Time Nick Message 02:02 Grandolf there are many new things to translate on this release, impressive 02:02 Grandolf i added some Fr translations to weblate 02:02 Grandolf r u adding language translations? 02:04 VanessaE he's not here, Grandolf 02:05 Grandolf yea 02:06 Grandolf but the way he said it made me think someone else was maybe adding it, also other ppl would prob know about it 02:06 Wuzzy Grandolf: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/ 02:07 Wuzzy I just finished German translation :) 02:07 Wuzzy sadly, mods and subgames are still not translatable :( 02:09 Grandolf cant make minetest check its language, and change english words word by word into another language? 02:09 VanessaE sfan5: remember the timeout issue? BakerPrime reports that he was able to get around it by using a very old 0.4.14-era client, and his sibling at the same IP uses Linux, which may be why he could get on and BP could not. 02:09 Grandolf might not b as accurate, but it would b something 03:37 paramat ~tell nerzhul yes i'll update 'settings' stuff in MTG 03:37 ShadowBot paramat: O.K. 03:39 paramat Wuzzy mgv7 terrain 'alt' means 'alternative' or 'alternate'. it's slightly sloppy naming by hmmmm 03:40 Wuzzy ok thx 03:40 Wuzzy FYI: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5796 03:41 paramat ok 03:41 paramat 'terrain base' in mgv7 is actually the higher cliff terrain, makes no sense 03:44 paramat yes i see the cause of 5796, will fix before release 05:26 nerzhul pushing a lint fix, and removing the diff method for linter when in PR (it doesn't work well and doesn't detect problems) 09:04 tenplus1 hi folks 09:04 tenplus1 is freeze final ? already 09:05 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543 09:22 nerzhul for core engine it's applied yes, for game i hope paramat did it 09:23 tenplus1 nrz? are we talking the pull or something else ? 09:24 nerzhul for the feature requests 09:24 tenplus1 damn, so creative priv wont get into 0.4.16 :(( 11:39 paramat #5798 is a bugfix that hopefully can be in release, fixes #5796, tested 11:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat 11:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5796 -- Floating decorations in v6 at default settings (caused by mudflow?) 11:40 paramat i'll update mtg settings later today 13:50 Zeno` #5800 13:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno- 13:51 nerzhul wtf 13:51 nerzhul better, move kahrl & est31 to previous developpers :) 13:52 VanessaE actually, kahrl isn't quite dead yet 13:52 nerzhul he is in the inactive team 13:52 VanessaE he was last seen commenting on a minetest issue a few weeks ago 13:52 kilbith it's about committing 13:52 VanessaE I knos. 13:52 VanessaE know* 14:01 Zeno` Sokomine does not belong in active contributers either 14:02 Zeno` I dunno how she even got added (kwoleker added her) 14:02 Zeno` kahrl... he should remain 14:02 VanessaE kahrl has a special place imho 14:02 Zeno` he does often tell us stuff (although sometimes in PM) 14:03 Zeno` he does more than people know 14:03 Fixer i hope his returns to mt dev 14:03 Fixer he* 14:03 Sokomine Zeno`: that's right. i did change something regarding the plantlike drawtype in the past, but it was a very very small change and is nothing at all compared to the work of the real devs 14:04 Zeno` but sokomine as a contributor is a bit dubious 14:04 nerzhul i never see a kahrl message since... before previous release, but anyway if you want to kahrl. Please note i don't thanks him for the wchar_t mismatch :p 14:04 Zeno` Sokomine, I'm not being nasty by the way 14:04 Fixer thats ok, everyone leaves bugs 14:05 Zeno` Sokomine, I'm just looking at total commits and when they were made. Do you consider yourself currently active? 14:05 Sokomine Zeno`: don't worry. i don't see it that way. i was just trying to explain how i might have gotten in. i don't think my very very minor work is in any way comparable to the work of the other devs. that would be very unfair towards those that work as real devs here 14:05 Zeno` Sokomine, I hate this job. So moving you to previous contribs would be ok? 14:07 Sokomine paramat was hoping to add me to the devs. but i havn't contributed much (just that very very minor point) and am not currently working in any way on the code. my current project is still extending my villages mod - in the form of citybuilder, as something where you can extend (another kind of) village manually. something like these citybuilder games in general. that's more than enough work :-) 14:07 Zeno` yeah I know all the good work you've done which is why I hate this editing job 14:07 Sokomine that would be ok, zeno. if i ever contribute more in the future (who knows what that might bring) it can be changed anyway 14:08 Sokomine yes. but it's work on a mod. not so much on the code 14:08 Zeno` of course it can be changed 14:09 Sokomine don't worry about that, zeno. i know how much i've contributed to the code of mt engine - and that really isn't much and does not deserve me getting mentionned there. it would just be out of proportion 14:09 Zeno` do you want me to add "listens to abba" to your name? 14:09 Sokomine what is abba? 14:09 Zeno` kinda like lego I think 14:10 Sokomine hm. can't add that to my name as i've never heared of it 14:10 Sokomine if you want to drop a hint you can add that i'm working on villages for mt. the current project is a conitunation/extension of that anyway 14:11 Sokomine voxelmanip works nicely fast, and the citybuilding will happen mostly in singleplayer (no real point on servers), so there's no reason to put it into the engine 14:12 Sokomine but i won't mind beeing associated with "building with lego". loved doing that as a child. some people even say that mc (and mt is similar here) is a way for adults to get away with playing with lego :-) 14:13 paramat game#1742 does anyone know where the deprecation messages for settings appear? can't find them 14:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat 14:13 Sokomine there might be some overlap with pathfinding and mobs in the future. i'm hoping to be able to cooperate with other modders in that regard and not to have to write the mobs myshelf. there are lots of mods out there who do similar things - but not yet all what i need/want 14:18 Sokomine paramat: perhaps builtin/game/deprecated.lua ? it does mention deprectated settings and has a promising name. not sure if that's what you're looking for 14:19 paramat thanks, but i mean, where are the messages printed when the old API is used, in terminal, in debug.txt? 14:21 paramat the messages use 'core.log()' 14:28 nerzhul Sokomine, i think city building in mapgen permit to have nice maps by default, with a very very good performance in mapgen (which is a bottle neck...), i think it can be done nicely having a core building module for mapgen and lua can register schematics associated to buildings 14:29 nerzhul buildings, mines, huge ruins can be nice 14:33 Sokomine nerzhul: well, it would be easier if the mod could just tell mapgen where to put which schematic without having to place it manually. but that's not all that needs to be done to create the villages. the terrain needs to be adjusted. having the flattening code inside the engine could be helpful 14:33 paramat hmm indeed 14:34 nerzhul Sokomine, i think it's better to have a more intelligent engine and reduce lua workload which is singlethreaded 14:34 Sokomine it's very fast using voxelmanip. i even tried it on my 4 year old rather cheap smartphone - and it worked even there. so speed is less of a limit. still, copying data between engine and lua side does take some toll in regard to performance 14:36 Sokomine when i last did some performance checks reading and writing the mapgen data took about as much or more time in many cases than the actual village creation, terrain adjustment and placement. so that seems to be the bottleneck. but not a very tight one 14:36 Sokomine i do think that having flat land from time to time (maybe valleys, but far less extreme than valleys mapgen) could be helpful 14:37 paramat i'm working on that 14:37 paramat my intention for any new core mapgen is naturally occuring flat areas 14:38 Sokomine ooh. that is very good to hear :-) you did help a lot with the terrain adjustment during the development. without yours, hmmms and nores work that would not have been possible 14:39 Sokomine very glad to hear that. naturally occuring flat areas are those that make building for a lot of players a lot easier. many many of them first of all flatten the terrain. only very few adjust or even create their own terrain 14:39 nerzhul paramat, do you think it's possible to have a sort of schematic interface permitting modder to put schematic with some conditions in the mapgen ? 14:40 nerzhul Sokomine, the problems tend to be greater with high workload server, and i really want MT to handle 50 player without lag with a decent mod list (not too huge) for next release (0.5) 14:41 Sokomine nerzhul: i think that ought to be relatively easy. after all mapgen already has some idea where it did place which structure. so telling it before creating a mapchunk where which schematic ought to be put in which way (including replacements for materials and rotation) ought to be doable. it could help other mods as well 14:41 paramat yes probably possible, some of that may be beyond my coding ability though. the mapgen stuff i can do 14:42 nerzhul Sokomine, the difficulty is some schematics can be on multiple mapblocks, but i can be very nice to have that 14:42 nerzhul if we cannot do it in the first mapgen pass we can do it in second pass 14:43 nerzhul emergethreads are there for improving mapgen workload and they tend to wait for lua on ServerThread too often 14:43 Sokomine nerzhul: that's right. many players, many of them exploring new areas...that's expensive. but it does not need to be a problem. the villages are there to make singleplayer more alive, less empty. they're less needed on a server where there are already plenty of other players. those players need space to create their own constructions. they also need to meet each other frequently in order to be happy 14:43 Sokomine , so they'll usually not explore new terrain all the time 14:43 nerzhul Sokomine, villages tend to be in the adventure/rpg mode, and many servers owners like that in survival, imagine you go to a zombie city 14:44 nerzhul and with friends you should attack the city of defend it against other zombies :) 14:44 nerzhul i don't tell we should have corruscant mapgen :D 14:44 nerzhul (but if somes wants, why not :p) 14:45 paramat for MTG the only remaining issue is hopefully fixed by #5300 but that needs rebase and testing. < Fixer 14:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5300 -- Fix "breaking then right-clicking a chest causes a crash" in Minetest Game by presstabstart 14:46 Sokomine nerzhul: there's some overlap with neighbouring mapchunks which covers quite a lot of schematics (but not all). schematics can't be too big in order to not to look too unnatural where they are placed. as long as the lua mod that tells mapgen what it wants where does keep consistency mapgen can disregard overlapping of anything that does not fit in 14:46 Sokomine nerzhul: that won't make you explore huge areas of the world :-) you'd stay in/around your city and defend it from thosse hostile mobs :-) 14:47 nerzhul yeah, but you can have villages, alone houses with a farmer for example, and that permit to create mines, huge mines with rails & carts too 14:47 nerzhul it's nice :D 14:47 nerzhul and real dungeons 14:47 nerzhul it replace air, but can replace stone too :) 14:49 nerzhul as a miner i really want to fall into a mine with rails and carts :D 14:50 Sokomine nerzhul: i tried to develop a mines with shaft mod. it didn't turn out the way i wanted it. trouble is that what is of most intrest to me are entrances to mines - be they vertical or horizontal. all that depends heavily on the terrain. having a mine somewhere deep below and not connected to anything at all always seemed strange to me (same as the dungeons - i always wonder who built them and why and 14:50 Sokomine how they did get in or out...) 14:51 * paramat eats a coruscant 14:52 Sokomine what kept me from developing that mines mod further was mostly a lack of understanding of the noise stuff. guess i really need to learn that one day. the villages store where they are and where each building is in a data strucutre. the mines...might work better if they use noise 14:53 * Sokomine stares at paramat and wonders weather leo translated that unkown adjective correctly or not 14:55 paramat well do ask me about noise, i am interested in a good mines mod 14:56 nerzhul good mines mods => mapgen 14:56 nerzhul register_biome_mine of a similar thing, with associated nodes for rails, wooden fences, carts :) 15:34 Sokomine paramat: the idea of my mod was to have vertical shafts in addition to the (pretty standard) horizontal tunnels. the main vertical shaft is marked with a tower consisting of fences, ropes and special rail-ladder-combinations. when a horizontal tunnel reaches the surface (because it was embedded in a hill or it hits a cliff from the inside), it becomes a mine entrance. mt has a very small-scale terra 15:34 Sokomine in. it's sometimes tricky to decide when to build a bridge to cover the few nodes until the tunnel can continue on the other side of a small hole/cave or when to actually have an entrance 15:35 Sokomine it also does not look well if the terrain is not steep enough 15:38 Sokomine the first step would be to decide where to start the main shaft. such positions need to be known in order to be ready to generate something if the player approaches a potential tunnel from below or from the side. other mine creation mods don't have that problem as they don't care about entrances 15:39 Sokomine and then there needs to be something roughly spheroid that limits the range of the mining operation, the extension to the sides. in a way that's like taking the village area to 3d 15:42 Sokomine mapgen could come in by making sure that there's nice terrain where the mine is located (nice terrain: some high cliffs where a mine entrance does fit in; smooth flat hills are less suitable) 15:58 paramat well, best not alter mapgen for a mine, instead make a mine work with any terrain. this has similarities to my 'catacomb' mod, in that i want to create an entrance shaft from the surface 16:00 Sokomine hmm. there are limits 16:06 paramat yeah, a vertical shaft going up through crazy 3D noise mountains would not be good 16:08 Sokomine the vertical shaft isn't such a big problem. the horizontal ones are - once they hit the surface 16:09 Sokomine at the time of creation it just isn't really known if at that point the tunnel ought to end, have a bridge and continue on the other side, or become an entrance 16:12 Sokomine paramat: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/screenshot_20170522_180115-ckt0hnaZ.1495469537.png does not look well. that is what is to be avoided when having tunnels on the surface 16:16 Fixer paramat: i need his rebase first, so i can test that chest bug 16:16 paramat yeah. tunnels can be kept below 'water level', this will stop them coming to the surface 16:17 Sokomine tunnels i'm satisfied with: http://www.picpaste.com/tunnel1-XxwTPA9Q.jpg http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel2-FZfU8HcL.1495469757.jpg full tunnel network: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel3-Ec7aSuJn.1495469782.jpg or another nice tunnel: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel4-VjdBIg8b.1495469817.jpg 16:17 paramat Fixer yes, but you could possibly test his old-engine branch with latest MTG, although that's not as reliable a test 16:17 Sokomine paramat: but "below water" is not what i want 16:19 paramat shall we move this to hub as is more a mod discussion? 16:19 Fixer paramat: will wait rebase :) 16:19 paramat Fixer yes that's best 16:24 twoelk so any chance of a public server? 16:56 Sokomine paramt: sure. let's talk on -hub 17:15 Krock Zeno`, well done. 17:27 Zeno` Krock, see latest comment 17:28 Zeno` I changed it to specify which ABBA songs are good and which are not 17:28 Krock nice pretext :P 17:28 Zeno` it really is though 17:28 Krock okay 17:30 Zeno` did you really think the current PR would be approved and merged? :) 17:30 Krock yes! 100% 17:31 Zeno` darn 17:31 Zeno` lol 17:32 VanessaE man you guys have need a sense-of-humor transplant :) 17:32 Krock and I need a "/s" transplant for my last message above 17:32 VanessaE actually I'm talking about the comments in the "PR" :) 17:33 Krock it's an actual PR, no need to add quotes 17:34 VanessaE meanwhile, does anyone have any insight into #5799 ? 17:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5799 -- Client timeouts during and after sign-in, after "connecting" phase is over. 17:35 paramat Fixer #5801 is 5300 rebased 17:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat 17:36 paramat about game#1742 to test i need to know where the deprecation messages appear 'core.log' but i can't see them in terminal or in verbose debug 17:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat 17:36 paramat bemusing 17:36 paramat ^ ShadowNinja 17:36 Zeno` For anyone who doesn't understand the real reason for #5800 I'll explain tomorrow in PM to anyone who asks 17:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno- 17:37 Fixer paramat: okay 17:45 ShadowNinja paramat: See comment. 17:48 nerzhul paramat, i should one thing. Translating mapgen settings to french is painful 17:48 nerzhul :p 17:52 nerzhul paramat, for #5801 please change that 17:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat 17:52 nerzhul the asumption that handleDigging is false when on_punchnode can be false if a node is removed in a future usecase, just do meta = map.getNodeMetadata(nodepos) another time 17:52 nerzhul to ensure updated meta is get (if modified by CSM, maybe that can happen) 17:52 nerzhul (not atm but in the future) 17:53 paramat thanks SN 17:54 paramat nerzhul thanks but i don't remotely understand this PR, and i see you have issues with it :] 17:54 nerzhul i simplify it greatly 17:55 nerzhul remove all diff, change meta = NULL to meta = map.getNodeMetadata(nodepos) and that's all 17:55 nerzhul :p 17:55 nerzhul if after we add meta local modifications on CSM it's ready :) or if we alter local meta for a reason 17:56 paramat hang on, what you suggest is simple, i can code this 17:56 blue-001 well adding support for csm writing to local meta wouldn't be hard 17:56 blue-001 not sure if thats something we want to added through 17:58 blue-001 note: current csm meta is a copy of the meta at the time the referance is created unlike server meta which afaik gets updated if the meta gets updated 17:59 nerzhul blue-001, for this release it's too late 17:59 nerzhul we are in feature freeze 17:59 nerzhul oh ! 17:59 nerzhul paramat, 17:59 nerzhul better 18:00 nerzhul drop the whole pr and move meta and the lower condition under the meta=null bloc 18:01 nerzhul paramat, i'm editing your PR from github, if there are issues with spaces can you fix them locally ? 18:04 nerzhul rewrote #5801 18:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat 18:04 nerzhul it's now impossible to have wrong meta in this code part :) 18:04 nerzhul it's read after digging 18:05 Krock no space issues as far I can see 18:06 nerzhul yeah :) github should have enhanced this 18:07 nerzhul this fixed the meta issues properly without adding any vicious bool 18:07 nerzhul (just amend myself as commit author paramat as i rewrote all :p) 18:10 nerzhul Fixer, can you test #5801 as i rewrote please ? 18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Read meta after node digging to ensure it is correct by paramat 18:10 Fixer nerzhul: yes, in 1 hour i will test it 18:14 paramat nerzhul thanks do take over, i don't know how to proceed if you take over so i'll leave it to you 18:15 paramat yes make yourself author :] 18:17 paramat and if good a new commit message of course 18:20 paramat #5798 is updated as requested and retested 18:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat 18:25 nerzhul "IME Accept" what is that ? many strings contain IME in translations 18:26 sfan5 those are names of keyboard keys 18:27 nerzhul key I key m and key E ? 18:27 sfan5 no a seperate key 18:27 sfan5 just dont translate it 18:28 nerzhul IME has no sense on french keyboard 18:28 nerzhul what key is this ? 18:29 * blue-001 has no idea 18:29 blue-001 the keynames are a bit strange sometimes 18:33 nerzhul paramat, i squashed #5801 18:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Read meta after node digging to ensure it is correct by paramat 18:35 sfan5 nerzhul: none, it doesnt exist on french keyboards 18:51 paramat ok 19:15 nerzhul sfan5, oh, and what is the interest on other keyboards ? 19:15 sfan5 it's used by the IME like i said 19:16 nerzhul what is IME ? 19:17 sfan5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method 19:40 paramat feel free to merge #5798 and/or game#1742 i'm too tired to do so tonight 19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat 19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat 20:15 nerzhul Fixer, did you tested ? 20:15 Fixer nerzhul: yes, i've tried dozen of times, no luck crashing it 20:16 Fixer nerzhul: wait a sec 20:17 Fixer nerzhul: no crash, but i managed to put the side by its side and it does not have its inventory 20:17 nerzhul no crash because it's fixed heh 20:17 Fixer yes 20:17 nerzhul meta is called after dig, cannot crash :) 20:17 Fixer somehow managed to place it by its side 20:18 Fixer when opening it https://i.imgur.com/19P8igC.png 20:18 Fixer view of chest https://i.imgur.com/wFwoS3F.png 20:18 VanessaE Fixer: I had that happen too 20:18 VanessaE just fyi 20:18 VanessaE wasn't sure why