Time  Nick          Message
02:30 octacian      How far away is the ability to inject client-side mods?
02:32 bigfoot547    Too far,
02:34 octacian      Like...
02:34 octacian      How far?
02:35 * octacian    is really looking forward to the prospect of replacing server-side particles with injected CSMs
02:35 bigfoot547    I'm not sure
04:31 bigfoot547    I've addressed reviews on #5797.
04:31 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5797 -- [CSM] Add function to set the FOV of the local player by bigfoot547
04:33 bigfoot547    How are there no ops on this channel?
04:33 bigfoot547    Not even chanserv
10:10 Nox[Matrix]   To the person who is responsible for the minetest_game, please remove the need of red dye for crafting a bed, it takes hours to find a red flower
10:12 sfan5         i'd tell you to open an issue on github but there probably already is one
10:14 sfan5         red flowers seem to be way too rare though, that's correct
10:14 sfan5         found one after flying around for 3 mins
10:15 sfan5         there's 5 of them in one spot actually
10:15 kilbith       order a flower biome to paramat
10:16 nerzhul       can paramat stop to do shit please ?
10:21 Nox[Matrix]   Wow, finally agreement, yes of course i did several issues sfan5
10:22 Nox[Matrix]   Who is paramat?
10:23 Nox[Matrix]   I try to play vanilla minetest, I have several problems
10:23 sfan5         the person responsible for mapgen dev in general and mapgen/biome stuff in minetest_game
10:23 Nox[Matrix]   I don't like mods that much, I rather like a consistent game that is maintained
10:24 Nox[Matrix]   Sadly I have to see that something like a mesecon lamp is added, instead of fixing gameplay issues
10:25 sfan5         you are expecting too much of an open source project
10:25 Nox[Matrix]   sfan5: am I?
10:26 DS-minetest   (it's a mese post light, not mesecon light, mesecons is a minetest modpack made by Jeija)
10:26 Nox[Matrix]   sfan5: is removing that dye from the bed crafting recipe that hard?
10:26 sfan5         reaching agreement about changes is way harder than the changes themselves
10:27 Nox[Matrix]   sfan5: I'd like to correct you...
10:27 Nox[Matrix]   reaching agreement from the developers about changes is way harder than the changes themselves
10:28 Nox[Matrix]   I get a lot of agreement from the user side
10:28 Nox[Matrix]   I could invite some right now
10:28 Nox[Matrix]   Some plan a "revolution"
10:29 jcalve        if you spent your complaining time walking around you'd have a red flower by now
10:29 Nox[Matrix]   jcalve: no
10:29 sfan5         yes
10:30 Nox[Matrix]   jcalve: because it took sometimes 5hours to find one,
10:30 jcalve        I doubt that
10:30 Nox[Matrix]   If I get a snow map it's almost impossible
10:31 Nox[Matrix]   jcalve: how often do you play minetest without mods?
10:31 DS-minetest   what about different colored beds using hardware coloring?
10:31 jcalve        who would ever play this without mods, it's mostly just the engine
10:31 Nox[Matrix]   DS-minetest: that would be nice and it would also solve the problem
10:31 DS-minetest   Nox[Matrix]: in a "snow map" you would also get no wool
10:32 Nox[Matrix]   jcalve: I play minetest without mods
10:32 Nox[Matrix]   DS-minetest: indeed, I can't find trees sometimes
10:32 DS-minetest   Nox[Matrix]: ok, so, if you use the mods command ingame, it shows nothing\
10:32 DS-minetest   ¿*
10:33 Nox[Matrix]   I only play minetest_game
10:33 paramat       celeron55 and all, big problem with LINT #6034
10:33 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6034 -- Unacceptable requests by LINT
10:34 Nox[Matrix]   Calinou agrees with my statement I guess
10:34 sfan5         LINT is not an acronym btw
10:35 sfan5         paramat: your diff is quite hard to read and the only problem i see is the removal of alignment
10:36 paramat       sfan5 if you follow the link it's clearer
10:37 paramat       all vertical alignment reoved, all double newlines removed, line expansions for clarity removed
10:37 paramat       so a large percentage of MT code not accepted, too much to whitelist
10:43 sfan5         paramat: can you maybe not make non-dev related comments that cause useless drama on issues
10:47 paramat       and nerz has not?
10:48 paramat       but yeah will restrain myself
10:48 sfan5         i don't see any not dev-related comments from him
10:48 paramat       "oh it's time consuming to add 1 line in a 1k line commit, i see... like it's time consuming to rename a variable , i think i will not lost my time anymore to answer you it's too time-consuming too."
10:49 sfan5         that comment has the potential to cause drama
10:49 sfan5         but it's dev-related
10:49 paramat       the last bit is not
10:50 sfan5         my point is that it is at least somehow related to the development issue being discussed
10:50 paramat       ok, deleted my comment
10:51 sfan5         thanks
10:53 paramat       ok, but just saying, the last sentence is not dev related
10:55 paramat       so, is there a way to quickly override LINT or disable it's checking of certain aspects?
10:55 paramat       i accept it is useful for some things
10:56 paramat       it's already made a silly request on one of my PRs that was clearly wrong
10:56 Raven262      paramat, would you consider adding the underground dirt blobs to v7?
10:57 paramat       oh btw, i intend to add a whote bed so that red roses are not needed
10:57 paramat       *white
10:57 Raven262      Nice
10:57 paramat       er maybe
10:57 Raven262      But maybe a bed of every colour would be better?
10:58 paramat       sfan5 see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8dd548c0b46e1db4669c1ffb44d591fb8dc7740a only pushed because LINT asked, even though it is not good formatting
10:59 paramat       i asked for that to be overriden (whitelist) but a certain someone pushed that even though they knew i strongly objected (provocation)
11:00 paramat       as you can see the LINT request there was really silly
11:00 paramat       however i am happy to re-arrange until both i and LINT are happy
11:01 Raven262      You are fighting over one newline?
11:01 paramat       objection https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6025#issuecomment-310284526
11:02 paramat       erm that's not the point or the issue
11:02 Raven262      Ah
11:02 paramat       and no, see the issue i linked earlier
11:05 paramat       hm another problem is that for the mapgen file, LINT is requesting lines to be spilt when they are clearer unsplit. we are allowed to go over 80 if it makes things clearer
11:19 red-001       could someone take a look at #6032? It's a trivial change but a lot of people seem to want it.
11:19 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6032 -- Load texturepacks from the `textures` subfolder of subgames. by red-001
11:20 nerzhul       just stop politics and code, paramat add those files to whitelist that's all
11:21 sfan5         that's not a good solution
11:21 nerzhul       and yeah i'm incisive but i consider you do harassment when you open an issue, add high prorioty, and comment the related commit and comment the PR with the same arguments
11:21 sfan5         ideally the linter would understand alignment instead of suggesting to remove it
11:22 nerzhul       it's not the first time your do that, also this morning i saw you have the solution to make this PR build pass
11:23 red-001       didn't someone suggest a linter that better matches the code style?
11:23 nerzhul       sfan5, i agree, just define the proper rule we want. ShadowNinja proposed another tools which can be nice to replace clang-format if needed, we just need to define the rules we want (we have the basis on dev.minetest.net but aligment is free and generally depend on human taste), and just conform to it
11:23 nerzhul       there is two benefits: rule is defined by a tool agreed by everybody. All PR owners just need to pass the tool and we can merge without loosing time to review code
11:24 nerzhul       s/code$/codestyle
11:25 nerzhul       merging #6031 in ~ 5 mins
11:25 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6031 -- Show param1 and param2 in debug screen by Wuzzy2
11:28 red-001       surely there is some way to define the way alinement should look like
11:30 nerzhul       yes but it's generic. For constructor you can tell to use one line + break if > max lenght or 1 argument per line, but it's global, a tool has no code taste
11:33 kilbith       why am I involved in your story even
11:33 kilbith       "it's been worse than kilbith's obsessive attacks"
11:33 kilbith       shut the fuck up alread
11:33 kilbith       y
11:38 paramat       yes cool, we need a LINTer that ignores alignments and double-newlines
11:39 Zeno`         double newlines are good IMO (especially between functions that are not associated)
11:42 DS-minetest   nerzhul: Wuzzy wrote in #6031: Partially fixes #5920.  => it shouldn't have been closed yet
11:42 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6031 -- Show param1 and param2 in debug screen by Wuzzy2
11:42 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5920 -- Show more infos in debug screen
11:43 Zeno`         I don't agree with the two spaces before a comment. One space is fine
11:43 Zeno`         I've never even seen that guideline which requests two spaces before a comment
11:45 paramat       "also this morning i saw you have the solution to make this PR build pass" yes i will still do that, i've had a busy morning and will do asap
11:46 paramat       yeah i don't mind the 2 space before a comment thing, i think its in linux kernel guidelines which we are asked to conform to
11:47 Zeno`         yeah, I disagree with it. I don't think it should be strictly enforced anyway (it's not a common style thing afaik)
11:48 sfan5         the linter should only strictly enforce a few things
11:48 sfan5         stuff like alignment can only be judged by humans so it's best if it doesn't enforce anything about that
11:49 paramat       yeah and line-splitting, only 90 is the hard limit
11:50 paramat       ok i'm happy to use 1 space before a comment
11:50 Zeno`         the linux kernel style guide says nothing about 2 spaces for comments
11:51 paramat       also, often we expand things for clarity, first example in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6034#issuecomment-310638490
11:52 Zeno`         yes, it's clearer how it was before what lint suggested and how I'd write it
11:54 Zeno`         although I'd probably pad the braces heh
11:54 paramat       i wonder where i saw the 2 space thing ..
11:54 Zeno`         dunno
11:54 Zeno`         it's not a guideline I've seen in any style guide
11:55 paramat       does a LINTer learn from the code it works on, to request consistency?
11:55 sfan5         no
11:56 sfan5         and LINT is still not an acronym
11:56 red-001       it's a linter not an AI
11:56 paramat       ok
12:00 Zeno`         " the alignment / newline checks need to be disabled." I actually agree with that
12:01 Zeno`         the only thing I'd agree with is adding a newline at EOF if it's missing
12:02 Zeno`         it's not up to a style thingy to ruin our nicely aligned (for readability) things
12:04 paramat       Raven262 dirt blobs underground, hmmm we can consider it sure, i thought it would be unrealistic deep underground (no plant matter), but mgv6 had it and it would help survival down there
12:05 Raven262      I was just thinking that taking one stack of dirt with me in order to survive underground was a bit too much
12:06 Raven262      It is true that one has to take saplings with him too, but dirt could really be generated :/
12:08 paramat       newline at EOF, do we have a guideline for that, it actually gets reported as a whitespace error so i have not been, but some do
12:09 paramat       saplings regenerate, so dirt is the only thing you need to take, seems a good argument for dirt
12:09 paramat       could you open an issue to remind me?
12:16 paramat       Nox, rainforest is almost always more distant than roses, so by the time you find cotton seeds you will have found a rose. however i agree to the suggestion
12:24 paramat       also i think flower densities can be increased
12:24 Raven262      https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1793
12:24 Raven262      paramat^
12:27 paramat       thanks
12:29 paramat       Nox, there's no such thing as a snow map, you're never more than roughly 1000 nodes from non-cold biomes
12:30 paramat       same with trees
12:31 paramat       5 mins walk
12:32 paramat       i call that 'voxel game tree anxiety' that comes from the need to build a house by nightfall in MC :]
12:34 paramat       https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/475#issuecomment-308810190 i confirmed i'll add a white bed a week ago, will do asap
13:01 Raven262      paramat, can trees grow under the light of a torch or they grow only at max light?
13:02 Raven262      Ah i found that they can't sorry for pinging
13:03 Raven262      Good that only mese lamp can max light, i was afraid that trees would grow under the torches which would be highly unrealistic.
13:29 paramat       no problem
13:29 paramat       i added 'silver sand' blobs underground to allow crafting of glass for growlamps
13:48 paramat       anyone for game#1764 ?
13:48 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1764 -- Adding backface culling to stairs by MrRar
13:57 paramat       #6026
13:57 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6026 -- Ores: Make 'absheight' flag non-functional by paramat
14:51 paramat       before i work on the textures, any support for registering a 'beds:bed_white' simple bed?
14:54 sfan5         sounds fine to me
14:57 Bobr2         any one know how /emergeblocks command works
14:57 * DS-minetest has already started with making colored beds beds
14:59 Raven262      DS-minetest, its good to be prepared when they release the white beds :P
14:59 Raven262      But
14:59 Raven262      You can make it a revolutionary mod
14:59 Raven262      By storing the color in node metadata
14:59 Raven262      :D
15:25 DS-minetest   hm, i think, mixed wool should give a bed with brownish color
15:25 DS-minetest   also unknown wool
15:27 kilbith       I'd get rid of the fancy bed if it was down to me
15:27 red-001       can someone update strings?
15:28 red-001       if it was up to me, we should remove the vessels mod and pretend it never even existed
15:28 * DS-minetest also doesn't like the fancy bed, it's so ugly and looks so uncomfortably
15:34 * cx384       doesn't think so
15:34 * Raven262    likes the fancy bed.
15:37 cx384         DS-minetest, They are fancy!
15:38 cx384         *these
15:39 DS-minetest   they are called "fancy"
15:39 Raven262      I think that might be cause they are fancy.
15:40 DS-minetest   nah, just to have 2 types of beds to give the api a sense
15:40 Raven262      That too.
15:40 Raven262      There is a bed api?
15:40 Raven262      Well, nice but i doubt that people are going to make multiple bed types
15:41 DS-minetest   it has more nodebox boxes => fps↓ => everything looks not fancy
15:42 twoelk        I don't think the fancy bed has much of an impact on fps
15:43 cx384         The same reason, why you should use a 4*4 texture pack? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9634
15:43 Raven262      I didn't see any nodebox having a big impact on fps, aside from nodebox trees
15:43 DS-minetest   well, but more than the normal one, think minimalistic and kiss
15:44 twoelk        the vessels mod on the other hand feels somewhat neglected
15:52 paramat       i would like to remove vessels mod from MTG, seems a more specialist thing
15:54 DS-minetest   yey, it works
15:54 cx384         ↑
15:56 DS-minetest   is there a way to color only specific parts of a bed?
15:57 DS-minetest   ehhm, i mean of an item
16:02 twoelk        the vessels mod is used as base for some other mods
16:08 Fixer         Bobr2: /emergeblocks (x1,y1,z1) (x2,y2,z2)
16:08 twoelk        actually maybe the vessels could be included in some basic and completely placeable kitchenware mod together with some bowl, pot and maybe a couldron. That could  add more variety to the food recipes and offer more deco
16:08 DS-minetest   game#1794
16:08 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1794 -- [WIP] make beds colored by DS-Minetest
16:10 twoelk        in fact I think all items should be placeable
16:15 DS-minetest   doesn't game#1764 still need to be documented?
16:15 ShadowBot     DS-minetest: Error: Delimiter not found in "Page is too big or the server took too much time to answer the request."
16:17 DS-minetest   game#1764
16:17 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1764 -- Adding backface culling to stairs by MrRar
16:25 paramat       what needs documenting? backface culling is automatically enabled if not true or false
16:26 paramat       "is there a way to color only specific parts of a bed?" DS-minetest soft overlays are for that
16:27 DS-minetest   for the case, someone wants to register a stair with no backface_culling but doesn't know it's automatically activated
16:27 DS-minetest   i meant item, not bed >_<
16:27 paramat       it only overrides 'nil', not false
16:28 paramat       yeah for items too
16:28 paramat       oh sorry
16:28 paramat       duh
16:29 DS-minetest   yeah, but the modder amybe expects that it's not set to true and wonders. fencegates and chests needed doc
16:29 paramat       overlays are for nodes
16:29 DS-minetest   uurgh, i forgot it for chests >_<
16:29 DS-minetest   hm, but chest aren't documented
16:30 DS-minetest   so, no soft overlays for items yet?
16:30 paramat       nope
16:30 paramat       afaik
16:31 paramat       thanks for game1794
16:32 DS-minetest   it would be nice if the items texture would be set-able via itemstack meta
16:34 paramat       if a modder wants no backface culling they will set it to false not nil, and they will look inside to check too
16:35 DS-minetest   yeah, they will set it to nil, but then it will be set to true
16:35 DS-minetest   actually it's not important to document it but it would be more consistent
16:37 paramat       no, nil is not false :]
16:59 paramat       #6026 is ready
16:59 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6026 -- Ores: Make 'absheight' flag non-functional by paramat
17:13 paramat       #5943 seems ready
17:13 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5943 -- Use opaque textures for basic materials by stujones11
18:21 VanessaE      this map-stops-loading bug is really becoming a massive pain in the ass.
18:35 Fixer         VanessaE: i don't see it on my client on VE-S...
18:35 VanessaE      you didn't leave your client idle long enough.
18:35 VanessaE      or maybe its ipv6 related, idk
18:59 Fixer         VanessaE: it was enough, and tried few times
18:59 VanessaE      Fixer: someone else, I forget who, was able to reproduce it on his end also.
18:59 VanessaE      in either case, it's preventing me from playing for more than a few minutes at a time
19:14 paramat       spotted some possible divide-by-zero crashes in mgv7, will now fix
19:49 paramat       hm no crashes but some variables become -inf or nan, probably best avoided i guess
19:49 * paramat     thinks about 'nan cat'
19:51 VanessaE      paramat: offtopic (relative to above)... I forgot, what's the decision regarding default wool mod and param2 coloring.  yes?  no?  later?
20:11 paramat       no decision but personally i prefer the wool textures remain more flexible by not being colourised, it would also break texture packs
20:12 paramat       game#1566 is a non-hardware colouring version
20:12 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1566 -- Better unification between the dye, wool, and bed mods. by treytomes
20:13 paramat       also see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1569#issuecomment-302962536 onwards
20:14 paramat       i think i prefer hardware colouring is used on newly-added coloured content, like coloured beds
20:15 paramat       you can see that breaking texture packs and making wool textures less editable will not be popular with some
20:22 paramat       seems to me because there aren't many wools there isn't much need or advantage to use hardware colouring for wool or dyes, yet it adds complexity and reduces texture flexibility. i feel there's no point doing it just for the sake of using the feature
20:38 VanessaE      paramat: I only ask because it comes up every now and again, most recently in my Dreambuilder thread. Someone was looking for Jordach's old 32-color wool mod, and I mentioned possibly writing a mod that'll extend default wool to 256 colors (e.g. via unified dyes)
20:39 VanessaE      don't want to do that if there are future plans, especially since a different palette from that which unified dyes uses would likely be chosen (and I'm sure that mod will never end up in minetest_game)
20:39 VanessaE      (it needs refactored anyway)
21:19 paramat       ok, i doubt mtg would extend wool to 256 colours even if it does use hardware colouring for wool
21:20 paramat       mtg dev is extremely slow recently and the future of it uncertain so i would suggest going ahead and making an extended wool mod
21:23 VanessaE      ok.
21:24 VanessaE      sofar, at one time, had expressed interest in merging UD into mtg
21:24 juhdanad      I thought MTG mostly develops by pulling in popular mods.
21:24 VanessaE      just wanted to avoid a potential future conflict.
21:24 VanessaE      juhdanad: fix colored itemstack drops. ;)
21:24 VanessaE      also hio
21:24 VanessaE      hi*
21:25 juhdanad      Great greeting.
21:25 paramat       hey red-001, stupid question but, i'm looking at the 'clang_format_whitelist.txt' and it has all MT files, so to disable lint for a file do i remove a file from here? but i was told to 'remove from the whitelist'?
21:25 juhdanad      I immediately get a task.
21:25 VanessaE      hehe
21:25 VanessaE      I'm just playing, juhdanad  :)
21:27 red-001       add it to the list
21:27 red-001       it has almost all of the files
21:27 red-001       not all
21:27 paramat       ok
21:28 nerzhul       it has only 75% of the files
21:28 nerzhul       it's a whitelist, you remove from whitlist, lint check the file.
21:29 juhdanad      paramat, you might bie interested in turning off formatting by line comments: https://philwrightdev.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/making-clang-format-ignore-sections/
21:29 juhdanad      *be
21:30 nerzhul       juhdanad, interesting i wasn't aware about that
21:31 nerzhul       it can permit to deploy linter on the whole code and remove whitelist support :p
21:31 juhdanad      I weren't too, I just Googled it.
21:31 juhdanad      (just now)
21:31 nerzhul       it permit to cover more code than ignoring a whole file
21:32 paramat       ok thanks
21:35 nerzhul       paramat, maybe format many things and just add markers on some parts can be nice
22:46 paramat       2 trivial mapgen PRs i might merge later #6025 #6035
22:46 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6025 -- Mgvalleys: Use existing 'lava_max_height' value in CavesRandomWalk by paramat
22:46 ShadowBot     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6035 -- Mgv7: Avoid divide-by-zero errors by paramat