Time Nick Message 00:11 MTDiscord what do you guys think of this #13746 00:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13746 -- rename MTG to something less confusing 02:30 lhofhansl Hi. I'd like to finish #13093. Maybe someone can have another look. Thanks. 02:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13093 -- Avoid movement jitter while attached by lhofhansl 02:41 jonadab @fatalisterror : Not sure a rename will fix that as long as the "game" (i.e., the client) doesn't ship with anything better. It should probably ship with a couple of puzzle games (maybe Nodecore), Dreambuilder, and something that's like MTG but has a dozen of the most important progression/infrastructure mods built into it (mesecons, pipeworks, technic, digtron, moreores, moretrees, one of the 02:41 jonadab better farming mods, travelnet, ...) 02:42 MTDiscord the most optimal place for dreambuilder is /dev/null 02:42 jonadab I understand why it doesn't, but if larger player base were a goal... 02:43 jonadab Heh. I do have issues with some of the stuff DB has in it. homedecor and whatnot. But some people like it. 02:43 jonadab Hmm, probably should also ship with a combat-oriented game, as much as I personally hate them. 02:44 jonadab However, I'm not sure larger player base _is_ a goal for the devs. I think they may be more interested in a more technically inclined audience, people who write code. 02:46 MTDiscord Renaming MTG is one of those things that could be made a lot easier after the mythical main menu redesign is done. 03:01 MTDiscord I agree Jonadab, it won't entirely fix the misconception of what people thing minetest has to offer, but I think it'll certainly help. We can start with this, as the naming is arguably confusing, and then one day ship it with popular game packages 03:01 MTDiscord think* 03:01 MTDiscord and not arguably, actually, just definitely confusing 03:01 MTDiscord sorry, tired. 03:02 MTDiscord Renaming things seems like it should be the simplest solution, but unfortunately it's also the most eminently bikesheddable. If we were any good at getting renames pushed through, we wouldn't be Minetest anymore. 03:08 MTDiscord Minetest is an ok name, imo. Sure it's not flashy, but it's not particularly confusing, either. 03:09 MTDiscord tbh it'd be pretty easy to make the change, you'd really just need to change the logo of MTG, change the repo name, the readme and documentation and CDB 03:19 MTDiscord It'd be technically easy to make the change, but the "get everyone to agree" part has always been what's stopped us in the past, not any of the technical stuff. 03:20 MTDiscord Considering that consensus seems to be a scarce resource, I'm not sure if I like the idea of spending it on that. 03:42 MTDiscord why does everyone have to agree, why is this not a dictorial regime where core devs have final say 03:42 MTDiscord jokes aside, this is how it should wokr 03:42 MTDiscord work* 03:42 MTDiscord there's always going to be someone mad about something 03:43 MTDiscord You don't need everyone to agree, you just need 2 core devs to agree, and nobody to disagree hard enough to give those core devs pause. 03:44 MTDiscord Yeah, there will always be somebody mad about something ... but historically it has been far more likely that it ends up being the one who's demanding a rename. 03:45 MTDiscord It's just tiring having the same arguments over and over 😩 03:45 MTDiscord that's not what I mean. There's always someone who will oppose change for no reason Warr 03:45 MTDiscord or maybe an insignifficant reason 03:46 MTDiscord Well, either way, you filed your issue, and us discussing is probably doesn't matter anyway, it'll be dealt with in the comment thread. 03:47 MTDiscord 🤷‍♂️ 03:48 MTDiscord Who knows, maybe you'll have some luck this time. I'm just ... not going to get too hopeful. 03:48 MTDiscord yeah... good point 03:48 MTDiscord I've made about a million issues 03:51 MTDiscord You might find traction easier to get in changing how it's presented on CDB, short of a full rename (e.g. expanding the descriptions to be more explicit about what it is and isn't). But the audience for that is limited, seeing as only a few fields are currently visible in the in-game browser, and that only affects updates, not new installs, currently. 04:43 MTDiscord Important to attend to soon https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/3051 05:05 MTDiscord bruh 05:05 MTDiscord thas fucked up 05:05 MTDiscord how much other shit is copyright 06:01 celeron55 should probably review all textures added by RBA. he was one of those people who didn't seem to come from an open source background 13:09 rubenwardy does that mean we need to do 5.8.1 13:35 rubenwardy *5.7.1 13:35 rubenwardy we should probably release 5.8.0 at some point 14:14 MTDiscord "didn't seem to come from an open source background" ... inb4 FOSS contributors start having to prove they passed "copyright school" before their contributions can be accepted... 14:15 MTDiscord (there actually are educational materials available, I think the EFF has one or something, though IIRC they're mostly intended for individual creators, so maybe not as much focus on the downstream impacts) 14:38 celeron55 well, it's certainly recommended reading. but i wouldn't go as far as require proof they've done their reading 8-) 14:45 MTDiscord We actually do de facto require signals from people that they know what the hell they're talking about, we just usually prefer to do it in a "subtle" way. The license itself actually works toward that purpose: they prove they understand the lexicon of licensing and that gives us some confidence that they knew how to do certain due diligence. It's just that that confidence isn't meeting our needs as well as it might have decades 14:45 MTDiscord ago... 16:39 jonadab Honestly, images are particularly problematic (in terms of people thinking it's ok to just ignore licensing issues) and should probably require a copyright review before being accepted, just in general. 16:40 jonadab At least a third of the general population thinks that anything you draw yourself is automatically free of copyright, even if what you drew was a picture of Mickey Mouse. 16:41 jonadab And I've personally met several people who think everything on Google Images is in the public domain. 16:42 rubenwardy yeah I agree - we should have a checklist that we make people who contribute sign, certifying that they didn't use MC images as a base 16:42 rubenwardy etc 16:42 jonadab Heck, I once had to explain to a person with a _degree in library sciences_ that we couldn't put images on our website if we didn't have a valid distribution license for them. 16:46 jonadab The open-source community is so hyper-aware of copyright issues that there can be a tendency to assume other people know about them too. But it is frequently not the case. 17:13 rubenwardy #13752 17:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13752 -- Settings GUI: Use language names rather than labels by rubenwardy 18:36 celeron55 i've discussed with grorp their possible addition to the engine team, and would be ready to add them. any comments? 18:36 celeron55 i think i'll wait for comments/objections until tomorrow 18:38 celeron55 well, if 3 people from the engine team comment, i'll go ahead and do it today 18:38 MTDiscord @rubenwardy 19:05 Desour grorp seems competent and overall nice. +1 from me if they want to become coredev 19:58 sfan5 agreed 19:58 sfan5 will they be availabe on irc tho? 20:06 celeron55 i guess via discord 20:06 celeron55 do you want me to ask? 20:09 celeron55 my belief is that this channel has been set up to be easy enough to access from many enough places that it doesn't need to be worried about. but there definitely is the possibility that the situation could degrade 20:11 sfan5 should be fine 21:15 MTDiscord @grorp