Time  Nick        Message
04:13 Zeno`       what happened to leaves?
04:13 Zeno`       they look... weird
04:18 VanessaE    where the fuck even ARE the trees? :)
04:20 VanessaE    ah, finally found some
04:21 VanessaE    leaves seem okay to me
04:25 Zeno`       find a whole bunch of them together
04:25 Zeno`       they have thin lines between them
04:25 VanessaE    I just did.
04:25 * VanessaE  looks again
04:25 Zeno`       vertical lines
04:25 Zeno`       maybe it's moretrees or something. Hmm
04:26 VanessaE    well, I see extra surfaces between leaves nodes but I don't remember if that's always been the case.
04:26 VanessaE    but no "lines"
04:27 Zeno`       perhaps mod issue
04:27 Zeno`       http://imgur.com/a/6WUK7
04:27 * VanessaE  checks a world with moretrees
04:27 VanessaE    wait
04:27 VanessaE    look closely
04:27 VanessaE    those are plantlike leaves
04:27 Zeno`       hmm yeah
04:28 VanessaE    that's a mod issue, the scale of the leaves isn't set right.
04:28 Zeno`       hmm
04:28 Zeno`       I see!
04:28 VanessaE    this might be the thing paramat did
04:28 VanessaE    with the squared plantlike scale
04:28 Zeno`       It wasn't like this a few weeks ago
04:28 Zeno`       oh that thing
04:28 Zeno`       right
04:28 Zeno`       perhaps after squaring should ceil()?
04:28 Zeno`       hmmm
04:28 VanessaE    idk
04:28 * Zeno`     looks
04:29 Zeno`       the question is. Should this be fixed in engine or the mods?
04:29 VanessaE    paramat would insist the mods
04:29 VanessaE    (I'm not sure I disagree, but I don't agree with the change having been made int he first place)
04:30 Zeno`       looking at the code first
04:33 Zeno`       paramat: Should that fix be reverted?
04:34 Zeno`       hmm
04:35 Zeno`       is that function large enough? lol
05:15 sofar       REALLY, NOW YOU"RE COMPLAINING ABOUT PLANTLIKE NOT FILLING THE NODE?
05:15 sofar       lol
05:15 sofar       I've spent a month making the case that it should
05:15 sofar       lmao
05:17 VanessaE    lol
05:18 sofar       but yeah, that's the problem with plantlike, you can't win
05:19 sofar       need to make it 23x16 pixels to get pixels in a consistent size, too
05:19 sofar       sqrt(2)*16
06:07 Zeno`       I missed it
06:07 Zeno`       let's fix!
06:10 VanessaE    wait!  NO!  not THAT button!
06:11 VanessaE    everyone take cover!
06:11 Zeno`       it's the green button!
06:11 Zeno`       perfectly safe? See? No ha *** LOST CARRIER ***
06:36 Zeno`       I think that... those two commits need to be reverted
06:37 Zeno`       because "fixing" requires both server update and client update
06:37 Zeno`       I don't like it at all
06:42 Zeno`       maybe they can be put back later after some more thought
06:46 nerzhul     hi Zeno`
06:47 Zeno`       hi
06:51 Zeno`       this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/cdc538e0a242167cd7031d40670d2d4464b87f2c   and this:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/953cbb3b15997a0e7c7c32af2365cb5046a9e476
06:59 nerzhul     merged #5198
06:59 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5198 -- Correct docs related to meta by rubenwardy
07:19 nerzhul     merging #5196
07:19 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5196 -- Add textures for air and ignore items by Wuzzy2
07:59 celeron55   ShadowNinja: i meant distributing it for use with other multiplayer games that need a server like that
07:59 celeron55   ShadowNinja: i don't really care; just wondered if anyone had even thought of the possibility
10:06 Zeno`       paramat: unless you can come up with a very good reason why those above two commits should be reverted I think we should revert them and attempt again after more thought is given to them
10:06 Zeno`       these ones: Zeno`> this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/cdc538e0a242167cd7031d40670d2d4464b87f2c   and this:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/953cbb3b15997a0e7c7c32af2365cb5046a9e476
10:07 Zeno`       I understood and understand what you were trying to do but they're causing major problems
10:12 Zeno`       not to mention the ugliness of trees with plantlike leaves
10:27 Zeno`       unless a fix can be written with the next two hours I think the responsible thing for me to do is revert those commits
10:27 Zeno`       ok?
10:34 nrzkt       Zeno`: agree
10:39 Zeno`       summary: old client, new server (BROKEN);  new client, old server (BROKEN);  new client new server (BROKEN);  old client, older server (OK)
10:39 Zeno`       that can't be good :/
12:14 Zeno`       ok, based on the points I listed above and with the support of another dev I am reverting those two commits mentioned
12:24 Zeno`       done
13:01 kilbith     can a dev considers deleting these kind of silly comments on sight, please ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5186#issuecomment-278246765
13:01 kilbith     it just looks unprofessional in the hardcore dev discussions and that user (tobyplowy) is used to it for too long
13:12 ninnghazad  so that pr i made back in 2014 is still open (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1737) just rebased it again. anything i can do to actually get this merged? or should i forget it as it's never gonna happen?
13:19 nore        ninnghazad: just commented it
13:20 ninnghazad  woah, thx! i'll fix the issues you noted.
13:38 paramat     hmmm ..
13:44 paramat     Zeno` :) you did review and support the visual scale change, sofar supported too. rubenwardy, sfan5 and nore supported the 2nd commit and didn't ask for reversion, so the support is larger than the dissapproval. a post was made in the forum informing that modders need to update their visual scale, once that is done all cases work
13:44 paramat     (disapproval)
13:45 paramat     so this reversion was done too fast without looking at the dev support
13:45 paramat     nrzkt
13:45 paramat     but lets get new opinions from all devs involved
13:45 paramat     re-assess
13:47 paramat     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16525 post added 2 weeks ago, many mods will be updated now
13:47 sfan5       kilbith: i agree that most of tobyplowy's issue comments are pretty unproductive
13:47 paramat     i think it would have been best to at least wait until i woke up and we discussed
13:49 paramat     nore sofar what's your opinion now on visual scale?
13:50 paramat     if you read the issues and PR there is no less painful way to fix this
13:50 nore        paramat: I must say I don't know, depends on how many mods have been updated and how much still need to be I'd say
13:51 paramat     i think how many mods have updated is not that important, we just need to decide what is best
13:52 paramat     anyway, let's re-assess
13:53 paramat     this reversion was too impulsive
13:54 paramat     note that visual scale acted differently between torchlike, signlike (correct) and plantlike (squared) so it was a nasty inconsistency
13:55 paramat     and as explained it takes more time to tune it by trial-and-error to get the scale you desire than to update the value in a mod, so it will save modders hassle overall
13:56 paramat     due to support for it and hasty reversion i suggest we revert-revert :)
13:57 sfan5       paramat: is the assesment correct that the commits were had broken backwards compat and were broken in master?
13:57 sfan5       <Zeno`> unless a fix can be written with the next two hours I think the responsible thing for me to do is revert those commits
13:57 sfan5       also i disagree with that
13:58 sfan5       master is the dev branch, it's allowed to be broken
13:58 sfan5       (broken as in minor features work [or don't] in unexpected ways)
14:00 paramat     the 2nd commit ensures backwards compatibility
14:00 paramat     as long as visual scale is updated in mods
14:00 paramat     so yes there is some disruption, mods need to be updated
14:01 paramat     but is unavoidable to sort out the mess
14:01 sfan5       seems good to me
14:01 paramat     best to read the issue and both PRs
14:02 paramat     anyway i'll make a new PR for re-review
14:02 sfan5       what about " old client, new server (BROKEN); " though, shouldn't that be working?
14:03 paramat     afaik that will work as long as the mod has been updated, and moretrees wasn't
14:04 sfan5       then there is zero reason to revert the commits?
14:04 paramat     well i understand the controversy about having to update the value in mods
14:05 paramat     but zeno supported the PR and it was merged 2 weeks ago
14:05 nore        sfan5: I think it also depends on whether the client is old enough or not, since IIRC this commit did not introduce a protocol bump
14:05 sfan5       not introducing a protobump is okay in certain circumstances
14:06 paramat     i chose the nearest protocol bump, which was very close, see rubenwardy's comment
14:06 paramat     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5115#issuecomment-275887403
14:07 paramat     the 2nd PR did exactly what rubenwardy asked
14:08 paramat     the old code made new types of plantlike very difficult to code, as i experienced, this will overall save more hassle for modders and devs than cause pain
14:08 paramat     (new types plantlike meshoptions)
14:11 paramat     issue #5069 PR 1 #5115 PR 2 #5138
14:11 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5069 -- Double application of 'visual scale' to plantlike, suggested solutions
14:11 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5115 -- Plantlike: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
14:11 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5138 -- Plantlike visual scale: Send sqrt(visual_scale) to old clients by paramat
14:12 paramat     in the old code the value was squared, so if a modder wants a perticular scale they don't get it, and have to use trial-and-error to get the size they want, this has caused me 5 mins of hassle as a modder at least once
14:13 paramat     seems less hassle to update the value in a mod
14:16 paramat     VanessaE perhaps you could update your mods? especially moretrees
14:18 Zeno`       sfan5, the change was much much to difficult to fix for a point release
14:18 sfan5       why
14:19 Zeno`       because of the number of mods it breaks
14:19 paramat     oh and tobyplowy is a pain in comments, c1ffisme is too but is not quite so bad
14:19 Zeno`       and no workaround
14:19 paramat     i have warned them many times but will be stricter
14:20 Zeno`       paramat, I thought you said you wanted to maintain "kwoleker's sense of quality"
14:21 paramat     sometimes a small amount of disruption is necessary to clean things up for good
14:21 paramat     this has been broken since 2011
14:21 Zeno`       anyway, add them back if that's the consensus but too many mods are broken
14:21 kilbith     paramat, I wish someone had the balls to delete their comments ruthlessly
14:21 Zeno`       paramat, yeah 6 years ago!
14:21 paramat     zeno you supported the PR and merged it :)
14:21 Zeno`       it's been there for 6 years with no complaints
14:22 Zeno`       I know I did
14:22 paramat     well see the issue, the bug has been fixed and broken many times over, but badly
14:23 paramat     my PRs were the first to understand the actual problem and do the correct fix
14:24 paramat     the old code will continue to cause grief for devs and modders if not fixed
14:28 paramat     the issue here is Vanessa not updating moretrees
14:42 VanessaE    huh?
14:42 * VanessaE  scrolls back
14:44 VanessaE    oh the plantlike stuff
14:44 VanessaE    it's in the minetest-mods group so anyone with access could have "fixed" it.
14:45 paramat     ahh, i could
14:45 VanessaE    https://github.com/minetest-mods/moretrees/blob/master/node_defs.lua#L34
14:45 VanessaE    probably there, as well a lines 43 and 57
14:46 paramat     i'd rather you did though
14:47 VanessaE    I'llg et it.
14:47 VanessaE    I'll get it.
14:47 paramat     oh cool thanks
14:48 paramat     so i think we need to revert the revert if that's possible
14:48 paramat     before we break mods again
14:49 VanessaE    done.
14:49 kilbith     better doing `git reset --hard f5d4494`
14:49 VanessaE    afaik that one's the only one of mine that uses visual_scale for anything important.
14:50 paramat     maybe i'll just make a new PR
14:50 VanessaE    kilbith's right
14:50 VanessaE    just reset --hard and force-push
14:50 paramat     ahhh
14:50 VanessaE    (yes I know it violates the 10min rule but I highly doubt anyone's built on top of this yet)
14:51 paramat     oh well, i better not then, it's been too long
14:51 VanessaE    fuck it
14:51 paramat     lol
14:51 VanessaE    Zeno` can save some face.
14:51 kilbith     a revert of a revert looks kinda silly if you ask me
14:51 VanessaE    agreed
14:51 paramat     i'll make a new PR
14:52 VanessaE    it's like that monty python routine about everyone being sacked, and then the ones who sacked those guyes got sacked, and so on up the like for a few more iterations
14:53 paramat     and i'll merge it in 1-2 hrs unless objections
14:54 VanessaE    bah, just reset and push now
15:09 celeron55   just revert a revert, it'll look fun
15:13 Fixer       Yo Dawg...
15:13 VanessaE    someone put him...on exhibit. :P
15:15 paramat     hehe
16:02 paramat     back soon need to pop out
16:13 * red-002   waits for a revert of a revert-revert
16:45 rdococ      revert^4
16:57 paramat     working on it ..
17:23 paramat     #5205 will merge soon
17:23 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5205 -- Plantlike: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
17:25 paramat     waiting for checks
17:49 paramat     guess i'll merge #4966 too
17:49 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4966 -- Use tree to list mods rather than textlist by rubenwardy
17:51 paramat     checks are slow for OSX, can't wait, will merge those 2 in a moment
18:03 paramat     now merging
18:08 paramat     done
18:18 ShadowNinja celeron55: Oh, I suppose you could use the master server with a different game pretty easily, you just have to get the server to send a JSON payload to the server periodically and there are a few MT-specific fields to replace.  In fact, with the HTTP API now available the master server reporting could probably be implemented as a Lua mod.
18:50 STHGOM      the drop bones_mode seems to make armor disappear, can anyone confirm? maybe my armor version is old
18:51 STHGOM      darnit, there are too many minetest channels
21:12 rubenwardy  the new Github header doesn't look right
21:12 rubenwardy  too much contrast
21:13 paramat     sfan5 sofar updated #5199 and now preserves landing sound
21:13 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5199 -- Footsteps: Fix offset footstep and shallow water sound bugs by paramat
21:32 paramat     can anyone else review #4682 ? it's been waiting a long time and this leads to fixing lighting bugs
21:32 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4682 -- Fix water flooding onto lava by juhdanad
21:35 nerzhul     rubuyest it's a little bit ugly
21:42 nerzhul     rubenwardy, *
21:46 paramat     he's the rubyest, he's the ruby warden
21:47 rubenwardy  I'm trying to work out how that typo was even done, but I can't
21:48 rubenwardy  I'm not familiar with that part of the code, so I won't be very useful at spotting errors
21:49 rubenwardy  :/
22:15 celeron55   i think google used that kind of high contrast header some years back
22:15 celeron55   it's weird
22:15 rubenwardy  that didn't look so bar though
22:15 rubenwardy  *bad
22:15 celeron55   it wasn't so tall
22:20 Zeno`       hmm. *shrug*
22:21 Zeno`       The visual scale should be sqrt(2)*blah at least because the plantlike leaves are at a 45 degree angle
22:31 rubenwardy  updated #5176
22:31 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5176 -- Use JSON serialize to store ItemStack Metadata by rubenwardy
22:31 rubenwardy  ShadowNinja, sfan5, nerzhul
22:32 rubenwardy  adds a rather lazy unit test, really could use more cases
23:36 rubenwardy  merging game#1549 in 20 minutes...
23:36 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1549 -- Add sfinv.set_page, plus other helper functions by rubenwardy
23:56 rubenwardy  merging...
23:57 rubenwardy  done