Time  Nick        Message
01:05 rubenwardy  merging game#1713 in 5 mins...
01:05 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1713 -- Fix owner not being checked on write to book by rubenwardy
01:07 paramat     thanks
01:27 rubenwardy  forgot, merged now
02:08 sofar       paramat: squash it, bop it, merge it (#4525)
02:08 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4525 -- Startup boilerplate: fix line breaks by HybridDog
02:17 rubenwardy  shouldn't it be cerr not cout? Although it doesn't matter much
02:20 sofar       errorstream?
02:27 paramat     nice, the wrapping ASCII bothers me in terminal
02:33 paramat     typically sloppy PR though
02:40 paramat     +1 for #3497
02:40 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3497 -- Allow mesh and nodeboxes to wave like plants or leaves. by sofar
03:11 VanessaE    all right G*d damn it, I just had to wipe out a 6GB debug log (and others in 1+ GB range), just one day's worth of log....  and a 136 GB rollback log.
03:11 VanessaE    will someone PLEASE fix the fucking ghost entities bug and add a way to let a mod NOT record to the rollback log?!?
03:13 VanessaE    (the former floods the debug log, the latter floods both logs)
03:16 VanessaE    rollback is getting so unwieldy now that I'm going to be forced to disable it soon, on the servers that need it the most
03:16 VanessaE    and yes, I meant GB, not MB.
03:16 paramat     is there an issue for the mod rollback recording request?
03:17 * sofar     ashamed to admit he couldn't even get rollback to work the last time he tried
03:19 sofar       paramat: mind if I push a change to remove the conflicting dye color change to minetest_game?
03:19 sofar       silly to make a PR and push 500 keys
03:19 sofar       https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/dye/init.lua#L84
03:19 sofar       remove that line
03:20 Calinou     rollback didn't catch obvious griefing, last time I tried it, it also slowed down the server to a crawl
03:23 sofar       paramat: I'll push a change in a bit
03:24 VanessaE    Calinou: it's caught greifers on my servers many times, but because of that insane size, I can't use /rollback <user> <time> to auto-repair the grief, because THAT will usually hang the server for ages.
03:24 VanessaE    (minutes, even an hour in one case)
03:26 paramat     a dye PR is fine +1
03:26 paramat     i mean, a commit
03:27 sofar       ae7206c
03:27 paramat     thanks for that
03:28 sofar       we've got 3 more weeks where we should be a bit more aggressive merging easy changes and not forgetting them
03:28 garywhite   VanessaE: What you may want to do is make a script that flushes those files every day at shutdown, at least till they can fix the issues
03:28 VanessaE    garywhite: the debug logs are rotated out nightly.
03:28 VanessaE    and rollback is trimmed to only the last month's worth of events
03:29 VanessaE    yeah, that's right - 136 GB of events in a month
03:29 paramat     :O
03:29 VanessaE    (the rollback trim takes place either nightly or weekly, I forget which I set it for)
03:30 VanessaE    paramat: it's because there's no way for a mod to exclude some events (think nodebreakers, deployers, certain technic machines) from the rollback log.
03:31 VanessaE    so you've got some random machine, say a leaves-to-sapling reprocessor, that places a leaves block, waits a bit (a fraction of a second), and then digs it to try to get the sapling out of it, or recycles the dug leaves back to the input to try again at a later cycle
03:32 VanessaE    now expand that to industrial-scale machines that might do say 30 or 40 of those each cycle, two cycles per second
03:33 VanessaE    each cycle spams the debug log with "so-and-so placed foo:leaves" and "so-and-so dug foo:leaves", and equivalent events in the rollback log
03:33 VanessaE    such things do NOT need to be logged, at least to rollback.
03:41 paramat     indeed
03:41 VanessaE    also that same machine would have "so-and-so takes foo:stuff from chest" for every cycle
03:42 VanessaE    (because it would usually involve a "filter-injector" device, which removes an item from its neighboring chest and routes it into a tube)
03:44 VanessaE    the most API-friendly way I can think to do this might be an API call one could put ahead of the event that shouldn't be logged, and a similar call to put after it
03:44 VanessaE    that way you don't have to modify the actual call being logged
03:44 VanessaE    (at least at the Lua level)
03:45 VanessaE    then literally anything that sends an event to rollback can be excluded.
03:51 sofar       VanessaE: what you want is some sql based logging method
03:51 VanessaE    sofar: no (and anyway rollback *is* sql)
03:52 VanessaE    minetest.disable_rollback_logging()  minetest.set_node(pos, {name="foo:stuff"})  minetest.enable_rollback_logging()
03:52 VanessaE    something like that.
03:52 VanessaE    well not set_node but rather, place_node.
03:52 VanessaE    (or both, I forget which one goes to the rollback log)
04:35 bkeys       I am trying to print out the JSON the minetest client sends to the master server
04:35 bkeys       I am in serverlist.cpp and the function in question seems to be sendAnnounce
04:37 sofar       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYWQcZovMaY
04:37 sofar       nore: ^^
04:39 sofar       bkeys: what are you attempting to do?
04:39 bkeys       Print out the JSON for hwen the server does a POST
04:40 sofar       why are you doing that?
04:40 nore        sofar: nice
04:40 bkeys       I want to see if I can self host a master server and use it for my non minetest game
04:40 sofar       you know the master server code is open source
04:41 bkeys       yes and I have it running on my pi
04:41 nore        did you try with plain skybox and sky color going from blue to grey, while clouds color go from white to dark grey as well?
04:41 bkeys       What I am trying to do now is see how the minetest server announces itself so I can try to replicate it
04:41 sofar       nore: only thing I did was hack the client to not disable clouds (the color tints are from the skybox mod I think)
04:41 bkeys       Hence I need to see the JSON it POST's so I can do the same
04:42 nore        yeah, I know, I mean, you can do that just to see what the effect looks like :)
04:42 nore        (so, using "plain" skyboxes instead of textures)
04:42 sofar       dunno
04:42 sofar       I literally want to kill the "clouds are visible in skybox 'plain' only mode"
04:43 sofar       that's the only thing I'm looking to do now
04:43 nore        anyway now that we have that cloud API we can kill that indeed
04:43 sofar       just set density to 0.0 and it should be off
04:43 nore        I don't know how much backwards compat we want though
04:43 sofar       that's already a toggle
04:43 nore        ^ yeah, that works
04:43 sofar       no need to even set much
04:43 sofar       old clients just have clouds, period
04:44 sofar       I can't understand how it gets toggled though, lmao
04:45 sofar       clouds get turned off if you're deep inside caves, sure
04:45 sofar       but I literally don't see where clouds get disabled when you enable a skybox
04:45 sofar       it's like I'm making a zero-line patch to do what I want
04:45 sofar       this does not compute
04:46 sofar       here's my diff so far:
04:46 sofar       https://gist.github.com/sofar/d5536194976103c4e5a8119597420028
04:46 sofar       that's it
04:47 nore        hmm
04:47 bkeys       sofar: I got the log being serialized with the JSON lib; how do I print something to the console?
04:47 nore        makes me think there's another change we probably want to do for the cloud colors
04:47 sofar       bkeys: errorstream<< etc
04:47 nore        which is use a texture for time of day -> color mapping
04:48 nore        instead of the current hardcoded function for default sky and always the same color otherwise
04:53 sofar       http://i.imgur.com/3fNlcFo.jpg
04:53 bkeys       sofar: I have libcurl in the build and everything but sendAnnounce is not working
04:53 sofar       from minetest?
04:55 paramat     clouds are not visible with a plain skybox
04:55 sofar       paramat: seen my latest video?
04:56 sofar       nore: for other stuff like moon/sun we need to do a major overhaul, but this is trivial
04:57 sofar       the color for the clouds seems to get applied from the skybox colors properly
04:57 paramat     yeah seen the video, just the sort of work we need
04:57 sofar       since it takes the fog colors I think
04:57 nore        sofar: interesting
04:57 sofar       all I did was remove an arbitrary restriction
04:58 bkeys       Got the JSON c:
04:59 nore        sun/moon need an API I think, and probably an API for arbitrary stellar objects would be good
04:59 sofar       including ordering :)
04:59 nore        shouldn't be too difficult either, just need to code it...
04:59 sofar       so we can have eclipses
04:59 nore        oooh :)
04:59 sofar       precession
05:00 sofar       inclination/obliquenes
05:00 paramat     celeron55 coded 'set sky', might be interested in developing that
05:00 sofar       elliptic
05:00 sofar       so size of objects vary
05:00 sofar       nore: right after we finish itb
05:01 nore        hmmm I was mainly thinking about circular orbits over which you have control, but if we can give 3d positions and some way to control the trajectory it would be nice
05:01 nore        sofar: yeah, I just thought about making a magic mod where the position of the planets & stuff matters
05:02 nore        maybe it would be an interesting system for a subgame (or even the next generation mtg?)
09:17 Fixer       VanessaE: so with nearly empty servers you get 140gb of rollback? That is insane
09:19 VanessaE    Fixer: that's what happens when you have an old server with lots of user-built machines that are still operating
09:19 VanessaE    (also, that server gets a bit more than "empty" activity these days, though it could be better)
09:33 nerzhul     merging #5660 in ~10 min
09:33 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5660 -- Fix incorrect formspec-tooltip doc, add detail in 'floodable' & 'on_flood' docs by BluebirdGreycoat
09:35 nerzhul     also #5649
09:35 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5649 -- Allow scripts to get the client protocol version in non-debug builds. by red-001
09:50 nerzhul     sofar, are you okay too with #5657 ?
09:51 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5657 -- Search user path for sounds by desttinghim
09:51 nerzhul     i will push the following trivial diff to ensure we never copy Scripting objects in ~10-15 min
09:51 nerzhul     https://pastebin.com/ZSUriwht
10:13 nerzhul     done
12:00 nerzhul     oh Zeno` didn't notified about a merge :p
12:00 nerzhul     168 opened pr; does mt needs so many PR ? :p
12:05 Zeno``      silly Zeno`
12:05 Zeno``      (he actually did but didn't realise he was not connected LMAO)
12:08 kilbith     you get too old, that's why
12:12 Zeno``      kilbith, that's why I don't think we should use C++11 for the engine... better to stick with Pascal
12:13 Zeno``      Maybe next release we can port to Modula-2 though... not quite sure yet though, it's a pretty new language
12:13 kilbith     I thought you were sticking with the punched cards already
12:43 Fixer       sticking to real rocks and sticks
14:38 CalebDavis  i am wondering is there a way to hide the "<player> is connecting" messages in a server
14:56 kilbith     2017-04-27 16:55:57: WARNING[Main]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found
14:56 kilbith     2017-04-27 16:55:57: WARNING[Main]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found
15:21 ShadowNinja About adding better screenshots to the website (https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io/issues/78).  Good pactures are quite subjective and we'll never do anything if everyone continues adding their own pictures, so I think we should just assign someone (Calinou perhaps?) to decide on some images and add them.
15:39 celeron55   i agree with wuzzy's points there
15:39 celeron55   it's too easy to fall into the trap of just showing off the map generator
15:39 celeron55   there could even be screenshots of a mod being edited
15:42 celeron55   and the wiki basically already has all the screenshots needed
15:43 celeron55   (http://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest)
15:52 sofar       I can make some blender screenshots showing model creation
17:38 Krock       !tell paramat FYI: Non-member approvals aren't shown as "Approved" in the PR list. Example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5622
17:38 ShadowBot   Krock: O.K.
17:52 Calinou     ShadowNinja: I'm not sure if I'll really pick any images from that thread
17:53 Calinou     most of them just scream "I installed 150 mods and I'm happy with it looking utterly inconsistent and ugly"
17:58 est31       <CuteAlien> Also for fun - Irrlicht's emscripten port starting to take form: http://www.irrgheist.com/emscripten/examples/emscripten_testing.html
17:58 est31       on #emscripten , mozilla IRC
17:59 sfan5       why are they porting to emscripten now
17:59 est31       might be an interesting project for minetest.
17:59 sfan5       and not wasm?
17:59 est31       emscripten can also target wasm
17:59 Krock       sweet.
18:00 est31       emscripten is the SDK created by mozilla, originally for asm.js but now also for wasm
18:00 sfan5       oh
18:00 est31       not sure though how much of it will be relevant once the llvm/clang wasm backend takes off.
18:00 est31       I think you need sort of a runtime as well, which is what emscripten provides
18:01 sfan5       you do
18:01 kilbith     glad to see there est31
18:02 est31       just wanted to share this, maybe minetest can get a web browser demo on the web page like terasology has
18:02 Calinou     Terasology's uses a Java applet though :P
18:02 Calinou     also, Minetest on the Web platform is going to be lots of work
18:02 Calinou     1) we need to have non-buggy OpenGL ES 2
18:02 est31       yeah, and java is going to be geprecated haha
18:02 Calinou     2) filesystem access (for local worlds)
18:02 Calinou     3) don't even think about multiplayer
18:03 Calinou     performance will likely be lackluster, it's not like native Minetest is too fast already
18:03 sfan5       Calinou: WebRTC :^)
18:03 est31       yeah, performance will be worse, not better
18:03 sfan5       i heard it's huge trouble to set up though
18:03 est31       yeah
18:04 Calinou     sfan5: do we have the manpower to rewrite the network protocol?
18:04 sfan5       we don't
18:04 sfan5       need to
18:04 est31       there was a proposal somewhere for a protocol that is less overhead though
18:04 sfan5       sctp
18:04 sfan5       we're not doing that
18:04 est31       but until it arrives in browsers, it takes some time
18:04 sfan5       oh you didn't mean that
18:04 Calinou     I heard WebRTC uses SCTP internally
18:05 est31       sfan5: yeah, I'm searching for a link atm
18:07 est31       meh no idea
18:08 est31       gtg
18:20 est31       ah yes
18:20 est31       http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_cant_i_send_udp_packets_from_a_browser/
18:20 est31       https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io
18:20 est31       but at this stage its useles, as its not implemented by browsers
18:20 est31       best bet now is WebRTC
18:20 est31       i think the biggest problem will be the missing pthreads support for wasm
18:21 est31       minetest has various threads talking to each other. not possible with wasm amt
18:21 est31       atm*
18:34 twoelk      Java applet in a browser? aren't they sort of blocking that in current browser releases?
18:55 kilbith     someone to close this shit please: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5670
19:01 Fixer       hi est31
19:21 paramat     not sure if 5670 is helpful, it's sort of obvious it's a silly name and might just be lengthy debate with nothing done :]
19:22 VanessaE    we've been down that road at least a couple of times already
19:22 paramat     perhaps best kept to the forum
19:22 VanessaE    and like you said, a fruitless discussion, close it.
19:23 red-001     close it
19:24 red-001     it can be reopened if some sort of conclusion is reached on the forums
19:24 paramat     added my comment
19:29 paramat     difficult to choose too, any name most will dislike. if we renamed i would just let c55 choose and save huge amounts of suggestions and discussion, it's bound to be an improvement
19:30 VanessaE    there was a poll a long time ago about this
19:30 VanessaE    http://www.strawpoll.me/32807
19:31 paramat     ugh
19:31 VanessaE    ?
19:32 sfan5       someone posted "Poll: Should we rename Minetest? (forum.minetest.net)" to /r/linux
19:32 sfan5       lel
19:32 VanessaE    ohh brother.
19:32 paramat     not sure any of those in the strawpoll are better :]
19:33 paramat     only the last option makes sense
19:34 VanessaE    that's the "CowboyNeal" option.
19:34 VanessaE    (see also, Slashdot)
19:35 rubenwardy  I agree that issue is pointles
19:35 rubenwardy  and isn't really linked to development
19:35 rubenwardy  I like MT Voxel Engine, as it's not a full rename as such
19:35 Fixer       minetest is silly, i hope most of people will agree with that
19:35 Fixer       rubenwardy: too long
19:35 VanessaE    for the sake of disclosure, I opened that poll years ago when the subject first came up (with any serious discussion that is)
19:36 paramat     i have an aversion to names that are overly FOSSy
19:36 Fixer       it needs to be pretty short, yet nice
19:36 nerzhul     closed
19:36 Fixer       please no this minetest or qtpfsgui or mt voxel engine insanity
19:36 nerzhul     yetanothervoxelenginewhichroxx
19:36 nerzhul     YAVLWR for intimates
19:37 VanessaE    heh
19:37 kilbith     the hipsters will love it
19:37 kilbith     like Calinou
19:37 Fixer       YAVLWR.io
19:38 Fixer       The OpenMine Engine/TOME, there is already game called TOME
19:38 Fixer       both freemine is out
19:39 nerzhul     to answer sfan5 and est31, webrtc is not the best choice, websocket is a better choice :p
19:39 paramat     i love the idea of FOS software but dislike the militant eliteism
19:39 Fixer       Voxel is a bit geeky word
19:39 Fixer       OpenCube
19:39 rubenwardy  discussions with people usually go: "Oh, it's a voxel game engine that allows you to make any blocky game you like"
19:39 rubenwardy  "what's it called?"
19:39 rubenwardy  "Minetest"
19:39 rubenwardy  "ohh..." frown
19:40 Fixer       rubenwardy: test.........
19:40 nerzhul     it's celeron55 fault :p
19:40 rubenwardy  exactly, "test"
19:40 Fixer       STOP TESTING
19:40 Fixer       it is an engine, not related to testing
19:40 Fixer       of any sort
19:40 paramat     Meyencandy :]
19:40 Fixer       people will think it is some kind of debugging of whatever
19:40 VanessaE    celeron55 should have kept the "mesetint" name :)
19:41 Fixer       what is mesetint?
19:42 rubenwardy  Our name could be worse
19:42 VanessaE    the project was named that for a brief period, early in the 0.4.x series I think it was
19:42 * twoelk    wonders why Fixer keeps making all those tests if minetest is not related to testing
19:42 VanessaE    but it was more an internal name than world-facing
19:43 rubenwardy  VanessaE, I joined when 0.3.1 was the latest, and 0.4 was only previews, and I don't remember it being called that - so maybe it was longer ago
19:43 rubenwardy  unless it was internal fully
19:44 Fixer       just name it OpenCube :}
19:44 VanessaE    in any case yes a new name is needed, has been for years, but there are more important issues than its name.
19:45 rubenwardy  like our crappy looking unresponsive formspecs
19:46 Calinou     minetest_game was called Mesetint for a month or so
19:46 nerzhul     just finish the 0.4.X cycle and we can talk about things and break
19:46 Calinou     like, in March 2012
19:46 Calinou     after the engine-game split
19:46 nerzhul     just a note, if we rename artifact on android, users won't be notified, it will be a new app
19:47 rubenwardy  erm
19:47 rubenwardy  you can't rename the namespace, yes, but you can rename the app
19:47 VanessaE    rubenwardy: there are more important issues than formspecs :P
19:47 Thomas-S    Fixer, actually OpenCube sounds good to me, but I think its abbreviation "OC" may lead to confusions. This abbreviation is already used for a well-known person of the Minetest community.
19:47 Fixer       z-sorting
19:47 nerzhul     rubenwardy doesn't want us to merge formspec PR :p
19:48 VanessaE    and you can easily rename the namespace as long as you have an alias to the old one.
19:48 kilbith     VanessaE: because you don't mess often with that
19:48 rubenwardy  VanessaE: not android namespaces
19:48 Fixer       Thomas-S: should not a problem at all
19:48 VanessaE    rubenwardy: well you say "namespace" I think modding
19:48 rubenwardy  I was responding to nerzhul :)
19:49 VanessaE    oh that, didn't see it.
19:49 VanessaE    kilbith: every time I play I see formspecs in one way or another...  yes they're ugly, but at least the're functional
19:50 kilbith     they're not just ugly, irrlicht 2d tools lack plenty of useful methods
19:50 kilbith     and it's a PITA to manipulate the irrlicht 2D components on eg. Android
19:51 rubenwardy  the irrlicht people themselves even said you should use another GUI library
19:51 kilbith     that's not its primary job
19:51 rubenwardy  exactly
19:51 VanessaE    there are still more important things to do than to mess with formspecs.
19:51 rubenwardy  they focus on being a 3d rendering engine, the GUI is just bonus
19:52 nerzhul     just design GUI using mapblocks :p
19:52 kilbith     in the educational world, the GUI area matters a lot
19:52 rubenwardy  For me the biggest issue are the formspecs, I don't get stuttering and whilst I'd like better performance/view range it's usable. I don't play multiplayer so I don't many of the big bugs
19:52 nerzhul     not only, ergonomy is part of every good products
19:54 celeron55   you can throw name suggestions at me; i haven't completely thrown away the notion of changing the name
19:55 kilbith     btw, am I the only one to receive some hatred PMs every morning now?
19:56 rubenwardy  from whom?
19:56 celeron55   one thing i've thought about is publishing minetest under many names, at the same time
19:56 kilbith     looks like OldDick
19:56 rubenwardy  red-001,
19:56 * Fixer     throws OpenCube at celeron55
19:56 VanessaE    kilbith: offtopic for here, and no you aren't the only one.
19:57 celeron55   opencube is like a million things already
19:57 paramat     nerzhul please could you address the line comment in the clouds.api PR so the author can finish it? #4524
19:57 VanessaE    celeron55: OpenMiner sounds good to me.
19:57 kilbith     don't care whether it's offtopic
19:57 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4524 -- Clouds api by bendeutsch
19:57 celeron55   probably many companies even
19:57 VanessaE    meh, can't use that name
19:57 Fixer       crap, can confirm
19:57 Fixer       OpenCube - Responsive Menus
19:57 celeron55   openminer is a million things also
19:57 Fixer       suggestive as hell
19:57 celeron55   you can't use simple names like that
19:58 Fixer       openvoxel is taken
19:58 VanessaE    Mesecrafter
19:58 rubenwardy  I suggest posting a criteria/your opinion on here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17133
19:58 Fixer       opencraft also taken
19:58 VanessaE    only 11 google results for "Mesecrafter", most of which are minetest related
19:58 twoelk      you can craft mese?
19:58 Fixer       VanessaE: retarded
19:59 VanessaE    twoelk: you can craft stuff with it :)
19:59 VanessaE    Fixer: well suggest a better one then
19:59 celeron55   if you put mese in the name, it's certainly usable
19:59 celeron55   one option is pulling the name from the project i tried to make in 2015, buildat
19:59 Fixer       CeleCraft
20:00 VanessaE    nah, buildat is overly-generic also, no offense.
20:00 celeron55   i still think the april 1st prank was good
20:00 celeron55   i don't remember the year, but
20:00 celeron55   communismcraft
20:00 VanessaE    what was it?  I kinda tried to avoid th....   oh. :P
20:00 Fixer       PepeCraft
20:00 Fixer       that will be massive win
20:00 paramat     buildat has some charm though, unlike the suggestions in the strawpoll
20:00 twoelk      I don't think the name should be related to cubes, voxels or mining as it seems the engine aims at not being restricted to that
20:01 Fixer       introduce pepe instead of nyancat
20:01 VanessaE    twoelk: the engine may aim to be generic but at the end of the day it's still a voxel grid
20:01 red-001     why did you call me rubenwardy ?
20:01 Fixer       Pepecraft | SpigotMC - High Performance Minecraft
20:01 celeron55   it's a voxel engine, that's not going to change; but crafting or so isn't really a focus
20:01 twoelk      rather node grid in respect to unvoxely dreambuilder
20:01 Fixer       yeah
20:02 Fixer       but voxel itself is kinda creepy
20:03 kilbith     where, in the nickname?
20:03 VanessaE    kilbith: the user@host
20:03 kilbith     ah, noted
20:03 kilbith     but it's kinda fun 8)
20:03 red-001     get's old after a while
20:03 celeron55   this was one of my crazy name lists in 2013 https://gist.github.com/celeron55/5494364
20:04 celeron55   i actually took buildat from that list
20:04 Fixer       voxelness
20:04 Fixer       KEK
20:04 paramat     Mined the gap
20:04 Fixer       that list is insane
20:05 paramat     Voxpants
20:05 VanessaE    all of those names are terrible :P
20:05 shivajiva   bump https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5622
20:05 Fixer       VolumetricPixel3D
20:05 celeron55   it's possible to have much longer names too
20:05 Fixer       .io
20:06 celeron55   like, we could have a sentence as a project name
20:06 Fixer       Volumetric Pixel 3D 2017 engine
20:07 VanessaE    that's just horrible
20:07 celeron55   in 2010 a game called VVVVVV was released
20:07 Fixer       roguelike one iirc
20:07 Fixer       there is vvv program
20:08 paramat     those crazy names actually have charm, which is why i would let c55 choose
20:08 Fixer       Volumetric Pixel Simulator 2017
20:08 celeron55   i'd change the name to mesetint any day that more than like 1 person said they like it
20:09 shivajiva   lol
20:09 celeron55   These Voxels Might Have Names
20:09 * celeron55 the name artist
20:09 Fixer       rename it to just "Pepe" and it will be a huge hit
20:10 VanessaE    heh
20:10 Fixer       will be in first results in google search
20:10 VanessaE    Meseland
20:10 twoelk      with "mesetint" the typicall reaction to hearing the name first time will be a "what?" instead of the usual frown at minetest
20:11 Fixer       MinePepe, that is just silly
20:12 Fixer       twoelk: minetest is worse than what
20:12 Fixer       VanessaE: mese is just a block from a subgame(game)
20:12 celeron55   i think "what?" is a good reaction
20:12 VanessaE    Fixer: it's also something you won't find in any other game
20:13 VanessaE    and no matter how you slice it, to the average person, Minetest Engine == minetest_game ...  so capitalize on it.
20:13 shivajiva   ^
20:13 twoelk      I don't think the "-tint" part of mesetint works well though - at least not in english
20:14 Fixer       engine is supposed to be independant
20:15 VanessaE    Fixer: to the average person, it doesn't matter
20:15 VanessaE    they.  don't.  care.
20:15 VanessaE    so instead of trying to fight that, capitalize on it.
20:15 Fixer       VanessaE: minetest_game is kinda crippled and may need a reborning
20:15 Fixer       capitalize crippled sandbox subgame?
20:16 VanessaE    Fixer: no, silly.  capitalize on the connection between engine and game.
20:16 VanessaE    no engine install comes without _game
20:16 Fixer       VanessaE: but there should be more games included with this engine
20:16 VanessaE    (in normal packaged installs that is)
20:16 VanessaE    yes there should
20:16 VanessaE    but there aren't.
20:17 * twoelk    doesn't think mtg is beyond repair
20:17 VanessaE    and I'm saying capitalize on the good things mt_game has, or the things unique to it
20:17 VanessaE    i.e. mese or whatever else
20:17 nerzhul     just a note, can we finish the current roadmap, there are 171 PR active, i think it's more important for 0.4.16 cycle than a name :)
20:17 Fixer       mese is almost useless
20:17 Fixer       only good part is lamps...
20:17 Fixer       and tools
20:18 VanessaE    lamps...and tools...and magical stuff...and power sources....and...and...
20:18 twoelk      on many servers mese is vital for crafting protection
20:18 nerzhul     paramat, sorry but none of my last comments were addresses
20:18 VanessaE    just because it's not well-used in mt_game doesn't mean it's just some random block
20:18 nerzhul     addressed*
20:18 VanessaE    the point of mentioning it is that nothing else has Mese.
20:18 celeron55   minetest works well for all languages where "test" isn't a native word :P
20:18 celeron55   so, just not in the US and UK and such
20:18 Fixer       use CeleCraft and be done with it :trollface:
20:18 celeron55   everywhere else it's surprisingly quite fine
20:19 nerzhul     google is a native word too, minegoogle can be a good name :p
20:19 VanessaE    celeron55: actually "test" is a native word in like 40% of the world.
20:19 Fixer       including my country
20:20 Fixer       test part is horrifying
20:20 Fixer       get rid of it
20:20 twoelk      in german it sounds like my-test
20:21 nerzhul     Fixer, right, let's call it minekampf
20:21 nerzhul     :D
20:21 VanessaE    ...
20:21 Fixer       minekraft
20:21 nerzhul     1 point godwin !
20:21 Fixer       ms will be pissed
20:21 paramat     nerzhul the author is asking your advice in a line comment
20:21 Fixer       nerzhul: new best seller now in 3d /s
20:22 nerzhul     oh i have missed it no ? can you link it please ?
20:23 celeron55   i should have come up with another bad name at the start though
20:23 celeron55   if this was called derpxel, nobody would have ever complained
20:23 Fixer       https://www.reddit.com/r/VoxelGameDev/comments/why8x/the_big_list_of_block_engines/
20:23 Fixer       herpexel
20:23 VanessaE    celeron55: nah, then you'd have people complaining that it's a stupid, even offensive name in the same vein as those who complain about The GIMP.
20:24 celeron55   i think derpxel fits fairly well
20:24 paramat     lol
20:24 Fixer       gimp still at gtk2
20:24 VanessaE    Fixer: thank G*d.
20:24 celeron55   who would leave the project if it was renamed to derpxel? nobody? ok good
20:24 VanessaE    fuck gtk3
20:24 celeron55   i'm going with derpxel
20:24 VanessaE    fuck gtk3 up the ass with a rust pole, no lube, blunt end first.
20:24 paramat     nerzhul https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4524#discussion_r113557684
20:24 Fixer       https://www.reddit.com/r/VoxelGameDev/wiki/index
20:25 celeron55   and it's going to be pronounced "derpkel" just for the sake of it
20:25 shivajiva   I think Vanessa is just pointing out we need something to tie the game and engine for the public perception even though they are separate entities we shouldn't unlink them totally, that way we have a common search reference
20:25 nerzhul     paramat, ty
20:26 Fixer       derpixel ?
20:26 VanessaE    shivajiva: well perhaps, but that's kinda overstating it.
20:26 Fixer       celeron55: voxel.io - hipster friendly
20:26 VanessaE    celeron55: I hope not.  that's a horrible name
20:26 celeron55   VanessaE: there's no name in existence you wouldn't call horrible; it makes your opinion irrelevant
20:27 VanessaE    celeron55: that's not true and you know it :P
20:27 celeron55   well then say one that isn't taken
20:27 shivajiva   me overstated nah ;)
20:27 VanessaE    celeron55: I did.  twice.
20:27 paramat     mesetint is a fine name
20:27 celeron55   oh the mese based ones
20:28 VanessaE    yeah.
20:28 nerzhul     "nyancatcontroversy the game"
20:28 nerzhul     #troll
20:28 paramat     the worst names are the unimaginative combinations of 'free open cube voxel miner'
20:28 paramat     like 'freeminer' :]
20:29 celeron55   i'd never use anything like that
20:29 shivajiva   lol
20:29 celeron55   even calling the game "sally" would be better like most open source projects seem to be these days
20:29 celeron55   just pick a random name, not related in any way
20:29 nerzhul     openceleron55
20:29 celeron55   you can never recall how to launch programs on the command line as the names are just whatever
20:30 celeron55   like, who here even knows what their file browser's executable name is
20:30 Fixer       Voxel.cpp
20:30 VanessaE    thunar. :)
20:31 Shara       'name goes here'
20:31 VanessaE    (how the fuck it got to be called that? no idea)
20:31 Fixer       explorer.exe
20:31 celeron55   VanessaE: exactly, lol
20:31 Fixer       and that is most depressing part
20:32 celeron55   what if i translate meseland to finnish: mesemaa
20:32 celeron55   that sounds funky
20:33 celeron55   then put some bad ass funk on the main menu and blow all other game engines out of the water as they don't have funk on their main menus
20:33 VanessaE    heh
20:34 celeron55   mesefunk
20:34 celeron55   the branding opportunities are endless
20:35 paramat     finnish words could work well
20:35 celeron55   i'd love it if i could change the name to mesemaa
20:36 paramat     like 'kuutio'
20:36 VanessaE    SandVox Engine and meseland_game.   there.
20:36 celeron55   just calling it kuutio would be fine too
20:36 rubenwardy  how is that pronounced?
20:36 celeron55   there are some IoT products and stuff that have simple finnish words as names and people like them
20:36 VanessaE    fek, sandvox is taken :(
20:38 paramat     wow so many games have either cube, voxel, craft or mine, so boring
20:38 celeron55   rubenwardy: google translate doesn't get it entirely wrong
20:39 nerzhul     IronVoxel
20:41 shivajiva   kuutio shows an image of a cube, simple, I kinda like that for some reason
20:42 celeron55   kuutio is the direct translation of cube with the same exact meaning
20:42 rubenwardy  kuut.io is taken though, so we couldn't be hipster
20:42 VanessaE    286'000 results.
20:42 celeron55   it's a common finnish word, you're going to get some results, lol
20:42 Fixer       went away for a minute, and AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:42 VanessaE    so I assumed :P
20:42 twoelk      kuuitomaa?
20:43 VanessaE    "No results found for kuuitomaa"
20:43 VanessaE    it almost sounds....Japanese
20:43 celeron55   that sounds kind of retarded actually (and has a typo on it)
20:43 Fixer       please no
20:43 celeron55   palikkamaa would be the same thing more naturally said
20:43 Fixer       even worse than minetest
20:43 celeron55   palikka is like block
20:44 VanessaE    taken.
20:44 Fixer       you can't even remember this
20:44 paramat     i briefly started work on a mod-base subgame one night recently and called it Kuutiocore
20:44 VanessaE    (45 results, some kind of LEGO thing)
20:44 rubenwardy  It needs to be pronounceable and spellable by an English-speaker, really
20:44 VanessaE    Kuutiocore - "cutey-o-core"
20:45 celeron55   rubenwardy: who ares, mese is fine too :D
20:45 celeron55   cares*
20:45 celeron55   and nobody says it the same
20:45 VanessaE    MEsecore :)
20:45 celeron55   kuutiocore sounds cool to a finnish speaker
20:45 VanessaE    nah, taken :(
20:46 celeron55   very cool actually
20:46 VanessaE    kuutiocore actually sounds okay to an English speaker too
20:46 Shara       it is a little long though.
20:46 Shara       Going to see lots of wonderful mis-spellings with something like that
20:46 celeron55   it could be shortened to kcore or kuutioc for file names and stuff
20:46 VanessaE    "cue-TEE-o-core" is probably how one would want to pronounce it (rather than "CUtie-o-core")
20:47 red-001     that makes it sound like part of kde
20:47 paramat     spellable or obvious pronunciation isn't important, finnish words and/or a japanese sound sound very cool to English speakers
20:47 Fixer       rubenwardy: not just english speaker
20:47 twoelk      I don't think finish pronounce it like cute
20:47 celeron55   VanessaE: that's correct
20:47 Shara       Suddenly I worry we'll end up with Cute Cubes somehow...
20:47 celeron55   i mean
20:47 twoelk      probabbly more like cut
20:47 VanessaE    paramat: marketing.  how it sounds/is pronounced is absolutely important
20:48 celeron55   long u, like VE said; cue
20:48 paramat     yeah
20:48 twoelk      ah
20:48 VanessaE    (my husband does these at-home surveys.  maybe a lot of BS, but you can learn a few things from them)
20:49 paramat     a word not obvious in it's pronunciation raises interest and people have fun choosing a pronunciation, which is why we love mese :]
20:49 celeron55   i guess community members won't mind if the main project steals their name some day...
20:49 VanessaE    celeron55: fyi, "uu" is a long-"you" sound in English, as in vacuum
20:50 celeron55   the way cue and vacuum is said is like finnish "y" though, which might be the same thing as ü in some languages
20:51 Fixer       found this https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/wiki/block_engines
20:51 VanessaE    good lord
20:51 VanessaE    didn't know there were so many
20:51 paramat     when i googled for the finnish for cube i actually laughed loud at how cool and cute it was
20:53 paramat     i added core to suggest it is what you add modules to
20:54 rubenwardy  terasology was in google summer of code last year O_o
20:54 celeron55   there are lots of finnish words that all are weird to pronounce to a foreigner; something like "suorakulma" comes to mind (straight angle; mathematically and as a tool)
20:55 celeron55   that would be a funny reference to building
20:55 VanessaE    "soo-rah-kull-ma" is how one might pronounce that here.
20:56 nerzhul     fusrohdah !
20:57 twoelk      not so'ura.....?
20:57 VanessaE    goozfrabah... ;)
20:57 VanessaE    twoelk: it would vary.  I could see both./
20:58 Hijiri      I think a new GUI API should be entirely in client-side modding and do stuff on the server by message channels
20:58 VanessaE    twoelk: think fluorine/fluoride.  floor-een, floor-ide
20:58 Hijiri      (this implies that the server can send client mods to the client)
20:58 celeron55   you literally probably just put the word in [] to get the IPA notation
20:58 Amaz        Some of these sound almost like names Ikea would come up with for their furniture :P
20:58 nerzhul     Hijiri, nothing new, it was already discussed
20:58 Hijiri      oh, ok
20:58 VanessaE    celeron55: whoever came up with IPA apparently doesn't speak English ;)
20:59 nerzhul     but we talk we talk and PR are not finished, please review your PR guys, enhance them, and help us to close issues (by sending PR or notify us which issue to close)
20:59 Hijiri      #5612
20:59 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5612 -- Allow overriding tool capabilities through itemstack metadata by raymoo
20:59 twoelk      now english is a pretty bad example for pronounciation code in spelling :-P
21:00 paramat     Ikea names are very cool
21:00 sfan5       can we rename to Björn
21:00 Fixer       MineCube
21:00 twoelk      Oerkiimaa?
21:00 paramat     heh
21:01 VanessaE    sfan5: what about Agnetha, Benny, Anni-Frid ?
21:01 VanessaE    :)
21:01 sfan5       we will required further included subgames to rename to that
21:01 sfan5       s/d / /
21:02 twoelk      have björn with subgame agnetha and add mod benny with texturpack annifrid
21:02 celeron55   all of those sound swedish
21:02 shivajiva   lol
21:02 VanessaE    they are. :)
21:02 shivajiva   brotherhood of man
21:03 paramat     motherhood of bran
21:03 celeron55   naming something finnish with a swedish word would seem like a joke to every finnish person
21:03 VanessaE    celeron55: they're the names of the band members of ABBA :)
21:03 celeron55   oh, well that makes sense
21:05 * twoelk    wonders how well abba tunes might work with mt
21:05 celeron55   (joke, kind of like the thing is so bad it can't have a finnish name)
21:06 rubenwardy  lol
21:07 shivajiva   when does the mamma mia release come out?
21:07 rubenwardy  I suggest we name the engine to Kuutio when we Finnish it
21:07 celeron55   the bad release?, let's rush it
21:07 shivajiva   rofl
21:08 Fixer       finish him
21:08 shivajiva   nice one ruben
21:26 Fixer       name it OpenMinecraft and insult everyone at the same time
21:26 Fixer       like OpenTTD, OpenRA, OpenXcom
21:29 sofar       OpenFreeGNUMineTest
21:29 sofar       there, we're done now
21:30 VanessaE    hah
21:32 paramat     so shall we merge new chests? nore rubenwardy sfan5
21:33 sfan5       seems fine to me
21:33 VanessaE    you mean the ones that look open?
21:33 paramat     game#793
21:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/793 -- Improve Chest appearance - opening chests. by sofar
21:34 VanessaE    yeah.
21:34 paramat     mods will need to update chest textures?
21:35 paramat     no, it just breaks texture packs, ok by me
21:35 VanessaE    it breaks pipeworks too, fwiw
21:36 paramat     good chance now to merge it
21:37 paramat     so probably merge tonight
21:38 rubenwardy  paramat,  +1 for concept, I haven't tested or reviewed
21:38 garywhite   It doesn't seem like a needed issue, & if it breaks pipeworks, that's gonna screw up a lot of servers
21:38 garywhite   So I'm gonna have to -1
21:38 garywhite   Good idea, but needs the bugs worked out 100% before adding
21:39 VanessaE    as far as I know it'll only break the textures
21:39 paramat     there are no bugs
21:39 VanessaE    pipeworks adds an "tube connection" overlay image.  It shouldn't be hard to fix
21:39 garywhite   So it won't destroy the mod?
21:39 paramat     nore mentioned a small issue of laggy formspec
21:39 VanessaE    I don't think so but I have not tried it.
21:40 garywhite   Then as long as it doesn't destroy the mod, then I  change it to a +1
21:40 VanessaE    I can just check the drawtype of the node, if it's mesh, adapt how the overlay is used.
21:40 paramat     i'm sure the maintainer of pipeworks will quickly update
21:40 VanessaE    however, there's other stuff
21:40 VanessaE    the mod basically has to redefine the chests completely
21:41 VanessaE    because at the time, there wasn't an API that I could override/wedge into
21:42 VanessaE    in addition to the overlays, pipeworks also adds a little "toggle switch" to the chest's formspec
21:43 VanessaE    https://github.com/minetest-mods/pipeworks/blob/master/compat-chests.lua
21:43 VanessaE    off the top of my head, I think you'll just get the old chest behavior
21:43 VanessaE    but with broken textures
21:45 VanessaE    this btw is another argument for not using the all-in-one image that's been proposed.
21:45 VanessaE    (still requires changes to pipeworks though, regardless)
21:54 VanessaE    so, can something be added to let me modify the formspec so that I don't have to redefine it so thoroughly?
21:55 VanessaE    just making the formspec strings and functions global might be enough.
21:55 rubenwardy  would be awesome to abstract sfinv for this
21:55 rubenwardy  and also make it better at modifying things
23:19 Fixer       detected a new strange bug related to rendering of borders in protected redo which was broken in very recent builds, something changed in engine so that entity disappears when i look in certain direction?
23:41 bkeys       Hello, I got your master server running on my pi and I tried to replicate the JSON that is sent in the POST request
23:41 bkeys       https://da.gd/ML3o
23:41 bkeys       This is my python code
23:42 bkeys       https://da.gd/YHRk
23:42 bkeys       And this is the JSON it is sending to the web server. I believe all the fields are there
23:42 bkeys       They are in a different order; but I don't think that matters. The master server sees the request; is there anything else I need to do to register a server? Because it is not showing on on the server list
23:43 bkeys       I turned on the DEBUG option in the config.py file but it is not giving me any output on why the server is not being registered
23:45 bkeys       I got it pulling from the master server list no problem (which actually feels really cool). Once I POST and register a master server I would only need to replicate the JSON that deregisters it and I got what I need. I already have the exit JSON documented too.
23:45 bkeys       Maybe once I have this working in my game I can document in a .md file how to use it; so others can benefit from this master server
23:48 rubenwardy  You really should read the source, it'll be helpful
23:49 rubenwardy  also, your address needs to be pointing to a Minetest server
23:49 bkeys       I am doing that now
23:49 bkeys       (reading the source)
23:50 bkeys       I added an IP address and it is the same
23:50 bkeys       According to the source it should print out an error
23:54 bkeys       https://github.com/minetest/master-server/blob/master/server.py#L42
23:54 bkeys       It is not getting past line 42 for some reason
23:55 paramat     Fixer is protected redo using textures with backface culling? wild guess
23:56 Fixer       paramat: no idea, posted an issue here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5671 commit in question is betw 17-22 apr
23:58 VanessaE    Fixer: I've seen the same glitch with Worldedit's selection box.
23:59 Fixer       VanessaE: it is a new change/bug
23:59 Fixer       will bisect tommorrow