Time Nick Message 00:00 MTDiscord exactly 00:00 MTDiscord Take the advise of those who have been down this road before and let it die? 00:00 MTDiscord Put your efforts elsewhere 00:02 MTDiscord MTG, in name, legacy, contents, and role hurts the Minetest community as a whole. Something new doesn't. 06:32 MTDiscord how's the current plan for dynamic shadows looking like? is it still going to be compiled out right before release? 07:17 celeron55 i see no further response from the game team to appguru being added so i'll do it 08:44 sfan5 "compiled out" looks like will be the case yes 08:54 MTDiscord > compiling out a feature you just added 08:54 MTDiscord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzgwYhDyLH0 10:00 MTDiscord I feel ashamed to be sharing the discord bridge with you 10:13 sfan5 you can always join IRC directly ;) 12:37 MTDiscord SpatialAreaStore never defines the id_type it passes to the RTree constructor. 12:38 MTDiscord And I suspect this is the cause of a NotSupportedException I got while writing unit tests. 13:02 MTDiscord That may not be it. 13:51 MTDiscord That's not it. It has something to do with brace ininialization, initializer lists, and possibly default constructors and inheritance. 13:51 MTDiscord In other words, the usual C++ terrors. 13:53 MTDiscord If anybody has an idea why MySubClass var {}; would exhibit different behavior than MySubClass var; please do explain. 13:59 erlehmann josiah_wi is this a direct initialization without calling constructor thing? 14:00 erlehmann oh, ignore my musing, i thought of structs 14:00 MTDiscord Sorry, misread this whole time. 14:00 MTDiscord It's a different test that's failing. 16:08 MTDiscord Do the core devs have a strong preference about whether private members should be listed before or after public ones? 18:09 rubenwardy we haven't released for 11 months, imo waiting an extra week for a dynamic shadows API to finalise isn't that significant 18:09 rubenwardy how stable are shadows? 18:15 erlehmann i think the more important question is: have features unrelated to shadows that were broken all been fixed? 18:16 erlehmann i recall x2048 having done some work on anaglyph mode recently? 18:16 erlehmann shipping something where existing features break due to a new feature is IMO way worse than shipping a partially broken new feature 18:17 MTDiscord My question is: why disable shadows instead of marking them as experimental and subject to change? 18:17 MTDiscord "These aren't perfect, but you can mess around with them since they're here while we finish them up" 18:18 MTDiscord Sure, some games look bad with them turned on, but tonemapping got merged despite being a completely useless feature now didn't it? 18:19 erlehmann past mistakes do not justify future mistakes 18:19 MTDiscord ^ for once i can agree 18:20 MTDiscord Sure, but don't ignore my other point please. 18:21 MTDiscord im fine with shadows in 5.5 if something like https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11944 is merged so that games/mods have control instead of the usual minetest pulling the rug out from under game/mods devs with client things they cant work around 18:21 rubenwardy #11944 is the ideal implementation 18:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11944 -- Proposal: API to control shadow intensity from the game/mod by x2048 18:21 rubenwardy well, minus the inefficiency if the client enables servers but the server disables them 18:21 rubenwardy (as they won't be compiled out) 18:22 MTDiscord enables shadows you mean? 18:22 rubenwardy yeah 18:22 rubenwardy and compiled out in GLSL 18:22 MTDiscord Considering I had accidentally left shadows on and suffered mystery performance loss, it does seem like the current implementation is rather error-prone to leave it entirely in the hands of users. 18:22 rubenwardy there's not much you can do to fix that without recompiling shaders at run time 18:22 MTDiscord I'm pretty sure the client could compile it out 18:22 rubenwardy it can't 18:22 MTDiscord maybe 11944 should be added to 5.5 roadmap then? 18:22 MTDiscord Recompiling at run time is fine though 18:23 rubenwardy that's not what the PR does 18:23 MTDiscord My shader media PR did that when it received dynamic media 18:23 MTDiscord It's very much possible 18:23 MTDiscord The PR should do that then 18:23 MTDiscord If all it's doing is hiding the effects of shadows without disabling the performance drain, then that's exactly zero help to me, as I've already gotten that much working just using the existing APIs. 18:24 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11699 is already in 5.5, seems reasonable to allow a competing choice as with the fonts issue 18:24 MTDiscord warr1024: everyone is not nodecore where they can disable time 18:24 MTDiscord Is 2022 est31 the right thing to put in the copyright notice? 18:25 MTDiscord dew those copyright notices, that's what the git history is for IMO 18:25 MTDiscord This is for new files. 18:25 MTDiscord I have at least one counterexample to your "everyone is not NodeCore" assertion :-D 18:25 MTDiscord I suppose you should just add your name there, and keep the date if it's a derivative 18:25 MTDiscord So 1942 est32, 2022 josiah_wi 18:25 MTDiscord Names aren't listed anyway. 18:26 MTDiscord This is engine code. 18:26 MTDiscord ok and? just because a janky hack works for you doesnt mean it works for everyone else 18:27 MTDiscord you didn't get the joke, did you? 18:27 MTDiscord You're right. We should use a different hanky hack instead, for certain. 18:27 MTDiscord logically speaking, your assertion was "for everyone it holds that they are not NodeCore", instead of "not everyone is NodeCore 18:27 MTDiscord Oh, some files have a name. 18:28 MTDiscord Games need APIs for a lot of graphical settings, not just shadows. I feel like that should be one player:set_graphics function rather than one specific to shadows. Pushing a poor API choice because everyone is going to complain like it's CSMs all over again is a bad idea IMO 18:29 MTDiscord If we can't bypass the performance cost of computing shadows rather than just doing all the work and zeroing out the visual end result, we're still putting a footgun in the hands of users, and if we're considering doing extra work to do the zeroing thing, we should at least consider disabling the footgun part too. 18:30 MTDiscord seems this is something that needs to be worked out, as it was in set sky, now in set_lighting(), 18:30 MTDiscord If a player enabled shadows, and it looks bad, so what? They can disable it. Yes I'd like control of the graphical settings, but that shouldn't be for just one thing because shadows is the only one anyone has felt the need to actually listen to this plea on for once. 18:31 MTDiscord If we can, say, cut the performance impact of shadows by like 80% by stubbing out shit in a special case where intensity == 0.0 that might be good enough for a duct tape solution at least... 18:32 MTDiscord this is a question of how long do you want to delay 5.5 further ? 18:32 MTDiscord Hell, I'd take a prototype graphics override function that only controls one or two things but can be improved after release 18:32 MTDiscord As it is I currently have to choose between making the game robust against incorrect settings but turning shadows into a silent fail, or making it easy to see what your settings are but having no way to know that shadows are meant to be turned off. 18:33 MTDiscord this is probably the fastest way to release 5.5 18:33 MTDiscord If something looks bad because players enabled something clearly marked as experimental, that is entirely their fault. 18:33 MTDiscord player:set_graphics() seems fine to me, even if shadows are the only thing it controls. set_sky and friends aren't necessarily all super rich APIs but they're at least extensible. 18:34 MTDiscord If you can get shadows hidden off the quick settings screen and mark it experimental that'd probably work alright too. 18:34 MTDiscord Hidden in "all settings" for now seems fine 18:35 MTDiscord I don't love it but I get it 18:35 MTDiscord except it will probably come back to bite like you cant tell 5.2 and 5.3 apart 18:36 rubenwardy hecks is adamantly against hiding it in all settings, he wants it compiled out 18:36 MTDiscord Why? 18:36 MTDiscord or controled ^ 18:36 MTDiscord wsor: If we get protocol bumps for 5.5 -> 5.6, I think we're fine 18:36 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11365 18:36 MTDiscord benrob: i suppose, but then that means kicking clients instead of something that could have been turned off 18:37 MTDiscord i would be nice to support all the way back to 5.4 from 5.6 as stuff like dynamic media with the new apis works with the older client 18:37 MTDiscord You'd kick someone for having "wrong" graphics settings? 18:38 MTDiscord people already do this for formsepcs 18:38 MTDiscord *formspecs 18:39 MTDiscord I get technical reasons, like not wanting to convert coordinate types or needing a new element or dynamic media, but for graphics settings? 18:39 MTDiscord Sounds like iron-gripping your users to me 18:39 MTDiscord when you get 20 complaints your game looks like garbage because im dumb and turned this on...... 18:40 MTDiscord or you want 5.5 to not have shadows and 5.6 to because of some improvement 18:40 MTDiscord easier to just support the newest version of mt that tell users to not enable something 18:40 MTDiscord that you have no control over 18:41 MTDiscord I already have no control over client graphical settings, frankly texture filtering is a much worse problem than shadows but I'm not saying that they need to be compiled out because they're useless for most games. 18:41 MTDiscord Even though they are 18:42 MTDiscord im just advocating for a full measure either way than a half measure 18:42 MTDiscord Heh ironically if I were not allowed to play a game with texture filtering on, that would probably push me toward different games. 18:43 MTDiscord Shadows perform bad and look out of place at worse. I'd like a set_graphics function, but I've wanted one for years and it's likely to be controversial at best. 18:43 MTDiscord I'm advocating for half measures over full measures because our obsession with full measures or bust is why we keep ending up with no measures. 18:44 MTDiscord heh, sorta fair point 18:44 MTDiscord If we're talking 5.6, then set_graphics. If we're talking 5.5, bury it and ship it already... 18:44 MTDiscord A half measure is fine, just not one that will bite us in the ass immediately 18:45 MTDiscord If it bites us in the ass 5 minutes from now that's one thing, but I'd like to have those 5 minutes of non ass biting 18:45 MTDiscord Buried settings is the politically easy half measure. Nuking it and reading in 5.6 is easier to handle technically, but since it's already been hyped, expect backlash. 18:45 MTDiscord could expose the compile out as a option when compiling with stuff like different db backends 18:46 MTDiscord re-adding* 18:46 MTDiscord this way its only available to people who compile there own clients and then enable it in settings 18:47 MTDiscord Oh, non-default compile option might not be a terrible middle ground ... though the cost of extra compile process complexity, I wonder about... 18:47 MTDiscord Adding flags/options anywhere always sucks at least a little from a maintenance perspective. 18:48 MTDiscord well yeah, but right after 5.5 releases you can just revert it in favor of the api 18:48 MTDiscord which is what the compile out option is 18:48 MTDiscord *hard code out 18:48 MTDiscord Anyways, I've given my 2 cents. I don't care that much either way, I've tweaked IKEA to handle them nowadays and don't use them except to test since they need some major optimisations as of right now :P 18:50 MTDiscord If there's something we can do to appease the portions of the community already hyped about this, without handing everyone an unlocked footgun, that'd be ideal. Either way I'd hate to delay 5.5 another X months again over one feature, so as far as I'm concerned whatever we can do to make something work... :-| 18:50 MTDiscord turn minetest into a rolling release platform with a updater lol 18:51 MTDiscord I do wonder if "middle ground" games that both need to disable shadows (don't use default skybox) but also can't use the existing duct tape (don't override sky completely) are really a thing...? 18:51 MTDiscord ^terrible sarcastic idea 18:53 erlehmann Warr1024 what do you mean middle ground games? 18:53 erlehmann Warr1024 mineclonia/mineclone2/mineclone5 all have solar panels and mob spawning based on light intensity. i.e. where it is dark, mobs spawn. 18:54 erlehmann and also the solar panels do not produce light 18:54 erlehmann so if someone where to enable shadows and they shade an area, they could erroneously conclude it is unsafe 18:54 MTDiscord I mean a game that wants to disable shadow mapping because it doesn't make sense for its skybox, but for which it can't override time of day to hack out shadows. 18:55 erlehmann well we can't hack out the skybox in mineclonia to get no shadows because we have day/night mechanics 18:55 MTDiscord The actual shadow intensity is low enough that it's unlikely to mislead players gameplay-wise unless they have an inhuman sense of absolute light intensity. 18:56 erlehmann uh, there are 15 light levels and basically there is a specific shade (7 or 8) that means mobs spawn 18:56 erlehmann humans are very good at contrasts 18:56 erlehmann i am not, but most people are 18:56 MTDiscord Mineclonia would be fine with shadows enabled. It's really only an issue for games that have skyboxes where there is no directional source. 18:56 erlehmann alter? inside the box? 18:56 MTDiscord Humans are good at contrasts and terrible at absolutes, hence why shadows aren't really a gameplay issue. 18:57 MTDiscord Alter and ITB bot use fully custom skyboxes so there's no reason they can't use the TOD hack. 18:57 erlehmann well, i am looking forward to getting bug reports about areas being too dark if shadows are a) compiled in and b) enabled by default 18:57 MTDiscord I'm looking for a hybrid case that breaks the 2 molds for which working cases have been identified. 18:57 erlehmann i don't care if they are not enabled by default because then i need to do exactly nothing for it to stay the same 18:58 MTDiscord They aren't, and should never be enabled by default 18:58 erlehmann let me check 18:58 MTDiscord Don't expect reports of areas too dark. Expect reports of low fps. That's one reason why I don't see them ever enabled by default. 18:58 erlehmann well i develop on a thinkpad t60 and cora recently got an even worse computer lol 18:58 MTDiscord They'll be enabled by default probably around the same time trilinear and MSAA are. 18:58 erlehmann so we are aware of performance issues ^^ 19:02 MTDiscord The biggest obstacle I can see to possibly using the TOD hack is if you support multiple skyboxes for different players at the same time, some of whom would have directional lighting and some who would not. If you can just set TOD to 5:00AM for all players all the time and control sky light intensity via day night ratio and use a custom skybox, then you fall into the scope of where the hack would probably work. 19:02 MTDiscord Nobody likes an ugly workaround but I'd definitely prioritize issues with no workaround over ones with an ugly workaround. 19:03 MTDiscord I'd rather not encourage ugly workarounds when it's trivial to just mark something as experimental 19:05 MTDiscord I mean yeah, other than the fact that you're implying that marking something as experimental is NOT an ugly workaround in itself, that seems fine. 19:06 erlehmann “support multiple skyboxes for different players at the same time, some of whom would have directional lighting and some who would not” – mineclonia does that, but we are in luck. the end dimension is underground. i HOPE that means it never has shadows. 19:06 erlehmann like there is 21 kilometers of end sky above it i think 19:07 erlehmann can someone tell me if shadows work the way i think they work, even if the terrain above has not been generated? 19:07 MTDiscord Haha, I ... honestly have no idea what shadows do with caves and such. I think it's based on whether there's visible terrain in a certain direction. 19:07 erlehmann uh oh 19:07 erlehmann well then the mcl* mods may be your case 19:08 MTDiscord I guess you'd have to just test it to see. 19:08 erlehmann just for illustrative purposes: the end sky is literally TV static and it is a dimension where you have no day or night 19:08 MTDiscord If it doesn't work with dimensions then yeah, that'd probably be an issue that we can't be the first ones to think of. 19:09 erlehmann oh also the nether sky is just red. no day or night too. 19:09 erlehmann it is a hell dimension 19:09 erlehmann but usually you do not see the sky because there is caves all around 19:09 erlehmann but i will test the end thing 19:09 MTDiscord Yes, we need that set_graphics function 19:10 MTDiscord We also need a allow_filtering in tiles def 19:10 erlehmann what's the thing with filtering? 19:10 MTDiscord That sounds like a good enough case then to advocate for burying shadows and discouraging users from digging them out until 5.6 at least... 19:10 MTDiscord Filtering makes pixel art..not pixel art 19:10 erlehmann oh yeah lol 19:10 erlehmann thinks i hate it 19:10 MTDiscord Unless you really crank up the minimum texture size 19:10 erlehmann thanks 19:10 MTDiscord Filtering is another footgun. It's possible but non-trivial to filter properly. 19:11 MTDiscord It's needed for higher-res textures though 19:11 MTDiscord "needed" 19:11 MTDiscord Users need to know some arcane settings, or modders need to bake in features into textures that may not be universally desirable, to ensure filtering doesn't make stuff look ass. 19:11 MTDiscord So you have to enable it for some games (like moontest) and disable it for most others 19:12 MTDiscord Being able to specify when a texture should or shouldn't be filtered would be nice 19:12 MTDiscord Because not all textures are alike 19:12 MTDiscord Or really if we could just have the option of a non-ass filtering shader ;-) 19:13 MTDiscord No no, I'd like to keep the ass-filtering shader thank you :P 19:13 MTDiscord Basically we need to be able to specify that the game should only render a thing in a way that yields crisp edges, though some AA could be tolerable if it's done properly. 19:13 erlehmann well 19:13 erlehmann not necessarily 19:13 erlehmann take chests 19:14 erlehmann chests need crisp edges for the outlines of a lock and so on 19:14 erlehmann but the body is usually more of a pixel mush 19:14 MTDiscord I may add a higher resolution texture for certain effects in a game for visual effect, but still keep a mostly pixel art style. I'd like to be able to specify what can and can't be filtered 19:14 MTDiscord This seems like the ideal thing to add to a tile def 19:14 erlehmann i agree 19:14 MTDiscord Maybe I should make an issue 19:14 erlehmann yes please do 19:15 MTDiscord Really the biggest problem probably comes from the fact that filters treat RGBA naively and if the RGB values were discarded for fully transparent pixels, you get weird halo effects. There's a hack in the engine to mitigate that but it's not foolproof. 19:15 erlehmann i saw enough mineclonia screenshots with horrible horrible filtering 19:15 erlehmann and we have both stuff that needs filters and stuff where no one cares 19:15 MTDiscord I wouldn't say "disallow filtering" but I would say that if filtering is allowed it has to meet certain standards for pixel preservation. 19:17 MTDiscord The best tuning I've found is (1) turn on filtering, (2) enable texture clean transparent, (3) set texture min size fairly high, and (4) have a video card that can handle all that. You can get some decent screenshots that way, but yeah, it's not necessarily accessible to everyone. 19:17 MTDiscord The problem is when you want higher quality than you can spend the silicon on, you end up needing to know what compromises in setting are okay and which are gonna suck. 19:19 MTDiscord Texture min size basically upscales all your textures at load time into an HD pack using NN, so you get a nearest-up-linear-down effect and it ensures integer scaling. That cuts way down on blur but obviously costs memory. 19:19 erlehmann CSS has an example for that 19:20 MTDiscord I've seen shaders that do that trick, but dynamically so it gets the same effect, requires no fine tuning, and no extra memory, but of course it's a compute/memory trade-off. 19:21 erlehmann https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/image-rendering 19:21 erlehmann image-rendering: auto; 19:21 erlehmann image-rendering: crisp-edges; 19:21 erlehmann image-rendering: pixelated; 19:22 erlehmann oh it lists also “smooth” and “high-quality” 19:22 MTDiscord #11968 19:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11968 -- Add `allow_filtering` Option to Tiles Definition 19:22 MTDiscord CSS is where I got the "crisp edges" name from, but specific implementations may need to be allowed to vary on how exactly that's achieved. We want AA to be allowed if possible but not mandatory, but not arbitrary blurring is definitely anathema. 19:23 erlehmann but that is the whole point of css 19:23 erlehmann it has this enum with stuff that was deemed to apply to a wide range of things 19:23 MTDiscord That's probably fair 19:23 erlehmann excepd for “pixelated” which is nearest neighbour, it says nothing about the algorithms that locks you in 19:24 erlehmann so … Benrob0329 would you edit your issue so that it is not a boolean? 19:24 MTDiscord Feel free to comment on alternatives 19:24 erlehmann the CSS thing was a boolean in the beginning too 19:24 erlehmann then they realized that is not enough 19:25 MTDiscord I'm not convinced that MT would actually use it, but I'm not against it either. 19:26 MTDiscord I suppose my suggestion is an MVP, if whoever implements this want to shoot for more then that's fine by me. 19:27 MTDiscord I'll add a note about CSS's property though 19:30 MTDiscord I'm in favor of MVPs so long as we just don't paint ourselves into a weird compat corner. Probably a bool could be okay in the same way we once got away with it for use_texture_alpha and seem to have survived that transition too. 19:31 MTDiscord Using string values is more future-proof, but also YAGNI 19:36 MTDiscord use_texture_alpha has issues with older clients 19:36 MTDiscord but its very slight 19:45 erlehmann uh 19:45 erlehmann the stringly typed solution is *entirely* future proof if you have a default value, which you need to have anyway 19:47 MTDiscord Strongly typed just makes you feel stupid though if you never end up with more than 2 different supported values. 19:48 MTDiscord Reminds me too much of people trying to invent their own book types using the strings "Yes" and "No". One case I ran into of that also did checks like == "No" and != "yes" in different places and I could never actually decipher it. 19:48 MTDiscord also [sic] 20:04 erlehmann stringly typed 20:04 erlehmann not strongly typed 20:04 erlehmann and yes i want smooth, crisp-edges and pixelated 20:04 erlehmann all 3 make sense for mineclonia 20:08 MTDiscord Smooth for GUIs? 20:09 erlehmann more for some kind of overlays 20:09 erlehmann or effects 20:09 erlehmann crisp edges with everything that has clearly defined edges but also large not-one-color-but-almost areas like chests and presents 20:09 erlehmann or shields, tools etc. 20:10 erlehmann uh 20:10 erlehmann anyone knows what the state of the item scaling is rn? 20:10 erlehmann i remember it to be gnarly 20:11 MTDiscord pixelated basically 20:11 erlehmann ah so the smoothie bug was fixed ig 20:12 MTDiscord the smoothie bug was not a bug, just a mislabeled setting ;) 20:12 erlehmann uh tell? 20:12 MTDiscord https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11753#issuecomment-1008353277 20:13 MTDiscord "strongly typed" = autocorrect 20:14 erlehmann the amount at which ppl tell me that “autocorrect” messed up their words it seems more like auto-incorrect 20:14 erlehmann like some cursed thing where you do not have to tab-complete to get the word or choose it, but it changes what you type in 20:14 MTDiscord It works great for non-jargon prose, which is almost half I say. 20:14 erlehmann is it like that? 20:14 MTDiscord erlehmann: it often is 20:14 erlehmann like you type stuff and the computer *replaces* it? 20:15 MTDiscord usually the phone but yes 20:15 MTDiscord Yeah 20:15 MTDiscord it "fixes" your spelling ;) 20:15 erlehmann how horrible 20:15 erlehmann no offense, but it sounds like something really bad to use 20:15 MTDiscord Also that "regression" you posted is a regression that counter-regresses another regression. 20:15 erlehmann i have only used autocomplete on maemo and there it was that you type the beginning of a word the rest becomes visible and you can press a key to get to it, like tab complete 20:16 erlehmann but the other stuff i saw was that you *chose* the word, not that it silently replaces what you typed 20:16 erlehmann so this is news to me 20:16 MTDiscord If on screen keyboards had tactile texture then it wouldn't be so much of an issue... 20:17 erlehmann must be a horrible thing if you have two words that are similar but use one slightly more often than the other haha 20:17 MTDiscord I disable auto-correction and just manually select the correct one if need be 20:18 MTDiscord Anyway there is a lot of argument in MT about what to do when you can't exactly integer scale a thing. You have to choose between blurry and jagged, and each side is convinced that the other way is obviously wrong. At least we have options now, which is probably the only way that would ever get solved. Having those options actually work in all cases would be icing on the cake... 20:19 MTDiscord Hmm I guess I can try "suggest but don't correct" and see how it goes but I miss the suggestion bar often and end up with words spelled like th5 20:20 Pexin erlehmann: when people txt me and then go "oops autocorrect", every time I internally react violently: why would anyone ever use or make such a thing. if for no other reason than wasted cpu.. 20:22 rubenwardy you say that, but using a phone without autocorrect is so painful 20:23 Pexin using a touchscreen for Anything is painful 20:23 erlehmann rubenwardy there is a difference between autocorrect (changes what you write) and autocomplete (any prefix/phoneme based input method) 20:24 erlehmann both work on touch devices and the latter rarely have the issues of the former (namely, the wrong words come out) 20:24 MTDiscord I'm trying without autocorrect now and now it's becoming painfully clear to me how hard it is to actually type correct words into an onscreen keyboard. Suggestions help but I have to go back and correct a lot. 20:24 MTDiscord Touchscreens could be great and make a lot of out keyboard vs mouse interface issues go away since you can have dedicated buttons for whatever and hit as many of them as you have fingers, but they often don't 20:24 MTDiscord *our 20:25 Pexin I miss my first mobile with hardware keypad 20:25 erlehmann Warr1024 do you have an autocomplete option? 20:25 MTDiscord They also suck for when you want to separate your UI from your display, since they inherently can't do that 20:28 MTDiscord Okay, autocorrect reenabled, since the error rate without it was higher than with 20:32 erlehmann luatic if it “did not do that in 5.4” this sounds like a regression? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11753#issuecomment-1008353277 20:33 sfan5 not every change of behaviour is a regression 20:39 MTDiscord That workorder is somebody enabling a setting, then filing a bug report that enabling the setting caused the setting to take effect ... 20:39 sfan5 merging #11958, game#2745 in 10m 20:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2745 -- Redo player_api by appgurueu 20:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11958 -- Optimize folder handling in 'files' mod storage backend by sfan5 22:35 erlehmann we are having load spikes, is there anything in the minetest *engine* that could make it lag about every ten minutes? 22:45 erlehmann Warr1024 could the 10 min spikes here have something to do with shadows/daylight or not at all? https://monitoring.minetest.land/d/YUpouLmWk/lua-server-monitoring-mod?var-instance=oysterity&orgId=1&refresh=10s 23:41 MTDiscord looks more like lua gc 23:58 MTDiscord What's good practice for ensuring thread safety? I have a class that wraps a resource that isn't thread safe, and I have a method to return a raw pointer to that resource. 23:59 MTDiscord I have some concerns about this design.