Time Nick Message 00:56 [MatrxMT] it'd be nice to include #15708 in 5.11 as it's a really teeny tiny feature that can help server admins against script kiddies without having to compile the server ourselves 00:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15708 -- Expose client version information in non-debug builds by rollerozxa 00:56 [MatrxMT] *modified server 00:58 MTDiscord +1 08:18 sfan5 why should we make an exception in feature freeze for this but not other things? 10:20 [MatrxMT] There are many hacked clients out there and it allows us to easily get rid to at least a part of them. But that's also why I asked: I don't expect exceptions to be made, just wanted to try as it's something really small that can't have side effects whilst incredibly helping at the same time 10:41 celeron55 if most servers start blocking cheat clients, it will only take days for cheat clients to start faking the client name. it's a losing battle likely not worth even starting 10:49 MTDiscord the most popular cheat client intentionally puts its name in the version string to make it detectable, because it's only intended for servers where usage of such are allowed (anarchy servers) 10:51 MTDiscord servers already check it and it is rather effective because the average cheat client user does not know how to compile something. we've spread the information about patching out this limitation in the unmodified server build through word of mouth between server owners for a long time 11:00 celeron55 well, that is nice to hear, but i can't stop thinking it all is essentially hanging from a string 11:01 celeron55 anyway, i'll not mess with the process 13:29 MTDiscord There are many other clients other than dragonfire client, one being otter even one of my own client. Most of the servers can’t detect them because they’re new or they randomize the strings and since there are android builds available so they become annoying. It’ll be a great addition to minetest to be honest 15:03 MTDiscord doing anything "clever" (such as randomization) with the string sounds like a surefire way to be detected. 15:04 MTDiscord but as has been said, good faith cheat clients that distribute builds tend to advertise this fact in their version string, and being able to detect them is worth something. 15:05 MTDiscord but that isn't the only use case of this feature. besides more detailed stats, this feature can help server owners and moderators give version-specific advice to players. 15:08 MTDiscord The fact that cheat clients are offering server owners this information voluntarily, which server owners want, but the server-side engine says "no thanks, we're all good" and rejects it, is frankly pretty comical. 15:19 Desour maybe this is part of a secret plan. either side, server owners and cheaters, can easily win via a small change and recompile. first make them modify and build the source, then make them contribute. 15:19 Desour follow me for more conspiracy theories 15:49 sfan5 @luatic are you envisioning telling people to upgrade if their patch version is zero? 16:03 MTDiscord 😆 16:20 MTDiscord not exactly. but yes generally tech support kind of things (for which it will eventually also be useful to be able to tell client platform, similar to how we already share it in the user agent). 16:32 MTDiscord I think server owners would not be telling users that their client is outdated merely because it is (that'd be the job of Luanti itself) but they might want to warn users if their client version is going to affect their experience, like if there's a feature on the server specifically that's affected by a known bug. 16:58 MTDiscord For a while we had a "this content is accessible, but will look terrible with your client version" messages on some stuff. Not sure how much is left of that. 17:18 MTDiscord I had some stuff like that but eventually those client versions became sufficiently old that I just dropped support for them. I could theoretically try to support much older clients, but there's no real incentive for that, outside of multicraft, and I really think some effort should come from multicraft if that's to be a thing. 19:34 MTDiscord Heh, before I hadn't really bothered with the feature, but now that I've thought about it ... I just patched out the whole #ifndef NDEBUG thing on my server build so that I just get all the information.