Time Nick Message 13:45 juhdanad Hi all! 13:46 Krock hi 13:46 juhdanad I think Minecraft will also use palette coloring soon: https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/823564611169484802 13:49 Krock uhm.. what's so special about it? I mean, instead of using 1000 different nodes it uses param2 or similar 13:49 Krock but the memory amount is still the same 13:50 juhdanad Well... true. 13:57 Wuzzy i noticed something interesting about minetest.rotate_node and minetest.place_and_rotate 13:58 Wuzzy the node can have many many different orientations after this. this may be counter-productive for pillar-like nodes 13:58 Wuzzy i noticed this when making MineClone 2 13:58 Wuzzy i kinda solved the problem for myself, but i want to discuss 13:59 Wuzzy Problem: Rotating a pillar-shaped node (like Tree in Minetest Game) after placing it 13:59 Wuzzy Naive solution: on_place=minetest.rotate_node 14:00 Wuzzy It *seems* to work, but the devil lies in the details 14:00 Wuzzy as long as the texture mirrors perfectly, nobody notices the problem 14:00 Wuzzy but if it doesnt, strange things happen (screenshot coming soon) 14:04 Wuzzy Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/dRqrB0n.png 14:05 Wuzzy the tree nodes and the pillar were placed first by looking into one direction, then into the other 14:05 Wuzzy My solution in MineClone 2 was to write my own minetest.place_and_rotate replacement which is basically just a simplified version 14:06 Wuzzy this function forces the node to only have 3 possible rotations, one for each of the axes (X, Y, Z) 14:06 Wuzzy because this is really all a pillar actually needs 14:08 Wuzzy btw the exact same rotation issue happens in Minetest Game as well, it is just very hard to notice because of the textures 14:10 Wuzzy Proof I'm not making this up: 14:10 Wuzzy https://i.imgur.com/N73mWLX.png 14:11 Wuzzy again, the same as in MineClone 2, but harder to notice 14:14 paramat well, just make sure to place these nodes while facing one direction, this is correct behaviour and rotation would break for many other nodes otherwise 14:14 Krock Wuzzy, nice 18-liner streak 14:14 celeron55 all the rotations are obviously needed for things that aren't pillars 14:14 Wuzzy yes, but pillars/trees are common use cases 14:15 celeron55 but maybe there could be a minetest.place_and_rotate_pillar or something, if that's a common use case 14:15 Wuzzy Yes! 14:15 Wuzzy exactly :) 14:15 paramat yeah 14:15 Wuzzy the other function can stay untouched IMO, but a pillar function would be useful 14:16 paramat but still, those placing pillars may want a particular texture rotation 14:16 Wuzzy i already made one for MineClone 2 because I didnt want to wait for an engine update (:P) : 14:16 Wuzzy paramat, not for pillars like these: https://i.imgur.com/dRqrB0n.png 14:16 Wuzzy here it is a very good idea to force 3 axes 14:17 Wuzzy of course, at the end the modder decides whther to use full rotation or only pillar rotation 14:17 Wuzzy my point is that both should be possible without hacks ;-) 14:17 paramat a player may want the shadowing to be lower-right instead of upper-left 14:17 VanessaE Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest-mods/homedecor_modpack/blob/master/homedecor/init.lua#L66-L91 14:18 VanessaE maybe one of those functions can be adapted to your needs? 14:18 Wuzzy meh, this is not worth the trouble, it makes building pillars very annoying imo 14:18 Wuzzy for some pillars you are absolutely right but not for the purpur pillar i showed in creenshot 14:18 VanessaE (of course those are geared toward wallmounted nodes, but it should be trivial to make the code do plain facedir) 14:19 Wuzzy Fun fact: I already hacked-together my variant of minetest.rotate_node 14:19 Wuzzy http://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/blob/HEAD:/mods/mcl_util/init.lua 14:19 Wuzzy I wonder what your opinions/thoughts on this are 14:19 Wuzzy maybe not perfect for Minetest inclusion, but it does the job 14:20 Wuzzy but I would like to see something along the lines of this function in builtin :) 14:21 Wuzzy Minetest Game should also use this function for trees and cactus because of the ugly cut lines (https://i.imgur.com/N73mWLX.png) 14:23 paramat that's builder error 14:26 Wuzzy lol... 14:26 paramat but good points 14:26 Wuzzy well, in Minetest Game the player can always change the rotation afterwards 14:26 Wuzzy rotate_node is about the INITIAL rotation 14:27 Wuzzy allowing all facedirs on placement may seem like more creative freedom, but it makes building pillars also much more annoying because it gives more possibilities to screw up 14:28 Wuzzy e.g. if you want to place a pillar and start from the ceiling, then want to “match” it with the a part of the pillar you built at the bottom, you already screwed up 14:28 Wuzzy now you're forced to either tear down the pillar or to waste a screwdriver 14:28 Wuzzy by forcing a sane default orientation, you can easily build with less chances to screw up. its about convenience imo 14:29 Wuzzy Anyways, i actually want to know opinions on this: 14:29 Wuzzy http://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/blob/HEAD:/mods/mcl_util/init.lua 14:29 paramat the screwdriver can also be an argument for not needing pillar-rotate 14:29 Wuzzy what do you mean? 14:29 paramat players will learn to build a column in one direction only 14:30 Wuzzy its still less convenient, even if you know it 14:30 paramat i prefer to assume the face-direction rotation is intentional instead of assuming rotation should be restricted 14:31 Wuzzy well this is basically Minetest Game talk, then. would a function like mcl_util.rotate_axis_and_place have any chance to be in builtin? 14:31 paramat yes it has a chance 14:31 Wuzzy yay 14:32 Wuzzy anything bad about it? 14:32 Wuzzy it sure is redundant as hell xD 14:32 Wuzzy repeats lots of code 14:32 Wuzzy but u would be in general OK by adding a completely sepearate “utility” function? cool 14:33 paramat personally i'm unsure but others may like it 14:35 Wuzzy ok, back to my rotation argument. I summarize: SANE default rotation (3 axes) after placement with few chances to screw up. For advanced rotation: use screwdriver. Everyone = happy. :-) 14:35 VanessaE I can see wuzzy's argument for tree and other column placement, actually. I've had the same "problem" from time to time as well. 14:35 VanessaE it IS a little annoying not being able to line up two ends of a column without the help of the screwdriver. 14:37 Wuzzy Besides, Personally I would be also happy to put common functionality into Minetest, instead of hiding all interesting hacks away in a subgame. ;-) 14:39 paramat it would make sense for the cactus texture because that has shadows under the spikes, you would want those shadows always downwards 14:39 paramat jungletree also has a shadow orientation 14:40 paramat it's somewhat dependent on texture pack 14:42 VanessaE and anyway, Wuzzy if it were up to me, your idea should be implemented as another orient_flag on minetest.rotate_and_place 14:42 VanessaE e.g. something like "force_simple_facedir = true" or whatever 14:44 VanessaE or force_three_dir maybe 14:44 paramat when someone makes a column side-texture they tend to make shadows go downwards, you would want that orientation to be preserved 14:44 VanessaE yes. 14:44 paramat .. however you build 14:45 VanessaE so I could see the flag in question always rotating the placed node to one of three specific facedirs, to match Wuzzy's need 14:45 Wuzzy orient_flag... thats an excellent idea 14:45 Wuzzy i wasnt happy with basically copying 90% of the existing function anyway 14:46 Wuzzy not ust Wuzzy's need. i'm sure many other subgame authors would also want simple pillar rotation 14:46 VanessaE just speaking in context :) 14:46 Wuzzy otherwise i wouldnt be here 14:47 Wuzzy paramat: You finally hit the nail on the head!!! :D 14:47 paramat currently cactus and tree trunks have 'on_place = minetest.rotate_node' 14:47 paramat this could then use a new function 14:48 VanessaE paramat: rotate_node() is just a shortcut to rotate_and_place() with a couple of flags preset 14:48 Wuzzy yes, once the new function is in MT, the Minetest Game change is easy as pie 14:48 VanessaE so a whole new function really isn't needed, imho 14:48 Wuzzy just need another wrapper 14:48 Wuzzy new function aka new functionality... lol 14:49 paramat ok 14:52 VanessaE I suppose so 15:04 Fixer i have a problem 15:04 Fixer /giveme cloud, can't mine it back 15:04 VanessaE you always have a problem :) 15:05 VanessaE that's a known issue 15:05 VanessaE a maptools admin pick should be able to remove it. 15:05 VanessaE (why does that node still even exist?) 15:05 Fixer compatibility? 15:06 VanessaE with? 15:06 Fixer iirc 0.2.2011 also had it, but didnot use it 15:06 Fixer yes 15:07 Fixer nobody used it tbh 15:08 VanessaE you can't get it without /give, can't dig it, and no recipes use it that I've ever heard of. 15:08 VanessaE imho that's a candidate for deletion 15:08 VanessaE (or at least, relegate it to 'minimal' and take it out of mt_game) 15:09 Thomas-S Could someone please review game#1559 ? As soon as this PR is merged, I can work on a few other PRs that make use of the new function. Thanks in advance! 15:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1559 -- Globalize and rename has_locked_chest_privilege by Thomas--S 15:09 Fixer VanessaE: maybe it is used for current clouds? 15:10 VanessaE nope 15:10 VanessaE current clouds are rendered 15:11 red-001 VanessaE, it seems to be really hard to remove nodes 15:12 red-001 both cloud and footsteps are unused nodes 15:12 VanessaE actually footsteps are used in some mods 15:12 red-001 yes mods 15:13 red-001 cloud is probably also used by some mod 15:13 Thomas-S If I remember correctly, there is some meteorite mod that uses the cloud node 15:14 VanessaE in my entire mods archive (747MB worth), there's only two uses, and in both cases, it's bring redefined anyway 15:14 VanessaE a couple of things use its texture 15:14 red-001 what about foot steps? 15:15 VanessaE quite a number of results for that 15:15 red-001 skyblock uses cloud 15:15 VanessaE mostly stuff using the texture or the sound 15:15 VanessaE oh yes, I forgot about that 15:15 VanessaE well I guess it stays :) 15:16 Fixer cloud in 2011: http://pastebin.com/raw/ME6umBDK 15:16 red-001 / just something 15:16 red-001 } 15:33 paramat 'dirt with grass footsteps' is very probably present in some maps, 'cloud' too 15:34 paramat i use the footsteps texture overlay in my 'trail' mod 15:34 Fixer i think you use cloud in that spherical planet mod 15:34 Fixer flexsmth 15:34 paramat no i always use mod nodes for clouds 15:35 paramat flexrealm 15:35 Fixer default:cloud 15:35 Fixer yes 15:35 Fixer paramat: could you please add cone like planet? to emulate climbing a huge mountain? (offtopic) 15:36 paramat hm you asked but i'm not interested 15:36 Fixer ok 15:37 paramat (or not interested enough) 15:38 Fixer i've opened an issue anyway long ago (so i'm fine) 15:38 paramat Wuzzy so 3 rotations with the node top either facing Y+ X+ Z+ 15:41 paramat sorry it took me a while to realise it's a good idea 15:44 VanessaE paramat: precisely that, yes 15:45 VanessaE (with the screwdriver being able to override that after the fact, if needed) 18:23 paramat please can anyone review #4682 ? looks good to me. this is high priority as it's the 1st half of fixing all lighting bugs 18:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4682 -- Fix water flooding onto lava by juhdanad 20:27 paramat #5215 just seen that firelike drawtype also has 'visual scale' applied twice, here's the fix, very similar PR to the one for plantlike 20:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5215 -- Firelike drawtype: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat 20:38 paramat also, amusingly, i forgot to update visual scale values in mtgame *=/ 20:42 paramat i have that done tonight 20:43 paramat since 5215 is near-identical to the PR for plantlike, and since it's less controversial, i'll merge later (2hrs) if no objections 21:22 paramat i'll also merge #4052 later 21:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4052 -- add minetest.get_last_run_mod to lua_api.txt by HybridDog 21:39 rubenwardy what's the use of that? 21:40 paramat no idea 21:41 paramat what do you think about merging this? 21:41 paramat i'm neutral 21:45 paramat i won't merge it then for now 21:46 celeron55 some functions can be internal to core; is this one of those? 21:46 celeron55 better not put it in lua_api.txt if it's not intended for use by mods 21:51 paramat not sure but comments suggest internal, 21:51 paramat i won't merge it 22:15 paramat #5215 updated and simplified 22:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5215 -- Firelike drawtype: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat 22:47 paramat #5199 will merge this later 22:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5199 -- Footsteps: Fix offset footstep and shallow water sound bugs by paramat 23:13 paramat game#1562 23:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1562 -- Visual scale: Update plantlike nodes to post-bugfix values by paramat