| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:37 |
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| 00:38 |
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| 00:43 |
erle_annoyed |
rubewardy it seems that https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11438 breaks mineclone2 and mineclonia. i don't have time to debug it right now, probably missing dependencies, but mineclone2 is in the testing instructions and you self-requested a review. we also have a case that requires special mention, _mcl_autogroup. |
| 00:44 |
erle_annoyed |
> The mod is split up into two parts, mcl_autogroup and _mcl_autogroup. mcl_autogroup contains the API functions used to register custom digging groups. _mcl_autogroup contains most of the code. The leading underscore in the name "_mcl_autogroup" is used to force Minetest to load that part of the mod as late as possible. Minetest loads mods |
| 00:44 |
erle_annoyed |
in reverse alphabetical order. This also means that it is very important that no mod adds _mcl_autogroup as a dependency. |
| 00:45 |
erle_annoyed |
this means we *do* depend on the “undefined mod loading order” for a very important case |
| 00:46 |
erle_annoyed |
rubenwardy sorry i did not highlight you correctly earlier. just wanted to let you know, maybe you know other mods with leading underscores. |
| 00:46 |
erle_annoyed |
and maybe you can figure out if this solution can be replaced with a better one. i do not know. |
| 00:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you should do your research better https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/commit/9d9e21301271da166248a2356b81e0225d738fde |
| 00:51 |
sfan5 |
if you depend on mod loading order that is explicitly documented as undefined (is this the case?) that is entirely your fault |
| 00:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^this |
| 00:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i believe it has been even stated not to depend on it |
| 00:52 |
sfan5 |
also lol erlehmann again talking out of his ass and not knowing about the upstream of his very own fork |
| 00:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> whats new |
| 00:53 |
sfan5 |
nothing it seems |
| 00:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also ironic pinging ruben instead of kro-ck the author |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also it seems that a init.lua of minetest.register_on_mods_loaded(dofile(oldinit.lua)) would solve the issue. given that this was written in 4x |
| 01:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> or minetest.after(0, dofile) provided you dont run into any of the minetest silently failing issues |
| 01:01 |
sfan5 |
can't find a note about mod loading order in lua_api.txt from a quick search |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yeah, i didnt either, i know some core dev stated not to depend on it somewhere, probably was the forum |
| 01:20 |
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| 01:32 |
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| 02:10 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> is it really necessary to write minetest.after into public chat? |
| 02:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> huh? |
| 02:12 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> just seen too many mods use that and it really makes it hard to override things or determine loading order, it is worst tool for this. on_mods_loaded is good. |
| 02:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> its great till you run into 5 mods using it, and mod 2 really needs to actually be after mod 5 |
| 02:13 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> (and it adds load time to max_lag initially) |
| 02:13 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> because it runs on globalstep |
| 02:13 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> see unified_inventory with a lot of items and check server lag immediately after startup :p |
| 02:14 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> with _plus |
| 02:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, this seems like #minetest-irc stuff |
| 02:43 |
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| 02:58 |
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| 03:02 |
erle_sleepy |
Jonathon i pinged rubenwardy because he does contentdb and i guessed that means he could be aware of mods doing stupid things with leading characters like underscores and can identify repeat offenders. |
| 03:05 |
erle_sleepy |
sfan5 what do you mean with talking out of my ass? neither mineclone2 git nor whatever contentdb gave me work with that PR. granted, that's probably mineclone2's fault (and can be fixed), but what exactly did i do wrong here pointing that out? |
| 03:28 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Kimapr> max_lag sucks anyway. not a good indicator of lag at all |
| 05:48 |
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| 05:49 |
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| 08:50 |
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| 10:22 |
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| 10:30 |
sfan5 |
~tell erlehmann well there's clearly a commit of the PR author himself in mcl2 which claims to fix issues discovered (Jonathon linked it), so it seems to me like the issue you say doesn't exist in at least mcl2 |
| 10:30 |
ShadowBot |
sfan5: OK. |
| 12:05 |
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| 15:47 |
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| 15:53 |
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| 16:03 |
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| 16:55 |
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| 17:16 |
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| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
merging #11241 in 10 |
| 17:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11241 -- Allow for Game-Specific Menu Music by ExeVirus |
| 17:18 |
sfan5 |
please do #11766 too |
| 17:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11766 -- Add backwards-compatible behaviour if too few CAO textures specified by sfan5 |
| 17:20 |
rubenwardy |
will do |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:27 |
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| 18:30 |
erlehmann_ |
sfan5 mineclone2 is full of commits that claim to fix an issue and often do not – but in this case, in the 4 months since the commit was made, it got another dependency bug just like the ones that were fixed, so it does not work right now with their git master or whatever cdb serves. next time you accuse me of not doing my research, it would be a |
| 18:30 |
erlehmann_ |
bit more helpful if you did your own. |
| 18:31 |
erlehmann_ |
on a more upbeat note, i have looked at the filenames in the cdb dump and _mcl_autogroups seems to be the only stupid leading underscore mode |
| 18:31 |
erlehmann_ |
mod |
| 18:31 |
erlehmann_ |
i searched for paths that matched /[^a-zA-Z0-9][^/]*/init.lua |
| 18:32 |
erlehmann_ |
i mean, there is also a mod named __builtin obviously. is it important that it loads last? |
| 18:33 |
erlehmann_ |
it is part of minebase |
| 18:34 |
sfan5 |
as far as I'm concerned the engine does not guarantee ordering by name so that's still their fault if they rely on it |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:47 |
erlehmann_ |
sfan5 look, i don't care whose fault it is. i just wanted to know if it is a widespread mistake. stuff like the CAO texture thing is so widespread that the engine should fix it, but mcl* bugs can be handled within mcl2 & mcla (mcl5 seems like a dead project to me, kay27 and all his servers just vanished). |
| 18:47 |
sfan5 |
sure |
| 18:50 |
erlehmann_ |
does cdb have a sanity check that a game/mod starts with new releases? |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> well at most there's manual moderation for new packages |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> /at most/at least/ |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
automatic testing wouldn't be that hard actually |
| 18:52 |
erlehmann_ |
i worry that the dependency change thing will reveal a lot of dep bugs in modpacks |
| 18:53 |
erlehmann_ |
Subplayer plank the problem is when the package works but the engine legitimately breaks it no new review is done, right? |
| 18:53 |
erlehmann_ |
“legitimately” as in relying on the undefined load order etc. |
| 18:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> well yeah |
| 18:56 |
erlehmann_ |
i think there is no other way, as minetest is not using semantic versioning – so there is no point in relying on that. |
| 18:56 |
erlehmann_ |
only testing works |
| 18:57 |
erlehmann_ |
(semantic versioning as in “stuff that works in 4.0 continues to work in 4.x”) |
| 18:59 |
erlehmann_ |
i'm off |
| 18:59 |
erlehmann_ |
bye! |
| 19:20 |
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| 19:48 |
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| 20:07 |
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| 20:17 |
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| 20:44 |
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| 20:54 |
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| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> But in a way MT does use semver...every 5.X version is compatible with another 5.X version |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
MT almost uses semver, the only deviation is with tagging between release versions |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
5.x versions are API-compatible |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:27 |
rubenwardy |
we define the API with lua_api.txt, and lua_api.txt doesn't guarantee any particular order of mod loading other than with dependencies |
| 21:28 |
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| 22:18 |
kilbith |
https://i.imgur.com/opG0umV.png |
| 22:18 |
kilbith |
this is a native *linux* binary running on Windows 11 |
| 22:22 |
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| 22:36 |
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| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Interesting, what GPU drivers then? |
| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Linux or windows? |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> its wslg |
