Time  Nick           Message
02:05 Ighalli        Can anyone help me write the proper lua command to place a door?
02:06 Ighalli        minetest.set_node({x=some_x, y=some_y, z=some_z}, {name="doors:door_steel_b_1"})
02:07 Ighalli        that's what I've been trying, but it only makes the bottom node of the door, and right click interactions don't work
03:02 bigfoot547     Ighalli: 2 things, doors now have 2 nodes: doors:door_wood: The whole node; doors:hidden: Tiny node to stop falling nodes. doors:hidden is placed above the door, make sure it has the same facedir.
03:02 bigfoot547     You are using old doors mod.
03:04 Ighalli        so, stop using the modded door, put down `doors:door_wood` and above that put down `doors:hidden`?
03:04 bigfoot547     Yes.
03:04 Ighalli        That's really helpfu! thanks!
03:05 Ighalli        I guess I'll have to mod the doors myself to remove the windows...
03:08 bigfoot547     Try placing a doors:door_wood without the doors:hidden and try dropping sand on it. Then you will see the purpose of the second node.
03:17 Ighalli        2017-05-27 23:16:47: ERROR[Server]: Map::setNode(): Not allowing to place CONTENT_IGNORE while trying to replace "air" at (188,21,-10) (block (11,1,-1))
03:17 bigfoot547     Doing what?
03:17 Ighalli        that's what I get for trying to use {name="doors:door_wood"}
03:17 bigfoot547     Ah. Is it in unloaded chunks?
03:18 bigfoot547     Mapblocks*
03:18 Ighalli        i think it's loaded. it's only a handful of tiles away from me.  I'm trying to set the nodes
03:19 Ighalli        i was able to replace the neighboring tiles with air and stone
03:20 bigfoot547     Well, doors:door_steel_b_1 is depricated, and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L446 says that it exists.
03:21 Ighalli        yeah I disabled that door mod.  not using steel_b_1 at all now. hmm...
03:22 bigfoot547     The door mod is in mtgame
03:26 Ighalli        the hidden node seems to be being placed.  or at least, I can't put a block there by hand anymore
03:26 bigfoot547     Ok, is the regular door node placed?
03:27 Ighalli        no, the door_wood node throws that error
03:27 Ighalli        and you can build in the node that it ought to occupy
03:29 bigfoot547     hmm... maybe append _a to the nodename. _a and _b are appended for double-door stuff. _a is for normal, _b = reversed.
03:29 bigfoot547     Confirmed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/doors/init.lua#L314-L321
03:30 Ighalli        that did it!
03:30 Ighalli        thanks a ton!
03:31 bigfoot547     No problem! :)
03:31 Ighalli        I'm new to lua and to MT. been trying to figure stuff out based on the wiki, but some things are just not to be found
03:31 bigfoot547     Mhm, the wiki needs a massive update.\
03:32 Ighalli        I'm making a script that reads in ascii mapss (think nethack) and places them in the game world
03:32 bigfoot547     Oh.
03:32 Ighalli        using it to run an RPG in first person when the group goes into a dungeon
03:32 Ighalli        works pretty well, but the first time we used it, I had to place the map and then go around putting in the doors by hand
03:33 bigfoot547     Ah. Well, glad I could help!
03:33 bigfoot547     :)
07:03 nerzhul        merging #5836 in ~10mins
07:03 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5836 -- Added missing levels to logging menu by NathanSalapat
10:14 Raven262       Hello red-arch
10:27 red-001        wb Krock
10:27 Krock          ty
10:32 * mylittlepony prances around in joy at seeing Krock
10:33 nerzhul        well... is mtg enough stable for me generating a beta apk ?
12:29 nerzhul        merging #5839 in ~20 mins
12:29 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5839 -- guiVolumeChange: prevent wrong value position by using 1 label instead of 2 by nerzhul
17:40 H-H-H          hey guys does anyone know of a mod that adds the name of the selected item just above the hotbar similar to that other voxel game of a similar name ?
17:44 VanessaE       unified inventory does that.
17:44 VanessaE       its method is apparently somewhat hacky, but it works
17:45 VanessaE       I think by now, CSM could also be used
17:45 VanessaE       not sure though
17:51 H-H-H          ty VanessaE ive been away from minetest for a while and am just getting a server setup again for the familly :)
17:52 H-H-H          i might have to grab the code i need and implement it in a seperate mod as i have the MC crafting like mod installed which does change the inv
18:03 H-H-H          ty again VanessaE mod made and working
18:03 VanessaE       good deal
18:18 Zeno`          merging #5800 in 10 minutes
18:18 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
18:19 Zeno`          Despite objections from the "community" it's not their decision
18:20 kilbith        closing, re-opening, and then merging on your own decision... your mental stability is kind of questionable
18:20 sfan5          your commit does not even fall into the "trivial" category
18:20 Krock          I disagree
18:20 sfan5          even if it did you couldn't merge it because it's not a fix
18:20 Zeno`          what do you mean not a fix?
18:21 red-001        its a workaround for the existence of the credit tab
18:21 Krock          neither Shara nor VE belong to this list, sorry.
18:21 kilbith        ^
18:21 Zeno`          Krock, celeron55 agreed that Shara should be added
18:21 Zeno`          I did not asked about VE
18:22 celeron55      i said i don't have anything against it
18:22 Zeno`          yeah
18:22 Krock          that's supposed to mean "do what you want, I'm neutal"
18:22 celeron55      well i didn't say "should"
18:22 celeron55      don't misquote me
18:23 Zeno`          celeron55, I apologise. You actually said what you just said
18:23 Fixer          just you the damn git history and post top 20 contribs
18:23 Fixer          you = use
18:23 VanessaE       For the record:  I don't really care if my name gets moved up to "active" or not, though I certainly wouldn't complain.
18:24 Zeno`          bugger it. The file is too controversial. Closed the PR again
18:28 kilbith        your impulsivity seriously question your ability to perfom such duties
18:28 kilbith        *perform
18:28 Zeno`          That was not an impulse. It was a considered decision
18:29 VanessaE       kilbith: technically speaking, that makes him well-suited for dev.
18:29 VanessaE       after all, minetest is written by a bunch of "lunatics" :)
18:29 kilbith        well, it's not like the first time you act that way and got scolded by other devs
18:29 Shara          It feels a bit like hunting season on devs.
18:30 Shara          I wonder how many we'll have left at this rate.
18:30 VanessaE       dev season!  admin season!  dev season!  admin season!  dev season -- fire!  *BANG*
18:30 * Krock        runs away.  delete this;
18:31 Fixer          https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/12357700_464469330405959_1963486238_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTEzNzMwMzY5MjA2NDM3NjIzNA%3D%3D.2
18:32 VanessaE       heh
18:34 Zeno`          kilbith, the core devs said they would not support me merging it so I did not
18:34 Zeno`          I closed it based on my own evaluation
18:34 kilbith        Zeno`> merging #5800 in 10 minutes
18:34 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
18:35 Zeno`          kilbith, and objections were raised so I did not
18:35 Zeno`          those are the rules
18:35 kilbith        you did not get a 2nd approval before they raised
18:35 kilbith        ;)
18:36 Zeno`          I didn't need one because in my opinion the PR was trivial
18:36 Zeno`          just leave it
18:36 Zeno`          I followed the rules to the letter
18:36 sfan5          in fact you didn't
18:36 Zeno`          sfan5, how not?
18:37 Krock          merging the own PR with one approval is ok as long there are no disapprovals (or how to name them()
18:37 Krock          )
18:37 Zeno`          No, a trivial PR needs no approval from a second dev
18:37 sfan5          "If you have a small patch, fixing some compiler error or other trivial mistake," quote end
18:38 sfan5          yours does not confirm to this criteria
18:38 Krock          it's maintenance
18:38 VanessaE       sfan5: to be fair, I've seen "trivial" patches go in that carried more risk than Zeno`'s credits did.
18:38 Zeno`          sfan5, the trivial label had been on that PR since it was opened
18:38 sfan5          its not about the label applied to the torrent
18:38 sfan5          uh
18:38 Zeno`          no core dev objected and said it was not trivial
18:38 sfan5          PR
18:39 sfan5          it's about whether your PR matches the description given in the rules
18:39 Zeno`          editing text is trivial
18:39 sfan5          indeed
18:39 sfan5          but that is not the kind of trivial the rule references
18:39 Zeno`          so the PR was trivial
18:39 sfan5          yes
18:40 kilbith        why did you close this even
18:40 kilbith        you could have found a compromise
18:41 Zeno`          kilbith, because I don't want to be involved with it anymore
18:41 VanessaE       just because it's closed doesn't mean it can't still be merged as-is
18:41 VanessaE       (or with changes)
18:41 Krock          indeed. adapting it shouldn't be a problem
18:42 Shara          just direct to contributors on github and have done really.
18:43 red-001        ^
18:43 red-001        just wipe the contributor section of the credits if it causes this much drama
18:43 Shara          I don't really think I deserve to be included, but on the other hand there's people on there that I am certainly making far more active contributions than. It's just silly.
18:43 Zeno`          just get rid of the tab altogether if you ask me
18:43 Shara          But probably no way to make everyone happy.
18:44 Zeno`          nobody reads it anyway
18:45 Zeno`          and it's a pain and HARD to update because it always upsets someone
18:45 Zeno`          just get rid of it
18:46 VanessaE       all right damn it.  celeron55, would you please merge that PR so we can stop this?
18:47 VanessaE       alter it, don't alter it, I don't care.  just merge the fucking thing.
18:47 Thomas-S       How about removing the contributor section (as suggested above) because it doesn't carry additional information in comparison to the git history, but instead name a few contributors that contributed very, very good things since the last release (e.g. juhdanad for light fixing or numberZero for smooth lightning)?
18:49 Fixer          millersman for water flow :}
18:49 Shara          Thomas-S: then people will likely argue over which things were good enough
18:50 red-001        ^
18:50 red-001        no easy way to win this
18:51 Thomas-S       That would definitely be a problem. Maybe this could be solved by letting this decision being made by a special group of active community members. It would be forbidden to influence their decision or to argue with them about their decision.
18:52 celeron55      well, i would look at this from the standpoint that there actually is a finite list of contributors even if absolutely anything counts
18:53 celeron55      altough it seems people want the list to be much smaller than that
18:53 celeron55      it's a weird issue
18:54 kilbith        too much people in credits and it's no longer honorific for anyone
18:54 red-001        or it's just a large project
18:54 kilbith        no, not really
18:55 celeron55      i guess that's true
18:57 celeron55      a per-release contributor list would seem fine to me, but i'm lazy and adding more stuff to do for releases might not be a good idea; then it would be very honorific which might be nice
19:06 celeron55      i feel like if contributors other than engine developers are listed, then with them it should be listed what they've been doing for being included in the list
19:07 VanessaE       nothing wrong with that, but how would you categorize someone who does multiple things?
19:08 VanessaE       I mean, there's only just so much room to include such a thing
19:08 celeron55      i guess just pick the thing that most closest affects the engine
19:08 celeron55      as it's the engine's credits list anyway
19:08 VanessaE       sounds fair.
19:08 rubenwardy     I'll do that, if you like
19:12 celeron55      this is very non-trivial though, nobody has an objective viewpoint for telling who's done enough to be on the list
19:13 celeron55      i could try, but the end result would probably be worse than just fighting here about it
19:13 VanessaE       heh
19:16 rubenwardy     my algorithm will be to include every non-trivial contributor from the release (more than X commits, not counting documentation/translation changes), and to include the X top contributors for the last 3 years. This should be automated though, ideally
19:16 rubenwardy     s/X top/Y top/g
19:19 celeron55      something like that does seem fair
19:19 red-002        +1
19:20 rubenwardy     at what point should someone be a previous contributor?
19:20 rubenwardy     1 year?
19:20 celeron55      then if there are some honorary mentions or whatever, they can be explicitly added in addition to whatever that algorithm results in
19:20 VanessaE       rubenwardy: since the last major release maybe
19:23 rubenwardy     was thexyz ever a core dev?
19:24 rubenwardy     oh wait, they are there
19:36 rubenwardy     right
19:52 rubenwardy     #5840
19:52 ShadowBot      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5840 -- Update credits by rubenwardy
20:09 Shara          rubenwardy: how many is more than x?
20:10 rubenwardy     X=3, in the end
20:10 rubenwardy     and only counted minetest engine commits
20:10 Shara          so people with mroe than three in this release are added?
20:11 Shara          more*
20:11 rubenwardy     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/graphs/contributors?from=2016-12-20&to=2017-05-28&type=c
20:11 Shara          Why are none of mine showing on that link?
20:12 rubenwardy     what's your username, again?
20:13 Shara          ezhh
20:13 Shara          I've had four commits in this year
20:13 Shara          I'm not saying I should be there, but Zeno included me because I have made commits.
20:13 Shara          You'r PR would add people who don't appear to have made a single commit this year.
20:13 rubenwardy     huh
20:14 rubenwardy     you should be in that contributors list
20:14 rubenwardy     that is very strange, you should be between est31, wuzzy and adrido with 4
20:16 VanessaE       maybe they appear under different names?
20:16 VanessaE       like foo <bar@baz> in one case, foo <bar_something_else@baz> in another case
20:17 VanessaE       I've seen that a lot in commit logs.
20:17 rubenwardy     the commits show up here though: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits?author=Ezhh
20:17 Shara          based on the criteria, there are others who I think should be added but are missed as well
20:17 VanessaE       I see why, rubenwardy
20:18 VanessaE       vanessa@rainbird:~/Minetest-related/minetest_core$ git log |grep -i Ezhh
20:18 VanessaE       Author: ezhh <owlecho@live.com>
20:18 VanessaE       Author: Ezhh <owlecho@live.com>
20:18 VanessaE       (plus two more)
20:18 VanessaE       note the case
20:19 Shara          Tenplus1 possibly qualifies as well, at least based on the dates since some on the list seems to have last commited
20:19 kilbith        so it's actually counted from the number of commits?
20:19 kilbith        irregardless of their importance?
20:19 rubenwardy     I also went down LOC
20:20 Shara          kilbith: who defines importance? The game was unplayable to me without one of my own commits.
20:20 rubenwardy     and I checked that the commits were none trivial
20:20 VanessaE       rubenwardy: commits * LoC * (# days between last commit and last major release)
20:21 VanessaE       that seems like a fair weighting method
20:21 kilbith        a single commit can transcend the whole software
20:21 VanessaE       sure, if it has a shitton of changes
20:21 Shara          Like I said anyway, I'm fine with just not listing contributors. But if we are saying the criteria is a certain thing, anyone in that criteria should be included
20:22 nore           kilbith: we can say that anyone satisfying some criteria will be included, and include some more people for exceptional reasons such as the one you just mentionned
20:23 halt_          included in what?
20:27 rubenwardy     tomorrow I could look into making a script to automate this
20:27 rubenwardy     given that the contributors list doesn't seem to work
20:28 VanessaE       rubenwardy: don't like my weighted idea?
20:28 rubenwardy     I'll use something like that
20:28 VanessaE       ok
20:28 red-002        Zeno`, did you lift the ban on grandolf?
21:44 red-002        huh how is Grandolf joining if he is banned?
21:44 red-002        I don't think this $a:Grandolf thing is working
22:43 * H-H-H        has only just noticed that in default the chests actually open lol
22:52 rubenwardy     H-H-H: thank sofar for that
22:52 VanessaE       and thank me for putting the textures right ;)
22:52 H-H-H          only thing is they dont seem to play nice with technic and or pipeworks lol
22:52 VanessaE       H-H-H: fixes coming soon-ish.
22:53 VanessaE       after 0.4.16 goes out
22:53 VanessaE       also, wrong channel :P
22:53 H-H-H          nice :) ty :P
23:11 bigfoot547     Should I make a system to back up world folders? And auto-save?
23:15 bigfoot547     I will make the backup directory .minetest/backups/<worldname>.
23:17 bigfoot547     Would that be a good idea?
23:23 VanessaE       I think most server owners use a script for that
23:24 VanessaE       i.e. cron to run a script that does basically `killall -INT minetest`, `rsync` to initiate the backup, and then restart the server afterward
23:24 VanessaE       but some kind of generic backup script might be useful
23:25 bigfoot547     I think world-auto backup might be good because you don't need to restart the server.
23:26 bigfoot547     Should auto-save warnings be in public chat? I think so because that means that if that is a big server, lag-spike incoming!
23:30 VanessaE       auto-backup would probably be impossible though
23:30 bigfoot547     wHY?
23:30 VanessaE       the purpose of a true backup is to have something you can refer back to (or restore from) that hasn't changed in X amount of time
23:30 VanessaE       whereas what you propose sounds more like simply keeping two copies of the map
23:30 VanessaE       (i.e. realtime)
23:31 bigfoot547     well, you could have a worldname-20170528 and have maybe 3 beck in time?
23:32 VanessaE       and for large worlds, the time it takes to copy a map is measured in minutes, not milliseconds, so it's not something that can be done with the server running
23:32 VanessaE       my public servers keep two days' worth of backups
23:32 VanessaE       in total, those backups use 115 GB
23:33 Shara          It's not even possible for some of us to keep multiple backups
23:33 Shara          They get big.
23:33 bigfoot547     Hm. Maybe keep 1 backup, and make a /backup command.
23:33 VanessaE       I used to keep a full week's worth of backups, but as Shara said, too big.
23:33 rubenwardy     with a transaction based database, couldn't you make the database readonly whilst backing up, and instead write changes as transactions until it's no longer read only
23:33 VanessaE       bigfoot547: still impossible.  big worlds are REALLY big, like 10-20 GB
23:33 VanessaE       you just can't back that up while the server's online and expect reasonably low lag
23:34 rubenwardy     without transactions you'd definitely need to stop the server
23:34 VanessaE       rubenwardy: perhaps, but which databases can do that?
23:34 rubenwardy     MySQL can
23:34 rubenwardy     It's transaction based at least
23:35 bigfoot547     Soooo, basically, no, no backups.
23:35 VanessaE       not while the server's up, no.
23:36 VanessaE       shut down, rsync to your backup storage, start up.
23:36 bigfoot547     Ok...
23:37 bigfoot547     Well, for small maps, it could still be useful right?
23:38 VanessaE       even the smallest map will still be a couple hundred megs
23:39 bigfoot547     So 100,000 bytes on a 1,000,000,000,000 byte hard-drive. I don't see a problem
23:39 VanessaE       it isn't a question of storage
23:39 VanessaE       it's a question of time
23:39 bigfoot547     How long would it take?
23:40 red-002        do any of the databases minetes supports support snaps shots or something like that?
23:40 VanessaE       taking a live backup would take time away from the server, thus preventing it from communicating with clients, and again, you would not end up with a map that hasn't been touched in X hours/days/etc.
23:40 VanessaE       red-002: I think redis does?  not sure
23:40 VanessaE       bigfoot547: how long?  a few minutes on a slower hard drive I suppose
23:40 VanessaE       less than a minute on a good SSD
23:41 red-002        wouldn't that be the best way to do regular backups?
23:41 VanessaE       but server lag is generally measured in tenths of seconds
23:41 VanessaE       red-002: not really, because there are other housekeeping things you should generally do, such as clearing out abandoned accounts, generating overview maps, uploading your backups to FTP, etc.
23:58 bigfoot547     Well, back when I didn't write code for minetest, I would have segfaults and my map would get corrupted, and I would get mad. If only I had a backup...
23:58 bigfoot547     Also my saves were, like hundreds of kilobytes.
23:58 VanessaE       right, and if you were doing some kind of live backups, likely both maps would get corrupted at the same time
23:59 bigfoot547     I was not doing a live backup. My idea was not to a live backup, but rather to do auto-saving.