Time Nick Message 19:04 MTDiscord just noticed there's some random new user who's now editing a bunch of translated wiki pages 19:05 MTDiscord should I let them know they're kinda wasting their time 19:05 MTDiscord is that a indirect reference that i really need to finish #15 ? 19:23 MTDiscord eh? 19:23 MTDiscord well, if you want it to be 19:27 MTDiscord Didn't see your second message before I sent that 19:27 MTDiscord someone linked me wiki dumps somewhere so i could save MTG stuff? 19:27 MTDiscord Probably. Could invite them to translate this :p 19:27 MTDiscord https://github.com/rollerozxa/mt-wiki-dumping-ground/blob/master/raw-exports/Luanti%2BWiki-20241220214815.xml 19:27 MTDiscord hope you like XML 19:28 MTDiscord thanks ❤️ 19:28 MTDiscord almost as much as PHP 🥰 19:29 MTDiscord I would probably want to figure out some way of better translating pages than copying them whole before throwing translators at the content 19:30 MTDiscord the translations on the wiki are a mess because you basically fork the original page and then when the translator leaves after a week it will never update from the upstream english version 19:30 MTDiscord haven't looked into how fancy hugo's i18n support is yet though 19:30 MTDiscord yeah, i was wondering if there was a better way of doing it. at least for mt/lt its just strings you update and can mark as stale 19:31 MTDiscord recently i saw a talk suggest that elitists hate php because it isn't hard enough, but i don't think that's the case 19:31 MTDiscord people hate php because it is hard for all the wrong reasons 19:33 MTDiscord the thing i hate most about php is its single run and done nature. also lack of multithread (yes fibers are a thing, but they truely are a joke) 19:35 MTDiscord also there's a bunch of dumps of wiki images in the repo too, but it's mostly from my old wiki mirror and most of it are low-res thumbs. don't know if preserving all the thousands of isometric render images for the MTG pages is of high importance 19:35 MTDiscord for the latter if you have the curl extension(who doesnt), there is the curl multi exec "hack" 19:38 MTDiscord > who doesnt your mother :trollface: 19:38 MTDiscord anyways, for multilingual, have a read of https://gohugo.io/content-management/multilingual/ and https://carlschwan.eu/2021/04/20/translating-hugo-based-websites-with-gettext/, the tldr is hugo natively supports translations, but its very much just take english page and translate it, with no real tooling to keep stuff up to date etc 19:38 MTDiscord probably should look into something that does per section updates and checking to see if its out of date and flag it with some warning or something 19:38 MTDiscord honestly with how good automatic translators are these days i'm not sure it's very worthwhile to try and maintain translations 19:39 MTDiscord deepl sponsorship? 19:39 MTDiscord such as? 19:39 MTDiscord or some ai model. iirc isnt there some tuned for translations? 19:39 MTDiscord yeah libretranslate 19:40 MTDiscord (though the quality of that is ehh... I assume there are better ones you can self-host but that aren't as FOSS-y) 19:42 MTDiscord There are edge cases, but they're rare I think. 19:42 MTDiscord I ran into one German word that DeepL can't even translate at all, but it's also not in the dictionary. 19:44 MTDiscord Also, it has to be a good translator like DeepL... Google Translate is still reasonably bad. 19:44 MTDiscord Google Translate gets even worse if the source text has mistakes. 19:44 MTDiscord worth noting that wuzzy will probably scream 19:44 MTDiscord . 19:47 MTDiscord anyways @luatic, I'm curious how much work you're thinking about doing for the MTG content 19:47 MTDiscord the simplest thing would be to have a script to run over the XML and convert the wikitext to markdown and write them to files, delete all the unrelated files and throw it into a repo 19:47 MTDiscord but, as I've mentioned earlier... there's quite the amount of mediawiki template magic in the MTG content for infoboxes, navboxes etc. 19:48 MTDiscord for the lulz, here is even the bad google translate on our lua code style guidelines. it is surprisingly comprehensible. 19:48 MTDiscord https://dev-luanti-org.translate.goog/engine-dev-process/lua-code-style-guidelines/?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 19:48 MTDiscord why are you translating it from ukrainian lol 19:49 MTDiscord (I assume google translate is smart enough to override that except in certain cases though) 19:49 MTDiscord It's comprehensible all right, I have to agree. 19:49 MTDiscord it is worth noting that browsers translate has gotten to the point where is get the point across enough 19:49 MTDiscord what i'm getting at in the end is that we should focus on producing a correct single source of truth in english. we should put translations aside completely for the moment. it should go into our long / medium term plans if at all. 19:49 MTDiscord agreed 19:50 MTDiscord it depends on how much i can automatize 19:50 MTDiscord in principle pandoc can convert the wikitext to markdown alright 19:50 MTDiscord yeah 19:50 MTDiscord yes 19:50 MTDiscord just for an example, this is how the apple page looks like when converted: https://gist.github.com/rollerozxa/78fb38c270502f5ae2079f613dfe9cad 19:51 MTDiscord the data itself for the templates are preserved, but they're mostly left as markers to either be stripped away or replaced with something else 19:51 MTDiscord honestly i might experiment with using chatjiptee to automate the tedious work (supervised by me of course) 19:51 MTDiscord we'll see how that goes 19:51 MTDiscord sounds good 19:52 MTDiscord -# * or another llm 19:52 MTDiscord (that is actually surprisingly effective haha) 19:53 MTDiscord the goal eventually still is to point wiki.minetest.net/luanti.org at dev site, right? still havent exactly decided what to do with the left over mtg stuff other than making it luatics problem? 19:53 MTDiscord yeah so pages will begin to properly redirect 19:54 MTDiscord though I assume we're still undecided on whether we should have dev.luanti.org move to wiki.luanti.org and redirect dev -> wiki, or we move dev.luanti.org to docs.luanti.org and redirect both to there 19:55 MTDiscord but that can be discussed later. I assume doing the latter would be best if we're shedding the wiki moniker altogether 19:55 MTDiscord yeah, thats deck chairs on the titantic to me. more so care that there "merged" 19:57 MTDiscord pokes roller about https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/32 since there is only two left 19:57 MTDiscord ah right 19:58 MTDiscord the custom fonts page I'll probably throw away altogether since luatic seems to be making proper custom fonts as media a reality :) 19:58 MTDiscord right to a name page I was thinking whether it should be on CDB, but I can just move it to here for now 20:00 MTDiscord once using blender is migrated, might want to make a /modeling or /3d or something and put blender, blockbench under it with the root talking about formats/versions since that luanti supports 20:01 MTDiscord this seems worthless, https://wiki.luanti.org/Using, should i strike it from the list? 20:01 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/926231483155378176/1323742762407039089/image.png?ex=67759f04&is=67744d84&hm=d9d7f61703a2a73db7ab52e6919e0e58ef4f622515509043824ddbe30684d59a& 20:01 MTDiscord yeah 20:02 MTDiscord done 20:02 MTDiscord I also mentioned minetest bower and (global) main menu music as pages that can be striked from the list 20:03 MTDiscord the latter has been broken ever since 5.5.0 and I don't really think it should come back as a feature (and the remnants in the documentation should be removed to reflect that) 20:03 MTDiscord bower can die, im not sure on the music one 20:04 MTDiscord sure 20:04 MTDiscord I mean I basically replaced the music page with a stub so it's not much work to convert it over 20:04 MTDiscord in there an process to deleting a page on the main wiki since i have rights to do that? 20:05 MTDiscord yeah in the "More" dropdown you'll have a delete option 20:05 MTDiscord i mean, is anyone going to scream at me if i delete it 20:05 MTDiscord mario be like: 20:05 MTDiscord anyone worth caring about 20:06 MTDiscord anyways, deleted bower from the wiki 20:06 MTDiscord probably a waste of my time to do that lol 20:06 MTDiscord I don't remember anyone screaming afterwards when I deleted like 500 pages that one time when I was admin 20:06 MTDiscord eh well, there was one person 20:06 MTDiscord c55 for some reason set my admin time to only be a year from when i cleaned up the spam for some reason 20:07 MTDiscord kinda weird, but whatever 20:07 MTDiscord not that i particularly care, esepcially given what we are doing anyways 20:07 MTDiscord yeah he did same for me too, year expiry for the admin rights 20:07 MTDiscord yeah the mediawiki instance will likely be in a deep sleep by the time it expires 😂 20:08 MTDiscord i half wonder if i edit my hosts file if the old dev wiki is still running 20:08 MTDiscord I actually tested that lol 20:08 MTDiscord oh? is it? 20:09 MTDiscord but the dev.minetest.net host is just a redirect to dev.luanti.org 20:09 MTDiscord ah 20:09 MTDiscord since c55 uses the same server to set up redirects for stuff 20:11 MTDiscord anyways, starting from the bottom of https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/15 and working my way up. will just check off as a i go along 20:11 MTDiscord if anyone wants to start from the top.... 20:15 MTDiscord I'll be merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/122 in 5m or so (final voxelmanip wiki import) 20:28 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/123 in 5 20:29 MTDiscord cc roller for wiki redirects, also notice the Debian page 20:30 MTDiscord hmm, why is latest ci failing? 20:34 MTDiscord yeah, this makes no sense 20:38 MTDiscord hmm 20:38 MTDiscord really can't tell if it's because of the angle brackets on those two pages or if it is completely unrelated 20:40 MTDiscord yeah, it was 20:40 MTDiscord fixed em 20:40 MTDiscord anyways, merging now 20:40 MTDiscord okay good 20:40 MTDiscord will do wiki redirects 20:41 MTDiscord thanks 20:46 MTDiscord does anyone actually use non english minetest irc channels? 20:46 MTDiscord no idea 20:47 MTDiscord they've probably been dead since the libera move if I would guess 20:47 MTDiscord likely same case with the rest of the IRC channels that aren't bridged to here, these are likely the only ones left with activity 20:49 MTDiscord for wiki /Main_Page i think im just going to graft some content from that into our root and mark that one as done 20:49 MTDiscord while a "redirect" for memes would be funny, probably shouldnt 20:50 MTDiscord I don't have write access to that page anyways, (un)fortunately 8) 20:50 MTDiscord i probably do, but i just took the 10 years to log out so that the site would load slightly faster for me 20:51 MTDiscord probably in the future should just icognito log in so i can just kill the browser as a faster logour 20:51 MTDiscord that or delete the cookie i suppose 20:55 MTDiscord a banner on the wiki main page maybe should be added to the top to tell people things are moving around and such. but I really can't be bothered to cook such a thing up