Time  Nick        Message
02:02 Grandolf    <nerzhul> there are many new things to translate on this release, impressive
02:02 Grandolf    <nerzhul> i added some Fr translations to weblate
02:02 Grandolf    r u adding language translations?
02:04 VanessaE    he's not here, Grandolf
02:05 Grandolf    yea
02:06 Grandolf    but the way he said it made me think someone else was maybe adding it, also other ppl would prob know about it
02:06 Wuzzy       Grandolf: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/
02:07 Wuzzy       I just finished German translation :)
02:07 Wuzzy       sadly, mods and subgames are still not translatable :(
02:09 Grandolf    cant make minetest check its language, and change english words word by word into another language?
02:09 VanessaE    sfan5: remember the timeout issue?  BakerPrime reports that he was able to get around it by using a very old 0.4.14-era client, and his sibling at the same IP uses Linux, which may be why he could get on and BP could not.
02:09 Grandolf    might not b as accurate, but it would b something
03:37 paramat     ~tell nerzhul yes i'll update 'settings' stuff in MTG
03:37 ShadowBot   paramat: O.K.
03:39 paramat     Wuzzy mgv7 terrain 'alt' means 'alternative' or 'alternate'. it's slightly sloppy naming by hmmmm
03:40 Wuzzy       ok thx
03:40 Wuzzy       FYI: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5796
03:41 paramat     ok
03:41 paramat     'terrain base' in mgv7 is actually the higher cliff terrain, makes no sense
03:44 paramat     yes i see the cause of 5796, will fix before release
05:26 nerzhul     pushing a lint fix, and removing the diff method for linter when in PR (it doesn't work well and doesn't detect problems)
09:04 tenplus1    hi folks
09:04 tenplus1    is freeze final ? already
09:05 tenplus1    https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1543
09:22 nerzhul     for core engine it's applied yes, for game i hope paramat did it
09:23 tenplus1    nrz? are we talking the pull or something else ?
09:24 nerzhul     for the feature requests
09:24 tenplus1    damn, so creative priv wont get into 0.4.16 :((
11:39 paramat     #5798 is a bugfix that hopefully can be in release, fixes #5796, tested
11:39 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat
11:39 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5796 -- Floating decorations in v6 at default settings (caused by mudflow?)
11:40 paramat     i'll update mtg settings later today
13:50 Zeno`       #5800
13:50 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
13:51 nerzhul     wtf
13:51 nerzhul     better, move kahrl & est31 to previous developpers :)
13:52 VanessaE    actually, kahrl isn't quite dead yet
13:52 nerzhul     he is in the inactive team
13:52 VanessaE    he was last seen commenting on a minetest issue a few weeks ago
13:52 kilbith     it's about committing
13:52 VanessaE    I knos.
13:52 VanessaE    know*
14:01 Zeno`       Sokomine does not belong in active contributers either
14:02 Zeno`       I dunno how she even got added (kwoleker added her)
14:02 Zeno`       kahrl... he should remain
14:02 VanessaE    kahrl has a special place imho
14:02 Zeno`       he does often tell us stuff (although sometimes in PM)
14:03 Zeno`       he does more than people know
14:03 Fixer       i hope his returns to mt dev
14:03 Fixer       he*
14:03 Sokomine    Zeno`: that's right. i did change something regarding the plantlike drawtype in the past, but it was a very very small change and is nothing at all compared to the work of the real devs
14:04 Zeno`       but sokomine as a contributor is a bit dubious
14:04 nerzhul     i never see a kahrl message since... before previous release, but anyway if you want to kahrl. Please note i don't thanks him for the wchar_t mismatch :p
14:04 Zeno`       Sokomine, I'm not being nasty by the way
14:04 Fixer       thats ok, everyone leaves bugs
14:05 Zeno`       Sokomine, I'm just looking at total commits and when they were made. Do you consider yourself currently active?
14:05 Sokomine    Zeno`: don't worry. i don't see it that way. i was just trying to explain how i might have gotten in. i don't think my very very minor work is in any way comparable to the work of the other devs. that would be very unfair towards those that work as real devs here
14:05 Zeno`       Sokomine, I hate this job. So moving you to previous contribs would be ok?
14:07 Sokomine    paramat was hoping to add me to the devs. but i havn't contributed much (just that very very minor point) and am not currently working in any way on the code. my current project is still extending my villages mod - in the form of citybuilder, as something where you can extend (another kind of) village manually. something like these citybuilder games in general. that's more than enough work :-)
14:07 Zeno`       yeah I know all the good work you've done which is why I hate this editing job
14:07 Sokomine    that would be ok, zeno. if i ever contribute more in the future (who knows what that might bring) it can be changed anyway
14:08 Sokomine    yes. but it's work on a mod. not so much on the code
14:08 Zeno`       of course it can be changed
14:09 Sokomine    don't worry about that, zeno. i know how much i've contributed to the code of mt engine - and that really isn't much and does not deserve me getting mentionned there. it would just be out of proportion
14:09 Zeno`       do you want me to add "listens to abba" to your name?
14:09 Sokomine    what is abba?
14:09 Zeno`       kinda like lego I think
14:10 Sokomine    hm. can't add that to my name as i've never heared of it
14:10 Sokomine    if you want to drop a hint you can add that i'm working on villages for mt. the current project is a conitunation/extension of that anyway
14:11 Sokomine    voxelmanip works nicely fast, and the citybuilding will happen mostly in singleplayer (no real point on servers), so there's no reason to put it into the engine
14:12 Sokomine    but i won't mind beeing associated with "building with lego". loved doing that as a child. some people even say that mc (and mt is similar here) is a way for adults to get away with playing with lego :-)
14:13 paramat     game#1742 does anyone know where the deprecation messages for settings appear? can't find them
14:13 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat
14:13 Sokomine    there might be some overlap with pathfinding and mobs in the future. i'm hoping to be able to cooperate with other modders in that regard and not to have to write the mobs myshelf. there are lots of mods out there who do similar things - but not yet all what i need/want
14:18 Sokomine    paramat: perhaps builtin/game/deprecated.lua ? it does mention deprectated settings and has a promising name. not sure if that's what you're looking for
14:19 paramat     thanks, but i mean, where are the messages printed when the old API is used, in terminal, in debug.txt?
14:21 paramat     the messages use 'core.log()'
14:28 nerzhul     Sokomine, i think city building in mapgen permit to have nice maps by default, with a very very good performance in mapgen (which is a bottle neck...), i think it can be done nicely having a core building module for mapgen and lua can register schematics associated to buildings
14:29 nerzhul     buildings, mines, huge ruins can be nice
14:33 Sokomine    nerzhul: well, it would be easier if the mod could just tell mapgen where to put which schematic without having to place it manually. but that's not all that needs to be done to create the villages. the terrain needs to be adjusted. having the flattening code inside the engine could be helpful
14:33 paramat     hmm indeed
14:34 nerzhul     Sokomine, i think it's better to have a more intelligent engine and reduce lua workload which is singlethreaded
14:34 Sokomine    it's very fast using voxelmanip. i even tried it on my 4 year old rather cheap smartphone - and it worked even there. so speed is less of a limit. still, copying data between engine and lua side does take some toll in regard to performance
14:36 Sokomine    when i last did some performance checks reading and writing the mapgen data took about as much or more time in many cases than the actual village creation, terrain adjustment and placement. so that seems to be the bottleneck. but not a very tight one
14:36 Sokomine    i do think that having flat land from time to time (maybe valleys, but far less extreme than valleys mapgen) could be helpful
14:37 paramat     i'm working on that
14:37 paramat     my intention for any new core mapgen is naturally occuring flat areas
14:38 Sokomine    ooh. that is very good to hear :-) you did help a lot with the terrain adjustment during the development. without yours, hmmms and nores work that would not have been possible
14:39 Sokomine    very glad to hear that. naturally occuring flat areas are those that make building for a lot of players a lot easier. many many of them first of all flatten the terrain. only very few adjust or even create their own terrain
14:39 nerzhul     paramat, do you think it's possible to have a sort of schematic interface permitting modder to put schematic with some conditions in the mapgen ?
14:40 nerzhul     Sokomine, the problems tend to be greater with high workload server, and i really want MT to handle 50 player without lag with a decent mod list (not too huge) for next release (0.5)
14:41 Sokomine    nerzhul: i think that ought to be relatively easy. after all mapgen already has some idea where it did place which structure. so telling it before creating a mapchunk where which schematic ought to be put in which way (including replacements for materials and rotation) ought to be doable. it could help other mods as well
14:41 paramat     yes probably possible, some of that may be beyond my coding ability though. the mapgen stuff i can do
14:42 nerzhul     Sokomine, the difficulty is some schematics can be on multiple mapblocks, but i can be very nice to have that
14:42 nerzhul     if we cannot do it in the first mapgen pass we can do it in second pass
14:43 nerzhul     emergethreads are there for improving mapgen workload and they tend to wait for lua on ServerThread too often
14:43 Sokomine    nerzhul: that's right. many players, many of them exploring new areas...that's expensive. but it does not need to be a problem. the villages are there to make singleplayer more alive, less empty. they're less needed on a server where there are already plenty of other players. those players need space to create their own constructions. they also need to meet each other frequently in order to be happy
14:43 Sokomine    , so they'll usually not explore new terrain all the time
14:43 nerzhul     Sokomine, villages tend to be in the adventure/rpg mode, and many servers owners like that in survival, imagine you go to a zombie city
14:44 nerzhul     and with friends you should attack the city of defend it against other zombies :)
14:44 nerzhul     i don't tell we should have corruscant mapgen :D
14:44 nerzhul     (but if somes wants, why not :p)
14:45 paramat     for MTG the only remaining issue is hopefully fixed by #5300 but that needs rebase and testing. < Fixer
14:45 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5300 -- Fix "breaking then right-clicking a chest causes a crash" in Minetest Game by presstabstart
14:46 Sokomine    nerzhul: there's some overlap with neighbouring mapchunks which covers quite a lot of schematics (but not all). schematics can't be too big in order to not to look too unnatural where they are placed. as long as the lua mod that tells mapgen what it wants where does keep consistency mapgen can disregard overlapping of anything that does not fit in
14:46 Sokomine    nerzhul: that won't make you explore huge areas of the world :-) you'd stay in/around your city and defend it from thosse hostile mobs :-)
14:47 nerzhul     yeah, but you can have villages, alone houses with a farmer for example, and that permit to create mines, huge mines with rails & carts too
14:47 nerzhul     it's nice :D
14:47 nerzhul     and real dungeons
14:47 nerzhul     it replace air, but can replace stone too :)
14:49 nerzhul     as a miner i really want to fall into a mine with rails and carts :D
14:50 Sokomine    nerzhul: i tried to develop a mines with shaft mod. it didn't turn out the way i wanted it. trouble is that what is of most intrest to me are entrances to mines - be they vertical or horizontal. all that depends heavily on the terrain. having a mine somewhere deep below and not connected to anything at all always seemed strange to me (same as the dungeons - i always wonder who built them and why and
14:50 Sokomine    how they did get in or out...)
14:51 * paramat   eats a coruscant
14:52 Sokomine    what kept me from developing that mines mod further was mostly a lack of understanding of the noise stuff. guess i really need to learn that one day. the villages store where they are and where each building is in a data strucutre. the mines...might work better if they use noise
14:53 * Sokomine  stares at paramat and wonders weather leo translated that unkown adjective correctly or not
14:55 paramat     well do ask me about noise, i am interested in a good mines mod
14:56 nerzhul     good mines mods => mapgen
14:56 nerzhul     register_biome_mine of a similar thing, with associated nodes for rails, wooden fences, carts :)
15:34 Sokomine    paramat: the idea of my mod was to have vertical shafts in addition to the (pretty standard) horizontal tunnels. the main vertical shaft is marked with a tower consisting of fences, ropes and special rail-ladder-combinations. when a horizontal tunnel reaches the surface (because it was embedded in a hill or it hits a cliff from the inside), it becomes a mine entrance. mt has a very small-scale terra
15:34 Sokomine    in. it's sometimes tricky to decide when to build a bridge to cover the few nodes until the tunnel can continue on the other side of a small hole/cave or when to actually have an entrance
15:35 Sokomine    it also does not look well if the terrain is not steep enough
15:38 Sokomine    the first step would be to decide where to start the main shaft. such positions need to be known in order to be ready to generate something if the player approaches a potential tunnel from below or from the side. other mine creation mods don't have that problem as they don't care about entrances
15:39 Sokomine    and then there needs to be something roughly spheroid that limits the range of the mining operation, the extension to the sides. in a way that's like taking the village area to 3d
15:42 Sokomine    mapgen could come in by making sure that there's nice terrain where the mine is located (nice terrain: some high cliffs where a mine entrance does fit in; smooth flat hills are less suitable)
15:58 paramat     well, best not alter mapgen for a mine, instead make a mine work with any terrain. this has similarities to my 'catacomb' mod, in that i want to create an entrance shaft from the surface
16:00 Sokomine    hmm. there are limits
16:06 paramat     yeah, a vertical shaft going up through crazy 3D noise mountains would not be good
16:08 Sokomine    the vertical shaft isn't such a big problem. the horizontal ones are - once they hit the surface
16:09 Sokomine    at the time of creation it just isn't really known if at that point the tunnel ought to end, have a bridge and continue on the other side, or become an entrance
16:12 Sokomine    paramat: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/screenshot_20170522_180115-ckt0hnaZ.1495469537.png  does not look well. that is what is to be avoided when having tunnels on the surface
16:16 Fixer       paramat: i need his rebase first, so i can test that chest bug
16:16 paramat     yeah. tunnels can be kept below 'water level', this will stop them coming to the surface
16:17 Sokomine    tunnels i'm satisfied with: http://www.picpaste.com/tunnel1-XxwTPA9Q.jpg  http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel2-FZfU8HcL.1495469757.jpg   full tunnel network: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel3-Ec7aSuJn.1495469782.jpg  or another nice tunnel: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tunnel4-VjdBIg8b.1495469817.jpg
16:17 paramat     Fixer yes, but you could possibly test his old-engine branch with latest MTG, although that's not as reliable a test
16:17 Sokomine    paramat: but "below water" is not what i want
16:19 paramat     shall we move this to hub as is more a mod discussion?
16:19 Fixer       paramat: will wait rebase :)
16:19 paramat     Fixer yes that's best
16:24 twoelk      so any chance of a <massivetestingduringfeaturefreeze> public server?
16:56 Sokomine    paramt: sure. let's talk on -hub
17:15 Krock       Zeno`, well done.
17:27 Zeno`       Krock, see latest comment
17:28 Zeno`       I changed it to specify which ABBA songs are good and which are not
17:28 Krock       nice pretext :P
17:28 Zeno`       it really is though
17:28 Krock       okay
17:30 Zeno`       did you really think the current PR would be approved and merged? :)
17:30 Krock       yes! 100%
17:31 Zeno`       darn
17:31 Zeno`       lol
17:32 VanessaE    man you guys have need a sense-of-humor transplant :)
17:32 Krock       and I need a "/s" transplant for my last message above
17:32 VanessaE    actually I'm talking about the comments in the "PR" :)
17:33 Krock       it's an actual PR, no need to add quotes
17:34 VanessaE    meanwhile, does anyone have any insight into #5799 ?
17:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5799 -- Client timeouts during and after sign-in, after "connecting" phase is over.
17:35 paramat     Fixer #5801 is 5300 rebased
17:35 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat
17:36 paramat     about game#1742 to test i need to know where the deprecation messages appear 'core.log' but i can't see them in terminal or in verbose debug
17:36 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat
17:36 paramat     bemusing
17:36 paramat     ^ ShadowNinja
17:36 Zeno`       For anyone who doesn't understand the real reason for #5800 I'll explain tomorrow in PM to anyone who asks
17:36 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5800 -- Update credits by Zeno-
17:37 Fixer       paramat: okay
17:45 ShadowNinja paramat: See comment.
17:48 nerzhul     paramat, i should one thing. Translating mapgen settings to french is painful
17:48 nerzhul     :p
17:52 nerzhul     paramat, for #5801 please change that
17:52 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat
17:52 nerzhul     the asumption that handleDigging is false when on_punchnode can be false if a node is removed in a future usecase, just do meta = map.getNodeMetadata(nodepos) another time
17:52 nerzhul     to ensure updated meta is get (if modified by CSM, maybe that can happen)
17:52 nerzhul     (not atm but in the future)
17:53 paramat     thanks SN
17:54 paramat     nerzhul thanks but i don't remotely understand this PR, and i see you have issues with it :]
17:54 nerzhul     i simplify it greatly
17:55 nerzhul     remove all diff, change meta = NULL to meta = map.getNodeMetadata(nodepos) and that's all
17:55 nerzhul     :p
17:55 nerzhul     if after we add meta local modifications on CSM it's ready :) or if we alter local meta for a reason
17:56 paramat     hang on, what you suggest is simple, i can code this
17:56 blue-001    well adding support for csm writing to local meta wouldn't be hard
17:56 blue-001    not sure if thats something we want to added through
17:58 blue-001    note: current csm meta is a copy of the meta at the time the referance is created unlike server meta which afaik gets updated if the meta gets updated
17:59 nerzhul     blue-001, for this release it's too late
17:59 nerzhul     we are in feature freeze
17:59 nerzhul     oh !
17:59 nerzhul     paramat,
17:59 nerzhul     better
18:00 nerzhul     drop the whole pr and move meta and the lower condition under the meta=null bloc
18:01 nerzhul     paramat, i'm editing your PR from github, if there are issues with spaces can you fix them locally ?
18:04 nerzhul     rewrote #5801
18:04 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Ensure node metadata is NULL after digging by paramat
18:04 nerzhul     it's now impossible to have wrong meta in this code part :)
18:04 nerzhul     it's read after digging
18:05 Krock       no space issues as far I can see
18:06 nerzhul     yeah :) github should have enhanced this
18:07 nerzhul     this fixed the meta issues properly without adding any vicious bool
18:07 nerzhul     (just amend myself as commit author paramat as i rewrote all :p)
18:10 nerzhul     Fixer, can you test #5801 as i rewrote please ?
18:10 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Read meta after node digging to ensure it is correct by paramat
18:10 Fixer       nerzhul: yes, in 1 hour i will test it
18:14 paramat     nerzhul thanks do take over, i don't know how to proceed if you take over so i'll leave it to you
18:15 paramat     yes make yourself author :]
18:17 paramat     and if good a new commit message of course
18:20 paramat     #5798 is updated as requested and retested
18:20 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat
18:25 nerzhul     "IME Accept" what is that ? many strings contain IME in translations
18:26 sfan5       those are names of keyboard keys
18:27 nerzhul     key I key m and key E ?
18:27 sfan5       no a seperate key
18:27 sfan5       just dont translate it
18:28 nerzhul     IME has no sense on french keyboard
18:28 nerzhul     what key is this ?
18:29 * blue-001  has no idea
18:29 blue-001    the keynames are a bit strange sometimes
18:33 nerzhul     paramat, i squashed #5801
18:33 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5801 -- Read meta after node digging to ensure it is correct by paramat
18:35 sfan5       nerzhul: none, it doesnt exist on french keyboards
18:51 paramat     ok
19:15 nerzhul     sfan5, oh, and what is the interest on other keyboards ?
19:15 sfan5       it's used by the IME like i said
19:16 nerzhul     what is IME ?
19:17 sfan5       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method
19:40 paramat     feel free to merge #5798 and/or game#1742 i'm too tired to do so tonight
19:40 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5798 -- Mgv6 mudflow: Remove decoration if 'dirt with grass' below flows away by paramat
19:40 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1742 -- Settings: Use new settings object by paramat
20:15 nerzhul     Fixer, did you tested ?
20:15 Fixer       nerzhul: yes, i've tried dozen of times, no luck crashing it
20:16 Fixer       nerzhul: wait a sec
20:17 Fixer       nerzhul: no crash, but i managed to put the side by its side and it does not have its inventory
20:17 nerzhul     no crash because it's fixed heh
20:17 Fixer       yes
20:17 nerzhul     meta is called after dig, cannot crash :)
20:17 Fixer       somehow managed to place it by its side
20:18 Fixer       when opening it https://i.imgur.com/19P8igC.png
20:18 Fixer       view of chest https://i.imgur.com/wFwoS3F.png
20:18 VanessaE    Fixer: I had that happen too
20:18 VanessaE    just fyi
20:18 VanessaE    wasn't sure why