Time  Nick        Message
00:02 Hijiri      paramat: the issues/PRs you removed from the milestone are still in the project, is that intended?
00:04 paramat     erm
00:05 paramat     they will of course still be worked on, but there's only 11 days to freeze
00:05 paramat     i closed 10 that obviously should not be in the milestone
00:07 paramat     .. at this point. it was fine to add them earlier through optimism
00:46 Hijiri      paramat: I meant project as in the project feature of github
00:46 Hijiri      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/projects/2
00:48 paramat     i see
00:49 paramat     i sort of can't be bothered with that kanban board thing, it's a nerzhul thing, seems unnecessary to me :]
01:07 paramat     Zeno` thanks for your message
05:07 Zeno`       I think that maintenance is normally something that doesn't change how something behaves. Therefore removing maintenance tag from #5744
05:07 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5744 -- Caverns: Remove unnecessary liquid excavation by paramat
05:34 nerzhul     Zeno`, except arrlen #5719 is okay for you ?
05:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001
05:35 nerzhul     (i fixed it myself)
05:39 Zeno`       yeah, but I'd rather the ARRLEN there so if someone changes the length of the array they don't have to remember to change the snprintf() as well
05:42 lisac       #5743
05:42 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5743 -- Fix instant dig bug #5728 by lisacvuk
05:42 lisac       Hi everyone
05:50 Zeno`       hi
05:50 Zeno`       nerzhul, yep I'm ok with it now
05:50 nerzhul     nice :)
05:50 nerzhul     hi
05:50 nerzhul     merging in ~30mins then
08:02 lisac       Hi kilbith
08:03 kilbith     hey
08:26 lisac       Hi nerzhul
08:26 nerzhul     oh forgot to merge #5719 this morning, i will merge it in ~10 mins
08:26 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001
08:39 nerzhul     merged
08:39 nerzhul     ty red-002
10:03 nerzhul     guys, we really need #5554 for release, a second approval is required
10:03 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5554 -- [CSM] Allow enabling and disabling mods. by red-001
11:57 lisac       nerzhul, What does 'Blocker' tag stand for?
12:03 VanessaE    lisac: in most projects, "blocker" means that the issue in question must be solved before next planned release of the project.
12:03 VanessaE    the issue is literally "blocking" the devs from considering a release (or it would, if it isn't solved by the projected release date)
12:04 kilbith     I have a gross analogy with the toilet in mind but I'll abstain
12:08 VanessaE    heh
12:11 lisac       VanessaE, Thanks :D
12:11 VanessaE    yw
14:59 Fixer       who come up with this "Minetest Game" was intended to be simple? (maybe i forgot) I thought that was result of lack of development and will so it became so stagnant for years so that "simplicity" was accepted as norm because it is that much fucked up and you can't do much about it
15:18 red-002     Fixer it's a feature not a bug?
15:24 Fixer       red-002: rails without carts for almost 6 years - bug or feature?
15:25 red-002     feature since carts are more memory and cpu expensive then just tracks, duh
15:26 Fixer       red-002: remove minetest_game, even less memory/cpu used
15:26 red-002     huh good point
15:28 red-002     done http://i.imgur.com/7aA6CBe.png
15:30 nore        Fixer: that was the opinion like 3 years ago, I should edit it out of game#515 probably
15:30 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 -- [Discussion] Development direction
15:47 twoelk      red-002: there once was a gameless session on VanessaE's survival server. Connecting was fast and the world full of unknown content
17:00 DS-minetest why don't have chests an extra file? furnace has
17:01 red-003     ad hoc?
17:11 Fixer       modularise default
17:11 Fixer       if possible
17:15 kaeza       anybody knows offhand where the default player collision box is?
17:17 sofar       builtin in the code?
17:19 kaeza       nvm, found it
17:19 kaeza       I guess this is it? >m_collisionbox(-BS * 0.30, 0.0, -BS * 0.30, BS * 0.30, BS * 1.75, BS * 0.30),
17:23 sofar       that doesn't make any sense
17:24 sofar       oh, well, collision box ~= selection box
17:24 sofar       so yeah, maybe
18:29 kilbith     it looks like the middle mouse key ain't get-able from `get_player_control()`
18:30 kilbith     while irrlicht supports it: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/structirr_1_1_s_event_1_1_s_mouse_input.html#a1a93f70157bfad1c15ae2a7c10745432
18:32 sofar       there's plenty more valid buttons that are missed, but yes, middle is missing
18:35 kilbith     some of our users want the middle-click to get the pointed node in their inventory, but not destructing it
18:37 paramat     kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/content_sao.cpp#L801
18:38 rubenwardy  related: #2730 #4211
18:38 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2730 -- Pick node by middle click
18:38 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4211 -- Being able to use middle Mouse button (button 3 aka scroll wheel) for controls
18:38 kaeza       paramat, thanks
18:39 kaeza       but the line I posted is enough for my purposes
18:45 paramat     Fixer "... lack of development and will so it became so stagnant for years ..." see rate of commits in the last 2 years https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors half my time has been spent on it
18:46 Fixer       paramat: yeah, but still 2012-2014 was pretty stagnant
18:47 Fixer       2016-2017 looks much more active
18:48 paramat     yes it was neglected earlier
18:52 Fixer       MTG question, I can rotate default:wood but not default:cobble, what is the reason to not rotate cobble with screwdriver?
18:53 Raven262    Cause it has same texture from all sides?
18:53 Raven262    No one thought that rotating it would actually make it look different, thought it would
18:53 Raven262    Is this a bug then?
18:53 Fixer       hard to say
18:53 paramat     intentional
18:53 Raven262    really?
18:54 paramat     because it has been considered as looking the same in every rotation, although that's not exactly true
18:55 Raven262    Why couldn't all "ordinary" nodes be rotated then?
18:55 paramat     but generally considering all texture packs, it's usually a random mess of stones
18:56 Raven262    I'm not sure if it would have any purpose in rotating it anyway
18:56 paramat     param2 can be useful for other purposes so it's only reserved for rotation if needed
18:56 Raven262    Ah, yes, didn't think of that
18:57 Raven262    btw, will minetest get any coloured lightning at all?
18:57 paramat     wood planks only became rotatable a year ago or so
18:58 paramat     coloured light is a huge job, with changes to map format
18:59 Raven262    Well, is it in plan, if there is some plan anyway
19:00 Raven262    Since i have seen coloured text being added
19:00 Raven262    Was that less of a job?
19:00 paramat     not really planned. coloured text is vastly easier there's no comparison
19:00 Raven262    Ah.
19:02 Raven262    Well, there is one thing i would like to ask core devs.
19:02 twoelk      never knowing what a texture pack may be up to I would consider all blocks, slabs, stairs and walls of mtg should be rotatable
19:02 Raven262    I noticed suspiciously large number of clients with the name consisting of a name starting with a capital letter + random 2 or 3 digit number.
19:03 Raven262    On a single server i have been following in irc last few months (and earlier possibly)
19:03 twoelk      some new multicraft clone?
19:03 Raven262    The minetest's copies are getting out of hand, a bit
19:04 Raven262    People are joining from copies much more than from original minetest.
19:04 Raven262    It is an insane amount of clients
19:04 Raven262    one in every 10 minutes or so here
19:05 Raven262    just joins, waits for a few moments, then leaves
19:07 Raven262    Though one can ask a player what game is he playing, and he will respond with the name of the copy.
19:07 Raven262    And copies are a bit outdated too, some minetest features crash them
19:08 Raven262    which is nice, just tell a player to open a craft guide and see if it crashes him xD
19:09 twoelk      http://i.imgur.com/3ZXqqq7.png rotated cobble :-D
19:09 Raven262    :O
19:10 Fixer       https://i.imgur.com/4AGRLxx.png monitoring particle use on server
19:11 Fixer       most of the time it is below 20
19:13 paramat     would be good to be able to filter clients to only official MT clients
19:14 Raven262    But, then copies could steal that part of the code too :P
19:15 twoelk      there had been discussions like that before
19:16 Raven262    How would server know if the client is minetest, not a copy?
19:16 Raven262    Maybe ask for version?
19:17 nerzhul     paramat, it's very very difficult to filter because we don't have any idea about this
19:17 paramat     ok
19:19 twoelk      also such a feature could be missused and clones usually have enough interest to quickly hack around any signiture or whatever
19:19 paramat     #5744
19:19 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5744 -- Caverns: Remove unnecessary liquid excavation by paramat
19:21 nerzhul     it's easy to spoof data :)
19:21 nerzhul     like the current random player names to bypass guest ban
19:21 red-003     well I guess it's a bit better then guest names?
19:22 Raven262    Better? Now we don't enev know which name is randomly generated and which is not? xD
19:22 Raven262    *even
19:23 red-003     could you post an example of some of the names?
19:24 Raven262    Krutsch380 Delrosario398 Kenady973 Babula777 Diesel234 Milledge562 Largent249 Hugghins283 Sandahl227 Gloeckner506 Brightharp319 Terhark486
19:25 Raven262    brought to you from craig's server
19:25 Raven262    I have no idea on how could one generate such different names.
19:26 nerzhul     just have a list, add random number, finished
19:26 Raven262    list?
19:26 Raven262    that is one great job to get this many names
19:26 Raven262    There are hundreds of them, about 15 new every day
19:26 red-003     considering the quality of these clients there is probalay an giant array of names somewhere in the code
19:26 Raven262    lol
19:27 Raven262    somebody is actually doing it
19:28 Raven262    Well, you could ban clients from using a name that fits these parameters, Capital letter at the begining, 3 digits at the end
19:29 Raven262    this would stop them for some time xD
19:29 * Raven262  is afk.
19:30 nerzhul     Raven262, then i can ban you now ?
19:30 Fixer       why would you ban those names?
19:30 Fixer       it is certainly better than Saddie666
19:31 Fixer       ... and guest
19:31 Raven262    Yeah, right
19:31 Raven262    Bad idea
19:32 Raven262    And, we knew sadies and guests were nameless
19:32 Raven262    we don't know if someone is using an illegal client or not according to these new names
19:33 red-003     someone should reverse engineer one of these clients and check how long the name list is
19:33 Raven262    Sadies and Guests were better imo then
19:34 Raven262    Lets see if i can get to know some client names
19:36 Hijiri      may or may not be actually illegal
19:36 Hijiri      even if it's not an official client
19:37 Fixer       i'm fine with those, why whould you ban them? just because of name? it is better than 666cutedogcapcake666
19:37 Raven262    Hmmm
19:37 Raven262    Yes, you are right
19:38 Hijiri      Maybe if the name matches a particular pattern show the player a notice that they may be using an unofficial client
19:38 Hijiri      and only on the first time they log on, otherwise it's annoying
19:39 Raven262    Yes, we need those names
19:39 red-003     some many of these apps don't link to their real source code
19:39 red-003     so*
19:39 red-003     not some
19:40 Hijiri      nobody has made a DMCA against them?
19:40 Hijiri      DMCA takedown request I mean
19:40 red-003     too much effort to dmca all of them
19:40 kilbith     nerzhul once a time ago
19:40 Hijiri      (though congress made the DMCA against them)
19:41 Calinou     yeah, we need to ban all usernames ending with 3 numbers I gues :(
19:41 Calinou     guess*
19:42 Calinou     there probably is a list somewhere in the APK
19:42 Calinou     if someone can get it in plain text, jackpot
19:42 Raven262    If someone could get to know which app are we looking for
19:42 Hijiri      they'll just create some other random name scheme
19:42 red-003     Calinou, I remeber once opening one of these in a deassmbler and I'm pretty sure the list was embedded in the binary
19:42 red-003     disassmbler*
19:42 Hijiri      showing a notice is less likely to cause enough complaints for them to switch it up
19:43 Calinou     this is whack-a-mole anyway
19:43 Calinou     we have to do it, this is getting out of hand
19:43 red-003     that was a while ago through
19:43 Raven262    Maybe they are overhearing this as we speak.
19:43 Calinou     heh
19:43 red-003     and I don't remeber which app this was
19:43 Raven262    How does one get this minetest clone?
19:44 Calinou     Google Play I guess
19:44 Hijiri      there are multiple
19:44 Calinou     aka. Hell on Earth
19:44 red-003     ^
19:44 Raven262    so google play then?
19:45 nerzhul     for the DCMA, only unlegit fork can be nuked (no source providen an no reference to MT)
19:45 twoelk      what is the most recent data on OS usage with minetest? how high is the android share on servers now?
19:45 red-003     apple app store encrypts the binary so you are out of luck if it's not in plain text somewhere
19:45 red-003     ~90%
19:45 nerzhul     the only real way to fight against them is to change the license, but i don't think we will ever do it, to use GPLv3 + CC by NC SA for textures etc
19:45 Raven262    Guys, there are just so many copies
19:46 red-003     we know
19:46 Raven262    What is needed for a license change?
19:47 nerzhul     signature of all contributor since MT birth :p
19:48 twoelk      Raven262: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16020 <-- add any new info here
19:50 Raven262    signature?
19:50 Raven262    Are you all just hiding your identities?
19:51 Raven262    twoelk, well this is quite a list already.
19:51 twoelk      probably not complete
19:52 Raven262    But, why people play clones rather than the original game anyway?
19:52 Fixer       wait a second... are particles on dig are rendered for _everybody_ ?
19:54 Calinou     please no CC BY-NC-SA
19:54 Calinou     it's the root of all evil
19:54 Calinou     (someone could replace all textures if they wanted, too…)
19:54 Calinou     so this won't even solve your problem
19:54 Calinou     there are plenty of freely-licensed texture packs out there
19:54 Calinou     Fixer: nope, only yourself
19:54 sofar       perhaps move this discussion to -hub?
19:55 twoelk      most clones are availiable at places players look for new games and some are maybe easier to install
19:56 nerzhul     a good way to have players can be to distribute on steam, there is more control than play store, but it's not easy to distribute on steam and have some costs
19:57 Raven262    So, is minetest going to be added to steam?
19:57 Raven262    Are there any against it?
19:57 twoelk      do you volanteer?  ;-P
19:58 Raven262    lol
20:04 Raven262    adding a game on steam requires money, right?
20:04 Raven262    Now, how do we get money?
20:04 Raven262    Donations should do
20:04 Raven262    I mean it is not that expensive, right?
20:09 * Raven262  is away
20:12 nerzhul     Raven262, no time for this, we have a release to manage, please talk about this on minetest-hub
20:13 twoelk      http://i.imgur.com/bnlnN3s.png 3digit names at spawn on JT2 right now
20:16 sofar       move it to -hub please
21:17 nerzhul     guys, just a question, why we use u32, u8 etc, instead of cstdint types ? uint8_t, int64_t etc ? (which is standard) ? It's only due to irrlicht stupidity ?
21:17 nerzhul     celeron55, ^?
21:17 rubenwardy  nicer
21:17 rubenwardy  do you really want to type uint32_t everytime?
21:18 celeron55   if i started minetest now, i'd even alias std::string as ss_ or something
21:18 rubenwardy  lol
21:18 sfan5       s::s
21:18 celeron55   that's what i do in new C++ projects
21:18 sfan5       does c++ even allow tht
21:18 sfan5       i wonder
21:18 nerzhul     except the character typing speedup (which is a non sense, just use an IDE on a such project) it's standard :p
21:19 rubenwardy  it's ugly and less readable
21:19 nerzhul     celeron55, on private C++ projects maybe but for opensource it's not good to have such unreadable variable (ss_ :p)
21:20 celeron55   well, i just don't agree with common C++ practices generally either
21:20 celeron55   so don't ask me if you want common practices
21:20 nerzhul     especially for external contribution, for the u8/u32 it's understandable, i just mean, why this choice
21:20 nerzhul     just to keep some disk space to run on window 3.1 and OS hard disk drives ? :p
21:20 nerzhul     or zx spectrum ^^
21:21 celeron55   i don't see why it's so bad to shorten common things
21:21 celeron55   i think humans generally like to do that
21:21 nerzhul     for std::unordered_map<std::string, std::string> yeah :D StringMap is quite good ^^
21:22 nerzhul     but uint8_t vs u8 :)
21:23 celeron55   if you can't call it C++, then call it Minetest C++
21:23 nerzhul     :o
21:23 Fixer       https://i.imgur.com/U0TI360.png
21:31 Fixer       https://i.imgur.com/OC7Fc0A.png
21:32 Calinou     the latter might just be an altitude graph of the French Alps
21:32 Calinou     who knows