Time  Nick        Message
00:00 paramat     ShadowNinja from dev channel
00:10 red-001     alright I will try and reimplement the PR using that
01:02 paramat     ShadowNinja can #5852 be merged? if so i will with #5951 and #5908 in a few mins
01:02 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5852 -- Improve the path select GUI by red-001
01:02 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5951 -- Fix #5947: wrong offset with MO_BIT_RANDOM_OFFSET_Y by numberZero
01:02 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5908 -- (Re)spawn players within 'mapgen_limit' by paramat
01:02 ShadowNinja paramat: Sure, as long as you've tested it.
01:03 paramat     i haven't tested 5852
01:04 bigfoot547  #5852?
01:04 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5852 -- Improve the path select GUI by red-001
01:05 ShadowNinja paramat: Just test it before merge then.  I'll be merging #5914 too.
01:05 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5914 -- Removed redundant pointer null checks by QrchackOfficial
01:17 paramat     merging ..
01:22 paramat     done
01:29 paramat     so much TODO
01:35 ShadowNinja Any comments on my patch to fix this bug: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4810#issuecomment-304474260
01:35 bigfoot547  !title
01:35 ShadowBot   Unittests crash on Release build · Issue #4810 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
01:52 paramat     on a quick look it seems reasonable
07:34 nerzhul     hi, merging #5957 in ~10 mins
07:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5957 -- Remove threads.h and replace its definitions with their C++11 equivalents by ShadowNinja
07:40 nerzhul     can someone review #5955 it's fairly trivial it only adds thread_local keyword to some static variables permitting to limit their lifetime to thread lifetime
07:40 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5955 -- C++11 patchset 7: Use thread_local with static for some settings by nerzhul
07:41 nerzhul     i will also merge #5852
07:41 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5852 -- Improve the path select GUI by red-001
08:47 nerzhul     merging #5901 in ~10 mins
08:47 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5901 -- Remove minetestmapper from this repository by nerzhul
10:43 kilbith     who had the brillant idea to set `liquid_update` to 1.0
10:43 kilbith     it's too slow
10:51 kilbith     proller
11:00 nerzhul     yeah kilbith i approve it's not very realistic
11:25 nerzhul     hi Zeno`
11:30 Zeno`       hi
11:33 nerzhul     can someone review #5955, it's fairly trivial, adding thread local lifetime on some static variables :)
11:33 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5955 -- C++11 patchset 7: Use thread_local with static for some settings by nerzhul
11:40 nerzhul     merging #5960 in ~20 mins
11:40 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5960 -- Sound: Add pitch option by Rui-Minetest
11:41 Zeno`       +1
11:41 Zeno`       (for 5955)
11:41 nerzhul     ty, then merging both in remaining time :p
12:18 Fixer       got interesting error trying to connect to hometown server on newest client
12:18 Fixer       and also to jungle 0.4.16 stable server
12:18 Fixer       error is
12:18 Fixer       2017-06-11 15:15:47: ERROR[Main]: A serialization error occurred:
12:18 Fixer       2017-06-11 15:15:47: ERROR[Main]: deSerializeString: couldn't read all chars
12:18 Fixer       2017-06-11 15:15:47: ERROR[Main]: The server is probably  running a different version of Minetest.
12:19 Fixer       client 65819f3b
12:20 Fixer       yeah, can't connect to anything
12:23 nerzhul     can you bisect ?
12:23 Fixer       yeah
12:24 Fixer       a9f02ab5 was fine btw
12:26 nerzhul     i have same problem, right
12:26 nerzhul     works in singleplayer not with remove servers
12:33 Fixer       bisecting
12:36 Fixer       #warning Please include winsock2.h before windows.h
12:39 Fixer       6c5e5e20 is good
12:40 nerzhul     then only 4 commits can cause the problem
12:42 Fixer       continuing
12:44 nerzhul     the only commit who can be related is #ff73c7a5da6ab8ac0bb678ebf25b83e805397029
12:45 Fixer       lets see
12:45 nerzhul     i think https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ff73c7a5da6ab8ac0bb678ebf25b83e805397029#diff-70868aa6d6b96c0c1623c761500d23c4R261 is the cause here
12:45 Fixer       unfortunately i do full recompile since there was cmakelist change
12:47 nerzhul     it's only for windows then, on linux it's only related files change
12:49 Fixer       03ff53e1 is good
12:52 nerzhul     i'm testing a fix
12:54 nerzhul     okay i see the problem
12:54 nerzhul     protocol version is not checked
12:54 nerzhul     and not bumped
12:55 Fixer       nerzhul: " Sound: Add pitch option (#5960)" is bad one
12:55 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5960 -- Sound: Add pitch option by Rui-Minetest
12:55 nerzhul     yes i know
12:55 nerzhul     i know why, i just don't have the fix yet
13:56 sfan5       nerzhul: the problem is that {de,}serializeSimpleSoundSpec are not versioned at all
13:56 sfan5       and since they aren't inside a container with length the try{} method can't be applied here
13:56 sfan5       sounds like ContentFeatures need a version bump
14:35 nerzhul     sfan5, yes
14:45 kilbith     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5964
14:45 kilbith     ^ nerz
14:46 red-001     #5964
14:46 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5964 -- Fix the serialization error by ff73c7a by Rui-Minetest
15:52 red-001     #5965
15:52 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5965 -- Load client-side mods into memory before executing them. by red-001
15:55 nerzhul     red-001, mods should use require instead of load file
15:55 nerzhul     it's how lua should work, but not in MT
15:56 red-001     can't that be implemented latter?
15:56 nerzhul     i don't see the benefit or your pr atm
15:56 tenplus1    hi folks
15:57 tenplus1    Q. was entity collision altered or changed in the 0.4.16 release ???
15:58 red-001     it's meant to make it easier to implement server-mod sending
15:58 nerzhul     atm i don't see how, please note i don't wants mods to be in media cache
15:58 red-001     why not?
16:01 nerzhul     a mod is not a media and mods should be packed before sending and comprssed
16:08 VanessaE    mods will need to be cached.,
16:09 VanessaE    if not in the media cache, then somewhere else.
16:09 tenplus1    hi Vanessa
16:10 VanessaE    someone will invariably end up making a server or subgame that pushes tons of CSM content, and if you don't cache it, the client will have to spend who knows how many extra minutes at every connect to re-download said mods.
16:11 VanessaE    seems simple enough to hash the mod same as with an image.
16:14 nerzhul     if someone is doing a CSM mod like dreambuild i hope the player has 8 cores and 32 gb ram to run it (joke)
16:14 VanessaE    :P
16:14 rubenwardy  mods should just be media
16:15 rubenwardy  so can be cached the same way
16:15 VanessaE    so change the name of the media cache to "resources" or something
16:16 kilbith     we won't be able to make proprietary mods that way
16:16 VanessaE    good :P
16:16 kilbith     no, not good
16:16 VanessaE    yes, very good.
16:17 VanessaE    fuck proprietary mods.  this is an open-source project.
16:17 kilbith     I have bills to pay, you know
16:17 rubenwardy  Lua isn't designed to be secure
16:17 rubenwardy  source code wise
16:17 red-001     yes you will be
16:17 nerzhul     i have bills too to pay but i seems minetest doesn't give me money and is an open source software. You have money patch the code. That's all
16:17 VanessaE    kilbith: besides, the engine already forbids closed-source mods anyway
16:17 kilbith     true, and bytecode is 1. not portable and 2. easily decompilable
16:18 red-001     Just add your license to the start of the file
16:18 kilbith     that's why we enforce using our mods on servers
16:18 red-001     do note I'm not a lawyer
16:18 kilbith     VanessaE, you can disable Mod Security and you can run bytecode directly
16:18 rubenwardy  you can still have proprietary mods, you just can't DRM/keep control of source code, ie: piracy would be easy
16:18 rubenwardy  but most piracy is easy these days
16:18 VanessaE    kilbith: not if you use LuaJIT, which most people do.
16:18 red-001     but afaik just having source code doesn't allow you to use it legally speaking
16:19 VanessaE    last I checked, LuaJIT won't load bytecode mods.
16:19 kilbith     VanessaE, this works even if you use LuaJIT (it disables itself)
16:19 red-001     LuaJIT has it's own type of bytecode
16:19 kilbith     since it produces its own bytecode
16:20 VanessaE    well either way, proprietary mods can go sink in a tar pit.
16:20 tenplus1    o.O
16:20 kilbith     you want to make me jobless then
16:20 VanessaE    kilbith: or you can find a way around the problem
16:21 VanessaE    there are lots of companies that make plenty of money in open source.
16:21 red-001     I don't even know what your usecase is
16:21 VanessaE    if Redhat can do it, so can you :P
16:21 kilbith     VanessaE, RedHat sells services, not softwares
16:21 kilbith     besides, do you know a startup living from open-source stuff?
16:21 * VanessaE  shrugs
16:21 * tenplus1  opens a 24-hour minetest hotline costing 2.99 per minute for advice
16:22 VanessaE    not to sound callous, but it isn't minetest's job to make you money :)
16:22 tenplus1    and I hope that any mods made dont end up like mc and start charging
16:23 kilbith     VanessaE, you will cease to cooperate then
16:23 rubenwardy  this is heading into #-hub
16:23 kilbith     shit
16:23 kilbith     *we will
16:23 * VanessaE  shrugs
16:24 VanessaE    that's between you, your boss, and LGPL.
16:24 kilbith     i.e. changing our license to GPL and you will never see our toys in mainstream
16:24 kilbith     err, *upstream
16:24 VanessaE    you can't do that without approval from all authors whose code you're using
16:24 rubenwardy  false
16:24 rubenwardy  LGPL is relicensable to GPL
16:25 VanessaE    hm, ok
16:25 kilbith     you talked about RedHat, it is the most proeminent contributor to the linux kernel because why? money
16:25 rubenwardy  anyway, it's only client mods that would be transferred - server mods' code would stay on the server
16:26 VanessaE    then maybe Minetest needs to drop this LGPL crap and go back to GPL
16:26 rubenwardy  🤷
16:26 VanessaE    [01F 937]
16:27 VanessaE    no offense, kilbith but what you just said about changing the license sounds incredibly hostile
16:27 rubenwardy  I personally like the idea of commercial/proprietary companies building products using Minetest, and backporting changes
16:27 VanessaE    why should MT devs even begin to make things easier for you?
16:27 nerzhul     you can change is if you want, we will continue to do our path and you will spent money if you want our additions to merge them, but it's not our problem, like any other fork
16:28 VanessaE    rubenwardy: yeah, the key word there is "backporting".
16:28 kilbith     VanessaE, because you desperately need us ;)
16:28 nerzhul     rubenwardy, i like it too, but there is no company which does that
16:28 nerzhul     i don't see why we need you you don't really contribute you are making your own way, your sahders etc, source is not available publicly to see the quality of the work or if we can backport it
16:29 VanessaE    kilbith: he's not wrong...  you've shown lots of screenshots and zero code.
16:29 nerzhul     also MT cannot integrate specialized things because it's a little bit generic, not a whole game (and i would prefer if MT was more a game than an engine)
16:30 red-001     we rarely get any backported features from you anyway
16:30 rubenwardy  he has made more than a few contributions this year
16:30 kilbith     nothing forces us to release our code in open-source currently, we're not cuurently exploiting commercially yet
16:30 VanessaE    rubenwardy: none from his commercial project
16:30 VanessaE    kilbith: aaaa...ctually yes it does
16:30 VanessaE    that's kinda the point of [L]GPL
16:30 nerzhul     kilbith, you are totally wrong, the license doesn't care about your commercial things or not.
16:30 kilbith     no, we are not on the market yet
16:30 red-001     so what do you want DRM for CSM mods?
16:30 rubenwardy  false, VanessaE
16:31 rubenwardy  he only needs to give source to end users
16:31 kilbith     so it enters in the personal usage
16:31 nerzhul     red-001, no DRM from us, we don't care, just do our own way, they want DRM, they patch
16:31 rubenwardy  and that doesn't apply to subgames/mods, as long as they don't use any LGPL code
16:31 nerzhul     personal usage is for one human entity, as i see you are a non human entity
16:31 VanessaE    rubenwardy: you sure about that? last I checked, he has to provide the source or a link thereto to anyone who wants it
16:32 red-001     VanessaE, no
16:32 red-001     only people with access to the binary
16:32 rubenwardy  https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.en.html
16:32 red-001     the license that worldedit uses requires that
16:33 red-001     or if your mod code being secrect is a requirement just don't use CSM
16:33 kilbith     this is sad you're suspecting me of being a ned or something
16:33 kilbith     meanwhile there are real illegal forks on the Play Store from people which have never contributed to MT
16:34 red-001     we are not going to avoid added a feature because you can't use it
16:34 VanessaE    kilbith: you are the one who just threatened to change your license and explicitly try to prevent backporting of new features.
16:34 nerzhul     kilbith, except adding ads which si not really backportable seems our code is nothing... unfortunately
16:34 rubenwardy  I think this is all an over reaction
16:35 kilbith     VanessaE, also we already backported *some* of our changes: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls/adelcoding1
16:35 kilbith     this dude is my team mate
16:36 VanessaE    that's not the point, kilbith
16:36 rubenwardy  kilbith, keep doing what you're doing, I look forward to seeing an end product
16:36 kilbith     we hire people in the community also
16:37 nerzhul     it's common to see that in free software, except they keep in community genraly
16:49 rubenwardy  I think the thing is that we're all volunteers here
16:50 rubenwardy  it's much more worth our time to make this is better game / engine for us, rather than companies - so if you want DRM etc, you'll need to implement it yourself :P
16:50 rubenwardy  don't worry though
16:51 rubenwardy  we won't be doing anything stupid like sending server mods' code to the client - there's no need
16:51 kilbith     well, that's a relief
16:52 VanessaE    client mods will eventually be sent from the server of course.
16:53 tenplus1    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5966
16:56 VanessaE    oh, and for the record kilbith, if curtailing copyright infringement is your goal, then fuck DRM and fuck "security by obscurity".  They don't work.  Never have, never will.
16:58 kilbith     I love you when you get upset
16:58 VanessaE    you commercial guys have been trying that crap since the first 8 bitters hit consumers' desks in the late 1970's.
16:58 VanessaE    upset? heh.  more like amused.
17:00 kilbith     maybe some banknotes in the good pockets can help some people there to accept what we want to put down your throat
17:01 VanessaE    when sony tried it with some of their music CDs many years ago, that was the death knell for DRM.
17:01 * tenplus1  wonders what he has walked into o.O
17:02 VanessaE    tenplus1: kilbith trolling, as usual.
17:02 VanessaE    :P
17:02 red-001     that does sound an awful lot like bribery
17:02 kilbith     VanessaE's right :P
17:03 VanessaE    red-001: more like "it'll be so good you'll pay for the privilege"
17:03 VanessaE    (which is, of course, 100% pure bullshit)
17:09 bigfoot547  lol
17:12 DS-minetest is #3835 still a problem?
17:12 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3835 -- Lua API: Allow to store arbitrary values in objects / player objects (meta)
17:18 rubenwardy  players no
17:18 rubenwardy  objects yet
17:18 rubenwardy  *yes
17:18 rubenwardy  due to the addition of player attributes
17:19 rubenwardy  it's worth deprecating player attributes however, and using the unified meta API for player data
17:19 rubenwardy  it can be done much better than item meta, as it's already key/value
17:21 tenplus1    was entity collision altered in any way when player collision was worked on ???
17:21 rubenwardy  would be nice to make Settings use the unified meta API as well
17:21 rubenwardy  then we can have one consistent interface for key-value meta, +/- added functions
17:22 nerzhul     rubenwardy, yes meta happened after then i think it can be nice to do it (with a conversion model maybe ?)
17:22 nerzhul     (don't forget it's player_attr_k, player_attr_v in DB
17:56 red-001     it would be good if someone could review #5965
17:56 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5965 -- Load client-side mods into memory before executing them. by red-001
19:15 nerzhul     merging #5964 in ~2 mins (emergency commit)
19:15 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5964 -- Fix the serialization error by ff73c7a by Rui-Minetest
20:00 Fixer       lol, new sound bug
20:00 red-001     \o/
20:05 Fixer       compile newest client, connect to any 0.4.16 stable server, place dirt or smth other, no placing sound, but other sounds seems to work (at least digging, chest opening, walk)
20:06 Fixer       placing torch is also silent
20:06 Fixer       ohi ekem
20:06 Fixer       ohi est31 *
20:07 Fixer       will post an issue
20:18 Fixer       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5967
20:18 red-001     #5958 should be high priority
20:18 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5958 -- Proper CSM security module
20:19 red-001     so what is #5967
20:19 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5967 -- Some sounds are not played
21:36 Fixer       Herp
21:36 Bobr-m      Hi
21:36 bigfoot547  :D
21:39 Bobr-m      :D
21:44 nerzhul     sfan5, i think you are exact the default value was not good
21:45 Bobr-m      I agree
22:13 Fixer       console output during latest compilation on msys2/mingw64: https://pastebin.com/raw/Ynse41up
22:15 Bobr-m      Wow