| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:04 |
rubenwardy |
updated #5154 |
| 00:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5154 -- Add ItemStack key-value meta storage by rubenwardy |
| 00:13 |
bkeys |
I compiled minetest from source and am trying out the portable option (and I built the server too). But I get this error |
| 00:13 |
bkeys |
http://paste.fedoraproject.org/545156/48616718/ |
| 00:13 |
rubenwardy |
you need to download minetest game |
| 00:14 |
thePalindrome |
The default game is minetest_game, not minetest |
| 00:14 |
thePalindrome |
That too :P |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
http://github.com/minetest/minetest_game |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
thePalindrome, for some reason gameid = minetest |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
in world.mt |
| 00:14 |
thePalindrome |
huh |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
not sure how it does that |
| 00:16 |
red-001 |
I'm pretty sure changing it is out of the question to change that now |
| 00:16 |
red-001 |
I'm pretty sure changing it is out of the question now* |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
ah |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
find_paths.push_back(GameFindPath(path + DIR_DELIM + id, false)); |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
find_paths.push_back(GameFindPath(path + DIR_DELIM + id + "_game", false)); |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
it looks for "minetest" then for "minetest_game" |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
that's subgame.cpp:84 |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
then in getAvailableGameIds() it removes _game |
| 00:25 |
octacian |
rubenwardy, red-001: why out of the question? Minetest is subject to change, I can't imagine it breaking too many things. |
| 00:25 |
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| 00:26 |
red-001 |
well it can be changed but that will mean more compatibly code |
| 00:26 |
red-001 |
and mt-game was suppose to be separate from mt |
| 00:31 |
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| 01:03 |
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| 01:05 |
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| 01:07 |
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| 01:08 |
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| 01:09 |
baboon2 |
anyone knows where is the cpp code that handles the carts in 0.4.15? |
| 01:09 |
Fixer |
carts are in lua |
| 01:10 |
Fixer |
games\minetest_game\mods\carts\ |
| 01:10 |
baboon2 |
ah ok i thought they were integrated in the core engine as of 0.4.15 |
| 01:20 |
Zeno` |
not in the engine. added to the game |
| 01:20 |
Zeno` |
which is in Lua |
| 01:23 |
baboon2 |
ok thanks |
| 01:26 |
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| 01:32 |
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| 01:36 |
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| 02:23 |
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| 03:03 |
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| 03:45 |
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| 03:48 |
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| 03:51 |
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| 04:00 |
paramat |
#5157 needs review. simple, tested and fixes a crash |
| 04:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5157 -- Objectpos over limit: Avoid error caused by sector over limit by paramat |
| 04:14 |
paramat |
will merge #5167 later, fairly trivial mapgen stuff |
| 04:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5167 -- MapgenBasic node resolver: Various fixes by paramat |
| 04:35 |
paramat |
will also merge #5168 later, again fairly trivial mapgen stuff |
| 04:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5168 -- Mgv6: Add stairs to desert stone dungeons by paramat |
| 04:43 |
paramat |
bbl |
| 04:49 |
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| 05:40 |
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| 05:59 |
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| 06:13 |
paramat |
added 2nd commit to #5168 also trivial |
| 06:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5168 -- Mgv6: Add stairs to desert dungeons. Add fallback node for gravel by paramat |
| 06:15 |
paramat |
will merge that with #5167 in 30mins |
| 06:15 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5167 -- MapgenBasic node resolver: Various fixes by paramat |
| 06:30 |
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| 07:14 |
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| 07:17 |
paramat |
will merge 5167 5168 in a moment |
| 07:17 |
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| 07:23 |
paramat |
now merging to engine |
| 07:29 |
paramat |
done |
| 07:40 |
Zeno` |
k |
| 08:32 |
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| 09:05 |
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| 10:14 |
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| 10:15 |
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| 10:17 |
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| 11:29 |
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| 11:39 |
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| 11:47 |
VanessaE |
so, here's my weekly gripe about the entities-deletes-player, and flat-skin-or-green guy bug |
| 11:47 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23918690/ the former |
| 11:47 |
VanessaE |
(no idea about how the latter looks) |
| 11:50 |
VanessaE |
I'm at about 5 tries now to log into VE-C and not have one of the above happen |
| 11:50 |
sfan5 |
i don't see a check for player objects in the code that does the deleting |
| 11:50 |
sfan5 |
wasn't this already fixed supposedly? |
| 11:50 |
VanessaE |
supposedly. |
| 11:50 |
VanessaE |
but there are apparently at least two sources for the bug. |
| 11:50 |
VanessaE |
because I've long since updated to a point after that fix. |
| 11:55 |
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| 11:55 |
sfan5 |
>if(!force_delete && !obj->isStaticAllowed()) should keep out the players though |
| 12:02 |
sfan5 |
i guess adding a call to the function that prints the debug stacks to PlayerSAO::removingFromEnvironment() might help |
| 12:03 |
nrzkt |
sfan5, also we have a type check just after i added twoweeks ago |
| 12:04 |
sfan5 |
where? |
| 12:05 |
nrzkt |
just after the piece of code you mention |
| 12:06 |
sfan5 |
i see no check for a playersao..? |
| 12:07 |
nrzkt |
oh sfan5 where is the check... |
| 12:08 |
nrzkt |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2ea60156437962d7d29d20606bf5d9189059f76b |
| 12:08 |
Zeno` |
I'm sorry but this is a mess |
| 12:08 |
sfan5 |
oh there |
| 12:08 |
nrzkt |
but |
| 12:08 |
nrzkt |
where is it in master |
| 12:08 |
sfan5 |
nrzkt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/serverenvironment.cpp#L2091 |
| 12:09 |
sfan5 |
however it has zero effects because it's inside the if(obj->isStaticAllowed()) |
| 12:09 |
nrzkt |
seems the fix has disappears |
| 12:09 |
sfan5 |
and isStaticAllowed() is false for players anyway |
| 12:09 |
nrzkt |
disappeared |
| 12:09 |
nrzkt |
look at the diff |
| 12:09 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 12:09 |
nrzkt |
it's before verbosestream |
| 12:09 |
sfan5 |
but a similar check is above |
| 12:10 |
nrzkt |
oh maybe somebody changes this then |
| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
nrzkt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/0eede97af2927dcda3545192403b0a44f30bcd1f |
| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
you did |
| 12:10 |
nrzkt |
oh right, i didn't remember |
| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
and with your commit you made the check useless |
| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
for reasons i explained above |
| 12:11 |
nrzkt |
you are right |
| 12:11 |
nrzkt |
we should restore the previous PR then, right ? |
| 12:12 |
nrzkt |
i missed the static thing |
| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 12:12 |
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| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
are players supposed to be deleted in the force_delete==true case= |
| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
since it only happens at server shutdown |
| 12:12 |
nrzkt |
when server shutdown the deletion is properly done |
| 12:13 |
nrzkt |
the force_delete is not used |
| 12:13 |
sfan5 |
it is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/serverenvironment.cpp#L378 |
| 12:13 |
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| 12:13 |
nrzkt |
hmmm exact |
| 12:14 |
sfan5 |
it seems that it's actually intended that deactivateFarObjects deletes players in that case |
| 12:14 |
nrzkt |
but in fact, the warning pointed at L2091 is shown when we are a player, it's very strange |
| 12:15 |
sfan5 |
:/ |
| 12:16 |
nrzkt |
it's why i did the second pr, very very strange |
| 12:16 |
sfan5 |
maybe the thing returned by getType() is wrong? |
| 12:17 |
sfan5 |
sounds unlikely though |
| 12:18 |
Zeno` |
nrzkt, did you get my email? |
| 12:19 |
nrzkt |
Zeno`, i didn't read them, looking |
| 12:19 |
Zeno` |
no rush. Just making sure you got it |
| 12:20 |
nrzkt |
Zeno`, you like detached inventories right ? :p |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
I'm not sure |
| 12:20 |
nrzkt |
armor and bags use them heavily, and yes it's broadcast to all client and yes it's shit |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
I am not even sure they're the problem anymore |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
anyway, look at the look when you get the time |
| 12:20 |
nrzkt |
i don't know, for the processAOmessage it's due to distance no ? |
| 12:20 |
Zeno` |
look at the log* |
| 12:21 |
Zeno` |
no idea now. I'm too tired after looking at it all day |
| 12:21 |
nrzkt |
no problem |
| 12:21 |
Zeno` |
and yes the mods are updated |
| 12:22 |
Zeno` |
notice the timestamps between my annotations as well ;) |
| 12:22 |
Zeno` |
bbiab |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
nrzkt: having the "forcing delete" message for players is actually impossible |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
it calls obj->getStaticData before |
| 12:28 |
sfan5 |
but PlayerSAO::getStaticData has an unconditional FATAL_ERROR |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:30 |
sfan5 |
nrzkt: anyway, what about this? http://sprunge.us/fCNV?diff |
| 12:32 |
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| 12:35 |
nrzkt |
sfan5, lgtm |
| 12:36 |
sfan5 |
pushed |
| 12:42 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: you might wanna recompile, the bug should not happen again ... in theory |
| 12:46 |
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| 13:06 |
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| 13:10 |
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| 13:11 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: ok |
| 13:16 |
VanessaE |
done. |
| 13:22 |
VanessaE |
seems to work, at least at the first connect anyway |
| 13:28 |
sfan5 |
does it print a warning? |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 13:30 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925208/ |
| 13:30 |
VanessaE |
but I was still "in" so it worked. |
| 13:32 |
sfan5 |
hm then that's just look for now i guess? |
| 13:32 |
sfan5 |
s/look/luck/ wtf |
| 13:32 |
VanessaE |
eh? |
| 13:32 |
VanessaE |
oh maybe |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
I won't know for a while yet |
| 13:34 |
VanessaE |
the other question of course is those entities |
| 13:34 |
VanessaE |
the block limit is 500, and after some extensive testing by tenplus1 and I, we ruled out things like signs_lib or digilines LCD as the cause |
| 13:39 |
VanessaE |
notice how both counts increase over time. |
| 13:40 |
VanessaE |
these are what I call "ghost" entities, because whatever they are, they're invisible and have no definite in-game source. |
| 13:42 |
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| 13:50 |
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| 14:12 |
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| 14:19 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: mind pasting me the raw data of the problematic mapblock as returned by this tool https://gist.github.com/sfan5/52917a0e1338bcda2176edbc416dae60#file-y_leveldb_read-cpp ? |
| 14:19 |
VanessaE |
moment |
| 14:22 |
VanessaE |
just need to figure out how to compile it :) |
| 14:23 |
sfan5 |
g++ leveldb_read.cpp -o leveldb_read -lleveldb -O2 |
| 14:23 |
VanessaE |
had to add -std=c++11 |
| 14:23 |
sfan5 |
oh that's default on arch |
| 14:24 |
VanessaE |
ok, now where did I put that paste... |
| 14:24 |
VanessaE |
there it is. |
| 14:25 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925553/ |
| 14:26 |
VanessaE |
that's about useless :) |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
>need to sign in to download the plain text |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
wtf ubuntu |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
it's just a shitton of hex in one line |
| 14:27 |
sfan5 |
yes that's correct |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
moment |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
I'll put the raw file up for download |
| 14:27 |
sfan5 |
nah already got it |
| 14:27 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 14:28 |
VanessaE |
inb4 "holy shit how does that block even load?" :)_ |
| 14:29 |
sfan5 |
didn't you say it wasn't digilines? |
| 14:30 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: https://0x0.st/WKh.txt |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
that's what tests indicated with worledit. there are some LCD panels and some signs in that block, but tenplus1 and I checked pretty thoroughly that each has precisely one entity |
| 14:30 |
VanessaE |
ok then there are entities there that find_objects_in_radius() can't see |
| 14:30 |
sfan5 |
i don't think this is what "precisely one" looks like :D |
| 14:31 |
VanessaE |
maybe this is a bug in find_objects_in_radius() then? |
| 14:31 |
sfan5 |
possibly |
| 14:31 |
VanessaE |
because when I select a node with a single sign and run it on that node, I get exactly one entity for the sign and a few for the worldedit selection box stuff |
| 14:33 |
sfan5 |
i guess it might be possible that the engine deduplicates the entities on loading them |
| 14:33 |
sfan5 |
and thus never gets to removing all the duplicate ones(?) |
| 14:33 |
VanessaE |
that sounds reasonable |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:40 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: so, that's something to chew on.. need some salt and ketchup for that? :) |
| 14:43 |
sfan5 |
does also only one object appear when you use radius=2 in lua? |
| 14:43 |
VanessaE |
good question. |
| 14:43 |
VanessaE |
let me check |
| 14:51 |
VanessaE |
damn it why can I never remember these commands... |
| 14:52 |
VanessaE |
there we go |
| 14:53 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925699/ |
| 14:53 |
VanessaE |
(with a single sign node selected) |
| 14:53 |
VanessaE |
correction, that's with a single LCD node selected. |
| 14:53 |
sfan5 |
:/ |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
(I chose one that had adequate clearance around it so that no other signs/LCDs would get included in the search) |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
lemme try one at the coords from your paste |
| 14:54 |
sfan5 |
what's your max_objects_per_block? |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
500. |
| 14:55 |
VanessaE |
ok, the LCD indicated by your paste produces this: |
| 14:55 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925715/ |
| 14:55 |
sfan5 |
looks correct |
| 14:55 |
VanessaE |
(there is a sign within the "2" search radius) |
| 14:56 |
sfan5 |
if your max_objects_per_block was 500 then all the objects in the block would have been deleted on load |
| 14:56 |
sfan5 |
the question is why didn't that happen |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
the bigger question is, why doesn't /clearobjects (quick or not) permanently delete them? |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
wait it doesn't |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
wut |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
unless get_objects_with_radius() is broken |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
clearobjects does not use the radius thingy |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
yep I kn ow |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
know* |
| 14:57 |
sfan5 |
it pretty much unconditionally clears all active & static objects |
| 14:58 |
VanessaE |
but if it's deleting the objects like it should, and signs/LCD are re-creating them because that ^^^ API call it broken, the effect is the same, yes? |
| 14:58 |
sfan5 |
i guess |
| 14:59 |
sfan5 |
well then /clearobjects might not be broken |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
right. |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
just kinda brainstorming |
| 15:01 |
sfan5 |
the code prevents storing more than max_objects_per_block in a single MapBlock |
| 15:01 |
sfan5 |
so the check on loading one is kinda redundant |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
and yet, the number of stored objects is somehow exceeding the configured limit |
| 15:03 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925763/ here, you can see where it managed to store one, or at least it incremented the count |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
(I'm not sure why it's talking about another mapblock's coords, unless this other user who is online and actively building, is in that area) |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
(actually, he isn't) |
| 15:06 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23925785/ here's a similar example from the mapblock we were talking about. |
| 15:10 |
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| 15:22 |
sfan5 |
i have no idea how this could happen |
| 15:24 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: s/verbosestream/warningstream/ here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/serverenvironment.cpp#L1857 might help me debug this |
| 15:25 |
VanessaE |
sure. |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
wait actually lemme just prepare a patch with more debugging stuff |
| 15:25 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 15:25 |
* VanessaE |
closes the editor she didn't quite have time to open ;) |
| 15:44 |
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| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: http://sprunge.us/bBiV |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
i think git apply can use that as input |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 15:50 |
VanessaE |
yep, it took it |
| 15:50 |
* VanessaE |
compiles... |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
ok, that's loaded up. |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23926117/ |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
how |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
hm i guess it loaded the blocks but not activated them? |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
oh the numbering :) |
| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
can you place a player at the mapblock (-20,12,44) |
| 15:55 |
VanessaE |
well, no one's signed onto the server yet so I can only assume something force-loaded the block |
| 15:55 |
VanessaE |
sure, moment |
| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
however force-loaded blocks should go through the "activation stage"... probably |
| 15:56 |
VanessaE |
ok, I'm standing at those coords. |
| 15:56 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23926141/ |
| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
I joined near the target, then teleported there |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
well it did what it is supposed to do and deleted all the objects |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
however why didn't it do that before when you tested the get_objects_inside_radius thing? |
| 15:58 |
VanessaE |
beats me |
| 15:58 |
sfan5 |
try teleporting into the (-12,2,-146) block? |
| 15:58 |
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| 15:58 |
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| 15:58 |
VanessaE |
doing that now |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
ok, I'm there. |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
a small building in the area with a few signs inside it. |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
nothing else of note |
| 15:59 |
sfan5 |
anything in the logs? |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
just more of the same "forcing delete" messages |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
lemme wait a minute to see if something else happens there |
| 16:00 |
sfan5 |
are the digiline signs active inside forceloaded blocks perhaps? |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
I'm not sure |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
possibly, I think mesecons uses forceloading |
| 16:00 |
VanessaE |
not sure if digilines does |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
if the forceload code missed the "activation" step that would cause activeobjects not to be added to the global list and the digilines signs to think no entity is there thereby creating a new one |
| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
that sounds reasonable, too |
| 16:03 |
VanessaE |
this showed up shortly after I teleported away, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23926193/ |
| 16:03 |
VanessaE |
(a few more such messages in the log after that, with different ID numbers) |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:07 |
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| 16:12 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: you can de-apply the patch, uncomment https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/de664b1c6d4b2bca47f918a6a865a920434bf664/src/serverenvironment.cpp#L1242 and s/infostream/actionstream/, then restart the server but DONT join with a player |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
sure. |
| 16:16 |
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| 16:17 |
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STHGOM joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
ok, it's up |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23926307/ |
| 16:19 |
sfan5 |
several questions arise |
| 16:19 |
sfan5 |
also my theory from above is incorrect |
| 16:20 |
sfan5 |
well not necessarily |
| 16:21 |
sfan5 |
why is it trying to store stuff in block (-20,12,44) when it's not even active and miles away from the others? |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 16:24 |
sfan5 |
the only possibility i see is objects with incorrect coords being stored in some blocks |
| 16:34 |
VanessaE |
if you have the storage and bandwidth to spare, you can download the raw map for local experiments |
| 16:35 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
http://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worlds/Creative_World.tar.gz (3GB download, expands to around 3x that size) |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
meanwhile, gotta run. back later. |
| 16:38 |
rubenwardy |
updated #5154 |
| 16:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5154 -- Add ItemStack key-value meta storage by rubenwardy |
| 16:57 |
sfan5 |
VanessaE: your backup doesn't work |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
2017-02-04 17:57:23: ERROR[Main]: src/main.cpp:ef: int main(int, char **): A fatal error occured: LevelDB error: IO error: Creative_World/map.db/MANIFEST-3489868: No such file or directory |
| 17:38 |
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| 17:45 |
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| 17:58 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: shit. |
| 17:58 |
VanessaE |
could I just send you the missing manifest file? |
| 17:58 |
sfan5 |
dunno |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
you could test my code on your db though |
| 17:59 |
VanessaE |
hm, nope. the filename is already different |
| 17:59 |
VanessaE |
sure |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
https://kitsunemimi.pw/i/d918c5bb66f54d8f.txt |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
oh my ssl cert |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
well just use a http link for now |
| 18:01 |
VanessaE |
ok and what am I applying this on top of? |
| 18:01 |
sfan5 |
master |
| 18:02 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
hm. that's odd, in my compress-worlds script, the whole map.db is grabbed in one go. that file shouldn't be missing. |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
ok that patch is in place. |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
so far, I just see a bunch of "trying to store", starting at id=1 with 664 objects in the block |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
that would mean this isn't the problem |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
then i'm out of ideas |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
tho keep the patch applied, maybe it comes up with something sometime |
| 18:08 |
sapier |
#5068 any comments? this allows updating animation framerate without resetting animation to start |
| 18:08 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5068 -- Fix animation frame_speed and blend loosing precision due to incorrec… by sapier |
| 18:09 |
VanessaE |
:( |
| 18:09 |
sapier |
and fixes some loss of precision due to incorrect datatypes |
| 18:10 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: what precipitates the name of that manifest file? I looked at the backup that was generated on Monday (which is where the downloadable file comes from), and it has a manifest, with a different ID number |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
dunno |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE |
and the server instance is always offline when the backup is made |
| 18:11 |
sapier |
and #5073 please too it's a major improvement for 3d modes ... yes I know those aren't used by a lot of ppl atm |
| 18:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5073 -- Stereo: replace toe-in by off-axis method (rebased #3620) by sapier |
| 18:24 |
* VanessaE |
rebuilds the downloadable backups with --hard-dereference added. |
| 18:28 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: re-download the backup and try again. it compresses and uncompresses cleanly now. |
| 18:28 |
VanessaE |
(idk if the backup "works" but there were no errors) |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:30 |
VanessaE |
meanwhile, that patch has not produced any result yet. |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:35 |
sapier |
hmmm vanessae seems to be more carefull then the gitlab guys :-) good |
| 18:36 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 18:36 |
VanessaE |
wisenheimer :) |
| 18:36 |
sapier |
those guys did have multiple levels of backups but when they needed it last weekend none did work flawless |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
talking about "hmmm" ... well not exactly, but using the name ;-) did anyone see him lately? |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
I heard he left. |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
sad to hear |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
but better leave then ... |
| 18:49 |
VanessaE |
I'm not entirely sure why he left |
| 18:50 |
rubenwardy |
probably burnout, tbh |
| 18:50 |
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| 18:51 |
sapier |
that's not good hope he get's better soon |
| 18:51 |
VanessaE |
:-/ |
| 19:12 |
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| 19:16 |
sapier |
hmm does anyone know where github stores it's data? maybe we should have look for european solutions ... unless we wanna pay taxes :-/ |
| 19:17 |
juhdanad |
What is the problem with Github? |
| 19:17 |
Krock |
lolwhat? is trumpy going to stand on the internet cables? |
| 19:18 |
sapier |
welll problem ain't github but americans going crazy ;-) |
| 19:18 |
sapier |
ok in fact only some americans, sadly the most powerfull one too |
| 19:23 |
sapier |
crazy world the bad-country of 20th century seems to become the good-country of begining 21st ... |
| 19:25 |
sapier |
but back to minetest what about #5068? ;-) |
| 19:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5068 -- Fix animation frame_speed and blend loosing precision due to incorrec… by sapier |
| 19:28 |
Calinou |
sapier: I don't think GitLab is hosted in the EU either |
| 19:28 |
Calinou |
and switching away from GitHub would result in an obvious loss of popularity |
| 19:28 |
sapier |
that's the bad thing about it almost everything is from us |
| 19:29 |
sapier |
well Calinou I was more talking about preparing a plan "b" just in case |
| 19:38 |
nerzhul |
sapier, github is geolocalized but it's an american company like gitlab |
| 19:39 |
sapier |
well the gitlab guys have some backup issues ;-) yet that'd be irrelevant anyway if they're a american company too |
| 19:39 |
nerzhul |
sapier, is there any news on crazy trump is missed, triggering some fear from you ? |
| 19:40 |
nerzhul |
sapier, yeah, it affect only the database, and i think now they know they should do better? I'm very surprised they only have 2 db |
| 19:40 |
sapier |
not exactly trump more the court decision claiming any american company having to provide any data stored anywhere in world |
| 19:40 |
nerzhul |
but it was already the case before trump |
| 19:40 |
sapier |
which is exactly different to court decision of last week where microsoft didn't have to doo that |
| 19:41 |
sapier |
well I didn't limit my concerns to the primary bad guy ;-) |
| 19:42 |
sapier |
but yes there's no reason for immediate actions by now as I said ... just thinking about options in case we need it |
| 19:43 |
rubenwardy |
may be worth saving all the PRs and issues |
| 19:43 |
est31 |
gitlab is fucking slow |
| 19:43 |
est31 |
but i dont really care |
| 19:44 |
sapier |
est31 if they have only one db we now now why too ;-) |
| 19:44 |
sapier |
now know |
| 19:44 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy, gitlab can import all github pr and issues :p |
| 19:44 |
rubenwardy |
they also like deleting them randomly :D |
| 19:44 |
nerzhul |
gitlab CI is very very nice, we can publish easily snapshot builds :p and use docker for builing our apps |
| 19:44 |
est31 |
either way, I think github will move countries before trump will hurt them |
| 19:44 |
est31 |
also, they are a company,trump never hurts companies |
| 19:45 |
nerzhul |
est31, i don't think it's possible, they are using AWS, and what about Amazon itself, Azure and Google Cloud ? They are american, they own the server who contains everybody on public cloud datas |
| 19:45 |
sapier |
est31 depends on court decisions if the new style of deciding from fbi vs google will become official way of interpretation that wouldn't help |
| 19:45 |
est31 |
what is the actual threat you want to protect from? |
| 19:46 |
sapier |
I don't believe github will switch their company heat out of america |
| 19:46 |
sapier |
company head ... grr |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
trump finding out that you develop a block game` |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
? |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
nothing scary about that |
| 19:46 |
nerzhul |
it's not simple to change your company head location, having many fake societies is easy |
| 19:47 |
sapier |
est31 well to be honest I don't believe there's any way to really protect yourself from american agencys you just can make it a little bit difficult |
| 19:48 |
est31 |
*shrug* |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
you will probably lose many contributors |
| 19:49 |
sapier |
est31 as mentioned for the time beeing just a plan "b" |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
you know whats american too? |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
biggest nuke arsenal in the world |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
trump has direct access to it |
| 19:50 |
juhdanad |
I don't understand... Why is Github bad suddenly? |
| 19:50 |
sapier |
true ... and most powerfull military forces |
| 19:50 |
est31 |
and he has the temper of a little child. single judge makes him go crazy |
| 19:50 |
nerzhul |
i don't know juhdanad , but github is and was always bad, because one enterprise has all major repositories, like sourceforge at a moment |
| 19:50 |
sapier |
juhdanad: it's not about github |
| 19:51 |
est31 |
well idk, I think trump is powerful, but he doesnt seem to want to interfere with github |
| 19:53 |
sapier |
est31 for sure he will interfere directly but transforming most powerfull democracy in world to some sort of tyranny most likely will have sideeffects to any american company |
| 19:54 |
nerzhul |
sapier, yeah, i think he is a purely nationalist, like Marine Le Pen in france, but there are some rules if he doesn't want to trigger WW3 |
| 19:54 |
est31 |
idk, if usa becomes a tyranny I feel we have bigger problems than the repo for some open source game |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
ya thunk? |
| 19:55 |
est31 |
also, what nerzhul says |
| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
sapier |
nerzhul: I don't think he does care about triggering ww3 or not that's why I believe him to be dangerous |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
hmm #politics |
| 19:55 |
est31 |
maybe move to #minetest-project ? |
| 19:55 |
sapier |
yes sofar is right :-) not correct channel |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
=) |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
remember google code? :trollface: |
| 19:56 |
nerzhul |
in France there are elections this year, and... big political parties are just dangerous, because they are against people |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
now imagine this to github |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
elections this year in germany too |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
or imgur |
| 19:56 |
sapier |
:-) what about #5068 (every good thing is three) |
| 19:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5068 -- Fix animation frame_speed and blend loosing precision due to incorrec… by sapier |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
i need to stop using imgur for sure |
| 19:56 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, google code was down because of GH. GH doesn't have a challenger atm |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
let's discuss the flowerpot and frame mods I made - should I submit them to minetest_game? |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
anyone? |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
:) |
| 19:56 |
red-001 |
why would you have to pay tax?? |
| 19:57 |
sapier |
est31 true but for the moment risk germany falls to any radical party is minor (yet bigger then anytime before since ww2) |
| 19:57 |
sapier |
flowerpot and frame? |
| 19:58 |
sofar |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16574 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16585 |
| 20:01 |
Fixer |
juhdanad: github is not bad in itself, it is just huge size of it, lots of project rely on it, now imagine closing of it... that will be a lot of headache for everybody |
| 20:02 |
sapier |
sofar: not sure about the frame mod but flowerpot seems nice to me |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
agreed - it's pretty |
| 20:07 |
sofar |
why not the frame? awww! |
| 20:08 |
red-001 |
what is the general option on security for client-sided scripting? |
| 20:09 |
nerzhul |
which option ? |
| 20:09 |
red-001 |
it seems that lua hasn't had any major bugs that would allow a sandbox escape as long as there is no bytecode loading, but it's still possible for it to take up all the system memory |
| 20:09 |
red-001 |
ehh I meant opinion |
| 20:10 |
red-001 |
not sure how I managed to misspell it so badly |
| 20:12 |
rubenwardy |
It should be very high priority, imo |
| 20:19 |
red-001 |
are most people ok with a malicious server being able to crash or lag the client as long as it can't destroy the system/install malware |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
that's fine |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
using too many system resources isn't |
| 20:19 |
red-001 |
or is a separate process with limitations on memory usage/cpu ussage needed |
| 20:20 |
sfan5 |
that's way too much work |
| 20:20 |
sfan5 |
as you need to somehow pass messages between then |
| 20:20 |
sfan5 |
them* |
| 20:20 |
red-001 |
I agree |
| 20:21 |
red-001 |
well it might be possible to make attacks like that harder |
| 20:21 |
red-001 |
by limiting the input to certain apis |
| 20:21 |
rubenwardy |
having a separate process would also allow you to benefit from not having client scripting block rendering |
| 20:21 |
rubenwardy |
but it is a lot of work |
| 20:22 |
sfan5 |
that sounds like it would go into the "stupid limitations" territory way too fast |
| 20:22 |
rubenwardy |
true |
| 20:24 |
red-001 |
true |
| 20:25 |
nerzhul |
make it working with good security, sufficient security for first released, and improve it after if needed |
| 20:25 |
rubenwardy |
ideally we'd also start a bounty scheme for this. But - money |
| 20:27 |
nerzhul |
before talking about making money, just finish the dev on the branch and merge it. |
| 20:30 |
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| 20:33 |
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xunto joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:47 |
est31 |
limiting CPU or memory is very very hard |
| 20:48 |
est31 |
better not attempt it |
| 20:48 |
est31 |
everything else should be limited |
| 20:48 |
sapier |
let os do cpu and memory things that's what it's purpose is |
| 20:49 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 20:50 |
sfan5 |
est31: it's not hard, use the apis provided by the os |
| 20:51 |
est31 |
you can do cpu limiting using cgroups I think |
| 20:51 |
est31 |
but these things would best benefit from a separate process ... |
| 20:51 |
sfan5 |
you don't need cgroups |
| 20:51 |
est31 |
also, would be hard to port it to all OSs minetest supports |
| 20:52 |
est31 |
sfan5: ? |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
https://linux.die.net/man/2/setrlimit |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
RLIMIT_CPU / RLIMIT_RSS |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
s/_RSS/_DATA/ |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
interesting |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
didn't know |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
good catch |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
still, it would benefit from a separate process |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
bc then only the script process crashes |
| 20:53 |
sfan5 |
it only really works in a seperate process |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
est31 nope using os specifics will just cause trouble |
| 20:54 |
sfan5 |
sapier: you're forced to use os specifics for things like this |
| 20:54 |
est31 |
^ i guess there is no way around this |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
I wouln't do things like that for a game |
| 20:54 |
red-001 |
^ |
| 20:54 |
red-001 |
I think the game crashing if the scripting crashes is a good thing anyway |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
any reasonable os will provide ways to kill a programm running havoc |
| 20:55 |
est31 |
it still gets played |
| 20:55 |
est31 |
and most times on the same endpoints the people use for online banking |
| 20:55 |
red-001 |
lets the mod authors know the messed up badly |
| 20:55 |
est31 |
I want to be safe to play minetest on my computer |
| 20:55 |
est31 |
and not fear that someone gets hold of my github account and can push shit to minetest repo |
| 20:55 |
red-001 |
lua is quite safe as it has an internal vm |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
est31 then don't hide the problems but make program abort |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
red-001: no |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
lua's vm contributes nothing to security |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
usually adding workarounds just takes pressure from ppl to do things right |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
it's just there because they use bytecode |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
and cpu/memory limits are a workaround |
| 20:56 |
sfan5 |
it takes pressure from people? wut |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
if your client side mod gets killed because of cpu usage |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
sapier: what would be the way to do it right |
| 20:57 |
red-001 |
sfan5, so you would prefer to execute untrusted assembly? |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
you can't just say "i dont care" |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
red-001: that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying that luas vm is not designed as a security measure |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
e.g. if game still runs but runns slow someone will have a fast cpu and tell "works for me" . |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
I dont think luajit has ever been audited security wise |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
I bet its full of holes |
| 20:57 |
sfan5 |
that problem is impossible to eliminate |
| 20:58 |
sapier |
sfan5: it's gonna get killed anyway |
| 20:58 |
sapier |
if you limit cpu usage to 50% you'll just make it more difficult to decide what's reason |
| 20:58 |
sapier |
100% cpu usage is obvious |
| 20:58 |
sfan5 |
i agree that cpu / memory limiting are not perfect solutions |
| 20:59 |
sfan5 |
and it would be best if we are not forced to add them |
| 20:59 |
est31 |
I too think they are not important |
| 20:59 |
est31 |
what is important that nobody can execute code as the user who plays the game |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
I'm completely against adding it because it's stuff a game is NOT supposed to do that's cpu stuff |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
os stuff |
| 20:59 |
est31 |
either way, gotta go |
| 20:59 |
est31 |
bye |
| 21:00 |
red-001 |
I don't think a major bug in lua jit is more likely the a similar one in minetest |
| 21:00 |
sfan5 |
a buffer overflow in luajit would be way easier to exploit than on in minetest |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
I agree to est31 stop malicious code is most important |
| 21:01 |
red-001 |
so maybe use normal Lua? |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
and malicious code usually tries to hide and not cause 100% cpu or memory usage |
| 21:02 |
sfan5 |
cpu or mem limits are not supposed to stop malicious code |
| 21:02 |
red-001 |
lua should have a lot more testing done on it |
| 21:02 |
sfan5 |
they are supposed to stop code that uses way too many resources |
| 21:02 |
sfan5 |
which player won't want |
| 21:02 |
sfan5 |
(for something as unimportant as clientside mods) |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
sfan5: yes but player already has wayst to prevent this ... better ways then everything we can do in minetest |
| 21:03 |
sfan5 |
and those are? |
| 21:03 |
red-001 |
limit the amount of memory minetest can use? |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
so while I agree this is a interesting task and I understand why you're curious to try it ... I believe it's nothing for minetest |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
i don't want to try it, it's hard and adds lots of additional complexity |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
sfan5: 1) taskmanager/ shell (kill) 2) remove the broken mod |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
simple and easy |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
client-side scripting uses mods sent by the server |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
then even more easy |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
kill and don't connect to server once again |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
server admin will realize noone connecting |
| 21:05 |
sfan5 |
you expect the kids to understand that? |
| 21:06 |
red-001 |
yeah |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
sfan5: I expect ppl to understand "if I connect to that server minetest will hang" yes |
| 21:06 |
red-001 |
if they are running a server then yes |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
we're talking client-side here |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
if they don't understand this they probably will have issues understand why moving that device next to the keyboard will cause cursor to move too |
| 21:07 |
sfan5 |
I wouldn't be so sure of that |
| 21:07 |
red-001 |
really servers can already make the game unplayable |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
sfan5: maybe but we can't solve all worlds issues |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
and reliably limiting cpu usage for all os in all versions is a task we just can't handle |
| 21:07 |
red-001 |
e.g by sending so many textures it takes about 10 hours to connect to spawning particles or entities all over the place |
| 21:08 |
sfan5 |
sapier: that's correct, but in theory it can be done for linux -> android which is a major platform |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
especially as most os require root/admin privileges to set cpu limits which reduce security instead of increase it |
| 21:09 |
sfan5 |
linux doesn't |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
sfan5 maybe but linux does require root privileges to change to roundrobin scheduler thus you'd still be in same thread after cpu limit hit |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
so you'll never have a chance to detect the cpu limit hit from within this proces ---> still hanging |
| 21:10 |
sfan5 |
why do you need to change the scheduler to use setrlimit() ? |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
you don't but the limit wont help if you intend to preserve minetests responsiveness |
| 21:11 |
sfan5 |
well if you don't put the lua stuff into a seperate process you won't be able to limit it appropriately |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
yes then you need ipc ... adding all that stuff just to prevent lua mods from doing same as textures? |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
I don't see the actual benefit |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
especially as you're talking about linux users which usually will understand reason <-> cause relationship |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
you are correct it's way to much work to have a benefit |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
however android is also linux |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
true but there android already does way more limiting stuff |
| 21:20 |
red-001 |
^ |
| 21:21 |
red-001 |
it takes quite a bit of work to downright crash android itself |
| 21:21 |
red-001 |
and not just make the app close |
| 21:22 |
red-001 |
plus I doubt android give enough access to apps to do something like that |
| 21:53 |
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| 22:09 |
rubenwardy |
merging #5154 in 20 minutes |
| 22:09 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5154 -- Add ItemStack key-value meta storage and per-stack descriptions by rubenwardy |
| 22:10 |
juhdanad |
You can see a bug report on #minetest. |
| 22:10 |
juhdanad |
By Spidergirl321 |
| 22:10 |
rubenwardy |
debug_log_level? Yeah, that should crash more gracefully |
| 22:10 |
rubenwardy |
well, it shouldn't crash at all |
| 22:21 |
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| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
merging #5154... |
| 22:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5154 -- Add ItemStack key-value meta storage and per-stack descriptions by rubenwardy |
| 22:39 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: I really don't like that serialization method something standard like JSON would be much better. |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
preparing PR... |
| 22:44 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: Great :-) It would be great if you got proper typing to work too so you're not just storing everything as strings. |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
separate issue though - node meta has always been untyped |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
*atyped |
| 22:46 |
Fixer |
/clearobjects uses only one core? |
| 23:03 |
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| 23:04 |
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| 23:06 |
rubenwardy |
what should I use as a value to indicate the meta is of the new format? |
| 23:07 |
rubenwardy |
the problem with always attempting to JSON parse and doing backwards compatibility on fail is that strings in the old format may already be in JSON |
| 23:15 |
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| 23:19 |
rubenwardy |
ShadowNinja: #5176 |
| 23:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5176 -- Use JSON serialize to store ItemStack Metadata by rubenwardy |
| 23:19 |
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| 23:21 |
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| 23:21 |
sofar |
Fixer: yes, that's entirely single threaded anyway |
| 23:23 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: I'd remove the start character completely and just unconditionally set the "" field to the original string. |
| 23:25 |
ShadowNinja |
Just try the serialization and skip it if it fails (and maybe print something to warningstream or infostream). |
| 23:25 |
rubenwardy |
if there's no "" in the table though |
| 23:25 |
ShadowNinja |
Yeah, you can check that first. |
| 23:25 |
sfan5 |
using an empty key sounds like a bad idea |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: "How to properly detect old serialization (rather than #)" |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: did you mean "before this PR" or using get_metadata() ? |
| 23:26 |
sfan5 |
(for a modder not for this compat scheme) |
| 23:26 |
rubenwardy |
metadata() |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
come to think of it, I'd ignore it either way |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
mods can safely convert |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
if you convert the data you will actually break mods, too |
| 23:28 |
sofar |
if you leave it as is, nothing breaks (just uses the old method) |
| 23:28 |
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| 23:30 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: also, there's a space missing after the error message you added. |
| 23:30 |
ShadowNinja |
(before the JSON root) |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
thanks |
| 23:31 |
sfan5 |
"Malformed ItemMeta!" is a quite bad error msg |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
it's temporary |
| 23:31 |
sfan5 |
and i agree with the just unconditionally set the "" field to the original string. thing |
| 23:31 |
sfan5 |
the error msg should be "ItemStackMetadata::deSerialize(): Data looked like a JSON string but failed to decode, ignoring!" |
| 23:33 |
rubenwardy |
what if a mod isn't updated, and still uses get_metadata()? Eg: set_metadata("foobar") get_meta():set_string("foo", "bar") gives you {"":"foobar","foo":"bar"} which will be the output of get_metadata after load |
| 23:35 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: Don't write that field when serializing. |
| 23:35 |
rubenwardy |
so set_metadata() will be lost then? |
| 23:36 |
ShadowNinja |
Or rather, if that field exists, write it out, and if it doesn't then serialization an object. |
| 23:37 |
ShadowNinja |
Using both APIs can be left as undefined behavior or something, as long as there's a defined way to update to a JSON system. |
| 23:48 |
rubenwardy |
updated: #5176 |
| 23:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5176 -- Use JSON serialize to store ItemStack Metadata by rubenwardy |
| 23:57 |
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