Time Nick Message 04:03 MTDiscord given the above, im going to be slightly annoying in saying this, but @rollerozxa and @grorp if you have a sec or 8 years depending on wiki loading time to look at the list in https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/15 and see what stuff can be cut to avoid wasting time converting it id appreciate it. the list is a rough pass of anything that could potentially be useful while obvious mtg stuff, etc was ignored 04:27 MTDiscord going to also push here for docs members/community to either like https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/64#issuecomment-2552719172 or comment why not. 04:27 MTDiscord if no real objections, pretty easy to stick that on a page and get the issue closed 12:57 MTDiscord Gonna work on https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/83: Add spellchecker 13:07 MTDiscord Might look at https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/issues/84: "Add formatter" today as well, focusing on my personal strengths for now. The a11y checker is still high on my list though! 13:25 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/81 in 10m unless someone else wants to have a look at the mapgen page 13:35 mark-wiemer left one comment out of curiosity 13:46 MTDiscord pushing a commit to remove the "usually" wording from the custom lua mapgen page 13:47 mark-wiemer https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/86 - Add cSpell for local spell checking 14:17 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/87 in 5m (trivial changes) 14:19 MTDiscord also I was looking at the imported "backup solutions" page and... boy is this dangerous advice 14:19 MTDiscord I'll likely cook up a new version of it with some info I have gained from doing live sqlite backups on my server 14:23 mark-wiemer From the changelog: 14:23 mark-wiemer * Sneak-sumping onto a stack of 2 nodes is again possible (_SmallJoker_) 14:23 mark-wiemer Is that a typo, or is sumping a Luanti thing??? 14:24 mark-wiemer 5.9.0 → 5.9.1 14:25 MTDiscord I think I know what it refers to, but I don't know if "sneak-sumping" is the right word for it 14:26 MTDiscord I don't know any better word to describe it though 14:26 mark-wiemer Is it related to falling off an edge while sneaking? 14:26 mark-wiemer In any case, glad it's not a "jumping" typo, adding it to our known-words list for now 14:28 mark-wiemer * Collision moveresult now provide the object's own position (_grorp_) 14:28 mark-wiemer Is "moveresult" a proper noun for a programming variable or can it be split into two words? 14:29 MTDiscord moveresult is the proper term, it's a table with collision info 14:29 MTDiscord (see e.g. on_step(self, dtime, moveresult) for entities) 14:32 mark-wiemer Thanks :) 14:37 MTDiscord ROllerozxa: shouldn't https://dev.luanti.org/game-theme-reimplementation/ be part of https://dev.luanti.org/distributing-luanti-games/ ? 14:39 MTDiscord either that or there should probably be a link. but the "distributing luanti games" page needs a lot of work otherwise 14:55 mark-wiemer https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/88 - Add spell-checker and start fixups, ready for review :) 14:59 MTDiscord looks nice 15:00 MTDiscord are you gonna do more pushes in the same PR or can I review it as things are now? 15:17 MTDiscord I assume it is good as-is so I'll go ahead and merge it 15:19 MTDiscord ...I was meaning to merge PR 87 like an hour ago. silly me 16:07 MTDiscord Anyone want to take a look at https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/89? in particular the section for live backups 16:11 MTDiscord can we somehow set a max width for images? currently they're full width it seems, taking up way too much space 16:11 MTDiscord (working on fixing the rest of the MTG content) 16:17 MTDiscord would be nice - I'm unsure we can add global CSS that the theme will pick up 16:17 MTDiscord (wsor might know) 16:24 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/90 in 5m (just an import from the regular wiki) 17:05 MTDiscord Yes we can defs use vanilla CSS to do that 🙂 ref the style issue, see also the previous PR by wsor that added a one-line .css file, we can expand on that 17:10 MTDiscord Ref https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/67 - "Make content wider by default" 17:11 MTDiscord https://dev.luanti.org/mapgen/evolution/ has multiple missing images - has something gone wrong with the import? 17:13 MTDiscord looks like it 17:13 MTDiscord see https://wiki.luanti.org/index.php?title=Map_Generator_Evolution&oldid=28475 for the original page 17:16 MTDiscord (whether all 5 of those images in the indev section on the page should be imported over is another question though, I assume that was why wsor skipped them) 17:19 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/926231483155378176/1320078131834519562/image.png?ex=67684a10&is=6766f890&hm=ecf4d3b7ad45249712488f5debf51e45d46046eb1f0f04f1b6c6d1edc87f30f0& 17:19 MTDiscord "mountains were made more pronounced" LOL this always cracks me up, they look like chunk errors 17:20 MTDiscord lol 17:20 MTDiscord they practically are 17:21 MTDiscord looks like the whole chunk-sized column was just lifted up into the air without any attempt at smoothing 17:29 MTDiscord hmm, also the image captions from the wiki page were not imported. that's unfortunate. 17:59 MTDiscord not sure if they globally should be made smaller 18:00 MTDiscord yeah I checked and they do scale down when the page width is smaller, but we have no way of specifying it to be even smaller 18:01 MTDiscord (for the image include in my blog (jekyll) I have a max_width argument so I can make things smaller while keeping the size of the original image) 18:01 MTDiscord you can specific an alt via markdown, so what one could do is replace alt with size: alt and then css select with the partial match operator for size: to limit it 18:01 MTDiscord kinda a hack, totally never done it before 18:01 MTDiscord otherwise tables 18:01 MTDiscord haha that's clever 18:03 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/81 shouldnt have been merged, should have kept the various mapgen pages with a short snippet, since there linked to, worth having, etc 18:03 MTDiscord deleting the content on them was fine 18:07 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/91 in 5 18:08 MTDiscord any objection to me doing the latter? short snippet stub for now? 18:09 MTDiscord fair enough I suppose 18:09 MTDiscord should we move the section for each mapgen in the mapgen "index" page to these new pages? 18:11 MTDiscord https://dev.luanti.org/mapgen/#overview should probably stay, add a link to each, and then drag the image of each + https://dev.luanti.org/mapgen/#description section to each 18:12 MTDiscord sounds good 18:12 MTDiscord afk a bit 18:48 MTDiscord I disagree with adding a stub for each mapgen 18:49 MTDiscord but moving the detailed description from the index page to separate pages for each mapgen would be ok 18:50 MTDiscord but please merge my open mapgen PRs first to avoid conflicts 18:51 MTDiscord "merging 91 in 5"... hours 18:52 MTDiscord (I'll merge it) 18:55 MTDiscord and yeah I agree that the mapgen parameters page is not very useful with how redundant it is 19:03 MTDiscord Images should have a declared size for a11y. Imagine the page is loading slow for whatever reason, so you have paragraph, small empty space, next paragraph. Then the image loads and you have paragraph, big image, next paragraph. The next paragraph gets pushed down after the page has partially loaded in this case, very annoying for users. If we use CSS to declare size in advance, the page will start with "paragraph, big space the 19:03 MTDiscord exact size of the image, next paragraph" 🙂 19:04 MTDiscord We can open an issue 😉 to track learning how to declare sizes in MD+Hugo as the stuff mentioned earlier seems SUPER hacky and I'd be very sad if we merged it 19:05 MTDiscord That said, we should be able to globally declare a default image size in our CSS file without issue to get started and mitigate the issue. Each image can then declare its own size to be larger or smaller as needed based on context 19:13 MTDiscord for preventing CLS, shouldn't you specify the dimensions in HTML (or for us, some macro or shortcode), and then any CSS is to control the sizing of it beyond that? (e.g. max-width) 19:15 MTDiscord https://web.dev/articles/optimize-cls#modern_best_practice_for_setting_image_dimensions 19:34 MTDiscord (working on fixing the mapgen history page import) 21:33 MTDiscord RE CLS, I'm no expert, but it should be pretty easy to test. Using HTML would certainly be fastest from the end-user perspective, but using the CSS file should be fine as it should load nearly instantly anyway given its size and relative importance in the loading order. Ultimately I'd suggest trying to get it working with CSS for maintenance support, maybe we can move to HTML if there's any perceptible difference at that point 21:34 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/94 in 5 21:34 MTDiscord obviously we should aim to do stuff right/good whatever. i dont think that it really matters if it aint perfect. not trying to win at the seo game, etc 21:35 MTDiscord My goal is to do the 20% of the work that gets 80% of the benefit, then we can go further if things aren't good enough 🙂 21:38 MTDiscord did you read the linked article? 21:39 MTDiscord @rollerozxa @luatic @Josiah (Sie/Sie) If you have objections or questions, let them be known 21:40 MTDiscord roller: https://gohugo.io/render-hooks/images/ might be of interest 21:40 MTDiscord no idea how to hell you read the image height and width 21:40 MTDiscord interesting 21:40 MTDiscord totally wasnt reading it to see if i could just make hugo spit out webps for us 21:42 MTDiscord is this actually ready @grorp? see you have pushed another commit to it 21:42 MTDiscord ||draft prs exist|| 21:43 MTDiscord I did some scope-creep since I saw captions from another wiki page were also missing 21:43 MTDiscord would have been mergable as it was, is still mergable I think 21:44 MTDiscord I added a comment in the GH merge issue about captions, so that's officially being tracked 🙂 21:44 MTDiscord That's obviously right. Being perfectionist is dangerous in this context where there is basically infinite work to do. I suffer from perfectionism. 21:45 MTDiscord https://tenor.com/view/bonk-hammer-fwosty-hit-you-gif-2358590635403386123 21:45 MTDiscord jk 21:45 MTDiscord 🤔 <- me in reaction to that gif lol 21:46 MTDiscord going offline for a bit to focus on a different project 21:46 MTDiscord so should i take this as none? 21:46 MTDiscord Thanks for the great writeup, Green. Looks good to me. 21:47 MTDiscord I don't know if it makes sense to another pass before importing, wouldn't one just look at the page and decide whether to import it when doing it? 21:47 MTDiscord I was looking through them but I couldn't find much that could be cut 21:48 MTDiscord but maybe minetest bower and (global) main menu music could be removed (both pages that describe something that doesn't really exist anymore 21:48 MTDiscord Also, many pages are probably not either MTG content or engine content, but both mixed 21:48 MTDiscord So can't delete them, but can't import them without importing MTG content either 21:51 MTDiscord wait, wtf is this line > Proprietary software, or things under restrictive license terms in general, are currently NOT banned on the ContentDB. But they are currently (as of 5.9.0) being hidden by default in Luanti. https://wiki.luanti.org/ContentDB 21:51 MTDiscord iirc was nonfree hidden in the client by default always or is this something else? 21:51 MTDiscord it has always been hidden 21:52 MTDiscord I believe it means "as of 5.9.0 this is still the case", not "since that version" 21:52 MTDiscord wuzzy wrote that whole article so they might have some reason to use that kind of formulation 21:52 MTDiscord seems rather poor to be having a manual string to update every release 21:52 MTDiscord And proprietary mods are not possible or allowed, you have to have an OSI-approved license 21:53 MTDiscord honestly surprised it doesnt say 5.0.0 there lol 21:53 MTDiscord How do you do page imports so far? 21:53 MTDiscord page imports? 21:53 MTDiscord (I mean, what tool do you use for converting wiki to md?) 21:54 MTDiscord I use pandoc 21:54 MTDiscord https://urltomarkdown.com/, it ignores most of the wiki crap, but you have to go through it and clean up some of stuff in it. also adds the wiki title generally so you have to strip it off 21:55 MTDiscord ...or that 21:56 MTDiscord (pandoc --wrap=none -f mediawiki -t markdown $1.wikitext > $1.md) 21:59 MTDiscord Addendum: CDB policy states "ContentDB will clearly label any packages with non-free licenses, and they will be subject to limited promotion", but also says "Licenses that prohibit redistribution or modification are completely banned from ContentDB and the Luanti forums" ... meaning a proprietary license is fundamentally impossible to use as far as I understand. But as usual, CDB policy fails to be direct about the subject. 22:00 MTDiscord (i know) 22:01 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/92 in 5 22:02 MTDiscord So anyway, this line reads like someone got mad about something that they didn't understand and it should really just say "Packages with licenses prohibiting distribution or modification are banned from ContentDB. Any license which limits distribution or modification will be hidden by default in the Luanti client." or something, and with links to policy pages 22:14 MTDiscord arguably should also move the mapgen-specific stuff from "Mapgen features" to each mapgen's page when doing this 22:16 MTDiscord I'm trying my hands at importing https://wiki.luanti.org/Terminology (mentioning it to avoid duplicated work) 22:19 MTDiscord that's a good choice of a page :) 22:19 MTDiscord (I... think that was one I had moved from the dev wiki to the regular wiki some years ago) 22:20 MTDiscord but when it comes to converting wikitext to markdown, we generally have it quite easy because the non-MTG wiki pages are the ones that don't use a lot of mediawiki template magic and it translates pretty easily to markdown 22:56 MTDiscord merging https://github.com/minetest/dev.luanti.org/pull/97 in 5m 23:44 MTDiscord FWIW RE CLS, the current site is pretty good. As soon an image starts to load, it reserves its entire space. And images start to load VERY quickly, even with network throttled to "Slow 4G" in Edge devtools 23:44 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/926231483155378176/1320175094320070686/image.png?ex=6768a45e&is=676752de&hm=eab07ef576b06c1a0c9983eba9da5d3ac46dd8f78dfd3f29235a9cc1fefc2cd3& 23:50 rubenwardy CC BY SA NC is the only allowed proprietary license on CDB 23:52 rubenwardy https://content.luanti.org/packages/?flag=nonfree