| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 05:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest-docs |
| 14:20 |
|
Blockhead256 joined #minetest-docs |
| 17:37 |
|
Desour joined #minetest-docs |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> just noticed there's some random new user who's now editing a bunch of translated wiki pages |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> should I let them know they're kinda wasting their time |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> is that a indirect reference that i really need to finish #15 ? |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> eh? |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> well, if you want it to be |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> Didn't see your second message before I sent that |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> someone linked me wiki dumps somewhere so i could save MTG stuff? |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> Probably. Could invite them to translate this :p |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> https://github.com/rollerozxa/mt-wiki-dumping-ground/blob/master/raw-exports/Luanti%2BWiki-20241220214815.xml |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> hope you like XML |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> thanks ❤️ |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> almost as much as PHP 🥰 |
| 19:29 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I would probably want to figure out some way of better translating pages than copying them whole before throwing translators at the content |
| 19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the translations on the wiki are a mess because you basically fork the original page and then when the translator leaves after a week it will never update from the upstream english version |
| 19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> haven't looked into how fancy hugo's i18n support is yet though |
| 19:30 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yeah, i was wondering if there was a better way of doing it. at least for mt/lt its just strings you update and can mark as stale |
| 19:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> recently i saw a talk suggest that elitists hate php because it isn't hard enough, but i don't think that's the case |
| 19:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> people hate php because it is hard for all the wrong reasons |
| 19:33 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> the thing i hate most about php is its single run and done nature. also lack of multithread (yes fibers are a thing, but they truely are a joke) |
| 19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> also there's a bunch of dumps of wiki images in the repo too, but it's mostly from my old wiki mirror and most of it are low-res thumbs. don't know if preserving all the thousands of isometric render images for the MTG pages is of high importance |
| 19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> for the latter if you have the curl extension(who doesnt), there is the curl multi exec "hack" |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> > who doesnt your mother :trollface: |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> anyways, for multilingual, have a read of https://gohugo.io/content-management/multilingual/ and https://carlschwan.eu/2021/04/20/translating-hugo-based-websites-with-gettext/, the tldr is hugo natively supports translations, but its very much just take english page and translate it, with no real tooling to keep stuff up to date etc |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> probably should look into something that does per section updates and checking to see if its out of date and flag it with some warning or something |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> honestly with how good automatic translators are these days i'm not sure it's very worthwhile to try and maintain translations |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> deepl sponsorship? |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> such as? |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> or some ai model. iirc isnt there some tuned for translations? |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah libretranslate |
| 19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (though the quality of that is ehh... I assume there are better ones you can self-host but that aren't as FOSS-y) |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> There are edge cases, but they're rare I think. |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I ran into one German word that DeepL can't even translate at all, but it's also not in the dictionary. |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Also, it has to be a good translator like DeepL... Google Translate is still reasonably bad. |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Google Translate gets even worse if the source text has mistakes. |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> worth noting that wuzzy will probably scream |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> . |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> anyways @luatic, I'm curious how much work you're thinking about doing for the MTG content |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the simplest thing would be to have a script to run over the XML and convert the wikitext to markdown and write them to files, delete all the unrelated files and throw it into a repo |
| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> but, as I've mentioned earlier... there's quite the amount of mediawiki template magic in the MTG content for infoboxes, navboxes etc. |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> for the lulz, here is even the bad google translate on our lua code style guidelines. it is surprisingly comprehensible. |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> https://dev-luanti-org.translate.goog/engine-dev-process/lua-code-style-guidelines/?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> why are you translating it from ukrainian lol |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (I assume google translate is smart enough to override that except in certain cases though) |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> It's comprehensible all right, I have to agree. |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> it is worth noting that browsers translate has gotten to the point where is get the point across enough |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> what i'm getting at in the end is that we should focus on producing a correct single source of truth in english. we should put translations aside completely for the moment. it should go into our long / medium term plans if at all. |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> agreed |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> it depends on how much i can automatize |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> in principle pandoc can convert the wikitext to markdown alright |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yes |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> just for an example, this is how the apple page looks like when converted: https://gist.github.com/rollerozxa/78fb38c270502f5ae2079f613dfe9cad |
| 19:51 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the data itself for the templates are preserved, but they're mostly left as markers to either be stripped away or replaced with something else |
| 19:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> honestly i might experiment with using chatjiptee to automate the tedious work (supervised by me of course) |
| 19:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> we'll see how that goes |
| 19:51 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> sounds good |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> -# * or another llm |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (that is actually surprisingly effective haha) |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> the goal eventually still is to point wiki.minetest.net/luanti.org at dev site, right? still havent exactly decided what to do with the left over mtg stuff other than making it luatics problem? |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah so pages will begin to properly redirect |
| 19:54 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> though I assume we're still undecided on whether we should have dev.luanti.org move to wiki.luanti.org and redirect dev -> wiki, or we move dev.luanti.org to docs.luanti.org and redirect both to there |
| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> but that can be discussed later. I assume doing the latter would be best if we're shedding the wiki moniker altogether |
| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yeah, thats deck chairs on the titantic to me. more so care that there "merged" |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> pokes roller about https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/32 since there is only two left |
| 19:57 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> ah right |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the custom fonts page I'll probably throw away altogether since luatic seems to be making proper custom fonts as media a reality :) |
| 19:58 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> right to a name page I was thinking whether it should be on CDB, but I can just move it to here for now |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> once using blender is migrated, might want to make a /modeling or /3d or something and put blender, blockbench under it with the root talking about formats/versions since that luanti supports |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> this seems worthless, https://wiki.luanti.org/Using, should i strike it from the list? |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/926231483155378176/1323742762407039089/image.png?ex=67759f04&is=67744d84&hm=d9d7f61703a2a73db7ab52e6919e0e58ef4f622515509043824ddbe30684d59a& |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah |
| 20:02 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> done |
| 20:02 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I also mentioned minetest bower and (global) main menu music as pages that can be striked from the list |
| 20:03 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the latter has been broken ever since 5.5.0 and I don't really think it should come back as a feature (and the remnants in the documentation should be removed to reflect that) |
| 20:03 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> bower can die, im not sure on the music one |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> sure |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I mean I basically replaced the music page with a stub so it's not much work to convert it over |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> in there an process to deleting a page on the main wiki since i have rights to do that? |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah in the "More" dropdown you'll have a delete option |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> i mean, is anyone going to scream at me if i delete it |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<csperson> mario be like: |
| 20:05 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> anyone worth caring about |
| 20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> anyways, deleted bower from the wiki |
| 20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> probably a waste of my time to do that lol |
| 20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I don't remember anyone screaming afterwards when I deleted like 500 pages that one time when I was admin |
| 20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> eh well, there was one person |
| 20:06 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> c55 for some reason set my admin time to only be a year from when i cleaned up the spam for some reason |
| 20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> kinda weird, but whatever |
| 20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> not that i particularly care, esepcially given what we are doing anyways |
| 20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah he did same for me too, year expiry for the admin rights |
| 20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah the mediawiki instance will likely be in a deep sleep by the time it expires 😂 |
| 20:08 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> i half wonder if i edit my hosts file if the old dev wiki is still running |
| 20:08 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I actually tested that lol |
| 20:08 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> oh? is it? |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> but the dev.minetest.net host is just a redirect to dev.luanti.org |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> ah |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> since c55 uses the same server to set up redirects for stuff |
| 20:11 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> anyways, starting from the bottom of https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/15 and working my way up. will just check off as a i go along |
| 20:11 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> if anyone wants to start from the top.... |
| 20:15 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I'll be merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/122 in 5m or so (final voxelmanip wiki import) |
| 20:28 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/123 in 5 |
| 20:29 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> cc roller for wiki redirects, also notice the Debian page |
| 20:30 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> hmm, why is latest ci failing? |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yeah, this makes no sense |
| 20:38 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> hmm |
| 20:38 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> really can't tell if it's because of the angle brackets on those two pages or if it is completely unrelated |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yeah, it was |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> fixed em |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> anyways, merging now |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> okay good |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> will do wiki redirects |
| 20:41 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> thanks |
| 20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> does anyone actually use non english minetest irc channels? |
| 20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> no idea |
| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> they've probably been dead since the libera move if I would guess |
| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> likely same case with the rest of the IRC channels that aren't bridged to here, these are likely the only ones left with activity |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> for wiki /Main_Page i think im just going to graft some content from that into our root and mark that one as done |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> while a "redirect" for memes would be funny, probably shouldnt |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I don't have write access to that page anyways, (un)fortunately 8) |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> i probably do, but i just took the 10 years to log out so that the site would load slightly faster for me |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> probably in the future should just icognito log in so i can just kill the browser as a faster logour |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> that or delete the cookie i suppose |
| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> a banner on the wiki main page maybe should be added to the top to tell people things are moving around and such. but I really can't be bothered to cook such a thing up |
