Time Nick Message 03:24 paramat sofar if possible could you review #5223 sometime? 03:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5223 -- Objectpos over limit: Avoid crash caused by sector over limit by paramat 04:36 sofar sfan5: hey 04:36 sofar sfan5: about the fonts 04:37 sofar sfan5: lucida sans is proprietary and costs money in order to ship 04:37 sofar sfan5: so, if you really, REALLY, R E A L L Y want to keep non-freetype fonts around 04:37 sofar then you, Y O U better come up with a solution that is better than mine 04:38 sofar that's enough of that 04:38 sofar cut the cord and move on, please 04:38 sofar as far as I can see it we're in fucking deep trouble for shipping that file without a proper license anyway 04:38 VanessaE But...but... muh pixels! 04:38 VanessaE :) 04:39 sofar maybe people don't understand the legal issue 04:39 sofar and I don't want to put it in writing in github 04:40 VanessaE *looks at Lucida license* 04:40 VanessaE jeez. 04:41 VanessaE You may embed the Fonts into electronic documents or graphic image files for personal, academic, or internal business use provided that (a) only subsets of the Fonts, consisting only of the characters used in the document or file, are embedded; and (b) the electronic documents or graphic files are distributed in a format that allows only printing and viewing, and prohibits editing or modifying the text 04:41 VanessaE so minetest is in the clear, because they're distributed in an almost-useless irrlicht image format 04:41 sofar not the right license 04:41 sofar no 04:41 sofar "electronic documents or graphic image files" 04:42 sofar that's not what minetest is 04:42 sofar minetest is a program 04:42 sofar embedding in a mobile app is for a fee 04:42 VanessaE hm. 04:42 VanessaE either way, it's time to get rid of them 04:42 sofar "electronic documents or graphic image files" means "pdf or picture" 04:43 sofar like, you make a screenshot of a word document 04:44 VanessaE doesn't say that in the license 04:44 VanessaE they have to expressly define what an image is or isn't in the legalese 04:44 sofar if the use is not covered in the license, the license does not grant the use 04:44 VanessaE since they didn't, "image" is open to interpretation 04:44 sofar https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/microsoft/lucida-sans/licensing.html 04:44 sofar App: for embedding in mobile applications 04:44 sofar Select this license type when you are developing an app for iOS, Android, or Windows Phone, and you will be embedding the font file in your mobile application’s code. 04:44 sofar This font's app license is: 04:44 sofar Pay Once 04:44 VanessaE I'm on lucidafonts.com 04:45 VanessaE pretty sure it is the source of the font :P 04:45 sofar according to wikipedia, microsoft owns the cont 04:45 sofar https://www.microsoft.com/typography/fonts/family.aspx?FID=174 04:45 VanessaE Microsoft owns B&H? 04:46 sofar 35$ to use in a game 04:46 sofar on catalog.monotype.com 04:46 sofar You can use it for 04:46 sofar Use fonts in your game 04:46 sofar License is for specific game titles 04:46 sofar Based on platforms supported 04:46 sofar 35$ 04:47 VanessaE this page disagrees with you... http://lucidafonts.com/pages/trademark 04:47 sofar wait, weird cart system 04:48 sofar 750$ for a single mobile game license 04:50 sofar VanessaE: you did read the EULA that that trademark page refers to? 04:50 VanessaE skimmed over it yes 04:50 sofar it clearly says: one use only, no distribution 04:50 sofar plus we don't ship the EULA 04:51 sofar so, again, all our users are in violation 04:51 sofar ... this can all go away in 3 minutes of time ... 04:52 sofar "you many not embed the Fonts in an application or app for mobile phones, electronic tablets, tablet computers, or similar platforms" 04:52 VanessaE I agree with you 100% to get rid of them, but I think you're overstating the danger a little :) 04:53 sofar well to me the risk is real, since I can't associate myself with OSS projects that are in clear license violation 04:53 VanessaE the worst they'd have done, most likely, since this isn't a commercial product, is send someone a nastygram ordering the fonts removed and deleted. 04:53 VanessaE (which is what you're proposing to do anyway) 04:53 sofar I can lose my job if this doesn't get resolved and I become complacent 04:54 sofar my employer will not tolerate it 04:54 sofar end of story 04:54 sofar if someone wants to offer a different legal interpretation? I can't accept that. 04:54 sofar too much personal risk for me 04:54 VanessaE don't you have commit access anyway? 04:55 sofar and sfan5 would just revert it 04:55 VanessaE hm 05:03 sofar meh 05:03 sofar it doesn't help that nobody gives a shit 05:04 VanessaE I'm sure people care but you know how it can be here. 05:06 sofar yeah, 9pm pst and its just you in here and this weird echo 05:08 VanessaE so ping a few people :) 05:18 Zeno` hmm 05:18 sofar you know, FINE, I'm more interested in fixing the license issues than removing freetype 05:18 sofar I'm submitting a patch that keeps old deadweight code around just so I can convince one dev 05:19 VanessaE no 05:19 Zeno` can't we just use a different font? 05:19 sofar it's an old bitmap font 05:19 sofar generated with a tool that segfaults for me 05:19 sofar no 05:19 sofar NO 05:19 Zeno` bitmap fonts are not (C)-able 05:19 sofar I am not wasting my time on that tool 05:19 sofar it's from 2003 05:20 VanessaE Zeno`: maybe not but they can be (and are)_ trademarked 05:20 Zeno` the typeface, yeah 05:20 VanessaE from a legal-we'll-fuck-you-over standpoint, it may as well be copyright. 05:21 Zeno` so... we cannot use a different font because...? 05:21 VanessaE because they're very difficult to create in a form Minetest/irrlicht can use 05:21 VanessaE see above about that segfaulting tool 05:21 VanessaE I've used it also 05:21 VanessaE it's a right pain in the ass. 05:21 sofar hey lets use the old version, under wine! 05:21 sofar yeah, that'll look great 05:21 VanessaE sofar: you know...come to think of it, I might have done just that. 05:22 sofar for exactly who? the 0 users that are holding out on freetype? 05:22 sofar wtf? 05:22 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4436 05:22 VanessaE maybe you can use those, idk 05:22 Zeno` who does NOT use freetype? 05:22 VanessaE Zeno`: only luddites, really. 05:22 sofar sfan5, apparently :) 05:23 VanessaE sofar: note this, https://github.com/kahrl/irrtum 05:23 VanessaE THAT is what I used 05:24 VanessaE (I'm a little surprised my old forum thread is still there) 05:24 Zeno` oh I see the issue now. irrlicht format... of course 05:25 VanessaE according to The Great Wikipedia, Dejavu fonts are public domain. 05:25 sofar deja vu is fine, yes 05:25 sofar it's the other 4 that are bad 05:26 VanessaE so you're more than welcome to use the bitmaps I put in that forum post if you really must keep bitmap fonts to keep sfan5 et al. happy :) 05:26 sofar you know 05:26 sofar fuck that 05:26 sofar that's just irresponsible 05:26 VanessaE heh ok 05:31 sofar sorry, walked away from keyboard for a bit to cool off 05:32 VanessaE no worries. 05:34 VanessaE this is the part where sapier is supposed to pop in and say something snarky... ;) 05:35 sofar at work, if we would make a mistake like this, what do you think would happen 05:35 VanessaE (if memory serves, he created all of those variously-sized bitmaps, but I don't remember why) 05:35 sofar we'd be at 20 news sites lyncning my company 05:36 sofar screaming we're the baddies 05:36 VanessaE well for sure, someone would be fired I suppose 05:36 VanessaE and someone else would be sued 06:47 OldCoder Wait 06:47 OldCoder There are loads of compatible fonts 07:15 celeron55 how about just remove the font so the ones who use bitmap fonts have some motivation to make one 07:19 sofar that's what the new patch does 07:19 sofar it leaves the only font that is ok to leave as is 07:29 OldCoder 07:31 OldCoder "run_at_every_load = 1" doesn't work for LBMs. If I force a load by changing an LBM name randomly on every run of a _game... 07:31 OldCoder will that pile up storage of LBM timestamps or will old timestamps disappear? 07:31 OldCoder 07:31 OldCoder sofar, VanessaE, celeron55 ? 07:38 sofar boolean, not '1' 07:38 sofar 'true' 07:38 celeron55 in Lua, 1 == false 07:38 celeron55 because lol 07:38 Zeno` sofar, I'm ok with it 07:38 Zeno` that patch 07:38 celeron55 or, i mean; that statement is not true 07:39 sofar #5230 07:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5230 -- FreeType: address font license issue, remove non-freetype builds. by sofar 07:39 Zeno` yes 07:39 Zeno` if everything is fine with it, +1 from me 07:39 sofar actually subject is wrong 07:39 sofar it doesn't remove non-freetype builds 07:39 Zeno` *nod* 07:39 Zeno` just one font left. that's fine I think 07:39 Zeno` for the 2 players who don't use freetype :) 07:40 celeron55 eh, i mean, 1 != true 07:40 sofar Zeno`: I'll likely push later, just before bed 07:40 sofar get it over with 07:40 Zeno` celeron55, that caught me a few weeks ago. Had be stumped for hours 07:40 Zeno` s/be/me 07:40 sofar sfan5 pretty much ok'd it in this form 07:40 Zeno` ok, so two +1's :) 07:41 sofar $ lua 07:41 sofar > 1 == false 07:41 sofar false 07:41 sofar lol 07:41 sofar 1 is neither true nor false in my lua 07:41 celeron55 yes, it's neither 07:41 celeron55 it's completely logical as the type system is very simple 07:41 celeron55 if types don't match, the comparison doesn't matchj 07:42 celeron55 and numbers aren't booleans 07:42 celeron55 most languages complicate it further from that 10:26 nrzkt seems i forget to publish mt 0.4.15 on playstore, if i remember we had some gradle issues 10:26 nrzkt i fixed it in master but after release if i remembered 10:27 nrzkt currently there are 4412 installations 11:29 sfan5 sfan5 pretty much ok'd it in this form 11:29 sfan5 i didn't 11:29 sfan5 also i'm wondering why we arent allowed to use droidsansfallback 11:35 sfan5 also it's called fallback font for a good reason 11:35 sfan5 you just broke support of chinese & japanese 11:42 sfan5 #5231 11:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5231 -- Chinese & Japanese characters don't appear 14:55 crazyR is there anyway to get a list of curently loaded chunks? 16:23 red-001 is #5231 for non-freetype builds or all builds? 16:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5231 -- Chinese & Japanese characters don't appear 16:45 sofar sfan5: I read your comment above 17:09 sfan5 red-001: it's broken in all builds, however for non-freetype builds it's not (really) fixable 17:20 sofar would putting the fallback font back fix it? 17:21 sofar non-freetype bitmap fonts have a really limited amount of characters 17:51 sfan5 would putting the fallback font back fix it? 17:51 sfan5 yes 17:51 sofar ok, I'll make a patch when I get out of work 19:54 paramat est31 nerzhul nore rubenwardy please can anyone review this simple crashfix #5223 ? 19:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5223 -- Objectpos over limit: Avoid crash caused by sector over limit by paramat 22:34 red-001 I though this was fixed? #5232 22:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5232 -- Falling nodes loses their meta info