Time Nick Message 00:23 lhofhansl When would the meeting be? 01:20 rubenwardy usually 7pm UTC 01:20 rubenwardy ish 07:49 specing Why is the shout privilege called shout and not talk? 10:34 rubenwardy \o/ 10:35 MTDiscord revoking shout should disable uppercase letters 10:35 rubenwardy lol https://rwdy.uk/TXkDP.png 10:36 rubenwardy looks like "shout" is used by other games when they have local and global communication 10:36 rubenwardy like, a global communication is a shout 13:00 rubenwardy #10085 is ready for review again 13:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10085 -- Use JSON for favorites, move server list code to Lua by rubenwardy 13:00 rubenwardy I was bitten by Lua's dynamic typing 13:09 rubenwardy merging #10579 in 15 13:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10579 -- Add open user data button to main menu by rubenwardy 13:11 Krock huh? but "30000" should be read in as a nuber 13:12 rubenwardy it is tonumber()'d now 13:13 Krock alright. will test that soon (TM) 13:13 rubenwardy perhaps it should be tonumbered at a different point 13:14 rubenwardy hmm, it might need to be, because there's more comparison in tab_online 13:16 rubenwardy not sure how this ever worked 13:18 Krock that's a very convincing sentence regarding your PR 13:19 rubenwardy how the code before this ever worked 13:19 rubenwardy it's comparing a string port to the number port in the serverlist 13:19 Krock imcplicit Lua conversion 13:20 rubenwardy but it didn't coerce for my if-statement 13:20 Krock the ugliest part in Lua aside the missing "continue" and 1-based indices 13:20 Krock are you sure it's a raw number, and not \r or \n terminated? 13:21 rubenwardy it's directly from a field 13:21 rubenwardy well, if this didn't work, the only side affect would be that server names/descriptions wouldn't update in the favourites after joining again 13:22 rubenwardy actually no, it's storing name/desc after all 13:22 rubenwardy so this would cause servers to be displayed without descriptions if they're not currently online 13:22 rubenwardy because it's not being stored in favourite 13:22 rubenwardy this may be what's already happening 13:23 rubenwardy yeah, this is a bug that no one noticed 13:23 Krock either that or it's one of the 1000 issues 13:24 Krock "with select Minetest staff" -> "with selected Minetest staff" ? 13:24 rubenwardy yeah that reads better 13:25 Krock at least to my knowledge former is exclusively used as a verb, latter as adjective 13:27 MTDiscord Krock: no 13:27 rubenwardy they both work 13:27 MTDiscord "1" ~= 1 in Lua 13:28 Krock but 1 == "1" 13:28 Krock err no 13:28 MTDiscord no 13:28 rubenwardy both false 13:28 MTDiscord Only concatenation and addition (probably also subtraction etc.?) coerce 13:28 rubenwardy and also function use 13:28 MTDiscord function use? 13:29 rubenwardy like, passing a number to a function that expects a string 13:29 rubenwardy C function specifically 13:29 MTDiscord ah that 13:29 MTDiscord I meant inside Lua 13:29 MTDiscord but yup, other arithmetic ops coerce as well 17:58 Krock Meeting in an hour - let's see who's got time. 17:59 rubenwardy we didn't post in the org 18:30 Krock ah right. forgot that again 19:11 Krock Looks like only rubenwardy would be ready. THen let's move it to next week with a proper announcement? 19:12 rubenwardy yeah 19:13 sfan5 i'd be here too 19:13 sfan5 what would we be discussing anyway? 19:19 Krock I had concept discussions in mind, and those with one approval 19:19 Krock perhaps also checking with you whether the texture alpha stuff can be solved somewhen 19:19 Krock ( https://dev.minetest.net/Meetings ) 19:22 lhofhansl I'm around now. 19:22 sfan5 regarding that, I pretty much just need to find some time for it 19:23 Krock yes, I see. buys times. 19:23 Krock *busy 19:23 Krock oh cool. 4 devs is a good amount to start 19:24 Krock > 5.3.1 or 5.4.0 release date? 19:25 Krock No patch release, just 5.4.0 in January. that's what I heard earlier 19:25 lhofhansl Sounds good. There's a lot of new and improved stuff. 19:26 Krock still a few open issues, though. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/17 19:26 Krock but most of those are nice-to-have 19:27 lhofhansl Re: one approval. There's #10714, which I am a bit concerned about since it would triple the # of blocks that the client would forcefully keep in its cache. 19:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10714 -- Keep mapblocks in memory if they're in range by hecktest 19:28 Krock of how much memory are we talking there in average? 19:28 Krock I mean, mapblocks are a few kilobytes in raw state 19:28 lhofhansl Actually not sure how big a block (including mesh) is. 19:29 Krock it will only cause issues on devices with little RAM, such as mobile 19:29 Krock if even. 19:29 lhofhansl These blocks would stay in the cache for 10 minutes anyway. So what this does it keeps the sphere of blocks in memory (if they were looked at) beyond that. 19:30 lhofhansl So that after 10 minutes the blocks would not have to be reloaded. It's not a bad change. 19:30 Krock especially when travelling around a certain area 19:30 Krock should also lower server traffic a bit, though I doubt it would make much of a difference for them 19:30 lhofhansl it seems I'm the only one concerned so let's get that in. Technically it's totally fine. 19:31 Krock right, also the max cached mapblocks can be configured, hence no problem 19:31 Krock assuming that limit works reliably 19:32 lhofhansl well... The sphere will always be in the cache even when reduce the number of blocks you want to cache ... that's the concern. 19:32 lhofhansl before that it was only the view cone that was forced into the cache beyond its configured size 19:33 lhofhansl that's only a problem with large viewing_ranges, though. 19:35 Krock exactly, and using large viewing ranges means exponential growth of memory consumption 19:38 Krock lhofhansl: do you have any opinion on #10515? 19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10515 -- Fix base64 validation and add minetest.is_valid_base64() by appgurueu 19:38 lhofhansl so when setting the block send distance to 32 (needed for a viewing_range of 500) you'd force 137k to stay in the cache, even when many of them might be invisible from where the client is looking is right now. But that's the only concern I have. 19:39 lhofhansl Looking. 19:40 lhofhansl What's wrong with testing a valid string by checking for nil returned from decode? 19:40 lhofhansl But no problem with it in concept. 19:41 Krock pretty sure time will tell - or rather players - whether this new caching works for them, or whether the memory footprint is too high 19:42 Krock yes. that's my concern. IMO it does not need another function, if another one is already capable doing it for almost the same speed 19:45 lhofhansl There's also a bug fix in there, right? 19:46 Krock not quite. the current base64 decoding function does its own checks as well 19:47 Krock the base64 validation function is currently only used as a quick & dirty check 19:51 lhofhansl #10663 is ready it seems 19:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10663 -- Cleanup shader generation code by numberZero 19:52 Krock oh great. yes. will merge that in 5 minutes 19:52 Krock clang failed due to a random setup issue... 19:52 lhofhansl Yep 19:53 lhofhansl I do not know enough about #10643 and #10624 to say anything useful 19:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10643 -- Fix falling node rotation of wallmounted nodebox/mesh by Wuzzy2 19:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10624 -- Fix some more joystick issues by m42uko 19:54 Krock former needs fixing 19:54 m42uko If you have any questions aout 10624, I'm available. 19:54 m42uko Fix will be there n 15mins or so 19:55 lhofhansl #10363 seems fine. 19:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10363 -- [MainMenu] Add clear button and icon for search one. by Andrey2470T 19:55 Krock no questions from my side because I don't know much about controllers eithr 19:55 lhofhansl (same here :( ) 19:56 Krock merging (1) 19:57 lhofhansl 10624 looks like it won't break anything else. So assuming you tested it, I'm fine with it being merged. 19:58 Krock about the falling node PR. this has low error potential, and Wuzzy knows best how it should look like. I did a quick & dirty check and it seemed OK 19:58 sfan5 10624 still needs a fix then I can give it my approval too 19:58 Krock indeed. depends on sfan5's review 19:59 Krock about main menu. seems fine. trivial too. 20:00 Krock testing it quickly... 20:00 sfan5 10643 looks good too 20:01 Krock 10363 works 20:02 Krock sfan5: in this case I'll add the second approval there 20:03 Krock something that bothers me is #10555 20:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10555 -- Mapgen settings in a game's minetest.conf get ignored 20:03 Krock how important is that? how many people configure their params before creating a new world? 20:04 Krock also, shall the simple setDefaults PR be merged first, or rather the entire Settings re-structing PR? 20:04 sfan5 the menu itself does that 20:04 sfan5 but the issue title says it's about a minetest.conf from a game 20:05 Krock oh. I skipped that during reading. it's used rarely but should be fixed then 20:05 lhofhansl restructuring the entire settings needs more discussion. For example I think that all the various distance configuration should sit together near each other. 20:06 lhofhansl (that is: client, server, and mapgen setting for distance) 20:06 Krock are you talking about the defaultsettings.cpp line order/settingtypes line order? 20:06 lhofhansl settingtypes 20:07 Krock okay. yes, that can be done too, independently. issue here is within the core which does not apply the correct mapgen settings 20:07 lhofhansl (I closed the "make sense of the distance settings" issue, because it seems I was the only one who cared) 20:07 lhofhansl Oh yeah, different issues. 20:08 lhofhansl Oh... Ordering between game minetest.conf and global minetest.conf... Is that what you meant? 20:08 Krock regular players don't care about the raw settingtypes format as long they can find it in the search bar, and those who look up the raw file usually know what to look for 20:08 Krock exactly 20:09 Krock currently it's a combination of set, override & reset 20:09 Krock .. of g_settings 20:09 lhofhansl I think a game local minetest.conf is powerful and if it's not working we should definitely fix it. 20:10 lhofhansl what *is* the right order? (1) default, (2) global, (3) game? 20:10 Krock question is whether #10640 should be taken & improved, or whether #10661 should be tested well 20:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10640 -- Make overrideDefaults override defaults with other defaults also by pyrollo 20:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10661 -- [MANUAL SQUASH] Settings: Proper priority hierarchy by SmallJoker 20:10 Krock default -> game -> global -> map settings 20:11 lhofhansl shouldn't the game setting override the global settings? 20:11 Krock no, because then you couldn't customize the newly generated world params 20:12 Krock that's the current mindset. one might argue that games have priority 20:13 lhofhansl hmm... That's an interesting one. Perhaps it's a UI problem, if you could modify the game settings it would be OK, right? (although then not what the game intended) 20:13 lhofhansl If a game does not specify specific settings then the global settings would override, right? 20:14 Krock currently the global settings override the game settings, yes. if none of both is defined, it falls back to the dedfaultsettings.cpp values 20:16 lhofhansl Ok... I clearly haven't thought about this enough :) 20:17 Krock I hope my PR can clear those confusions and the bugs with it. Though it will require quite some testing because it's a fundamental change 20:19 Krock alright. a real meeting will be announced much earlier. Sorry for the somewhat spontaneous request 20:19 lhofhansl all good. 20:20 lhofhansl I need to head out soon'ish. Are we having some direct discussion as well? 20:20 Krock updating the wiki page just to have a bit of an overview of the progress for the next release 20:20 numzero Krock: am I right a global setting will override game setting? 20:20 Krock lhofhansl: no, it's just here 20:20 Krock numzero: that's how it works right now, yes. 20:21 numzero oh, okay. anyway I have two questions 20:21 lhofhansl sorry... I meant direction discussion :) 20:21 lhofhansl Like #10461 20:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10461 -- Roadmap Brainstorm 20:21 Krock I believe we already had that a few months ago, and most of the opinions are written down there 20:22 Krock no strong opinion from my side. just caring about bugfixes and features here and there 20:22 numzero is it possible from the UI 1) to unset a global setting (so that it won’t override anything), 2) to set a global setting to its default not unsetting it (to override game setting with that default)? 20:23 Krock 1) remove the setting (there's a reset button IIRC) 20:23 Krock 2) could be implemented easily 20:23 Krock ... but does not exist yet 20:24 lhofhansl A new thing I've been spending time is increasing the useful rendering distance. Both client (the atlasing or batching hecks wants to do - hopefully) and the server side improvements I have been working on. 20:24 numzero there is a “restore default” button; it’s unclear whether it does 1) or 2) 20:24 Krock it removes the setting, causing it to fall back to defaults, which is either defaultsettings or the game settings, depending on what's defined 20:24 lhofhansl Do we want to consider #10709 for 5.4.0? Or wait? 20:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10709 -- Allow map save to compress blocks asynchronously. by lhofhansl 20:25 Krock right off my top I don't know how to reword that to make things clear 20:25 Krock tbh I'd prefer to wait 20:25 lhofhansl NP 20:25 sfan5 I have no idea when 5.4.0 is going to be released anyway 20:25 sfan5 so hard to say anything now 20:25 Krock 5.4.0 has already waited for a while now, and this PR is best merged right after its release to do testing on real-world applications 20:26 Krock it all comes down to how quickly those mailestone issues are addressed, probably. 20:26 Krock though the alpha texture and settings issue are tricky ones 20:26 lhofhansl Yeah. Probably better. I really hope hecks finds time to work on the client stuff. Then together with this (and similar changes) MT can handle greater viewing_ranges. 20:27 rubenwardy it's probably best to leave 5.4 for the new year 20:27 Krock rubenwardy: January 20:28 lhofhansl so 10640 is a significant change... Not sure how I would create confidence in it, since you'd have to test so many permuations. 20:28 lhofhansl permutations 20:28 m42uko (sorry to interrupt) sfan5, just pushed an update to 10624. Can you please test again whether this fixes your deadzone problems. 20:29 lhofhansl please interrupt :) 20:30 Krock right. testing the flags is a pain 20:30 Krock perhaps I could add a unittest for these two cases which are sane checks 20:31 lhofhansl One way - assuming you're reasonably confident - is to put it into 5.4.0. And then fix any potential fallout in 5.4.1. 20:32 lhofhansl I need to run unfortunately. 20:32 Krock the irc logs will be there for you. cya. 20:33 Krock fact is that it needs fixing. I'm pretty sure it's the same, long chain of bugfixes & regressions which started as a bugfix 20:36 sfan5 m42uko: yes it's fixed now 20:36 m42uko Great :) 20:41 sfan5 the default deadzone is still too low to avoid triggering accidental walking on my controller but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:43 v-rob Just saw the meeting notification; I suppose I missed it? 20:44 sfan5 sorta, the announcement came late too 20:44 sfan5 most are still here though so if you have something to discuss after reading the log go ahead 20:44 m42uko sfan5, true^^ I'll see whether I can come up with some solution to automatically detecting all of this over Christmas. 20:45 sfan5 is it controller dependent? 20:45 sfan5 I don't see how one would estimate the correct values otherwise 20:45 m42uko yea it is 20:46 m42uko There are databases cataloging controllers and their parameters (including deadzones). SDL2 has this one for example: https://github.com/gabomdq/SDL_GameControllerDB/blob/master/gamecontrollerdb.txt 20:46 v-rob I wish we could use SDL's input system instead of Irrlicht's... 20:47 sfan5 oof 20:48 m42uko Are there any current efforts on replacing large parts of Irrlicht in MT? I thougth I read about that somewhere but not sure whether it was just gossip 20:49 rubenwardy not really 20:49 rubenwardy it's a monstrous task 20:49 rubenwardy I wonder if Irrlicht would allow us to use SDL alongside it 20:50 rubenwardy :D 20:50 rubenwardy Doubt 20:50 v-rob I think I've seen that 20:50 sfan5 controller support seems quite decoupled so that isn't entirely unrealistic 20:50 numzero v_rob: IrrLicht-on-SDL? 20:50 rubenwardy SDL would need access to the window to receive events 20:50 sfan5 we may have to switch to our own fork of irrlicht anyway, https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht is already prepared for that 20:50 sfan5 rubenwardy: yeah but from what I've seen controllers don't work that way 20:50 rubenwardy so either Irrlicht or SDL would need to use the window created by the other 20:50 rubenwardy oh really, maybe 20:51 sfan5 you open the controller and just read the stuff 20:51 rubenwardy I guess it uses joystick/event a lot 20:51 v-rob Irrlicht has a way to use a custom window 20:51 v-rob In createDevice or something like that 20:51 sfan5 you can't really share the window 20:54 sfan5 merging #10363, #10624 in 5m 20:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10363 -- [MainMenu] Add clear button and icon for search one. by Andrey2470T 20:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10624 -- Fix some more joystick issues by m42uko 20:54 numzero sfan5: after switching to own IrrLicht fork it will be possible to improve it gradually to make something usable, instead of replacing the whole thing at once 20:54 sfan5 yes 20:54 sfan5 we'll also be able to fix stuff like the mac shift click thing 20:54 sfan5 or some bone brokenness(?) 20:55 numzero or lack of non-indexed rendering? 20:56 numzero I dream of custom vertex formats 20:56 numzero oh, and more texture formats ofc 20:56 numzero integral and 3D textures have many uses 20:56 sfan5 those are more work, but doable ofc if we can modify Irrlichts source for our needs 20:57 sfan5 do you remember where it was missing indexed rendering btw? 20:57 numzero texture formats aren’t a problem 20:57 numzero vertex formats are ofc 20:57 numzero IrrLicht misses *non*-indexed rendering 20:58 numzero i.e. one has to specify indices even if these are sequential 20:58 sfan5 oh now I get it 20:58 sfan5 that wastes gpu bandwidth, I guess? 20:58 numzero gpu bus bandwidth 20:58 numzero and synchronization 20:59 numzero and works terribly with primitive types not supported natively, like quads or triangle-fan on some backends 21:00 numzero these could be drawn trivially as triangle list with engine-supplied indices, but not if the user specified his own indices as no GPU supports two-level indexing 21:03 numzero (the problem was reported to be extreme on OpenGL-on-METAL, and native OpenGL is planned to be removed from that OS) 21:04 v-rob Just curious, but what have people proposed as a replacement for Irrlicht? 21:05 rubenwardy \o/ 21:05 rubenwardy if we had the skills, then SDL+OpenGL/Vulkan 21:06 v-rob What precisely is Vulkan? 21:06 v-rob I've heard of it, but know little about it 21:06 rubenwardy no idea, it's trendy though 21:06 celeron55 vulkan is a thing where you write your own opengl 21:06 rubenwardy lol 21:07 rubenwardy OpenGL has a lot of clutter, and is deprecated on MacOS/iOS 21:07 v-rob Deprecated? Wow. What do they use instead? 21:07 v-rob Direct3d? :P 21:07 sfan5 a thing called "Metal" 21:07 numzero they use METAL 21:07 numzero their own invention 21:08 numzero similar to Vulkan but proprietary 21:08 v-rob So much for cross-platform compatibility 21:08 numzero oh yeah 21:08 numzero even MS keeps OpenGL AFAIK 21:09 v-rob Yeah 21:09 sfan5 windows only implements opengl 1.4 unless you install drivers 21:09 v-rob What's the support for Vulkan everywhere then? 21:11 sfan5 you mean on which platforms its supported? 21:11 v-rob Yes 21:12 sfan5 windows, linux, android 21:12 sfan5 some game consoles maybe(??) 21:12 rubenwardy macos with some thirdparty code 21:12 rubenwardy like, I think it translates to metal 21:13 v-rob In other words, to replace Irrlicht with one of these, it's OpenGL (shaky) or Vulkan or bust 21:13 v-rob And people wonder why we still use Irrlicht... 21:13 rubenwardy there's also BFX or something 21:13 rubenwardy https://github.com/bkaradzic/bgfx 21:14 sfan5 you wouldn't replace Irrlicht with OpenGL, one's an engine the other just the api 21:14 sfan5 API wise you can keep relying on OpenGL and tell people with platforms that don't support it that it's their fault 21:14 sfan5 Vulkan is a nice to have because it's modern and stuff 21:15 v-rob I know, but people have suggested plain Vulkan 21:15 sfan5 eh yea that's not a good idea 21:15 numzero Vulkan is not supposed to be used plain 21:15 rubenwardy I suggested SDL + (OpenGL or Vulkan) 21:15 rubenwardy SDL as a window opener and input library 21:15 numzero it’s more like a GPU access API which one needs to wrap into an engine suitting his needs 21:16 rubenwardy We struggle to find anyone to do graphics programming for Irrlicht, OpenGL is a whole other level of workload 21:16 sfan5 how is that different from sdl + opengl? 21:16 sfan5 do you want to implement a scene graph and everything else from scratch? 21:16 numzero rubenwardy: graphics programming for raw OpenGL is somewhat easier that that for IrrLicht 21:17 m42uko In terms of game engines, I think godot is still on the rise in the open source community. But I haven't looked at it in a while, and I have no idea on what a migration could look like. 21:17 numzero and way more productive 21:17 rubenwardy It's not really possible to port to Godot 21:17 rubenwardy unless we had Minetest as a massive C++ plugin 21:17 v-rob Honestly, it sounds much nicer to use our own fork of Irrlicht 21:18 sfan5 we could and it's not even that much work to hook it up 21:18 rubenwardy in any case, I think Irrlicht has propagated way too much into the codebase and cutting it back might be an idea at times 21:19 sfan5 just there hasn't been a stron enough reason yet 21:19 m42uko Ah okay, so godot is still a pain when used with C++ ^^ 21:19 rubenwardy yeah 21:19 rubenwardy forking Irrlicht is the easiest option 21:20 v-rob Hey, since when did we have a "Helpers" group on the forums? 21:20 v-rob It's pink 21:20 rubenwardy also, I think you should consider the life of Minetest and how long it would take to replace Irrlicht. We don't want to netscape it 21:20 rubenwardy v-rob: today, they have permission to move topics 21:20 v-rob Like moving mods from WIP to Releases? 21:21 MTDiscord "rubenwardy: graphics programming for raw OpenGL is somewhat easier that that for IrrLicht" I agree 21:21 numzero btw we have `irrlicht_changes` already... 21:21 v-rob Most of those changes are GUI/TTF 21:21 numzero I mean, there is something to apply to the fresh fork immediately) 21:21 sfan5 yeah you cant replace rendering or input like that 21:21 rubenwardy > We don't want to netscape it 21:21 rubenwardy I think it was netscape - they spent years without a release due to rewrites, and ended up becoming irrelevant 21:22 v-rob Well, my hope is that the entire Irrlicht GUI will be removed from Minetest at some point 21:22 numzero wasn’t netscape defeated by MS? 21:22 rubenwardy partly because of the rewrites 21:23 v-rob Yeah, but Netscape wasn't too much better than IE 21:23 rubenwardy IE was good 21:23 rubenwardy it became bad when MS stopped being competitive with it, and broke standards 21:24 v-rob It had some very good non-standard ideas, like insertAdjacentElement (which became standard) 21:24 rubenwardy or so an article I read says so. I was like 5 at the time 21:26 v-rob They let it rot at IE 6. Didn't receive updates until after Firefox had started beating it 21:30 v-rob BTW, anyone have any thoughts on my custom texture proof-of-concept? 21:33 MTDiscord Yeah 21:33 MTDiscord It's great 21:34 MTDiscord Although... We still need SSCSM :D 21:35 MTDiscord BTW are you still stuck on how to render lines? 21:36 v-rob Yes; driver->draw2DLine doesn't reliably have thickness 21:36 v-rob And there's no good filled polygon function as far as I can see 21:37 MTDiscord I was thinking maybe use shaders for this? 21:37 v-rob Then it would only work on OpenGL, right? 21:37 MTDiscord Yeah 21:37 MTDiscord But TBF the other drivers are fairly unusable 21:38 v-rob Actually, for a software renderer, Burningsvideo is fairly nice 21:39 MTDiscord Indeed 21:39 v-rob Plain "software" is a nightmare. (You can cheat with it by seeing underground) 21:39 MTDiscord It is buggy though 21:39 celeron55 burningsvideo is irrlicht's party trick 21:39 celeron55 it's amazing but still useless 8) 21:40 MTDiscord hehe 21:40 MTDiscord I agree 21:40 v-rob Regardless, if shaders don't work on OpenGl ES, it's a no-go 21:40 v-rob I don't know if they do or not 21:40 MTDiscord IIRC shaders work on ES (was there a PR for that?) 21:41 Krock yes they did work 21:42 Krock or no? I thought numzero wrote a PR to implement that a while ago 21:43 MTDiscord imma see real quick 21:43 numzero they were broken again recently 21:43 numzero https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9247#issuecomment-745609396 21:50 rubenwardy I used burningsvideo in CI to render formspec images 21:50 rubenwardy although, some way of doing OpenGL in software probably would have been better 21:51 rubenwardy the CI server didn't have a GPU or even an iGPU, apparently 21:51 rubenwardy probably just disabled 21:51 MTDiscord OpenGL is not made for software 21:51 rubenwardy or server chip 21:51 MTDiscord Using an abstraction like Irrlicht makes perfect sense 21:51 rubenwardy it doesn't need to be real time 21:52 rubenwardy I believe older RPis do software OpenGL (ES) 21:52 rubenwardy actually idk 21:53 rubenwardy burnings rendered something, but what it rendered was wrong 21:53 MTDiscord I'm just saying software allows different optimization techniques to be used 21:53 MTDiscord "burnings rendered something, but what it rendered was wrong" there seem to be scaling issues with software drivers 21:53 rubenwardy in CI I don't care so much about optimisation 21:54 rubenwardy that PR has been shelved, anyway 21:54 v-rob Got to head out. 21:54 rubenwardy o/ 21:55 MTDiscord o/ 22:02 numzero OpenGL *was* designed for software 22:02 numzero initially 22:03 numzero and the version IrrLicht uses is... well... not far from that initial version 22:04 numzero also, Mesa started as *software* OpenGL implementation 22:04 numzero it may still support software rendering 22:07 numzero heh, it seems to support OpenGL 4.6 in software 22:07 numzero https://mesamatrix.net/ 23:19 pgimeno > exactly, and using large viewing ranges means exponential growth of memory consumption 23:19 pgimeno ^ why exponential and not cubic?