and full jupiter right next to it
04:24 benrob0329   nice
04:33 sofar        the moon is fantastic tonight
04:33 sofar        I might pull out my tripod and 7x15s
05:22 nore         hey all
05:22 nore         need input on this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1696
05:23 nore         one important change if this is merged is that TNT & fire will be *enabled* by default even for multiplayer; however if will be trivial to disable them (can be done in-game with the config tab)
05:38 benrob0329   +1
05:45 benrob0329   sofar: I would reply to the creation vs evolution thread, but I'm just too tired
05:47 sofar        hahaha
05:50 benrob0329   Ah screw it, I replied anyways
06:19 benrob0329   Gnight all
06:38 octacian     Night all
06:44 nore         night
08:06 Zeno`        is there nothing with can do about the current warnings?
08:06 Zeno`        s/with/we
08:06 Zeno`        oops wrong channel
08:50 Shara        Morning all
08:51 Krock        moin Shara
08:51 Krock        how are you?
08:52 Amaz         Moring Shara :)
08:52 Shara        Not bad thanks.
10:46 red-001      #minetest is pretty confusing right now
10:47 nerzhul      why ?
10:49 red-001      way too many accronyms
11:02 VanessaE     question, in a furnace that's active, if the fuel slot is empty but the furnace is still burning from the last lump of whatever, is it normal that inv:room_for_item() should return false when you check that slot?
11:02 VanessaE     or rather, it always returns false in that case.  is there a way around this?
11:16 Krock        VanessaE, room_for_item() does not take regard on the type of node or its functionality
11:17 VanessaE     I know. just talking about that particular corner-case
11:17 VanessaE     to the eye, the slot is empty, but room_for_item() disagrees
11:17 Krock        wrong list name, index or stack to put in?
11:17 VanessaE     nope, it's all correct as far as I can tell
11:18 Krock        hmm
11:19 VanessaE     https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/machines/register/generator.lua#L5
11:19 VanessaE     here's a practical example
11:19 VanessaE     (assume splitstacks != 1 for the sake of this code)
11:20 Zeno`        is the leak still happening VanessaE?
11:20 VanessaE     as long as the furnace is totally idle, room_for_item() returns true regardless of the stack size
11:20 Krock        but there you put the stuff into the list "src"
11:20 Zeno`        I tried to download twice last night but both times failed
11:20 VanessaE     Zeno`: yes, and still not sure of the cause, only that I can reproduce it on-demand.
11:21 Zeno`        ok, I'll try the download again
11:21 VanessaE     Krock: that's the correct list for this node.
11:21 VanessaE     or wait
11:21 VanessaE     that's the current code, I took out the fuel check
11:22 VanessaE     wait wait
11:22 Krock        insert_object needs "splitstacks" check too
11:22 VanessaE     I pointed you to the wrong code, detp
11:22 VanessaE     derp*
11:22 Krock        lol
11:23 VanessaE     actually no, that's the correct file.
11:23 Krock        but wrong line?
11:23 VanessaE     naw, it's right.  the list is just named "src" for some reason.
11:23 VanessaE     (I didn't write it, I'm only adding a feature)
11:24 VanessaE     anyway, insert_object is only ever called if can_insert returns true.
11:25 VanessaE     (you can see it happen if an item goes in and then comes back out - that's an indication that the stack could be split; what comes out is just the leftovers)
11:25 VanessaE     so if you insert a lump of coal or whatever, and the furnace "takes" it and starts burning it, it empties the fuel slot
11:26 VanessaE     if you check the fuel slot with room_for_item(), it will return false.
11:26 Krock        that's somewhat strange
11:26 VanessaE     unless the stack count is 1.
11:26 * CWz        gives VanessaE a box of peanutbrittle
11:26 VanessaE     it'll accept it then
11:26 VanessaE     (which you can see in the code is actually how the can_insert check is done)
11:27 VanessaE     hi CWz
11:28 Zeno`        3 hrs 57 minutes :/
11:28 VanessaE     ?
11:28 Zeno`        I wish there could be a smaller test case hehehe
11:28 VanessaE     oh the download
11:29 Zeno`        yeah :/
11:29 VanessaE     well, at least the map will be fairly up-to-date now (only one day old)
11:30 VanessaE     Krock: any ideas?  btw the same thing happens with the regular old furnace (as modified by pipeworks; that's the one where I had a deliberate fuel check and removed it because of this glitch)
11:31 Krock        I've looked through the C++ code of room_for_item but couldn't find anything that would prevent from putting items into empty stacks
11:31 VanessaE     hrm
11:41 Fixer        hi
11:45 VanessaE     hi
11:46 Krock        hello Fixer
11:47 * Jordach    irl http://i.imgur.com/LfBFEZP.png
11:49 Fixer        Jordach: expected to see pepe...
11:55 Jordach      Fixer, tfw you get fucked by your team not helping and by dark souls being dark souls
11:55 Jordach      never playing the objective in BF1
11:55 Jordach      ;_;
11:59 Fixer        PB&J Pup: Remove mod #1695
11:59 Fixer        kek
11:59 CWz          Jordach, sound like a TF2 experience
11:59 Jordach      CWz, nah lets just camp and snipe instead of capturing flags
12:10 Jordach      CWz, i just always love heavy machine guns
12:11 Zeno`        I just like sniping
12:11 Jordach      >pussy
12:11 Zeno`        it annoys people and it's funny because it's legit
12:11 CWz          Zeno' play's tf2
12:11 Jordach      i'll use those rifles, but no scope :P
12:12 CWz          ?
12:12 Zeno`        CWz, yea
12:12 CWz          cool
12:12 Jordach      CWz, Battlefield 1 allows you to use bolt action rifles without their scope
12:12 Zeno`        and also bf and also cod (although not much cod for ages)
12:12 CWz          silly Zeno` cod is a fish
12:12 Zeno`        :P
12:13 CWz          Both Sniper and Zeno are australian
12:15 Zeno`        you know sniper?
12:15 Jordach      snipins a good job m8
12:15 Zeno`        sniper is not Australian btw
12:15 Jordach      out of doors, plenty o' work
12:15 Zeno`        well he might be... but he doesn't live in AU
12:17 Calinou      New Zealand I think?
12:17 Zeno`        nah
12:17 Zeno`        closer to Africa I think :P
12:18 Fixer        ha
12:19 Fixer        i've noticed some opensource guys went into steam
12:19 Zeno`        just waiting for hl3
12:19 Fixer        played only bf 1942 and bf2
12:20 Fixer        Zeno`: will be probably released in this century
12:20 Fixer        or gabe dies
12:20 Zeno`        yuo think?
12:20 Fixer        i want to believe.png
12:20 Zeno`        Duke Nukem Forever is more likely to me released!
12:29 red-001      naw they are just going to call it hl4
12:41 Fixer        hl 4-1
12:43 Megaf        I will just leave this here. https://9gag.com/gag/aLDGOwz
12:44 Fixer        you can do that too
12:45 Fixer        depending on food
12:54 Megaf        oh boy, I want her https://9gag.com/gag/aQ9mQNd?sc=gif She is very smart
13:01 nerzhul      Megaf: please talk about minetest, it's not #minetest-mylife
13:05 red-001      it's not as bad as #minetest
13:05 red-001      the channel is way offtopic today
13:11 nerzhul      red-001: oh yes, i hope, because it's a channel to discuss about minetest and develop :)
13:11 nerzhul      not the core itself, but community + coredevs
13:12 Jordach      nerzhul, if you're like me and have no morale entirely
13:12 Jordach      generic chatting is much better
13:13 Fixer        i've tried to brainstorm this a little https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1485
13:19 Megaf        we should have #Minetest-Help, #Minetest-Dev, #Minetest-Chat and #Minetest-Hub
13:20 Megaf        #Minetest been redirect to #Minetest-Help
13:20 Megaf        That'd work
13:20 Fixer        two channels is totally enough
13:20 nerzhul      and #Minetest-mylife :p
13:20 Fixer        #Minetest-nerzhul
13:20 Fixer        #Minetest-Fixer
13:20 Megaf        I actually laughed at that
13:21 Fixer        it gets ridiculous here
13:21 Fixer        we already have minetest.net/minetest.org/minetest.com/and shitton of irc channels
13:21 Fixer        just move everybody back to #minetest
13:21 Fixer        and devs in #minetest-dev ofc
13:22 Amaz         And rename #minetest-project #minetest-hijacked :P
13:22 Fixer        nuke -project and -hub and -de -whatever
13:22 Megaf        Thankfully I haven't been given any power. If I'd any power I'd clean things up everywhere in the project.
13:22 Megaf        Amaz, lol
13:22 Fixer        it is not like #minetest is so flooded with chat
13:22 Fixer        kids can be ignored on #minetest :trollface:
13:22 * Megaf      is a kid
13:23 Megaf        as you can tell
13:23 Megaf        Now, is there anyone here running Minetest server in LXC containers?
13:24 Megaf        It just occurred to me that'd be a pretty interesting idea on one of my Raspberry Pis
13:24 red-001      #minetest-project is already dead
13:24 Megaf        I have a 4 core one, the Raspberry Pi 2, I'm pretty sure I can run 4 containers in that thing.
13:24 Fixer        Megaf: age?
13:25 red-001      do people use the non-english channels?
13:25 Fixer        Megaf: below 18?
13:25 Megaf        Fixer,  nope.
13:25 Fixer        crawl uses #crawl and #crawl-dev , CDDA uses just one channel for everything, #minetest has like 5 or more channels
13:26 Megaf        I wasn't serious on the age thing, nor on the girl thing. Just ignore that.
13:26 Megaf        I think usually 3 channels is a good number a general one, where chat about everything is already, a help one and a dev one
13:27 Fixer        i'm fine with 2 channels as it was
13:27 Megaf        and IF the community of a specific language is large enough, then maybe a channel for that language could be created
13:27 Fixer        but oh well
13:27 red-001      we seems to have about 5 general channels and one dev channel
13:27 Megaf        Fixer, me too, as long as off topic is allowed.
13:28 Calinou      don't forget #minetest-offtopic (for serious chatter), #minetest-/b/ (for the right people)
13:28 Shara        Well, -hub is meant to be for different kinds of contributors to talk
13:28 Calinou      :P
13:30 Fixer        holy crap
13:30 Fixer        there is #minetest-/b/ ?
13:30 red-001      now there is
13:30 Fixer        or it is sarcastic?
13:30 red-001      yes
13:32 red-001      oh freenode search only shows registered channels
13:33 nerzhul      yes
13:36 * Megaf      joins /b/
13:36 Megaf        I've been there before
13:43 Krock        Offtopic repost: "a new security patch has been applied https://i.imgur.com/xuzqyFl.mp4 "
13:44 Fixer        Krock: minetest_game
13:44 Fixer        revealed
13:44 Fixer        pokerface while typing and hoping it is english
13:45 Krock        ^^
13:47 Krock        o/ octacian
13:47 Fixer        joins/parts/quits disabled
13:48 octacian     hello Krock
13:49 Fixer        hello octacian
13:49 octacian     hey Fixer
14:00 Calinou      https://i.imgur.com/nawMSxe.png
14:00 Calinou      Fixer: ^
14:00 Calinou      this is too damn true
14:00 Calinou      (404 errors of old vs modern sites)
14:00 Fixer        Calinou: yep
14:01 Megaf        my personal website gives this precisely (copied from the actual shown page) "404 File Not Found"
14:01 Fixer        Calinou: remember new windows/gnome BSOD? Smile. Pooop. Smth happened
14:02 Fixer        do not be alarmed @ stay calm
14:07 Megaf        uh, oh, #Minetest-Chat is a thing now. Off Topic only
14:08 Megaf        we have #Minetest-OffTopic too, to chat
14:13 octacian     I just noticed that when I set the hand inventory to a new hand (specifically to a custom hand meant for creative), the new hand tool_capabilities are only used if I'm not wielding another item
14:13 octacian     Is this meant, or what?
14:14 Krock        I thought that was fixed recently
14:14 octacian     oh
14:14 octacian     Well, I should probably update MT in that case :D
14:15 octacian     (I've been very inactive on GitHub lately so don't have a clue what's happened for the last month or so)
14:15 Krock        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/08b680d
14:15 Krock        21 days old
14:15 octacian     Yay! Hardware colouring for itemstacks.
14:15 octacian     Thanks!
14:15 Krock        !next
14:15 ShadowBot    Another satisfied customer. Next!
14:16 octacian     Krock: here's a random question. Which would you prefer (assuming that no nodes had an on_punch callback): Instantly breaking blocks in creative, or no?
14:17 octacian     (and if anybody else gave their opinion I'd be happy as well)
14:17 Krock        a delay of about 200ms should exist IMO
14:18 octacian     hmmm
14:18 octacian     You don't happen to know what that translates to using the digtime variable used by the creative mod? (default 42)
14:18 Krock        I rarely play in creative mode but digging too fast can be annoying for detailed work
14:19 Krock        uhm
14:19 octacian     Well, the basic concept is that with immediate dig you just click rather than hold
14:19 octacian     I'm just unsure as to which would be more convenient
14:22 Fixer        octacian: there was already a discussion about that
14:22 octacian     Mind giving me a link?
14:22 octacian     I'm trying to decide for my own subgame, just want to get some other's opinions
14:22 octacian     Krock: yep, updating fixed hand issue
14:23 octacian     I now have fully-functioning gamemode, just need to properly check creative_enabled setting
14:23 Krock        final dig time = <digtime in params> / time_from_last_punch * full_punch_interval
14:24 Krock        seems to be in ms
14:24 octacian     ok
14:24 Krock        *s
14:25 octacian     Fixer: since you seem to be around, which would you prefer?
14:25 octacian     Immediate dig or like what MTG currently has?
14:25 Krock        crreative currently uses 0.5s
14:27 octacian     sounds about right
14:27 Fixer        octacian: current one is a bit slow, it needs to be faster to not catch with the blocks
14:28 octacian     Fixer: are you saying slightly faster or immediate?
14:29 Fixer        octacian: slightly faster, immediate is also fine tbh %)
14:30 octacian     hmmm OK
14:30 Fixer        octacian: with instant there is bigger chance of error
14:30 octacian     That's true.
14:30 octacian     But once you get used to it, it's slightly nicer because everything breaks immediately rather than different things at varied times
14:38 octacian     ..would XtremeHacker join already? lol
14:45 Shara        octacian: Did someone invite him/her?
14:45 Shara        If not, feel free
14:45 octacian     Reminds me, he doesn't know about this channel. Well, that's an obvious reason why he won't join :rotfl:
14:46 Shara        It's fine to invite someone if they are contributing to MT in some way.
14:46 octacian     Well, soon as he joins another channel I will
14:47 octacian     He works with me on a few things - mods, a subgame, so yes, he does contribute to MT in some way
14:48 Shara        I'm mostly afk today, but will voice if I see him here
14:52 octacian     OK, thanks.
14:59 octacian     Shara: could you give XtremeHacker voice?
15:00 Shara        Welcome :)
15:00 octacian     Thanks!
15:04 XtremeHacker Thans. :)
15:04 XtremeHacker *Thanks
15:37 * CWz        has a theory that Engineer is actually the most useless class in tf2, since his sentry can be replaced by a heavy solider combo.
15:38 Jordach      they don't
15:48 Megaf        o/
15:48 Jordach      o7
15:51 Fixer        broken hand
15:51 Fixer        o\
15:52 Megaf        /o\
15:52 Megaf        \o/
15:52 Megaf        (o_o)
15:55 Krock        or scratching on the head?
15:56 Megaf        I think o7 is just protecting his eyes from the sun while searching for something near the horizon
15:57 Krock        depends if there's a straigt down line after the horizontal one in your font
15:58 Krock        o'7  basically, as replacement
16:55 Krock        !tell tenplus1 http://i.imgur.com/ML0I2vC.png - look like a nuclear war to me tbh
16:55 ShadowBot    Krock: O.K.
17:08 sofar        ~
17:08 sofar        aliens
17:08 sofar        argh
17:08 sofar        ~
17:09 Jordach      ayy lmao
17:09 sofar        ~
17:09 sofar        /o\
17:09 sofar        aliens
17:09 sofar        sigh
17:09 sofar        that looked better in my head
17:10 Shara        Hi sofar :P
17:17 Krock        lol
17:18 nore         hey sofar
17:18 sofar        hacking up my timer class a bit atm
17:18 nore         heh
17:18 sofar        I don't like how it needs a global name
17:18 sofar        trying to make it use a local name instead
17:19 sofar        but, then I need to use debug.* functions to get the upvalue
17:19 sofar        maybe I shouldn't, or use a different method
17:20 nore         oh, btw: those of you who preferred fire & tnt disabled by default on multiplayer servers: is game#1696 ok for you? it enables both of them back by default, but disabling them is as simple as going into the "configuration" tab of the inventory and unticking both of them
17:20 nore         ehm, what do you need a global name??
17:21 nore         *why
17:21 nore         hey nerzhul
17:21 sofar        for persistency, I can't store a reference to the function
17:21 sofar        I need to store a reference to the name
17:21 nore         wait.
17:21 sofar        but, I'm beginning to wonder if I should abandon storing it at all
17:21 nore         so you sore a reference to the name of the function?
17:21 nore         *store
17:21 sofar        yes, the name
17:21 nore         uuuuuuh
17:21 sofar        yeah, exactly
17:21 nore         no don't ever do that
17:22 nore         several problems with that
17:22 sofar        that's what I'm concluding now as well
17:22 nore         1. the function's name might be changed
17:22 nore         2. it might have upvalues
17:23 sofar        yeah, and my timer class should be able to handle function refs just fine at timer creation
17:23 sofar        hmm
17:23 nore         so the correct way to do that is minetest.register_timer(<timer name>, <timer def>)
17:23 sofar        ok, let's redo it a bit
17:23 sofar        no, it's all under a Timer() class
17:23 nore         with the function getting what would previously were upvalues as arguments
17:23 nerzhul      hey nore
17:23 sofar        no more stuffing minetest.* even worse
17:23 nore         okay, Timer.register_timer
17:23 nore         same thing
17:24 nore         the thing is, you have to register the timer somewhere
17:24 nore         else you can't restore it
17:24 Krock        local t1 = Timer(function() <def> end)  t1:Start(<interval>)
17:24 nore         no
17:24 nore         doesn't work either
17:24 nore         because you start the timer
17:25 nore         the server is restarted
17:25 nerzhul      sofar, i agree for purely generic features outside of minetest specific scope it's a good idea
17:25 nore         and now it no longer knows the function
17:25 Krock        eww. right
17:25 nore         so I see only two ways to do this: 1. register_timer thing
17:25 sofar        just wait
17:25 sofar        stop it
17:25 sofar        go get coffee
17:25 sofar        come back in 30
17:25 * sofar      shoos
17:25 sofar        shoo
17:25 sofar        shooooo
17:26 nore         2. a preprocessing step that performs transformation of the source code from the intuituve version to the less intuitive one
17:26 nore         aaaaand, going back to work now :p
17:26 Krock        nore, you were shoooo'ed away ;)
17:26 nore         Krock: exactly :p
17:27 nore         I'm letting sofar think and see why there are no other solutions
17:27 nore         (arguably, passing the function as a string instead is yet another solution... but even more awful)
17:28 nore         (and bad for performance as well)
17:28 Krock        erializing the whole function would solve it but is somewhat insecure
17:28 Krock        *serializing
17:28 nore         you can't serialize a function I think
17:32 Krock        somehow I managed it once... uhm
17:34 Krock        > return string.dump(function() print("foobar") end)
17:34 Krock        ^ produces bytecode, nore
17:34 nore         ah yeah
17:35 nore         but loading bytecode is not safe so not allowed IIRC
17:35 Krock        yes
17:37 sofar        I didn't serialize the *code*
17:37 sofar        guys, you're going on a red herring I didn't even make
17:37 sofar        20 more minutes, shoo
17:37 * sofar      waves hands unintimidatingly torwards Krock and nore
17:37 Krock        these are just hypotheses
17:39 nore         sofar: I never said you serialized the code  :)
17:39 nore         but I'm waiting and will see what you come up with
17:40 Krock        I think sofar must mute this channel for a while to not get interrupted
17:40 Krock        it's quite mean to stop sofar from working on this feature
17:41 sofar        lol
17:42 Krock        ^^
17:42 Krock        hello rubenwardy o/
17:42 rubenwardy   hi
17:44 nore         Mode #minetest-hub [-v nore] by sofar
17:45 Krock        Mode #minetest-hub [+b ~nore@free.node/user/somewhat] by sofar
17:45 Calinou      free.nude
17:45 Krock        or that ^
17:45 nore         heh
17:45 * sofar      shoos more
17:46 nore         Krock: it's ~ncourant@sas.eleves.ens.fr actually :p
17:46 rubenwardy   wat
17:46 nore         hey rubenwardy
17:47 * Krock      gives sofar a 't' for the 2nd last position that will definitely make his "shoo" work
17:47 Krock        *shoos
17:47 nore         (I don't know how this work and how you can control it)
17:47 Krock        nore, the cloaks? you can request one in the services channel
17:48 nore         hmmm
17:48 nore         should do that someday
18:00 sofar        ok, it's working entirely now
18:01 sofar        publishing to minetest-mods, including demo code
18:01 nore         sofar: code or it didn't happen
18:01 sofar        we can curate and test it there
18:01 nore         :p
18:17 * sofar      writes docs :P
18:22 nore         you didn't push anything yet :'(
18:24 Jordach      sofar, what'cha doin
18:24 sofar        gotta have docs
18:25 sofar        Jordach: saveable timer class code
18:25 sofar        github.com/minetest-mods/timer
18:25 Jordach      oo
18:26 nore         sofar: push it and push docs later :p
18:32 sofar        reload
18:33 sofar        reload
18:34 Jordach      RELOADING
18:34 * sofar      pushes
18:34 sofar        ... his desk
18:34 * sofar      giggles
18:35 sofar        To github.com:minetest-mods/timer.git
18:35 sofar        * [new branch]      master -> master
18:35 sofar        alright it's pushed
18:39 nore         sofar: okay, so it's equivalent to the register_timer thing I spoke about :p
18:39 nore         except that the mod is responsible for the seralization
18:39 sofar        yes except I dropped the entire `register_foo` naming thing
18:40 sofar        just treat it like a lua class
18:40 sofar        we could add serialization and deserialization as a method
18:40 sofar        actually
18:40 nore         also
18:40 sofar        we could even do the storage load and retrieve
18:40 sofar        Timer:store(storageref, "keyname")
18:41 nore         yes
18:41 sofar        t = Timer(func, storageref, "keyname")
18:41 nore         I'd still like an easy way to do what you usually do with minetest.after
18:42 nore         i.e. minetest.after(5, function(pos) minetest.set_node(pos, {name = "default:stone"}) end, pos)
18:42 sofar        t = Timer(func, storageref, "keyname", default_interval, default_repeats)
18:42 nore         but put that in a function
18:42 nore         like on_place = function(...) minetest.after(...) end
18:42 sofar        you can do
18:42 nore         how
18:42 nore         ?
18:42 sofar        t = Timer(function(bla) end, ....
18:43 nore         yes?
18:43 sofar        yeah, should work just fine
18:43 nore         you can't pass arguments with that method
18:43 sofar        correct, you can not
18:43 nore         also, you can have only one running at once
18:43 sofar        no, you can have as many as you want?
18:44 nore         not with the same function/timer class
18:45 sofar        local t = Timer(....)
18:45 nore         and you don't know in advance how many you will want in the case I just said
18:45 sofar        I don't see the problem. t can be a local variable
18:45 sofar        you can make thousands of t's
18:45 nore         but
18:45 sofar        for i = 1,1000 do local t= Timer() end
18:46 nore         you can't restore these
18:46 nore         or store them
18:46 sofar        if you want to save them you need to array them
18:46 sofar        I don't see the problem with that
18:46 sofar        that's what arrays are for
18:46 nore         and know when to delete them etc
18:46 nore         that's horribly complicated
18:46 sofar        that's not something I can solve anyway
18:46 nore         however, what you can do
18:46 nore         yes you can
18:47 sofar        well I suppose with a storageref and key name, it could autosave?
18:47 sofar        but then I need to maintain lots of state
18:47 nore         allow each of your timers to contain several at once, but with the same function, only the arguments & delay would be different
18:47 sofar        which I don't want to
18:48 sofar        you're making it way too complex
18:48 nore         and you do things like timer:start_new(delay, args)
18:48 sofar        nooooo
18:48 nore         nah, that's the usual use case
18:48 nore         why no?
18:48 sofar        if you want that, make a new overlay class that does that
18:49 sofar        and does the housekeeping of what is essentially an array
18:49 nore         hmmm, I'll do that, probably
18:49 * sofar      shoos nore
18:49 nore         meh
18:50 * nore       shuns sofar
18:50 sofar        now, auto-storing and retrieving, that is something we should put in Timer()
18:50 sofar        since that is very useful
18:50 sofar        but I don't see why every entity couldn't have a Timer in it's own luaobject
18:51 sofar        so I don't see the need for an embedded list
20:28 sofar        ok I'm gonna make it handle saving/restoring as well
20:28 sofar        the Timer() initializer can directly read from storage if needed
20:29 sofar        and then you can Timer:save() it when you need
20:29 sofar        that'll make the demo code really simple too
20:38 Sokomine     sofar: i think trees_lib is now ready. i've seperated the examples from the lib and done some adjustments to the examples for mtg (i.e. added apsen tree and copied leafdecay). that part can be found on https://github/Sokomine/trees_lib_examples
20:38 Sokomine     how do i hand trees_lib over to minetest_mods now? :-)
20:39 Sokomine     it still could use some adjustments to more recent changes - in particular that lbm/timer growth instead of abms
20:40 sofar        github transfer it to `sofar`
20:40 Sokomine     perhaps the few lines that show how easy aspen trees could be added (once their schematic and textures are there) in comparison to how many lines it takes in mtg will convince some that the lib could be of use :-)
20:40 sofar        I'll move it tonight
20:40 Sokomine     thank you
20:41 Sokomine     now...er...where do i find that...*searching for link*
20:46 Sokomine     found it. thanks. hope it'll help if more people can work on it. i'm sometimes a bit lazy with my own repros and pull requests
20:50 nerzhul      sofar, you mean persistent storage?
20:51 sofar        nerzhul: yes. I'll push an update in a sec
20:51 sofar        it's working nicely and makes it even easier to make timers
20:52 sofar        I should test it with an anon function too, just to be sure
20:52 nerzhul      sofar, do you use mod storage or another storage model ? i think we should fededate our storage at a point
20:52 sofar        use mod storage
20:53 sofar        gimme a sec and I'll have code to show
21:08 sofar        https://github.com/minetest-mods/timer
21:08 sofar        nerzhul: nore: Krock: ^^
21:08 sofar        take a look at the usage as well:
21:08 sofar        https://github.com/minetest-mods/timer/blob/master/timerdemo/init.lua
21:09 Krock        \o/
21:10 nerzhul      sofar, interesting
21:10 sofar        note that the timer gets stored in the calling mod, not in the timer class mod
21:10 nerzhul      and it permits each mod to use its private storage it's nice
21:10 sofar        yes, so things like upgrading will be easier for mods
21:11 nerzhul      yes, and if a mod is removed, timer is removed with it
21:11 sofar        and you can still do non-persistent timers easily
21:11 sofar        exactly
21:11 Fixer        btw, why minetest-mods are not in minetest/ organisation?
21:11 sofar        I wanted my own empire
21:12 sofar        eh, wait
21:12 sofar        :)
21:12 sofar        no, it doesn't belong there, period
21:12 sofar        minetest-mods is basically organizing mod devs
21:12 sofar        as opposed to organizing core devs
21:13 nerzhul      Fixer, it's difficult, as you cannot have subgroups unlike gitlab
21:13 nerzhul      minetest/mods/timers is not possible with github
21:13 Fixer        oh
21:14 sofar        also minetest-mods can contain things that -core probably would never accept
21:15 sofar        it spreads a bit of risk
21:15 Fixer        https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16595#p262452 please read Wikipedia Founder cat eyes
21:16 sofar        Fixer: ?
21:17 Fixer        sofar: "Where can i find new specifications for 27. map format?"
21:17 Fixer        sofar: i've poked unexplore author to check new map format and he has no idea what was changed/added
21:17 sofar        open an issue, I'd say
21:17 sofar        docs out of date -> bug
21:18 Fixer        thats a good idea
21:30 sofar        nore: the one thing I may want to add is a `data` ref that gets passed through to the timer function
21:30 sofar        timer:set_data(data)
21:30 sofar        timer:get_data()
21:30 nore         I think this would be good to have indeed :)
21:30 sofar        so you can pass it an arbitrary bit of data
21:30 sofar        but it would not get saved to storage
21:30 nore         what
21:31 nore         then it's useless
21:31 sofar        since it can contain functions
21:31 sofar        there's no way to save it
21:31 sofar        or userdata
21:31 nore         well, you are responsible for the data being able to be saved
21:31 sofar        easy enough to timer:set_data() after initializing it
21:32 sofar        and if the mod changes behavior, it may entirely redo the structure of `data`
21:32 sofar        so storing it would potentially cause issues with mod upgrades
21:33 sofar        it would be entirely reasonable to pass an luaobject ref
21:34 nore         hmmm
21:35 nore         well, it's the always-there storage & compatibility problem
21:35 nore         the one that never has a perfect solution
21:49 rubenwardy   sofar,: unpack(arg)
21:49 rubenwardy   function foo(bar, ...)    local tab = unpack(arg)    end
21:49 rubenwardy   tab because ... in table form
21:49 rubenwardy   opposite of pack
21:50 rubenwardy   actually no
21:50 rubenwardy   arg is a table with the value of ...
21:50 rubenwardy   unpack turns a table into an arglist
21:51 rubenwardy   so you could do     start_timer(name, ...)     local def = {name=name, data=arg}   end
21:51 rubenwardy   https://www.lua.org/pil/5.2.html
21:52 sofar        I know unpack, minetest.after uses it
21:52 rubenwardy   unpack is the wrong one, arg is right
21:52 sofar        but it's use is limited since you can always use a nameless function and embed the data
21:53 sofar        minetest.after(4, function()...
21:53 sofar        and again, you can't rely on `arg` being serializable
21:53 sofar        and even table entries may change
21:54 sofar        suppose I pass a ref to a table entry, it may not exist after startup anymore
21:54 rubenwardy   warn about that then
21:54 sofar        or not do it
21:54 sofar        just use a local closure
21:54 sofar        or treat it as unsaved data
21:58 sofar        I mean, we're all just lazy because we write things like
21:58 sofar        minetest.after(5, minetest.set_node, pos, node)
21:58 sofar        instead of the WAY more DIFFICULT *cough*
21:59 sofar        minetest.after(5, function() minetest.set_node(pos, node) end)
21:59 sofar        :)
21:59 nore         the first avoids closures and is more easy (in some sense) to serialize :)
21:59 sofar        the difference is literally: "function() ( )"
22:00 rubenwardy   does Timer define a timer type that can be started many times?
22:00 rubenwardy   or does it make a new timer instance
22:00 nore         rubenwardy: it doesn't :'(
22:00 sofar        no
22:00 sofar        a timer is a timer
22:00 sofar        a timer is not ten timers
22:00 sofar        a timer is ONE timer
22:02 rubenwardy   do you have any examples of loading timers?
22:02 sofar        linked, yes
22:02 sofar        https://github.com/minetest-mods/timer/blob/master/timerdemo/init.lua
22:02 sofar        there's 3 timers in that code example
22:04 rubenwardy   oh, so it DOES define a timer type, it just can only be started once
22:04 nore         yes
22:05 nore         that's completely useless imho, but *shrug*
22:05 sofar        ?
22:05 sofar        why useless?
22:05 nore         I mean, you often have events that make another event happen x time later
22:05 sofar        just make a new one
22:05 rubenwardy   what about buffs?
22:05 sofar        local t1, t2
22:06 sofar        moar timers
22:06 nore         hmm, not useless because there are cases I see where it is usefull
22:06 nore         i.e. executing an event every x seconds
22:06 nore         but
22:06 sofar        I can make it execute N times too
22:06 nore         for the thing executing an event x seconds after another one
22:06 rubenwardy   you'd have to make another timer with the exact same table and the same key as one that's defined at load time
22:07 nore         with it being persistent which is want we can't do in minetest.after
22:07 nore         it doesn't help
22:07 nore         *what
22:07 sofar        show me a scenario
22:07 sofar        I think you're not seeing that this code can support that
22:07 sofar        easily
22:07 sofar        we can frob all sorts of useless bits into the class
22:08 nore         okay
22:08 sofar        or use it smarter
22:08 nore         so
22:08 sofar        I don't know what the right answer is
22:08 sofar        but I do know that making swiss army knifes is not a good way to do OOP
22:09 nore         you have a tool
22:09 nore         that when you right-click on a node
22:09 nore         after 10s, the node turns into gold
22:09 nore         of course, the tool only has a limited number of uses, so you don't want to lose any event
22:10 nore         how do you do that?
22:10 sofar        counter argument
22:10 sofar        you right click an entity
22:10 sofar        after 10 seconds, the entity poops a golden egg
22:10 nore         counter argument?
22:10 sofar        how do you do that?
22:10 sofar        you can't serialize the object
22:10 sofar        the entity could be missing after a server restart
22:11 sofar        or, dead
22:11 nore         that's your problem
22:11 nore         nodes positions exist at all times
22:11 sofar        #define "your"
22:11 sofar        "sofar's" ?
22:11 nore         what I mean is
22:11 sofar        the mod using the timer class?
22:12 nore         what you want to do with the entity is using the reference again later
22:12 nore         that could have problems even without persistent timers
22:12 nore         the problem of the person writing the mod :p
22:12 nerzhul      sofar, i'm re-adding the player files backend on #5475
22:12 nore         so for that you have to take care anyway
22:12 rubenwardy   https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/46caffac4196b64d661f2ad3fbdac7a3
22:13 nerzhul      i'm plug-in it like a database
22:13 nore         however, for something that's a node position
22:13 sofar        s/you/mod_writer/
22:13 nore         nothing can happen
22:13 nore         yes
22:13 sofar        well generally when 2 people talk, and one says "you" they mean the other person in the conversation
22:14 rubenwardy   your solution means that a different function could be run after a shutdown. Whilst this may be useful, it'll cause more problems than it solves - what if they don't have a timer in the root scope?
22:14 nore         rubenwardy: yes, that's what I want :)
22:14 rubenwardy   see gist
22:15 rubenwardy   updated gist to more match sofar's api
22:16 sofar        can we please stop writing API's using minetest.register_nopnsense()?
22:17 rubenwardy   I updated it
22:17 rubenwardy   and also it's nice when APIs are consistent
22:17 sofar        minetest.timer_interval?
22:17 rubenwardy   the content is important, not the naming of functions
22:17 nore         hmm, I think rubenwardy meant the_timer_name:run(...)
22:18 nore         same thing :p
22:18 rubenwardy   there you are, updated
22:18 nore         you can remove the "mod:event" as well
22:19 rubenwardy   updated again
22:19 sofar        s/timer_type/t/ (it's not a "_type")
22:19 sofar        lol
22:19 rubenwardy   it is
22:19 rubenwardy   well, it's not a language type
22:20 rubenwardy   timer_def may be clearer
22:20 sofar        you know what
22:20 sofar        I think we can do that
22:20 rubenwardy   the point is that it's bad to get conflicting function definitions after serialisation
22:20 sofar        differently though
22:20 sofar        here's now
22:21 sofar        well no, hmm
22:21 sofar        I need to think about it a bit
22:21 sofar        but, not sure I like it yet
22:22 sofar        what I think I can do
22:22 sofar        is this
22:22 sofar        instead of t:start()
22:22 sofar        you can do
22:22 sofar        local t_1 = t:start(param1, param2, param3)
22:23 sofar        that makes a new timer instance
22:23 sofar        or something like that
22:24 sofar        see the big problem I have is that you've made 2 objects instead of one
22:24 sofar        I'd ... just make 2 objects
22:24 nerzhul      sofar, #5475 needs you attention when timer:start()
22:24 Jordach      wooooooo
22:24 Jordach      got my energy back to develop
22:27 sofar        I can live with embedding/passing the data into the timer function, but you guys are making my OOP hurt with the request to make an object model that has 2 behaviors
22:27 sofar        you guys need a TimerManager() class around Timer()
22:28 Jordach      >OOP
22:28 Jordach      the door is that-a-way
22:29 Jordach      pack your shit
22:29 Jordach      </sarcasm>
22:29 sofar        I'm absolutely not a fan of OOP
22:29 Jordach      :D
22:29 Jordach      :DDDDDD
22:29 sofar        but lua does it nicely and elegantly that it's just stupid to not use it
22:30 Jordach      lua at least makes writing C hell of a lot easier
22:30 Jordach      (in the viewpoint of that lua is C but easier to write for another person)
22:32 sofar        I would have loved it if lua was a curly brace language
22:32 sofar        oh well
22:33 sofar        rubenwardy: what's wrong with e.g. ItemStack() and Settings() ?
22:33 nore         sofar: easy, just preprocess your files with s/{/begin/ and s/}/end/ :)
22:33 nore         hmm, doesn't work for if/then though
22:33 sofar        x = begin a = 5, c = 6, end
22:34 nore         heh
22:34 rubenwardy   those are fine as they have no side effects
22:34 nore         ^ this is valid OCaml code btw :p
22:34 sofar        ocaml? ocaml!
22:35 sofar        that language should come with a warning: WRITTEN BY FRENCH PEOPLE, BEWARE
22:35 nore         OCaml is nice :)
22:35 nore         aaaand?
22:35 nore         OCaml is a wonderful language
22:36 sofar        []
22:36 sofar        there's a bar of soap
22:36 sofar        go wash your mouth :)
22:36 * nore       only sees an empty list
22:37 nerzhul      OCaml is just a crappy language :p
22:37 nerzhul      it's like Minitel vs Internet :D
22:38 Jordach      sofar, nore is french ;)
22:38 nore         print_endline ("OCaml is a " ^ (match talking_to with "sofar" | "nerzhul" -> "" | _ -> "wonderful ") ^ "programming language.")
22:38 nore         :)
22:38 Jordach      it explains alot
22:38 sofar        Jordach: I'm well aware of most peoples' nationalities :)
22:38 nore         heh
22:38 Jordach      i forgot the space in a lot
22:39 Sokomine     nore: such people-translaters could be of general use :)
22:39 nore         Sokomine: :D
22:40 nore         I don't see why some people say OCaml is awful though :'(
22:41 Jordach      if i wanted a trash language i'd have learned java years ago
22:41 nore         when you have to work on complicated datatypes (like when you are writing a compiler), it is just so much more adapted than C/C++/Lua/Python/Java/etc
22:41 nore         and it has *pattern matching*
22:42 * nore       's eyes brighten when he sees a language provides pattern matching
22:43 Sokomine     hmpf. i'll never catch up reading the forum! new posts appear faster than ic an read...
22:43 rubenwardy   Haskell
22:44 rubenwardy   That's what I'm using to write a compile atm :)
22:45 nore         yeah, Haskell does this as well :)
22:45 nore         I prefer OCaml but this I can concede it's just a matter of taste ^^
22:45 nore         Sokomine: I gave up reading the forum looooooong ago
22:45 nore         even just reading the modding sections
22:47 Jordach      Sokomine, forum.minetest.net 127.0.0.1
22:48 Jordach      it's a mountain of shitposts at this point
22:48 Sokomine     jordach: *g* need to set that for all these people that post while i'm still trying to read :)
22:49 * Jordach    solves the sapling and plant growing issue entirely
22:49 Jordach      core:omni_*
22:49 nore         Jordach: how?
22:49 Jordach      nore, each plant registry under register_decoration does not count the others ratio
22:50 Jordach      i'm already using 0.000007 on trees in plains and it fails
22:50 Jordach      even at that precision
22:50 nore         what do you mean, it fails?
22:50 Jordach      nore, other registered decorations do not count towards placing it
22:50 nore         ah
22:50 nore         that's bad :/
22:50 Jordach      it's why i'm using omni plants
22:50 Fixer        *,..,*
22:50 Jordach      they're randomised during on_gen
22:51 Fixer        there is nice bot for jabber written in Ocaml
22:51 Fixer        i used this doing bot fights
22:51 Fixer        that was hilarious
22:51 * Jordach    forgot about the DJ Hero soundtrack again
22:52 Jordach      and blender broke again
22:52 Fixer        Jordach: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9KPANZWsAEzJoT.jpg
22:52 Jordach      fail as in total app crash
22:52 Fixer        Jordach: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9KPAOAW0AE_QUt.jpg
22:55 Fixer        long silence from Jordach
22:55 Jordach      uwot
22:56 sofar        Jordach: that just means you're using it correctly
22:57 Jordach      sofar, only when minimised
23:00 Jordach      Sokomine, farmed / grown lilac; http://i.imgur.com/T9YOwhL.png
23:00 Jordach      mesh is the grown on a flower bed variant
23:00 Jordach      wild ones are only the standard X shape
23:00 Jordach      and that fits in a block, i measured
23:13 sofar        10 surfaces?
23:14 sofar        so it makes 5 plants in a bunch, do I see that right?
23:14 Jordach      well, flowers grown in a flowerbed produce 5 plants
23:14 Jordach      considering you have to find them wild for the inital seed
23:15 Jordach      see https://github.com/Jordach/Solar_Plains/issues/6#issuecomment-291122699
23:15 sofar        no, I'm just talking about the visual
23:15 Jordach      eys
23:16 sofar        I see 10 surfaces, I'm assuming you're attempting to make "a bunch" of flowers in one obj
23:16 Jordach      yeeeep
23:16 Jordach      it'll look proper later on
23:16 sofar        well it doesn't look unproper now
23:16 Jordach      i mean in game
23:16 sofar        I'm just ... 10 surfaces for what looks like a bunch of 5 plants
23:17 Jordach      the engine doesn't do it for me, so
23:17 sofar        take out the middle one and go for 8/4 ?
23:17 sofar        could add it to meshoptions
23:17 Jordach      lemme place a few in world
23:17 sofar        the engine could do it
23:17 Jordach      sofar, the corners are actually different ;)
23:17 Jordach      they're not inline in a X shape
23:18 Jordach      they're 1/16th off to the left relative to that rotation
23:18 sofar        right, that can all go into meshoptions
23:18 Jordach      so there's no visual z-fighting
23:18 sofar        yes, of coure
23:18 sofar        that can all go into meshoptions
23:18 Jordach      sofar, and as usual, my mcore.options will support it
23:19 Jordach      makes it far easier to work with those bits
23:19 sofar        place_param2 = jordach_style_meshopt_value,
23:19 Jordach      top kek
23:19 Jordach      wait what
23:19 Jordach      place_param2
23:19 * Jordach    checks https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
23:20 Jordach      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3901
23:20 Jordach      DAAAAAMN
23:20 sofar        there's no client side prediction to that, though
23:20 sofar        (that's a bug)
23:22 Jordach      i'll ignore it for now
23:22 Jordach      but will be ready to roll whenever it's ready
23:24 Sokomine     any forum moderators present? looks like the lastest postings could get cleaned up...
23:24 sofar        I have the powers
23:24 sofar        but celeron55 doesn't want me to use them
23:24 Sokomine     nore: there are sometimes very intresting topics
23:25 Sokomine     Jordach: er. i've just handed my trees_lib over to sofar for minetest-mods. it does handle the saplings and node registration etc but isn't enitrely up to date with more recent changes like lbm
23:26 Sokomine     jordach: very nice that lilac. please get it added as a flower. not only to bfd
23:26 Jordach      Sokomine, you mean Solar Plains
23:27 Jordach      i've started from nothing
23:27 Jordach      and re-implemented everything over anew
23:28 Sokomine     Jordach: oh? working on a new game now instead of bfd? hope you'll make it a little easier for players :-)
23:28 Sokomine     btw, i could use some rape seed flowers....for farming. i'm still after those oil plants i'd love to have added to farming in mtg
23:29 Jordach      can do
23:29 Sokomine     that would be great :-)
23:29 Jordach      Sokomine, it's a redesign of BFD but in a less inane way
23:30 Jordach      and contains the next part of my design
23:31 Jordach      Sokomine, instead of how VE-S does trading and such
23:31 Jordach      i plan on something even fancier
23:32 Jordach      i've got a few programming logic sketches
23:32 Jordach      but other than that, it's a basic prototype
23:35 Sokomine     trading? what does that have got to do with it?
23:35 Jordach      multiplayer sucks without things to actually do
23:37 Jordach      http://i.imgur.com/z7lO9Ok.png Sokomine, sofar
23:38 Sokomine     ah yes, i remember you where planning something
23:38 Jordach      considering my ability to optimise everything in MT Lua wise
23:38 Sokomine     have you tried out brandonreeses adventuretest? the server with the most current version? it's pretty nicely done. i love that npc run around in the villages and even talk to a degree :-)
23:39 Jordach      Sokomine, don't let me have a crack at that ;)
23:39 Jordach      you know my talent for polish
23:39 Sokomine     Jordach: i don't like the style of the grass. but the flower is very nice
23:39 Jordach      Sokomine, always improvable
23:40 Sokomine     it's probably too bright for my taste. and just a diffrent style. but i really like the flower
23:41 Jordach      http://i.imgur.com/PoBviWd.png
23:41 Jordach      sand is considerably better
23:41 Jordach      and my ginger cat is giving me a cuddle
23:42 * Sokomine   grabs the cat and runs away with it
23:42 Jordach      he's a middle aged git
23:42 Jordach      he only really loves me and prefers sitting on my lap to anyone elses
23:43 Sokomine     :-)