Time Nick Message 11:27 juhdanad Is it possible to debug a mod in an IDE? (use breakpoints, read variables etc...) 14:14 KaadmY Should type casts be "joined" when their parent variable? 14:14 KaadmY Ie. `float x = (float)otherNumber` 14:14 KaadmY Or `float x = (float) otherNumber` 14:15 KaadmY The code I'm looking at uses the former 14:15 KaadmY And I don't think the style guidelines mention that 14:16 KaadmY Hullo 14:16 paramat our code uses joined 14:16 KaadmY Okay 14:26 paramat an idea for more intuitive crafting recipes for inner/outer stairs https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1820#issuecomment-313696928 14:31 KaadmY Having a builtin microblock system would be so awesome 14:31 KaadmY So you could make block "schematics" with a 2x2x2 grid 15:05 VanessaE paramat: you might consider "splitting" the faces on the foot of the stairs as is done with the top. 15:05 VanessaE so that the wood grain bevels together 15:13 paramat i'm not sure if that graphic is of MT, i'll check what the PR does 15:19 VanessaE oh ok 15:20 VanessaE still, it's easily done 15:21 VanessaE if you wanted to be fancy-schmancy, you'd add a second material to the model that looks like it' overlaid on the diagonal seam :) (that way wooden stairs could have an extra strip of wood over the seam, bricks could have a line of mortar, etc) 15:21 VanessaE it's* 15:22 VanessaE (well, tumeninodes would have to do that rather) 15:24 paramat GreenXenith made the .obj models for the PR, guess it would be texture-wrap stuff 15:24 VanessaE nah it's easier than that 15:25 VanessaE I'll put a comment in the PR 15:26 paramat ok 15:27 juhdanad Any thoughts on #5717? 15:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5717 -- Reserve `param1` for lighting 15:29 kilbith MT appears to be blurred on a HiDPI screen :( 15:30 juhdanad Pixellated, or evenly blurred? 15:30 kilbith both I think 15:31 juhdanad Maybe you enabled bilinear filtering on the options pane? 15:31 kilbith nope, fresh install 15:32 juhdanad Are the edges of the nodes sharp? 15:32 kilbith and the cursor ain't locked, camera keeps moving 15:32 kilbith no, I'm telling you I have *not* enabled any filtering 15:33 kilbith seriously, I'm not a random Joe 15:33 juhdanad I mean: only the textures are blurred, or the geometry is also blurred? 15:33 kilbith a screenshot will speak better 15:36 kilbith crap, even in full-maxed window, the resolution remains low 15:37 kilbith this means I have to click n pixels aside a button to click it 15:37 kilbith see what I mean? 15:38 juhdanad Yes: the contents of the window are the same size as before, and there is an empty border between the old and new window frame. 15:39 kilbith yes 15:40 kilbith https://lut.im/O2fmo23KeG/nuzZNSeGa2sIBJlh.png 15:40 juhdanad But then it is not blurred, but has wrong size, right? 15:40 kilbith this is more crappy than this screenshot 15:40 kilbith I set a window size of 1920x1024 15:41 kilbith on a 13 inches screen 15:41 KaadmY Probably non power of two? 15:41 KaadmY And do you have undersampling? 15:42 kilbith no 15:42 kilbith NPOT only applies to opengl 1.x 15:42 juhdanad kilbith: The image you posted is sharp. 15:42 kilbith no really it looks like crap from there 15:43 KaadmY Hm? 15:43 juhdanad Did you make the screenshot with f12? 15:43 kilbith yes 15:43 juhdanad Then it is really the negine's problem. 15:43 juhdanad *engine 15:44 kilbith the screenshot makes it render nice 15:44 kilbith https://lut.im/H5IyAbxCsJ/NVKXszkAZ3usyx5g.png 15:44 juhdanad The screenshot should be the same size as your window. 15:44 kilbith here on the screenshot you don't see the aliasing on the text 15:44 kilbith no, it assures you it looks different in game 15:45 kilbith err, s/it/I 15:45 juhdanad For some reason Minetest renders to a 1280x666 pixel large canvas, then stretches it to your screen. 15:46 kilbith do you have a HiDPI screen anyway? 15:46 juhdanad No, mine is smaller. 15:47 kilbith ubuntu is (partly) fucked on a such screen as well 15:49 juhdanad What if you resize your window to be smaller? 15:50 kilbith the issues remain 15:51 juhdanad And does the screenshot become smaller? 15:54 kilbith I've managed to take a screenshot with Win10 15:54 kilbith https://lut.im/4um98iUwns/tQ0DddzKVSsLb0q6.png 15:54 kilbith see the text is fucked 15:54 kilbith images are aliased 15:56 kilbith conclusion: MT doesn't fit to the modern anymore 15:56 kilbith *modern world 15:57 juhdanad Still, could you make a screenshot with F12 when your window is small? 15:57 kilbith no, F12 cheats with the actual rendering I'm seeing 15:57 kilbith while the screenshot tool from Win10 doesn't 15:58 kilbith and on a small window the issues persist 15:58 juhdanad I just would like to know if the size of the screenshot depends on the window size. 15:58 juhdanad And if yes, how. 15:59 kilbith alright 16:02 kilbith well apparently not 16:02 kilbith window size of 800x600: https://lut.im/dfO0apUoZA/bWEBdFgnuSh85SzJ.png 16:03 juhdanad But your first screenshot (1280x666) was smaller than your window size, right? 16:04 kilbith still fuscked up: https://lut.im/QZvMPRVdko/7Z9vdaoqIvnD11hV.png 16:04 kilbith juhdanad, yes 16:04 kilbith no idea why 16:04 juhdanad I'm looking at the code... 16:05 kilbith be back later, will attempt a Fedora install 16:07 VanessaE if text is blurry, wouldn't that suggest a problem with the desktop environment or font rendering outside of minetest? 16:07 juhdanad I don't think, as the screenshot size is not matched to the window size. 16:08 VanessaE fair enough (this is why I use printscreen, then I can be 100% sure that what I share is what I actually see) 16:10 juhdanad This mismatch indicares a bug in the rendering engine. 16:10 juhdanad *indicates 16:12 juhdanad Half-done inventory overlays: http://imgur.com/a/QOZBv 16:12 VanessaE nice 16:12 kilbith VanessaE: everything is fucked, not only the text 16:13 VanessaE kilbith: can you take a whole screenshot? minetest window at like 90% of the screen size or something, with desktop visible behind it? 16:13 VanessaE i.e. alt-printscreen or whatever the key is 16:13 kilbith even gtk2 windows are fucked 16:14 kilbith VanessaE: why would you want to see the desktop 16:14 juhdanad kilbith: maybe you could try an other renderer? 16:15 VanessaE I actually don't care about the desktop, but doing so gives us a base for comparison 16:15 kilbith well opengl is the only viable option 16:15 VanessaE because we can also see the window decorations and so on 16:16 VanessaE I mean if gtk rendering is similarly messed up, I'm having a hard time blaming minetest :) 16:16 kilbith gtk **2** doesn't support HiDPI 16:17 kilbith free softwares badly support newer hardware 16:17 VanessaE when I last checked, it was up to your OS and its graphics rendering to handle that 16:17 kilbith no, it also depends on the GUI framework 16:18 VanessaE minetest you can easily set the GUI scale to 2x or something, if your screen is so high-def, but I use 1600x1200 screens here with zero rendering problems, so unless you're going far higher, well... 16:18 kilbith only gtk3 and qt5 support hidpi 16:19 juhdanad In your minetest.conf, is screen_w and screen_h correct? 16:19 kilbith it's proportionally a 4K screen on a 15.6 screen 16:20 kilbith juhdanad: yes, set to 1920x1024 currently 16:21 kilbith fullscreen is also fucked 16:25 KaadmY Is completely dropping the CPU lighting pipeline an option at all? 16:25 KaadmY In favor of GPU lighting and shading? 16:26 KaadmY Most people are CPU bottlenecked now anyway 16:26 KaadmY And shaders shouldn't be a performance issue 16:26 KaadmY Even on mobile devices, shaders are probably faster than mass CPU calculations 16:27 juhdanad KaadmY: the problem is that in Minetest you can easily place 10000 light sources. 16:27 juhdanad Traditional lighting does not help there. 16:27 red-045 depends on what you mean by completely 16:27 red-045 even if we use traditinal lighting 16:28 KaadmY red-045: shaders always-on, all lighting on the GPU 16:28 KaadmY Minus torches and light sources maybe 16:28 red-045 we still need to calculate lighting vaules 16:28 VanessaE juhdanad, KaadmY there's also the problem of being able to read the lighting 16:28 KaadmY Since passing a crapton of lights to the GPU is slow 16:28 KaadmY red-045: yes, that still 16:28 VanessaE i.e. mods need to read param1 sometimes, or get_light() or whatever the call is 16:28 KaadmY But meshgen only happens when the mesh changes, ie. dig or place stuff 16:28 KaadmY You'd still need to propogate lighting CPU-side for mods 16:29 red-045 and if you add nice directional lighting and all which I assume is why you want this 16:29 KaadmY Yes 16:29 KaadmY t 16:29 red-045 then the ligthing the user sees will not be consistent with what mods see 16:29 KaadmY Just curious, because most people are CPU bottlenecked but we still do almost everything CPU-side even though we can almost do everything GPU-side already 16:30 KaadmY red-045: light falloff can be very custom 16:30 VanessaE the problem is servers don't have GPUs. 16:30 juhdanad But if you remove torches and light sources, only the sun can cast directional light. 16:30 KaadmY VanessaE: I think I've said like twice that you'd still need to calculate light propagation on the CPU 16:30 KaadmY :P 16:30 juhdanad (this is what MC shader packs implement, if I remember well) 16:30 VanessaE KaadmY: so this makes three times :P 16:30 KaadmY Yep :D 16:31 juhdanad kilbith: I have no idea why Minetest is blurred, sorry. 16:31 red-001 http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-01-23 16:32 kilbith well, I'm rather sorry for you to play with this shit 16:32 juhdanad For me it runs well. 16:32 paramat there has been a huge amount of talk about hardware lighting in this channel in the past, especially RBA and hmmmm, it's very non-trivial. RBA's idea was a mix of CPU / light level and GPU 16:33 kilbith if I wasn't a professional, MT would have been only a souvenir 16:34 KaadmY Well I've been trying to implement this since yesterday 16:34 KaadmY And every time I'm blocked by Minetest's codebase 16:34 KaadmY This is the 3rd method I've been trying to get around problems with state 16:35 KaadmY BTW couldn't you use the vertex color to pass the light level to the shaders? 16:35 KaadmY Since they're not used for actual coloring anymore 16:35 juhdanad Vertex colors do pass the light level to the shaders, in a compressed format. 16:36 KaadmY As alpha? 16:36 KaadmY The main problem I'm having right now is disabling CPU shading if shaders are enabled 16:37 KaadmY But there's no global state I can use to save shader state without g_settings, which is too inefficient and a bad idea anyway 16:38 red-045 which file are you working in? 16:38 KaadmY mesh.cpp, content_mapblock.cpp, mapblock_mesh.cpp, game.cpp, nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl 16:39 KaadmY And content_mapblock.h, mapblock_mesh.h 16:39 red-045 why does it need to be global? 16:39 KaadmY Because the lighting functions are global for some reason and no shader context is passed in 16:39 KaadmY In mesh.cpp:43 16:40 KaadmY Currently even if shaders are on, shading is CPU-side and baked into the vertex colors 16:40 juhdanad Kaadmy: if you enable shaders, light is calculated on the GPU. 16:41 KaadmY juhdanad: nope 16:41 KaadmY Try commenting out that function's contents 16:41 KaadmY And enable shaders 16:42 red-001 GameGlobalShaderConstantSetter? 16:43 juhdanad You misunderstood that function! That is for making certain faces of nodes slightly darker, it has nothing to do with shaders! 16:43 KaadmY juhdanad: but that should be GPU side, but it's always CPU side anyway 16:43 KaadmY All the GPU currently does in terms of lighting is day/night lighting 16:44 juhdanad Yes, this is the only thing that is dynamic in a map block. The other things are static. 16:46 juhdanad The vertex format is: alpha=day light/all light; r, g, b=(day light+night light)/2 16:53 KaadmY Is it too messy to have a global function pointer that I swap out for another function if shaders are enabled? 16:54 KaadmY That would probably be by far the fastest solution 16:54 KaadmY But also one of the messiest 16:56 juhdanad I suggest you to do it as you can, then when you make a PR, devs will request some changes anyways. 17:33 KaadmY Yay using a global function pointer swap works beautifully 17:33 KaadmY It doesn't work if you change it ingame though, dunno if that's good or bad 17:34 juhdanad I'm happy to read that. 17:34 KaadmY Yeah shaders don't update normally either if you change them while ingame 17:44 paramat #5748 is updated and fixed, can anyone review? 17:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5748 -- Underwater plantlike drawtype by numberZero 17:45 juhdanad paramat: I have rebased #4421, thanks for your support! However, I don't see why you added the two approvals label. 17:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad 17:54 paramat erm .. 17:55 paramat zeno and smalljoker +1 17:56 juhdanad Yes, really, I did not see Zeno's approval. 17:56 paramat nerzhul said it doesn't have to wait for the CSM stuff so it can be merged 17:56 juhdanad That is waiting for a long time to be merged... 17:57 paramat i'll merge it tonight 17:57 juhdanad It is hard to create a client-sided object reference system, and would make the PR more complicated. 17:57 paramat yeah 17:59 paramat sfan5 #5533 is updated, could you check it? it seems you might (or might not) have issues with it 17:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5533 -- Sneak: Strip down version by SmallJoker 18:08 paramat i'll merge #6103 #4421 within 2 hours 18:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6103 -- Mapgen Carpathian: Add lava_depth parameter by vlapsley 18:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad 18:13 KaadmY Who made the carpathian mapgen? 18:13 KaadmY I haven't heard of it until it got merged a few days ago 18:21 * red-001 was hoping deepbook was going to be book` 18:33 numzero does anyone work on RenderingEngine now? 18:34 numzero nerzhul? I remember you refactored that recently. 18:36 paramat the new mapgen is by vlapsley 18:37 KaadmY Never heard of them 18:47 Noxarivis[m] Why does the worldgen make dungeons? 18:52 paramat c55 coded them into early MT 18:53 juhdanad The real question is: why are dungeons empty? 18:54 nerzhul numzero, yes ofc 18:54 nerzhul juhdanad, dungeons should be improved to add more fun, add mines can be nice too 18:55 juhdanad Exploding mines in dungeons? Cool! 18:55 KaadmY Dungeons should be dangerous but rewarding 18:55 KaadmY Hm good idea juhdanad :P 18:55 juhdanad (I was joking) 18:55 KaadmY Having random trip mines in dungeons :P 18:56 juhdanad I think nerzhul meant long shafts with ores by 'mines' 18:56 KaadmY Basically long shafts? 18:57 juhdanad Yes. 19:02 paramat as far as i know early MT had mobs by default that would appear in dungeons, maybe dungeon loot too (not sure) 19:05 paramat but now mobs and loot are optional mods 19:09 KaadmY Oerkki and Dungeon Masters 19:10 juhdanad VanessaE, are you there? 19:13 paramat Krock please could you review/approve game#1820 ? code is good and is tested. ideally i'd like to merge it later tonight with game#1818 19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1820 -- Add corner stair nodes 4 by TumeniNodes 19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1818 -- Saplings: Reduce grow time to ABM equivalent by paramat 19:13 paramat once merged i plan to add a dedicated placement function for the inner/outer stairs 19:17 numzero nerzhul, so you continue cleaning RenderingEngine, right? I won’t touch it now then. 19:36 sfan5 paramat: loot should not be an optional mod tho 19:36 sfan5 minetest_game is too boring 19:36 red-001 & 19:36 red-001 ^ 19:37 KaadmY ^ 19:37 KaadmY ^ 19:37 KaadmY ^ 19:38 paramat dungeon loot would be good, just a case of someone writing a PR (i'm busy enough) 19:41 paramat i think there's a mod in the forum, maybe by blockmen 19:44 kilbith so MT w/ a HiDPI screen on linux looks barely fine with a lot of tweaks 19:45 kilbith the HUD images are not scaled though 19:52 nerzhul numzero, what do you want to do ? 19:52 nerzhul numzero, i will continue some PR to move things to the RenderingEngine singleton class yes, i don't think this evening 19:52 numzero some refactoring 19:52 numzero and postprocessing, but refactoring seems to be more important now 19:52 nerzhul juhdanad, i mean gold mines :D 19:52 nerzhul not exploding mines :p 19:53 numzero :D 19:53 numzero nerzhul, which PR? 19:55 nerzhul no pr atm 19:55 numzero nvm 19:56 nerzhul numzero, for postprocessing what do you want to have in RenderingEngine ? 19:56 nerzhul Device and Driver are mainly in RenderingEngine singleton atm 19:57 nerzhul only Game have the real pointer too for Device, for Driver some other class but this can be moved in future pr. I will focus on guiEnv and master scene in future pr 19:59 juhdanad nerzhul: there are still some files which do not use RenderingEngine, for example wieldmesh.cpp 20:00 juhdanad (I just didn't know if you were aware of that) 20:00 nerzhul juhdanad, yes wieldmesh has a specific thing 20:00 juhdanad A specific thing? 20:01 nerzhul i can't remember what but it was normal if i didn't do it atm because i depend on another thing if i remember 20:01 nerzhul (on week ago i'm lazy :p) 20:01 numzero er, want to have? I will need Driver, shader access (don’t remember which class gives that), and will need to keep some textures in the RenederingEngine (similar to current undersampling or stereo rendering, but want it to be cleaner) 20:02 nerzhul ShaderSrc 20:02 nerzhul which can be a singleton too attached to Rendering Engine 20:02 numzero but the main concern is that adding postprocessing changes code path significantly 20:02 numzero so conflicts with refactoring 20:02 nerzhul texturesrc can be a singleton too (cf celeron55) 20:03 nerzhul where is your part ? 20:06 numzero depends 20:07 numzero I want it to be supported for all modes (to move some code to postprocessing), but before refactoring that means writing everything here and there, in all these draw_* methods 20:07 nerzhul if you want to refactor RenderingEngine::draw_* you are free :) 20:08 numzero as I have other things to do, I’d prefer refactoring to be done first 20:08 numzero er... 20:08 numzero oh, okay 20:09 numzero will do that (not now, I’m lazy too =) 20:10 numzero one question: won’t you mind if 3d modes will require shaders? 20:28 KaadmY In a shader, how do you figure out a vertex's position relative to the camera? 20:29 juhdanad There is a global vector which tells the camera position. 20:29 KaadmY Which? 20:32 juhdanad I think m_eye_position_vertex 20:33 KaadmY In the shader? 20:33 juhdanad No, sorry, it is eyePosition. 20:34 Hijiri #6108 what does "real overlay support" mean? Does this mean that using overlay texture modifiers doesn't make a new texture for the combined texture? 20:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6108 -- Make crack an overlay 20:34 KaadmY Ah 20:34 Hijiri Or is there a special setting for node overlays now 20:34 juhdanad In minetest/client/shaders/nodes_shader/vertex.glsl you can find an example. 20:34 KaadmY opengl_vertex.glsl* 20:34 juhdanad Hijiri: what kind of setting? 20:34 Hijiri I don't know 20:35 Hijiri Is the issue referencing the stuff described in "Soft texture overlay" in the docs? 20:36 Hijiri I think it is, nevermind 20:37 KaadmY Gah, no matter what I'm doing the specular highlight is always in screen space 20:38 juhdanad Screen space? 20:39 Hijiri will mods be able to register nodes with different specular coefficients? 20:39 KaadmY Well specular has to work first 20:39 KaadmY For now I'll just hardcode specular to a sane value 20:39 KaadmY Just to add a bit of depth to geometry 21:02 VanessaE juhdanad: what's up? 21:04 juhdanad Is game#1784 still valid? 21:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1784 -- Crash problem in beds mod, bad `param2` values 21:06 VanessaE looking at mt_game commits, nothing jumps out at me as something that would have fixed it 21:06 VanessaE I assume it's still valid yeah 21:13 paramat yes game1784 is not fixed yet 21:24 paramat will merge #4421 #6103 in a moment 21:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad 21:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6103 -- Mapgen Carpathian: Add lava_depth parameter by vlapsley 21:28 kilbith http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2017-06-29#i_4993629 21:28 kilbith ^ this question has not been answered yet 21:34 paramat merging 21:39 sfan5 paramat: i'll try to look at stripped down sneak soon, however i'll be on holiday 21:40 sfan5 also a question 21:40 paramat merged 21:40 paramat ok 21:40 sfan5 do you think it would be beneficial to be able to restrict csm on a per-player basis? 21:41 nerzhul sfan5, i think it's overkill to have a such feature. Many server side features are globally limited 21:41 sfan5 well dunno 21:41 sfan5 a server admin might want to use oredetect 21:43 paramat doesn't seem important to have 21:44 sfan5 i don't see any downside 21:48 paramat maybe no downside, but i think the work and code needs justification, and i don't see much yet 21:50 paramat a server admin could use a serverside oredetect mod 21:50 sfan5 true 21:54 nerzhul flavour require more directions to be finished & merged 21:54 red-001 can always be implemented latter if there is a demand for it